M-14- The Most Iconic Rifle In History

[MistWolf]

A history of the development and adoption of the most iconic rifle in history- the beloved M-14


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sQmZY0qCRCs&feature=youtu.be

[Redhat]

I like the rifle but most "iconic"?

[TGS]

This is taking April 1st too far.


I like the rifle but most "iconic"?

You're supposed to watch linked videos or read the referenced material in threads prior to commenting.

[Redhat]

This is taking April 1st too far.



You're supposed to watch linked videos or read the referenced material in threads prior to commenting.

Ha Ha...duly noted!

[randyho]

Hannibal Smith and Face approve.

[Joe in PNG]

Deleted

[Paul D]

I have a M1 Garrand and I know the M-14 has a lot of fleas but I kinda want one for some reason.

[okie john]

The voiceover is riddled with utterly brilliant errors that will fuck up gun-counter conversations for decades.


Okie John

[Darth_Uno]

Wow, it's like they took the collective consciousness of every Old Guy At The Range and condensed it into one video.

[Darth_Uno]

In all seriousness I love the M1A. But I like the idea better than the reality, which is why I've owned and sold two.

[ccmdfd]

Loved the Dr. Strangelove clip.

cc

[RevolverRob]

I enjoyed the video.

In all seriousness from me - I've always felt like the M-14 was the most ironic military rifle in history. Ironic, that 99% of the people who hype up the rifle have never shot nor carried one. You can always tell who has never shot an M1A/M14, because they always think the 16" SOCOM on the wall in the gunshop is "da best rifle in here". Never mind that gun has been "returned" three times and it still comes with 5 rounds of ammo left in the original 20-round box...Past owners could not be reached for comments, because they can't hear their phones ring anymore.

[Joe in PNG]

It's iconic- as a symbol of how a bloated, entrenched bureaucracy of old time thinkers can stretch and twist a couple of fairly simple ideas (put a box mag on a M-1, shorten the op system, and make it shoot a shorter cartridge) into a long and expensive process that only really accomplished the first two parts.

[Darth_Uno]

I enjoyed the video.

In all seriousness from me - I've always felt like the M-14 was the most ironic military rifle in history. Ironic, that 99% of the people who hype up the rifle have never shot nor carried one. You can always tell who has never shot an M1A/M14, because they always think the 16" SOCOM on the wall in the gunshop is "da best rifle in here". Never mind that gun has been "returned" three times and it still comes with 5 rounds of ammo left in the original 20-round box...Past owners could not be reached for comments, because they can't hear their phones ring anymore.

For me, the issue is that there's no good way to mount an optic. At least not in any way that an AR variant can't do 10x better. MIA's have 'Murica written all over them, but there's better options to get a 7.62x51 from point A to point B.

[Borderland]

Wow, it's like they took the collective consciousness of every Old Guy At The Range and condensed it into one video.

Especially old Marines. :D God bless those old guys.

Now if you like the M1A/M-14, just buy a Ruger Mini. Same gas piston system and receiver in a 5.56 carbine. Mine runs great.

[okie john]

I shot them a lot growing up as the son of a soldier on the Oklahoma National Guard rifle team. I love the way they look but that’s about where it ends.


Okie John

[UNK]

Never carried one but got to shoot the match grade version out of Quantico. I loved it.

[MistWolf]

Especially old Marines. :D God bless those old guys.

Now if you like the M1A/M-14, just buy a Ruger Mini. Same gas piston system and receiver in a 5.56 carbine. Mine runs great.

The Mini is more M1 Carbine than M14.

I love my M14 (which I got from my father) and I'll never get rid of it. I grew up with Garands, M1 Carbines, M-14s, surplus 1911s, Enfields, Springfields, SMLEs, Mausers and other old military weapons. I came late to the AR family of weapons, my first being a 20" Colt Competition HBar. I love my AR, but it doesn't have the same nostalgia

[ranger]

We had M14s (demilled) for ceremony use in JROTC in late 1970s. When I went to Ranger school in 1981 - M14s were used to simulate a squad automatic weapon (M249 SAW not issued yet). In my first and only "volunteer" mistake - I raised my hand when a Ranger Instructor innocently asked if any of the Ranger students knew how to clean a M14. So, I turned in my lightweight M16A1 and carried a long, heavy, awkward M14 with equally heavy magazines and heavy 7.62 blanks through the Mountain phase of Ranger school. I hated carrying the M14, mags, and ammo. Only positive was a M14 with blank adapter shoots a jet of fire. Once while clearing an objective, an OPFOR Soldier refused to come out from under an obstacle so he could be processed - being short tempered, hungry, sleepy, etc. - I used a jet of M14 blank fire on auto to encourage compliance. I got a butt chewing from a laughing RI. I was very happy to turn in the M14 and retrieve my M16A1 at end of Mountain phase. Since that experience, I am not a fan of M14s or any "full size 7.62 battle rifle". Whenever I hear someone waxing about the wonderfulness of the M14, etc. - I immediately ask if they ever actually carried one or used one - truck to rifle range does not count.

[RevolverRob]

For me, the issue is that there's no good way to mount an optic. At least not in any way that an AR variant can't do 10x better. MIA's have 'Murica written all over them, but there's better options to get a 7.62x51 from point A to point B.

I think it’s not only the mounting that’s a pain for to me, it’s that you really need to scope it. A 16” M1A is about as useful as tits on a mule, so is a red dot on an M1A. Then I’m over here carrying a 10-pound gun that is either sub-optimal for urban stuff or sub-optimal for long range. A LPVO makes a lot of sense on an M1A, an ELCAN would too...except you know then it’s a 12-pound rifle. ;)

I definitely think there was a time that the M1A/M14 had great value as an moderate range, light armor piercing weapon that had more firepower over a bolt gun. Certainly, we saw in the early days of the GWOT they offered advantages over 5.56 weapons. But these days the AR10 has advanced far enough to clearly be the better and more versatile platform.

I’d still love to have an EBR-clone. But honestly, I figured if I built one today, I’d use the 6.5CM M1A instead, because it’s pretty obvious now that 6.5CM is a superior cartridge.

I still love me some old school battle rifles though. In the book series I am writing about a French Foreign Legion paratrooper, he gets all retarded old school and uses a French MAS M49-56 MSE, basically the French version of M14 designated marksman rifles. And because fictional characters have infinite stamina and a book weighs less than a wood stocked moron rifle, it also has an ELCAN on top. Because anachronisms rule.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x8Nj3VAhNhM

[okie john]

I got a butt chewing from a laughing RI.

Those are the best kind.

I may have gotten a Major Minus spot report in Phase II of the Special Forces Qualification Course for (allegedly) stealing something and a Major Plus spot report for initiative because I solved a problem in an unexpected manner. I had to put the item back from whence it came without getting caught, which I did. Because I was successful, and to reduce paperwork, nobody ever wrote either spot report and nothing appeared on my record.

Allegedly.


Okie John

[MickAK]

There are weapons, pistol grip pump shotguns, certain revolvers, the M-14, etc., that will continue to be reincarnated forever because they Just. Look. Cool. :cool:

[okie john]

There are weapons, pistol grip pump shotguns, certain revolvers, the M-14, etc., that will continue to be reincarnated forever because they Just. Look. Cool. :cool:

This.

Always and forever, this.


Okie John

[Paul D]

There are weapons, pistol grip pump shotguns, certain revolvers, the M-14, etc., that will continue to be reincarnated forever because they Just. Look. Cool. :cool:

I always wanted a pistol grip pump gun because of this movie (Rutger Hauer was so cool, RIP).

51115

[Totem Polar]

That film clip had more easter eggs than the white house lawn. Brilliant.

[Stephanie B]

I like the rifle but most "iconic"?

The M-14 is but one example of Army Ordnance screwing the pooch in designing a rifle.

[Borderland]

The Mini is more M1 Carbine than M14.

I love my M14 (which I got from my father) and I'll never get rid of it. I grew up with Garands, M1 Carbines, M-14s, surplus 1911s, Enfields, Springfields, SMLEs, Mausers and other old military weapons. I came late to the AR family of weapons, my first being a 20" Colt Competition HBar. I love my AR, but it doesn't have the same nostalgia

In size but not design. The gas block on a mini 14 and an M14 is a separate unit from the barrel. The gas block on a an M1 carbine isn't nor is it adjustable like a mini. M1 carbine head spaces on the case mouth, mini 14 and M-14 head spaces on the shoulder, so bottle neck v straight wall. I have both mini and M1. I rebuilt the M1 top to bottom and replaced the gas port bushing on my mini. That's where the Mini-14 got it's name. It's a miniature M-14 without auto.

[LittleLebowski]

I don't think I have the patience to watch this.

[okie john]

I don't think I have the patience to watch this.

It's actually hilarious, and it's definitely a very well-researched joke.

You owe it to yourself.


Okie John

[Dave J]

In 2007, I was involved in spending a lot of taxpayer money trying to upgrade a couple hundred M14’s into decent SDM/DMR guns. It didn’t work out very well, and I apologize to everyone here for wasting your money.

IMHO, the M14 was an obsolete POS when it was fielded, and there’s nothing that can be done to salvage it. I do find them interesting from a historical standpoint and am not opposed to shooting them for fun, but the fact that they’re still in service is an more of an indictment of our procurement bureaucracy than anything else.

[Shoresy]

It's actually hilarious, and it's definitely a very well-researched joke.

You owe it to yourself.


Okie John

It is that; I still only made it to the 2-minute mark.

[MistWolf]

I don't think I have the patience to watch this.

It's an April's Fool Day video. It starts off with small inaccuracies and builds toward every increasing outrageous claims until it's just over the top. It's done well and sucks you in if you don't know what's going on beforehand. When I first watched it, I was taken in until I realized what was going on

[5pins]

I didn't realize it was a joke and wasn't going to bother watching. Pretty funny.

[Joe in PNG]

In 2007, I was involved in spending a lot of taxpayer money trying to upgrade a couple hundred M14’s into decent SDM/DMR guns. It didn’t work out very well, and I apologize to everyone here for wasting your money.

IMHO, the M14 was an obsolete POS when it was fielded, and there’s nothing that can be done to salvage it. I do find them interesting from a historical standpoint and am not opposed to shooting them for fun, but the fact that they’re still in service is an more of an indictment of our procurement bureaucracy than anything else.

What's the Old Army version of a Fudd?

[MistWolf]

What's the Old Army version of a Fudd?
They call him "Sarge"

[VT1032]

They should do the 1911 next...


(Runs and hides...)

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[TQP]

As an added bonus, Youtube suggested Paul Harrell's home defense gun video. Starting with the S&W M29. I didn't last much farther.

[Borderland]

They should do the 1911 next...


(Runs and hides...)

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Actually those are very popular, even the USGI surplus. If you called it iconic that would be an honest description.

[RevolverRob]

In 2007, I was involved in spending a lot of taxpayer money trying to upgrade a couple hundred M14’s into decent SDM/DMR guns. It didn’t work out very well, and I apologize to everyone here for wasting your money.

IMHO, the M14 was an obsolete POS when it was fielded, and there’s nothing that can be done to salvage it. I do find them interesting from a historical standpoint and am not opposed to shooting them for fun, but the fact that they’re still in service is an more of an indictment of our procurement bureaucracy than anything else.

You say "spending a lot of taxpayer money", I say, if it wasn't $50-million you're okay.

[Dave J]

They call him "Sarge"

Or "General," in my experience.

[Dave J]

You say "spending a lot of taxpayer money", I say, if it wasn't $50-million you're okay.

Fortunately, my mistakes awere confined to one brigade of the 101st, so it was more like $350K, most of which would have gone to Sage, Smith Enterprises, Sadlak, Leupold, and Trijicon.

Not really a big deal in the grand scheme of government waste, but I really should have known better.

Hopefully some of the optics eventually found their way onto something useful.

[Suvorov]

Fortunately, my mistakes awere confined to one brigade of the 101st, so it was more like $350K, most of which would have gone to Sage, Smith Enterprises, Sadlak, Leupold, and Trijicon.

Not really a big deal in the grand scheme of government waste, but I really should have known better.

Hopefully some of the optics eventually found their way onto something useful.

Hell, your spending was about a minute of spending those guys in other branches spend on toilet seats and at least you were able to field equipment that was serviceable if not optimal!

I am curious - what you found were the things that prevented the M14 of being a good DMR? Was it the general accuracy, difficulty in mounting optics, ruggedness, reliability, weight?

[Coyote41]

I am curious - what you found were the things that prevented the M14 of being a good DMR? Was it the general accuracy, difficulty in mounting optics, ruggedness, reliability, weight?

Yes.


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[Suvorov]

Whenever I hear someone waxing about the wonderfulness of the M14, etc. - I immediately ask if they ever actually carried one or used one - truck to rifle range does not count.

I've never had to carry one very far - then again I chose a branch where my weapon carried me ;)

I'm not going to lie here - I like girls with a little junk in the trunk and I LIKE THE M14!

Growing up I really really wanted one and my first expensive rifle I ever purchased was an M1A. I don't have the experience with it that many here do, but I've been shooting them long enough and have chased the rabbit of trying to make it a suitable DMR type rifle enough to know it's limitations. I never was issued one but I did have a chance to spend some time with Army M21s and NM rifles while in the National Guard.

My general feel for the M14 is that it is a rifle that suffers from too much talk. When I was just getting seriously into guns and the M16A2 was the new kid on the block the M14 was some sort of legend capable of extreme accuracy and amazing stopping power. Like the Jedi who were killed to make way for the Empire, the M14 was a noble and accurate commie killer that was sacrificed at the alter of "modern warfare" fought by armchair Generals who had stock in Mattel.

That went to the M14 is the biggest POS that has ever been created and the M1 is a 10X better rifle that it will ever be. Just saying you like the M14 will give you a "taint" among the cool kids of the internet and label you as a boomer that watches Paul Harrell videos.

The truth is always in the middle. I think many of the shortcomings that people site are valid, but I also scratch my head when they don't seem to think they are shortcomings on the M14's contemporaries. The M14 is heavy - but it is lighter than the FAL and G3. The M14 is not a good platform for optics - neither is the FAL and while the G3 can be made into a DMR it is a pretty expensive, heavy, and convoluted proposition. The 7.62 NATO is too much round for general rifle issue - yep same round as the FAL and G3 use. The M14 is uncontrollable on full Auto - yep but it's not like the other contemporaries are that much more and the military realized that issued the E2 for use as a SAW and the extra weight of the FAL and G3 may account for the M14 being less controllable in FA.

Really what I find likable about the rifle (other than it being a pleasant rifle to shoot and very elegant) is the fact that it represents the end of an era in rifles. From a gun geek point of view it is like being able to pet a dinosaur. Had it come out in the 1940s it would have been groundbreaking but it came out after that giant meteor had already hit off the Yucatan.



Especially old Marines. :D God bless those old guys.

Now if you like the M1A/M-14, just buy a Ruger Mini. Same gas piston system and receiver in a 5.56 carbine. Mine runs great.

As MistWolf has already mentioned - the Mini14 is really just a upgunned M1 Carbine gas system in a small sized M14 form factor, bolt, and trigger group.

But I like them too......

[Dave J]

I am curious - what you found were the things that prevented the M14 of being a good DMR? Was it the general accuracy, difficulty in mounting optics, ruggedness, reliability, weight?

Pretty much all of that! :)
Excessive weight and poor ergonomics were a big part of it, and the Sage stock doesn't help with that. I don't think the optic mounting was optimum in terms of eye relief and cheek weld for most users. Accuracy wasn't great even after removing the wood stocks. The only thing it would do better than an M4 with Mk-262 was get through car windshields, but that's not a big concern when vehicle-mounted M2's and M240's are nearby, as was usually the case in places where cars were likely to go. If a dismounted squad took one along, it became a liability to the operator in a CQB situation, so the M14's stayed in the arms room most of the time.

One causative factor in all of this is that our predeployment funds would only be turned on only a month or two prior to deployment, so there wasn't time to order up samples and test different configurations before making purchasing decisions. We had to go "all in" and hope that we chose correctly.