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View Full Version : Rear Naked Choke: A video on some fallacies



Cecil Burch
04-01-2020, 12:59 PM
With the Covid stuff going on I can't train at my jiujitsu academy the normal 4-5 times a week. That sucks. The positive is that it gives me some free time that I normally don't have so I am doing some videos that I have been wanting to do for a while.

One of them is this one where I cover some fallacies about defending against the rear naked choke that comes from self-defense folks who don't really have a background in grappling. There are some things they tend to not understand and that leads them to talk about techniques that at are best, sub-optimal. Hopefully this vid helps to give people some good critical eyes the next time they encounter such advice.


*****

If you were just learning to drive, and you wanted advice, would you turn to someone who has never driven a car before? Would you ask their opinion of driving in rush hour traffic, or on a high speed freeway if they have spent their entire life living in a small rural area where everyone walked or rode horses to get around? The answer is of course not. If they have never been in that position, what could they say that would help? Anything they say would be based on speculation, or a vague hope that things would work a certain way.

It is a goofy question, but it is pertinent, because this is all too often how we ask advice or seek knowledge when it comes to self-defense matters. If someone has never used, handled, or carried a gun – for example, if they lived in a country like Australia or Japan where gun ownership is tightly controlled, and a thing like concealed carry for a private citizen is completely unheard of, and they have never been in the military or law enforcement, what could they possibly say about firearms use? It certainly could not be based on logic or familiarity. At best, it would be a “best guess”. That is not the most intelligent way to base a technique or strategy to survive a violent criminal assault.

Similarly, a great deal of self-defense “experts” will pontificate about how to deal with grappling attacks, but they themselves have little to zero actual grappling experience! How can they believe that they have a reasonable approach if they have never done it, and if they have never truly pressure tested it? The answer is they shouldn’t believe, and moreover, they should not talk about it. If they were honorable, they would direct people to look at those who have real experience in grappling to seek answers in how to deal with such a scenario.

In the following video, I try to show how in just one single instance – in this case a rear naked choke – how the typical non-grappler advice in how to counter this technique is based on massive logical flaws. Hopefully, it will help guide people to see with better eyes and deeper critical thinking the next time they run across a non-grappler talk about “counter grappling”.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb-akBygrGg&t=146s


http://www.iacombatives.com/2020/03/31/video-anti-grappling-fallacies/

UNM1136
04-03-2020, 02:24 PM
Excellent video, Cecil. Reinforces a lot of IAJJ and ECQC...sending links to friends.

pat

Cecil Burch
04-03-2020, 05:31 PM
Excellent video, Cecil. Reinforces a lot of IAJJ and ECQC...sending links to friends.

pat


Thanks!

GAP
04-03-2020, 06:43 PM
Excellent video, once again! I concur with your explanation of that “oh shit” moment before they go to sleep. Of all the MMA fights and BJJ tournaments I’ve competed in, the quickest guy to go to sleep was a wrestler who thought “that jiu-jitsu shit don’t work.” Guy ended up trying to grapple me in that weird, I’m trying to big brother you in front of friends sort of way. He ended up in a triangle choke, completely unconscious in that sub-5 second time period you mentioned. I’m convinced it made him less of an asshole and changed his life.

Sal Picante
04-07-2020, 09:02 PM
What's a tube tv?

:rolleyes:

Cecil Burch
04-08-2020, 11:31 AM
What's a tube tv?

:rolleyes:


Frickin' millennial

Warped Mindless
04-08-2020, 01:54 PM
With the Covid stuff going on I can't train at my jiujitsu academy the normal 4-5 times a week. That sucks. The positive is that it gives me some free time that I normally don't have so I am doing some videos that I have been wanting to do for a while.

One of them is this one where I cover some fallacies about defending against the rear naked choke that comes from self-defense folks who don't really have a background in grappling. There are some things they tend to not understand and that leads them to talk about techniques that at are best, sub-optimal. Hopefully this vid helps to give people some good critical eyes the next time they encounter such advice.


*****

If you were just learning to drive, and you wanted advice, would you turn to someone who has never driven a car before? Would you ask their opinion of driving in rush hour traffic, or on a high speed freeway if they have spent their entire life living in a small rural area where everyone walked or rode horses to get around? The answer is of course not. If they have never been in that position, what could they say that would help? Anything they say would be based on speculation, or a vague hope that things would work a certain way.

It is a goofy question, but it is pertinent, because this is all too often how we ask advice or seek knowledge when it comes to self-defense matters. If someone has never used, handled, or carried a gun – for example, if they lived in a country like Australia or Japan where gun ownership is tightly controlled, and a thing like concealed carry for a private citizen is completely unheard of, and they have never been in the military or law enforcement, what could they possibly say about firearms use? It certainly could not be based on logic or familiarity. At best, it would be a “best guess”. That is not the most intelligent way to base a technique or strategy to survive a violent criminal assault.

Similarly, a great deal of self-defense “experts” will pontificate about how to deal with grappling attacks, but they themselves have little to zero actual grappling experience! How can they believe that they have a reasonable approach if they have never done it, and if they have never truly pressure tested it? The answer is they shouldn’t believe, and moreover, they should not talk about it. If they were honorable, they would direct people to look at those who have real experience in grappling to seek answers in how to deal with such a scenario.

In the following video, I try to show how in just one single instance – in this case a rear naked choke – how the typical non-grappler advice in how to counter this technique is based on massive logical flaws. Hopefully, it will help guide people to see with better eyes and deeper critical thinking the next time they run across a non-grappler talk about “counter grappling”.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb-akBygrGg&t=146s


http://www.iacombatives.com/2020/03/31/video-anti-grappling-fallacies/

Did you make this video in response to that Dom Rasso video where he uses his knife to defend a RNC by cutting the guys arm with a knife?

That made me laugh too.

On a FB group I am a member of I pointed out how his technique wouldn't work against ant partially trained guy on the ground. Every response essentailly amounted to:

"BuT hE iS fOrMeR dEvGrU... hE KnOwS mOrE tHaN yOu!!!"

Yean well so is Clint Emerson and yet he posted a (now deleted) serious video on IG and YT a few weeks ago telling people to use tampons to treat gun shot wounds. He caught a lot of crap for it from actual medical professionals.

These guys should prob just stick to firearms training and let guys like you teach the hand to hand stuff.

Cecil Burch
04-08-2020, 03:16 PM
Did you make this video in response to that Dom Rasso video where he uses his knife to defend a RNC by cutting the guys arm with a knife?




Not just that one, though it was the straw that broke the back.

The problem was that a lot of people have seen it, and he does have a legit war fighting background, so it feeds into the idea that he knows all things combative. So it got me off my butt, but he is sadly not alone in his idea of how to deal with any grappling action.

His is even more ridiculous because he shows his counter while the other guy already has the choke sunk in. That's like showing your new parachute release cord while you have plummeted 2,000 feet and only go to pull it when you are 10 feet off the deck.

I have another one I will post soon where I show the same problems with non-grapplers countering an armbar from the top.

EPF
04-08-2020, 03:35 PM
The problem was that a lot of people have seen it, and he does a legit war fighting background, so it feeds into the idea that he knows all things combative.

.

Thanks for the cool video! Very informative. I hope to attend another one of your classes again soon and see the changes and updates from years ago.

For anyone who hasn’t seen it, Andy Stumph has been interesting to listen to about his new BJJ journey. A very honest assessment about the free plates of humble pie from a guy with a similar background to Rasso.

Sal Picante
04-08-2020, 09:15 PM
Frickin' millennial

Your September FL class should be fun for me...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB-bJWsIG_o

runcible
04-09-2020, 11:39 AM
I don't have a particularly deep background in all of these things, but I'd like to think that I've been exposed to a tremendous number of things that just don't plain work as advertised outside of the venue in which they are demonstrated - if even there. Chokes have always seemed the great equalizer, and was the first "move" that really started sucking me in to the greater expanse.

I appreciate you taking the time to video and present this, Cecil!

LOL @ the second vid posted, as relates to what happens when people try some goofball stuff to "beat the choke." Like the last guy who tried to break my pinkie during friendly sparring because I got a rear naked...

Cory
04-14-2020, 07:08 AM
Your September FL class should be fun for me...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB-bJWsIG_o

I had emailed Cecil about that. Forgot to follow up though. Hopefully I can make that work. I think it'd be a great starting point for regular BJJ classes.

-Cory

Sal Picante
04-14-2020, 09:19 PM
I had emailed Cecil about that. Forgot to follow up though. Hopefully I can make that work. I think it'd be a great starting point for regular BJJ classes.

-Cory

Let's do it!