Any credible testing of .357 mag from a carbine?

[4given]

As anybody seen any credible gel testing of .357 mag ammo from a carbine?

I'm thinking of using Hornady Custom 158 gr in my Marlin .357 18 1/2" carbine for defensive purposes. If this a decent load I can easily reload and duplicate it for practice and what not.

I looked around but didn't see much on the subject online.

[okie john]

Interesting trends at http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

A good rule of thumb for pistol cartridges is to expect a ~300 fps when going from a long-barreled revolver to 20" carbine.


Okie John

[4given]

Interesting trends at http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

A good rule of thumb for pistol cartridges is to expect a ~300 fps when going from a long-barreled revolver to 20" carbine.


Okie John

The Hornady Custom 158gr loading lists 1250 FPS on the box label. I don't have any idea the length of the test barrel. According to the chart below 1400 FPS is the top end of the bullets design envelope,


51021

[03RN]

The Chopping Block

He's on youtube.

My own playing around has found factory remington 125gr sjhp to vaporize in milk jugs. Would be great for yotes on down.

My handloaded 140gr XTPs hold together in water

[Lester Polfus]

The Chopping Block is about it. He does use ordnance gel but you can certainly argue the tests don't use a significant sample size since he typically only fires a couple rounds.

FWIW, I roll with the Federal/American Eagle 158 JSP in both my 4" GP100 and my 1894c. The GP100 is a woodsbumming gun, so deep is good. I do keep a stash of 125 Gold Sabres and some .38+P Gold Dots on hand in case I need to roll with it in an urban/suburban setting.

[OlongJohnson]

The Hornady Custom 158gr loading lists 1250 FPS on the box label. I don't have any idea the length of the test barrel. According to the chart below 1400 FPS is the top end of the bullets design envelope,


51021

The 158 FP is a better choice for magnum loads in a long barrel. Or the 180 HP, which isn't on that chart.

[the Schwartz]

The Chopping Block is about it. He does use ordnance gel but you can certainly argue the tests don't use a significant sample size since he typically only fires a couple rounds.

Has TCB returned to using 10% ordnance gelatin again?

For awhile there, he was using the clear polymer gel junk (even after he did not one—but two—videos discrediting it as a valid terminal ballistic test medium) so I just ''tuned-out'' from his work.

[WDR]

I think the 158gr XTP would probably hold up "okay" from a carbine... you might get a bit of over expansion, but I bet it would retain enough weight and penetration to still be suitable for two legged and lighter four legged creatures. The XTP is a pretty "tough" bullet.

The flat point 158 XTP would probably be a better choice for the carbine if you want to max out penetration. May not be ideal in a handgun, depending on what velocity you drive them at.

[Dov]

The 158 Gold Dot has been mentioned favorably on several hunting forums & by some hunting focus writers out of rifle/carbine length barrels.

The 158 XTP usually seem to get good reports to for hunting.

Brian Pearce has written at least a few articles about hunting with 357 long guns in "Rifle" & "Handloader".

The 125 JHP tends to function like a varmint bullet, based on reports on rabbits and coyotes I suspect its similar to 223/5.56 with ~55 JHP/Ballistic tip type bullets.

Many people also seem to like Hardcast 158 to 180 grain bullets for hunting.

[03RN]

Has TCB returned to using 10% ordnance gelatin again?

For awhile there, he was using the clear polymer gel junk (even after he did not one—but two—videos discrediting it as a valid terminal ballistic test medium) so I just ''tuned-out'' from his work.

All his new ones use clear.

[diananike]

The Hornady Leverevolution ammunition has a 140gr FTX bullet that’s designed for use in a rifle. Lucky gunner gel tested in their article on M1 carbine ballistics.
Or just pick up a cheap American Eagle 158gr JSP they have been a staple of deer hunters for years and the gel tests I’ve seen for them are favorable.
Neither the lever FTX or the JSP will expand well in a revolver. The idea of shooting the same ammo in your rifle and sidearm just doesn’t really pan out with a .357

[03RN]

The Hornady Leverevolution ammunition has a 140gr FTX bullet that’s designed for use in a rifle. Lucky gunner gel tested in their article on M1 carbine ballistics.
Or just pick up a cheap American Eagle 158gr JSP they have been a staple of deer hunters for years and the gel tests I’ve seen for them are favorable.
Neither the lever FTX or the JSP will expand well in a revolver. The idea of shooting the same ammo in your rifle and sidearm just doesn’t really pan out with a .357

Except for the 140gr xtp, or swc

[Totem Polar]

As a .357 lever fan, I went down the rabbit hole sometime back and came to the conclusion that 158 JSP punched well above its weight class out of 18-20" barrels. It's eyebrow-raising how much difference a rifle makes.

[swampyank33]

Except for the 140gr xtp, or swcWhat's been your experience with SWC feeding in your levers?

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Lester Polfus]

The 158 Grain American Eagle JSP load expands reasonably well out of a 4" tube in gel.

My recent production Marlin 1894c will eat Missouri Bullets 158 grain LSWC all day long.

[03RN]

What's been your experience with SWC feeding in your levers?

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Ive used rimrock and Missouri swc and swc-wn in my .357 m92 and lasercaat and rimrock in my .45 colt m92 with no issues.

[the Schwartz]

All his new ones use clear.

Thanks, 03.

Well, damn.

While I realize that most of the amateur testing available on the 'net rarely conforms to perfect laboratory standards, at least having it done with 10% ordnance gel eliminated a confounding factor (the use of an invalid test medium)...that was why, if I was going view any YouBoob content, I preferred/deferred to watching TCB's videos as well as ShootingTheBull410's.

[03RN]

He at least acknowledges the difference and keeps his older ones on his channel

[4given]

Well based on every ones response I canceled my order for 158gr XTP reloading bullets! LOL

I have 500 158gr SWC Hard cast & coated bullets I can play with for now. Work up a nice load that will work for both. Looks like I will have to think about what I want to do for a commercially loaded defense round. Maybe the AE JHPs will shoot close to the same POA/POI

[4given]

The Chopping Block is about it. He does use ordnance gel but you can certainly argue the tests don't use a significant sample size since he typically only fires a couple rounds.

FWIW, I roll with the Federal/American Eagle 158 JSP in both my 4" GP100 and my 1894c. The GP100 is a woodsbumming gun, so deep is good. I do keep a stash of 125 Gold Sabres and some .38+P Gold Dots on hand in case I need to roll with it in an urban/suburban setting.

I think I am going to try the AE 158 JSP. I should be able to load up some SWC 158's that will work fine for practice, woods use and STF. My M66 is currently sighted in for, and kept loaded with .38 Gold Dot 135gr +P. When not on my hip, it serves as one of the "Upstairs" pistols.

[4given]

Chopping Block's 10% ordinance gel test of the AE 158gr SPJ out of an 18 1/2" Marlin Carbine looks pretty darn good!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dMXKHUxjgQ

[Lester Polfus]

I think I am going to try the AE 158 JSP. I should be able to load up some SWC 158's that will work fine for practice, woods use and STF. My M66 is currently sighted in for, and kept loaded with .38 Gold Dot 135gr +P. When not on my hip, it serves as one of the "Upstairs" pistols.

LOL. It's like we're twins or something.

I'm using the AE 158 JSP, and 158 SWC for practice. My GP100 is the "upstairs pistol" and when in the house is also loaded with .38 Gold Dot 135gr +P. I usually put the AE load in it when we go out in the woods.

[4given]

LOL. It's like we're twins or something.

I'm using the AE 158 JSP, and 158 SWC for practice. My GP100 is the "upstairs pistol" and when in the house is also loaded with .38 Gold Dot 135gr +P. I usually put the AE load in it when we go out in the woods.


Not to mention we are both Longmire fans! So looking around the web I don't find anyone that has the AE's in stock. I even tried a search on ammoseek and turned up zilch. Not surprised really. I don't really need them right now anyway. The good old cast SWC has worked well for many years!

[Lester Polfus]

Not to mention we are both Longmire fans! So looking around the web I don't find anyone that has the AE's in stock. I even tried a search on ammoseek and turned up zilch. Not surprised really. I don't really need them right now anyway. The good old cast SWC has worked well for many years!

I like the cut of your jib sir....

Yes. I have many hundreds of the 158 LSWC round loaded up. They are cheap. I think they wind up costing me .12 a round or so , not counting the case.

I figure the JSP load might be optimal, but the 158 LSWC load is certainly viable for deer and a-holes.

The Remington 180 grain JHP load also seems to have good results from both rifles and handguns, but I just looked on AmmoSeek and can't find any of that either.

The Barnes 140 grain all copper bullet also works good from both platforms. It's loaded by Barnes, Federal and Remington, but guess what, that's out of stock too.

[4given]

I like the cut of your jib sir....

Yes. I have many hundreds of the 158 LSWC round loaded up. They are cheap. I think they wind up costing me .12 a round or so , not counting the case.

I figure the JSP load might be optimal, but the 158 LSWC load is certainly viable for deer and a-holes.

The Remington 180 grain JHP load also seems to have good results from both rifles and handguns, but I just looked on AmmoSeek and can't find any of that either.

The Barnes 140 grain all copper bullet also works good from both platforms. It's loaded by Barnes, Federal and Remington, but guess what, that's out of stock too.

The feeling is mutual!

Anyway, I think I will hold out for the AE's. I have a "notify when in stock" in at Sportsmans Warehouse. I can get them shipped to the store for free. There is one 5 minutes from my house.

I purchased 500 158gr SWC Hi-Tech coated from a Vendor Sponsor over on Cast Boolits forum. I used to cast my own but I just don't have the time anymore. Got rid of all my casting gear. Anyway if these turn out just "meh" results I'll try the Missouri Bullet Co bullets you are using. Your pushing them at an estimated 1600 fps with no leading an I right?

[Lester Polfus]

The feeling is mutual!

Anyway, I think I will hold out for the AE's. I have a "notify when in stock" in at Sportsmans Warehouse. I can get them shipped to the store for free. There is one 5 minutes from my house.

I purchased 500 158gr SWC Hi-Tech coated from a Vendor Sponsor over on Cast Boolits forum. I used to cast my own but I just don't have the time anymore. Got rid of all my casting gear. Anyway if these turn out just "meh" results I'll try the Missouri Bullet Co bullets you are using. Your pushing them at an estimated 1600 fps with no leading an I right?

Yessir. I think my velocity estimate is inline with what other folks have gotten with that recipe. I actually just cleaned the 1894c two nights ago, and had zero lead in the bore. What's interesting is that the Blue Dot load that was so dirty in my revolver is much cleaner in my 18.5" barrel, so it must be burning more efficiently.

My Marlin will eat those bullets as long as I keep the OAL at 1.590" or less. If I let it start creeping up, I'll get some clunky feeding.

[4given]

Yessir. I think my velocity estimate is inline with what other folks have gotten with that recipe. I actually just cleaned the 1894c two nights ago, and had zero lead in the bore. What's interesting is that the Blue Dot load that was so dirty in my revolver is much cleaner in my 18.5" barrel, so it must be burning more efficiently.

My Marlin will eat those bullets as long as I keep the OAL at 1.590" or less. If I let it start creeping up, I'll get some clunky feeding.

Good to know. I hope the story is the same with my bullets. Cleaner burn sounds reasonable with the long barrel.

I loaded some test rounds with Universal and seated the bullet to An OAL of 1.60. That's just about as far as I could go before the crimping groove had completely disappeared beneath the case mouth. My new Starline brass should be in tomorrow so I will load some with 240. I'll try various weights around the 14gr neighborhood and see if it likes any of those. I mounted a Nikon 4.5X14 scope on it yesterday for load testing. Should be interesting! I wonder if I can get a 1" group at 100yards? Might be pie in the sky with this type of rifle but you never know!

[Lester Polfus]

Good to know. I hope the story is the same with my bullets. Cleaner burn sounds reasonable with the long barrel.

I loaded some test rounds with Universal and seated the bullet to An OAL of 1.60. That's just about as far as I could go before the crimping groove had completely disappeared beneath the case mouth. My new Starline brass should be in tomorrow so I will load some with 240. I'll try various weights around the 14gr neighborhood and see if it likes any of those. I mounted a Nikon 4.5X14 scope on it yesterday for load testing. Should be interesting! I wonder if I can get a 1" group at 100yards? Might be pie in the sky with this type of rifle but you never know!

I have a red dot on mine, and have shot some 50 yard groups in the 1.5" range, but to be honest I've not done any real disciplined position shooting, nor any accuracy load development for mine. I know it will never be as accurate as my .308 bolt gun, but I'm not sure at all what the limits are.

The groups I've had with the JSP service ammo, and the LSWC practice/backup ammo have all been "good enough." Hell you can't see much farther than 50 yards on my property anyway.

[4given]

I mounted a Nikon 4.5X14 scope on it yesterday for load testing. Should be interesting! I wonder if I can get a 1" group at 100yards? Might be pie in the sky with this type of rifle but you never know!

All dressed up and ready for some bench testing!

51213

[diananike]

I never had much luck with any of the cast bullets I tried with my 1894. Mine is the 1894c 18.5" made around 2004 (pre Remington)
My rifle always shot jacketed bullets quite well. My go to load was a 158gr HP-XTP, I switched to the FP-XTP after seeing the chopping blocks test where the HP one exploded and underpenetrated. I load this heavy with Lil'gun.

To try and find some cheaper loads I started experimenting.
I tried a bunch of different kinds of cast and plated with quite a few different powders.
One issue with the plated bullets was the lack of cannelure to crimp into. Even with a heavy roll crimp that was clearly cutting the plating I experienced bullet set back once the tube started getting fullish.
I finally came up with a plated 158gr SWC load that came with a cannelure so I heavy roll crimped. It grouped around 2" at 50yds with Skinner peep sights and I though that was as good as it gets with the cheap stuff. I could also fully load the magazine tube without setback.
I was never able to find a cast or swaged bullet that shot well.

Personally I think a relatively soft cast SWC driven at rifle like velocities so it deforms could be appropriate for self defense or deer hunting. At pistol velocities the bullet wont deform and will penetrate massively unnecessary amounts. I just dont buy the sharp edge cutting of the SWC shoulders as making much of a difference to wounding. I dont think a .357 LSWC fired at handgun velocities would be that effective.

The only animals I've shot with this rifle are Beavers in the spring that I harvested for Municipal bounty. It has claimed quite a few. Generally with my plated 158gr LSWC load at moderate (1250fps) velocities. The performance was about what youd expect shooting them with a .38. Nothing like hitting an animal with a fast hollowpoint.

[4given]

I never had much luck with any of the cast bullets I tried with my 1894. Mine is the 1894c 18.5" made around 2004 (pre Remington)
I was never able to find a cast or swaged bullet that shot well.

Personally I think a relatively soft cast S

Did you try a cast bullet sized .359? I hear some Marlins like fat boolits.

[diananike]

Did you try a cast bullet sized .359? I hear some Marlins like fat boolits.

No the cast and swaged bullets were all .358 if I remember correctly.
I’d like to try some coated bullets at .359
I do have a Lee mould that I think will be at .359 after coating
If those don’t work then I’ll just stick with the one brand of plated that I hit on that worked.
Most of the reloading project for that rifle was done almost a decade ago.
There sure have been a lot of other wild projects in between!

[Dov]

I like the cut of your jib sir....

Yes. I have many hundreds of the 158 LSWC round loaded up. They are cheap. I think they wind up costing me .12 a round or so , not counting the case.

I figure the JSP load might be optimal, but the 158 LSWC load is certainly viable for deer and a-holes.

The Remington 180 grain JHP load also seems to have good results from both rifles and handguns, but I just looked on AmmoSeek and can't find any of that either.

The Barnes 140 grain all copper bullet also works good from both platforms. It's loaded by Barnes, Federal and Remington, but guess what, that's out of stock too.

Yeah the 140 X bullet is another good choice from everything I've seen reported, I've actually got couple boxes to try in my guns.

[the Schwartz]

Chopping Block's 10% ordinance gel test of the AE 158gr SPJ out of an 18 1/2" Marlin Carbine looks pretty darn good!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dMXKHUxjgQ

Sure does.

I wish that he'd go back to the 10% ordnance gel as that'd really set his work off from the others.

[03RN]

Tried the 130gr jsp over 9gr unique in water jugs today. Went through 5, punched through the 6th on the edge but didn't penatrate and disappeared.:(

[4given]

Tried the 130gr jsp over 9gr unique in water jugs today. Went through 5, punched through the 6th on the edge but didn't penatrate and disappeared.:(

Bummer. Would have been nice to see the recovered projectile.

[03RN]

Bummer. Would have been nice to see the recovered projectile.

Precision delta sells these as loaded .38 sp. Not sure why lol. Im not sure theyre expanding much at 1500fps.

I might have to find some 2400

I only got them because they were the cheapest jacketed bullets i could find. I had no expectations of expansion. I would have been fine with fmj.

[ECVMatt]

I have taken a couple of hogs with the .357 158 XTP and was really impressed. Both shots were about 50 yards and the wounds were significant, deep, and almost instantly fatal. Both hogs were in the 150-200 lbs range and shot through the lungs. I really like the .357 in rifles and have three .357 rifles right now. I have a Marlin 1894 CP, Ruger M77/357 and a H&R Handi-Rifle Trapper. They are all accurate at reasonable ranges and are disproportionally powerful. The rifles are trim and handy in the field and ammo is light and compact for carry. They are a very nice, "on the down low", package.

[4given]

I have taken a couple of hogs with the .357 158 XTP and was really impressed. Both shots were about 50 yards and the wounds were significant, deep, and almost instantly fatal. Both hogs were in the 150-200 lbs range and shot through the lungs. I really like the .357 in rifles and have three .357 rifles right now. I have a Marlin 1894 CP, Ruger M77/357 and a H&R Handi-Rifle Trapper. They are all accurate at reasonable ranges and are disproportionally powerful. The rifles are trim and handy in the field and ammo is light and compact for carry. They are a very nice, "on the down low", package.

Thanks for the info! Handloads with the 158gr FP/XTP and the 140gr XTP have been "one ragged hole" accurate at 50 yards for me in my Marlin 1984CS. Are you using the FP/XTP or the regular one? Factory load or handload? If handloaded what velocity?


https://i.imgur.com/dF6NurE.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/rKmHQnt.jpg?1

The picture below is a 140gr XTP

https://i.imgur.com/kD0iROV.jpg

[4given]

I have taken a couple of hogs with the .357 158 XTP and was really impressed. Both shots were about 50 yards and the wounds were significant, deep, and almost instantly fatal. Both hogs were in the 150-200 lbs range and shot through the lungs. I really like the .357 in rifles and have three .357 rifles right now. I have a Marlin 1894 CP, Ruger M77/357 and a H&R Handi-Rifle Trapper. They are all accurate at reasonable ranges and are disproportionally powerful. The rifles are trim and handy in the field and ammo is light and compact for carry. They are a very nice, "on the down low", package.

Thanks for the info! Handloads with the 158gr FP/XTP and the 140gr XTP have been "one ragged hole" accurate at 50 yards for me in my Marlin 1984CS. Are you using the FP/XTP or the regular one? Factory load or handload? If handloaded what velocity?


https://i.imgur.com/dF6NurE.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/rKmHQnt.jpg?1

The picture below is a 140gr XTP

https://i.imgur.com/3dW0v57.jpg

[Crazy Dane]

Dragging this one back from the dead now that I have a .357 carbine.

I have been reading up on rifle loads across the internet.

I already have a box or 4 of 158 XTP FPs I bought by mistake.

I have 296 and 2400 for powder but I keep reading how good Lil Gun is in a rifle. The only listing I can find is in the Complete Reloading Manual, 16.0 -18.0 for the XTP, and I see many loads put out that is well above max. I'm not looking for crazy fast, just enough to get reliable expansion with the XTP-FP on whitetail at 100 yards or so.


I have shot a bunch of my 158 SWC loads using 2400, 1625fps, and HS7, 1511fps. I may have those velocities swapped, I didn't put which load was which into the Garmin app.

I may explore the 180 XTP in the future and I may just ask the ammo fairy for a case of Federal AE 158 SJSPs.

[diananike]

The FP-XTP is a dandy rifle bullet.
Kentucky Range Time on YouTube has a great test in different barrel lengths and it can handle up to around 2000fps without fragmenting unduly, and down to around 1200fps and still expand.
I recommend his video if your using that bullet.
I’d say based on his testing I’d be comfortable using it around 1700fps if you weren’t planning on shooting it much past 750yds or so, which can be done easily with 296/H110.
I load it hotter with lil gun though, up to 2000fps to get a bit more range and expansion threshold.

[Borderland]

The FP-XTP is a dandy rifle bullet.
Kentucky Range Time on YouTube has a great test in different barrel lengths and it can handle up to around 2000fps without fragmenting unduly, and down to around 1200fps and still expand.
I recommend his video if your using that bullet.
I’d say based on his testing I’d be comfortable using it around 1700fps if you weren’t planning on shooting it much past 750yds or so, which can be done easily with 296/H110.
I load it hotter with lil gun though, up to 2000fps to get a bit more range and expansion threshold.

750 yards? That's one smokin hot load. ;)

The general rule of thumb for 357 rifle loads is add 300 fps to the published revolver load data. Hornady manual has load data for rifle also. 1500 fps will get you all the expansion you need with XTP bullets. That's close to a max load for most of the powders listed.

I did a lot of experimenting with XTP in a bolt rifle using 2400. They start to loose accuracy near the top velocity loads. No reason to go there IMO. Remember now, it's a revolver cartridge.

[WDR]

That data seems suspect to me (most book loads top out under 15gr of 2400 with a 158).

I've been loading 13.5gr of 2400 under 158gr XTP's of both flavors (JHP and FP) for a while now, and they shoot decently in my 16" Stainless Marlin. Even at 100 yards, using a 4 MOA red dot, I can hold about a 3-4" group. And they smack steel out to 150-200 decently enough. I'm unsure of velocity, but I'd guess 1500fps +/-... I need to either buy a Garmin, or dig out my old Chrony one of these days. You should be able to push the FP a bit faster and still not have it frag as much as the JHP, but I suspect a deer wouldn't know the difference. The rounded nose of the FP bullets seems to feed and load a little nicer in the levergun vs JHP for me.

I plan, at some point this summer, to shoot both bullets into water from the levergun, my 5.5" Blackhawk Flattop, and maybe my 3" Model 60, in the name of redneck science.

My understanding is the Federal 158 JSP load works well on deer sized game, and IIRC its going about 1650-1700 from a carbine. I suspect the PMC version would work just as well, and I've found it for significantly cheaper than the Federal. The PMC bullets have a slightly more rounded "soft point" which may help feeding vs the Federal (I've had zero issues with either load). I'll probably try to shoot some of each of these loads through the carbine too, when I do the water testing.

[diananike]

750 yards? That's one smokin hot load. ;)

The general rule of thumb for 357 rifle loads is add 300 fps to the published revolver load data. Hornady manual has load data for rifle also. 1500 fps will get you all the expansion you need with XTP bullets. That's close to a max load for most of the powders listed.

I did a lot of experimenting with XTP in a bolt rifle using 2400. They start to loose accuracy near the top velocity loads. No reason to go there IMO. Remember now, it's a revolver cartridge.

Oops added a 0
I meant 75yds

[4given]

It’s been awhile since I started this thread. FWIW, I am still using the H-110 and 158 gr HTP/FP for a field load, H-110 and the 158 gr Zero JSP for plinking and the Federal American Eagle 158gr JSP for SD. The H-110 burns clean and is giving me accurate loads at top velocities. Couldn’t ask for more. YMMV

[Rock185]

I've had a .44 carbine for years, but didn't have a .357 carbine till a year or so ago. I don't pretend to be a guru about pistol caliber carbines in general, but now I have a couple .357 carbines. I've not shot enough .357 to load it in ages. So I bought Federal 158 JSP to use in the .357 carbines. I knew velocities would be higher than in a revolver, so it seemed that a heavy, non hollow point bullet might be appropriate for general use. I haven't done any gel tests or shot any animals, but from some of the reports posted here, it appears the 158 JSP may have been a good choice after all.

I had a couple different lots of the Federal ammunition and tested in different guns, so chronographed velocities varied. The Federal 158 JSP averaged approx. 1250 fps in a 4" revolvers, and between about 1650 and 1750 FPS in the 16.5" and 17.4" carbines. This is pretty consistent with the velocity difference when I tested .44 Mag. in a 4" revolver and a 16.5" carbine.

[Malamute]

Andrew did some various tests with the Fed and Remington 158 gr loads in pistol and carbine some years ago. I believe the velocity gain was closer to 500 fps. The 357-lite-mag-reduced recoil-whatever loads may only gain 300 fps, but full power magnums I believe typically gain close to 500 fps from pistol to rifle.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dMXKHUxjgQ


750 yrds isnt entirely out of the question if one is having some fun. These folks are fun to watch, they shoot all sorts of things at longer range. Hes shooting a 357 carbine at 1000 yards, offhand, and making hits.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk3pzxE9IFk