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Shokr21
05-16-2012, 10:46 AM
I dove headfirst into the competition scene earlier this year, never having shot on a timer save for Army quals. I started shooting steel challenge, and still do, but shoot a weekly USPSA local match.

I shoot production with a gen 4 g17 SAD prefix serial number, 30274 ejector, the only aftermarket parts are ameriglo defoor sights.

I use a hideous holster stealth for now, but have a couple other OWB holsters enroute (all designed for concealment). Belt is a volund gearworks atlas and I use kytex gear mag pouches.

I'm not classified yet, but referencing my two classifier scores I should fall into the middle of C class.

My problem, or rather stumbling blocks start when the timer goes off. Last night I had a plan on the first stage of being as fast as accurately possible. It was a simple walkdown stage where no more than 4 targets were visible at any stationary point. My plan was to smoothly move down the firing lane and engage as I saw targets. I did just fine on movement, I could have been a little faster, but not much. My big problem was throwing an extra shot at a target that already had 2A hits. 10th out of 19

Second stage was my first texas star, kicked my ass a little, but I was happy with my end state. 11th out of 19

Third stage I tried to burn it down and was rewarded with a mike on a swinger behind partial cover. My best finish of the night 7 out of 19.

Finished 9th out of 19. I really could care less where I finish, it's just a benchmark, I'm more concerned with my hits. I had 52 A's, 1 B, 14 C's, 1 D and 1 M. If I could eliminate the mike and delta, I'd be fairly pleased with the hits from last night.

What drills or practices would you suggest for me, to find the balance of speed and accuracy?

Any mindset tips that help you stay on your intended plan after the timer goes off?

Any gear advice? I try to keep things fairly similar to my carry setup; same holster (use g19 for carry, but occasionally carry the g17) same mag pouch (just use 1 instead of 4) same belt.

Appreciate any input. My member number is A76253 if that might help anyone out.

beltjones
05-16-2012, 12:28 PM
I dove headfirst into the competition scene earlier this year, never having shot on a timer save for Army quals. I started shooting steel challenge, and still do, but shoot a weekly USPSA local match.

I shoot production with a gen 4 g17 SAD prefix serial number, 30274 ejector, the only aftermarket parts are ameriglo defoor sights.

I use a hideous holster stealth for now, but have a couple other OWB holsters enroute (all designed for concealment). Belt is a volund gearworks atlas and I use kytex gear mag pouches.

I'm not classified yet, but referencing my two classifier scores I should fall into the middle of C class.

My problem, or rather stumbling blocks start when the timer goes off. Last night I had a plan on the first stage of being as fast as accurately possible. It was a simple walkdown stage where no more than 4 targets were visible at any stationary point. My plan was to smoothly move down the firing lane and engage as I saw targets. I did just fine on movement, I could have been a little faster, but not much. My big problem was throwing an extra shot at a target that already had 2A hits. 10th out of 19

Second stage was my first texas star, kicked my ass a little, but I was happy with my end state. 11th out of 19

Third stage I tried to burn it down and was rewarded with a mike on a swinger behind partial cover. My best finish of the night 7 out of 19.

Finished 9th out of 19. I really could care less where I finish, it's just a benchmark, I'm more concerned with my hits. I had 52 A's, 1 B, 14 C's, 1 D and 1 M. If I could eliminate the mike and delta, I'd be fairly pleased with the hits from last night.

What drills or practices would you suggest for me, to find the balance of speed and accuracy?

Any mindset tips that help you stay on your intended plan after the timer goes off?

Any gear advice? I try to keep things fairly similar to my carry setup; same holster (use g19 for carry, but occasionally carry the g17) same mag pouch (just use 1 instead of 4) same belt.

Appreciate any input. My member number is A76253 if that might help anyone out.

Let me see if I can address the specific questions, then offer some basic advice.

First, the G17 is fine. I shot to A class with one. I ended up with a G34, but I think the advantages are more mental than anything. For your belt, the thing you ought to think about is whether or not you can readily practice with it. Having the best holster and mag pouches is nice, but I think it's better to be able to practice at a moment's notice when the mood strikes and you have the free time. If you can sneak in 2 or 3 15 minute dryfire sessions in a day you will see rapid improvement, and having gear you can throw on quickly is what makes that possible for me. That's the only reason I prefer the CR Speed belt and mag pouches. If you use your carry setup, and you have it on all the time, that's what I would use if I were you.

I think too much is made between the balance between speed and accuracy too soon for most people. For most shots you can either make the shot or you can't, whether or not you have a half a second or ten seconds. Work first on your ability to make every single shot on every single stage. Then simply go as fast as you can call every single shot. I know you wrote that your movement was fine, but I bet it wasn't. It takes a lot of practice to really understand how to move efficiently so that you can be shooting as soon as possible on every target.

The mindset question is a really important one. How many times are you visualizing - in great detail - your run through each stage? Before each stage can you run through the whole thing in your mind, seeing each position, each target, hitting every reload, and calling every shot? If not, memorize the parts you don't remember and run it again mentally. Matt Burkett says he likes to visualize every stage over 20 times before shooting it. By visualizing each run so many times you trick your brain into thinking you have done this before, and then you just go hit autopilot and pay attention to the important stuff like calling shots. Experience will help a lot as well. While there are infinite stage possibilities, you will find that patterns often repeat, and that makes it easier to memorize stages and positions.

At its core, despite all the carnival props and field courses, USPSA is a sport that poses a shooting problem and asks you to solve it. The main question is whether or not you can apply the fundamentals even if you're being messed with. Work on those fundamentals, work on applying those fundamentals no matter what is thrown at you, and take the time to learn to play the game, including the mental aspects. I think if you start doing those things you won't be concerned about the balance between speed and accuracy, you will instead simply shoot everything as well as you can, and work to improve your abilities in practice.

Shokr21
05-16-2012, 12:49 PM
Man, thanks for the reality check.

I'm sure my movement wasn't as good as it should be.

I do visualize the stage and when I'm called in the hole I turn off my ear pro and really focus on my stage plan. Where my reloads are, where I'll have extra shots, which shots require more attention (partially covered targets or distances in excess of 15 yards), where my footwork and muzzle control need to be spot on.

In the initial walk through I develop a plan and walk through it 2-3 times, then try to run through it as many times as possible. I know this part of my game needs work, but I feel that this is something that more or less comes with experience. I've shot 3 matches or 9 stages thus far.

As far as accuracy goes, I just need to trust my sights. There were several times last night that I knew I was on target but didn't pull the trigger and re-adjusted my sight picture. That shit needs to stop, get a sight picture trust it and pull the trigger.

In the end USPSA is something I do to get some practice. I'm not going to travel to area's and sectional's, small local matches are it for me. I want to be as accurate as I can be with good speed. I feel as though I have the accuracy portion started in a good direction. I need to get a feel for where I can get froggy with speed and not lose too much accuracy. Reloads are something that eat me up, I've been working on them everyday for about an hour total time throughout the day.

Thanks again for the reality check. Feel free to eat me up here, I have thick skin.

beltjones
05-16-2012, 01:36 PM
Man, thanks for the reality check.

I'm sure my movement wasn't as good as it should be.

I do visualize the stage and when I'm called in the hole I turn off my ear pro and really focus on my stage plan. Where my reloads are, where I'll have extra shots, which shots require more attention (partially covered targets or distances in excess of 15 yards), where my footwork and muzzle control need to be spot on.

In the initial walk through I develop a plan and walk through it 2-3 times, then try to run through it as many times as possible. I know this part of my game needs work, but I feel that this is something that more or less comes with experience. I've shot 3 matches or 9 stages thus far.

As far as accuracy goes, I just need to trust my sights. There were several times last night that I knew I was on target but didn't pull the trigger and re-adjusted my sight picture. That shit needs to stop, get a sight picture trust it and pull the trigger.

In the end USPSA is something I do to get some practice. I'm not going to travel to area's and sectional's, small local matches are it for me. I want to be as accurate as I can be with good speed. I feel as though I have the accuracy portion started in a good direction. I need to get a feel for where I can get froggy with speed and not lose too much accuracy. Reloads are something that eat me up, I've been working on them everyday for about an hour total time throughout the day.

Thanks again for the reality check. Feel free to eat me up here, I have thick skin.

Nah man, no intention of eating you up. You're definitely on the right track.

I must warn you, many, many people have come before you saying the same thing, "I'm only doing local matches..." and before long they are bitten by the bug.

As far as where you can get froggy with the speed, unfortunately it's a never ending journey because "fast" is relative to what feels fast to you, and it's something you have to constantly play with. There is a tendency to think you can figure out what targets you don't need to aim at or which ones you can just mash the trigger as fast as you can on, but it's not like that. There is no shot you can't miss.

You can figure out some guidelines, like at under 5 yards I can get away with point shooting or at 10 yards I need to see a blurry front sight. But in reality that knowledge has to be subconscious, and it only comes from experience.

Ultimately shooting USPSA will make you a better pistol shooter, but frankly it sucks for practice. What I mean is that USPSA will force you to recognize holes in your abilities, and if you correct them you will be ahead of the curve. If you're only getting out to matches for some trigger time you're probably not making the most efficient use of your time and ammo. That's just my experience.
TY69269 is my USPSA number, btw. See you on the range some day.

Shokr21
05-16-2012, 02:28 PM
Thanks again your insight and input it is much appreciated.

I'm just a college kid, that's trying to gain a better handle on pistol-craft.

I'm working on a dillon square deal b setup for 9mm. That will help some financially I think.

I know what you mean about the bug, I have an addictive personality but I think the little lady and finances will keep me confined to local matches for the foreseeable future.

I'm also looking at taking some pistol classes. Brownell's range is pretty close and I've heard promising things from their students. Being from a state that's pretty much a cornfield doesn't help when trying to find good training.

beltjones
05-16-2012, 02:39 PM
Thanks again your insight and input it is much appreciated.

I'm just a college kid, that's trying to gain a better handle on pistol-craft.

I'm working on a dillon square deal b setup for 9mm. That will help some financially I think.

I know what you mean about the bug, I have an addictive personality but I think the little lady and finances will keep me confined to local matches for the foreseeable future.

I'm also looking at taking some pistol classes. Brownell's range is pretty close and I've heard promising things from their students. Being from a state that's pretty much a cornfield doesn't help when trying to find good training.

There's another shooter here who started USPSA in college with just a little money and a Square Deal set up for 9mm. That was only a few years ago, but just this week he did this with the FAST:

http://youtu.be/f73jEe7Mzjw

Here's his USPSA number: A54313. Check out that classification percentage!

Shokr21
05-16-2012, 02:44 PM
yea I've been following both the vogel and stoeger threads. Simply impressive, I have no other words.

I guess there's the penthouse, I'm stuck at ground level for the time being.

Wendell
05-16-2012, 06:25 PM
This (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0962692506/ref=sib_dp_kd/187-4307107-6656465#reader-link) will help:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31ohfC1CFbL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click-small,TopRight,12,-30_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0962692506/ref=sib_dp_kd/187-4307107-6656465#reader-link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0962692506/ref=sib_dp_kd/187-4307107-6656465#reader-link)

DonovanM
05-16-2012, 07:20 PM
You're on all kinds of the right track. Don't get too caught up in the trivialities of the thing right away. Just have fun, learn as much as you can, and be patient with yourself. I'm in the same boat as you, college, it sucks not getting to shoot a lot, but you can practice almost everything in dry fire. Listen to beltjones, he knows his shit. Good luck.

GOP
05-16-2012, 08:14 PM
I just want to tell you good luck and that I appear to be in a similar place as you, knew to competition but diving in head first. I'm also a college student, and I'd also like to say that it sucks, though I'm lucky because I was able to buy a lot of ammo this year. Right now, I'm trying to hit every shot in competition, and my focus in practice right now is 25m accuracy, 15-20m split times, and pure weapons handling ability.

Shokr21
05-22-2012, 11:15 PM
Well since last time I've bought a dillon square deal b ready for 9mm, a pound of titegroup, 5k winchester small pistol primers, and I haven't decided on bullets yet. moly coated lead ok through a stock glock barrel?

Shot 3 stages tonight, finished 7 overall with 3 mikes, going to fast and not tracking sights (throwing 2nd shot of controlled pairs ie going way too fast) placed 3, 5 and 7 respectively.

stage 1 el presidente: 2A 8C 1D 1M Time: 8.36 Top Time:7.65 Missed the mike, meaning I don't recall how I threw it, was on the middle target and I'm fairly certain it was after the reload. Tried to burn it down coming through after the reload and got too froggy.

Stage 2: 26A 5C 2D Time: 41.13 Top Time: 27.66 This was a long stage with several arrays, I was happy with my shooting save the 2D's, movement and reloads need to improve.

Stage 3: 10A 4C 3D 2M Time 26.41 Top Time for production: 26.11 5 steel in this stage, all targets were ~20meters. This stage had several props and proved to be weirdly difficult for most.

I had good plans and didn't stutter through the stages except for shooting at a target twice (visible from two different points and was unsure if I had engaged like my plan should have been, better to be safe than sorry). Tonight my bane was reloads and throwing shots. Reloads I can work on at home, shots will just take range time.

JeffJ
05-23-2012, 07:31 AM
I've gotten mixed answers on moly coated - I think they'll also smoke a lot with Titegroup.

I use 124 gr. Berrry's over 4.2 gr Titegroup - averages 1085 fps out of my G34 - I think that's near the top range for 124 gr. bullets so I'd start a little lower and work up, but I like a little pop and 4.0gr just didn't feel right to me although I never chrono'd it so it could be in between my ears.

I've found that my Gen 4 likes a little hotter load, although once I put the 30274 ejector and white sound HRED in it got a lot less picky

jthhapkido
05-23-2012, 11:21 AM
Shot 3 stages tonight, finished 7 overall with 3 mikes, going to fast and not tracking sights (throwing 2nd shot of controlled pairs ie going way too fast) placed 3, 5 and 7 respectively.
(snip)
I had good plans and didn't stutter through the stages except for shooting at a target twice (visible from two different points and was unsure if I had engaged like my plan should have been, better to be safe than sorry). Tonight my bane was reloads and throwing shots. Reloads I can work on at home, shots will just take range time.

Just a comment from the peanut gallery: if you are consistently throwing the second shot of a controlled pair, then it probably isn't a controlled pair---you are probably shooting double-taps, and you don't know where the sights are when the second shot goes off.

Your times are really fast---but if you don't really know where your shots are going, and are relying on The Force :) for your hits (2 A-hits on El Presidente?) then that "fast" is misleading. I'm not saying go slower---I'm saying you need to see your sights better before you let off the shot.

Dryfire at home actually can help this, by the way.

Shokr21
05-23-2012, 12:33 PM
Good call, definitely wrong terminology.

el presidente, I was trying to burn it down, definitely got out of my comfort zone speed wise.

ETA my 2 mikes on stage 3 were on swingers, thought I had good hits but obviously did not. Not an excuse just added information.