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jlw
05-16-2012, 07:35 AM
The F.A.S.T. test:Range: 7 yards
Target: 3×5 card (head), 8″ plate (body)
Start position: weapon concealed or in duty condition with all holster retention devices active; shooter facing downrange in relaxed stance with arms down at sides
Rounds fired: 6

To count, the F.A.S.T. must be shot from concealment or from a recognized retention holster. Open-top retention holsters without concealment (e.g., Blackhawk SERPA, Safariland ALS) add an additional 0.50 to the shooter’s time. Using both a standard duty retention holster (e.g., Safariland SLS, SSIII) as well as flap/retention magazine pouches will result in a 0.50 reduction in recorded time.
Only scores earned during a pistol-training.com class or similar ptc-recognized event are eligible for record status or winning a F.A.S.T. Challenge Coin.

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The above comes straight from the Pistol-Training.com rules for the FASTest. For those of you that think that there is any violation of the rules or somehow think that the runs aren't legitimate because of the gear being used in either Mr. Vogel's or Mr. Stoeger's videos, please reference the specific portion of the above rules that is being violated.

ToddG
05-16-2012, 09:54 AM
Don't know if my vote counts or not, but as best I could, see the concealed runs by both guys were 100% within the rules as far as concealment is concerned.

JConn
05-16-2012, 10:02 AM
Ha! Well I think that settles it. Those guys are just legitimately awesome. They could do what they do with any gear.

LOKNLOD
05-16-2012, 10:07 AM
Don't know if my vote counts or not, but as best I could, see the concealed runs by both guys were 100% within the rules as far as concealment is concerned.

Shaddup, Todd, while we debate the minutia of your test! People are doing something better than me, and I'll have none of it!

:p

LittleLebowski
05-16-2012, 10:09 AM
I really don't see the big deal here.

orionz06
05-16-2012, 10:27 AM
Then let's all try our damnedest to make one.

jlw
05-16-2012, 11:01 AM
I just don't get it. Two shooters both displaying remarkable skill, and folks are griping over the cover garment? Seriously?

The way I read the rules, they say from concealment. It looks to me like both shooters met that rule.

GOP
05-16-2012, 11:03 AM
As I said before, I was being sarcastic. I think several people were as well. I don't think I could run a 3.11 or 2.98 from the ready position.

VolGrad
05-16-2012, 12:04 PM
As I said before, I was being sarcastic. I think several people were as well. I don't think I could run a 3.11 or 2.98 from the ready position.

I think I might be able to do a 3 second run .... from the ready position .... and without having to a re-load. Of course, I'd still wear a SMF vest just for kicks. :p

orionz06
05-16-2012, 12:05 PM
I'd still wear a SMF vest just for kicks. :p


Vests are in this year. I shit you not, I have seen so many vests in recent months. Not SMF vests but Arc'teryx and North Face ones from REI and the like.

Suvorov
05-16-2012, 12:41 PM
So open top retention holsters (Safariland ALS) FROM concealment and open top magazine pouches FROM concealment do NOT modify your raw time? :confused:

ToddG
05-16-2012, 12:58 PM
Concealed holster = 0 penalty
Traditional retention holster = 0 penalty

Open top retention holsters like ALS/SERPA add one half second to the shooter's time. Shooting from concealment eliminates this penalty. The penalty exists merely as a matter of practicality. ALS/SERPA holsters add no time to the draw and thus they'd become the gamer's way to get the best possible score.

Closed/snap mag pouches reduce (benefit) the shooter's time be one half second.

So for example, an ALS holster and snap mag pouches adds up to zero penalty.

KeeFus
05-16-2012, 01:11 PM
So open top retention holsters (Safariland ALS) FROM concealment and open top magazine pouches FROM concealment do NOT modify your raw time? :confused:

My current set-up for IDPA includes an ALS holster. It's adding anywhere from .15 -.25 to my time versus a Blade-tech set up. I made a conscious decision to use the ALS b/c it so closely resembles what I carry at work, which is a 6360. If I ever go to any TLG class to try for the coin it will be done from the ALS with concealment. It is amazing though that a little retention knob adds what seems to be a lifetime to a draw.

It does seem that there would be a minor time adjustment but as it stands for me now I'm buzzing the hell out of the 5 second mark with it. I'd rather get the coin with no adjustments than have an adjusted time.

I've watched both the Vogel and Stoeger videos and read all the comments. I find it truly amazing that these 2 shooters have such a talent as to do what they do. Sub 5 FAST drills is truly amazing...anything below 4 is an anomoly...sub 3...GEEZ!!!

rsa-otc
05-16-2012, 01:31 PM
Todd;

What penalty would you assign to a level 1 (thumb break) duty holster that we use for our revolvers?

orionz06
05-16-2012, 01:38 PM
So per the rules is it acceptable to use a concealed closed top/flap type mag pouch along with an AIWB holster and have 0.50 second reduction to my time?