Why so many H&K groupies?

[CK1]

I've put my flame-retardant-suit on and just have got to ask: why so many H&K groupies on this very newly formed pistol-forum.com site?

Here's my take: I'm well aware of Todd's pistol-training.com endurance tests with a P30 9mm and HK45 (both of which I've owned and put several thousands of rounds through but do not own anymore), but their good performances not withstanding, I just don't quite understand the shear amount of attention they seem to have garnished in this section (autoloaders) and on this site relative to any of the other specimens out there?

Perhaps the "Todd G. halo-effect" in full-swing?

[SecondsCount]

There are more H&K shooters here than most forums, except HKpro of course, but there are quite a few M&P and Glock shooters as well.

I think I am one of the few 1911 "groupies" though. :p

[Kyle Reese]

I think you'll find that just as many people here are admirers of the Glock & M&P platforms as well.

That said, both the P30 & HK45 have proven themselves in terms of reliability, accuracy and overall durability.

[CK1]

Just have noticed how many H&K threads there are compared to other's, that's all...

[Joe in PNG]

I think many of the shooters here… shoot a heck of a lot. Many of which are instructors that teach lots of classes that fire a lot of rounds. So, it kind of comes out that, if you want to fire several hundred rounds in a weekend class/match, and you don’t want to break your gun, wrist, or bank account, a heavy duty, polymer framed, high capacity 9mm is likely the way to go. So, you have a lot of fans for H&K, Glock, and the S&W M&P (I shade more to the Glock myself).

But that’s just my observation…

[Chipster]

I shoot alot of different guns, but because of what I do, I try to carry a non-Glock firearms most times as the Glock is the preferred police sidearm in my area. I shoot the Glock well though, and I usually carry it if I am stuck wearing a uniform. I do admit though that I feel slightly arrogant when I pull out the HK though. Pride of ownership I guess but I try not to knock other guys handgun selection. I got smoked by a guy shooting a S&W 6906 once :(

[BWT]

I think really... you're looking at a forum where

1.) The founder/owner has shot and tested many H&K's, and attracts H&K users.

2.) Those H&K's did very well in said testing, so, people don't see the need to buy other things.

3.) Not saying this is an "up scale" or whatever (this definitely isn't an NFA board) board, but this a serious pistol shooting board, honestly, they spend money on quality.

Between those things, I think that'd explain it, but truthfully, I never got the impression that this was an H&K forum, I figured it more of a "use what works well" forum.

It really is, whether it be what gun you carry, ammunition, how you carry said gun, who they're recommending/using for training.

I lurk more than I post, and I can tell you the caliber of individuals posting is very good. Lots of Sage wisdom being passed around, qualified opinions, etc.

[TCinVA]

Just have noticed how many H&K threads there are compared to other's, that's all...

Probably because the amount of information out there about the P30 relative to other handgun options on the market.

[BWT]

I make a prediction, as this Glock test rolls into full affect, and we get into the double digit weeks of testing, or it has some major bobbles, or something of that nature.

Or if it does real well, we'll start seeing posters that use Glocks predominantly.

[LOKNLOD]

Just have noticed how many H&K threads there are compared to other's, that's all...

I think there are a lot more unanswered questions out there surrounding the HK weapons. The options out there for Glocks, and to a slightly lesser extent M&Ps, are pretty well known; there's just not as much out there to rehash. Since Todd and other HK shooters are here, it makes it a good place for those looking for more info to come ask questions.

I'm sure there will be a plenty of new Glock discussion moving forward with Todd's next test starting up.

[MTechnik]

Just have noticed how many H&K threads there are compared to other's, that's all...

ToddG is an expert in the platform. Some folks would rather post those questions here, hoping he weighs in on it. I'd say that counts for a good reason for a good percent of the HK threads.

[P30shtr]

Well, I think everyone bout summed it up. I might have another point or two. Todd is a member over at HKpro as well so, I'm sure that brought a few people over. The abundance of H&K threads somewhat stems from them being more difficult to work on/tinker with (no hour long H&K certified armorers class, i.e. Glock ;) so, people are going to have more ??? to ask the experts. Let me be clear, not trying to bash Glock with that last statement (I have a Gen 3 19). Actually the ease of dis assembly and parts availability/aftermarket support with that platform (Glock as a whole) is one of the best things its got going for it. I dont know, shrugs.I guess thats all I got.

[YVK]

I've put my flame-retardant-suit on and just have got to ask: why so many H&K groupies on this very newly formed pistol-forum.com site?

.... I just don't quite understand the shear amount of attention they seem to have garnished in this section (autoloaders) and on this site relative to any of the other specimens out there?

Perhaps the "Todd G. halo-effect" in full-swing?

The two things I put in bold, quoting your post, are different things. There are 9 pages in EDC Carry subforum in regards to people's CCWs, and there are only 8 people who listed P30 as carry choice. Of those eight, one has gone to a Glock recently, as we all know. So actual "groupie-users" number is not that big, although one can argue that even 7 is larger than expected proportion.

The number of posts generated has to do with relative rarity of P30 comparing to Glock and other more common pistols. This is a sort of selection bias where less usual pistol creates more attention and generates more questions than other more prevalent and well known types.

[dookie1481]

I think LOKNLOD covered it the best.

I am personally switching to the P30 because I want a hammer-fired gun for appendix carry, and new Sigs seem to be too much of a crapshoot in the QC department.

[MichaelD]

I think I am one of the few 1911 "kool-aid drinkers" though. :p

There. Fixed that for you.

[jslaker]

It's funny, I mentioned to a friend of mine that I'm already seeing a bit of a hivemind at pfc:

HK good.
9mm good.
AIWB good.

But probably most importantly:

Training good.
Data good.

I'm sure Todd has a considerable effect on all this, but there's also a considerable consensus effect from a lot of the SMEs -- minus, perhaps the H&K part, but as others have mentioned, I've seen numerous posts mentioning Glocks and M&Ps in quite positive light. At the same time, we also have threads about problems with all these platforms already, which brings up another aspect of the character here I'm digging - don't bullshit yourself.



Or if it does real well, we'll start seeing posters that use Glocks predominantly.

I was planning on moving to a Gen4 Glock before Todd announced his test, dammit. :mad: ;)

[JV_]

I've put my flame-retardant-suit on and just have got to ask: why so many H&K groupies on this very newly formed pistol-forum.com site?Appendix carry works well for me. I am uncomfortable carrying a striker fired gun AIWB. I'm left with (quality) hammer fired guns .... I think the HK is king of that hill right now. If I did regular IWB or OWB, I doubt I would own a P30.

The P30 is *NOT* my favorite gun, but I'm hoping I'll warm up with more rounds. I shoot my M&P and Glocks better, but really like the paddle mag release (small hands) and the insurance policy offered by the hammer.

[Jay Cunningham]

don't bullshit yourself

Now that there is some good advice.

[fuse]

This is kind of unrelated, but..

I consider myself an Hk groupie.

Though I do not own nor have ever owned a single hk.

I suspect I am not alone

[gtmtnbiker98]

What's this H&K you speak of? :confused:

Joking aside, I've carried Sig pistols for years as an issued duty weapon and shot Glock and M&P pistols as my privately owned pistols for years, logging thousands of rounds down range in both competition and training. What started my interest in HK pistols was the release of the P30. Until then, I wasn't remotely interested in the HK offerings, namely the USP. Once I tried the P30, I never looked back. I currently own the V3 DA/SA variant of the P30 (9 & .40) and P30L and the system just works for me. Thousands of rounds and after three years of hard use, just now do I have to consider a recoil spring replacement (after 25,000 rounds).

The reason for the lacking of after market support, IMO - is due primarily to the question, what really needs improved? Night sights are available from prominent manufacturers and there are gunsmiths out there willing and able to perform the trigger tweaks demanded of those who find the OEM trigger less than optimal. With HK systems, you have your choice of a variety of trigger setups and in the rare event of a parts replacement, HKI and HKParts offers parts replacement; however, they are not as "easy" to install when compared to Glock.

As for the cost of admission, one must understand that HK does not outsource their parts, everything is built in-house. They perform stringent Quality Control on their firearms and are proofed not once, but twice prior to shipment. In addition, the firearms are test fired and the sights are regulated prior to shipment as well. All of this comes at a price and of course, is reflected at the LGS when you go to purchase said firearm. All of this is not even taking into consideration the Euro to Dollar ratio.

[KentF]

I'll admit I drink the HK kool aid. :D For me, it started in the early 1980's when I bought a used HK 91 rifle at a gun show. I've always been the type of person that has something different from my friends. No one I knew at the time had an HK and quite a few hand never heard of them. This was before the Secret Service switched from Uzis to HK MP5s. The people I worked with in law enforcement were all starting to jump on the AR platform for long guns.

I have small hands and for a very long time I couldn't find anything that fit my hand better than a Browning Hi-Power. I've tried very hard to like the Glock, but there is something about it that just doesn't feel right to me. I've tried Sigs, but their trigger reach is just a tad too long, even with the "short trigger". A few years ago I had an opportunity to handle a HK USP45 compact and was amazed at how comfortable it felt in my hand. I bought it and converted it from a V1 to "light" LEM thanks to the excellent post on the HKpro.com forums. I've wanted to add another 9mm to my sable and because of my positive experience with the HK I didn't feel the need to look any further.

I'm not a "fanboy" in the sense that I think HKs are the be all and end all of firearms, but for me, I haven't found anything I like as well. At least when it comes to handguns.

[turbolag23]

The P30 is *NOT* my favorite gun, but I'm hoping I'll warm up with more rounds. I shoot my M&P and Glocks better, but really like the paddle mag release (small hands) and the insurance policy offered by the hammer.

Same here, I'm hoping I'll get used to the P30 as well but I shoot my Glocks a lot more because they are my carry guns. I like the P30 because I'm a lefty and the mag and slide release are ambi and the ergonomics are great.


I currently own the V3 DA/SA variant of the P30 (9 & .40) and P30L and the system just works for me. Thousands of rounds and after three years of hard use, just now do I have to consider a recoil spring replacement (after 25,000 rounds).


Going along with the notion that people here seem to be shooting what Todd shoots, most people I see are mentioning the LEM triggers, what made you go with the V3 for yours? (I own the V3 as well which is why I'm asking)

[TCinVA]

I think LOKNLOD covered it the best.

I am personally switching to the P30 because I want a hammer-fired gun for appendix carry, and new Sigs seem to be too much of a crapshoot in the QC department.

That is precisely why I ordered a couple of P30's.

I tried out AIWB carry and found that I could pack a full-sized handgun with almost total invisibility and perfect comfort all day, every day. When carrying on the hip I usually had to carry a smaller pistol in certain environments where being caught carrying a handgun would have unpleasant consequences. So I started carrying in a good AIWB holster.

I spent a good bit of time training with the AIWB setup and increasingly became troubled by reholstering a striker-fired handgun with a ~ 5 pound trigger and no manual safety. On more than one occasion I caught myself at the end of a long day reholstering the pistol with too little thought about the consequences of an unintentional discharge. To prevent becoming a statistic I wanted a greater margin of safety. I looked at buying an M&P with the manual safety, but I never could get used to the safety placement.

I had the chance to run the P30 and HK45 test guns and liked them both quite a bit, so I figured I'd go that route instead. I've never gotten along with Sigs because of the funny layout of their controls and when combined with what I've seen some folks going through with Sig QC lately, I just didn't consider them to be an option. Since I already had the experience of using the HK's with some success and since I knew an armorer who happened to know the president of H&K USA I figured that the P30 would be a low risk purchase.

Was my decision making impacted by Todd handing me H&K handguns, free ammo, and good quality AIWB holsters to try out? Of course. I make a deliberate effort to be a reasonable man and on the occasions when I find a genuinely better mousetrap I'm not the least bit reluctant to adopt it.

For me, the weapons and carry gear are a means to an end, not the end in and of themselves. AIWB let me carry more gun in more situations than strong-side carry. The P30 allows me to practice in my carry gear with a larger margin of safety than my M&P's offered me. It also happens to be a pistol I can count on to function reliably with excellent accuracy at several times the accepted average lifespan of a handgun...and it's truly the kind of gun you can treat like a lawnmower. You can shoot the bejeezus out of the thing without needing to do much of anything to it in terms of maintenance.

It's like a Glock...only with a better grip, it doesn't cut my hands, it isn't as likely to blow a hole in my femoral artery.

You'll find that several of us who have spent time on the range together own P30 pistols. It's not surprising given that we have spent considerable time shooting together, talking gun stuff over chips and salsa or pho, and generally using one another as a sounding board for ideas and problems. We obviously have an impact on one another in terms of our thinking and what we end up doing....and that's a good thing. You'll find that a lot of the P30 owners in our little circle of influence bought their guns for the same reasons I bought mine.

The difference between group-think and a reliable consensus is the quality of the people involved.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Going along with the notion that people here seem to be shooting what Todd shoots, most people I see are mentioning the LEM triggers, what made you go with the V3 for yours? (I own the V3 as well which is why I'm asking)Well, I don't shoot what Todd shoots, I am one of those who never quite warmed up to the LEM. Familiarity deficiency aside, when shooting at speed, I would put my shots low on the target. This is a user error, not a weapon error - but I was simply not willing to reinvest in the required ammo just to get back up to the proficiency I enjoy with the TDA.

All of my pistols are DA/SA and the LEM is an answer to a question I simply never asked. I do not have difficulty with the first DA shot which is the primary reason many (if not all) choose the LEM. I personally like the SA trigger of the P30 and even like the HK45c's trigger a lot better. For me, LEM just has too much slop and I could never get acquainted with all the takeup and lack of reset feel on the LEM. Not saying that the DA/SA is better than the LEM or vice versa; however, DA/SA works for me and I'm too invested in the system to make any changes.

[LittleLebowski]

I've put my flame-retardant-suit on and just have got to ask: why so many H&K groupies on this very newly formed pistol-forum.com site?

Here's my take: I'm well aware of Todd's pistol-training.com endurance tests with a P30 9mm and HK45 (both of which I've owned and put several thousands of rounds through but do not own anymore), but their good performances not withstanding, I just don't quite understand the shear amount of attention they seem to have garnished in this section (autoloaders) and on this site relative to any of the other specimens out there?

Perhaps the "Todd G. halo-effect" in full-swing?

Gen3 9mm Glock like reliability and Les Baer like accuracy in a polymer, very corrosion resistant pistol. What's not to like?

[John Ralston]

As mentioned, it is a great source for real world info from people who really know what they are talking about.

The same question could have been answered elsewhere, but were posted here knowing that an answer would soon follow.

Google can answer questions about most other platforms.

Oh...and yeah...I wanted a light weight, polymer gun with no external safties AND a hammer, so that what little I have down there doesn's get shot off when carrying AIWB. ;)

[ToddG]

Appendix carry works well for me.

I think this is a big part of the HK Love here at PF. For whatever reason, pistol-training.com is one of the sites that helped popularize AIWB. So some people who were reading PTC gave it a try, and some folks who were into AIWB (or interested in AIWB) found PTC.

Combine that with the obvious safety benefit of a hammer fired gun and the very positive P30 test results that they would have seen at PTC, and the combo is sort of a no-brainer.


I was planning on moving to a Gen4 Glock before Todd announced his test, dammit. :mad: ;)

You lie! No one liked the Glock before my test! All of Glock's future success will be thanks to me!!!!!!!!
:cool:

[jslaker]

For me, LEM just has too much slop and I could never get acquainted with all the takeup and lack of reset feel on the LEM.

I've seen this mentioned a few times, and it's always thrown me a little. After converting my USPc to LEM, the trigger break and reset was very similar to the original V1 SA break and reset. When I took the time to polish up the LEM internals a bit to mimic the thousands of rounds the V1 parts had seen, the difference became minute at best.

I know I've heard the P30 and HK45 have resets from each other; it makes me wonder if they're substantially disimilar to the USP. I've shot a P2000 and P30, but both were DA/SA guns; haven't shot an HK45 at all since I don't really seek out .45 ACP.

[ToddG]

The USP/HK45 series have a shorter reset (by about 40%) than the P-series.

I've never found the reset feel itself to be different between the two or between the DA/SA and LEM versions, especially when the heavier trigger return spring is put in the LEM gun.

The main difference is that the DA/SA trigger stops moving forward at a certain point and the LEM will continue to put pressure on your fingertip all the way back to the rest position.

[Pistol Shooter]

I've put my flame-retardant-suit on and just have got to ask: why so many H&K groupies on this very newly formed pistol-forum.com site?

I’m a confessed HK fan. :)

Here’s why:

I’ve been shooting quality pistols for 35 years. My first purchase was a T Series BHP. Soon thereafter, I bought a Colt MKIV Series 70 Government Model -- so that gives you some idea of what I consider “quality.”

Two years ago, a problematic Colt Combat Commander led me to search for a handgun that was accurate, durable and reliable to a fault.

I bought my first HK, a P30 L, and was extremely pleased with all aspects of this pistol. Since then, I’ve added two more HKs to my collection.

I like the accuracy and consistent reliability of my HK handguns.
German engineering, craftsmanship and proofing make them top drawer pistols, IMO.

ETA

Since Glock and M&P's are also under discussion, I'd like to add:

I have the highest respect for Glock products but they've never felt quite right in my hand.

I also have an M&P 9 which is a very fine pistol.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

No one liked the Glock before my test! All of Glock's future success will be thanks to me!!!!!!!!
:cool:

Who are you, again?:confused:

I only saw one person using a H&K P series in a class. That was an Ayoob class last year, be it didn't run well.

Granted, the guy running it was using steel case ammo and wasn't exactly on point with it...in fact, somehow he jammed it us so that the gun wouldn't lock back or release the round in the chamber (that was a teachable moment about not sweeping people...) so as to the H&K P-series, I'm lukewarm.

I'm glad someone is playing with them hard, because for too long I have only heard about how great H&K weapons are...and barely seen them on the range. Nobody around me shoots them.

[VolGrad]

I hate this and every single other HK thread mentioning the P30. I have wanted one since they were first introduced based on ergonomics alone. The P30 feels amazing in my hand. I have no issue with paying the asking price for a quality firearm so I can get past that. However, I have had trouble with the "feel" of the HK trigger.

I'm a GLOCK guy so every time I go to my gun shop to fondle an HK P30 and dry fire it a few times I walk out empty handed. I had finally forgot about about the P30 for a long time then folks on M4C became obsessed with them. For a while it seemed every thread in the HANDGUN section was about the P30. I went to the shop again .... left empty handed. Now P-F.com seems to be all P30 all the time .... I have to go look at them again now.

Damn you all. I have a feeling this is going to cost me a lot of money.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

I hate this and every single other HK thread mentioning the P30. I have wanted one since they were first introduced based on ergonomics alone. The P30 feels amazing in my hand. I have no issue with paying the asking price for a quality firearm so I can get past that. However, I have had trouble with the "feel" of the HK trigger.

I'm a GLOCK guy so every time I go to my gun shop to fondle an HK P30 and dry fire it a few times I walk out empty handed. I had finally forgot about about the P30 for a long time then folks on M4C became obsessed with them. For a while it seemed every thread in the HANDGUN section was about the P30. I went to the shop again .... left empty handed. Now P-F.com seems to be all P30 all the time .... I have to go look at them again now.

Damn you all. I have a feeling this is going to cost me a lot of money.

"Sooner or later it comes down to fate..."

You know you want to, so give in...

[VolGrad]

"Sooner or later it comes down to fate..."

You know you want to, so give in...
Two things have kept me from biting the bullet (so to speak) and just getting one to try ....


I know I won't get all my $ back if/when I decide I can't live with the HK trigger. HKs seem slow to move in the classifieds of local forums and shipping becomes expensive fast.

I like the fact I have consolidated all my carry, training, home defense weapons to GLOCK 9mm. It makes for consistency and facilitates gear selection/acquisition. The only non-GLOCK 9mm handguns I have left are a LCP, a Buckmark, and my beloved EB SF 1911 with a bobtail job (no longer carry but won't get rid of).

[JohnN]

Since I can't shoot my M&P that well I might as well switch to a P30.

Hey Todd, I know you have handled a P30 V3 from Gray Guns have you handled a LEM variant smithed by him yet?

[fuse]

Who are you, again?:confused:

I only saw one person using a H&K P series in a class. That was an Ayoob class last year, be it didn't run well.

Granted, the guy running it was using steel case ammo

That was as far as I got.

[ToddG]

Hey Todd, I know you have handled a P30 V3 from Gray Guns have you handled a LEM variant smithed by him yet?

Not that I can recall. But since the LEM is really little more than a single action DA/SA, my guess is that the Gray job would be equally nice. He's just very frakking expensive.


I like the fact I have consolidated all my carry, training, home defense weapons to GLOCK 9mm.

So at that point, the question isn't, "Is the P30 a better gun?" The question becomes, "Is the P30 so much better that it's worth investing in a whole new system from scratch?"

For some the answer is yes, for some it's no.

[David Armstrong]

I've put my flame-retardant-suit on and just have got to ask: why so many H&K groupies on this very newly formed pistol-forum.com site?
Because they just don't know any better?:p
Sorry, guys, I just couldn't resist!

[VolGrad]

So at that point, the question isn't, "Is the P30 a better gun?" The question becomes, "Is the P30 so much better that it's worth investing in a whole new system from scratch?"
Again, your wisdom shows though. I am curious enough though I just listed my G26 on a couple of local sites to help offset the $ of the HK. The G26 doesn't serve a real purpose in my line-up anyway so might as well cut it loose and try the HK I've wanted for years.

[VolGrad]

Damn you all. I have a feeling this is going to cost me a lot of money.I was right. I stopped by my local gun shop today and got a great deal on a V2 with actual Night Sights and 3 mags. Now, to see if I can get away to the range this weekend .....

EDIT: I never gave the LEM much attention. Most of the HKs I've handled have been DA/SA. The LEM actually feels quite acceptable ... in dry fire anyway. We'll see when I get to the range if it feels as good once it starts making noise.

[jslaker]

I was right. I stopped by my local gun shop today and got a great deal on a V2 with actual Night Sights and 3 mags. Now, to see if I can get away to the range this weekend .....

One of us. ;)

[turbolag23]

lucky you, congrats. gun shops around here havent had any of the LEM models to play with

[JodyH]

I prefer Glocks, but I carry a H&K P2000 LEM because of the extra margin of safety the hammer provides when carrying AIWB.
:cool:

[willowofwisp]

I was right. I stopped by my local gun shop today and got a great deal on a V2 with actual Night Sights and 3 mags. Now, to see if I can get away to the range this weekend .....

damn you! I may am looking at picking one up still too. I just can't justify the added cost yet....but i did buy a new strider knife haha.

[mongooseman]

Why so many H&K groupies?

Process of elimination of many years experimenting with platforms and calibers. As reliable and as accurate as anything on the market with the best ergonomics on the planet. Perfect? No, but when I throw one I know it's the operator, not the gun.

[TAP]

I was right. I stopped by my local gun shop today and got a great deal on a V2 with actual Night Sights and 3 mags. Now, to see if I can get away to the range this weekend .....

I'm a party pooper but I would have spent my money on ammo and Ken's class that you passed on next month.

[NickA]

Resistance is futile, we will all be assimilated.
i just decided to really standardize on Glock and now I'm having to seriously resist browsing the HK site every night. It's gonna get bad if Todd has his P30 at our class and lets me shoot it.;)

[ToddG]

Resistance is futile, we will all be assimilated.
i just decided to really standardize on Glock and now I'm having to seriously resist browsing the HK site every night. It's gonna get bad if Todd has his P30 at our class and lets me shoot it.;)

Nope. Barring misfortune or malfunction, I'll be shooting the the G17/4 all this year.

[vecdran]

Nope. Barring misfortune or malfunction, I'll be shooting the the G17/4 all this year.

Don't worry, I'll bet at GetSOM/SK in WA with a P30 and a P30L. With my HK hat on. Bring the HK hate. :p

[CK1]

Wow, 5 pages deep...

Sorry if I offended anyone with the "groupies" nomenclature (bet we wouldn't be on page 5 though), didn't mean anything by it and should have used something else like brand-loyalists or something.

Just struck me as odd to see all the P30/H&K threads as compared to threads on other makes.
The H&K P30 and 45 are indeed fine guns, but they do have their oddities such as expensive mags, "weird" mag release, support-hand-claustrophobia, difficulty and complexity to detail-strip, and (the biggest one IMO), pretty lousy trigger's even after swapping springs and doing what one can do to improve them and convert to a lighter-pulling variant short of paying Bruce Grey a fairly significant amount... IMHO just doesn't add up to a recipe I ever thought would be as popular as it seems to be given the sect of pragmatic shooters that seem to lurk around here.

They're good guns, they ooze quality and are well-made, but guess I just don't get what all the fuss is about having owned a few, different strokes for different folks I guess.

Anyways, it's the Indian, not the Arrow as they say...

H&K, you rock!!!

[jslaker]

"weird" mag release,

For people that have shot them for a while, that paddle release is honestly a huge perk. It's one of the reasons I'm reluctant to go Glock, personally.

[CK1]

For people that have shot them for a while, that paddle release is honestly a huge perk. It's one of the reasons I'm reluctant to go Glock, personally.

I hear you, it's all personal opinion anyways, no big deal. Hope I haven't stirred up a hornet's nest just by putting forth my opinion...

Think more than anything many just consider the H&K's synonymous with quality and reliability, and I'd tend to agree with those sentiments.

[jslaker]

I hear you, it's all personal opinion anyways, no big deal. Hope I haven't stirred up a hornet's nest just by putting forth my opinion...

Think more than anything many just consider the H&K's synonymous with quality and reliability, and I'd tend to agree with those sentiments.
Absolutely. I'll never fault a person for an honest opinion. The only reason I mentioned it is that *many* people are initially confused by the paddle release. I hesitate to call anything definitively "better," but it's certainly good at what it's intended to do once you stop treating it like a traditional button release.

[vecdran]

For people that have shot them for a while, that paddle release is honestly a huge perk. It's one of the reasons I'm reluctant to go Glock, personally.

I have found that most people who think the HK mag release is "weird" don't realize you're supposed to actuate it with your trigger finger, not your thumb. Once you get used to this, you should realize it's one of the fastest mag release design out there, short of stupidly huge extended race gun buttons. The fact that's its completely ambi is just icing.

[jslaker]

I have found that most people who think the HK mag release is "weird" don't realize you're supposed to actuate it with your trigger finger, not your thumb. Once you get used to this, you should realize it's one of the fastest mag release design out there, short of stupidly huge extended race gun buttons. The fact that's its completely ambi is just icing.
Fwiw, I run my 226 "left handed" for this reason.

[GJM]

As a longtime 1911 and revolver shooter, and living in Alaska and the west, the P30 and HK 45 with LEM triggers are my dream plastic guns. They point like a 1911, are super reliable, offer a close to a good DA revolver trigger, are as accurate as a good 1911, offer the safety of a hammer when reholstering, work with moderately thick gloves in cold weather, have no safety lever to manipulate in the exyreme cold, have a full size grip, and in the case of the P30 carry very well in a belt holster like the Rosen Upper Limit with their compact barrel length. You can train with a P30 in 9 and carry a P30 in .40 where the are four legged creatures around.

I certainly understand why others might choose a different pistol, but for my circumstances nothing else comes close.

[dookie1481]

Fwiw, I run my 226 "left handed" for this reason.

I switched my M&P release for the same reason.

[VolGrad]

I'm a party pooper but I would have spent my money on ammo and Ken's class that you passed on next month.

I have plenty of ammo. I do sort of regret not registering for the class though. I was trying to keep the wife happy given all the classes and matches I've done lately.

[willowofwisp]

I have plenty of ammo. I do sort of regret not registering for the class though. I was trying to keep the wife happy given all the classes and matches I've done lately.

Hmm...so moral of the story, don't get married and you could have both training and a new gun?

[VolGrad]

Hmm...so moral of the story, don't get married and you could have both training and a new gun?

Nah ... the moral of the story is try to space your training out. Since the week before Christmas I've had an absurd number of quality training opportunities present themselves locally in addition to IDPA and GSSF matches. I have hit as many as possible but just couldn't do it all and stay married. I figure I have 13 years invested already (+2 dating time) so I better keep her happy. Besides, she's kind of hot. :cool:

[TCinVA]

I hear you, it's all personal opinion anyways, no big deal. Hope I haven't stirred up a hornet's nest just by putting forth my opinion...


Note that people took your question seriously and responded with the reasons why they went with the P30 to further an intelligent discussion rather than resorting to the simian poo-flinging response one often receives to such an indelicately phrased question.

That's going to be the norm here at PF.com. :)

[LittleLebowski]

I plan to sooner or later jump on the bandwagon and be assimilated. Though I reholster carefully AWIB, the Glock still makes me nervous. Since there's no way of positively riding the safety whilst reholstering a Glock, the HK P30 is very attractive to me for that one benefit alone.

[Savage Hands]

A heads up for the H&K fans, Apex Tactical Specialties is working on drop in parts for H&K's handguns as well.

[SecondsCount]

This has turned into an interesting discussion. I will say that I never liked HK from an ergonomics point of view until I tried the P30 and found it to be extremely easy to shoot. Just picked up a used V2 and am digging it so far. It is definitely more refined than a Glock or M&P, not saying those are bad guns but the HK is like driving a Maxima or Infinity and the others are like a Sentra. :)




I think I am one of the few 1911 "kool-aid drinkers" though.

There. Fixed that for you.

You're just jealous because I can run an M&P better than you! :cool:

[JohnN]

A heads up for the H&K fans, Apex Tactical Specialties is working on drop in parts for H&K's handguns as well.

Don't tease us, what parts?

[F-Trooper05]

A DCAEK for the P30 would be sweet.

[Savage Hands]

I don't have anything specific as it may be towards the end of the year before it's released, but it will probably involve a similar process as the DCAEK of shortening the reset, reducing the overtravel, smoothing out the initial pull and maybe lightening the pull somewhat. When I get more information I'm allowed to post, I will do so :p

[Savage Hands]

They are first working on a better Hammer Axle for the USP and the HK45 which will smooth up the double and get rid of a bunch of the chatter after will be hammer and sear sets. The idea will be to smooth up the trigger, lighten it a bit and make the gun over all better. The P30 will also have parts to accomplish the same as above and the LEM models will be on the list as well.

[jslaker]

They are first working on a better Hammer Axle for the USP and the HK45 which will smooth up the double and get rid of a bunch of the chatter after will be hammer and sear sets. The idea will be to smooth up the trigger, lighten it a bit and make the gun over all better. The P30 will also have parts to accomplish the same as above and the LEM models will be on the list as well.
I'm curious to see how they manage the hammer axle without tightening tolerances and affecting reliability. But I trust Apex to do it right, certainly interested to see what they come up with.

[P30shtr]

I've put my flame-retardant-suit on and just have got to ask: why so many H&K groupies on this very newly formed pistol-forum.com site?

Here's my take: I'm well aware of Todd's pistol-training.com endurance tests with a P30 9mm and HK45 (both of which I've owned and put several thousands of rounds through but do not own anymore), but their good performances not withstanding, I just don't quite understand the shear amount of attention they seem to have garnished in this section (autoloaders) and on this site relative to any of the other specimens out there?

Perhaps the "Todd G. halo-effect" in full-swing?

Wow, look at all the Glock threads lately:D I know, its old (the thread), thought I'd talk a little... though. Not to mention M&P and, I even saw an XD one in there too, oh yeah, FN, a couple 1911's in there. I think the folks on PF are covering the gamete quite well. Well done to the staff as well. It goes to show that this site is catching on pretty quick. And as far as all the H&K stuff goes... its hard not to talk about the best all the time:p

[Glock17]

I dunno about that, I guess we will see. I think a lot of people are pretty unhappy with Glock right about now. I know I am. The proIblems with the 4G and newer 3G pistols and the way Glock has been handling the complaints has turned a lot of people off.
The HK's most people talk about are the P30 and HK 45/45c. These are relatively new pistols that have a lot of features people like plus excellent build quality and great accuracy. I never purchased or used previous models of HK pistol because they were so big and clunky and didn't like the dinky mag release. I was concerned about the paddle release after 30+ years of button releases but I adapted to it very quickly and now found it far superior. The trigger is fine with me.
i have a P30 with a thumb safety that allows me to carry locked and coked with the single action trigger and also keeps my thumb high enough to not hit the slide lock. I thought I wanted LEM but the thumb safety/SA trigger works better for me. HK did a great job on that thumb safety btw. Very nice positive feel, not too big and not too small. Smith could learn a few things here for their thumb safety equipped M&P's.
HK has also made some moves to improving its presence and customer service in the U.S.




I make a prediction, as this Glock test rolls into full affect, and we get into the double digit weeks of testing, or it has some major bobbles, or something of that nature.

Or if it does real well, we'll start seeing posters that use Glocks predominantly.

[Hot Sauce]

The difference between group-think and a reliable consensus is the quality of the people involved.
Clusterfrack, words of wisdom nomination.

[SecondsCount]

Wasn't this thread donated to the Smithsonian?

[Clusterfrack]

Clusterfrack, words of wisdom nomination.

Added to the Best Of thread...
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?53026-Best-of-P-F-(for-site-supporters-only)&p=1379992#post1379992

[TCinVA]

Wasn't this thread donated to the Smithsonian?

It's from a long time ago.

I still like my P30 pistols better than anything else I've ever carried. I gave them up a couple of years ago to pursue the mystery of the dot...it's really mysterious because the thing on top of the slide is what shoots the gun...and I've been carrying an RDS equipped handgun since. I've grown to really like having the dot even though I don't need it.

My requirements for AIWB carry are the same. I only AIWB carry pistols that have a mechanical safety of some sort to act as redundancy for reholstering. That was the Tau SCD on the Glock 17 and a thumb safety on the new project.

[SecondsCount]

It's from a long time ago.

I still like my P30 pistols better than anything else I've ever carried. I gave them up a couple of years ago to pursue the mystery of the dot...it's really mysterious because the thing on top of the slide is what shoots the gun...and I've been carrying an RDS equipped handgun since. I've grown to really like having the dot even though I don't need it.

My requirements for AIWB carry are the same. I only AIWB carry pistols that have a mechanical safety of some sort to act as redundancy for reholstering. That was the Tau SCD on the Glock 17 and a thumb safety on the new project.

The funny thing is, I was carrying 1911s when this thread started, was dabbling in P30s at that time, and completely switched soon after.

I do have a VP9 with a Holosun but am not sold on the reliability of a dot just yet.

So now I'm an H&K groupie :D

[Borderland]

I think you'll find that just as many people here are admirers of the Glock & M&P platforms as well.

That said, both the P30 & HK45 have proven themselves in terms of reliability, accuracy and overall durability.

Yep, I have both. I also have Sig P series and a few colt 1911's. I'd say the reliability factor is what sucked me in.

[LockedBreech]

This thread and the new Langdon P30 thread have made me realize I'm definitely going to re-add a P30 to the stable at some point.

In my brief time owning a P30 and VP9, I absolutely get the HK fandom. They are really obviously well made, maybe the best attention to quality control/detail of any production polymer line.

[Bergeron]

A USP is the only gun I never modified. I have my two medium/full-size 9mms, so I just don't have a need or a "real" use case in my life for a "big 9". If I had been smart enough to have kept that USP, it would be wacky-nice gun at this point.

[Sig_Fiend]

This thread and the new Langdon P30 thread have made me realize I'm definitely going to re-add a P30 to the stable at some point.

92481

In all seriousness, glad to see the platform maybe regaining a bit of popularity again. ;)

[YenkoYS100]

Thanks for adding me. I just found the page. I have a 45C, and am waiting on the arrival of a lightly used P30 LEM, with work done by Rick Holm. It will be my first LEM.

[willie]

HK triggers smooth up with slight use. I found a like new P-30L with a V1 trigger which is light and smooth. My dealer hates lem triggers and begged me to buy it. I can't think of a better house gun. Then he begged me to buy a P-30sk with a V1 trigger. I'm keeping these for my wife who likes them. About HK popularity on the forum. After guys shoot off their jewels carrying Glocks with an iwb holster, they buy another brand. At least that's what I read. I think a mod posted it. Not sure, though.

[DMCutter]

I have a USPc 9 and a USPc 40 with Gray Guns action jobs and an L&M RMR install on the 9. The DA pulls are not as buttery smooth as the DA pull on my Sig Armorer modded Legion 229s but it's still pretty good, especially with 10# Wolff mainsprings. The SA pull is as good as anything I've ever shot, save maybe a Gold Cup. More importantly, they point more naturally for me than anything else. I'm leaning towards a Wright Armory EPS install on my 40 since it's the last grown up size pistol I have without a dot.

[JonInWA]

My 2 HKs (P30L V1.5 LEM and VP40) are two of the best guns fort me achieving a natural index with-both intrinsically and honed in with the tailorability of the backstraps and side panels. Plus their accuracy and build/component quality. Yeah, I know they're replete with MIM and stamped steel components, and that they're not hand forged out of asteroid steel alloy, but it's clearly high-quality MIM/stampings, which I'm totally fine with. And I've had stellar support from HK US Customer Support.

Best, Jon