Vogel Just posted a 2.98 FAST!!!!!!

[Prdator]

Just saw the video on FB ( don't know how to copy it here) But Robert Vogel did a 2.98 clean FAST......

And Just FYI....http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4033-Robert-Vogel-Practical-Pistol-Applications-July-21-22-in-Chandler-OK

[rsa-otc]

And the FAST wars have begun. Anyone care to guess how fast it's humanly possible to shoot the FAST test.

[TGS]

And the FAST wars have begun. Anyone care to guess how fast it's humanly possible to shoot the FAST test.

2.63 seconds.

[Ben Stoeger]

And the FAST wars have begun. Anyone care to guess how fast it's humanly possible to shoot the FAST test.

I am certain Bob will be able to put together a 2.75 if the fast wars keep going.

[beltjones]

I think you guys are just shooting fast and aren't doing things tactically correct. I think if you ran it correctly it would slow you down considerably. Just my opinion.

[jstyer]

I'm loving this!!!!

[MangPol]

I think you guys are just shooting fast and aren't doing things tactically correct. I think if you ran it correctly it would slow you down considerably. Just my opinion.


my FAST is at 6+ sec clean... would it mean I am more tactically correct than they are? or I am just really slow? ;)

[GOP]

I think you guys are just shooting fast and aren't doing things tactically correct. I think if you ran it correctly it would slow you down considerably. Just my opinion.

And their vests takes .2 seconds off of their times. It's ridiculous.

I literally thought I was awesome because I have shot a bunch of 4.1 FASTs and a 4.05 FAST clean. These guys are showing me up BIG TIME. Major props to them, I want to get their one day.

[TheRoland]

I think you guys are just shooting fast and aren't doing things tactically correct. I think if you ran it correctly it would slow you down considerably. Just my opinion.

I'm not sure what this means.

Edit: I think my sarcasm detector is broken.

[jlw]

I guess they will both have to do the test wearing down parkas and mittens at a distance of 25 yards from an IWB holster with retention to quiet some of the naysayers...

[theblacknight]

I think you guys are just shooting fast and aren't doing things tactically correct. I think if you ran it correctly it would slow you down considerably. Just my opinion.

I hope you're trollin

link please?

[GJM]

The person probably the most pleased of all is TLG -- as his FASTest is gaining popularity faster than a chia pet.

[GOP]

I hope you're trollin

link please?

He's joking. But I'm not. IDPA gear takes off at least .15-.2 on the timer, so these runs are illegitimate.

[Slavex]

Shot as per Todd's rules I'm going to guess sub 2.5 is a possible run. .65 draw or something and a clean sub 1 second reload you might even see close to 2 seconds from some of these guys. With non legal gear I'd bet sub 2 second could be done, especially once some Open guys start playing with this.

[GOP]

I honestly kind of think the standards should be tightened. I think a true expert score (as per IDPA division for example) is much closer to 4.0 seconds, maybe even 3.75. I'm just a IDPA MM and I consistently hit in the low 4's.

[DonovanM]

.65 from concealment, LOL, maybe if your idea of concealment is blurring the video. I can get a sight picture before .60 from my Production rig, but that's without any trigger manipulation and no way would it be a reliable shot on a 3x5 card. That is just about as fast as my hands can move. Your grip has to be a sure thing if you want to hit a .17 split on the card like Bob did. Add in sweeping a garment... I don't really think a .65 is humanly possible. Could be wrong though. Sub 1 second from concealment is doable for these guys I'd say. Maybe down to .9. Or at least possible for Bob, he's much better than Ben :)

[GJM]

Having shot some extremely fast runs in a relaxed setting, but also having shot MUCH worse, as in about two seconds slower when I had to perform right then at Todd's course, my reaction is that folks reporting what they did on their terms is interesting, but not necessarily predictive of what will happen on game day.

GOP, if it is so easy, why are there so few that have shot their two runs under 5 seconds at a course?

[GOP]

GOP, if it is so easy, why are there so few that have shot their two runs under 5 seconds at a course?

I'm not saying it is easy, but I do think that with enough practice it can be accomplished at a high rate. Me and a buddy of mine both shot the FAST in the 4.6's in competition (under stress, etc). I was at 4.61, he was 4.62. 2 Expert IDPA shooters were at 4.24 and 4.25 (it just turned out we were both within .01 of our friends lol). In fact, if my buddy hadn't messed up his reload a little, he could have easily hit a 4.3 or so.

[JohnN]

Having shot some extremely fast runs in a relaxed setting, but also having shot MUCH worse, as in about two seconds slower when I had to perform right then at Todd's course, my reaction is that folks reporting what they did on their terms is interesting, but not necessarily predictive of what will happen on game day.

GOP, if it is so easy, why are there so few that have shot their two runs under 5 seconds at a course?

I agree, big difference between shooting a FAST time in class and on your own without your peers watching.

[GJM]

I think we are on the same page, although I would add that the stress of doing it at Todd's course is far greater than regular competition, because while some compete every weekend, most do not get to shoot the FASTest at Todd's course but once every year or two. Now, if the FASTest was administered by others than Todd, and repeated frequently, I do agree that times would come down.

[jslaker]

Wow, this has gotten highly entertaining very quickly.

[Slavex]

.65 from concealment might be too much to expect but some of these guys are freaking lightning quick.

[JV_]

And Just FYI....http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4033-Robert-Vogel-Practical-Pistol-Applications-July-21-22-in-Chandler-OK

I really wish this was closer to VA, 20 hours of driving is a bit much...

Here is a link to his 2.98 run (1.15/.17/1.11/.19/.19/.17.):
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=351590484896154

Very nice run.

[Ga Shooter]

Here I am practically dreaming of getting to one of Todd's classes and being able to get a FAST Coin by shooting sub 5 sec. And now people are making sub 3 sec runs I really hope the rules don't change.:)

[orionz06]

He's joking. But I'm not. IDPA gear takes off at least .15-.2 on the timer, so these runs are illegitimate.


What specifically is he using that provides a significant advantage? Vest? Stiff belt? Not sure he used a race holster.

Not seeing any issues here.

[JV_]

IDPA gear takes off at least .15-.2 on the timer, so these runs are illegitimate.Specifically, which posted rule was violated? The rules are listed here: http://pistol-training.com/fastest

ToddG has also commented in a similar thread, Bob's 3.34 FAST run:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4031-Bob-Vogel-3-34-FAST&p=69130&viewfull=1#post69130

(edited to add: while I obviously wasn't there, at least in terms of equipment there's nothing in the video suggesting that anything is illegal; the SMF vest is fine, the pistol appears to be drawn from at or behind the centerline a la IDPA, as does the mag)

[rsa-otc]

He's joking. But I'm not. IDPA gear takes off at least .15-.2 on the timer, so these runs are illegitimate.

I don't know that adding .15-.2 diminishes Bob's accomplishment, that still is 3.18 clean if you add the high end to his 2.98. Bob's not even claiming that it is official. He's just thowing the gauntlet down for Ben, saying hey dude beat this and they both seem to be on equal ground equipment wise. Whether he does it in a PT class or on video it's just amazing. Shows us what's possible pushing the boundrys. Something to aspire to.

[LittleLebowski]

I like to see folks using this drill since it tests the important fundamentals. Really wish I could make Bob's class.

[JM Campbell]

Man I got a lot of practicing to do if these guys can smoke me twice while I'm just finishing one run.....sounds like fun trying to get there though.


I think some of us might be missing the point, anything is possible if you put the time and dedication in.....period. It is amazing what you can accomplish with a determined mind and focused practice. Take our fellow memmbers trip to Rodgers, one hell of a example to a foucused and determined group of shooters.

Hats off to you gents.

THE CEILING IS NOW THE FLOOR.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

[VolGrad]

What specifically is he using that provides a significant advantage? Vest? Stiff belt? Not sure he used a race holster.

Not seeing any issues here.

You beat me to the question here.

What exactly is IDPA gear? I mean I shoot IDPA too but so what? I have/do regularly carry the same gear I use for IDPA. That's kind of the point of IDPA .... using practical gear in practical "type" scenario based competition. Claims ppl are getting an unfair advantage by using vests for concealment, etc. are just plain absurd. Some people carry like that (not me).

Besides, if it's such an advantage then put on your IDPA gear and concealment vest and beat their score.

[bdcheung]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=351590484896154

[beltjones]

I agree, big difference between shooting a FAST time in class and on your own without your peers watching.

Bob and Ben are used to shooting for much higher stakes than a FAST coin, believe it or not. I don't mean that as a slight to Todd in any way. But let's examine facts - I don't know Ben's stats, but I know Bob won two National Championships (IDPA and USPSA) and two World Championships (IDPA and IPSC) without shooting a single miss all year in 2011. That is especially impressive if you look at the size of the IPSC targets and the difficulty of a lot of the shots at the world shoot (really fast swingers at 20+ yards with only partial exposures).

Both of these guys are world class shooters who compete against the best in the world for the most prestigious titles. I'm sorry, but I think they have the tools to cope with the pressure of standing next to an instructor.

[orionz06]

You beat me to the question here.

What exactly is IDPA gear? I mean I shoot IDPA too but so what? I have/do regularly carry the same gear I use for IDPA. That's kind of the point of IDPA .... using practical gear in practical "type" scenario based competition. Claims ppl are getting an unfair advantage by using vests for concealment, etc. are just plain absurd. Some people carry like that (not me).

Besides, if it's such an advantage then put on your IDPA gear and concealment vest and beat their score.

One could make the case that AIWB provides a time advantage over strong side carry.

[JV_]

One could make the case that AIWB provides a time advantage over strong side carry.I find that any draw time advantage AIWB offers is erased when it comes to reloading from the closed front shirt.

[beltjones]

One could make the case that AIWB provides a time advantage over strong side carry.

One's main piece of evidence would be that OrigamiAK dude. Holy smokes is he fast out of the holster!

[orionz06]

I find that any draw time advantage AIWB offers is erased when it comes to reloading from the closed front shirt.

I don't disagree, I was just rolling along with the other absurd ideas.

[jstyer]

.65 from concealment might be too much to expect but some of these guys are freaking lightning quick.

I have almost no experience even watching these competition guys... But that being said, I just don't see how you could get off a faster first shot than Bob did in this video. It looks like the gun is still travelling upwards into his line of sight on that 1st 3x5 shot. I would think that the limitations of vertical height on a 3x5 card would make it nearly impossible to nail that 1st shot any faster and to be honest, I'm pretty blown away that he even managed to hit it in this video! But like I said, this is pretty nearly the first time I've seen this level of performance.

Had you asked me a week ago if a sub 3 second fast was possible... I'm not so sure I would've said yes.

[LittleLebowski]

I wish these videos weren't limited to FB.

[JV_]

I wish these videos weren't limited to FB.They're not. The link I provided works without a FB login.

[LittleLebowski]

They're not. The link I provided works without a FB login.

OK, gotcha. I'll view later from a place that doesn't block FB.

[joshs]

Bob and Ben are used to shooting for much higher stakes than a FAST coin . . .

It isn't only pressure that's the problem, it's the fact that there aren't any do overs. Do you see a difference between what you will do in a match that you want to win and what you can achieve in practice? If the FAST (and it's current penalty structure) were a stage in a match, would you shoot it as fast you thought you could possible shoot a clean run or at a speed where you could guarantee a clean run?

Look at El Prez, which has a much less punishing penalty structure. I've seen lots of people who can shoot close to a 4 second El Prez, but whenever they shoot it as a classifier, their times are usually between 5 and 6 seconds.

[beltjones]

It isn't only pressure that's the problem, it's the fact that there aren't any do overs. Do you see a difference between what you will do in a match that you want to win and what you can achieve in practice? If the FAST (and it's current penalty structure) were a stage in a match, would you shoot it as fast you thought you could possible shoot a clean run or at a speed where you could guarantee a clean run?

Look at El Prez, which has a much less punishing penalty structure. I've seen lots of people who can shoot close to a 4 second El Prez, but whenever they shoot it as a classifier, their times are usually between 5 and 6 seconds.

That's a very good point. Bob even wrote that it was his 2nd and 4th attempts that yielded the best (clean) result that day, so obviously these guys are really pushing in terms of speed.

Maybe Ben could tell us how much he thinks he would back off the time if this were "for real" and he had to guarantee hits.

[Ben Stoeger]

Bob and Ben are used to shooting for much higher stakes than a FAST coin, believe it or not.

Both of these guys are world class shooters who compete against the best in the world for the most prestigious titles. I'm sorry, but I think they have the tools to cope with the pressure of standing next to an instructor.

2 points.

First, I am not sure what higher stakes there are... but that is just me.

Second, some instructors make me really nervous. I am also just kind of nervous by nature.

[Ben Stoeger]

It isn't only pressure that's the problem, it's the fact that there aren't any do overs. Do you see a difference between what you will do in a match that you want to win and what you can achieve in practice? If the FAST (and it's current penalty structure) were a stage in a match, would you shoot it as fast you thought you could possible shoot a clean run or at a speed where you could guarantee a clean run?

Look at El Prez, which has a much less punishing penalty structure. I've seen lots of people who can shoot close to a 4 second El Prez, but whenever they shoot it as a classifier, their times are usually between 5 and 6 seconds.

I personally would be happy with 6 seconds on the FAST in a high pressure situation.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Nothing like Todd standing right next to you saying "no pressure." I do well myself on the FAST until class time comes then rest assured, you can add 1.5 seconds to my score. You can set you watch by it.

[JV_]

IIRC - My fastest cold FAST was done at the Free Pistol/Carbine Clinic for Veterans (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2103-Free-Pistol-Carbine-Clinic-for-Veterans-Friday-11-Nov-Culpeper-VA), I was not shooting but helping out. That was a clean 5.05.

[TCinVA]

A sub three second FAST is impressive, but I don't think there is a danger of Todd going broke handing out coins or running out of room on the wall of fame.

[beltjones]

Here's a thought:

The guys with the fastest times on this drill also happen to be the world's best USPSA shooters. I would include IDPA, but Ben doesn't shoot IDPA.

Why would that be? Why not the guys that practice this drill the most? You could make the argument that Ben, Bob, Dave, et al are just naturally the best, and that makes them the best at whatever they do. I doubt they would agree with that.

Todd has consistently said that the way to shoot the FAST fast is not to run it over and over again, but to practice and perfect the different aspects of the drill.

So what's going on here?

USPSA requires shooters to be prepared to handle an incredible variety of shooting challenges, from tight shots on distant moving targets to multiple strong hand and weak hand Bill drills on some classifiers. At the world shoot they had to tie one hand to a cart while shooting a stage; one's confidence with shooting and gun handling has to be pretty good to not freak out when presented with that. The point is, the argument that these guys train themselves to the point that they can only shoot two rounds on each target, that they need a race holster and a fancy belt, and that they aren't as accurate as the "tactical" guys just doesn't hold water. The variety of challenges they have to prepare for to be at the top of the USPSA game also prepares them to be the best at shooting from concealment and hitting lighting quick emergency reloads, two things you rarely see at a USPSA match. Simply put, the shooting and gun handling skills necessary to move to the top of USPSA translate to any type of pistol shooting drill, and those who disdain that type of shooting for not being "tactical" enough or for ingraining bad habits are missing the boat entirely.

Sure, it's easy to say that someone can shoot the FAST in 3.5 seconds or faster because he is a "robot mutant cyborg" or whatever, but it's probably more accurate to say that he has just put in better, smarter work. Maybe these guys do have a chip implanted in their brains, or maybe USPSA really prepares people to just plain shoot. Can anyone really doubt that at this point?

[beltjones]

A sub three second FAST is impressive, but I don't think there is a danger of Todd going broke handing out coins or running out of room on the wall of fame.

I agree. As long as you have to take a class in order for the run to be valid, there is very little danger of overcrowding on the FAST wall.

[JV_]

I agree. As long as you have to take a class in order for the run to be valid, there is very little danger of overcrowding on the FAST wall.

Actually, it's not just a class.

http://pistol-training.com/fastest

Only scores earned during a pistol-training.com class or similar ptc-recognized event are eligible for record status or winning a F.A.S.T. Challenge Coin.

[NickA]

A sub three second FAST is impressive, but I don't think there is a danger of Todd going broke handing out coins or running out of room on the wall of fame.

I just hope there's room for three digits on the coin #, he'll need the room by the time I get there ;)

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[GJM]

I personally would be happy with 6 seconds on the FAST in a high pressure situation.

Since this is not in person, it is hard to know how much you are smiling as you say this. Can you estimate the difference between your relaxed, best time on a drill like this with multiple attempts allowed, and your time if you absolutely needed to do it clean twice in a row, on demand?

[rsa-otc]

With all do respect to Ben & Dave; given what I've seen of these guys I think you would see sub 5 in competition. I did it at a match in 5.1 and that was with a t-shirt covered target. Suprisingly it was my best time to date and I felt in control. I'm so far out of these guys league that I find it hard that they wouldn't crush my time.

[GOP]

Guys, I was being VERY sarcastic talking about gear. Sorry that it wasn't more obvious.

Those runs are unbelievable. I thought it was quiet hilarious how everyone was mentioning gear on 3.24, 3.11, and 2.98 runs. Obviously Belt was being sarcastic too.

[Cowtown44]

It isn't only pressure that's the problem, it's the fact that there aren't any do overs. Do you see a difference between what you will do in a match that you want to win and what you can achieve in practice? If the FAST (and it's current penalty structure) were a stage in a match, would you shoot it as fast you thought you could possible shoot a clean run or at a speed where you could guarantee a clean run?

Look at El Prez, which has a much less punishing penalty structure. I've seen lots of people who can shoot close to a 4 second El Prez, but whenever they shoot it as a classifier, their times are usually between 5 and 6 seconds.

joshs, what are the penalties?

[MEH]

joshs, what are the penalties?

As a FAST test the rules are on the official target (http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/fast-target.pdf).

As the classifier part of KSTG it's scored like any other target in the KSTG match (http://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=365&d=1324962612)...

[Suvorov]

Suddenly, my closing in on the consistent sub-7 FAST is a little less pride inducing :o

[TGS]

Suddenly, my closing in on the consistent sub-7 FAST is a little less pride inducing :o

It's okay, I'm there with you buddy. My best clean time to date is 7.06. That's down from 8.43 last year, so according to the FAST my skills are improving.

[ummm]

That was the fastest production reload I have ever seen -- concealment be darned

[beltjones]

That was the fastest production reload I have ever seen -- concealment be darned

Did you see Ben's run? His reload was under a second.

[ummm]

Did you see Ben's run? His reload was under a second.

Was it? I didn't see the numbers -- where are they posted? That's awesome!

[CCT125US]

Did anyone else notice the sound of the braying donkey at the 15 second mark? Gotta love Wapakoneta , Ohio, go bucks....

[SecondsCount]

Did anyone else notice the sound of the braying donkey at the 15 second mark. Gotta love Wapakanetta , Ohio, go bucks....

Yes, my neighbor down the road has a donkey and when I was listening to the video I thought it was him at first.

[LOKNLOD]

Did anyone else notice the sound of the braying donkey at the 15 second mark? Gotta love Wapakoneta , Ohio, go bucks....

I was hoping it meant he was shooting a democrat somewhere downrange...

[Dropkick]

The video needs a slo-mo replay. :)

[Cowtown44]

The video needs a slo-mo replay. :)

I showed it to my wife and she immediately told me to take it off fast forward!

[Mr_White]

One's main piece of evidence would be that OrigamiAK dude. Holy smokes is he fast out of the holster!

Thanks for the props bro, seriously!

I think there may be an economy of motion advantage to AIWB especially with a hands down start. In the past, I've shared the view that there is a big tradeoff with the reload from a closed front shirt. Since I adopted the more conventional support side OWB mag pouches though, I've been practicing my slidelock reload more and the times are dropping compared to where I was with that wacky double-front-IWB thing I used to run. I saw a bunch of 1.2x slidelock reloads in dry fire yesterday and today, but that was in dry fire...


FWIW and IIRC, Todd has reported that Dave Sevigny said something similar -- that with the FAST penalty structure, he'd shoot it around 6 seconds in competition.

That is very interesting to hear. I've found it very hard to shoot sub-5 in even a minor pressure situation.

I am very affected by stress. I'm still trying to work that out. I have nerves of butter sometimes and I melt. I have no illusions of any sub-4 run with Todd standing next to me for the only official chance at the FAST I'll have for a very long time.

So I'm curious if the videos we are seeing from Vogel and Stoeger are representative of speeds at which they can 'guarantee' the hits? I guess that's almost the same question as 'what speed would you shoot this in competition?' although I wonder if that question might hinge more on the stress of competition, as opposed to being purely an issue of 'guaranteed hits' vs. 'pretty likely hits' without regard to the stress issue.


Did anyone else notice the sound of the braying donkey at the 15 second mark? Gotta love Wapakoneta , Ohio, go bucks....

Yeah, that was funny, especially on Vogel's facebook page where he said it sounded like a dinosaur. It was like the donkey knew awesome shooting when he heard it.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Did anyone else notice the sound of the braying donkey at the 15 second mark? Gotta love Wapakoneta , Ohio, go bucks....
Dude, I just don't know if I'd brag about that and I'm from southern Ohio. :cool:

[Ben Stoeger]

So I'm curious if the videos we are seeing from Vogel and Stoeger are representative of speeds at which they can 'guarantee' the hits? I guess that's almost the same question as 'what speed would you shoot this in competition?' although I wonder if that question might hinge more on the stress of competition, as opposed to being purely an issue of 'guaranteed hits' vs. 'pretty likely hits' without regard to the stress issue.


Shooting at a pace where I can guarantee anything will pretty much only guarantee I wont be winning the match. If you aren't fast, it doesn't matter how accurate you are.

[DonovanM]

Shooting at a pace where I can guarantee anything will pretty much only guarantee I wont be winning the match. If you aren't fast, it doesn't matter how accurate you are.

How do you balance that with the ruthless consistency it takes to shoot 94% of the points available at a match?

Or am I asking for the entire game in a nutshell? LOL

[Ben Stoeger]

How do you balance that with the ruthless consistency it takes to shoot 94% of the points available at a match?

Or am I asking for the entire game in a nutshell? LOL

It isn't really about balance of one versus the other. Just apply the techniques to get the points you need in the lowest possible time. I do not agree with the school of thought that says you trade accuracy for speed or you can slow down and then just be more accurate. It really doesn't work that way.

[JeffJ]

Ben,
If I'm understanding you (which is doubtfu) what you're talking about is directly related to calling your shots and then being able to instantly or possibly subconsiously determne if that shot was good enough for the situation at hand? As opposed to trying to determine the necessary accuracy going into a target and slowing down or speeding up based on the relative "easyness" or "hardness" of the target.

[GOP]

Shooting at a pace where I can guarantee anything will pretty much only guarantee I wont be winning the match. If you aren't fast, it doesn't matter how accurate you are.

That's a great point.

I could tell from reviewing my times from the last major that I was shooting too slow for accuracy and it cost me a lot of time. WAY MORE than if I would have dropped more points shooting at my naturally faster pace.

[Ben Stoeger]

Ben,
If I'm understanding you (which is doubtfu) what you're talking about is directly related to calling your shots and then being able to instantly or possibly subconsiously determne if that shot was good enough for the situation at hand? As opposed to trying to determine the necessary accuracy going into a target and slowing down or speeding up based on the relative "easyness" or "hardness" of the target.

I am not really talking about shot calling. What I am saying is that you apply the techniques to get the points you need in the fastest time. On a 5 yard target you may just see your sights on the target and then let 2 shots go. On a 10 yard target you may look through the sights and shoot. On a 25 yard target you might use a hard front sight focus and be extremely careful with your trigger control.

The point is that shooting a 25 yard target like it is a 5 yard target or the other way around will completely screw you. To be a good USPSA shooter you need to learn to shoot all types of targets as efficiently as possible and then swiftly transition between target types. It takes quite awhile to get all that down.

[Mr_White]

I am not really talking about shot calling. What I am saying is that you apply the techniques to get the points you need in the fastest time. On a 5 yard target you may just see your sights on the target and then let 2 shots go. On a 10 yard target you may look through the sights and shoot. On a 25 yard target you might use a hard front sight focus and be extremely careful with your trigger control.

The point is that shooting a 25 yard target like it is a 5 yard target or the other way around will completely screw you. To be a good USPSA shooter you need to learn to shoot all types of targets as efficiently as possible and then swiftly transition between target types. It takes quite awhile to get all that down.

Thanks for sharing your point of view on this stuff.

I practice an awful lot of core gunhandling skills and shoot as much as I can afford, but it's all been oriented around short exercises that one might consider relevant for self-defense training. I've shot two USPSA matches so far and have been quite struck at how burdensome it is to deal with the monumental amount of serial tasking that there is in a USPSA stage.

[m91196]

It isn't really about balance of one versus the other. Just apply the techniques to get the points you need in the lowest possible time. I do not agree with the school of thought that says you trade accuracy for speed or you can slow down and then just be more accurate. It really doesn't work that way.

That sums it up.
Just add your own hard work and sacrifice and you can be a GM.
Maybe.
Thanks for the insite Ben.

[NEPAKevin]

I agree. As long as you have to take a class in order for the run to be valid, there is very little danger of overcrowding on the FAST wall.

What if there were a little more incentive for multiple sub-three second runs?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UNe2GJ_8XJE/T7VnsNE1D_I/AAAAAAAAAGI/nICfzDl29BI/s128/FAST_U1.JPG?gl=US

:)

[EmanP]

Hot damn! The race is on! This is better than Moto GP!

[dgg9]

Necropost: just saw on Facebook where Bob Vogel shot a 2.1 sec FAST test but not from concealment (so add .5 sec?).

https://www.facebook.com/robert.g.vogel?hc_ref=ARRpNDusYzHxEmelm8gHuhvWj1Sw fBqBcELEjje8B2zqw-7ZeOOW6Kn-4oB599dLMs0

...not sure how to extract the video w/o FB.

[LOKNLOD]

1594786260576564

Impressive shooting, no doubt. However, it doesn’t look to be anywhere near 7 yards. The text posted with the video makes reference to an “ultra speed fast drill”. I have no idea what that is, but I suspect it’s variant of the FAST shot at 3 yards and from competition gear.

ETA: despite the video being listed as public, it doesn’t embed. Not sure what the deal is with that.

There's been a thing about about these 3-yard ultra fast drills going on faceyspace. Tim Herron worked hard to get under 3 i think it was.

[taadski]

Here’s Tim’s video below. 2.44. And it doesn’t look like 3 yards to me. But let’s calculate... Tim is approximately 5’0” tall. 😅 That’s at least 3 body lengths. So I’m calling it at least 5 yards. 😈


Regardless, it’s some pretty smoking shooting. And quite an impressive necro-post, going way back to the days when Ben was a member! Classic PF drama right there!




https://youtu.be/yBpodSLfSIA

[dgg9]

Impressive shooting, no doubt. However, it doesn’t look to be anywhere near 7 yards.

His FB post was updated. The "ultraFAST" is indeed 3 yards.