Nostalgia/comfort/experience versus new tech guns

[Sanch]

As I’m getting into my 40s I realize lately my sense of logic is leaning towards nostalgia and comfort and avoiding new things. For example my first shotgun was a 590 and I look at 1301s and think they’re super neato but I don’t really want one. Even if I had unlimited money I don’t have unlimited time and I barely shoot my 590 as is so now I’d have to maintain proficiency in two separate shotgun systems. No bueno.

My first glock was a gen 3 and I skipped 4 because I heard bad things and didn’t see the need and now people are saying gen 5 is a huge improvement but I don’t really wanna sell mine and change.

I learnt shooting AR with iron sights and adopted aim points as soon as they came down in price and were reliable but when it comes to pistol red dots, I tense up a bit and don’t wanna. I’m not sure if it’s because I was younger when I got the aimpoint in my AR and now I’m older and more resistant to change or my vision still let’s me see irons just fine, or if I logically see the tradeoffs for red dots on pistols and am correctly concerned it’s not worth the money, the effort, the added bulk and weight to carry, the added battery maintenance. Lots of respectable folk like red dots on pistols so my assumption is I’m wrong.

I look at newish guns like the skorpion smg and think, meh, whatever, it looks cool but I don’t really want to deal with buying 20 spare mags, some spare parts, learning how to use it, zeroing it with different ammo types, dry firing it, taking it to the range, adding an optic, adding a light, adding a sling. Jeez I’m tired just typing it.

I think about skills I lack like rimfire precision shooting, center fire precision shooting, 50 and 100 yard handgun shooting and that excites me but the new guns I’ve lost interest in.maybe I’m burnt out because I can’t just go into something lightly, it becomes a consuming project with dozens of spare mags, parts, accessories, zeroing, learning offsets, etc and to be honest I don’t train with the guns I already have enough.

So here’s why I’m posting this. For advice on how do I know if I’m becoming an old fuddy duddy that is the equivalent of a 80 year man in the year 1920 carrying flintlock revolvers into combat? Or, no offense intended, the 50 year old officers in the 1980s that still carried revolvers. Yes, I realize most of them could outshoot some of their younger semi-auto wielding rookie cops but even the best revolver enthusiast will admit semi autos are better than revolvers for LE duty work.

I’m sure both of those two example men were hesitant to change, and they would have their excuses/ reasons. And they probably could outshoot their younger counterparts with newer tech guns. But maybe my hesitance to switching to gen 5 glocks and 1301s is just be becoming old and resistant to change.

How do we handle this as we age? Maybe the upgrade from gen 3 to gen 5 glock and 590 to 1301 isn’t world shattering. Not like the upgrade from flintlock to centerfiered guns. But I’ll probably] be on this planet and looking at new gun technology for another 30 or more years, God-willing, Cervaza-sickness willing and Democrats-willing if they haven’t banned guns yet. So as I ave and get resistant to change how do I know if I’m making the right choice or if my instincts are failing me for nostalgia or comfort reasons?

[OlongJohnson]

You've come to understand and actually internalized Clusterfrack's statement that new guns are an expensive, time-consuming pain in the ass.

Nothing wrong with that.

[peterb]

Can you do what you want to do with what you've got?

Are you comfortable and competent with what you've got?

Is what you've got reliable and serviceable?

If yes, don't waste time worrying about the latest new thing you "should" have.

[YVK]

How do we handle this as we age?

We realize that, while we have everything we need for our purposes, we're mortal and if there's something we wanna try in life, we have less time than we think.

[rob_s]

I kind of think of these things like a rubberband. You can plant your flag in guns and gear from one particular year, but time will continue to move forward. That gun and gear will slowly get less and less competitive over time, and the longer you wait the harder the stretch. This is true of other hobbies and associated equipment as well.

If not “competing” in terms of gun games, then maybe it doesn’t matter. You get all nostalgic and decide to cross-draw carry a Model 19 revolver, it isn’t very likely that (a) you’re actually going to get into a gunfight or (b) that your choice of gun and carry position are going to affect the outcome. More important is whether you know how to use it.

Classes can become a challenge, to a certain degree. If you decided that the A-team was your go to for guns and gear selection and invested heavily in the Ruger Mini-14, when you get to a carbine class where everyone else is shooting ARs there may be some techniques being taught that are particular to that platform, and you’ll also lose the benefit of being able to rely on fellow students for advice or spare parts.

I will say this, as someone that has jumped in and out of competition shooting, particularly carbine, over the years... there is a great amount of satisfaction to be had in showing up with old-busted, finding all the shooters are running new-hotness, and beating most of the field.

[2xAGM114]

I’ll probably] be on this planet and looking at new gun technology for another 30 or more years, God-willing, Cervaza-sickness willing and Democrats-willing if they haven’t banned guns yet. So as I ave and get resistant to change how do I know if I’m making the right choice or if my instincts are failing me for nostalgia or comfort reasons?

The underlying factor is that life experience has taught us that "the new hotness" (gun, car, iPhone, whatever) is only new for a time, and there will always be something newer that comes after it. You've mastered a manual of arms that accomplishes what you need it to, reliably and without fanfare. The same life experience tells us that instead of spending money and time on another new flashy trend, mastering the one that we have now and that works makes us better, more consistent, and experienced shooters. Your instincts aren't failing, they're prevailing.

In a nutshell, that's wisdom.

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/podcast-583-how-to-stay-mentally-sharp-and-fulfilled-as-you-age/

[NH Shooter]

I showed up at a Rob Pincus training about 10 years with my factory-tuned S&W 5906. Of course everyone else was using a Tupperware pistol (mostly Glocks) and Mr. Pincus made an immediate comment on my gear selection. I shoot the heavy, all-metal throw-back as well as any other pistol I've owned so keeping up was not an issue. In fact, it was quite gratifying that at the end Mr. Pincus acknowledged my competence with it.

I carry a PPS Classic because it's lighter and smaller, I can shoot it well and I do not get upset over the wear and tear it suffers. The 5906 remains a showroom-condition safe queen, mostly because I want to preserve it. I remain tempted though to place an order for a Milt Sparks 55BN, just because.


https://i.ibb.co/6w8WdTC/5906-1.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/856c52p/5906-2.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/1GSLmdB/5906-3.jpg

[Rosco Benson]

Sometimes you just want something. Even if it doesn't fill a rational need. After decades of shooting, I decided to get a Colt SAA last year. I cannot give any rationale for getting it. It doesn't do anything better...or even as well...as other stuff I have.

I just plain wanted it.

[NH Shooter]

I remain tempted though to place an order for a Milt Sparks 55BN, just because.

Order placed. :-)

Brown cowhide, FBI cant, 15 - 20 weeks.

[Totem Polar]

Once you have your "tools," everything else is just a want. I bought way more single-action revolvers than I have polymer over the last 5 years or so. DA revolvers too, come to think of it.

[Trooper224]

I showed up at a Rob Pincus training about 10 years with my factory-tuned S&W 5906. Of course everyone else was using a Tupperware pistol (mostly Glocks) and Mr. Pincus made an immediate comment on my gear selection. I shoot the heavy, all-metal throw-back as well as any other pistol I've owned so keeping up was not an issue. In fact, it was quite gratifying that at the end Mr. Pincus acknowledged my competence with it.

I carry a PPS Classic because it's lighter and smaller, I can shoot it well and I do not get upset over the wear and tear it suffers. The 5906 remains a showroom-condition safe queen, mostly because I want to preserve it. I remain tempted though to place an order for a Milt Sparks 55BN, just because.


https://i.ibb.co/6w8WdTC/5906-1.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/856c52p/5906-2.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/1GSLmdB/5906-3.jpg

Pure awesomeness.

[Mitch]

I think the OP's point is perfectly reasonable. Even just putting new sights on my gun means a trip to the range to rezero. That's time (that I don't have a lot of), ammo, and specifically training time that's basically wasted because I know how to shoot a group at this point so I'm not "learning" a whole lot or sharpening anything that couldn't be done at home with dry fire. And for what? A reasonable improvement in any of my scores or ability? Well...no.

Then if we're talking about a new gun, that's even more time to vet it. Nah, I'm good thanks.

That's assuming we're talking about defensive tools. On the other hand, firearms CAN be fun. So if you want a new rifle, shotgun, or pistol to enjoy? Rock on.

[Trooper224]

Order placed. :-)

Brown cowhide, FBI cant, 15 - 20 weeks.

I'm jealous. I'm lusting for an early 5906 to go with my 4506.

In reality, the guns that will serve their intended purpose are legion compared to the ones that won't. I have a Colt Army Special .38 in my safe that's over one hundred years old. The finish is a bit thin as I'm sure it was some old cops gun. But, it's perfect mechanically and I'm also sure it would serve as well as any equivalent new .38 found on the shelf of any gun shop, maybe even better. Considering how little the average gun owner shoots their weapon, even some of the lower tier offerings will, in all likelihood, work just fine. I can't remember how many used guns I've run across that came from the early twentieth century, that were fired a few times then spent half a century in a sock drawer. Even something like a Hi-point should do the job in that context. Around here we tend to chase the far end of the curve, often simply for the fun of the chase rather than any real need. If the old guns still works and works well for you, there's often no real need to change.

[HCM]

Once you have your "tools," everything else is just a want. I bought way more single-action revolvers than I have polymer over the last 5 years or so. DA revolvers too, come to think of it.

Familiarity has benefits but it is only part of the equation.

If you really treat them as “tools” then tools evolve into better, more effective tools. Would you go to a Doctor who did not keep up with the current state of medical practice? You can still pretty reliably diagnose diabetics by tasting their pee for sweetness but it is no longer a preferred method.

I started with Glocks in 1989 with a Gen 1. Fact is the Gen4/5s, particularly the latest Gen 5s with the new breech face cut are the “best” guns Glock has ever made. “Best” meaning the most reliable, most efficiently operating and mechanically accurate guns they have ever made. Accuracy, cycling, ejection pattern are all quantifiable improvements.

The Gen4/5 are also more user friendly in terms of grip size and texture, as well as the factory beavertail option. As someone who spent years getting cut up by Glock Gen 1-3 slides that last is pretty significant to me.

The addition of “enablers” like optics, losers etc to the 1950s vintage AR is another example of tools evolving into quantifiable improved performance.

Re: shotguns, even well Practiced users will occasionally short stroke a pump gun or have other issues. Someone who “hardly shoots” their pump gun would be better served with a semi auto.

Old tools can work but that doesn’t mean they are necessarily the best tool for the job. You remember cars needing tune ups and new tires every 20,000 miles ? I do. Old cars are cool and will get you from A to B but an Accord or a Camry will do it cheaper and easier.

[Totem Polar]

Familiarity has benefits but it is only part of the equation.

If you really treat them as “tools” then tools evolve into better, more effective tools..

That is true. I must not have been as clear as I could have. I have gen 5 Glocks. All I was saying is once you have your tools, everything else is a want. I don't personally need more than a few Glocks. Rather than stocking 15 Gen 5 Glocks, a couple will suffice, so I can also have Blackhawks, and Cobras, and 3" K-frames, and color case hardened lever guns, and .22 magnum pumps and...

Now, if someone *loves* gen 5 Glocks, and wants one in every size and color, no problem by me. That’s their "want." JMO.

[Borderland]

I just purchased my first polymer pistol about 4 months ago because I was curious about them. I have a number of revolvers and 1911's, probably way more than most people, so I'm pretty much stuck in the first half of the 20th century. New stuff generally doesn't interest me a lot, not because I don't like innovation, but because there hasn't been a lot of innovation in firearms for a very long time. Polymer (IMO) is about the only thing that stands out as being innovative so I had to try at least one. I have to say I was pleasantly surprised but now that I know about it I'm just going to relapse back into time where I feel comfortable and try to keep my skill set up with what I already have. New stuff just requires more time to master and I just don't see where I've gained much of anything when I do.

[Borderland]

Old tools can work but that doesn’t mean they are necessarily the best tool for the job. You remember cars needing tune ups and new tires every 20,000 miles ? I do. Old cars are cool and will get you from A to B but an Accord or a Camry will do it cheaper and easier.

I have to comment on your tool analogy here. I think we have to break this down into different categories. Regarding pistols, not everyone sees them as tools. For instance, I look at my chainsaw as a tool and nothing more. It's something to do work with. Most LEO's that I know look at their service pistol in the same manner, so you would be correct on that one. Then there's hunters. They don't look at their firearms as strictly tools. If they did there wouldn't be so many black powder hunters. That for sure isn't the most efficient tool to harvest a deer with, yet many hunters enjoy the challenge. Then theirs rec shooters. I see all kinds of different types of firearms on the range. For instance, I ran across a guy the other day with 45-70 Martini rifle. His big thrill was ringing steel at 200 yds. Is that the best 'tool" for ringing steel at 200 yds, not hardly. I like to do it with a 22 rifle just to prove to people that it can be done. So 2 of the 3 categories of shooters here can get a long way from your tool analogy.

I didn't mention people who buy firearms for SD because most of those I don't consider shooters. My experience is they don't train and they don't shoot for recreation so I just left them out. I know a lot of people here combine SD and rec shooting but I don't think that's the majority of the compact 9mm/SD shotgun crowd.

[RevolverRob]

I have to comment on your tool analogy here. I think we have to break this down into different categories. Regarding pistols, not everyone sees them as tools. [snip]

An excellent point.

I think there is a reality to this statement that many, like myself, enjoy firearms. Shooting them, owning them, collecting them, building them, sometimes just admiring them.

I actually admire and own many beautiful things that surpass in costs and efforts to make the purely "tool" level of need. A $30 Kershaw folding knife will pretty much do everything that a $250 Emerson or a $500 Sebenza will do. So, why buy a Sebenza? Why buy a custom folder that costs even more? Because I like it it, that's why.

Similarly, with pistols, pretty much all modern service-grade handguns are closely matched. When we (as in the P-F we) explore the differences in them, we're talking 1% of 1% of shooters who are exploring the limits of their guns add in Enos and it's maybe 2% of 1% who are chasing an elite level of performance where minute differences matter. I'm not at that level and I shoot pretty much all pistols equally well (or poorly, depending on your perspective). So, I simply go with what I have the most repetitions with as a platform, because reps = comfort and confidence. Because these differences are fairly small between guns, chasing platforms isn't really the way to go and thus it's no big deal if you don't feel a longing for something new.

That said - it is important to stop and critically evaluate the range of options and your skills once in awhile and determine if you're better suited for/with something else.

Self-Example: As much as I like lever guns and pump shotguns. I've got an AR next to the bed and I'm going to trade a pump (or two) in on a 1301T soon, because I can see the value in a soft(er) shooting semi-auto shotgun. Pistol wise, I'm fine with 1911s as my primary, but the secondary gun(s) as J-Frames/Snub Revolvers is undergoing evaluation right now as I take a look at the sub-compact handgun market and try to critically evaluate my needs and wants.

[mmc45414]

I am a bit older than you and have just recently had a bit of an evolution, and maybe at least one epiphany. I do like guns, and like lots of different guns, but have settled in a bit on having fewer types. For example, I decided there was no reason to have more than one brand/type of striker fired auto, and settled into M&Ps. I have a number of them, in various sizes, mostly in 9mm but still have two in 45 and one in 40. For reasons I will probably buy a few more M&Ps, but will stay in that lane in regard to striker guns.

And I like 1911s, and have a few in 45 and a couple in 9mm, and want some more. I do not consider getting another 1911 (or M&P) to really be like getting a new gun, because it is the same as many of my others. So I will end up getting some more of them.

And I like revolvers, especially J-Frames, have several and do want some more. I like these because I like them. Will probably stay/remain mostly focused on 38/357.

And I like rifles and this is where I think I "need" more. But I am still not going to go crazy, at least by my frame of reference.

But my epiphany is in regard to shotguns. I enjoy skeet and sporting clays, and a bit of hunting, and I have all those bases covered. And I recently sold my 870 after I admitted to myself that I really do not like pump shotguns. After also selling an 1100 I had I saved up some more and was poised to buy a 1301 when it occurred to me that I really do not need a dedicated defensive shotgun. It was going to be $1200-$1600 wrapped up in something I would probably almost never use, and I pumped the brakes. Not saying I will never ever get one, but I have a bunch of 1911s and rifles to get first.

[HCM]

I have to comment on your tool analogy here. I think we have to break this down into different categories. Regarding pistols, not everyone sees them as tools. For instance, I look at my chainsaw as a tool and nothing more. It's something to do work with. Most LEO's that I know look at their service pistol in the same manner, so you would be correct on that one. Then there's hunters. They don't look at their firearms as strictly tools. If they did there wouldn't be so many black powder hunters. That for sure isn't the most efficient tool to harvest a deer with, yet many hunters enjoy the challenge. Then theirs rec shooters. I see all kinds of different types of firearms on the range. For instance, I ran across a guy the other day with 45-70 Martini rifle. His big thrill was ringing steel at 200 yds. Is that the best 'tool" for ringing steel at 200 yds, not hardly. I like to do it with a 22 rifle just to prove to people that it can be done. So 2 of the 3 categories of shooters here can get a long way from your tool analogy.

I didn't mention people who buy firearms for SD because most of those I don't consider shooters. My experience is they don't train and they don't shoot for recreation so I just left them out. I know a lot of people here combine SD and rec shooting but I don't think that's the majority of the compact 9mm/SD shotgun crowd.

I divide my guns into tools/work guns and shoot for fun guns.

As much as I love my 5 inch in frames a 1911’s they are not serious use tools anymore. They are a personal hobby.

The OP talked about his guns as tools but then does everything but treat them that way.

Sticking with Glocks, if picking tools for my people to win gun fights and save lives with why would I stick with Gen 3s when I could get them Gen 4/5 that have grips that fit their hands better, have a grippier texture making them easier to shoot well etc ?

[RevolverRob]

I divide my guns into tools/work guns and shoot for fun guns.

As much as I love my 5 inch in frames a 1911’s they are not serious use tools anymore.

The OP talked about his guns as tools but then does everything but treat them that way.

Sticking with Glocks, if picking tools for my people to win gun fights and save lives with why would I stick with Gen 3s when I could get them Gen 4/5 that have grips that fit their hands better, have a grippier texture making them easier to shoot well etc ?

What is a "serious use tool" in your definition?

I mean that not to pick a fight, but to understand what your frame of reference is.

[HCM]

What is a "serious use tool" in your definition?

I mean that not to pick a fight, but to understand what your frame of reference is.

Duty guns. Both for myself and for my people. That includes the whole bell curve not just those that are “like me” whether that means into guns, hand size etc.

Secondary definition would be guns for carry or defensive use.

If I had to hunt for sustenance rather than recreation it would include hunting guns.

People get all nostalgic about leverguns and revolvers but they were the premier fighting tools of their time.

Look at photos of the TX Rangers from the late 1800s and early 1900s. When the ‘73 Winchester came out they coughed up two months pay for one because it provided a quantifiable performance edge. When the ‘95 Winchester and 1907 Winchester’s came out they moved on because again they provided real advantages. As Chuck Pressburg is fond of saying, life is open class.

[RevolverRob]

Duty guns. Both for myself and for my people. That includes the whole bell curve not just those that are “like me” whether that means into guns, hand size etc.

Right, but we're not talking about the whole distribution here, just one person.

I think that's where we are having the disconnect.

I'm thinking about the right tool - for me or in this case for Sancho - not the right tool for a distribution of people.

If life is Open Class, then the right tool for folks is the one they use the best, period. Which gets back to occasionally evaluating new things, but also putting in the work and reps with what you have to be competitive.

FWIW, I don't disagree with you that the Gen5 guns are the best Glocks ever made, they are definitely that. Of course...the best of a steaming pile of turds is still a turd...:p (I'm kidding a Gen5 G17/G19 would not make me feel uncomfortable if it was all I had).

[Borderland]

Guns can be tools, but I wouldn't compare any of mine to my chainsaw. :D

[HCM]

Guns can be tools, but I wouldn't compare any of mine to my chainsaw. :D

If you’ve never shot a post match - teams of 2 or three competing to see who can shoot a 4x4 post in half first, you are missing out.

[jtcarm]

You've come to understand and actually internalized Clusterfrack's statement that new guns are an expensive, time-consuming pain in the ass.

Nothing wrong with that.

Well if that's the gist of the OP, yes, I agree.

New platforms are a PITA.

The OP mentioned learning to shoot an AR. I shot one for the first time recently after a lifetime with bolt actions. The basics still apply: trigger control, don't fight the sights, but remember where the sight (iron, reticle, or dot were) were when the shot broke.

The nearest I own to an assault rifle is a 91/30.

I do own an AR lower, upper, & barrel. Some day I might build it out.

I like things simple, I guess that's why I love revolvers. About the only accessories are grips & sights, speedloaders if you want them. I only recently started futzing with moon clips.

I defintely prefer shooting to tinkering & adjusting. I just grab my revolver, fixed-mag rifle, or O/U shotgun and head to the field or range.

I do own a Glock 35 I kinda like shooting, though my son gets the most trigger time with it. I think it's a Gen 4, but I really don't know or care.

[45dotACP]

New platforms are a PITA.

As are multiple platforms. Especially if you're trying to get really good.

I have guns that I play with, but the guns I carry, train and compete with will all be the same couple of guns.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Welder]

Guns can be tools, but I wouldn't compare any of mine to my chainsaw. :D

Maybe you don't have the right chainsaw then. :D

I just came in from cutting wood and I LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE my chainsaws. :D

[HCM]

New platforms are a PITA.

As are multiple platforms. Especially if you're trying to get really good.

I have guns that I play with, but the guns I carry, train and compete with will all be the same couple of guns.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

This^^^.

I have a bunch of people ate work with one SIG and one Glock, trying to get them to go all in on one or the other.

[Trooper224]

New platforms are a PITA.

As are multiple platforms. Especially if you're trying to get really good.

I have guns that I play with, but the guns I carry, train and compete with will all be the same couple of guns.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

True words. I have a safe full, but one or two guns send 99% of the rounds down range.

[RevolverRob]

New platforms are a PITA.

As are multiple platforms. Especially if you're trying to get really good.

I have guns that I play with, but the guns I carry, train and compete with will all be the same couple of guns.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

This is why I keep thinking of getting one of those stupid Mustang .380 clones. I still need a pocket gun for various things from time-to-time, I figure I might as well have one that controls-wise mimics the 1911s I do everything else with, one of C&S' extended thumb safeties should make it feasible.

[45dotACP]

This is why I keep thinking of getting one of those stupid Mustang .380 clones. I still need a pocket gun for various things from time-to-time, I figure I might as well have one that controls-wise mimics the 1911s I do everything else with, one of C&S' extended thumb safeties should make it feasible.I tried basically the Springfield equivalent and got my hand shredded for my troubles.

I've been pretty wary of micro-1911oids ever since.

As contradictory as it may be to my statement above, I found that pocket gun stuff is best handled by an LCP custom.

Actual sights help a ton and it is still pocket sized. It's one of the only non 1911 guns I carry and that's mostly due to the fact that I've found nothing that fits the pocket gun niche so well for me.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[RevolverRob]

I tried basically the Springfield equivalent and got my hand shredded for my troubles.

I've been pretty wary of micro-1911oids ever since.

As contradictory as it may be to my statement above, I found that pocket gun stuff is best handled by an LCP custom.

Actual sights help a ton and it is still pocket sized. It's one of the only non 1911 guns I carry and that's mostly due to the fact that I've found nothing that fits the pocket gun niche so well for me.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

Right I remember you mentioning that in my Colt Mustang (and Clones) thread - sharp slide, hammer bite, or both?

[45dotACP]

Slide bite. It was mostly due to getting my hand up too high. Something about how high up the beaver tail was compared to how little it seemed to do to keep your hand from getting run over by the slide in recoil.

I probably should try out the Mustang or the Sig version just to see.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[rcbusmc24]

I like my little Sig 938s in 9mm as pocket 1911s.... They are slightly larger than the little .380s though.

[Borderland]

Maybe you don't have the right chainsaw then. :D

I just came in from cutting wood and I LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE my chainsaws. :D

I have the right chainsaw/saws. I have three. Just sharpened 2 of them yesterday. I loaned my 036 Pro to my neighbor a few days ago who was working way too hard on a 24" maple using too small of a saw. I don't cut or burn wood anymore, been here 25 years, but there was a time. Both of my neighbors still cut and burn. I treat my saws like I treat my lawnmower. Not a tool junkie or a Russian. :D

[Welder]

I treat my saws like I treat my lawnmower. Not a tool junkie or a Russian. :D

Ah, one of the Great Unwashed LOL

[Drifting Fate]

Not sure I'm the 47 year old to ask as I cut my teeth on Jeff Cooper and am an unabashed Gunsite fan... OK, OK, yes, I've switched to 9mm, and while I have a beautiful 9mm 1911, I keep a Sig P226 SAO w/20+1 by the bed. It's kinda the same.... but more reliable.

Still, Wild Bill did just find with his 1851 Colts into the days of cartridge guns. And, if a .45 1911 landed in my hands, I'd feel a lot more Excalibur than I would, "What happened to all my bullets?"

The old stuff works just as well against flesh and bone as it did in the day it was the new hotness.

Men fight. Pick the tool and take your chances.

As for being and old Fudd, embrace the sickness.

[Borderland]

Ah, one of the Great Unwashed LOL

We have a lot of chainsaw connoisseurs around here being the PNW and all. I'm not one however. I've used a few some people have never heard off like Dolmar and Jonsered. Knew a few honest to god loggers also but I can't claim that title. Most of the mills are closed now.

[HCM]

Not sure I'm the 47 year old to ask as I cut my teeth on Jeff Cooper and am an unabashed Gunsite fan... OK, OK, yes, I've switched to 9mm, and while I have a beautiful 9mm 1911, I keep a Sig P226 SAO w/20+1 by the bed. It's kinda the same.... but more reliable.

Still, Wild Bill did just find with his 1851 Colts into the days of cartridge guns. And, if a .45 1911 landed in my hands, I'd feel a lot more Excalibur than I would, "What happened to all my bullets?"

The old stuff works just as well against flesh and bone as it did in the day it was the new hotness.

Men fight. Pick the tool and take your chances.

As for being and old Fudd, embrace the sickness.

Rocks and bronze weapons still work against flesh and bone but there are better options now.

Hickok is known to have converted at least some, if not all, of his 1851 and 1860 cap and ball guns to metallic cartridges via Richards-mason conversions. He died in 1876 so this was pretty much staying with the best tools available at the time given the speed and manner of communications in those days.

Shooting and fighting are two different things. One being a potential component of the other. In a fight, bullets are opportunities.

When Col. Cooper proselytized the 1911, revolvers reigned and 7+1 with quick reloads was a quantifiable advantage, providing more opportunities than a or 6 shot revolver. That whole best tools available at the time thing again.

If you live a low risk lifestyle or the prospect of getting into a fight for your life is not 100% real to you, giving up opportunities to save yourself or others, or giving up some performance can seem like no big deal. Me, I'll take every advantage I can get.

In fairness a 1911 is still a more viable fighting tool than say a classic Cooper scout bolt gun. It seems to me there were two Coopers, the innovative / evolutionary Cooper and the Dogmatic Cooper. Cooper was innovative and evolutionary up until he decided that his way was THE way and stopped looking for other/ better ways as he had in the past. In his latter days Cooper expressed a grudging respect for Glocks and red dot sights on the "poodle shooters" the lads were using in Mesopotamia. I think that was the old Cooper leaking out from the shell of the guy who was too often trying to re-fight the boer war.

[Duelist]

I am a bit older than you and have just recently had a bit of an evolution, and maybe at least one epiphany. I do like guns, and like lots of different guns, but have settled in a bit on having fewer types. For example, I decided there was no reason to have more than one brand/type of striker fired auto, and settled into M&Ps. I have a number of them, in various sizes, mostly in 9mm but still have two in 45 and one in 40. For reasons I will probably buy a few more M&Ps, but will stay in that lane in regard to striker guns.

And I like 1911s, and have a few in 45 and a couple in 9mm, and want some more. I do not consider getting another 1911 (or M&P) to really be like getting a new gun, because it is the same as many of my others. So I will end up getting some more of them.

And I like revolvers, especially J-Frames, have several and do want some more. I like these because I like them. Will probably stay/remain mostly focused on 38/357.

And I like rifles and this is where I think I "need" more. But I am still not going to go crazy, at least by my frame of reference.

But my epiphany is in regard to shotguns. I enjoy skeet and sporting clays, and a bit of hunting, and I have all those bases covered. And I recently sold my 870 after I admitted to myself that I really do not like pump shotguns. After also selling an 1100 I had I saved up some more and was poised to buy a 1301 when it occurred to me that I really do not need a dedicated defensive shotgun. It was going to be $1200-$1600 wrapped up in something I would probably almost never use, and I pumped the brakes. Not saying I will never ever get one, but I have a bunch of 1911s and rifles to get first.

I also enjoy hunting and clay bird games. If I were to spend a couple of thousand on a shotgun, it might be Italian, but it wouldn’t be a 1301. It would at least have a pretty wood stock. ;)

[mmc45414]

I also enjoy hunting and clay bird games. If I were to spend a couple of thousand on a shotgun, it might be Italian, but it wouldn’t be a 1301. It would at least have a pretty wood stock. ;)
Yes! A few years back I scrounged around and sold off stuff I didn't love to come up with what it took to buy a Beretta 686 Sporting in 20g. Not a perfect game gun but is light enough to also serve as a reasonable hunting gun. I reload 3/4oz-#9 for skeet mostly. What little sporting clays I do I just use 7/8oz-#8 factory loads, but have started experimenting with loading 1oz-#8. All of this is tons of fun.

And I have decided that I must try and be strong and resist some stuff that I think is cool, that I really do not need, like a lever gun. Though I want a lever gun, and if I tripped over an opportunity I would probably cave, but I am trying to be strong.

I have I have everything I need to defend myself and amuse myself already!!!! :cool:

[Duelist]

Yes! A few years back I scrounged around and sold off stuff I didn't love to come up with what it took to buy a Beretta 686 Sporting in 20g. Not a perfect game gun but is light enough to also serve as a reasonable hunting gun. I reload 3/4oz-#9 for skeet mostly. What little sporting clays I do I just use 7/8oz-#8 factory loads, but have started experimenting with loading 1oz-#8. All of this is tons of fun.

And I have decided that I must try and be strong and resist some stuff that I think is cool, that I really do not need, like a lever gun. Though I want a lever gun, and if I tripped over an opportunity I would probably cave, but I am trying to be strong.

I have I have everything I need to defend myself and amuse myself already!!!! :cool:

I can totally see a 686. Nice!

I can’t help with talking you out of a lever gun. Whether .357 or .22, they are very fun and have practical applications. Other calibers definitely have their appeal as well.

50587

[mmc45414]

I can’t help with talking you out of a lever gun. Whether .357 or .22, they are very fun and have practical applications.

STOP IT!!!! Hahaha :D

[HCM]

“You can take your nostalgia and stick it where the sun don’t shine”

50602

[Redhat]

“You can take your nostalgia and stick it where the sun don’t shine”

50602

Probably photoshop :cool:

[Caballoflaco]

Texas Ranger with a Luger ca1907

50605

[Redhat]

Texas Ranger with a Luger ca1907

50605

You really think a Ranger would carry something not made in USA?

[OlongJohnson]

Well, some Texans like to think TX is still really its own country, and there are a lot of Germans in parts of it, so...

[Joe in PNG]

You really think a Ranger would carry something not made in USA?

According to Wiki, sure: 'American Eagle' 7.65 Model 1900 pistols were used by variety of buyers, including American lawmen such as Stringer Fenton, outlaws, and Texas Rangers.[19][20][21][22]

After all, JMB hadn't had time to invent the 1911 yet.

[Redhat]

According to Wiki, sure: 'American Eagle' 7.65 Model 1900 pistols were used by variety of buyers, including American lawmen such as Stringer Fenton, outlaws, and Texas Rangers.[19][20][21][22]

After all, JMB hadn't had time to invent the 1911 yet.

I'll be....learn something everyday

[Caballoflaco]

Also, the guy that’s standing up in the black hat in that photo is Frank Hamer.

[Redhat]

Also, the guy that’s standing up in the black hat in that photo is Frank Hamer.

But who's the guy with the fancy pistol?

[Joe in PNG]

But who's the guy with the fancy pistol?

Cpt. John Rogers, from what I have found on the internets

[Caballoflaco]

But who's the guy with the fancy pistol?

According to this article I found that went with the photo:


Captain John H. Rogers, shown here sitting with a Luger pistol. Though Capt. Rogers reputedly held the semiautomatic Luger in high regard

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/frank-hamer-the-rangers/248346