The "Talk on"

[vmi-mo]

I was sitting around with some of my peers and the discussion of “talk ons” came up due to some recent missed opportunities. A “talk on” is essentially you correlating a target for another party involved. For mil types I know this rings a bell. In my infinite boredom I began to think about how “talk ons” can be so critical to everyone and it is such a vital life saving skill.
I am sure some one is saying “what the ****” right now however hear me. I will attempt to draw out my point through some scenarios.
You are traveling along a named road when your car is struck. You have some sort of urgent casualty with you. There is no street address for your position and no easily found terrain marks. What seems to be a better “talk on”.
“I am on the left hand side of Driver Road around the walmart”
Or
“II am on the north side of driver road, 2 miles east of walmart”
Another example, There is a guy shooting up a mall.
“There is a guy shooting up Strip Mall he is going into the Mc Donalds now”
Or
“There is a White male in a blue sweat shirt shooting up the Strip Mall. He is headed to the west wing of the mall. He has a pistol. He has shot 5 people in the northern wing of the mall”.
Information drives the responses and actions of those that could be saving your life. It allows first responders to begin to formulate a plan, get an idea of what they are facing and preparing the best course of action.
Essentially this is all just “direction giving skills” however I threw in some tactical lingo to make it cool. This is a very perishable skill and requires practice and thought to be good at it. So the next time someone yells to you and says “where are you” and you say “over here” think to yourself how utterly useless that statement was in terms of actually giving that person your position.
Also most dudes seem to think they are awesome at direction giving. Most likely you aren’t. Unless I work with an abnormally inept crew.

[TCinVA]

I think the fundamental disconnect is that because we live our entire life inside a dark cage (i.e. our own skull...the whole universe has to fit inside there, folks) we're often not good at trying to figure out how others might see things. Few things in life are as maddening as trying to think through someone else's problem solving process.

To me, "two miles east of Wal-Mart" would be a meaningless description because I usually don't have a good read on where true north is as I go about daily life. "To the left of Wal-Mart" would be a better description. I tend to be much more landmark oriented as far as directions go than point-on-map oriented.

[bdcheung]

It's largely contextual.

If I'm talking to my wife, I don't provide cardinal directions. I provide landmarks.

If I'm talking to a 911 operator or someone else who I can safely assume is familiar or trained on basic orienteering, I'll provide more technical details.

[peterb]

To me, "two miles east of Wal-Mart" would be a meaningless description because I usually don't have a good read on where true north is as I go about daily life. "To the left of Wal-Mart" would be a better description.

Ah, but left from what viewpoint? I do a bit of phone support in my day job, and talking people through tasks can be hard if you don't share a perspective. "Left as you face the main entrance" is better. When trying to give directions "What can you see?" can be useful question.

It can be audience-specific. Even though I haven't flown or sailed in a while, I still like maps & charts and have a good sense of my compass bearings on my home turf. "The south end of the lake" works better for me than "the left side".

To digress a bit, I read an article about some "primitive" cultures that reference all positions relative to cardinal directions, even in casual conversation, so they say "the rock is south of the stump" instead of "the rock is behind the stump." They have to always know their spatial orientation. It must develop an extraordinary internal compass.

I always like the classic small-town directions that reference landmarks that no longer exist: "...and turn right at the corner where the Smith's barn used to be"

[peterb]

Duplicate post removed.

[vmi-mo]

Left right up and down is all based on viewpoint. I have learned the hard way to speak in cardinal directions.

Distance and direction from a known point or you own shared position tend to work well.

The idea is to always portray enough info, however not overwhelming whoever is on the taking end. Too much info can be almost as bad as too little.

[jar]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all is the article that peterb mentioned. I read that a while ago and found it fascinating.

There's a great scene in The Wire about how one of the old hand's most important advice to new patrol officers is to always know exactly where you are so if you call for backup, they can actually find you.

[Odin Bravo One]

This is why the best assets are trained to deal with the dumbest of the dumb knuckle dragging retards who have had their wits pounded out of their skulls by stress and adrenaline overdose.

[MikeyC]

If I'm talking to a 911 operator or someone else who I can safely assume is familiar or trained on basic orienteering, I'll provide more technical details.

Don't ever hope for that if you call 911 in DC. Landmarks are your best bet, the more the better. I.E. Inbound side of the Suiltand Pkwy between Stanton Rd and Firth Sterling Ave. Red Ford Fiesta upside down on the median.

This is one of those weird spots where you want as much information as possible with as little room to misinterpret as possible. Think of how you would explain directions for a bad guy you saw on the 95/395/495 mixing bowl in Springfield and work from there.

[37th Mass]

Don't ever hope for that if you call 911 in DC. Landmarks are your best bet, the more the better.

Yeah, DC is the least 'directionally:p oriented' city I have ever seen. All of the avenues seem to be in random directions from one of the landmark circles. The city is divided into quadrants so that a street number could be either NE, SE, NW or SW, and they are all very far from one another. It is a very difficult city to learn your way around in.

Manhattan on the other hand is a breeze. The Avenues run North-South, the streets run East-West. The streets are all numbered. The Avenues are numbered except for a few notable exceptions (e.g., Broadway). Directions are easy, even for a newcomer.

[Coyotesfan97]

There's a great scene in The Wire about how one of the old hand's most important advice to new patrol officers is to always know exactly where you are so if you call for backup, they can actually find you.

From an old Field Training Officer this was one of the hardest aspects for new Officers to learn. The city I work in is very well layed out (with a few exceptions). The cardinal point/center intersection is 0,0. The blocks are layed out in 100s. A mile is 8 blocks. Streets are north of Main. Avenues are south.

New Officers still have problems because most of them have no experience with knowing which way north is at all times. One of my FTOs taught me if you can at least say you are 600 north and 1400 east people will find you.

You have to teach and make sure guys are looking at streets signs when they turn so they know what street they are on. I liked to tell them to pull over and stop then tell them I had just been shot. Where are you so you can call in assistance.

We have GPS mapping on our car computers. Officers are over reliant on it. God help us when the DXTs go down.

There is nothing more frustrating then trying to respond to a foot chase when the Officer involved doesn't know exactly where he's at and is screaming in the radio with worthless directions.

[MikeyC]

Yeah, DC is the least 'directionally:p oriented' city I have ever seen. All of the avenues seem to be in random directions from one of the landmark circles. The city is divided into quadrants so that a street number could be either NE, SE, NW or SW, and they are all very far from one another. It is a very difficult city to learn your way around in.


There is an actual layout to DC, if you know how to work it, and understand that it doesn't apply to the "REAL SOUTHEAST" (any part of DC east of the Anacostia). This is why landmarks become so important. Surely the DC Beltway isn't the only one were people confuse the inner and outer loops

[krazykiddjoe]

From an old Field Training Officer this was one of the hardest aspects for new Officers to learn. The city I work in is very well layed out (with a few exceptions). The cardinal point/center intersection is 0,0. The blocks are layed out in 100s. A mile is 8 blocks. Streets are north of Main. Avenues are south.

New Officers still have problems because most of them have no experience with knowing which way north is at all times. One of my FTOs taught me if you can at least say you are 600 north and 1400 east people will find you.

You have to teach and make sure guys are looking at streets signs when they turn so they know what street they are on. I liked to tell them to pull over and stop then tell them I had just been shot. Where are you so you can call in assistance.

We have GPS mapping on our car computers. Officers are over reliant on it. God help us when the DXTs go down.

There is nothing more frustrating then trying to respond to a foot chase when the Officer involved doesn't know exactly where he's at and is screaming in the radio with worthless directions.

As a current FTO Alternate, I drill this point into new recruits heads. I tell them to stop randomly thru the night. "Where are we right now?" I require a street/cross street. I also require them to know north at any time. The same road here will have six names in 15 miles. And if we are on street A near ave B. B ave/A st is unacceptable for a good rating. IF I have a boot in their first phase, HE/SHE WILL know where they are at all times when they leave me, they will know how to write a basic report.

AGREE 1000, on the frustrating part, Tuesday evening we had an officer in a foot pursuit, He has mild asthma that doesn't like foot pursuits, AND he had no idea where he was running, (He's been on same as me, we came in together, he left for a specialized unit and doesn't engage in police work in a traditional sense at this point). Asking him repeatedly which way he was heading or what his location was, after the third "I'm over here", YEAH, ON A RADIO that's not helpful. I located him and gave his position and the suspect was detained a few minutes later. We had 7 units waiting to find a location to respond.

KKJ- Outs