.45 ACP revolvers?

[daved20319]

So despite my love of the .45 ACP, I've always shied away from revolvers in this caliber due to the need for moon clips. Dumb, maybe, but it's always been a non-starter for me. But then someone said the magic words, ".45 Auto Rim", and now I'm jonesing bad :rolleyes:.

So in current production DA/SA guns worth buying, it looks like my choices are either a S&W 625 or a Ruger Redhawk. My chances of being able to handle either before buying are slim at best, and forget about actually shooting one. Purpose will be strictly range toy for practicing my DA shooting, maybe backup nightstand gun. I already load for .45 ACP, one of the reasons this just jumped to the top of my "gotta have it" list, any other caliber revolver will mean adding something new to the loading list.

So based on the above, it's time for that most dreaded of questions, which do I get, and why? That said, if there are other options I've missed, I'd be happy to hear about them, too. Appreciate any input, thanks.

Dave

[willie]

I have owned several including 1917 Smith and Colt revolvers. I recommend the S&W option. If you own no single actions, I urge you to look at Ruger's convertible offering with two cylinders: .45 Colt and .45 ACP. You can cheaply shoot the ACP without having to use nuisance moon clips or the scarce .45 Auto Rim case.

[daved20319]

I have owned several including 1917 Smith and Colt revolvers. I recommend the S&W option. If you own no single actions, I urge you to look at Ruger's convertible offering with two cylinders: .45 Colt and .45 ACP. You can cheaply shoot the ACP without having to use nuisance moon clips or the scarce .45 Auto Rim case.

Only argument against a Ruger SA is that my primary purpose is to be able to work on my DA shooting for my DA/SA autos. And .45 AR cases are readily available from Starline Brass, at a price that seems reasonable to me. But thanks for the lean toward S&W, I was leaning that way anyway, I just think they're more attractive than the Ruger. Later.

Dave

[Joe in PNG]

How about a little enabling. Only $950 at Summit
(http://summitgunbroker.com/s-w-625-3--.html)

49937

[Joe in PNG]

Or, if you want something a bit more targety:
49938

$995 at Summit (http://summitgunbroker.com/s-w-25-2.html)

[daved20319]

How about a little enabling. Only $950 at Summit
(http://summitgunbroker.com/s-w-625-3--.html)

49937

Pretty, but I want a longer barrel, range toy, remember? 4" minimum, and 6" would be ideal. But keep enabling ;)!

Dave

[willie]

I have 45 Auto Rim factory ammo from yesteryear and unfired Auto Rim brass for my Model 25 bought in 1971. In process of giving away and selling a lifetime hoard of stuff. PM me when you get the Smith. I don't remember quantities but will make you a deal you can't refuse. I'm tired of stumbling over it.

[willie]

Pretty, but I want a longer barrel, range toy, remember? 4" minimum, and 6" would be ideal. But keep enabling ;)!

Dave

Believe me when I say you should buy this revolver, and this is from a guy who has owned all the old stuff 2 or 3 times. It ain't cheap, but neither is what you plan to buy. The weight and fine action on this revolver will allow you to shoot with target accuracy. It will always bring a premium if sold later. Not so the MiM wonder that you might end up with. I hesitate to give this type advice because many have no idea about what I am saying. Comment not aimed at you.

[Joe in PNG]

Pretty, but I want a longer barrel, range toy, remember? 4" minimum, and 6" would be ideal. But keep enabling ;)!

Dave

Then the second option would be perfect


Or, if you want something a bit more targety:
49938

$995 at Summit (http://summitgunbroker.com/s-w-25-2.html)

[Half Moon]

For versatility the Redhawk version that can shoot both 45 ACP from clips and also 45 Long Colt might be hard to beat. They are supposed to be able to take pretty hot 45 Long Colt loads while still using 45 ACP for cheaper plinking, etc. Looked at them a few times but the Ruger trigger is just not as good as a Smith. I've backed away from buying every time I've handled one and felt the trigger. Still, if I didn't have multiple other 45 ACP revolvers I'd probably go with the Ruger and maybe pony up for an action job.

On clips - I've got thousands on thousands of rounds through clip fed 45 ACP revolvers. The only problem I've ever had was a pair of stainless clips that were slightly oversized and dragging in a 1917 cylinder. Otherwise never an issue at the range. The GI type half moons do wear over time and start holding cartridges too loosely when loading them. They are cheaply replaced though. The old style full moons have a lot of structural rigidity and I haven't had to replace one yet.

45 ACP revolvers are fun big bores. Welcome down the rabbit hole!

[jtcarm]

Be prepared to handload .45 AR.

Factory ammo, if you can find it, will be very pricey.

You can shoot ACP without clips and punch them out. I pluck then out with fingernails on my 625.

[Rick R]

I’ve owned a Scandium S&W N frame in .45acp and a 4” Ruger Redhawk in .45 Colt. The Scandium gun kicked worse and the finish wasn’t durable. I couldn’t learn to like the ergonomics of the Ruger even as a devout Rugerite. FWIW, I love my 3” GP-100 in 10mm and it’s quite useable sans moonclips, but after owning two Redhawks I’m sworn off them.

If I were in your shoes and wanted a target gun I’d get the 6” S&W M25 shown above. If I intended on carrying it I’d find a 4” S&W M625 or M25 Mountain Gun.

[mtnbkr]

I have a 625JM. I use either ACP loads using with and without moon clips or AR loads.

For range duty moon clips, I like the Rimz plastic moon clips. I can load/unload them without tools.

I load 45AR using ACP dies and an AR-specific shell holder. Because I'm working with plated bullets, I haven't changed my crimp die from the ACP-specific taper crimp die. When I switch over to cast bullets, I'll replace the internal crimping part (forgot the actual name) with one that gives a roll crimp.

My current pet load is a 230gr plated RN with 4.5gr Bullseye.

Chris

[awp_101]

I couldn’t learn to like the ergonomics of the Ruger even as a devout Rugerite.
If Ruger would make the 4" .45 convertible on the RH frame with the SRH grip stud, I'd sell something on my "never to be sold" list to fund one. Of course that's assuming I can get it with the correct (or at least undersized) throats and it works out of the box as it should.

[Baldanders]

I gushed about mine recently:


https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?41017-My-625-and-me-fate

I would grab the 6" shown earlier in a heartbeat. But the 5" full underlug has near perfect balance for me.

If you get a TK Custom demooner, clips are no big deal. With cheap 230 grain ball, I can remove cases with my fingernail, as another poster already stated.

You might want to check my .45 Colt v .44 Mag thread that turned into a discussion of hotloaded .45AR in 625s. Also the .45 AR thread in the handloading forum.

IMO, .45 ACP in an N frame gives you a big revolver that can handle most game animals (without handloading, if you go Buffalo Bore), has a great selection of self-defense loads, and is a joy for target shooting as well. What else do you want out of a sixgun?

You should probably buy both of the specimens in the photos. One for home, one for carry. 😈

[Half Moon]

I couldn’t learn to like the ergonomics of the Ruger even as a devout Rugerite. FWIW, I love my 3” GP-100 in 10mm and it’s quite useable sans moonclips, but after owning two Redhawks I’m sworn off them.

What did you dislike in the Redhawk ergonomics? Handling them in gun shops they've felt fine.

Then again there's some things you only learn by firing. For instance, Colt 1917's have a hump in the frame. If I adopt my usual high grip that hump hammers the nerve cluster right above my thumb webbing. Makes itself felt with authority more so than a lot of big bore magnums I've shot. On those I've found a grip adaptor forces the hand down just enough to avoid the hump.

[Rick R]

What did you dislike in the Redhawk ergonomics? Handling them in gun shops they've felt fine.


I’ve used the stock wooden grips and Hogue rubber grips. Off the bench I could turn in some very nice groups, standing on my back legs and shooting like a man I was all over the place. With my 4” Mountain Gun real world groups were half as big and that was with 270gr magnum loads. Something about how the Redhawk points for me just doesn’t translate but the S&W N frame or GP-100 does.


If Ruger would make the 4" .45 convertible on the RH frame with the SRH grip stud, I'd sell something on my "never to be sold" list to fund one. Of course that's assuming I can get it with the correct (or at least undersized) throats and it works out of the box as it should.

Amen brother! And that’s considering that the SRH and GP-100 haven’t gotten the after market support from grip makers that they should have.

[Half Moon]

I’ve used the stock wooden grips and Hogue rubber grips. Off the bench I could turn in some very nice groups, standing on my back legs and shooting like a man I was all over the place. With my 4” Mountain Gun real world groups were half as big and that was with 270gr magnum loads. Something about how the Redhawk points for me just doesn’t translate but the S&W N frame or GP-100 does.

That tracks with my experience of SP101 versus J frames. For instance, the wife's SP101 3" was bought used and I suspect had tuning or at least lightened springs. One of the smoothest, cleanest DA triggers I've ever felt. Between the trigger and sight radius I expected it to be a tack driver but could shoot circles around it with almost any J. Don't know why.

[jtcarm]

Or, if you want something a bit more targety:
49938

$995 at Summit (http://summitgunbroker.com/s-w-25-2.html)

That's way too much for a 25-2.

For the OPs stated purpose, the current production 625 should be perfect.

I would strongly advise against the 325. Too many reports of failure in the scandium guns.

[Dave T]

I will never understand the objection and rejection of Moonclip use when the same folks will fool around with a stack of magazines every time they go to the range. And with the various tools available these days loading and unloading Moonclips is relatively easy. For years now I've kept an ammo can full of loaded Moonclips ready for any time I want to shoot a 45 ACP revolver, and I've owned a bunch of them.

First was a M25-2 that a previous owner had cut down to 4". Who ever did the work did a very good job. That was an excellent revolver and I've long regretted getting rid of it. I got another 25-2 and had my own gunsmith friend cut it to 5". I shot that one in steel matches (before the Steel Challenge) when they didn't even have a revolver class, just for fun. Had a couple 5" 625s, one of which I shot in the beginning of IDPA, before they outlawed anything longer than 4". Got a 4" 625 when S&W introduced them, sold it for something else and years later bought another one.

Didn't have a 45 ACP revolver for a couple years and decided I should fix that. Looked at the first Mountain Revolver in that caliber but didn't like stainless much anymore (I live in the arid SW desert). Smith never offered a blued one so I had my gunsmith build one from a M25-2 I found with a Model of 1950 tapered barrel installed. Cut the barrel to 4", pinned the ramp to the barrel rib, then pinned the front sight to the ramp, just like they used to do. He round butted the frame for the pair of flat sided Combat stocks I had, cleaned up the insides and smoothed the DA trigger, and finally bead blasted and blued the whole business. It's the 45 ACP revolver I still have and If someone could tell me how to post pictures on this forum I'd show it to you. (smile)

Dave

[TGS]

Moonclips bend a lot easier than mags.

[jtcarm]

What did you dislike in the Redhawk ergonomics? Handling them in gun shops they've felt fine.

Then again there's some things you only learn by firing. For instance, Colt 1917's have a hump in the frame. If I adopt my usual high grip that hump hammers the nerve cluster right above my thumb webbing. Makes itself felt with authority more so than a lot of big bore magnums I've shot. On those I've found a grip adaptor forces the hand down just enough to avoid the hump.

For DA work, the Redhawk trigger is long and heavy.

I love it for SA shooting of .44 magnum-class loads.

[Dave T]

Moonclips bend a lot easier than mags.

In all the years I've owned 45 ACP revolvers I've only had one Moonmclip get bent. That was during a match when the RO stepped on one of my empties before I could recover it. YMMV!

Dave

[JRV]

Even really good moonies are about the cheapest ammo carriers available, and checking for bent clips is fairly easy. Retract the hammer until the cylinder freespins. If it doesn’t, switch out that clip.

I wouldn’t just dump one in the front pocket of a pair of tight jeans, but they’re not “that” fragile if they’re made from decent stock and treated right. They can bounce around in a coat pocket or in a belt pouch without issue.

[JAH 3rd]

I know you are looking for a DA/SA revolver. I bought a Ruger single action revolver, model 0472. It's a convertible with a 45LC and 45ACP cylinder. It is a heavy revolver. I watched too many episodes of Gunsmoke and a craving came over me. This Ruger is what I settled on. Happy with my purchase.

[Oldherkpilot]

Be prepared to handload .45 AR.

Factory ammo, if you can find it, will be very pricey.

You can shoot ACP without clips and punch them out. I pluck then out with fingernails on my 625.

I recommend you check the chambers on your revolver if you want to go sans clips. I bought a 625 Model of 1988 the first year and shot it lots with no clips. 20 years later I sold a fellow a new 625 and mentioned that he could shoot it without clips. Had to eat some crow because not only were most of the chambers cut too deep for the firing pin to strike the primers but the owners manual actually specified that you need to use clips!

[daved20319]

I know you are looking for a DA/SA revolver. I bought a Ruger single action revolver, model 0472. It's a convertible with a 45LC and 45ACP cylinder. It is a heavy revolver. I watched too many episodes of Gunsmoke and a craving came over me. This Ruger is what I settled on. Happy with my purchase.

First gun I ever bought was a Ruger Blackhawk in .41 Mag, so I've definitely considered going that route. Problem is, IF I went that route, I'd want a Bisley, and they're hard to find, period, but especially hard configured the way I'd like, i.e. blued with a ~6" barrel. And the truth is, I really have no need for a .45 LC, why burn the extra powder for just target shooting? .45 ACP is more than enough for anything I'm likely to need a handgun for, and if it's not, I'm either in a world or hurt or I need one of my rifles :rolleyes:.

Some beautiful guns posted here, that 25 at Summit really got me drooling all over my keyboard. Someone commented it was over priced, that doesn't seem to be the case based on what I see posted on Gun Broker. Moot point, I can't swing it right now anyway, gotta get that CZ sold before I start shopping seriously. Speaking of which, it would probably sell a lot faster if I actually got around to posting it, guess I better go work on an ad :eek:. Later.

Dave

[jtcarm]

Moonclips bend a lot easier than mags.

Yeah, and I can buy 15 of them for the cost of one magazine. Maybe more, depending on the mag.

I only use them for competition, and they're easy to check.

[TGS]

My comment was in response to: "I will never understand the objection and rejection of Moonclip use when the same folks will fool around with a stack of magazines every time they go to the range."

I don't care if you use moonclips.

[HeavyDuty]

Total thread diversion, but one of my dream revolvers would be a .45 ACP N frame with the 547-style extraction system. Make mine 4” heavy barrel fixed sights, please.

[awp_101]

Total thread diversion, but one of my dream revolvers would be a .45 ACP N frame with the 547-style extraction system. Make mine 4” heavy barrel fixed sights, please.
I want a 4”-5” moonclipped Webley for lots of not real good reasons.

[Rosco Benson]

I had one for the older 4" 625's back in the 1990's. Sold it. Wish I hadn't. It was a really nice revolver with a decent action from the factory.

IMO, there are a couple points against these guns. First, it's an N-frame. It's HUGE and HEAVY compared to, say, a lightweight Commander. Secondly, reloading is an all or nothing proposition. You don't have the option of firing, say, two rounds and then replacing just those fired cases with a couple rounds from loops or a 2x2x2 pouch. If you dump the entire moon clip, reload, and save the partially expended moon clip, it does you no good. You can't get the partial moon clip back in the cylinder if you need those rounds later.

It's kind of like a Garand in that regard. If you're down a couple rounds and you want a full gun before you proceed, you can't do it without essentially dumping the ammo that's in the partially loaded gun.

A revolver that uses rimmed cartridges doesn't have this disadvantage. It might be a little slower to speedload than a full moon clip gun, but I think it's the better choice.

Rosco

[daved20319]

I had one for the older 4" 625's back in the 1990's. Sold it. Wish I hadn't. It was a really nice revolver with a decent action from the factory.

IMO, there are a couple points against these guns. First, it's an N-frame. It's HUGE and HEAVY compared to, say, a lightweight Commander. Secondly, reloading is an all or nothing proposition. You don't have the option of firing, say, two rounds and then replacing just those fired cases with a couple rounds from loops or a 2x2x2 pouch. If you dump the entire moon clip, reload, and save the partially expended moon clip, it does you no good. You can't get the partial moon clip back in the cylinder if you need those rounds later.

It's kind of like a Garand in that regard. If you're down a couple rounds and you want a full gun before you proceed, you can't do it without essentially dumping the ammo that's in the partially loaded gun.

A revolver that uses rimmed cartridges doesn't have this disadvantage. It might be a little slower to speedload than a full moon clip gun, but I think it's the better choice.

Rosco

Which is where .45 Auto Rim cases come in :D. I'd never quite gotten to what you were just talking about, but like I said in my OP, getting schooled on the .45 AR brass is what finally tipped the scales for me. I LOVE the .45 ACP, easy to load, lots of good bullets, economical on powder compared to most of the other big bore pistol cartridges, and just a pleasure to shoot, at least in the guns I've used in this caliber, the lightest of which is my Sig P220R, at about 36 oz. with 8 rounds on board, I rarely load +1. My other .45, a CZ 97 BD, is a bit of a behemoth, bigger over all, steel frame, 10 round capacity, that comes in at about 47 oz., or about the same as a full size 1911, the only other guns I've owned in .45 ACP. Don't know that I'd like it nearly as much in a light weight gun.

Anyway, thanks to all you enablers ;), I put in a bid on a 625 "Model of 1989" last night, auction closes in a couple of hours, so we'll see. I really wanted a blued 6" gun, but the pricing was kind of out of reach, so if my only other choice is a 5" barrel and stainless steel, well, as long as it's got a full under lug, I guess I can live with it ;). Of course, I've never done this before, so who knows if I'll win the bid. If so, I better get busy selling my 97 :rolleyes:. Wish me luck, guys, will update if I win it. Later.

Dave

[jetfire]

How about a little enabling. Only $950 at Summit
(http://summitgunbroker.com/s-w-625-3--.html)

49937

Oh FUCK you. I did not need to see that while I'm social distancing. My brain is all "it's just a grand...I could totally afford that..."

[mtnbkr]

Oh FUCK you. I did not need to see that while I'm social distancing. My brain is all "it's just a grand...I could totally afford that..."

It's not like you're out socializing, spending money on movies, dinners, etc. You could pay that grand off real quick. :)

Chris

[Johnny Walker]

It's not like you're out socializing, spending money on movies, dinners, etc. You could pay that grand off real quick. :)

Chris

You are oh so correct! He could then post a host of videos shooting that fine revolver~!

[jetfire]

You are oh so correct! He could then post a host of videos shooting that fine revolver~!

Well, once I get to go play outside again. Since they cancelled my season opener match, I'm not doing any live fire training until probably mid April now.

[Johnny Walker]

Well, once I get to go play outside again. Since they cancelled my season opener match, I'm not doing any live fire training until probably mid April now.

Well shit the bed...

[Jim Watson]

I will probably get MORE practice as ammo and component availability allows.
The nearest outdoor range is sparsely attended, seldom see anybody there on a weekday.
I was there today with one friend tweaking his PCC and ammo. Nobody else in sight.

[jetfire]

I will probably get MORE practice as ammo and component availability allows.
The nearest outdoor range is sparsely attended, seldom see anybody there on a weekday.
I was there today with one friend tweaking his PCC and ammo. Nobody else in sight.

For the first time in 20 years, I wish I lived in a rural area again. Living in a major metropolitan area, in a high rise building at that, there is no way for me to effectively practice social distancing and continue to live fire train. Just to get to the car I have to ride a public elevator and touch a public door, then there's checking in at the range (another door), touching target stands, steel, etc. Then do all that in reverse on the way home, and god forbid I have to do something like stop for gas or a snack.

I am trying to treat this like I already have the virus and I'm trying to not give it to other people, so the smartest thing to do for now is just...sit here and type. And dry fire.

[daved20319]

Well, no joy on my one and only Gunbroker attempt, I got outbid by about $60. Considering the other prices I'm seeing on the same gun, I'm kind of wishing I'd tried a little harder, but only kind of. Now I'm second guessing the whole idea, asking myself what I gain by going from a 10 shot semi-auto to a 6 shot revolver. The CZ is set up as a target shooter, so no gain there. I've worked on the trigger, it's pretty awesome in SA or DA. Yeah, it would be nice to have a revolver at some point, but if I ever do, I'm thinking I'd be smarter sticking to my original plan of a Ruger GP 100 in .38/.357. Yeah, it's another cartridge to load for, but it's still a common and easily acquired one. I think I'm just going to think of this as a temporary aberration, and go back to my plan of focusing on getting good with what I have, and on my loading for same. Later, all, and thanks for the suggestions.

Dave

[Lester Polfus]

Well, no joy on my one and only Gunbroker attempt, I got outbid by about $60. Considering the other prices I'm seeing on the same gun, I'm kind of wishing I'd tried a little harder, but only kind of. Now I'm second guessing the whole idea, asking myself what I gain by going from a 10 shot semi-auto to a 6 shot revolver. The CZ is set up as a target shooter, so no gain there. I've worked on the trigger, it's pretty awesome in SA or DA. Yeah, it would be nice to have a revolver at some point, but if I ever do, I'm thinking I'd be smarter sticking to my original plan of a Ruger GP 100 in .38/.357. Yeah, it's another cartridge to load for, but it's still a common and easily acquired one. I think I'm just going to think of this as a temporary aberration, and go back to my plan of focusing on getting good with what I have, and on my loading for same. Later, all, and thanks for the suggestions.

Dave

Give it a month or two and I bet prices will come down.

I love my .357 GP100. That's not a bad choice either.