RDS/MOS accuracy

[Gio]

I got a new SRO last week and installed it on a Glock 34.5 MOS using a CH precision V3 plate. I also have a different 34.5 currently setup with a DPP on a Glock MOS plate.

With my reloads, I had previously been getting 3-4” groups off a sandbag at 25 yds with the dpp. I had been fairly disappointed in this, as I was able to shoot tighter groups with irons on the same gun.

I took the new SRO setup out to zero using the same ammo and was consistently producing 1.5” groups or less at 25. I haven’t jumped into further testing yet, but I’m guessing it’s the MOS plate vs CH plate. However, there are certainly some confounding variables I have to eliminate:
1. Different guns, and 2. different rds. Previously. When both guns were setup for uspsa production, I was getting the exact same sized groups with irons in the 2-2.5” range.

More to come, but I’m wondering if anyone else has noticed degraded accuracy using MOS plates?

[PaleKnight]

I can't speak to the accuracy difference between the MOS plate and CHPWS plate quite yet....but when the RMR for my G19.5 arrives it'll go on a CHPWS adapter.

As far as ammo goes, I've had very good luck with S&B 124 gr. out of several different flavors of Glocks. Consistent ejection, good accuracy given my fundamentals are locked in, and loaded pretty hot. A co-worker of mine, an avid bulls eye shooter, has been able to put up dream-worthy targets at 25 yards with steel cased Tula 115 gr. Trust me, I know. I had the same hesitancy when he showed me some of the results given the kind of ammo, but he is def on to something after doing some researching.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Interesting thread topic.

However, regarding your particular example, that is too many variable changes to draw any conclusions. Each barrel is its own animal, and the first G34 could be less accurate generally or it could not like that particular load.

[GJM]

I got a new SRO last week and installed it on a Glock 34.5 MOS using a CH precision V3 plate. I also have a different 34.5 currently setup with a DPP on a Glock MOS plate.

With my reloads, I had previously been getting 3-4” groups off a sandbag at 25 yds with the dpp. I had been fairly disappointed in this, as I was able to shoot tighter groups with irons on the same gun.

I took the new SRO setup out to zero using the same ammo and was consistently producing 1.5” groups or less at 25. I haven’t jumped into further testing yet, but I’m guessing it’s the MOS plate vs CH plate. However, there are certainly some confounding variables I have to eliminate:
1. Different guns, and 2. different rds. Previously. When both guns were setup for uspsa production, I was getting the exact same sized groups with irons in the 2-2.5” range.

More to come, but I’m wondering if anyone else has noticed degraded accuracy using MOS plates?

I have a bunch of direct milled and MOS pistols, and the only time I noticed an accuracy difference with either type is when the plate or optic was loose. Recently I had a direct milled G14 17 loosen up in accuracy, and the fix was a new recoil spring on the Glock Store tungsten guide rod. While I am regularly surprised by things, barring a defect in that particular MOS plate, I would bet it is something other than the different type plates.

[Alpha Sierra]

I have a bunch of direct milled and MOS pistols, and the only time I noticed an accuracy difference with either type is when the plate or optic was loose.

I was going to mention that.

There is no possible way a difference in mounting systems is going to change your pistol's accuracy unless one of them is letting the sight move around under recoil.

[Mfbpt]

These just came out yesterday. Machines out of steel and basically gives the mos a milled fit.

https://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/OPF-G-RMR_p_224.html

[Gio]

As an update on this, I shot the G34 with the DPP again for a couple groups that averaged 4.5." Then I removed the DPP and shot the gun again with irons. I was able to easily get 1.6-2.5" groups off a rest at 25 yds with iron sights. In fact, 2.5" was the largest group size I saw with irons out of about 7 groups, and the average was around 2.1". So this eliminates the gun being a confounding factor from my original post, which leaves the MOS plate or the DPP itself. There was nothing loose about the optic or the plate. I haven't had a ton of free time to sit around experimenting with all the different variables yet, but I'd like to try the DPP on a CH precision plate to narrow it down to the MOS plate or the DPP. I'm also pretty committed to the SRO for carry optics at this point, so this is more "for science."

[GJM]

Something isn’t right. Can you try a different optic?

[HCM]

Interesting thread topic.

However, regarding your particular example, that is too many variable changes to draw any conclusions. Each barrel is its own animal, and the first G34 could be less accurate generally or it could not like that particular load.

The OP mentioned he was getting the same accuracy out of both guns (2.5”) when they were set up as iron sight guns.

Most obvious cause would be mounting issues, whether the plates or other mounting factors.

The OP is a very seasoned shooter but I wonder if different RDS just work better for some people’s eyes than others.

[1911Nut]

I have a bunch of direct milled and MOS pistols, and the only time I noticed an accuracy difference with either type is when the plate or optic was loose. Recently I had a direct milled G14 17 loosen up in accuracy, and the fix was a new recoil spring on the Glock Store tungsten guide rod. While I am regularly surprised by things, barring a defect in that particular MOS plate, I would bet it is something other than the different type plates.

I've been doing my best today to catch up on all the P-F RDS threads. Great stuff, and highly educational!

I recently had Stuart at CZC mount a Trijicon SRO (5MOA) on a CZ SP-01 pistol that was built at CGW. I have some previous experience with earlier model Leupold DPP's and Trijicon RMR's, both mounted on Gen3 Glock pistols (a G34 and a G17) via direct milling by Mark Housel.

This SRO is a completely different game compared to those earlier vintage optics, and although I haven't used the new SRO much so far, it is sighted in and I have done a fair amount of dry firing and presentations from the holster. As soon as it warms up and stops raining/snowing here at my place in north central AZ, it will be time put it to work. I REALLY like the window size on this optic! Will be shooting this combo in IDPA and local steel matches when they start up again.

My next project might be trying a RDS on an EDC pistol, but I have not yet settled on the platform, although I am almost certain the optic will be an RMR, or perhaps a second SRO.

Which brings me to my question, directed at George, but I would certainly welcome feedback from any forum members:

For those of you who have experience with both direct milled and MOS pistols, do you have a preference between the two approaches, and if so, why?

Thanks!

[GJM]

I've been doing my best today to catch up on all the P-F RDS threads. Great stuff, and highly educational!

I recently had Stuart at CZC mount a Trijicon SRO (5MOA) on a CZ SP-01 pistol that was built at CGW. I have some previous experience with earlier model Leupold DPP's and Trijicon RMR's, both mounted on Gen3 Glock pistols (a G34 and a G17) via direct milling by Mark Housel.

This SRO is a completely different game compared to those earlier vintage optics, and although I haven't used the new SRO much so far, it is sighted in and I have done a fair amount of dry firing and presentations from the holster. As soon as it warms up and stops raining/snowing here at my place in north central AZ, it will be time put it to work. I REALLY like the window size on this optic! Will be shooting this combo in IDPA and local steel matches when they start up again.

My next project might be trying a RDS on an EDC pistol, but I have not yet settled on the platform, although I am almost certain the optic will be an RMR, or perhaps a second SRO.

Which brings me to my question, directed at George, but I would certainly welcome feedback from any forum members:

For those of you who have experience with both direct milled and MOS pistols, do you have a preference between the two approaches, and if so, why?

Thanks!

Really depends on the pistol — what are you considering for EDC?

[1911Nut]

Really depends on the pistol — what are you considering for EDC?

Three or four being considered:

CZ Shadow Compact

Glock Gen5 G19

S&W M&P 2.0

CZ P-10C Compact

[GJM]

Three or four being considered:

CZ Shadow Compact

Glock Gen5 G19

S&W M&P 2.0

CZ P-10C Compact

Most hammer guns, including the CZ metals guns are a pain to do optics on. The best metal CZ optics arrangement I have used is the optics ready Shadow 2 slide. Ask YVK about his various broken screws and optics plates.

The Glock is the easy choice. Buy a G45 MOS or 19 MOS and start shooting.

I don’t know anything about M&P optics choices.

The P10 optics system is solid, but last I checked, there were not BUIS available.

[1911Nut]

Thanks for the feedback George. And an apology . . . . didn't realize until this morning that my questions(s) are quite redundant, as I found that this has been discussed fairly extensively in other threads on this forum!

[Gio]

Something isn’t right. Can you try a different optic?

I only have one DPP (https://www.primaryarms.com/leupold-deltapoint-pro-reflex-sight-2.5-moa). With an SRO, the gun shoots 1.5-2” for me, but I only use aftermarket plates and don’t have a trijicon mounting kit, so I still don’t know if it’s the DPP or the MOS plate.

I did have one MOS plate warp on me on this gun. This is the second plate I’ve used with the DPP (https://www.primaryarms.com/leupold-deltapoint-pro-reflex-sight-2.5-moa), and while it doesn’t appear this plate is warped, I’m not quite ready to blame the optic yet.

Here are pics of the warped MOS plate. The plate was locked down tight despite being warped, although after a 1000 rounds or so it was working itself loose, likely because of the amount of play seen here. When I take the plate off and lay it on a flat surface I can rock it back and forth and it doesn’t sit flush against the surface.
The gap between slide and plate is circled in red:
51792

Here I am pushing down on the back of the optic which pushes the plate down against the slide:
51793

[Gio]

Here’s some pictures of groups:

25 yds rested with DPP (https://www.primaryarms.com/leupold-deltapoint-pro-reflex-sight-2.5-moa) aiming center of uspsa head box, 4 shots. I didn’t measure but I’d guess 4” at least:
51904

25 yds rested with DPP (https://www.primaryarms.com/leupold-deltapoint-pro-reflex-sight-2.5-moa). 2 groups shown here. The taped brown is the first group. These measure 3” and 3.3” respectively:
51908

25 yds rested with irons. Same gun, same ammo. This one measures 1.6-1.7”
51905

15 yds standing unsupported with irons, same gun, same ammo. This one measures .775”
51907

[GJM]

Based on this additional info, I would toss that plate. If you need a spare, PM me, because I probably have a bunch of DP Pro plates not in use. In the 31 Pros my wife and I broke, maybe only one was having an issue with holding zero. The battery compartment design and holding zero are two of the strongest points of the Pro.

[Gio]

Based on this additional info, I would toss that plate. If you need a spare, PM me, because I probably have a bunch of DP Pro plates not in use. In the 31 Pros my wife and I broke, maybe only one was having an issue with holding zero. The battery compartment design and holding zero are two of the strongest points of the Pro.

Thanks for the offer, I am going 100% SRO (https://www.amazon.com/Trijicon-SRO-Sight-Adjustable-Black/dp/B07SCQ1S79) though for competition now, so don't see a need for them at this point. The warped plate was definitely bad, but the pictures of these groups were taken with a brand new/non-warped plate.

[45dotACP]

Damn...Gio is over here flexing with these sub 2" groups from a Glock and irons. [emoji38]

I had my best luck with a Gen 4 MOS and a vortex venom RDS, and even managed to whip out a few A level classifiers with it. I thought that was pretty pimp, so I took my carry gun, a Gen 5 Glock 19, to a smith to get it milled for a RMR. The idea was to carry it and compete with it, so I sold the 17 MOS.

But the dot flickered, even when using a plate and I just never could figure out how to make the G19 work for me. Was inaccurate, the loctite never held and the RMR got launched a ton.

I pretty much decided then that I didn't have the patience to deal with a finicky gun, so I switched divisions from carry optics to single stack.

And that is profound evidence that I'm mentally retarded.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[GJM]

Here is a single data point. I did not properly degrease the screws securing a CHWPS mount on a Shadow 2 Optics Ready slide with a SRO. As a result, the mount came loose, causing play in the optic. I shot it tight, then loose, then after removing the plate and reinstalling everything. The POI never changed and it was shooting 2.5 inch groups at 25 before and after.

[HCM]

Damn...Gio is over here flexing with these sub 2" groups from a Glock and irons. [emoji38]

I had my best luck with a Gen 4 MOS and a vortex venom RDS, and even managed to whip out a few A level classifiers with it. I thought that was pretty pimp, so I took my carry gun, a Gen 5 Glock 19, to a smith to get it milled for a RMR. The idea was to carry it and compete with it, so I sold the 17 MOS.

But the dot flickered, even when using a plate and I just never could figure out how to make the G19 work for me. Was inaccurate, the loctite never held and the RMR got launched a ton.

I pretty much decided then that I didn't have the patience to deal with a finicky gun, so I switched divisions from carry optics to single stack.

And that is profound evidence that I'm mentally retarded.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

What smith ?

Everyone and their brother is doing optics cuts now and some are pretty ugly. It pays to use an “A list” shop.

[45dotACP]

What smith ?

Everyone and their brother is doing optics cuts now and some are pretty ugly. It pays to use an “A list” shop.Trident defense. They're local to me, but their sponsored shooter at the time was pretty well known to me and I trust a company he puts his support in.

The fault really was in my own ineptitude regarding correctly torquing a screw and using the right thread locker.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Gio]

One more data point. Here’s a group with the SRO at 15 standing unsupported aiming at the letter C, mounted on a CH precision V3 plate:

51975