Training with an air pistol?

[randyflycaster]

Folks,

Shooting my 9mms are very expensive. I am thinking of buying an air pistol, so I am wondering how helpful would shooting an air pistol help me improve my trigger press.

Thanks so much,

Randy

[rd62]

Folks,

Shooting my 9mms are very expensive. I am thinking of buying an air pistol, so I am wondering how helpful would shooting an air pistol help me improve my trigger press.

Thanks so much,

Randy
If you are working trigger press dry fire can be a great tool

[randyflycaster]

When I dry fire the sights do not move. When I live fire my 9mm, well that is a different story. And then there's recoil that I have to control.

Thanks,

Randy

[Le Français]

Dry fire is a good recommendation, and a great way to practice your trigger control. Just set up a target that has a safe backstop, and focus on keeping a good sight picture all the way through the trigger pull. You can also incorporate drawing, reloads, target transitions, etc. It’s boring, but it’s free and beneficial to a lot of shooters, me included.

An air pistol would give you one thing that dry fire doesn’t: hit confirmation. But, it would fall short of dry fire in precisely replicating the feel of the trigger in live fire, and an air pistol may not fit in your EDC holster(s). Neither an air pistol nor dry fire would give you realistic recoil, of course.

ETA: In response to your second post: Do you think that the reason for the sight-movement difference between dry fire and live fire is recoil anticipation/flinching? If so, I doubt that an air pistol would help much. Perhaps you could try ball-and-dummy drills in which you mix dummy rounds in with live rounds in each magazine. That can help reduce recoil anticipation, or at least make it quite obvious.

[Old Virginia]

I have been training with Air Pistols for decades. Huge benefit. Great For POINT and SHOOT skills. All kinds of targets and drills. Some really nice replica gun out there. In Europe, Iron Plate shooting is very competitive. I have a range in my back yard, and in my garage.

[0ddl0t]

I have not found my air pistol clone to be that useful for training. It is lighter & doesn't balance the same, the trigger doesn't feel the same, it has no recoil, it does not shoot to the same point of impact beyond ~5 yards, and it is time consuming to reload especially every 3rd or so magazine when the CO2 cartridge runs out.

It was a little useful for <5 yard point shooting, but a laser would do the same thing for even cheaper.

[Old Virginia]

I have not found my air pistol clone to be that useful for training. It is lighter & doesn't balance the same, the trigger doesn't feel the same, it has no recoil, it does not shoot to the same point of impact beyond ~5 yards, and it is time consuming to reload especially every 3rd or so magazine when the CO2 cartridge runs out.

It was a little useful for <5 yard point shooting, but a laser would do the same thing for even cheaper.

Laser? Sorry no comparison, Not even close. You do not need recoil for Point and shoot skills. Not sure what gun you have, but you do not seem to be in the same world I have been in for the past couple of decades. Time consuming? It takes about a 15 seconds to load a Co2 cartridge. How long does it take you to drive to a range. You do not have to have the same exact gun as your carry. I have about 15 different models.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEDuJQWiaRE

[rd62]

When I dry fire the sights do not move. When I live fire my 9mm, well that is a different story. And then there's recoil that I have to control.

Thanks,

Randy

That sounds more like recoil control than trigger control. If the sights dont move during dryfire sou ds like your trigger press is solid. If they move during live fire either its a flich or recoil control. I've found a .22lr trainer of my G19 to be a valuable. It has the same sights, trigger, and holster as my carry/competition guns. An air pistol is just too different for me in all but looks. Though they are fun to shoot. I gotta say though that although cheaper to shoot, I'm not sure either would be much help with a flinch or recoil management. What kind of issue do you have and perhaps we could help suggest the most effective means to train its improvement? With 9mm the sights are going to move... its just how much, how you track them, and how effective of a next sight picture you can get quickly. Good luck in your training!

[Old Virginia]

I would say Join a Air gun forum and start learning what they can really do would be a way to start. No offense, but if a person is really interested they are not going to get a lot of useful information from a Powder burner forum. There is a whole lot more to it than can be said here. And a reason why many train with them. And not only Pistols, but rifle competition is very competitive. I own a few Custom Spring Power Rifles that run about $600-800. PCP's can go into the thousands. Bench rest, field Competition, and on and on.

[0ddl0t]

I'm sure there are much better models than my airgun, but I wanted to practice with a clone of my carry pistol in my carry holster wearing my everyday clothing. The biggest disadvantage of this is the same for dry fire: it is very easy to "cheat your grip" and get acceptable results that would actually be detrimental with your carry pistol.


I've found the laser to be a much better training tool. Point your gun where you think it is on target and hold the laser switch on: instant feedback how far off you aimed. Even better is dry firing: You can easily see the laser dip 3" on the wall across the room, but that same pistol movement barely moves the sights. This is also true in live fire: I can't tell you how many times I (and every other astute observer at the range) have seen my laser dip slightly just before the shot breaks - telling everyone I had a preignition push... I can also see whether the laser goes straight up in recoil and, if not, play around with my grip until it does.


The airgun is more fun to get that plink plink audible feedback, but I just haven't found it that useful for developing the muscle & coordination skills to control a real-life snappy pistol.

[Alpha Sierra]

When I dry fire the sights do not move. When I live fire my 9mm, well that is a different story. And then there's recoil that I have to control.

Thanks,

Randy

None of which will be helped by a pistol that has almost no recoil.

My suggestions are for you to improve your strength in your fingers, wrists, arms, shoulders, and chest; and to improve your grip technique with the aid of a coach and the firing of full power ammunition.

You also need to get rid of that anticipation flinch.

[BN]

I have a Glock and an STI Airsoft. The Glock didn't fit my holsters but it is fun anyway. :) Here's a fun video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pE728I7370

[Old Virginia]

I enjoy shooting often. And it has taken years to develop the point and shoot skills I have acquired. Eye muscle to mind skills IMO need to be done often and on a diligent schedule. You can argue that a Air Pistol is not the same thing as a gun that will recoil, but IMO recoil is nothing but coming back to the target and moving your eye and hand back on that target or another target as fast as possible. Maybe it does not work for you, that is fine. But here is a fact, he sure works for me. During the ammo shortage, I went to the Air Pistols on a regular basis. Actually because of the convenience of a range in the back yard and one in the garage, I was shooting almost daily. When I returned to shooting the powder burners, I was amazed at how much I had improved. Shooting targets daily, from multiple tin cans, to shotgun shells to throwing cans in the air and shooting them. Shooting over and over at a cost much less than even a 22.cal. For me, it works and it works well.

I also love shooting air rifles, here is a past time that I love. I call it wind shooting. I take a day with a slight breeze and my goal is to shoot the center vein of a leaf. It takes a lot of patience to find the precise time that you can release the trigger.

https://i.imgur.com/nQeXdWi.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/UsrdBjP.jpg?3

[randyflycaster]

Folks,

Thanks so much for all your help. To save money, I just started shooting a Ruger LCP II .22. The trigger press is about the same as my 9mms, and there is some recoil. With the .22 I'm still shooting to the side, so I am still suffering from the same shooting defects - jerking the trigger, milking the gun - but the gun is small and I can't grip it the way I can grip my CZ and Glock. Also, I don't like the sights. But shooting .22 ammo is a lot cheaper than shooting 9mm, and I am finding the Ruger challenging to shoot. (With my target .22 Mark III I was dead on. I guess the trigger press is much lighter, and there is no recoil, so I didn't feel I was improving when I shot it.)

Randy

[Alpha Sierra]

Have you thought about buying a 22LR slide conversion kit for your CZ?

http://shop.cz-usa.com/SearchByKeyword?word=kadet

[rd62]

Have you thought about buying a 22LR slide conversion kit for your CZ?

http://shop.cz-usa.com/SearchByKeyword?word=kadet
Seconded. Same trigger, better training value.

[CraigS]

I have a BB pistol that stands in for my Beretta 92. Trigger is not exact, and of course there is no recoil. But from the draw to the BB hitting the target I think it is very good practice. No recoil to control but I can do it in the basement all winter long for peanuts. You just have to find one that actually works like a real gun. In my case, one version has a silly little cylinder that holds 8 pellets and the CO2 cartridge fits into the grip. The good one has the CO2 cartridge in the magazine which also holds 18 BBs. It is near identical in weight and size to a stock magazine. The slide cycles and the safety works.

[Duke]

Just switch to a dvc-p in 9mm.

Dry fire and live fire will be the same recoil.

Kidding. Sort of.....

[randyflycaster]

Never thought of buying an adapter. I will certainly look into it.

Randy

[Packy]

For the sake of the existance of Recoil with the airsoft GBB, i no longer dry fire much my handguns.
I use the recoil of the GBB to TRACK the front sight and have it return consistently on the target naturally.

Sent from my SM-P205 using Tapatalk

[rodralig]

Well, the nice thing, too, about Airsoft is that it is less of trigger feel or recoil, but more of vision and transitions with the hit confirmation.

As most would know, the biggest gains in competitive/action shooting would be in the target recognition (how to engage based on acceptable sight picture) and transitions. And taking it a step further - as those that took JJ Racaza and/or Christian Sailer's classes - the difference between "Attack" VS "Control" targets can establish rhythms for shooting...

I just started my routine a few days back...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd58-rxRnsU


Targets are setup at 7-yards to 15-yards scaled. The steel are at the 15-yards.


Cheers,


_

[feudist]

I wouldn't recommend ditching dry fire totally. While certainly valuable in their own right, lasers and airsoft share the "shortcoming" of livefire: you focus on

the outcome(hit or miss) as opposed to the process-where dry fire shines.Attention to the process of trigger control, index building and

holding drills is best achieved dry. I have a SIRT and an airsoft and see them as more expanding live fire-hitting practice, shooting from bad positions,

draw speed-things some people aren't allowed to practice at indoor ranges.

I also have a 10 meter Olympic pellet pistol(IZH46m) that I enjoy shooting. The trigger is less than 4 ounces. It's interesting to approach the bullseye

with a trigger that soft.

YMMV.

[revolvergeek]

i have a couple of SIRT laser training pistols that get a lot of use around the office. One full sized glock and the other their pocket pistol. We have done all sort of instruction here with them and I worked extensively with a couple of our new hires that had no handgun background using them. They also allow practice drawing and firing from duty (at least the glock) or concealment rigs, point shooting at very close range, some weapon retention drills, etc. in a 'real' environment in complete safety. I 'shoot' the doorknob down the hall across from my office door a lot while on conference calls. In my opinion they are well worth the cost.

I love airguns, but these things get way more use for me.

[DueSpada]

Well, yes, but there's nothing quite like the pure, evil fun of kicking open the back door and drilling those bandit raccoons, squirrels and the neighbor's cat with the stinging retribution of bb's and airsofts. From the hip.

[revolvergeek]

Well, yes, but there's nothing quite like the pure, evil fun of kicking open the back door and drilling those bandit raccoons, squirrels and the neighbor's cat with the stinging retribution of bb's and airsofts. From the hip.

I have used an electric airsoft Thompson to chase a squirrel out of the outside trash can and out of the parking lot at work once or twice..... :cool: looks like tracers going after an old fighter plane!