snub caliber Q [Archive] - pistol-forum.com

Earlymonk

03-07-2020, 05:40 PM

Wingate's Hairbrush

03-07-2020, 06:04 PM

CALIBER WAR! ;)

Pass on .22 (presume you mean LR, but same for magnum) in a self-defense role for ballistic and reliability reasons. Yes, .22 can do the job, and I'd take it over a spoon, but there's a reason virtually no one who has options chooses it for SD -- it's just far less likely to produce the desired effects versus, say, service calibers (which as we all know are already anemic in their own right, so why further handicap).

And rimfire ammo is notoriously less reliable compared to factory manufactured centerfire. Again, why handicap?

Of your choices, 9mm is to me a no-brainer. (But in a revolver I'd go .38/.357 so you aren't dependent on moon clips or more complicated extractor systems. Just sayin' ;)).

Mitch

03-07-2020, 06:12 PM

Bigghoss

03-07-2020, 07:04 PM

I had a 9mm Ruger LCR, it was quite snappy. The .38 has less kick and is a lighter gun plus you can use speed strips which are easier to conceal.

If you're dead set on .22 or 9mm, get the 9mm.

mmc45414

03-07-2020, 07:05 PM

9mm

Accepted/legit SD round
And…?

IMO your question is based around two non-optimal choices, but neither of them are worse than the option of nothing.

Does "And?" mean you might have a bunch of other 9mm pistols and keep ammo around?
If we are talking LCR (there is no J-Frame current 9mm option) then they are heavier, the 22 and 38 LCRs are molded around aluminum and the 357 and 9mm are molded around stainless.
ETA: If you have a bunch of experience shooting 357 and 44 revolvers, getting the 9mm would be more optimal.

I dunno about your experience level, but the 9mm in my limited experience was not that sporty, but interesting. Also, if you put the bigger grip from the 3" LCRx on one (they are cheap) they would probably be nice. Bigger than pocket carry, but lots of other NAG options. I like the 9mm LCR idea, and might get one.

And would you shoot either of these more than if you got a 38 (assuming J-Frame or LCR)? You would be, IMO, better off with a 22 that you shot a thousand times than a 38 you shot ten times.

With the 9mm you either have to screw around with moon clips or screw around with pushing the spent cases out with a pencil.

A big aspect of this decision criteria would be if there is a major focus on pocket carry. If so, it probably precludes a larger grip on the LCR and you might not want 9mm with a small grip. With a 22 LCR it would be fun, and could be justified if you shoot a bunch. If you are only going to familiarize yourself with it then you would be better off with the 38.

I also like the S&W 317 3", you can put a little bigger grip on it like the Altamont Bateleur, and have a very light compact fun gun that you could practice with till you were in the position to make a subsequent decision, and it would carry easily, just not in a pocket.
ETA: weight is IMO a big aspect of NAG portability. the 3" 317 only weighs 11.7oz. The J-Frame 22s have aluminum cylinders.

Another aspect of this is if this is a transition, or the last one you will ever buy. You could get a 22 and decide in a few thousand rounds if you want a 9mm or 38.

deflave

03-07-2020, 08:45 PM

22LR in a snub has an immeasurable amount of utility.

Probably one of the most versatile firearms ever produced.

Clusterfrack

03-07-2020, 08:58 PM

When Mrs. CF agreed to carry a gun on our trip to Alaska, we got her an LCR 9mm and added a green CT laser grip. She doesn't love shooting, or guns. But she shoots this little gun really well. Recoil with 147gr HST or Ranger isn't awful. It's not something you want to put 100's of rounds through in one session, but it's fine.

I like that there is readily available, vetted defense ammo for this gun. It can take ammo from a speed strip for a reload after ejecting a moon clip.

Also, if you reload, you can load up some puppy loads for practice that are very nice to shoot.

Jared

03-07-2020, 09:02 PM

I flat do not like moon clips. I’ve had more than one moon clip gun. Never have kept one of them long. I’ve promised myself no more moon clip guns. It’s just more of a pain in the ass than I like to deal with.

I do have a 22LR a LCR and a 3” 22LR LCRx. They’re mostly trainers and kit guns for me. That said, I had a spell with some pretty extreme low back pain where I carried the 22 LCR for about a week. It was the lightest thing I had and it didn’t exacerbate the already severe pain I was in. Once that cleared up I went right back to my normal setup of PX4CC and 357 LCR (loaded with 38s)

So between 9mm and 22LR, I guess I’d go 22LR. Really though, I’d either get a 38 or a 357 loaded with 38s. I understand not wanting to futz with adding another caliber if you’re using exclusively 22LR and 9mm now. However, a snub revolver that can chamber 38 Special is so extremely useful that I cannot imagine being without one. That makes it worth stocking the extra cartridges to me.

mmc45414

03-07-2020, 09:47 PM

When Mrs. CF agreed to carry a gun on our trip to Alaska, we got her an LCR 9mm and added a green CT laser grip.
Like these?
49611

Clusterfrack

03-07-2020, 10:44 PM

Like these?
49611

Exactly. The green laser is daylight visible.

RevolverRob

03-08-2020, 12:03 AM

The trouble with the SP101 is it is really kinda heavy for the ankle or pocket. Thus eliminating two great carry methods for a “Rule 1” gun. They are also too heavy to do the slip-on appendix holster and gym shorts thing with.

You have to get down around 16oz or less to make them work in all of those roles.

Which means if you want a 9mm gun the Ruger LCR is your Huckleberry.

-

Let’s talk about 9mm vs. 38 Special for a minute -

If you own another .38 Special revolver, you can buy an Airweight J-frame, which is a bit smaller than the LCR in most dimensions and load it with 148-grain wadcutters. You have other .38s so you should have WCs on hand in general.

If you do not own another .38 revolver - don’t start now - when the 9mm LCR will do everything an Airweight J can do, except it’s an ounce or two heavier and a wee-bit bigger.

The only things I don’t like about the LCR is the slightly bigger size, the stock grips from Ruger (too sticky for pocket carry) and that the 9mm guns need a different height front sight from the .38/.357 guns.

If I had zero revolvers and was starting out today the 9mm LCR is what I would get.

Rock185

03-08-2020, 02:56 AM

I admit I am a bit biased, but I think the 9MM has the most utility. That being said, most shooters would likely prefer a traditional .357/.38 Spcl. "snub". Were I looking for a current production 9MM snub, I'd sure consider one of the Ruger LCRs. Light weight and very smooth DA trigger. FWIW, the .22 rimfire revolvers tend to have a heavier mainspring to endure reliable ignition of rimfire ammo. A neighbor bought his adult daughter a .22 LCR. He said she couldn't pull the trigger. He traded it back in, and got her a centerfire LCR with a lighter trigger pull.

As to ammunition, the most popular centerfire pistol cartridge on the planet has vast array of ammunition types available. And 9MM ballistics from 2"-3" revolvers are more impressive than many might realize. It might seem counter-intuitive, but using the same ammo the little 2"-3" revolvers produce velocities comparable to 4" semi-auto pistols.The down side is that those ballistics produce recoil that is not quite as gentle as might be hoped.

I never particularly cared for compact revolvers, but have owned and carried a few along the way. The little revolvers are just very practical for concealed carry IMHO. I have .38 Spcl. revolvers, but like the 9MM snubbies too. I have a S&W 940 and Ruger SP101 in 9MM. I agree the SP101, even in 2" form, is a bit heavy....

deflave

03-08-2020, 05:59 AM

I lived in a rural part of Montana for ten years and my LCR in 22LR was a constant companion. From September - March I was in the field at least three days a week and the one handgun I always had was my LCR. I admit that I laughed when they first came out but gave it a try regardless. In the field I'd put it in a Fobus paddle holster and it is so comfortable to carry I'd usually forget I had it on. In town, I'd just put it IWB using the clip I attached to it.

Trapline? Forgetaboutit.

Snakes? Yep.

Gopher? Of course.

Bored and want to shoot a rock? Here you go.

Cottontails? All day.

And you know how everybody has a bunch of stray 22LR rolling around their floorboard or stuck away in an old ziplock bag? The LCR is great for cleaning those up.

I taught my son and my wife to shoot DA with it and I don't think I've ever let somebody shoot it that didn't run out and buy one that same week.

I would never be without one.

https://i.imgur.com/iXryFk9.jpg

Earlymonk

03-08-2020, 04:13 PM

Thanks, all!

A quick summary thus far...

OP
9mm (but .38/.357 really)
.38/.357
.38/.357 (9mm, if limited to the original two choices)
good reasons for either
.22
9mm with green CT
.22 (but .38/.357 really)
a visual question
an affirmative answer
9mm (OP has zero revolvers)
9mm (but probably .38/.357)
evidence for post #6

...has 9mm ahead of .22 by a score of 5-2, if limited to those two choices, but with the caveat that moon clips can be problematic.

What's interesting is that .38 got 5 votes as a better choice than either, with quotes like "Common things are common for a reason." and "I understand not wanting to futz with adding another caliber if you’re using exclusively 22LR and 9mm now. However, a snub revolver that can chamber 38 Special is so extremely useful that I cannot imagine being without one. That makes it worth stocking the extra cartridges to me."

Looks like another P-F Clue! :)

Baldanders

03-08-2020, 04:42 PM

If "kit gun" is up there on your needs, .22. Yes, it's crappy for self-defense, but odds of blasting bunnies and squirrels are about 1000 times likelier than a self-defense shooting. And you will do a lot more shooting.

I don't much like .38 +p 125 grain out of Airweights, I doubt I would like 9mm at all. (Somehow, I am fine with low-end .357 out of steeel j-frames) .38 would be better than 9mm, IMO.

If you are handloading, I would argue for .32 H&R mag. More shots and lower recoil than 9mm, and fine for kit gun duties, adequate for self-defense.

Crazy Dane

03-08-2020, 05:04 PM

I recently made my choice after going through a very similar and painstaking decision. My choices were 9mm vs 38/357 vs 327 in a LCR or SP101. S&W is a nogo for reasons. It came down to ammo availability, cost, commonality and a very subjective, the 357 is loud and obnoxious. For these reasons 9mm won out along with the lighter LCR to meet mission requirements. Moon clips weighed on my decision but with past experience with a M-25, I find the right moon clips are very durable. Just like mags I will have a set of "carry only" clips and the rest will be regulated to training. I have been carrying 3 moon clips daily for a durability test. One each from TK Custom, Speed Bees and Ruger loaded with 147 FMJs. They have been carried in pants, jackets, murses and the door pockets in the truck and they get shot once a week and inspected for damage. I have only bent a Ruger clip and it was fixed with the needle nose on a Gerber tool. I expected the recoil to be more than what is actually there so that is a good thing. I can get through 200 rounds before I call it quits. The only mod I have done is file the finger groove down because my fat fingers was on top of it and I will probably change out the front to the XS dot.

mmc45414

03-08-2020, 06:30 PM

What's interesting is that .38 got 5 votes as a better choice than either …
However, a snub revolver that can chamber 38 Special is so extremely useful that I cannot imagine being without one. That makes it worth stocking the extra cartridges to me.
AndOhByTheWay, when you go shopping the more common 38s are cheaper than either of your two proposed options.

ETA: 9mm is interesting to me, more for the ballistics than the compatibility, because I will always reload for 38. But it seems like the ballistics might fall into the sweet spot of being more than the 38 without being silly in a short barrel like the 357. I also think the 357 snub problem is more a problem with commercially available ammo, but that is probably a different thread.

Old Virginia

03-08-2020, 06:45 PM

Love the LCR99. No problem shooting 40 moon clips each session. Great ballistics, moon clips are so easy to use. Recoil for me is this side of pleasant before going harsh. I think this topic was in more detail on another thread. Might want to check that out.

The LCR22 is one fantastic trainer and a whole lot of fun. And one thing about recoil, the more you shoot them the more you become immune to it. The LCR99 is not a hard gun to shoot. Performs exceptionally well.

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/search?q=lcr+9mm

https://i.imgur.com/V3cfVEl.jpg?6

Clusterfrack

03-08-2020, 06:49 PM

Here's a review of the 9mm LCR. The ballistics are surprisingly good--comparable to a 3" auto because of the added freebore in the 9mm cylinder.
http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2014/11/ruger-lcr-9mm-review-pocket-9mm-for.html

I have had zero issues with Speedbeez moonclips.

EDIT: :-) looks like Old Virginia beat me to the same post by a few seconds!

Earlymonk

03-08-2020, 06:56 PM

when you go shopping the more common 38s are cheaper than either of your two proposed options.

Not tracking here...

Are you saying .38 is cheaper than 9mm and .22?

mmc45414

03-08-2020, 07:01 PM

Are you saying .38 is cheaper than 9mm and .22?
The revolvers typically are. 38 is the high volume product, the 22 and especially the 9mm are more specialized.

Alpha Sierra

03-08-2020, 07:16 PM

Decided (with help here) to get a snub for the outstanding job it does in the "not-a-gun" role.
Wondering about caliber though: If you were going to standardize on .22 or 9mm, which do you think has the most utility?

In the .22s favor:

trainer
kit gun
(less than ideal) SD gun, at least according to Ellifritz and "Henry, The Old Man from Tennessee” (https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/real-world-22s-for-self-defense) and Chris Baker (https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-a-22-lr-pocket-gun-should-not-be-underestimated/)
higher capacity
cheaper to feed

9mm

Accepted/legit SD round
And…?

9mm snubs sound like they are handful, unless you go with something heavier like an SP101, which starts to drift away (in size and weight) from the “not a gun” mission.

Thoughts? What else should I take into consideration?

Do you really think that adding a box or three of 38 Special to your gun room will create massive confusion?

There comes a point where the standardization affectation so popular here becomes just ridiculous and stupid.

Refusing to consider the world's most popular revolver cartridge when shopping for a revolver because it isn't one of the two you've standardized on passed that point and keeps on going.

Just buy a 38 Special sub and half a case of ammo.

It's not like 38 Special hasn't been and isn't a "vetted" self defense cartridge...............

Clusterfrack

03-08-2020, 07:37 PM

oregon45

03-08-2020, 07:53 PM

Game on! I get that people who are into revolvers like .38. But for people like me, I'm thinking why bother with this caliber when there's a better option? It's easy to argue that 9mm does everything better than .38 when it comes to defensive use.

Except work without moonclips, unless you have one of the relatively rare S&W 547 revolvers. If you are willing to live with moon clips, and their various deficiencies with respect to everyday carry (bulk and fragility, to name two) and if you also are willing to experience noticeably greater recoil in similar rounds (9mm’s higher chamber pressure makes recoil noticeably sharper than 38spl, even when comparing 9mm 124gr FMJ to 38spl 130gr FMJ), then you are correct that 9mm is a better choice than 38spl for defensive use due, primarily, to the greater variety of quality ammunition. I don’t see moonclips as a decisive argument in favor of 9mm in a small revolver because my experience has been that, with hollow point bullets especially, it is very easy to hang up a moonclip reload on the cylinder mouth of a 9mm revolver.

Having had both in as identical of guns as possible (S&W 640 and 940), I prefer 38spl due to the easy availability of factory low-recoil loads. I can duplicate those loads in 9mm easily by hand loading, to be sure, but I prefer not to use handloads for carry.

Jared

03-08-2020, 08:15 PM

One of the best 38 Special options for defense is the 148 grain target wadcutter. It also happens to be a very low recoil load. And it’s a factory option, no need to hand load bunny fart loads to extend range sessions, the bunny cart load can be bought right in the store/online. Or, obviously, you can reload your own at whatever power level you want.

Again, I hate moon clips, and I have enough experience to be comfortable in that assessment. 2 Smith 625s, one Smith 929, and one Smith 986. I’ve learned to never say never, but the odds of me going to a moon clip gun again are extremely slim. Even if it’s just a range toy, I don’t like them. For SD, I don’t trust them.

Then there’s the crimp jump possibility in 9mm. There’s a greater risk of 9mm bullets sliding forward during recoil and binding the cylinder than 38 Special ammo. I know, I know, someone is gonna post that they’ve got 10k rounds on their LCR in 9mm and never had it happen. That’s cool. I’ve also seen enough reports of it happening that it makes me more cautious of using a 9mm snub revolver for SD.

I do realize that 9mm ammo is cheaper. The best 9mm SD loads outperform the best 38 loads. But I firmly believe the good 38 loads are adequate. As I recently heard it said, “when it comes to handgun ammo performance shot placement is the king, penetration is the queen, and the rest is angels dancing on pinheads.”

ETA: I don’t know how the current LCRs and SP101s are doing, but another issue that comes up from time to time with 9mm revolvers is very sticky extraction of empties. Was apparently a very common issue with the J frame 9s.

Crazy Dane

03-08-2020, 08:51 PM

Do you really think that adding a box or three of 38 Special to your gun room will create massive confusion?

There comes a point where the standardization affectation so popular here becomes just ridiculous and stupid.

Refusing to consider the world's most popular revolver cartridge when shopping for a revolver because it isn't one of the two you've standardized on passed that point and keeps on going.

Just buy a 38 Special sub and half a case of ammo.

It's not like 38 Special hasn't been and isn't a "vetted" self defense cartridge...............

If money was not a problem, I would just order all of my ammo by the pallet and stack it in my private ammo bunker. Getting back to reality, the cost of ammo has driven my ammo standardization of my primary self defense weapons. Buy a snub and half a case of ammo only works if you plan to shoot 5 rounds once a year then stick the gun back in the sock drawer. The day I picked up my LCR I shot 200 rounds through it and the 3 moon clips that came with it. Shooting 9mm lets me shoot more. Just for giggles I did a quick price check for decent brass cased ammo, price per round- 9mm $.18, 38 special $.24, 357 mag $.35 . I'm sure that you could find cheaper if one was to put more than the 3 minutes of time in that it took to find those prices.

Except work without moonclips, unless you have one of the relatively rare S&W 547 revolvers. If you are willing to live with moon clips, and their various deficiencies with respect to everyday carry (bulk and fragility, to name two) and if you also are willing to experience noticeably greater recoil in similar rounds (9mm’s higher chamber pressure makes recoil noticeably sharper than 38spl, even when comparing 9mm 124gr FMJ to 38spl 130gr FMJ), then you are correct that 9mm is a better choice than 38spl for defensive use due, primarily, to the greater variety of quality ammunition. I don’t see moonclips as a decisive argument in favor of 9mm in a small revolver because my experience has been that, with hollow point bullets especially, it is very easy to hang up a moonclip reload on the cylinder mouth of a 9mm revolver.

Having had both in as identical of guns as possible (S&W 640 and 940), I prefer 38spl due to the easy availability of factory low-recoil loads. I can duplicate those loads in 9mm easily by hand loading, to be sure, but I prefer not to use handloads for carry.

If I did a search I wonder how many "just a snub and a speed strip for a reload" I would find? The LCRs work just fine with out the moon clips. Carry the LCR with a moon clip and 10 round 1911 mag if you're afraid of bending extra moons. I have to ask, is there some sort of magic with speedloaders and hollow points for 38/357? I don't own one so I don't know but I don't have a problem with moons full of HSTs dropping in.

Alpha Sierra

03-09-2020, 03:51 AM

deflave

03-09-2020, 08:14 AM

I had to google "affectation."

jetfire

03-09-2020, 08:29 AM

The real question here isn't "which should you get" but rather "what's your primary use case?" If your primary use case is a general purpose revolver that can do a lot of different things, then the .22 LR is your best choice by a mile. No questions. But if your primary use case is "defensive revolver" then the 9mm is superior. You can mitigate some of the issues associated with moonclips buy spending a few extra bucks on support gear, and accepting that you'll never be able to carry a reload for the gun in your pocket.

Without knowing what your intended use case is, I'd recommend the .22 LR because it does more stuff, ammo is cheaper, and it's more fun to shoot than a 9mm LCR.

SAWBONES

03-09-2020, 08:46 AM

Another support-vote for .38 Special in "snubbies".

I view the 9mm/.38 Special choice in snub revolvers similarly to the option of 9mm in 1911-design pistols; with enough fussing and vetting and acceptance of disadvantages, it can be made to work, but...why?

If you want a good, reliable, accurate, easily carried and easily employed 9mm pistol, there are many already available, and
if you're simply a devotee of John Browning's pistol design (I am, and yes, I know Colt's history with the 9mm Commander), just stick with .45 Auto in the M1911. That cartridge has been tested, fiddled with, all its fine details accounted for and pretty much ironed out more than perhaps any other pistol/cartridge combination you can name.

In little snubies, the .38 Special cartridge has been used far longer and more extensively than 9mm.
The idea that the longer empty space in front of the bullet in 9mm revolver cylinders is "freebore" isn't quite correct; it's not freebore (the space ahead of the actual chamber, before rifling begins, which in a revolver would be distal to the forcing cone), it's empty space before the forcing cone, which the bullet must "jump" without the constraint or gas-seal of barrel before contacting the forcing cone, during which gas pressure is lost. If having more rather than less empty space there were an actual advantage, rifle chambers would be made differently. It does seem to work OK with the 9mm-snubby cylinder combination, but it's a fortunate accommodation, not any sort of advantage, and it takes extra trouble to keep the empty forward-chamber space clean, too.

I very much dislike having to depend upon moon clips. They bend quite easily and aren't easily made to work reliably or easily once bent. I've tried 'em (I even got one of Matt Del Fatti's patented moon clip carriers years ago), and decided they're just weren't worth the trouble.

Finally, we're talking about a "compromise" gun/cartridge combination when discussing small, lightweight "snubbies" for CCW. Capacity is low, reloading is, at best, far slower (no, don't tell me about Jerry Mikulek and moon clips) and more difficult than with semiautos, and while intrinsic accuracy and precision may well be as good as with longer sight-radius guns, nonetheless practical and fast accuracy (in my clumsy older hands) ain't up to snuff with any 9mm semiauto pistol, so information about 9mm chamber pressures, ballistic performance or "ammunition commonality with my semiauto primary" as compared to .38 Special, really doesn't matter enough to me to tip the scales in favor of the semiauto 9mm cartridge in snubbies.

Hey, I'm expressing considered opinions here, and if you love your 9mm snubby, "more power to ya". :cool:
All mine are in .38 Special, though, except for a few .357 magnums.

Old Virginia

03-09-2020, 09:01 AM

Not surprising that many send their revolvers off to get cut for moon clips. They work great, they can be fast to load, etc. The LCR9mm is not much more different than shooting the Airweight 38. Again, the more you shoot the more immune you get to the recoil. Yes, when I first started shooting the 9mm, I could feel it. Now do not even think about it.

The 9mm has so many benefits. None of the harsh recoil of the 357, not as loud as the 327, abundance of ammo choices, cost less, and already cut for moon clips. What do you want? Eggs with your beer?

SCCY Marshal

03-09-2020, 10:53 AM

I cast my lot with the 22 Long Rifle. Backcountry camping is that much more satisfying when I can buck one or more soggy rounds off the wood destined to split for firewood, stand them up in front of a natural berm, toss in ear plugs, and shoot some ball and dummy (shoot, spin cylinder, repeat) at them on and off through the day.

Clusterfrack

03-09-2020, 11:04 AM

I can’t believe I’m in a revolver caliber debate. But I’m still not convinced by the moonclips are bad argument.

5 rounds in a functional moonclip go in the gun. 5 rounds in a strip go in your pocket. If you need more, you might want to carry an auto?

Also, the small 5-shot speedbeez clips are pretty tough. I’m having a hard time seeing how one would get bent in a pocket.

deflave

03-09-2020, 01:46 PM

mmc45414

03-09-2020, 01:49 PM

I can’t believe I’m in a revolver caliber debate.
I can't believe this turned into an argument.
We have so many great choices right now. I have seven 38/357 revolvers, including five J-Frames, ETA: and I got my eye on a couple more, and I am intrigued by the 9mm LCR. Probably mostly because I am a gun nerd, but seems like the short barrel revolver could benefit from the option for a cartridge that was designed as a high pressure round instead of something that was derived from a low pressure black powder round, without going full nutty with 357. ETA: The standard pressure 147gn rounds seem to hold on to their performance better as the barrel gets shorter, we are essentially talking about a G43/Shield in a revolver format.
Oh, and I also still want that 317...

But I’m still not convinced by the moonclips are bad argument. 5 rounds in a functional moonclip go in the gun. 5 rounds in a strip go in your pocket. If you need more, you might want to carry an auto?
On the occasions when I have a J-Frame as primary 5+5 is the most I have. The OP started the thread around discussion of a gun that is Not A Gun, but might get toted in circumstances that the forty ounce auto gets left behind.

Also, the small 5-shot speedbeez clips are pretty tough. I’m having a hard time seeing how one would get bent in a pocket.Some people separate carry mags from range mags, having a vetted moonclip that doesn't get loaded and unloaded much might be a good idea. And the whole moonclip idea came from a military need. The original implementation was a three round clip, maybe in this scenario of using the clip only for ejection it could be severed with a little cutoff wheel into a 2/3 two piece arrangement that would be less prone to potential bending and binding.

Maybe because this was presented as a poll the inclination is to declare a winner, when each option has advantages and drawbacks.

Gun Mutt

03-09-2020, 03:15 PM

I have a .22LR LCR and I flat out love it. I wouldn't mind having one in 9mm.
But the next one I buy will be in .327 and loaded with .32H&R magnums.

Clusterfrack

03-09-2020, 04:04 PM

I can't believe this turned into an argument.

:D I don't feel like I'm arguing. But my comment about being surprised by entering in a revolver caliber debate was aimed at myself. I don't like revolvers, and would own zero if I weren't convinced that 1) they are a useful defense tool for some situations, and 2) Mrs. CF dislikes it slightly less than an auto.

So maybe my choice of the 9mm LCR makes more sense in this context?

Half Moon

03-09-2020, 04:24 PM

And the whole moonclip idea came from a military need. The original implementation was a three round clip, maybe in this scenario of using the clip only for ejection it could be severed with a little cutoff wheel into a 2/3 two piece arrangement that would be less prone to potential bending and binding

Experience with .45 ACP N Frames is half moons are more prone to issues than full moon. As I understand it the half moons were never intended for more than a single use. I load half moons with FMJ for practice and full moons with defense ammo. Makes it easy to know what you have by feel.

I've never had a full moon bend. Then again I'm using 45 ACP in 6 shot steel moons. No idea how these compare to 9 mm moons for durability.

On the overall topic: I'm in the 38 Special camp. Expansion out of snubs is not something I expect so penetration and accuracy are my ammo goals. Wadcutter hits those goals with light recoil to boot. Plus in lighter weight 9 mm snubs you have potential issues with the bullet separating from the cartridge. Why lower the revolvers one advantage of reliability in the feed cycle?

revolvergeek

03-09-2020, 04:48 PM

Except work without moonclips, unless you have one of the relatively rare S&W 547 revolvers. If you are willing to live with moon clips, and their various deficiencies with respect to everyday carry (bulk and fragility, to name two) and if you also are willing to experience noticeably greater recoil in similar rounds (9mm’s higher chamber pressure makes recoil noticeably sharper than 38spl, even when comparing 9mm 124gr FMJ to 38spl 130gr FMJ), then you are correct that 9mm is a better choice than 38spl for defensive use due, primarily, to the greater variety of quality ammunition. I don’t see moonclips as a decisive argument in favor of 9mm in a small revolver because my experience has been that, with hollow point bullets especially, it is very easy to hang up a moonclip reload on the cylinder mouth of a 9mm revolver.

Having had both in as identical of guns as possible (S&W 640 and 940), I prefer 38spl due to the easy availability of factory low-recoil loads. I can duplicate those loads in 9mm easily by hand loading, to be sure, but I prefer not to use handloads for carry.

I have tried to love 9mmP revolvers time and again and just never have stuck with one. My experience with moon clips for the Taurus ?905? and Ruger LCR is basically as described above. Great in theory for carry but I kept bending them to where I either could not close the revolver, or if I did they would sit proud and drag and the clip rotated making for an erratic trigger pull. I could not pocket carry them, and if I was going to deal with the bulk of belt carry in a pouch for moon clips I might as well just carry a CompI for the .38 spl.

I never shot a Ruger SP101 in 9mm so I can't comment on that. I did shoot a Speed Six in 9mm some back in my teenaged years and that setup seemed to work fine. I had good luck with a S&W 940. Those clips were tough and resistant to bending, but I stupidly traded mine off for a 547 thinking that extractor system would solve my problem. I have had two 547s now and both substituted easier extraction for somewhat slower or at least different loading. In both of mine cartridges had to be pushed into the chambers and would not just drop in and 'plunk'. Not a problem, but distinctly slower reloading with the old HKS speedloaders than an equivalent .38/357 setup. Now I wish that would have kept at least one of them for the collection to put with the other M&P variants.

As for defense against four or no legged critters I think the .38 comes out on top. CCI .38 shotshells hold 100 pellets of #9 vs 53 pellets of #12 for 9mm. That may not be a factor for you, but down here we have a lot of venomous snakes. Also you can get lot of straight line penetration out of a snubby with a 173 - 200 grain hard cast LSW even at rather modest velocities with better wounding than 9mm FMJ (which in fairness has a good bit on penetration also).

Baldanders

03-09-2020, 05:33 PM

I deal with clips in my 640 and 625.

With TK Custom demooners, no problem at all.

I don't carry a reload, but a pill bottle of the right size will hold a 640 clip well, carried upside down with the loaded clip facing bullet side up. Clip sides out fast when you unscrew the top.

Only reason I thought .38 might be superior to 9mm is the fact that many 9mm owners say the recoil is appreciably higher than .38.

Joe in PNG

03-09-2020, 05:52 PM

My 1917 & moon clips kind of soured me on the whole shebang. Towards the end, before I sold it, I was just single loading .45acp and poking them out with a rod.

When I eventually get another small snub revolver, it's most likely going to be a .38 Special. Like my other revolvers are.

mmc45414

03-09-2020, 07:16 PM

:D I don't feel like I'm arguing.
I have reflected on the fact that the thread is a poll, I think generating a competition of sorts.

When presented with two options I usually want both (like this...) and my quandary is what I would get first :cool:

JAD

03-09-2020, 08:42 PM

mmc45414

03-10-2020, 08:57 AM

Duelist

03-10-2020, 09:31 AM

My first snub was a Detective Special. I liked it, but sold it to a collector for over 2x what I paid for it rather than beat it to death carrying and shooting it.

My next was a 642. I still have and regularly carry it. It is currently loaded with Federal GMM wadcutters, and its speedstrip is loaded with 110gr Hornady.

Last year, I bought an all-steel 60-9 chambered in .357. It has had exactly 5 rounds of 110gr .357 through it, and likely will never see another. It wasn’t as obnoxious as I thought it would be, likely because I chickened out of shooting a bear killer through it. I’ve shot it quite a bit with .38s, as was my intent when I bought it, and have carried it occasionally. I’d rather carry my 642 for weight reasons, or my G26 for capacity reasons, and the hammer spur does dig in when carried in some carry methods, but it is a lot easier to shoot quickly and accurately than the 642, and has a lot more class than the G26.

If ever I get another snub, it’ll probably be a .22.

Clusterfrack

03-10-2020, 10:46 AM

The 9mm loads that are known to work in a 4” gun cant be assumed to be reliable in a shorter barrel gun. I think going to a less reliable feeding system for an unproven and likely marginal difference in effectiveness is kind of a funny choice, but rock on.

That's not what the experts say. 9mm from a 3" barrel is a good choice, and superior to .38.

"Another great BUG option if it can be comfortably carried, is a compact 3-3.5" barrel 9 mm pistol like the G26, S&W M&P9c, Walther PPS, HK P2000SK, Kahr PM9, S&W Shield, Sig P239, or S&W 3913, as these offer superior terminal performance compared to either .380 ACP or .38 Sp handguns. A subcompact BUG (like the G26) is particularly nice if it can use the same magazines as the primary full size pistol (like a G17/19)."
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4336-BUG-s-380-ACP-vs-38-Sp

Reliability: I'm still not convinced that there's any problem with 5-shot moonclips in the LCR. Especially if you carry 5 rounds in a moonclip + 5 rounds in a strip.

JAD

03-10-2020, 10:55 AM

That's not what the experts say. 9mm from a 3" barrel is a good choice, and superior to .38.

Fair enough- if DocGKR asserts that there’s an appreciable benefit to 3” 9 vs .38 WC I’ll yield.

jandbj

03-10-2020, 05:20 PM

49721

Thanks for the chart!

This is how I’ve ended up with a few 38 Smith airweights, an LCR38, & an S&W43c with a centerfire mainspring (very very reliable with the Mexican minimags). And just bought an LCRx38 3”.... because I think I’m incapable of walking through a gun store without finding something that needs a good home. 43c literally lives in the range bag because it gets shot every single time I go to the range.

deflave

03-10-2020, 05:49 PM

Nobody's grandfather is ever going to advise that "Every man needs to own at least one 9mm revolver."

mmc45414

03-10-2020, 06:13 PM

I think I’m incapable of walking through a gun store without finding something that needs a good home.
I think need is over rated :cool:

Old Virginia

03-11-2020, 01:00 AM

I keep circling the drain on this, here are a few other considerations that are not part of the original inquiry:

> If the lounge around gun is the motivation, the S&W 22s sure are light with their aluminum cylinders. I think weight is a big part of this, to the point that this idiot bought a 360PD...
> The 38 guns are the volume leaders and are typically discounted more, leaving budget space for ammo.
> Not only do the 9mm guns require moon clips, realistically you will have to buy more than the thing comes with, money that could be spent on 38 ammo.
> The rimfire guns (both brands) come with heavier trigger pulls (good or bad, depending on your training attitude).
> The stainless frame Rugers are supposed to cost $90 more.
> Between retail discount and buying moon clips (and tools?) a 38 could be purchased with an initial supply of ammo for the same price as the 9mm.

49721

Considered all of this, bought the 9mm and never looked back. Yes, have the 642 which I love, but shoot the LCR9mm much more. Not only enjoy the gun, but the money saved in Ammo cost have paid for all those moon clips I own. And I had no problem paying more for the Steel frame. I would do it all over again. In fact, thinking about another revolver, but I really want one in 9mm.

Have shot the LCR22 so many times that I do not even think of the Heavier trigger pull. One of the benefits of shooting often, a heavier trigger pull becomes a non issue and recoil becomes almost immune. And a steel frame is going to mitigate some of that recoil. Yes, if you are just looking at upfront cost and not in the long run, then maybe the 38. By the way, you can purchase a 642 airweight with moon clips already cut.
Any gun you purchase with have cost. I have about a dozen magazines for my pistols. Just the way it is. Even thinking about another LCR 9mm, just because I love them. Maybe a LCRX.

GearFondler

03-11-2020, 03:36 AM

How's the POA/POI with the LCR 9mm? Is there a particular weight, like 147 or 124gr, that it is regulated for? And if it's off, is there an aftermarket solution easier available?

oregon45

03-11-2020, 09:55 AM

Reliability: I'm still not convinced that there's any problem with 5-shot moonclips in the LCR. Especially if you carry 5 rounds in a moonclip + 5 rounds in a strip.

This is the way I would carry a 9mm snub-nose; it was the way I carried my S&W 940 before I sold it. It minimizes risk to the moon-clips, and I've come to believe that reloading any revolver--particularly a small revolver--in a fight is a low-probability of success endeavor.*

*My thinking on this has been heavily influenced by Tom Givens' writing on the subject in his recent "Concealed Carry Class" book. When I carry a J-frame now, I carry two of them (along with a speed-strip in reserve) and the time I used to spend practicing fast reloads I now spend practicing the transition to a second revolver.

Clusterfrack

03-11-2020, 10:51 AM

How's the POA/POI with the LCR 9mm? Is there a particular weight, like 147 or 124gr, that it is regulated for? And if it's off, is there an aftermarket solution easier available?

Mine is good with 147 at 20yds.

Old Virginia

03-11-2020, 10:59 AM

Mine is good with 147 at 20yds.

I train with 124 gr and good out to 20yds. My main carry is a Beretta Pico. Good to 15 yds. Sometimes a Backup is the Keltec P32. 8 extra rounds if I need it, which the chances are very nil.(10oz fully loaded). I do love to carry a LCR9mm or 642. Started off about 12 years ago with a hefty compact semi. Over time I realized that in reality most gunfights will end in 3 shots or less. At least where I live. Slowly started to move down in weight. No cartels here yet. If that changes, then I may move up to my Kahr CM9, Beretta Nano 8+1 and the Pico.
I train hard with the Pico and revolvers and Nano. Lots of diligent range time. Shooting small pocket guns on a religious for all of those 12 yr. To me they ARE range guns.

Good advice on carrying two weapons as opposed to one with higher round count. Is much faster than changing a Mag and you always have that spare firearm.

Rex G

03-12-2020, 02:14 PM

This is the way I would carry a 9mm snub-nose; it was the way I carried my S&W 940 before I sold it. It minimizes risk to the moon-clips, and I've come to believe that reloading any revolver--particularly a small revolver--in a fight is a low-probability of success endeavor.*

*My thinking on this has been heavily influenced by Tom Givens' writing on the subject in his recent "Concealed Carry Class" book. When I carry a J-frame now, I carry two of them (along with a speed-strip in reserve) and the time I used to spend practicing fast reloads I now spend practicing the transition to a second revolver.

Well-thought-out plan. :)

When I transitioned from the 1911 to the G22, for police duty*, in 2002, I could not make the G22 work nearly as well, for concealed carry during personal time, so I quickly promoted my spur-less SP101 to my usual personal-time primary. The J-Snub remained the usual secondary, on and off the clock. I soon added a second spur-less SP101, and an SP101 with the normal, spur hammer. For several years, my normal personal-carry combo was multiple snub-guns, with Bianchi “slow strips” for what I considered to be more like reserve ammo, than “reloads.”

Small-frame revolvers have so very little clearance, for the speed-loader to do its job. Removing grip material allows more clearance, but one is still operating too close to the margin, for me, and, with a wrist that had been tenderized by too many big-bore Magnum round, in the Eighties, I hated too-slim grips, by the 21st Century.

I still had my old faithful GP100, which had been my 1993-1995 primary duty handgun, and I continued to carry speed-loaders when I dressed around this larger sixgun, and still do, as with more-recently-added GP100, Speed Six, and K-Frame sixguns. Medium- and larger-frame revolvers have more clearance for speed-loaders, so, it seems sensible to tote speed-loaders, even if I also have a snub-gun secondary.

In retirement, now, my handgun carry practices have become inconsistent, largely being 9mm Glocks and various revolvers, so my first “reload” for any revolver may be a compact Glock, but on non-Glock days, I have reverted to the above patterns.

*The then-mandated Safariland 070 duty holster did not allow me to get a proper firing grip, on a 1911, at the outset of the draw, resulting in inconsistent grip safety manipulation. The transition to G22 was a reluctant, but necessary move. Reverting to my GP100 for on-the-clock primary handgun carry was no longer within PD rules, as I had not “grandfathered” it, when PD weapon policy changed in 1997.

RevolverRob

03-12-2020, 03:36 PM

I carry a J-Frame and a speed strip like I dunno, 90% of the time. Sometimes it's a D-Frame and a speed strip.

A 9mm LCR loaded with a moon clip and a speed strip of spare ammo - is all I would consider carrying anyways. So I too don't see the value in debating "moon clips are weaker".

I also, personally, think that 9mm from a 2" barrel + the cylinder length - gives you short barrel 9mm efficacy, when a 2" J-frame .38 does not. I would not feel bad, at all, carrying around an LCR in 9mm loaded with Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel or HST 'Micro'.

XS makes a big yellow or orange front dot for the 9mm LCR. It's a damn sight better than anything offered on a fixed front sight J-Frame.

___

If you do not own a .38 Special revolver - there is no viable reason to purchase one, when a 9mm gun exists that works as well, if not better, in many respects.

IF you already own a bunch of .38s, get another, whatever. But if you don't, why bother?

Seriously, as much as I love my revolvers - there is nothing that a .38/.357 revolver can do that a 9mm revolver or a 9mm pistol cannot. With monolithic rounds at +P and +P+ velocities 9mm can match or exceed most .357 loads used for bi-pedal defensive scenarios.

mmc45414

03-12-2020, 04:29 PM

If you do not own a .38 Special revolver - there is no viable reason to purchase one, when a 9mm gun exists that works as well, if not better, in many respects.
The reason I see would also include weight. I am frequently going with the revolver when I am not wearing pants (well, pants with a belt...) and there is a difference between 17oz and 11-13oz, at least for me. On the occasions where I am wearing a J-Frame with a belt there are other factors that lead me to the revolver, and there is when I think the LCR might be the proper bowl of porridge.

RevolverRob

03-12-2020, 04:34 PM

The reason I see would also include weight. I am frequently going with the revolver when I am not wearing pants (well, pants with a belt...) and there is a difference between 17oz and 11-13oz, at least for me. On the occasions where I am wearing a J-Frame with a belt there are other factors that lead me to the revolver, and there is when I think the LCR might be the proper bowl of porridge.

I admit, I do not like the scandium guns and don't find them tenable, because I cannot practice with them.

Therefore, for me, snub revolvers all revolve (heh) around a weight class of 15-18 ounces.

More than 18 ounces is too heavy, less than 15 is too light.

If one can make a 12 ounce gun work for them, power. I simply can't, not with my wrists and my need to make sure I practice with the gun.

I admit the 43c intrigues me as a low weight "rule 1" gun, but since I can rather easily carry an Airweight in my pocket - what do I gain besides potential reliability and power concerns?

TheNewbie

03-12-2020, 04:45 PM

I admit, I do not like the scandium guns and don't find them tenable, because I cannot practice with them.

Therefore, for me, snub revolvers all revolve (heh) around a weight class of 15-18 ounces.

More than 18 ounces is too heavy, less than 15 is too light.

If one can make a 12 ounce gun work for them, power. I simply can't, not with my wrists and my need to make sure I practice with the gun.

I admit the 43c intrigues me as a low weight "rule 1" gun, but since I can rather easily carry an Airweight in my pocket - what do I gain besides potential reliability and power concerns?

What about with wadcutters?

RevolverRob

03-12-2020, 04:59 PM

What about with wadcutters?

Right on the border of what is viable for me. I can just get five wadcutters out in ~3 seconds from concealment with B-zone hits from an M&P340.

That's not great shooting overall.

To me, I'd rather carry an extra 3-5 ounces and get five wadcutters out in ~3 seconds or so from concealment that are all A-zone hits with a 642.

Even better is getting 5 A-zone hits in ~2.5-3 seconds of 9mm that may actually penetrate and expand.

mmc45414

03-13-2020, 05:45 AM

Therefore, for me, snub revolvers all revolve (heh) around a weight class of 15-18 ounces.

More than 18 ounces is too heavy, less than 15 is too light.
Yeah, the 442 is supposed to be 14.4 empty and the 340 13.8 and that is probably where lighter quits making sense. Though I did get a 360PD out of curiosity, and that is probably not one of the smarter things I have done, but after dropping the coin I say I can tell the two ounce difference, but this is probably rationalization at this point. I will probably end up moving the titanium cylinder from the 360 to the 340, not sure where that leaves the 360 in the "what for" matrix (since I have a 637), but I am probably stuck with it because not many people have the wants for a $800 J-Frame, especially one that has the main jewel removed. Maybe the 637 finds another home.

But my use is based on something fitting into the situation I am in. This might mean that after a couple of miles on a hotel treadmill I go out and fill the car up and the light gun fits the need. I use the J-Frame when it meshes with what I am doing, possible options include modifying my behavior to accommodate a bigger gun, and I am pretty certain I am better off spending time on the treadmill as opposed to carrying a bigger gun to the gas station. Someday I might wish I had a bigger gun, someday I might be damn glad to have the J-Frame.

And I think that 15oz is a tipping point. Maybe I am being Goldilocks, but it seems like more than that is still going to be too much. I have heavier revolvers, including a 3" SP-101 I love, but at 17oz or so I would just make the jump to a Shield/G43. Not to say I am not intrigued by the 9mm LCR idea, because I am. Maybe I get the LCR, and if I like it the 340 gets bored out?... :cool:

I admit, I do not like the scandium guns and don't find them tenable, because I cannot practice with them.

I agree, and would maybe be a bad choice if a fella had just one, but like a G19/G26 combo I am comfortable that the PD gun will be OK after having enough trigger time on J-Frame revolvers.

Another thing is grips, we all want light guns with tiny grips. I really do not go with pocket carry very often, I have been using something bigger, even if it is just the banana version that has room for your pinky.

I admit the 43c intrigues me as a low weight "rule 1" gun, but since I can rather easily carry an Airweight in my pocket - what do I gain besides potential reliability and power concerns?
Not for pocket, but I am angling to the 317, only two tenths of an ounce heavier than the 43c and a nice little kit gun that would be fun to have anyway. Maybe good for a walk in the park with the dog, but that can wait for another dog, the current dog has not even been able to keep up long enough for the walk in the park to be exercise, and the wife ain't going anywhere without him.

OP is probably wondering WTH he started :eek:

ETA: I just reflected on how much stuff I have bought as alternative to the J-Frame, including several Kahrs and several Shields, and I keep coming back to the J-Frame because of weight.

Earlymonk

03-13-2020, 06:02 AM

OP is probably wondering WTH he started :eek:

I'm diggin' this like a terrier with a cow femur! :D

mmc45414

03-13-2020, 06:04 AM

I'm diggin' this like a terrier with a cow femur! :D
This one day, on Pistol Forum, I asked a simple question...

RevolverRob

03-13-2020, 11:23 AM

GearFondler

03-13-2020, 11:31 AM

This thread has prompted me to decide to buy a 9mm LCR next time I'm at the crack...err gun...dealer.

It's certainly got me strongly considering one... The M&P340 was leading the pack but now, not so much.

JAH 3rd

03-13-2020, 12:19 PM

Lots of good info posted here! I tend to go with buy what you shoot best. Try different handguns and calibers. You want as many shots on the target as possible. So efficiency with whatever you settle on is key. For 20 years I owned only one Glock, the model 21 in 45acp. It colored my opinion of the entire Glock line......an ok pistol, but it really didn't fit. So one day last December, a friend of mine was shooting his new Glock 19 gen 5. Fired a magazine through it. It was like a light went on......I love this 19. Bought me a Glock 17 just before Christmas. It has changed my opinion of Glock. This pistol rocks.

So based on personal experience, try different handguns and calibers.

jtcarm

03-13-2020, 02:10 PM

Neither.

Get a 38 or 357 (just stick to shooting 38s). Common things are common for a reason.

If I was going to stray from that I’d get an LCR in 327 magnum, but I prefer j frames so I stick with 38/357.

What he said.

I'll add that the 9mm relies on expansion, and the bullets are designed to expand at auto-pistol velocities, most likely from a 4" barrel. A 2" revolver is going to give up a lot.

With the .38/357, there's SD ammo available specifically designed for short barrels.

Then there's old reliable, the full wadcutter. It shoots to POA, has negligible recoil, consistent penetration, and cuts a .36" hole every time.

Clusterfrack

03-13-2020, 02:30 PM

See posts 46 and 57 about 9mm. The LCR yields velocity equivalent to a >3” auto.

Mitch

03-13-2020, 02:30 PM

I’ve gone in pretty deep on j frames in the last year. For my needs they check a lot of boxes.

If the 442/642 had better sights I don’t think there would be nearly as much interest in the scandium guns. I think the air weights are the way to go for most people. Paint the sights and if that isn’t enough, get laser grips. If you’re only going to have one snub that’s probably the way to go.

Feature wise the M&P 340 is the best out of the box, but if you’re going to train a lot you need a 43C or a 640 to go with it. I can train with a 642. With 130 fmj and the right grips it’s not bad. With wad cutters it’s easy street.

SCCY Marshal

03-13-2020, 02:31 PM

...I'll add that the 9mm relies on expansion, and the bullets are designed to expand at auto-pistol velocities, most likely from a 4" barrel. A 2" revolver is going to give up a lot...

A bit like directly comparing Farenheit and Centigrade without conversion there. Autos have barrels measured right up to the breech face. Revolvers have it measured to the rear of the forcing cone. That 2" LCR is actually around 3.5" if comparing to an auto. My .22 LCR just gave me a 3.48" reading with the depth probe on my calipers.

mmc45414

03-13-2020, 02:53 PM

I’ve gone in pretty deep on j frames in the last year.
Me too, they are so cute I want to collect the whole set!
Seriously, they come in different configurations, and I set them up with different grips.

If the 442/642 had better sights I don’t think there would be nearly as much interest in the scandium guns.
I agree, and did this to a couple of them:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?35333-XS-Glue-On-J-Frame-Sight-Files-Instead-of-Milling&p=850035&viewfull=1#post850035

Grizzly

03-13-2020, 05:11 PM

I hate to ask this so late in the game, but what is "not a gun" actually referring to? Does he mean a gun for fun and not for daily defensive carry?

If that is the case, I whole heartedly would vote for a .22
Once I started shooting, I quickly started reloading. Then came the .22 and oh the joy of not spending all evening in the basement reloading. Then there was cost. I'd hardly notice the expense of a box of .22s, but back in the day when money was very tight, a box of even .38 reloads meant damaging a very tight budget. If I'm not mistaken, during the depression, even .22s were used sparingly.

Like the military, small .22 rounds let you carry many more and much less weight. And they are FUN also.

If sheer enjoyment is what you are looking for, the .22 can't be beat.

I can't help you much with choosing a model. My .22 was a 7" Ruger MKII which once was a 10"
The only .22 revolver in the house is an old H&R my father in law gave me. It has thin, fine old sights and he always bragged about how accurate he was with it. I've shot it some, but not nearly as much as my other handguns.

The snub I carry regularly is an old 3" CA Bulldog that has been polished and reblued and shoots and carries very well. If I wanted more accuracy and more range, I'd go a bit bigger, but I'd be happy with it out in the woods. They are known as great snake guns with shot rounds. Bigger for the woods would probably be my 4 5/8" Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt with a SBH hammer and action job.

I do regret not buying a 9mm LCR one day. I looked at it at a lgs and it had the nicest, smoothest, lightest trigger of any of the LCRs I handled. I came close and was sorely tempted, but at the time I hadn't researched it and hesitated. I'd be happy to carry one with the rounds in the moon clip for rapid ejection, keeping the clips in new condition for this purpose. Not sure what I'd use for reloading yet, and there is the problem. There are a few systems out there but I haven't needed to look at the seriously yet. But that doesn't seem to be your question anyway.

deflave

03-13-2020, 05:49 PM

I can't help you much with choosing a model. My .22 was a 7" Ruger MKII which once was a 10"

You chopped a 10"?

Earlymonk

03-13-2020, 06:10 PM

This thread has prompted me to decide to buy a 9mm LCR...

I want to do some side-by-side testing between the LCR, 642-2, and the 2.5" 638 I have and we'll see what happens.

49864

Clusterfrack

03-13-2020, 06:27 PM

This thread has prompted me to decide to buy a 9mm LCR next time I'm at the crack...err gun...dealer.

I want to do some side-by-side testing between the LCR, 642-2, and the 2.5" 638 I have and we'll see what happens.

I’m actually carrying mine tonight. Dinner out at a fancy place downtown Portland AKA Zombieland.

TheNewbie

03-13-2020, 06:31 PM

I’m actually carrying mine tonight. Dinner out at a fancy place downtown Portland AKA Zombieland.

How are you carrying it?

Clusterfrack

03-13-2020, 06:38 PM

How are you carrying it?

Edited again because I couldn’t decide. I’m carrying it IWB in a Dark Star.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200314/f437a1905e5404d961e8925f84c550bd.jpg

mmc45414

03-13-2020, 08:58 PM

I hate to ask this so late in the game, but what is "not a gun" actually referring to?
From my perspective it is a gun you carry when you think you do not need a gun, so if you do not need a gun and you are carrying it, it must not be a gun, or something like that :cool:

Grizzly

03-13-2020, 10:11 PM

You chopped a 10"?

I was getting ready to shoot the 3 handgun Masters back in 1987. A local gunsmith was helping me and he'd already chopped it. This was either before Ruger offered a 7" or about the same time. I did buy a 10" the next year for the one handed precision event and had the barrel slab sided. I'd only asked to have it fluted but was talked into the slab siding which the gunsmith later regretted. It was stainless and I think he went through way more bits and time then he charged me for. For some reason the stainless was much harder to mill then a blue steel barrel. I wound up shooting a Smith and Wesson model 41 that year. What I really wish I'd done was when the chopped ten was offered, I passed on a 5 1/2" barrel with a Witchita Rib on it. I often wished I had that one later when we began shooting alot of bowling pin events at our club. With it, I could put 5 rounds into a quarter as fast as I could shoot it at about 7 yards or so.

GearFondler

03-13-2020, 10:37 PM

From my perspective it is a gun you carry when you think you do not need a gun, so if you do not need a gun and you are carrying it, it must not be a gun, or something like that :cool:That's it... A gun you carry when you can't (or won't) carry a real gun.
It's also a good backup option with a real gun... Not many of us can or will carry a pair of real guns.

deflave

03-14-2020, 03:02 AM

I was getting ready to shoot the 3 handgun Masters back in 1987. A local gunsmith was helping me and he'd already chopped it. This was either before Ruger offered a 7" or about the same time. I did buy a 10" the next year for the one handed precision event and had the barrel slab sided. I'd only asked to have it fluted but was talked into the slab siding which the gunsmith later regretted. It was stainless and I think he went through way more bits and time then he charged me for. For some reason the stainless was much harder to mill then a blue steel barrel. I wound up shooting a Smith and Wesson model 41 that year. What I really wish I'd done was when the chopped ten was offered, I passed on a 5 1/2" barrel with a Witchita Rib on it. I often wished I had that one later when we began shooting alot of bowling pin events at our club. With it, I could put 5 rounds into a quarter as fast as I could shoot it at about 7 yards or so.

That's good stuff.

I recently found a MK II 10" and snatched it up. Great shooter.

About a week after I found that my brother found the 7" tapered. Same deal. Those two lengths can be tough to find in shops nowadays.