CAG rifle?

[awp_101]

I saw a listing elsewhere for a vertical foregrip with a 6P mounted the seller said came off a CAG clone rifle. I’m not a cloner and I have no idea what a CAG rifle might be.

Thanks to a youth misspent reading anything related to military aviation I could get my hands on, when I see “CAG” my mind immediately goes to US Naval Aviation.

[Up1911Fan]

I saw a listing elsewhere for a vertical foregrip with a 6P mounted the seller said came off a CAG clone rifle. I’m not a cloner and I have no idea what a CAG rifle might be.

Thanks to a youth misspent reading anything related to military aviation I could get my hands on, when I see “CAG” my mind immediately goes to US Naval Aviation.

Combat Applications Group ( aka Delta).

[okie john]

CAG stands for Combat Applications Group, or Delta. They have wide latitude in their choices of weapons and mods. The DoD also refuses to acknowledge their existence, so anyone claiming to have a clone of one of their rifles could be full of shit.


Okie John

[awp_101]

Ah, got it. Another case of dropping a cool guy TLA to seem like...well, a cool guy.

Thanks!

[DamonL]

Does it look like the grip in this link?

http://soldiersystems.net/2012/06/10/a-blast-from-the-past-from-our-friends-at-invictus-alliance-group/

Knights Armament used to make this 15 or 20 years ago.


Google "KAC Gangster grip" and you will get more info.

[joshs]

I saw a listing elsewhere for a vertical foregrip with a 6P mounted the seller said came off a CAG clone rifle. I’m not a cloner and I have no idea what a CAG rifle might be.

Thanks to a youth misspent reading anything related to military aviation I could get my hands on, when I see “CAG” my mind immediately goes to US Naval Aviation.

It's a light setup that Chuck Pressburg posted about in the mid 00s on the Lightfighter forum. Quite a few people made them by drilling and tapping a scope ring to mount an A2 grip.

[awp_101]

Sort of. I’ll find the link but it looks more like an A2 grip and lacked the buttons in the grip.

joshs, that’s what this one looked like.

[Cory]

People who are claiming to clone CAG rifles aren't always full of shit. And their existence hasn't been denied for a long time. You can google CAG rifle and see some examples.

Most cloners will not just call their rifle a "CAG rifle". They'll break it down by era, model, and other things. Clone communities often have incredible amounts of informed people in them. Service members have always wanted to bring their rifles home and thats no different today. Plenty of SF guys help inform others of the correct parts to use. One clone group I'm apart of sees Chuck Pressburg post occassionally.

The type of grip with light you're talking about has been made by many folks with varying degrees of quality.

-Cory

[Casual Friday]

People who are claiming to clone CAG rifles aren't always full of shit. And their existence hasn't been denied for a long time. You can google CAG rifle and see some examples.

Most cloners will not just call their rifle a "CAG rifle". They'll break it down by era, model, and other things. Clone communities often have incredible amounts of informed people in them. Service members have always wanted to bring their rifles home and thats no different today. Plenty of SF guys help inform others of the correct parts to use. One clone group I'm apart of sees Chuck Pressburg post occassionally.

The type of grip with light you're talking about has been made by many folks with varying degrees of quality.

-Cory

Yep, and it takes a special kind of person to be a true cloner. I don't have the patience for it though, at least to the point of wanting it to be 100% clone correct. My Colt 733 Heat clone is more of an inspired by clone than being clone correct. I enjoy looking at other people's work though, like going to car shows even though I'm not a car guy.

Pressburg posted in CRA yesterday.

[Cory]

Yep, and it takes a special kind of person to be a true cloner. I don't have the patience for it though, at least to the point of wanting it to be 100% clone correct. My Colt 733 Heat clone is more of an inspired by clone than being clone correct. I enjoy looking at other people's work though, like going to car shows even though I'm not a car guy.

Pressburg posted in CRA yesterday.

Yup.

I don't have the budget to clone. In fact, other than my decomissioned M17 I have no clones. If I was a millionaire I would have a lot of them. Mostly accurate parts if possible.

-Cory

[okie john]

People who are claiming to clone CAG rifles aren't always full of shit. And their existence hasn't been denied for a long time. You can google CAG rifle and see some examples.

Most cloners will not just call their rifle a "CAG rifle". They'll break it down by era, model, and other things. Clone communities often have incredible amounts of informed people in them. Service members have always wanted to bring their rifles home and thats no different today. Plenty of SF guys help inform others of the correct parts to use. One clone group I'm apart of sees Chuck Pressburg post occassionally.

The type of grip with light you're talking about has been made by many folks with varying degrees of quality.

-Cory

I stand corrected. I had no idea there was such a thing as the cloner community, but it makes perfect sense.


Okie John

[Cory]

I stand corrected. I had no idea there was such a thing as the cloner community, but it makes perfect sense.


Okie John

No big deal.

Of course for every informed, detail correct cloner is an "inspired" build thats close enough for its owner, and so far away from accurate as to no longer be a clone. Whats acceptable varies.

And the idiots who falsley claim SF type stuff/experience/gear prevent the actual clone community from being discovered or taken seriously. So much flase stuff is out there that many dont recognize the actual clone world when they see it. Plus the real clone guys tend to have alot of snarky jest.

-Cory

[Wake27]

I never understood why though. Most of the issues stuff has far better options in the civilian market so unless a person truly has a sentimental bond to a specific weapon, it’s always seemed like throwing money at posing to me.


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[Casual Friday]

I never understood why though. Most of the issues stuff has far better options in the civilian market so unless a person truly has a sentimental bond to a specific weapon, it’s always seemed like throwing money at posing to me.


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Sometimes guns can just be for fun. They don't all have to be practical.

[Alpha Sierra]

I never understood why though. Most of the issues stuff has far better options in the civilian market so unless a person truly has a sentimental bond to a specific weapon, it’s always seemed like throwing money at posing to me.


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I don't give a crap about clone ARs, but I would like to have a correct clone of a USMC M40A5. Preferably built by a retired USMC Precision Weapons Section armorer who built the real ones.

[Wake27]

Sometimes guns can just be for fun. They don't all have to be practical.

Sure, which is why I have an AK. I just don’t see what would be fun about using stuff that you may not actually like just because someone else did at some point. The A2 grip is a great example - I hated that thing in OSUT before I ever got into shooting. I know some people like it which is unbelievable to me but if you do, that’s great, but cloning isn’t about building a gun to your preference, and it just happening to be what special people use.

I’m not saying people shouldn’t, I’m just saying I legitimately don’t understand it.


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[FNFAN]

I’m not saying people shouldn’t, I’m just saying I legitimately don’t understand it.




I believe Chuck Pressburg referred to it as an attempt to, "Touch the Magic."

[okie john]

I never understood why though. Most of the issues stuff has far better options in the civilian market so unless a person truly has a sentimental bond to a specific weapon, it’s always seemed like throwing money at posing to me.

While correcting my earlier ignorance, I stumbled across https://www.clonerifles.com/

Mind = blown

The units in question use top-end civilian gear, so cloners get that taste of history along with milspec performance. And I think a lot of guys actually do have a sentimental bond to specific weapons or variants.


Okie John

[Wake27]

While correcting my earlier ignorance, I stumbled across https://www.clonerifles.com/

Mind = blown

The units in question use top-end civilian gear, so cloners get that taste of history along with milspec performance. And I think a lot of guys actually do have a sentimental bond to specific weapons or variants.


Okie John

You'd be surprised. A lot of the ones I've seen were never in the military. Not that its a bad thing, but why then spend so much money on it? I've been on active duty for six years and could probably do some cool stuff with my current M4 but why would I buy a carbine when middys are so good? Not to mention barrel profiles other than gov't/heavy and rails aside from the RIS II (which I admittedly do like, but not on a 14.5 gun), or even a 10.3/10.5 all together when its well known that the extra inch behind an 11.5 has a lot of benefits? None of that accounts for stuff like a UID label that serves literally zero purpose (I've still yet to even see a unit use them) or older variants like a Block 1, etc. Before Geissele started selling uppers with SF4Ps, those MDs were selling for stupid amounts of money just because they were "authentic."

Again, I'm not trash-talking anyone that does it - free country and all of that, and if you have the money, cool. But I can not wrap my head around it.

[awp_101]

Well this thread has taken an unexpected but very interesting turn.

I view cloning the same way I do "tribute" cars. As long as it's done above board and the owner doesn't try to pass it off as the real deal, no harm, no foul.

[Casual Friday]

Sure, which is why I have an AK. I just don’t see what would be fun about using stuff that you may not actually like just because someone else did at some point. The A2 grip is a great example - I hated that thing in OSUT before I ever got into shooting. I know some people like it which is unbelievable to me but if you do, that’s great, but cloning isn’t about building a gun to your preference, and it just happening to be what special people use.

I’m not saying people shouldn’t, I’m just saying I legitimately don’t understand it.


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Cloners probably legitimately don't understand why you have an AK. I don't understand people that shoot sporting clays for fun. It's boring af to me but others seem to like it.

My Colt 733 Heat inspired rifle was put together simply because Heat has been my favorite movie since 1995 when I saw it at age 15. No light, no optic, no sling, and an A2 grip, pretty much the polar opposite of how the guns I consider to be serious use are setup.

I used to think cloning was mostly for people that never served, but then I realized a lot of them had. While cloning CAG and other SOF rifles doesn't appeal to me, I totally get people that clone movie and tv guns because: nostalgia.

[mmc45414]

I totally get people that clone movie and tv guns because: nostalgia.
Detective Callahan sold alotta Model 29s!

ETA: including the one I shoulda kept!!!

[Moshjath]

I’ve been in CRA for some time. The only “clone” I’ve constructed was an M16A1 clone that I made just as a fun project. It would be considered relatively casual by most members of the group, none of the parts are authentic. One of my rifles is also generally set up like an issued M4 with a KAC RAS and A2 grip, mostly so my training rifle reflects my work gun.

That being said, I feel from observing the group for quite some time that part of what the hardcore cloners get out of the group is the thrill of the chase, the amount of work they put into say, sourcing an authentic optic mount from the early 2000’s or an authentic rail system that was in limited production for some SOF specific bolt gun is impressive. It’s not so much that they think it’s the most effective, they view it more as a challenge to get relatively obscure service rifles as authentically period correct as they can be. A Block II SOPMOD M4A1 would be ho-hum in that group, but a Son Tay raider CAR-15 with Armson OEG or a Mk. 12 SPR from early GWOT with all the right parts to include the right pelican case, manual, and cut out foam would be more impressive. Though many of them are shooters, think of them more as collectors. I could see getting into it if I had the funds and the time, but for now I can just appreciate what others put into it.

[LittleLebowski]

I don't give a crap about clone ARs, but I would like to have a correct clone of a USMC M40A5. Preferably built by a retired USMC Precision Weapons Section armorer who built the real ones.

I want an SR25 like my brother used at 1:51 here:


https://youtu.be/6VbLK88bWGM

[Casual Friday]

That being said, I feel from observing the group for quite some time that part of what the hardcore cloners get out of the group is the thrill of the chase, the amount of work they put into say, sourcing an authentic optic mount from the early 2000’s or an authentic rail system that was in limited production for some SOF specific bolt gun is impressive. It’s not so much that they think it’s the most effective, they view it more as a challenge to get relatively obscure service rifles as authentically period correct as they can be.

Agreed, and that's what I don't have the time or patience for. I can't remember what it was, but I recall one CRA member talking about spending like 9 months searching online everyday for one specific part, only to accidentally stumble across one in a surplus store. It may have been a specific Surefire light but I'm not 100% sure.


I could see getting into it if I had the funds and the time, but for now I can just appreciate what others put into it.

Same here. Not sure if you're aware, but there's a CRA Off Topic group that is more forgiving for guys like you and me that wouldn't need 100% correct parts to be happy.

[Chance]

Vickers is really into these kind of builds. Here are two examples from his YouTube channel that come to mind.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpPgg64PUbE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56Si24-yEzQ

[Joe in PNG]

I completely see the appeal. Musicians do this all the time. A guitar or bass player may spend an extra few thousand dollars to have the Fender Customs Shop build them a replica of David Gilmour's Strat or Jaco's Jazz bass, then another few thousand more to get vintage Echorec delay or Hiwatt DR103 (customized with the period correct resistors, caps, tubes, and transformers) or a Acoustic 360... (and beyond).

When in truth, a bog standard rack grade electric guitar, through a decent digital effects system will play and sound close enough for most.

It's a passion kind of thing.

[Tokarev]

Sometimes guns can just be for fun. They don't all have to be practical.Exactly. Sometimes we go out of our way to take the fun out of an otherwise enjoyable hobby.

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[Joe in PNG]

Exactly. Sometimes we go out of our way to take the fun out of an otherwise enjoyable hobby.



Fun gets you kilt on da stretz!

[JRB]

I spent a pretty silly amount of time tracking down M16A2 stuff to build a clone of the three different A2's I carried for the first ~6 years of my Army career. Nostalgia's a mofo.

And I definitely own some AK's and other guns because of their presence in movies or video games. No lie, I love 11.5in barreled Colt uppers and FNC's because of Heat.

[hiro]

Fun gets you kilt on da stratz!

FIFY