Substitute Standard White Whale

[SCCY Marshal]

I've wanted a S&W model 58 for as long as I can remember. Something looking even more business-like than a heavy barreled Model 10, issued in the city my wife was raised, possessing the fixed sights I so love, and able to be loaded from roughly 40 S&W to bear medicine. But I've never had money when a good one was available. As prices increase, the chances I'll ever score one drop with every passing year.

Also parted with a 6" heavy barreled Dan Wesson 15-2 last year. It was a great gun but the trigger couldn't be lightened and still ignite my handloads in double-action and I finally acknowledged that I would never get a second barrel and shroud. Sold it to a friend with more time and money to feed it factory .357 it'll pop and get the spare barrels it deserves. Miss the gun but it's in a better home that appreciates the wooden target stock I'd tracked down to replace the Pachmayr with which it came.

But every cloud has its silver lining. A local needed to come up with cash with the quickness and approached me about his 6" model 57 no dash with target stocks. Five hundred dollars later, it was mine with 38 nickeled cases, two factory loaded 180 grain Barnes bullet based cartridges, and 20 round of 175 grain Winchester Silvertip.

https://i.imgur.com/0fS2pCrl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/aGTNGg8l.jpg

I got to help a good dude, scratch my 41 Rem. Mag. itch, fill the 6" heavy barreled and adjustable sighted magnum hole in the collection, and I already have plans!

Ammo:

-Start with 41 Special using Starline brass. Plan to cast range scrap lead in a Lee 200 grain SWC mold, powder coat, and load over enough Unique to get 950-1,000 FPS in the gun. This will be my primary load. Already have dies and the mold. Given my luck with 180 grain powder coated range scrap lead in 40 S&W, I anticipate no problems.
- After my few hundred rounds of recently delivered 210 grain Remington HTP are emptied, cast 210 grain Lee SWC* over enough powder (likely Unique) to make 1,350-1,400 in this particular gun. A decided magnum load but staid enough to reduce abuse to the gun.

Leather (to be ordered immediately upon tax return):

- Simply Rugged Loaded Pancake with oxblood finish and basketweave tooling.
- Simply Rugged 2x6 pouch with same finish and tooling. Just their name for a traditional and timeless 2x2x2 pouch.
- Simply Rugged 1.5" or 1.75" belt with same finish and tooling.

Support Gear:

- Wolff power rib hammer spring Start with the reduced power and see if ignition is still reliable. If not, reinstal the factory spring until I can get a factory-weight Wolff to try again. Don't know how I forgot to post this important one when originally typing.
- More HKS speedloaders and see if I can find a leather pouch for.
- A handful of Quick Strips if I can find any Tuff Products in stock.
- See if I can save enough scratch to score a brass receivered Henry lever-action to go with it sometime in the next year. Plus Skinner rear sight to immediatly replace the buckhorn that I so hate.
- Now have J, K, and N frame revolvers. The L frame slot needs filled. Thinking a 2.5" 357 Rem. Mag. with either fixed or adjustable sights and a thumb-break leather OWB. This good deal is going to end up very expensive.



* If powder coat proves insufficient, also traditionally lube and see if that helps.

[Tennessee Jed]

Wow, that is beautiful! Reminds me of a 29 that I bought the week I became 21 (not the smartest idea for a young handgun shooter). Hope you get many many years of enjoyment with it.

[SCCY Marshal]

After checking POI at 25 yards with the HTP - dead on - chronographed a cylinder of factory Remington 210 grain HTP jacketed soft points from about four yards back:

- 1,330
- 1,320
- 1,291
- 1,275
- 1,311
- 1,271

Giving me a 59fps extreme spread and average velocity of 1,299 and 2/3 fps so we'll call it 1,300fps for 787 foot pounds muzzle energy. And I felt it.

Working from that, going to slightly change up my magnum home-cast load plan. Will aim for 1,250-1,350fps and pick whatever groups well with no pressure signs or sticky extraction. Ties or near equivalents will favor the lower load to reduce needless pressure increases for marginal gains. This should make Unique a stronger contender for powder without having to use double the amount of HS-6 or deal with H110 and its unwillingness to load much under max. If I can use Unique and roughly halve my powder consumption, even magnum loads will be cheap enough to shoot often enough to get more comfortable with.

The hope is for one of the loads to hit near the POI of Remington HTP out to 50 yards. Would allow me to use the HTP as a field load (ie. excuse for source of occasional fresh brass) unless a handload truly outperforms it while primarily burning something cheaper at the range. If the POI differs notably beyond 50 yards, could just take the hit and burn HTP at the range when shooting longer distances for the far less often it'd be done.

Plan stays same for the special load. Don't think dropping my target 50fps would buy me anything while likely making less efficient use of case capacity with the powders at hand.

And I now definitely want to see if I can swing a Henry by autumn. If the loads gained a couple hundred fps or more from the barrel, it'd be an absolute hoot and strong medicine for most anything short of moose 'round these parts. And need to add a leather cartridge looped butt cuff to my.shopping list. That would really make the package.

Oh, ran a few reps of Claude Werner's 5^5 from low ready. It showed that I need some practice handling magnums what start with four. Could do it but took more concerted effort than I'd like. May have botched it shooting cold.

[deflave]

I hope I never need your help! LOL

Great revolver.

[okie john]

Getting that revolver for $500 would have been a steal 10 years ago.

Your plan sounds solid, but I'd skip the 41 Special brass--it can leave a fouling ring that raises pressures with magnum loads.


Okie John

[SCCY Marshal]

I'm less concerned about extra cleaning in the cylinder than the novelty and ease of deliniating the two LSWC loads. It'll also leave me ready should I ever trip over a cheap used GP100 or Single-Six and send it to get bored out for 41 Special.

[Rosco Benson]

A friend of mine worked for a suburban PD until he retired. Toward the end of the use of revolvers by most PD's, the issue gun was a 4" S&W 657. I can't recall what load was issued.


I had a 4" 657 for a while. I had it Armoloyed by the original Armoloy shop in Ft. Worth. I had a M-58 too. Wish I still had both.


My friend was an Elmer Keith style BIG BULLET guy and this choice pleased him immensely. After a few years, they dropped the revolvers (the guys could buy their duty gun for $1) and issued S&W 9mm's. 5906's IIRC. My friend was so disheartened by the move and had such little confidence in the 9mm that he started firing an excessive number of rounds on each target in multiple-target training scenarios. We eventually got him to quit this practice and he grudgingly got along with the 9mm until his department finally adopted the .45ACP S&W 4506.


The .41 is MUCH gun. Not sure if the early guns have the tendency to unlock and allow the cylinder to turn backwards that the early 29's did (I think the 29-3 is where they implemented the fix), but watch for it with heavy loads. With more comfortable loads, it should not be a problem.


Rosco

[SCCY Marshal]

Decided to have a lazy day and leaf through my copy of Shooting by one J. Henry FitzGerald and it's bumped this handloading project to the top of the list. Need to score me some large pistol primers, a bullet sizing die, and 41 Special brass by the end of April. Until then cast and powder coat some bullets with my 200 grain Lee mold.

https://i.imgur.com/gjClFsgl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5CQc5f5l.jpg

[SeriousStudent]

That is a beauty! I do hope it brings you much enjoyment. :)

[SCCY Marshal]

It's at least bringing me much expense. The first thought that came to mind with the announcement of Trump Bucks was possibly tracking down a 4" model 25 in 45 Colt, adding some Pachmayr stocks, and cooking up a load of 250 grain round nose flat point over enough powder to give ~900 fps, 2x2x2 pouch, and a simple OWB leather holster. N frames have really planted in my brain. Given my 41 Special plans with my end of month paycheck, there's no reason to want the thing. With the exception of it being an awesome project and just different enough from my 57 to avoid redundancy.

Or double down and instead score a 58 to give the same stocks, bob the hammer, garishly highlight the front sight, add a lighter Wolff hammer spring, and try not to carry should I find an AIWB piece of leather. Might lean this way given my love of fixed sight wheelguns. Shame the .41 never got its original police load. It would have been a short hop from 200 grain semiwadcutter to 200 grain semiwadcutter hollowpoint like the lovely old 44 Special loads. The 210 grain semiwadcutter design from the 41 Rem. Mag. should have been easily reworked to a 200 grain hollowpoint to make design relatively quick and easy. My lizard brain chooses to see an alternate history where it caught on and Federal dropped a 200 grain HST in 41 Special.

My 57 alone didn't hook me this hard. The buddy what sold it getting his crisis sorted did. Finally got the 6" layaway Highway Patrolman that had been on hold. It's an old workhorse and the Pachmayr stocks fit us both well while being much trimmer than the target stocks and carry no concerns about dinging when it bumps into things. I'll have to work up some midrange 158 grain lead flat point magnum loads for us to try out in the awesome thing. Offered to buy it off him, as well, but he nearly punched me instead of barking , "NO!"

I've definitely learned why N frame afficionados carry a cultish devotion to the guns. Eagerly waiting on a few more boxes of Remington jacketed softpoints to further enjoy this old game hammer while building up my brass supply. And my tax return to immediately exexute my leather plan.

[SCCY Marshal]

Anyone ever dump a 175 grain Silvertip out of a .41 into ballistic gel?

Dragged out the 57 while having a .22 revolver day with the kids and shot one into a row of gallon jugs covered with four layers of old canvas Dickies work pants. It definitely got me curious about a proper test and I'll also have to try a 180 grain Barnes all-copper bullet into refilled milk jugs. As it is, the 175 shredded the first two bottles, split the third wide open from top to bottom and settled in the fourth where it had poked a large and ragged hole.

https://i.imgur.com/Azcit2xl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/e9narrOl.jpg

With a 130 grain HST +P from a 4" S&W model 10 (same penetration after same fabric) and Winchester .380 SXZ from a SCCY CPX-3 (same fabric but went through five, bounced off sixth, and found a couple feet away) for comparison. Because those were the loads I dumped into my remaining jugs to avoid repacking all that weight.

[SCCY Marshal]

Ordered the leather for my 57 and now to wait. Also ordered a 4" pinned and recessed Highway Patrolman, 200 rounds of factory 357 Mag. to bolster my low brass supply, and already have a holster for the littler N-frame.

Now to sit on the last of my fun money for the year if at all possible. But I'll see something at the gun shop and that'll be that.

[SCCY Marshal]

Well, then. Wife shot my round butt, 4" heavy barreled model 10 the other day and tried to claim it. Was not happy to hear our daughter already had dibs. So I just ordered up a round butt 10-5 snub. We'll see which of us winds up with the 4" pencil barreled Malaysian 10-5, the 10-11, and the 10-5 snub.

And a guy at work picked up the Performance Center M&P 380 Shield EZ with TiN bling on Monday. His wife told him to lose it for something that could stop a bear. So the last of my fun money bought a silly comped 380 ACP to bail him out. Guess my retirement plan is to get into the pimping game given my new option for a Old Man Gun.

I didn't even make it into the shop to burn the last of my fun money. Seems my ski boots will have to last another season and no new rubber on the bicycle...

Back on topic of the model 57, the bollock dagger with red dyed scabbard I ordered to go with the rest of the leather and gun shipped. Here's hoping Customs goes gentle on it as I paid extra for sharpening.

The 41 Special reloading project is on indefinite hold as Unique is sold out. So I have more 210 grain factory magnums on the way as a consolation prize.

[LtDave]

If you can find Universal, it is an almost 1:1 replacement for Unique. I’ve had good results in .44 mag midrange loads.

[SCCY Marshal]

I'll keep that in mind now that a second N-frame is on the roster. Picked up a 4" Highway Patrolman and unmarked but neat holster:

https://i.imgur.com/3SVdToIl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/s8YQRt8l.jpg

[03RN]

I'll keep that in mind now that a second N-frame is on the roster. Picked up a 4" Highway Patrolman and unmarked but neat holster:

https://i.imgur.com/3SVdToIl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/s8YQRt8l.jpg

Thats exactly what im looking for.

Nice find

[Stephanie B]

Thats exactly what im looking for.

You and me both. I am still kicking myself for not snapping up one of the NYSP Model 28s when those were advertised through Shotgun News.

[03RN]

You and me both. I am still kicking myself for not snapping up one of the NYSP Model 28s when those were advertised through Shotgun News.

Ive even got a elpasso saddlery threepersons for it

[SCCY Marshal]

Thats exactly what im looking for.

Nice find

You might want to hold out for one with a bit less endshake and a front sight that is square rather than holster rounded on the right edge. A previous owner also sloped the corners on the rear sight blade to be less snaggy but I appreciate that bit. And the very broken in trigger being butter. Rain or shine, I'm going shooting with this thing in the morning.

[Baldanders]

Anyone ever dump a 175 grain Silvertip out of a .41 into ballistic gel?

Dragged out the 57 while having a .22 revolver day with the kids and shot one into a row of gallon jugs covered with four layers of old canvas Dickies work pants. It definitely got me curious about a proper test and I'll also have to try a 180 grain Barnes all-copper bullet into refilled milk jugs. As it is, the 175 shredded the first two bottles, split the third wide open from top to bottom and settled in the fourth where it had poked a large and ragged hole.

https://i.imgur.com/Azcit2xl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/e9narrOl.jpg

With a 130 grain HST +P from a 4" S&W model 10 (same penetration after same fabric) and Winchester .380 SXZ from a SCCY CPX-3 (same fabric but went through five, bounced off sixth, and found a couple feet away) for comparison. Because those were the loads I dumped into my remaining jugs to avoid repacking all that weight.

IME, 230 grain. 45 ACP Gold Dot from a short (cw45) barrel goes 5 gallon jugs. Most HP .38 loads go 3-4 from a 2".

[Baldanders]

I'll keep that in mind now that a second N-frame is on the roster. Picked up a 4" Highway Patrolman and unmarked but neat holster:

https://i.imgur.com/3SVdToIl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/s8YQRt8l.jpg

You're tugging at my late 80s range rental memories. I would love to have that gun.

[SCCY Marshal]

Highway Patrolman is awesome:

https://i.imgur.com/qW1gH7xl.jpg

One Werner 5^5 from low-ready in the 5" circle then a state police qualification out to 25 yards. All using full-power Magtech 158 grain semi-jacketed hollowpoint factory magnums. Well, except the reload stage. For that, I drew the snubby model 10 as a New York reload of 148 grain wadcutters fired opposite handed.

I even lucked out when checking sight regulation at 25 yards between the 5^5 and qual.

https://i.imgur.com/FBKpduSl.jpg

[SCCY Marshal]

As with the model 57, no plan survives first contact with the enemy. Initial thought for 357 Magnum load development was for a cast and powder coated 158 grain flat point over enough Unique or HS-6 to give about 1,200 to 1,250 feet per second from my 4" barrel. The Magtech 158 grain SJHP averages 1,240fps. While controlable, I'll now plan to see if something between 1,150 and 1,200 average fps will hit to point of aim. Take it easier on the gun while still a magnum charge. Save the perfectly good factory load for the field.

[SCCY Marshal]

I ordered up a knife to go with the 57 rig and it arrived, yesterday:

https://i.imgur.com/xdkb8N8l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/3XtoLsel.jpg

A sharpened bollock dagger from Blighty. Sheath has an open leather thong to be tied however pne wants. The ends passed down behind the belt and tied in front of the sheath hold it securely in place. Doffing or retying to a dangle that swings out of the way is both quick and easy. Being something other than the usual Bowie or more common dirk seems to fit nicely with the 41 Remington Magnum chambering. Hoping the size and impressive spine thickness help provide some measure of support-side counterbalance to the hogleg.

[ACP230]

I have several .41 Magnums in the collection.

Last year a three-inch M657 was my bowling pin revolver at The Pin Shoot
in Central Lake, MI. I used a six-inch M57 at the old Second Chance Bowling
Pin Shoot.

The .41 is my favorite centerfire revolver cartridge, beating out the .38 Special
by a bit, or a bit and a half. Easy to load and very accurate with several weights
of LSWC bullets. Bought a bunch of StarLine brass early on and most of
it is still going strong.

After years of scooping up revolvers when I found them I ordered a Marlin 94 in
.41 as well. Lots of fun to have around as well.

[Trooper224]

I ordered up a knife to go with the 57 rig and it arrived, yesterday:

https://i.imgur.com/xdkb8N8l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/3XtoLsel.jpg

A sharpened bollock dagger from Blighty. Sheath has an open leather thong to be tied however pne wants. The ends passed down behind the belt and tied in front of the sheath hold it securely in place. Doffing or retying to a dangle that swings out of the way is both quick and easy. Being something other than the usual Bowie or more common dirk seems to fit nicely with the 41 Remington Magnum chambering. Hoping the size and impressive spine thickness help provide some measure of support-side counterbalance to the hogleg.

I believe that Bollock is Leo Todeschini's work. Nice.

[SCCY Marshal]

It is and my friend, who bought himself a Cold Steel 1917 cutlass as a university graduation celebration to ape the Finns, made fun of it. I think he's just jealous mine is easier to carry.

[SCCY Marshal]

Leather arrived. Double-layer leather belt matches and is a width of 1.5" to compromise supporting the hogleg to ensure it fits the loops in my trousers:

https://i.imgur.com/f14AIS0l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/LFnnlH6l.jpg

Tha kful a buddy talked me into burning the extra money for cartridge loops on the Loaded Pancake versus the plain Sourdough Pancake. It's great and lets me have 18 rounds of 41 Rem. Mag. on my person, 12 of them flatpack.

[03RN]

Good idea on the loops. Nice looking rig

Be mindful of the dye. I had an oxblood sourdough ruin a pair of pants that i was wearing backpacking in the rain. Between the rain and sweat there's been a red blob where the holster was.

Fortunately they are primarily backpacking pants so they're really not ruined

[SCCY Marshal]

A buddy picked up a set of checkered Walnut target stocks made by Custom Wood Inc. The company was registered in Connecticut January of 1973 and forfeited october of 1980. He didn't quite like the balance on his 6" Highway Patrolman so tossed them to me for my 4" Highway Patrolman. I carved a ton of wood to clear an HKS and make ejection of empties less troublesome. Also rounded the heel of the pommel to avoid chipping a sharp edge or buhhering my elbow against it. Finish was guesswork and I opted for mineral oil which was incorrect. Should have used poly to better match the existing finish and will try a coat after the oil soaks in proper and allows it.

I also partially bobbed the hammer. The flare where the spur widened to thumb piece was removed, leavin just enough of a sharp edge to check for high primers and leave some hammer mass. Gun looks a little meaner, now.

https://i.imgur.com/aNEvEcgl.jpg

The Keith-style holster didn't work quite right with the partial bob and has gone to a historivmcally-minded friend who was in the market for a 4" N-frame OWB. Tough to part but went to a good home and my Bianchi 5BH works just fine even if it isn't as cool.

[SCCY Marshal]

Having the 28-2 is proving to be a great magnum trainer for the 57. Took the .41 out for a few cylinders, today. My 50 yard braced shooting was notably improved, as was my closer range double-action on a timer. I'm getting innoculated to recoil and muzzle blast and have better focus. Turns out my two separate N-frames compliment each other excellently as a pair.

Unique also came back in stock so I have a few pounds on the way. One hundred new 41 Special cases and one thousand large pistol magnum primers are inbound with the powder. Threw in the Lee tumble lube SWC mold for my planned magnum load, as well.

I've got time off coming and 80 pounds of range scrap lead so this seems to be the month for load development. I've only got four calibers on the list plus a revision. Will start with 41 Special (will tweak the load for standard primers after this mess settles down), load a few hundred, then move on to 41 magnum. The bullets themselves will be cast, water quenched, powder coated, and sized all together in one marathon.

Pulled the Wolff factory strength power rib hammer spring out of my Model 10 snub and parked it in the 57. Very subtle and irrelevant change to the trigger but should break in a bit better than the stock spring. Ignition still positive. Returned the stock spring into the K-snub and it has much more positive firing pin strikes. The rib in the Wolff kept the strain screw from putting as much tension on the spring as with the stock unit. That combined with the bobbed hammer gave me lighter strikes than I was comfortable accepting in a carry gun. Problem solved with minimal loss of trigger smoothness. Still a very nice trigger in a lightly used gun so will get even better.

[SCCY Marshal]

It's deer season so left the Joe Friday special at home and strapped on the 57 for a long walk. Stopped at an old party spot for dinner:

https://i.imgur.com/mXUFMmJl.jpg

Don't know who laid the astroturf, drank all the Icehouse, and abandoned the tent poles. I'm just thankful for the chairs which overlook the junction of two logging trail sections, a brook crossing, and the head of a common path to another trail.

[SCCY Marshal]

Eldest hiked to the range with me to zero the fixed 4x on his 243 Win. and wanted a go with the 57. Slender brat stacked 'em in the ten ring of a BT-5 at seven yards. Snub work is also improving in managing to hold the nine ring when trying my EDC bobbed model 10 snub.

I did a walkback on a paper plate stapled over the vitals of a life-ish size boradside deer silhouette the wife drew on a big cardboard sheet, starting at the 15 yard line and pushing in five yard incrememnts. I'm good DA out to 25yd before thumb-cocking is indicated. Stapled a fresh plate over for the kid to work on his rifle shooting and familiarize himself with the proper target zone.

Single-shot rifles and steel revolvers made for a good morning.