Is Shooting Blanks at a Pistol Range a Thing?

[Robh]

First post for me. I am an attorney that from time to time represents people arrested with a firearm in New York City. In one of my cases, an individual claimed that he will go to pistol ranges, not here in NYC, to shoot blanks. Not being a gun owner or someone very familiar with gun ownership, I still thought that shooting blanks at a range was an odd thing to do. I would appreciate anyone sharing their knowledge about what happens at pistol ranges and if shooting blanks is common, uncommon, rare or unheard of behavior. If it does happen, if anyone can explain the purpose.

Some ideas I have had: I imagine that blanks are less expensive than bullets. I also wonder if it might be worth shooting blanks just to exercise the hand in firing a pistol and a pistol range maybe the safest place to do it. I also have heard that it is bad for the firearm to be triggered without a round in the chamber. I also speculate that shooting blanks would not wear out the barrel as much as a projectile.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Rob H.

[LittleLebowski]

First post for me. I am an attorney that from time to time represents people arrested with a firearm in New York City. In one of my cases, an individual claimed that he will go to pistol ranges, not here in NYC, to shoot blanks. Not being a gun owner or someone very familiar with gun ownership, I still thought that shooting blanks at a range was an odd thing to do. I would appreciate anyone sharing their knowledge about what happens at pistol ranges and if shooting blanks is common, uncommon, rare or unheard of behavior. If it does happen, if anyone can explain the purpose.

Some ideas I have had: I imagine that blanks are less expensive than bullets. I also wonder if it might be worth shooting blanks just to exercise the hand in firing a pistol and a pistol range maybe the safest place to do it. I also have heard that it is bad for the firearm to be triggered without a round in the chamber. I also speculate that shooting blanks would not wear out the barrel as much as a projectile.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Rob H.

It's not a thing for anyone to do. I've never heard of it outside of Hollywood. If the firearm is centerfire (not rimfire like say .22 LR), dry firing (pulling the trigger sans ammunition) will not hurt it. Typically, it would take a lot of ammo (tens of thousands of rounds worth) to wear out a barrel. So in other words, I have a hard time believing his story. It's certainly possible, but never heard of it before.

[snow white]

I would assume this man, along with 80% of the gun owning population has no idea what he is doing.

[Trooper224]

A New York attorney, who isn't a gun owner, is asking for situational advice in his/her first post.

Troll somewhere else shylock.

[LittleLebowski]

A New York attorney, who isn't a gun owner, is asking for situational advice in his/her first post.

Troll somewhere else shylock.

Let's see if he reports back, I don't think he's trolling.

[Robh]

A New York attorney, who isn't a gun owner, is asking for situational advice in his/her first post.

Troll somewhere else shylock.

My sympathies to you and your friends. It must be a daily struggle for you to be so easily provoked. Not asking for situational advice. Just inquiring if such a thing exists. I do my best to protect gun owners in a very gun unfriendly jurisdiction. I am a public defender, so I don't charge a fee from my clients. And the name calling, well, that reflects poorly on you more than anything. (Somebody should let you know. Otherwise, how are you going to grow up?)

[LittleLebowski]

My sympathies to you and your friends. It must be a daily struggle for you to be so easily provoked. Not asking for situational advice. Just inquiring if such a thing exists. I do my best to protect gun owners in a very gun unfriendly jurisdiction. I am a public defender, so I don't charge a fee from my clients. And the name calling, well, that reflects poorly on you more than anything. (Somebody should let you know. Otherwise, how are you going to grow up?)

Hey, you're legit and I'm glad you are here. Let's just carry on with the topic, we will help you out.

[Robh]

Hey, you're legit and I'm glad you are here. Let's just carry on with the topic, we will help you out.

To the Dude Who Abides: thank you for your insight. Happy to hear from anyone.

[blues]

Can't say that I've come across this practice at the range...on or off the job in NYC, Miami, nor currently retired in NC.

I can imagine a use for such in training by an instructor to simulate an environment or conditions, but have never seen anyone actually doing this as a shooter on the firing line.

[Wondering Beard]

First post for me. I am an attorney that from time to time represents people arrested with a firearm in New York City. In one of my cases, an individual claimed that he will go to pistol ranges, not here in NYC, to shoot blanks. Not being a gun owner or someone very familiar with gun ownership, I still thought that shooting blanks at a range was an odd thing to do. I would appreciate anyone sharing their knowledge about what happens at pistol ranges and if shooting blanks is common, uncommon, rare or unheard of behavior. If it does happen, if anyone can explain the purpose.

Some ideas I have had: I imagine that blanks are less expensive than bullets. I also wonder if it might be worth shooting blanks just to exercise the hand in firing a pistol and a pistol range maybe the safest place to do it. I also have heard that it is bad for the firearm to be triggered without a round in the chamber. I also speculate that shooting blanks would not wear out the barrel as much as a projectile.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Rob H.

This is very strange sounding. Was that individual just shooting the breeze, or making a statement that would help in a defense or prosecution?

I've never heard of an individual going to the range to shoot blanks, much less going to a different jurisdiction to only shoot blanks.

As to the possibilities you present:
I don't think blanks are less expensive than actual ammo, but then again it never occurred to me to buy blanks. Moreover, and I could stand to be corrected, don't blanks require a specific blanks barrel and a different set of springs just to be able have the gun run for more than one round?
The point of shooting actual ammo is to exercise the hand as that is a very important part of shooting.
Some pistols do less well when dry fired and no dummy in the chamber, specifically the little 22lr, but dummy rounds are cheap to buy.
Unless you're talking about a real cheap gun (not in terms of price but quality), it takes tens of thousands of rounds to use up a pistol barrel.

While I don't discount that someone could go to the range to only shoot blanks, that is just very weird to my ears. You go to the range to actually shoot, and if you don't want to shoot the gun (for various reasons), there are many shooting-like practices that one can do at home in perfect safety.

Are you sure you heard this guy correctly?

[Lester Polfus]

As I'm sure you've experienced in the past, some people are so stupid they even lie to their defense attorney.

I'm not sure how "I was only shooting blanks" could be part of a defense, but if it is, I would tread carefully. If it is a semi-automatic firearm, it would have to be modified to properly cycle with blank ammunition. I would expect one of the questions to be "Oh yeah? Where do you get your blank ammo?"

I've only seen blanks offered for sale at local gun stores in rimfire calibers for use with training dogs and such. Blanks are widely available for common guns such as 9mm pistols and etc, but I've never seen them for sale at local gun stores or shooting ranges. The most common source of supply would be places that produce blanks for the entertainment industry.

Could we possibly have a translation problem? Many folks shoot Airsoft guns, that are quite exact replicas of real firearms but aren't firearms.

You may be limited in what you can share, but we may need some more details to provide cogent information.

[Half Moon]

don't blanks require a specific blanks barrel and a different set of springs just to be able have the gun run for more than one round?

Not necessarily. Think hand actuated firearms - revolvers, lever action, break action, bolt action, yada.

[Zincwarrior]

EDIT: Deleted based on admin advice below.

I will note a reminder that blanks can still be dangerous at very short range, as a couple of actors have actually died from them. They have to have enough force to work the action, which is still a lot of pressure.

[Robh]

This is very strange sounding. Was that individual just shooting the breeze, or making a statement that would help in a defense or prosecution?

I've never heard of an individual going to the range to shoot blanks, much less going to a different jurisdiction to only shoot blanks.

As to the possibilities you present:
I don't think blanks are less expensive than actual ammo, but then again it never occurred to me to buy blanks. Moreover, and I could stand to be corrected, don't blanks require a specific blanks barrel and a different set of springs just to be able have the gun run for more than one round?
The point of shooting actual ammo is to exercise the hand as that is a very important part of shooting.
Some pistols do less well when dry fired and no dummy in the chamber, specifically the little 22lr, but dummy rounds are cheap to buy.
Unless you're talking about a real cheap gun (not in terms of price but quality), it takes tens of thousands of rounds to use up a pistol barrel.

While I don't discount that someone could go to the range to only shoot blanks, that is just very weird to my ears. You go to the range to actually shoot, and if you don't want to shoot the gun (for various reasons), there are many shooting-like practices that one can do at home in perfect safety.

Are you sure you heard this guy correctly?

Thanks for your thoughts. Yeah, it is odd. It was a remark that wasn't central to a debriefing. But a strange comment can raise questions about credibility. And I followed up to make sure I heard it right.

[Wondering Beard]

Not necessarily. Think hand actuated firearms - revolvers, lever action, break action, bolt action, yada.

Thanks, so changes must be made for a semi auto, right?

That brings up the next question, what gun was the individual using when he said he was shooting blanks?

[admin]

This thread isn't in General Discussion or the Romper Room. Be helpful, or at least on topic, or be quiet.

[Half Moon]

Thanks, so changes must be made for a semi auto

I'm not sure about recoil operated or blowback, to be honest, but gas operated absolutely need modified. I suspect recoil or blowback can be modified based on Hollywood cycling them somehow but don't know for sure.

[Robh]

As I'm sure you've experienced in the past, some people are so stupid they even lie to their defense attorney.

I'm not sure how "I was only shooting blanks" could be part of a defense, but if it is, I would tread carefully. If it is a semi-automatic firearm, it would have to be modified to properly cycle with blank ammunition. I would expect one of the questions to be "Oh yeah? Where do you get your blank ammo?"

I've only seen blanks offered for sale at local gun stores in rimfire calibers for use with training dogs and such. Blanks are widely available for common guns such as 9mm pistols and etc, but I've never seen them for sale at local gun stores or shooting ranges. The most common source of supply would be places that produce blanks for the entertainment industry.

Could we possibly have a translation problem? Many folks shoot Airsoft guns, that are quite exact replicas of real firearms but aren't firearms.

You may be limited in what you can share, but we may need some more details to provide cogent information.

I am reluctant to give all the details. But suffice to say, it was a remark that couldn't be part of any defense, it was just a small part of a larger conversation about someone's use of a gun over the years. When someone is nervous and being questioned, they say weird things, that really doesn't help them, and hurts them as far as being believable about the more critical issues. And I could just have the one in a million oddball that shoots blanks at a range. Gun in question is a Ruger P89 loaded with 9mm and .32 bullets at the time it was seized.

Again, thanks for the insight.

[frozentundra]

Thanks for your thoughts. Yeah, it is odd. It was a remark that wasn't central to a debriefing. But a strange comment can raise questions about credibility. And I followed up to make sure I heard it right.

The only logical thing that comes to mind is the use of "snap caps" or other inert training ammunition as being a common practice. It is possible that someone could confuse the term "blanks" with some of the more accurate vernacular used to indicate inert training ammunition.

"Snap caps", "dummy rounds", "safety trainers" are some ways to refer to these products. A-zoom, ST Action Pro, and various other companies make this type of inert training ammunition.

I could definitely see somebody mistakenly referring to these products as "blanks". They don't actually "fire", but you can mix them in with live rounds to purposely induce a malfunction during live fire, or to safely practice administrative gun handling skills without any live ammunition. There are several extremely good reasons that a person would want to do this during training.

Actually firing "blanks", like you would find on a movie set, is something I've never seen. They would be way more expensive and harder to find than regular ammunition simply because of economy of scale. Inert dummy rounds on the other hand are quite common.

[Robh]

The only logical thing that comes to mind is the use of "snap caps" or other inert training ammunition as being a common practice. It is possible that someone could confuse the term "blanks" with some of the more accurate vernacular used to indicate inert training ammunition.

"Snap caps", "dummy rounds", "safety trainers" are some ways to refer to these products. A-zoom, ST Action Pro, and various other companies make this type of inert training ammunition.

I could definitely see somebody mistakenly referring to these products "blanks". They don't actually "fire", but you can mix them in with live rounds to purposely induce a malfunction during live fire, or to safely practice administrative gun handling skills without any live ammunition. There are several extremely good reasons that a person would want to do this during training.

Actually firing "blanks", like you would find on a movie set, is something I've never seen. They would be way more expensive and harder to find than regular ammunition simply because of economy of scale. Inert dummy rounds on the other hand are quite common.

Thank you! That is something specific I can follow up on.

[HeavyDuty]

My first thought would be him trying to explain away GSR or a dirty barrel. Also, the 9mm Ruger was loaded with both 9mm and .32 ammunition? No bueno.

[Robh]

My first thought would be him trying to explain away GSR or a dirty barrel. Also, the 9mm Ruger was loaded with both 9mm and .32 ammunition? No bueno.

GSR= gun shot residue?

[BehindBlueI's]

Blanks are generally not cheaper. Often quite a bit more expensive then bulk ball ammo.

It's not a thing to do.

[frozentundra]

I am reluctant to give all the details. But suffice to say, it was a remark that couldn't be part of any defense, it was just a small part of a larger conversation about someone's use of a gun over the years. When someone is nervous and being questioned, they say weird things, that really doesn't help them, and hurts them as far as being believable about the more critical issues. And I could just have the one in a million oddball that shoots blanks at a range. Gun in question is a Ruger P89 loaded with 9mm and .32 bullets at the time it was seized.

Again, thanks for the insight.

If the P89 magazine was loaded with 9mm--AND .32 ACP--then you are already so far outside of the realm of statistical probability that firing blanks at the range is no longer even hard to believe. That's just......I don't even know. It suggests incompetence on a scale that passes dangerous, or a level of eccentricity on par with Willy Wonka.

Either way, I wish you good luck.

[blues]

If the P89 magazine was loaded with 9mm--AND .32 ACP--then you are already so far outside of the realm of statistical probability that firing blanks at the range is no longer even hard to believe. That's just......I don't even know. It suggests incompetence on a scale that passes dangerous, or a level of eccentricity on par with Willy Wonka.

Either way, I wish you good luck.

Clearly testing the waters for a non compos mentis / insanity plea. ;)

[Lester Polfus]

We seized a pistol once that had 9mm Parabellum, .380 and 9mm Makarov ammo all in the same magazine.

I'm sure about that part. I want to say the pistol in question was actually a .40, but I might be wrong about that.

[Joe in PNG]

I'll throw in that shooting blanks at a range is really, really odd, and something I've never heard of before.

[psalms144.1]

Not that you need to hear it again, but shooting blanks on a firing line makes absolutely no sense at all, UNLESS he was doing to so in order to cause malfunctions in his pistol. But, as other have pointed out, it would be a lot easier and cheaper to use snap caps to accomplish the same thing.

[Joe in PNG]

Of course, someone loading .32acp rounds into a 9mm is unlikely to be switched on enough to practice things like ball & dummy drills.

[deflave]

I have never heard of this practice in my life.

[mmc45414]

If there is GSR residue would it not be unique to blanks? Are they not typically loaded with black powder?
We can speculate that your question is rooted in if you should consider this dood credible, and I would say this is sketchy.

[Robh]

I have never heard of this practice in my life.

A consensus is emerging! Thank you everyone.

[HeavyDuty]

GSR= gun shot residue?

Yes, sir.

[HeavyDuty]

If there is GSR residue would it not be unique to blanks? Are they not typically loaded with black powder?
We can speculate that your question is rooted in if you should consider this dood credible, and I would say this is sketchy.

That’s a good point - I think I read once they are black power or pyrodex.

[HeavyDuty]

A consensus is emerging! Thank you everyone.

Hang around and enjoy the fun!

[Cookie Monster]

I'll add to it the consensus instead of working.

I've been into firearms as a hobby for a decade, taken 500 hours of instruction, always buy ammo in 1000 round cases, and check PF way too many times a day.

I do not even know where to buy blanks, have no desire to use them, and have never heard of such a thing.

Stay around and enjoy, get a Glock 19, a good training class, a case of ammo, and start dry practicing. Orange holsters and AIWB carry is optional for the first little while.

[Wondering Beard]

The only logical thing that comes to mind is the use of "snap caps" or other inert training ammunition as being a common practice. It is possible that someone could confuse the term "blanks" with some of the more accurate vernacular used to indicate inert training ammunition.

"Snap caps", "dummy rounds", "safety trainers" are some ways to refer to these products. A-zoom, ST Action Pro, and various other companies make this type of inert training ammunition.

I could definitely see somebody mistakenly referring to these products as "blanks". They don't actually "fire", but you can mix them in with live rounds to purposely induce a malfunction during live fire, or to safely practice administrative gun handling skills without any live ammunition. There are several extremely good reasons that a person would want to do this during training.

Actually firing "blanks", like you would find on a movie set, is something I've never seen. They would be way more expensive and harder to find than regular ammunition simply because of economy of scale. Inert dummy rounds on the other hand are quite common.



Thank you! That is something specific I can follow up on.

That's why I wondered if you had heard your guy correctly. However, those snap caps/dummies/etc.. are for use in the home not the range. To go to the range and just use snap caps is truly weird (and might even get noticed by the range officers -something to follow up on as well, if he ever went to any range).

The extra information you have provided doesn't make me feel anywhere near confident about the credibility of that individual. I get the feeling that if he's lying to you about something as benign as going to the range (where if he had shot that gun with the mix of ammo found, the gun would have malfunctioned), he's lying to you about stuff that's more important.

[HCM]

I am reluctant to give all the details. But suffice to say, it was a remark that couldn't be part of any defense, it was just a small part of a larger conversation about someone's use of a gun over the years. When someone is nervous and being questioned, they say weird things, that really doesn't help them, and hurts them as far as being believable about the more critical issues. And I could just have the one in a million oddball that shoots blanks at a range. Gun in question is a Ruger P89 loaded with 9mm and .32 bullets at the time it was seized.

Again, thanks for the insight.

IME mixed ammo / wrong caliber ammo in a gun is a red flag associated with criminal activity.

Re: your earlier question, blanks are used in theatrical/film productions and in some types of tactical training. No reasonable or normal reason I have ever seen to go to a range and shot blanks. However there are “blank only” guns that are not legally firearms which are often used for these purposes.

What I have seen is people who have used blank fire, inoperable and “dummy” guns to try and scare or intimidate people in robberies and confrontations. They get away with it sometimes but doesn’t end well.

[HCM]

We seized a pistol once that had 9mm Parabellum, .380 and 9mm Makarov ammo all in the same magazine.

I'm sure about that part. I want to say the pistol in question was actually a .40, but I might be wrong about that.

9mm will chamber and fire in .40 pistols though it will cause malfunctions.

[frozentundra]

That's why I wondered if you had heard your guy correctly. However, those snap caps/dummies/etc.. are for use in the home not the range. To go to the range and just use snap caps is truly weird (and might even get noticed by the range officers -something to follow up on as well, if he ever went to any range).

The extra information you have provided doesn't make me feel anywhere near confident about the credibility of that individual. I get the feeling that if he's lying to you about something as benign as going to the range (where if he had shot that gun with the mix of ammo found, the gun would have malfunctioned), he's lying to you about stuff that's more important.

I have used "dummy rounds" at an indoor range on many occasions. There are plenty of very good training related reasons to do this. Now that the whole '.32 rounds mixed in with 9mm' comes to light, I kind of doubt that's what happened in this case. However, it doesn't change the fact that inert training rounds have great utility at pretty much any shooting venue.

[Wondering Beard]

I have used "dummy rounds" at an indoor range on many occasions. There are plenty of very good training related reasons to do this. Now that the whole '.32 rounds mixed in with 9mm' comes to light, I kind of doubt that's what happened in this case. However, it doesn't change the fact that inert training rounds have great utility at pretty much any shooting venue.

Sure, as part of shooting practice using dummy rounds along with real ammo make sense. Going to the range just to shoot dummy rounds or blanks? not so much.

[blues]

Maybe it's a paternity case and the plaintiff is alleging the defendant impregnated her at the range. His defense is that he was shooting blanks.

(I'll be here all week.)

[mmc45414]

9mm will chamber and fire in .40 pistols though it will cause malfunctions.
I, I mean some guy I know, did that once. It was surprisingly normal, though the gun didn't cycle.

[NH Shooter]

blues beat me to it. I've been firing blanks for about 20 years, but only at my private bedroom range.

[edison]

Maybe your client meant wax bullets? Like what they use for cowboy fast draw? Maybe foam ear plug bullets? Not blanks, but also not normally lethal.

[Darth_Uno]

In my entire shooting “career”, I’ve fired exactly six .38 blanks. And while I’m not sure I’ve made it to the hundreds yet, at least tens of thousands of rounds of ball (FMJ) ammo.

I do not know of a single person who fires blanks for any sort of practice. Not saying they don’t exist...just never heard of it.

[OlongJohnson]

I am reluctant to give all the details. But suffice to say, it was a remark that couldn't be part of any defense, it was just a small part of a larger conversation about someone's use of a gun over the years. When someone is nervous and being questioned, they say weird things, that really doesn't help them, and hurts them as far as being believable about the more critical issues. And I could just have the one in a million oddball that shoots blanks at a range. Gun in question is a Ruger P89 loaded with 9mm and .32 bullets at the time it was seized.


We seized a pistol once that had 9mm Parabellum, .380 and 9mm Makarov ammo all in the same magazine.

I'm sure about that part. I want to say the pistol in question was actually a .40, but I might be wrong about that.


IME mixed ammo / wrong caliber ammo in a gun is a red flag associated with criminal activity.

I've read before of a firearm being seized from a criminal type loaded with multiple different calibers of ammo. The quote was something along the lines of, "It doesn't matter, any bullet will work." My mind went straight to the bolded part above.

[Baldanders]

.32acp in a 9mm mag is certainly proof of low competence in handling firearms.

OTOH, this is a forum with a user base that is pretty precise about terminology. Maybe "blanks" meant something else, like "dummies," as others in the thread have postulated.

It usually takes me a few minutes(when I am talking to students who are low fluency)to pull out actual details of firearm stories I hear. I have to ask a lot of questions. Usually their "first pass" is fairly incoherent. It is possible something similar is happening here.

I don't know where to buy blanks, either. And I've been shooting for over 30 years.

[OlongJohnson]

Someone mentioned rimfire blanks earlier. Just to note, they are readily available.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder-actuated_tool

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Power-Tools-Powder-Actuated-Tools-Accessories/N-5yc1vZc2b8

They are also what would typically be used in a non-projectile-firing "starter pistol." It's also possible to use them to fire a .22 airgun pellet from a .22 pistol as a breech-loading single shot, or so I've read.

Interesting detail that the .17 WSM cartridge came about because Winchester was making a .25 caliber rimfire blank for construction tools and decided to expand that production by developing an actual firearm cartridge.

[TGS]

If the P89 magazine was loaded with 9mm--AND .32 ACP--then you are already so far outside of the realm of statistical probability that firing blanks at the range is no longer even hard to believe. That's just......I don't even know. It suggests incompetence on a scale that passes dangerous, or a level of eccentricity on par with Willy Wonka.

Either way, I wish you good luck.

Not terribly uncommon with criminals. I'd even say indicative of such activity, as opposed to simply being an ignorant but otherwise law abiding gun owner.

A garden-variety 9mm loaded with 32 and being referred to as a "Glock Fo-tay with dum dums that will go through a cops vest" is pretty stereotypical for the criminal subset of society.

I'm guessing the person in possession of this gun in question was on his way to church, minding his own business and dint'du'nuffin.

[Alpha Sierra]

Gun in question is a Ruger P89 loaded with 9mm and .32 bullets at the time it was seized.

Not only is shooting blanks at thing at all, with the exception of theatricals and maybe a starter's pistol, but the highlighted is extremely odd and not indicative of anyone who knows anything about proper handgun operation.

In the interested of technical accuracy, modern firearms aren't loaded with bullets. They are loaded with cartridges. The cartridge consists of a case (a cylindrical container made of a soft metal like brass), a primer (the little button at the base of the cartridge, which ignites the powder charge when struck by the firearm's firing pin), the propellant (almost always smokeless gunpowder) and the projectile (aka the bullet).

[HCM]

I, I mean some guy I know, did that once. It was surprisingly normal, though the gun didn't cycle.

My agency issues .40 cal (transitioning to 9) but has issued and /or allowed 9mm for years.

We used to do all Duty ammo with .40 being all brass and 9mm being all nickel cases. Still had mix ups.

Nor that we run purple Winchester training Ammo in both calibers it has become a more frequent occurrence.

[Cypher]

please disregard

[HCM]

If this has already been suggested I apologize (wouldn't want to offend the cognoscenti) but is it possible the person is using a starter pistol?

The person was arrested and is being represented by the OP. The pistol was an actual firearm,a Ruger P89.

[Cypher]

The person was arrested and is being represented by the OP. The pistol was an actual firearm,a Ruger P89.

Thank you I noticed that right after I posted.

[Ed L]

In NY City and NY State, one must have a permit to even possess a handgun, unless you are military acting as part of your job or an LEO.

Virtually every shooting range in the state will demand to see your permit before letting you shoot.

If this person is going to shooting ranges, they will ask to see his permit and not let him shoot unless he has a permit.

To complicate the matter, blanks are not commonly available.

[abu fitna]

If the subject is of Russian ethnicity, or has run with Russian crews or their associates in the past, this may also be an inherited lie. In Moscow & St Pete in particular, modified blank firing weapons are common and assertion that they were only used as such by the holder may be an attempt to set up an unwitting possession defense. Perhaps here incompletely pursued, or insufficiently understood based on whatever chain of oral tradition as the story was passed along.

[elsquid]

That's why I wondered if you had heard your guy correctly. However, those snap caps/dummies/etc.. are for use in the home not the range. To go to the range and just use snap caps is truly weird (and might even get noticed by the range officers -something to follow up on as well, if he ever went to any range).


I do dryfire at the range on occasion, though I can’t be bothered to use snap caps. Maybe some people do?

— Michael

[HopetonBrown]

IME mixed ammo / wrong caliber ammo in a gun is a red flag associated with criminal activity.


Reminded me of this pic from Instagram. 49432

[HCM]

That's why I wondered if you had heard your guy correctly. However, those snap caps/dummies/etc.. are for use in the home not the range. To go to the range and just use snap caps is truly weird (and might even get noticed by the range officers -something to follow up on as well, if he ever went to any range).


I do dryfire at the range on occasion, though I can’t be bothered to use snap caps. Maybe some people do?

— Michael

Dummy rounds are used at the range for ball and dummy drills to attenuate recoil anticipation issues, malfunction clearance drills etc.

They’re not just for dry fire.

But Dummy rounds and blanks are two completely different things.

[wvincent]

If the subject is of Russian ethnicity, or has run with Russian crews or their associates in the past, this may also be an inherited lie. In Moscow & St Pete in particular, modified blank firing weapons are common and assertion that they were only used as such by the holder may be an attempt to set up an unwitting possession defense. Perhaps here incompletely pursued, or insufficiently understood based on whatever chain of oral tradition as the story was passed along.

Just for clarity on my part, are you saying blank (starter pistol's) modified to actually fire a live round?
Will the pistol even handle the pressure?

[mmc45414]

We used to do all Duty ammo with .40 being all brass and 9mm being all nickel cases. Still had mix ups.
Are they all even the same/similar guns? In my case my BIL had a bag full of Glocks and loaded magazines. We were at an indoor range and I was helping a bit to coach his lesser experienced adult sons. I think I might have been the one to fire the actual shot, and it was not that abnormal. I think I have the case around somewhere.

OTOH, a friend that has recently become more active in shooting bought a 9mm and a .40 M&P, but has been almost exclusively shooting the 9mm. Those mix ups become apparent when you are clearing the stoppage.

Also, this thread has mentioned guns being seized with magazines staggered with incompatible ammo. I have often wondered WTH when reading news stories where someone is "miraculously saved" when a modern gun suddenly "jammed", perhaps this brings some clarity to that.

[UNM1136]

HCM and TGS have it right on, IME. On the range I have seen a .45 chamber and fire a .40...with attendant case rupture. Weapon was a Sig.

Recently recovered a stolen .38 S&W revolver loaded with 9x18 Mak and .380 blanks from a tweeker in a stolen car.

pat

[abu fitna]

Just for clarity on my part, are you saying blank (starter pistol's) modified to actually fire a live round?
Will the pistol even handle the pressure?

Russian blank firing weapons are not the same as starter pistols. These are purpose built firearms that fall under a specific section of Russian criminal code. These are typically chambered in 9x22mm PAK, and are legally permitted to be sold with unobstructed barrels for less lethal rounds (rubber ball, CS gas, etc.)

Modifications of these nonlethal systems to fire 9x18mm Makarov cartridges are common. Such conversions often leverage a certain degree of corruption, where "private security" or other licensed (issued to only to connected persons) officially purchase only the nonlethal version; and if they have problems with mere possession can pay out to avoid miltsia (city police) paying attention to any irregularities with design. If caught in use, depending on charge and context, the defense that they didn't realize it was capable of firing live rounds has been successfully used (again, sometimes in connection with appropriate interventions by the offender's krysha - corrupt protection structure). This has given rise to the belief that claiming one only used a weapon for blanks is a useful statement under interrogation, which is sometimes conveyed as part of the oral lore of those involved with certain groups in discussion of prior hits, raids, etc.

Legacy TT and IZh-79 / 6P42 Makarov pistol clones chambered for nonlethal rounds and converted back to 9x18mm MAK are known, and newer Klimovsk pistols are commonly adapted. There is also a fully automatic SMG style weapon based on the KEDR design called KAPLAN that is common; and reportedly favored due to associated with certain Russian special forces elements (where private security turned criminal muscle then either seeks out from actual prior experience with the platform, or attempted mimicry of the cool kids). An 18mm shotgun style nonlethal conversion has also been documented, but less frequently observed as this requires nonstandard, custom ammunition manufacture.

The Baikal Makarov clone conversions are often found in criminal hands throughout Europe, including in multiple cases in the UK. Royal Armories has a reference example in their stacks.

This is all generally not something seen in the US. But stories have an odd way of moving through underground cultures, thus the stipulation re nationalities involved in case, as this is about the only context I have ever seen reference to blanks raised.

[HCM]

Are they all even the same/similar guns? In my case my BIL had a bag full of Glocks and loaded magazines. We were at an indoor range and I was helping a bit to coach his lesser experienced adult sons. I think I might have been the one to fire the actual shot, and it was not that abnormal. I think I have the case around somewhere.

OTOH, a friend that has recently become more active in shooting bought a 9mm and a .40 M&P, but has been almost exclusively shooting the 9mm. Those mix ups become apparent when you are clearing the stoppage.

Also, this thread has mentioned guns being seized with magazines staggered with incompatible ammo. I have often wondered WTH when reading news stories where someone is "miraculously saved" when a modern gun suddenly "jammed", perhaps this brings some clarity to that.

Nope. .40 SIGs and HKs and 9mm Glocks. Many have one of each though.

The case mouth of the 9mm brass expands to fit the .40 chamber and winds up a bell shape.

[psalms144.1]

Over the years, I've seen PLENTY of 9mm brass "fire formed" into .40 S&W chamber dimensions; likewise .40 S&W into .45 ACP. No matter how many times I explain what three separate areas I'm placing the ammunition BY CALIBER, some chucklehead invariably finds a way to get the wrong stuff. It is pretty amazing the number of times I've seen trained LEOs jam a 9mm magazine chock full of .40 S&W ammo. As difficult as it is to load each round, you'd think somewhere along the line the "clue" light would start blinking.

All of this leaves nothing compared to the nuclear engineer who loaded five magazines with 12 rounds each - primer forward on every round...

[OlongJohnson]

Were they H&K mags?

[Caballoflaco]

Here’s an interview with a blank firing gun Subject matter expert who describes the modifications necessary to make a pistol like the p89 shoot reliably with blanks. Suffice to say firing blanks at the range is not a thing.

It’s a long video, but the most relevant information for you is from ~1:30-4:00.
Take note when he mentions the difficulty of converting the glock 17 to blanks since it uses the same operating system as the Ruger p89.


https://youtu.be/GnOUrRTf6jg

[Chuck Whitlock]

Someone mentioned rimfire blanks earlier. Just to note, they are readily available.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder-actuated_tool

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Power-Tools-Powder-Actuated-Tools-Accessories/N-5yc1vZc2b8

They are also what would typically be used in a non-projectile-firing "starter pistol." It's also possible to use them to fire a .22 airgun pellet from a .22 pistol as a breech-loading single shot, or so I've read.



Good responses given in this thread. In addition to the above nail guns/starter pistols, the only legitimate blank usage I am aware of is for military or law enforcement funeral details, but these are typically .308 or .223 rifle calibers.

[UpDok]

Good responses given in this thread. In addition to the above nail guns/starter pistols, the only legitimate blank usage I am aware of is for military or law enforcement funeral details, but these are typically .308 or .223 rifle calibers.

I'm not military or law enforcement, but a few years ago I bought a 50 rd box of Prvi Partizan 9 mm blank ammo. I have used a few of them at 4th of July barbecues fired thru a HK P30 and a HK P2000SK. The Prvi Partizan pistol blanks fed from the magazine of both pistols but there was not enough recoil to function the pistols for automatic reloading. In fact in the two pistols I tried the slide also needed to be manually locked back and the empty case either shaken out of the pistol, or the magazine removed and the empty case removed thru the grip's magazine opening because the crimped nose of the blank expanded so it was too large to eject normally thru the ejection port when the slide was pulled back manually. The blanks were a pain in the butt to use.

The 9mm blanks definitely work better in the movies with worked over movie prop pistols than with the two live handguns I tried. I have since switched over to lighting firecrackers on the 4th instead of fussing around with the blanks in auto-loading handguns

[NuJudge]

Lots of blanks are used in construction and industry. In construction, lots of .22 blanks are used, in various strengths, to do things like nail a piece of wood to the floor. The blanks are not expensive.

Those I have seen used in industry was 30 years ago in a steel mill. They were used to drive nails through steel plate into ingot molds made of gray iron. In different steel mills, I saw tools that had what looked like a 6-shot revolver cylinder, and different mills used .38 S&W or .38 Special blanks. I would not be surprised if there were other powder actuated tools using blanks in other calibers.

All of the above blanks were used in fantastic quantities, and were not expensive. I never tried firing them in a .38 revolver.

I do have a lot of military blanks. I've never fired any of them. Most I got just for the brass, and were at firesale prices. All are in rifle calibers.