Pat Rogers' S&W 1917 revolver went on sale this morning

[SeriousStudent]

https://www.facebook.com/AllShootersTactical/

49283

It belonged to Pat Rogers, and is US Army marked. I have been wanting one of these for years.

I have no impulse control. A kind friend tipped me off to this, and I had to buy it. I wanted it to stay "in the family" so to speak, and not get chopped up or altered. It will stay exactly as he owned it.

I'm going to loan it to Darryl and Wayne, and ask them to shoot it at Tac-Con. It will glorious to watch. :)

[Wayne Dobbs]

https://www.facebook.com/AllShootersTactical/

49283

It belonged to Pat Rogers, and is US Army marked. I have been wanting one of these for years.

I have no impulse control. A kind friend tipped me off to this, and I had to buy it. I wanted it to stay "in the family" so to speak, and not get chopped up or altered. It will stay exactly as he owned it.

I'm going to loan it to Darryl and Wayne, and ask them to shoot it at Tac-Con. It will glorious to watch. :)

That is a quality purchase you made! I will be honored to shoot it (and I have some full moon clips, too).

[ralph]

That’s in beautiful shape, anyone who would hack that up has to have rocks in their head...

[SeriousStudent]

That is a quality purchase you made! I will be honored to shoot it (and I have some full moon clips, too).

Deal. :) I want to pick your and Darryl's brains about the right leather to track down for it.

I'd love to find a period US Army holster, and then a rig that an LEO would have worn. If you gents have info regarding Uncle Pat's tastes in that regard, I would like to follow them.

[okie john]

https://www.facebook.com/AllShootersTactical/

49283

It belonged to Pat Rogers, and is US Army marked. I have been wanting one of these for years.

I have no impulse control. A kind friend tipped me off to this, and I had to buy it. I wanted it to stay "in the family" so to speak, and not get chopped up or altered. It will stay exactly as he owned it.

I'm going to loan it to Darryl and Wayne, and ask them to shoot it at Tac-Con. It will glorious to watch. :)

Thank you for this. It’s a lot like The Nature Conservancy buying up land so it doesn’t get developed.


Okie John

[03RN]

Beautiful.

I think the old flap holster was standard issue.

A nice boarder engraved threepersons would be nice too.

[Cory]

That's awesome. Thanks for making sure this is preserved.

-Cory

[Lex Luthier]

That is the nicest condition example I have yet seen. Congratulations!

[TCinVA]

He had quite a collection. I had the opportunity to look at what was probably only 1/4 of it at AST prior to it going on the walls and in the cases for the public. I plucked this gem from the pile:

49294

[vcdgrips]

Great find.

It looks like they have been trickling out guns from Pat since the fall.

I saw the Argentine "1911" at class, Mid Mo 2008. It felt slightly melted in the hand and was far smoother than you would think.
I have two kids in college and I would have bought that gun for 500 plus shipping/transfers etc.

[entropy]

Serious Student,

You're a class act.

Keep us posted.

[Trooper224]

Oh my.

First, I see a vintage Shelby Cobra today while out shopping with the wife, now this.

[JonInWA]

Oh my.

First, I see a vintage Shelby Cobra today while out shopping with the wife, now this.

She gets to shop, you get to shop....Problem??

Best, Jon

[SeriousStudent]

Beautiful.

I think the old flap holster was standard issue.

A nice border engraved threepersons would be nice too.

That's pretty much what i was thinking. I vaguely recall seeing some as a crossdraw.

And an SD Myres was recommended by Wayne. One of their original Threepersons rigs would look very cool. I met a guy at the S&W Collectors Show here in Dallas last year, he had an amazing rig that would be perfect.

[SeriousStudent]

Many thanks to the rest of you for the kind words. It is rare that life presents an honor, a privilege, a pleasure and a responsibility all at the same time.

The instant it arrives, I'm sending the serial number off to Smith and Wesson for a letter. I'd love to trace its path, if possible, from the factory to Pat's hands.

I'll put together a package of documentation, so that's it's preserved after I'm gone. I'll also update the codicil to my will, this one gets a specific recipient.

Wayne suggested that I contact those nice folks at Black Hills about their lower-velocity 230-grain ball ammo to shoot in it. If anyone has a source, please sing out. I'll reach out to Jeff and crew Monday, I have always enjoyed shooting their ammo.

More to come! :)

[03RN]

Im not real familiar with these beyond i think they're cool but is there a reason why you need lower recoil than standard ball?

[okie john]

Im not real familiar with these beyond i think they're cool but is there a reason why you need lower recoil than standard ball?

Those tiny grips, plus it’s easier on a 90-year-old gun.


Okie John

[SeriousStudent]

Those tiny grips, plus it’s easier on a 90-year-old gun.


Okie John

And let's not forget arthritis. It's been getting worse, particularly in the left hand.

Wayne suggested the load to me, and advised it would help preserve the pistol. Preserving my joints is a nice thing as well.

[03RN]

Never thought standard ball would wear on these big guns but i guess they are over 100 years old.

[Half Moon]

Never thought standard ball would wear on these big guns but i guess they are over 100 years old.

Having multiple 1917's, and having fired a lot of rounds through them, I don't think standard ammo really wears on them any more or less than any other handgun. No real wear signs with mine using whatever 230 grain ball is cheap this week plus the occasional load of Hydrashock or HST. They are generally softer steel since, as I recall anyways, Smith didn't start heat treating their revolvers until 1918. It's still a lot of thick steel in that N frame though. Perceived recoil is stiff but manageable but definitely higher perceived than a steel framed 1911 Government. The right Pachymahrs can cut the perceived recoil a lot but mean removing the lanyard ring. Great revolvers only hampered by the horrible sights common to their time.

[Poconnor]

Hopefully they will list more guns from Pat’s collection. I would love to get one. I can’t explain why his death hit me so hard. I only took two of his classes and I was already signed up for another when he died. But Pat was one of kind. I greatly enjoyed his classes, his articles and his posts (and his T-shirts ) I was looking forward to taking my sons to his classes. Every time I think of him I think We are diminished.

[SeriousStudent]

I actually have a 1937 Smith 45 ACP that I bought from Dagga Boy, and then traded into some very nice elk stocks from him. It's a fun shooter, and will doubtless get a lot more range time than Pat's gun.

DB told me that it came from a South Texas LEO who wanted a big N frame, but did not want the Brazilian crest on the sideplate. So that lawman found a S&W 1917 sideplate, and had it fitted to the revolver. The elk stocks look very nice, and feel good in the hand and when shooting.

It seems to like the Speer 230-grain FMJ, and groups well with it. It's a lot of fun on a plate rack. :)

As soon as I get the upstairs gun room reloading setup organized, I'm going to do some load development for it. I have a couple of grains of Bullseye, and a few cases and projectiles. Doing a bunny-fart load should not be hard, I'll just keep them seperate from the 1911 chow.

[mtnbkr]

It seems to like the Speer 230-grain FMJ, and groups well with it. It's a lot of fun on a plate rack. :)

As soon as I get the upstairs gun room reloading setup organized, I'm going to do some load development for it. I have a couple of grains of Bullseye, and a few cases and projectiles. Doing a bunny-fart load should not be hard, I'll just keep them seperate from the 1911 chow.

I've found 4.4gr Bullseye under a 230gr plated RN bullet in a 45acp case to be very soft shooting and accurate in my 625.

Chris

[Screwball]

That’s a pretty sweet pickup... I’ve been a fan of the 1917s for a few years, but neither of mine have anything too remarkable to speak of. My Colt was shipped to Brooklyn in July of 1918... and my S&W is a Brazilian that I didn’t letter yet (has a few British proof marks, but doubt any of that will be told in the letter).

Question for those with 1917s... how do you carry them? I tried the holster for my 6” 629-1, but doesn’t fit correctly. Don’t want a military like holster, but something to show the guns off on specific holidays.

[Half Moon]

Question for those with 1917s... how do you carry them? I tried the holster for my 6” 629-1, but doesn’t fit correctly. Don’t want a military like holster, but something to show the guns off on specific holidays.

Not going to be much help here. I've usually just gone with the military flap type holster you can find knock offs of in varying quality. My first 1917 came with a cheap Uncle Mike's holster that worked fine but definitely wouldn't be for showing off. As I recall at least a couple of the custom holster makers have molds. Simply Rugged has the 1917 in their list for the Sourdough Pancake. I almost bought one from them once but hit other priorities and didn't come back to it.

[wvincent]

Alex at American Classic Gunleather would probably be game for something like this.
Also, awesome catch there SeriousStudent.

[Joe in PNG]

I snagged a good shooter quality 1917 about 12 years ago. Mechanically sound, but re-blued.
The Pachymahr presentation grips worked pretty good, and made for a sweet shooting gun, especially for this recoil wimp.

Sold it a few years back, as I wasn't shooting it.

[richiecotite]

Hopefully they will list more guns from Pat’s collection. I would love to get one. I can’t explain why his death hit me so hard. I only took two of his classes and I was already signed up for another when he died. But Pat was one of kind. I greatly enjoyed his classes, his articles and his posts (and his T-shirts ) I was looking forward to taking my sons to his classes. Every time I think of him I think We are diminished.

All Shooters is my LGS, I went in Saturday to pick up a transfer and asked about the Rogers collection guns. They also had one of his EAG BCM guns on the wall for $1500. If I had the money...

If what the guy told me is accurate, they’ll be posting his guns for a good long time, at least months and more likely the rest of this year and some of next.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KellyinAvon]

That’s a pretty sweet pickup... I’ve been a fan of the 1917s for a few years, but neither of mine have anything too remarkable to speak of. My Colt was shipped to Brooklyn in July of 1918... and my S&W is a Brazilian that I didn’t letter yet (has a few British proof marks, but doubt any of that will be told in the letter).

Question for those with 1917s... how do you carry them? I tried the holster for my 6” 629-1, but doesn’t fit correctly. Don’t want a military like holster, but something to show the guns off on specific holidays.

M1917 is a weapon of war. You gotta go with the flap holster (US imprint of course) and wear it cavalry-draw.

[revchuck38]

This (https://epsaddlery.com/product/1917-holster/) would be the proper holster for it.

[KellyinAvon]

This (https://epsaddlery.com/product/1917-holster/) would be the proper holster for it.

That's what mine looks like! It wasn't that expensive and is no doubt not that nice, but it looks just like that.

[Screwball]

This (https://epsaddlery.com/product/1917-holster/) would be the proper holster for it.

Very well may be... but I’m not carrying it like that.

Simply Rugged seems like the best bet. Thanks for the lead, Half Moon. [emoji106]

[Dagga Boy]

As far as holsters.....I d have Alex at American Classic Gunleather do a BAsketweave or floral holster for it. Option two....shoulder rig like Brad Pitts in Fury.

[Spartan1980]

Many thanks to the rest of you for the kind words. It is rare that life presents an honor, a privilege, a pleasure and a responsibility all at the same time.

The instant it arrives, I'm sending the serial number off to Smith and Wesson for a letter. I'd love to trace its path, if possible, from the factory to Pat's hands.

I'll put together a package of documentation, so that's it's preserved after I'm gone. I'll also update the codicil to my will, this one gets a specific recipient.

Wayne suggested that I contact those nice folks at Black Hills about their lower-velocity 230-grain ball ammo to shoot in it. If anyone has a source, please sing out. I'll reach out to Jeff and crew Monday, I have always enjoyed shooting their ammo.

More to come! :)

First of all, CONFREAKINGGRATS on that snag!

As to ammo, .45ACP is pretty low pressure to begin with. I'd not terribly worry about a quality standard ball ammo in it, but with the provenience of that gun, it's always a good idea to go easy on it. Running it at "at speed" would concern me more for cylinder notch peening.

Might be kind or pricey but there is this. Seems to be pretty mild.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=340

[CWM11B]

That gun is beautiful. I have a 1917, US Army marked. A neighbor where I used to live had me over to his house to check it out one day. He was older, and anti-handgun. This was his grandfather's piece, that he carried with Blackjack Pershing during the punitive expeditions against Pancho Villa. After his grandfather's service was over, he joined the Texas Rangers and carried it there. My neighbor wanted to know how to get it destroyed. I begged him not to do it and at least donate it th o a museum due to the historical value. He said he'd think about it. Two days later he knocks on my door and hands me a bag with the 1917 and a US Navy marked S&W Victory model. He had shown me it with 1917. His dad was a 1936 Annaoplis grad who was a WWII carrier pilot and ace. The gun was his dad's and he had a personalized holster he carried it in when flying. He gave me both with the stipulation when I was done with them I'd have them destroyed. I told him if I ever decided to be done with them, the 1917 would got to the Texas Ranger's museum and the Victory model would go to the Museum of the Pacific War in Fredricksburg Texas. His dad was also on a championship rifle team at the academy and he had a customized 1903 Springfield that was done by the Marine gunsmiths at Quantico and presented by the secretary of the navy. That had a letter from secnav and a medallion inlaid in the stock. My neighbor wasnt anti that!

On Pat's guns-are these going to be listed on GB or are they in a local store in VA? As much as I'd love to see the guns, I'd really like to get into his library. The last time I talked to him, it was about our love of history and old books. He told me he had over 5000 volumes in storage. I'd love to be able to sit for another chat. Someday...

I'm glad his 1917 is in good hands.

[oregon45]

As soon as I get the upstairs gun room reloading setup organized, I'm going to do some load development for it. I have a couple of grains of Bullseye, and a few cases and projectiles. Doing a bunny-fart load should not be hard, I'll just keep them seperate from the 1911 chow.

I use such a load in my S&W M1917's and 1950 Army's; Hodgdon Trail Boss under an Oregon Trail 205gr Laser-Cast SWC. The pictured target was fired at 10-yards. The load has very little recoil and brass lasts forever.

A great shoulder holster for the 1917 would be an El Paso Saddlery 1942 "Tanker" holster, lined and carved.

https://i.imgur.com/CxhywHs.jpg?1

[Wayne Dobbs]

That gun is beautiful. I have a 1917, US Army marked. A neighbor where I used to live had me over to his house to check it out one day. He was older, and anti-handgun. This was his grandfather's piece, that he carried with Blackjack Pershing during the punitive expeditions against Pancho Villa. After his grandfather's service was over, he joined the Texas Rangers and carried it there. My neighbor wanted to know how to get it destroyed. I begged him not to do it and at least donate it th o a museum due to the historical value. He said he'd think about it. Two days later he knocks on my door and hands me a bag with the 1917 and a US Navy marked S&W Victory model. He had shown me it with 1917. His dad was a 1936 Annaoplis grad who was a WWII carrier pilot and ace. The gun was his dad's and he had a personalized holster he carried it in when flying. He gave me both with the stipulation when I was done with them I'd have them destroyed. I told him if I ever decided to be done with them, the 1917 would got to the Texas Ranger's museum and the Victory model would go to the Museum of the Pacific War in Fredricksburg Texas. His dad was also on a championship rifle team at the academy and he had a customized 1903 Springfield that was done by the Marine gunsmiths at Quantico and presented by the secretary of the navy. That had a letter from secnav and a medallion inlaid in the stock. My neighbor wasnt anti that!

On Pat's guns-are these going to be listed on GB or are they in a local store in VA? As much as I'd love to see the guns, I'd really like to get into his library. The last time I talked to him, it was about our love of history and old books. He told me he had over 5000 volumes in storage. I'd love to be able to sit for another chat. Someday...

I'm glad his 1917 is in good hands.

When you're done with those two revolvers, just pass them to me and I'll destroy them after I'm done!

[SeriousStudent]

As far as holsters.....I d have Alex at American Classic Gunleather do a BAsketweave or floral holster for it. Option two....shoulder rig like Brad Pitts in Fury.

I was pondering that, and briefly mentioned a tanker holster to Wayne.

Back in the early to mid 1980's, I was bobbing gently on a grey cruise liner in the Indian Ocean. There was a Marine Aviator who was either the CO or XO of one of the CH-46 squadrons embarked that had a 1917 complete with lanyard and tanker holster that he wore with his green flying rompers. I was dying to ask him some questions about the pistol, but he was not in a question-answering mood at the time.

"Uh, hey sir, whatcha doing with that cool wheelgu -- SPLASH!"

It's a long freaking swim to Diego Garcia, or actually just about anywhere when you are in the middle of the Indian Ocean. Discretion being the better part of cowardice, I never got a chance to ask him about it, and I never saw that guy again. :(

[SeriousStudent]

This (https://epsaddlery.com/product/1917-holster/) would be the proper holster for it.

I have a lead on a genuine antique one of those. We are currently in negotiations. I am offering whiskey, his spouse is insisting on cash.

Silly woman, trading firewater for gun stuff is an honorable Texas tradition.

[Lester Polfus]

That gun is beautiful. I have a 1917, US Army marked. A neighbor where I used to live had me over to his house to check it out one day. He was older, and anti-handgun. This was his grandfather's piece, that he carried with Blackjack Pershing during the punitive expeditions against Pancho Villa. After his grandfather's service was over, he joined the Texas Rangers and carried it there. My neighbor wanted to know how to get it destroyed. I begged him not to do it and at least donate it th o a museum due to the historical value. He said he'd think about it. Two days later he knocks on my door and hands me a bag with the 1917 and a US Navy marked S&W Victory model. He had shown me it with 1917. His dad was a 1936 Annaoplis grad who was a WWII carrier pilot and ace. The gun was his dad's and he had a personalized holster he carried it in when flying. He gave me both with the stipulation when I was done with them I'd have them destroyed. I told him if I ever decided to be done with them, the 1917 would got to the Texas Ranger's museum and the Victory model would go to the Museum of the Pacific War in Fredricksburg Texas. His dad was also on a championship rifle team at the academy and he had a customized 1903 Springfield that was done by the Marine gunsmiths at Quantico and presented by the secretary of the navy. That had a letter from secnav and a medallion inlaid in the stock. My neighbor wasnt anti that!

On Pat's guns-are these going to be listed on GB or are they in a local store in VA? As much as I'd love to see the guns, I'd really like to get into his library. The last time I talked to him, it was about our love of history and old books. He told me he had over 5000 volumes in storage. I'd love to be able to sit for another chat. Someday...

I'm glad his 1917 is in good hands.

Hopefully permissible thread drift: My great-grandfather rode on that the Pershing Punitive Expedition. It was a pretty big operation, but I still wonder if they knew each other.

[HCM]

That gun is beautiful. I have a 1917, US Army marked. A neighbor where I used to live had me over to his house to check it out one day. He was older, and anti-handgun. This was his grandfather's piece, that he carried with Blackjack Pershing during the punitive expeditions against Pancho Villa. After his grandfather's service was over, he joined the Texas Rangers and carried it there. My neighbor wanted to know how to get it destroyed. I begged him not to do it and at least donate it th o a museum due to the historical value. He said he'd think about it. Two days later he knocks on my door and hands me a bag with the 1917 and a US Navy marked S&W Victory model. He had shown me it with 1917. His dad was a 1936 Annaoplis grad who was a WWII carrier pilot and ace. The gun was his dad's and he had a personalized holster he carried it in when flying. He gave me both with the stipulation when I was done with them I'd have them destroyed. I told him if I ever decided to be done with them, the 1917 would got to the Texas Ranger's museum and the Victory model would go to the Museum of the Pacific War in Fredricksburg Texas. His dad was also on a championship rifle team at the academy and he had a customized 1903 Springfield that was done by the Marine gunsmiths at Quantico and presented by the secretary of the navy. That had a letter from secnav and a medallion inlaid in the stock. My neighbor wasnt anti that!

On Pat's guns-are these going to be listed on GB or are they in a local store in VA? As much as I'd love to see the guns, I'd really like to get into his library. The last time I talked to him, it was about our love of history and old books. He told me he had over 5000 volumes in storage. I'd love to be able to sit for another chat. Someday...

I'm glad his 1917 is in good hands.

If you scroll through the linked FB feed you’ll find several of Pat’s guns. My understanding is they will be tricking out for a while.

[TiroFijo]

I use such a load in my S&W M1917's and 1950 Army's; Hodgdon Trail Boss under an Oregon Trail 205gr Laser-Cast SWC. The pictured target was fired at 10-yards. The load has very little recoil and brass lasts forever.

A great shoulder holster for the 1917 would be an El Paso Saddlery 1942 "Tanker" holster, lined and carved.

https://i.imgur.com/CxhywHs.jpg?1

Oregon, where did you get those grips?

[oregon45]

Oregon, where did you get those grips?

I found them on the S&W forum classifieds several years ago, they appear to have been hand-made from some type of Micarta or other phenolic resin.

[Lex Luthier]

I found them on the S&W forum classifieds several years ago, they appear to have been hand-made from some type of Micarta or other phenolic resin.

I am with TiroFijo on these- they are really attractive against the blued metal finish.