Straw buyer sentenced today to 18 months in prison for straw purchasing 35 firearms

[Wendell]

According to court documents, Juan Zimmerman, 26, used a fraudulently obtained Virginia identification card to purchase 35 firearms from various Federal Firearms Licensees throughout the Eastern District of Virginia between June and August 2018. After purchasing the firearms, Zimmerman transferred the firearms to others, including his cousin, who trafficked the firearms across state lines to Maryland and Washington, D.C. to other individuals. Four of the firearms Zimmerman illegally purchased have been recovered by law enforcement after being used in a number of violent crimes, including at least one homicide and one domestic violence shooting.
https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/man-sentenced-prison-straw-purchasing-35-firearms

[mtnbkr]

A bit of a click-baity title. I doubt I'm the only one who thought this was about our other favorite Zimmerman.

As for the actual crime, this is not going to help VA's current 2nd Amendment battles even though the existing laws worked and the guy is being punished for his crimes. Also worth noting, that he used ID means he bought them through dealers and followed the existing process that would NOT be changed via the existing laws except possibly the 1-handgun-a-month law (if he bought more than one a month).

Again, not good for us. :(

Chris

[hufnagel]

yea... don't do click bait titles. we're (a better community) than that.

[hufnagel]

A bit of a click-baity title. I doubt I'm the only one who thought this was about our other favorite Zimmerman.

As for the actual crime, this is not going to help VA's current 2nd Amendment battles even though the existing laws worked and the guy is being punished for his crimes. Also worth noting, that he used ID means he bought them through dealers and followed the existing process that would NOT be changed via the existing laws except possibly the 1-handgun-a-month law (if he bought more than one a month).

Again, not good for us. :(

Chris

Depending on how the fraudulently obtained ID was manufactured, 1GAM wouldn't stop him or others either, as you just make more IDs.
Of course I still don't understand why criminals are going through the hassle of buying guns, considering the other alternatives.

[Totem Polar]

When posting Zimmerman updates, be sure you’ve got the right juan...

[mtnbkr]

Depending on how the fraudulently obtained ID was manufactured, 1GAM wouldn't stop him or others either, as you just make more IDs.
Of course I still don't understand why criminals are going through the hassle of buying guns, considering the other alternatives.

I agree completely. However, TPTB won't agree. They'll use it as proof we need "moar lawz!". :rolleyes:

Chris

[LittleLebowski]

yea... don't do click bait titles. we're (a better community) than that.

Agreed, I fixed the title.

[Stephanie B]

Two weeks in the pen for each gun illegally purchased? Sounds kind of light.

Still more time than the ATF guys did for Operation Fast & Furious.

[EricG]

18 months? That's it, huh?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Stephanie B]

Two weeks in the pen for each gun illegally purchased? Sounds kind of light.

Still more time than the ATF guys did for Operation Fast & Furious.

AARGH. Fixed it.

[Stephanie B]

18 months? That's it, huh?

And the ATF is bragging about it, too....

[vcdgrips]

According to the publicly available Electronic Case Filing System for the Eastern District of VA, the advisory Sentencing Guidelines which are determined by the U.S. Probation and Parole Office, were 41 to 51 months. The United States recommended a sentence of 48 months.

[TC215]

According to the publicly available Electronic Case Filing System for the Eastern District of VA, the advisory Sentencing Guidelines which are determined by the U.S. Probation and Parole Office, were 41 to 51 months. The United States recommended a sentence of 48 months.

Don’t go and bring facts into this.

[HCM]

A bit of a click-baity title. I doubt I'm the only one who thought this was about our other favorite Zimmerman.

As for the actual crime, this is not going to help VA's current 2nd Amendment battles even though the existing laws worked and the guy is being punished for his crimes. Also worth noting, that he used ID means he bought them through dealers and followed the existing process that would NOT be changed via the existing laws except possibly the 1-handgun-a-month law (if he bought more than one a month).

Again, not good for us. :(

Chris

I look at it in exactly the opposite way. The fact that they are prosecuting this dude proves that existing laws work and we don’t need new ones, we just need to enforce the ones we already have.

People get all emotionally wrapped up in what straw purchases are and aren’t. Essentially a straw purchase is a criminal conspiracy and the legal purchase of guns in furtherance of a criminal conspiracy is no different than any other otherwise legal act taken in furtherance of a criminal conspiracy.

VCD grips could likely break it down better than I.

Federal prosecution resources are limited and in my experience prosecuting straw purchases and “lie and try “cases has been an uphill battle.

[HCM]

And the ATF is bragging about it, too....

When the judge decides to depart downward from 48 months to 18 months there’s not much else you can do but try and publicize the fact you got a conviction at all to discourage others. 18 months might not discourage people in the criminal lifestyle but by definition most straw purchasers have a clean record and 18 months is nothing to sneeze at if you are a square Citizen.

[Stephanie B]

When the judge decides to depart downward from 48 months to 18 months there’s not much else you can do but try and publicize the fact you got a conviction at all to discourage others. 18 months might not discourage people in the criminal lifestyle but by definition most straw purchasers have a clean record and 18 months is nothing to sneeze at if you are a square Citizen.

I suspect that someone who is straw-buying over 30 guns isn't Mr. Law-Abiding Citizen What Got Tripped Up By Filling Out the 4473 Wrong.

In this instance, it would seem as though the defense attorney earned the retainer.

[HCM]

I suspect that someone who is straw-buying over 30 guns isn't Mr. Law-Abiding Citizen What Got Tripped Up By Filling Out the 4473 Wrong.

In this instance, it would seem as though the defense attorney earned the retainer.

They didn’t get “tripped up” they know what they are doing but they are normally first offenders. Some are just greedy but often they are manipulated by the crooks they are buying guns for.

[TAZ]

They didn’t get “tripped up” they know what they are doing but they are normally first offenders. Some are just greedy but often they are manipulated by the crooks they are buying guns for.

This. these guys are just like the little gang banger wannabes who get roped into doing stupid stuff by the bigger fish. Yes, they know full well what they are doing, but this cold be his first rodeo. The question is why isn't he on the hook for the felonies committed with the guns he transferred to criminals. If you drive a car for the robbery crew and they kill someone you're still on the hook for the murder no? If so then why cant this guy be thrown under the bus for the felonies committed with the guns he illegally transferred to criminals? Apparently the state has shown that the knowingly transferred guns to folks who shouldn't have them..

18 months is pathetic. Shows just how tough on "gun crimes" some people are...

[HCM]

This. these guys are just like the little gang banger wannabes who get roped into doing stupid stuff by the bigger fish. Yes, they know full well what they are doing, but this cold be his first rodeo. The question is why isn't he on the hook for the felonies committed with the guns he transferred to criminals. If you drive a car for the robbery crew and they kill someone you're still on the hook for the murder no? If so then why cant this guy be thrown under the bus for the felonies committed with the guns he illegally transferred to criminals? Apparently the state has shown that the knowingly transferred guns to folks who shouldn't have them..

18 months is pathetic. Shows just how tough on "gun crimes" some people are...

To hold him criminally responsible for the crimes committed with the guns you would have to show they knew about and bought the guns specifically for use in those crimes.

So instead of hey Taz go buy me this gun and will give you some money or hook you up with that girl you like, You would have to prove that I said hey Taz go get me that gun so I could take out the full credit on the next block or hey Taz go get me that gun so I can rob this bank.

There are different types of straw buyers, some are roped in just as you describe, some are carefully groomed and even instructed to get CHL so they don’t have to go through a next check, and some are girlfriend’s baby mamas etc.

[LittleLebowski]

Still more time than the ATF guys did for Operation Fast & Furious.

I am a fan of your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[mtnbkr]

I look at it in exactly the opposite way. The fact that they are prosecuting this dude proves that existing laws work and we don’t need new ones, we just need to enforce the ones we already have.

People get all emotionally wrapped up in what straw purchases are and aren’t. Essentially a straw purchase is a criminal conspiracy and the legal purchase of guns in furtherance of a criminal conspiracy is no different than any other otherwise legal act taken in furtherance of a criminal conspiracy.

VCD grips could likely break it down better than I.

Federal prosecution resources are limited and in my experience prosecuting straw purchases and “lie and try “cases has been an uphill battle.

I agree that the existing laws worked as evidenced by the guy being prosecuted. My point was that the Bloomberg Drones will use the mere existence of the crime as evidence we need more laws, not evidence that what we have works already.

That this happened in VA is the risk in our already tenuous legal standing at the moment.

Chris

[whomever]

Showing my woeful ignorance of how crime works:

How do states that have one-gun-a-month laws catch a straw buyer who just goes to multiple stores? Do they keep a database and check it, or are they only enforced after the fact when they catch the buyer by other means?


And a related question, with background checks being all the rage: how available are fake IDs that would likely pass inspection at an FFL? I've heard or bars with a wall of confiscated IDs. On one hand that implies the fakes are detectable; on the other it implies a lot of people are using them, and people wouldn't do that unless the probability of success was fairly good. But background checks aren't going to work all that well if every lowlife can just get a fake DL that says he is Mike Bloomberg.

[mtnbkr]

Showing my woeful ignorance of how crime works:

How do states that have one-gun-a-month laws catch a straw buyer who just goes to multiple stores? Do they keep a database and check it, or are they only enforced after the fact when they catch the buyer by other means?

Back when VA had a one-handgun-a-month law, I think it was tracked at the State Police level. However, there was at least one, maybe two legal workarounds for the law (permission from SP and CCW permits being the two I recall).



And a related question, with background checks being all the rage: how available are fake IDs that would likely pass inspection at an FFL? I've heard or bars with a wall of confiscated IDs. On one hand that implies the fakes are detectable; on the other it implies a lot of people are using them, and people wouldn't do that unless the probability of success was fairly good. But background checks aren't going to work all that well if every lowlife can just get a fake DL that says he is Mike Bloomberg.

No clue. You need two IDs, so both would have to pass muster.

Chris