RFI: K Frame Stocks for High-Volume Shooting

[JRV]

Ran a match over the weekend with a new Model 19-9 Classic. The round count was around 200, and I was shooting American Eagle 158gr LRN (fairly weak stuff).

I ran into two issues:

(1) The speedloader cut-out in the factory target stocks was fine enough for loading (using Comp-IIIs), but the relief cutout area was so thick that a single piece of brass would get caught between the cylinder and the stock every reload regardless of how vertical the muzzle was. Had to switch to right hand ejection by the second stage, which added time and motion.

(2) the factory stocks come up very high behind the trigger guard. By the third stage, the rear of the trigger guard had impacted my middle finger so many times that I was bleeding for the rest of the match. I was surprised; that ammo is not even rated for 120,000 power factor. I prefer to not bleed on blued steel to the extent avoidable.

I’m looking at options that provide more ejection clearance and occupy more space behind the trigger guard. It looks like the Miculek stock pattern and various other models from Hogue fit the bill, but I am also interested in options that might be available on the secondary market (used/older models of stocks) or from smaller makers than Altamont or Hogue. I’m not crazy about rubber or finger grooves, but I will consider all options.

I’d like to spend under $150, and I really don’t want to wait through most of the season for a pair. Any thought or suggestions?

[revchuck38]

I've got Spegels on all of mine, but they don't sound like what you want, especially with the wait part.

Ahrends grips are a possibility. Brownell's (https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/grip-parts/grips/s-w-revolver-exotic-wood-grips-prod22451.aspx) shows them as out of stock, but you can see what they look like.

Hogues are available without finger grooves (https://www.hogueinc.com/k-or-l-sq-butt-goncalo-no-finger-groove). You could also get a set of the rubber or nylon ones and have at it with a belt sander to achieve the contour you want.

[Inspector71]

My go to grips:https://www.lymanproducts.com/brands/pachmayr

[LtDave]

You might like VZ Grips Tactical model. They are very well suited to smaller sized hands. The Miculek Hogues are nice too.

49103

[OlongJohnson]

Nothing bigger/better than these, commonly referred to as the "X frame grip":

https://www.hogueinc.com/handgun-grips/smith-wesson/xzframe/s-w-k-l-n-x-z-frame-round-butt-rubber-conversion-monogrip-black

S&W made the grip part of the frame on the biggest guns the same as the K&L frame. They don't really fit the N-frame perfectly, but you can stretch them on and they work OK.

If you try to trim off the finger grooves, you'll run into harder plastic fairly quickly.

RE speed loader clearance, I've had good luck modifying rubber grips by shaving them with a razor blade and then blending the contours with 220-grit sandpaper. Some people say to put it in the freezer so it's harder, but I haven't needed to do that on the rubber grips I've modded.

The "no finger groove" Hogue grip for the GP100 is pretty much the same in side profile, just without finger grooves. Kinda wish they'd make that for N frames.

[Alpha Sierra]

Is the 19 Classic a square butt?

After trying Hogue finger groove rubbers, VZ Grips tactical diamonds, Ahrends tacticals with and without finger grooves, Altamont Bateleurs, Pachmayr Grippers (covered backstrap) and Pachmayr Gripper Professionals (open backstrap), the absolute best K frame square butt grip for me is the Gripper Professional. By a mile. Second choice would be the Ahrends tacticals with finger grooves.

If it's a round butt, get a set of Ahrends round butt finger groove tacticals and don't look back. Hogues are a distant second. Nothing else is worth a damn unless you have huuuuge hands in which case the various Pachmayr RB grips might work if they fit the gun (always a crap shoot with new Pachmayr products)
https://www.topgunsupply.com/gun-parts/grips/ahrends-grips/s-w-k-l-frame-grips.html

Other options of which I have no personal experience:
http://www.mcssl.com/store/billdavisenterprises/davis-custom-grip

https://www.eaglegrips.com/29-smith-wesson-grips


I'll never again buy any of the following revolver grips:
VZ: Too damned small. I wear a size 8 glove (so I don't have huge hands) and I barely have anything to hold on to with their square or round butt grips. They are sized for children.

Altamont: Whoever designs their grips has never held a revolver equipped with them and should be pistol whipped with same. Sharp edges everywhere they shouldn't be and a speedloader cut that is anything but.

[BobM]

I went through the police academy with a Security Six with the square butt Pachmayr Presentation grips. We were shooting Blazer 158 RNL and I found the combo pretty comfortable for a week or so of shooting every day.

[Alpha Sierra]

The problem with most Pachmayr grips is that they're are either too large or too small for people with medium sized hands.

If you have average sized hands, all of their grips with the covered backstrap significantly increase reach to the trigger and all of their open backstrap grips (with the exception of the Gripper Professional) are too small.

The Gripper Professional is in a class of its own, but it's only made for S&W square butt K/L/X frames and for some Colts.

[JRV]

I have tried both Pachmayr Grippers and Presentation stocks with no luck. I have wide palms but short fingers, so trigger reach is an issue with covered backstraps. I’m seeing a lot of other suggestions that look like they are worth checking out.

Oh, and the 19-9 is a round butt.

I’m pretty sure Altamont made the OEM square-butt conversion target stocks, because they have all the classic Altamont features:

- very wide with no contour
- gaps between the backstrap steel-to-wood fit
- inexplicable sharp edges
- poor fit to the point I had to make shims to keep the stocks from rotating around the base pin at the bottom of the grip frame under recoil
- very pretty, well-matched wood

[Alpha Sierra]

I have tried both Pachmayr Grippers and Presentation stocks with no luck. I have wide palms but short fingers, so trigger reach is an issue with covered backstraps. I’m seeing a lot of other suggestions that look like they are worth checking out.

Oh, and the 19-9 is a round butt.

I’m pretty sure Altamont made the OEM square-butt conversion target stocks, because they have all the classic Altamont features:

- very wide with no contour
- gaps between the backstrap steel-to-wood fit
- inexplicable sharp edges
- poor fit to the point I had to make shims to keep the stocks from rotating around the base pin at the bottom of the grip frame under recoil
- very pretty, well-matched wood

Yep, there's no good answer from Pachmayr for round butts and normal hands.

Your complaints about Altamont are about the same as mine. They are junk. Pretty junk, but still junk.

Just get these: https://www.topgunsupply.com/ahrends-s-w-k-l-frame-rd-butt-moradillo-finger-groove-oiled.html

If you don't like them (and I doubt that), they are easy to resell.

If those turn out to be slightly too big for you, then the VZs will likely work. My fingers are long enough that VZs just need more meat to work for me.

[mtnbkr]

Yep, there's no good answer from Pachmayr for round butts and normal hands.

Your complaints about Altamont are about the same as mine. They are junk. Pretty junk, but still junk.

Just get these: https://www.topgunsupply.com/ahrends-s-w-k-l-frame-rd-butt-moradillo-finger-groove-oiled.html

If you don't like them (and I doubt that), they are easy to resell.

If those turn out to be slightly too big for you, then the VZs will likely work. My fingers are long enough that VZs just need more meat to work for me.

Ahrends are good, I have 4 sets on my K-frames, but you better buy them now if you want any as they have filed for bankruptcy. Kim Ahrends has posted on his webpage he is not taking any new orders.

Chris

[jtcarm]

The Spegel-designed Uncle Mikes grips that used to ship on factory guns are excellent for long range sessions.

The problem with most grips that don't cover the backstrap is that they nearly always leave some metal exposed at the top rear corner of the grip frame, and the wood is too thin, which delivers a sharp rap ro the web of your hand.

The UMs cover the backstrap, but are thin enough in that area as to not cause a problem for stubby fingers like mine.

I burn 200-300 rounds in 2 hours from a 3"model 64 with no discomfort.

You can find them Ebay for 40-50 bucks.

[Alpha Sierra]

The Spegel-designed Uncle Mikes grips that used to ship on factory guns are excellent for long range sessions.

The problem with most grips that don't cover the backstrap is that they nearly always leave some metal exposed at the top rear corner of the grip frame, and the wood is too thin, which delivers a sharp rap ro the web of your hand.

Someone needs to assume the IP and tooling for the old Uncle Mikes and get them to market again.

Of all the exposed backstrap grips I've used, Ahrends are by far the best in attenuating recoil.

[Inspector71]

I went through the police academy with a Security Six with the square butt Pachmayr Presentation grips. We were shooting Blazer 158 RNL and I found the combo pretty comfortable for a week or so of shooting every day.

Sounds similar to my story. Really, really wanted a 4 inch S&W model 19 back in those days, but they were as scarce as hen’s teeth in the San Antonio gun shops that I visited at that time. So, I “settled” on a new 4 inch Ruger Security-Six, and before leaving the store I had the clerk put on the Packy Presentation grips. Long story short, that combination was an excellent choice for the budding LE Officer. Served me well.

[jtcarm]

Of all the exposed backstrap grips I've used, Ahrends are by far the best in attenuating recoil.

I'll second that, at least so far as non-factory, semi-mass-produced grips.

At least some of the 325PDs left the factory with Ahrends. I had one for a while and those were the most confortable N-frame grips I've ever used. I think they're the Ahrends classic bananna. I just ordered a set off of Ebay.

The 325 was still too much of a handfull, but now kind of wish I'd kept it for a night stand gun.

One thing haven't seen mentiined is shooting rechnique. Getting a high, tight grip, with the web of your hand just over the backstrap will give you some relief.

[Alpha Sierra]

I'll second that, at least so far as non-factory, semi-mass-produced grips.

At least some of the 325PDs left the factory with Ahrends. I had one for a while and those were the most confortable N-frame grips I've ever used. I think they're the Ahrends classic bananna. I just ordered a set off of Ebay.

S&W used Ahrends round butt tacticals with finger grooves. The classic bananas are much slimmer and I never liked them. They have a sharp ridge on the edge of the speedloader cut that irritated the shit out of me.

Kim sent me a few samples when he was coming out with them for feedback. Sucks that he's closing up shop.

If you want what came with the 325, you want these: https://www.topgunsupply.com/ahrends-s-w-n-frame-rd-butt-moradillo-finger-groove.html if you can find any for sale.

[JRV]

Re: Ahrends

The business Ch. 7 case closed about five months ago per PACER (filed back in May ‘19), so, despite what the Ahrends website posted over the weekend, the bank is almost certainly not manufacturing stocks at this point. Someone might have purchased the IP, CNC equipment, and inventory, but I am not spending the money on PACER to view the Ch. 7 Trustee’s final report.

(If I am wrong, then this might be the first time in history that a bank, or any secured creditor, hired CNC operators or other laborers to operate collateral equipment in lieu of seeking its liquidation and payment from proceeds. I represent Ch. 7 trustees at our firm, so I think Mr. Ahrends simply might not have a clear idea of what happened, which is completely normal.)

The good news is eBay sellers like gripseller have tons of stocks in inventory for basically retail prices, so if you want a set (or several to sell off in a few years when there are no more new, genuine Ahrends stocks on the market), they’re still out there for the time being. I don’t think I’ll go that route for the immediate future. No interest in grips for which replacements are guaranteed to become unobtainable, and squatting on inventory to make a buck in a few years isn’t my bag.

[03RN]

I think im in the same boat. So far the best ive found are pachymer compacs(covered backstrap) and UMs. The compacs are great for low volume shooting magnums or uspsa. I find that shooting a lot of magnums my hands/forearms gets tired because theyre so big. I have a 600lbs deadlift and spent a decade hauling lobster posts so its not a grip strength issue.

The uncle mikes are comfortable with higher round count magnums. Probably the best compromise. Last time i shot with them i felt my accuracy was off so i switched back to the pachymers but then switched back. Im currently using the uncle mikes.

I loved my vzs except they are not fit very well and cause bloody hands with moderate magnum use. I think they drew blood at around 80rds last time. They feel great and my favorite to conceal.

I would really like to try some ahrends but just feel that grips are draining me right now. If i could shoot 200rds of magnums and feel ok id buy a set no problem.

I bought a set of thai wood grips that covered the back strap that im currently refinishing. They look nice and feel ok but a think they're tapered to much and are hitting the hand with a smaller surface area if that makes sense. Speaking of, i need to go put some linseed oil on them.

[jtcarm]

S&W used Ahrends round butt tacticals with finger grooves. The classic bananas are much slimmer and I never liked them. They have a sharp ridge on the edge of the speedloader cut that irritated the shit out of me.

Kim sent me a few samples when he was coming out with them for feedback. Sucks that he's closing up shop.

If you want what came with the 325, you want these: https://www.topgunsupply.com/ahrends-s-w-n-frame-rd-butt-moradillo-finger-groove.html if you can find any for sale.

I can't swear to the model, but they definitely did not have have finger grooves.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/Listings/ItemDescriptionPage.aspx?ListingID=988211929&ShowLogin=2

[UNK]

What about herretts? They have custom sizing have you send a hand tracing in. No idea on current waits but last time i talked to them it was weeks.

http://www.herrettstocks.com/

[JRV]

What about herretts? They have custom sizing have you send a hand tracing in. No idea on current waits but last time i talked to them it was weeks.

http://www.herrettstocks.com/

I have definitely been checking out Herretts... the wait is a bit of a turnoff, but I hear the Ropers and Jordans (which I would need with the exposed backstrap) are top-notch.

Do you have any experience with them?

[mtnbkr]

I have definitely been checking out Herretts... the wait is a bit of a turnoff, but I hear the Ropers and Jordans (which I would need with the exposed backstrap) are top-notch.

Do you have any experience with them?

I bought a set of Jordans for my Redhawk years ago. They were kind of plain looking, but the price was right for what was essentially custom grips. I ended up selling them because they didn't give me the control I needed. To be fair, my hands aren't that big, something that Jordans are really suited for. I've only found one set of grips that worked for that gun and my hand and that was a set of Nill grips (found them on deep discount via ebay, they're normally quite expensive).

If I had challenging grip issues with my other guns, I'd definitely give Herrett another try.

Chris

[UNK]

I have definitely been checking out Herretts... the wait is a bit of a turnoff, but I hear the Ropers and Jordans (which I would need with the exposed backstrap) are top-notch.

Do you have any experience with them?

No Sorry I ended up with altamonts. I just wanted a longer trigger reach enclosed backstrap for a jframe.

[4given]

Nothing bigger/better than these, commonly referred to as the "X frame grip":

https://www.hogueinc.com/handgun-grips/smith-wesson/xzframe/s-w-k-l-n-x-z-frame-round-butt-rubber-conversion-monogrip-black

S&W made the grip part of the frame on the biggest guns the same as the K&L frame. They don't really fit the N-frame perfectly, but you can stretch them on and they work OK.

If you try to trim off the finger grooves, you'll run into harder plastic fairly quickly.

RE speed loader clearance, I've had good luck modifying rubber grips by shaving them with a razor blade and then blending the contours with 220-grit sandpaper. Some people say to put it in the freezer so it's harder, but I haven't needed to do that on the rubber grips I've modded.

The "no finger groove" Hogue grip for the GP100 is pretty much the same in side profile, just without finger grooves. Kinda wish they'd make that for N frames.

Looks like they don't make these for the square butt K frame. :(

[Alpha Sierra]

I can't swear to the model, but they definitely did not have have finger grooves.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/Listings/ItemDescriptionPage.aspx?ListingID=988211929&ShowLogin=2

You're right. Memory's off. Nevertheless, my point is still the same. They are Ahrends tactical RB grips, not the later banana grips.

[Alpha Sierra]

Re: Ahrends

No interest in grips for which replacements are guaranteed to become unobtainable, and squatting on inventory to make a buck in a few years isn’t my bag.

Umm.....not sure why you would think hardwood grips would be wear items. There's no reason on earth you will need replacements.

But do what you will......

[JRV]

Umm.....not sure why you would think hardwood grips would be wear items. There's no reason on earth you will need replacements.

But do what you will......

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I’ve broken sturdier things than wooden stocks. Knowing that Ahrends are basically a fixed-quantity means I don’t trust myself with them.

[jtcarm]

You're right. Memory's off. Nevertheless, my point is still the same. They are Ahrends tactical RB grips, not the later banana grips.

Yes, you're right. The damn bannanas arrived today and they're not what were on the 325.

They look good on my 625, but are not as ergonomic as the JMs I've been running on it.

The gun is actually a PC that came with the candy canes. I didn't even try shooting with that abomination before switching to JMs.

The JMs were a big improvement, but I don't like them as much as on K-frames. They need more meat in the palms.

The search continues.

Back to Flea Bay.

[HCM]

I have definitely been checking out Herretts... the wait is a bit of a turnoff, but I hear the Ropers and Jordans (which I would need with the exposed backstrap) are top-notch.

Do you have any experience with them?

I’ve had very good results with the Herrett’s Shooting Star grips, and I say that as someone who is not really a big fan of most wood grips.

They have an expose backstrap but can be made to order.

Cheap, fast, good, pick two...