Good General Purpose .357 Magnum load?

[MandoWookie]

Having now loaded a grand total of about 250 rounds of .38 special wadcutters, and armed with both the Lee & Lyman reloading manuals, I now seem to be bitten by the bug, and I am looking for excuses to load for more of the calibers in my arsenal. Since I already have the dies, .357 seems like the next logical step.

So, in that vein, what would be peoples recommendation for a good general purpose load for a 4in Security Six? In the interest of standardization, is it possible to use Bullseye in any worthwhile load, or am I going to need to get another powder? If so what? I would eventually like to load .45 ACP as well, so being able to stock one type of powder that would work for light .38 dewc, .357 Mag, and .45 would be nice.

In terms of projectile, I was looking mainly at something like 158gr XTP, with maybe the Berry's 158gr plated TC as a range round. But I don't know how well this world work in reality.

[Lester Polfus]

I carry American Eagle 158 grain JSP in my 4" GP100 for deer, black bear, cougars, assholes, and plinking at rocks at ridiculous distances.

My practice round has been 10.2 grains of Blue Dot under a Missouri Bullet CO 158 grain coated LSWC. I try to remember to put those in when plinking at rocks too.

I just burned up all my Blue Dot, and it was a good riddance, as it was filthy. Right now I'm going to use up a bunch of Longshot that is left over from my 10mm experiments, and will then standardize on 2400.

[Lester Polfus]

Oh and regarding the powder...

You're not going to make magnum level loads with Bullseye, at least not more than once.

I'm going to standardize on one medium burn rate powder, probably CFE pistol for 9mm and .38 Special loads, and 2400 for the mag-a-nums..

[03RN]

What are youre needs? Animal SD, hunting, human SD?

https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/-38-357-swc-wn-158-gr-per-800-1.html

Over 13.5gr 2400

If i could only load one load for the rest of my life that would be it.

[MandoWookie]

What are youre needs? Animal SD, hunting, human SD?

https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/-38-357-swc-wn-158-gr-per-800-1.html

Over 13.5gr 2400

If i could only load one load for the rest of my life that would be it.

In reference to needs? Yes. Though pondering on it more, human SD is largely incidental, and if that was a priority it would be wiser to focus on duplicating a known good factory load for practice, and buy the factory for carry. That being said, main purpose is just to load something that is manageable but still in magnum territory, that is pushing a bullet that will perform within its envelope when it hits it target.
Great thing about those hardcast 158s is that they will do the same thing no matter how fast you throw them. As I understand it. So point in favor.

So is 2400 the general consensus on powder for .357 Magnum? I know that bullseye will work for what I want in .45 ACP and .38 Special. Figured if I wanted magnum performance I was going to have to get magnum powder, just have to ensure I keep things segregated.

[revchuck38]

You're going to get a lot of divergent opinions on this one. :)

Do you need an expanding bullet? If so, the XTP is a good one. If not, a traditional LSWC is hard to beat. I've used .38 and 9x19 bullets from Missouri Bullet and have been happy with them; the 158-grain coated LSWC from them would be a good choice.

2400 is an excellent powder for full-power loads from a 4". That said, if you don't need balls-to-the-wall loads, you can get to 90% of full-power loads with a medium-speed powder like Unique, CFE Pistol or BE-86, and get there with less recoil and blast. 1100 fps with a 158 LSWC is nothing to sneeze at, and that's what I get with 6.8 grains of Unique.

Try both directions and see which you prefer.

[03RN]

I get really good results with 7gr unique under that bullets as well. It just does not burn as clean as 2400 when using lead and isnt as efficient in my rifles.

Ive found unique to be very versatile with a range of bullets from 130gr jsp, 140gr xtp, 158gr hardcast, etc.

[diananike]

A mid range 125gr load (around 1350fps) would be a good controllable option.
I use 2400 for mine. 16.6gr And either XTPs or Remington SJHPs
That’s the great thing about reloading it lets you custom load exactly what you want

[03RN]

A mid range 125gr load (around 1350fps) would be a good controllable option.
I use 2400 for mine. 16.6gr And either XTPs or Remington SJHPs
That’s the great thing about reloading it lets you custom load exactly what you want

Precision delta has a 130gr jsp that is 10cpr. Cheapest jacketed bullet i could find. I use 9gr unique for it and the 140gr xtp.

[JTMcC]

My take is that it's hard to get more "general purpose" in .357 (or .44 RM) than a XTP, 158 in .357 and 240or 300 in .44 for me.
You've covered a lot of bases with that bullet choice.

[MandoWookie]

Well perusing both the Lyman & Lee data, the Lee bizarrely has no listing for 2400 in .357 at all. The Lyman shows a max load of 14.9gr under the 158 XTP doing 1280 fps out of a 4in barrel. Unique is in both, max 7.7gr for 1940 fps barrel length not listed, Lyman 8.3gr at 1185 fps. Lyman list the pressure for 2400 & unique as 41,800 and 38,300 C.U.P. respectively. Lee doesn't list pressure at all for its Unique load. And I'm noticing, uses both C.U.P. and PSI for different loads in the same caliber, which is very confusing and would seem to make it difficult to do apples to apples comparisons with different loads.

Does any of this sound workable? Do those numbers match up to y'all experiences? The disparities confound me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fdhvg1mblQ
https://youtu.be/qTa4ySTzC6s

[03RN]

Google "the complete .357 reloading manual"

Download the pdf

[Johnny Walker]

What are youre needs? Animal SD, hunting, human SD?

https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/-38-357-swc-wn-158-gr-per-800-1.html

Over 13.5gr 2400

If i could only load one load for the rest of my life that would be it.

What O3RN said above or this bullet http://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=6049007

[MandoWookie]

What O3RN said above or this bullet http://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=6049007

Ooohh. What is the velocity window for those? I'm guessing it must be relatively low if its softer lead.

[WDR]

My take is that it's hard to get more "general purpose" in .357 (or .44 RM) than a XTP, 158 in .357 and 240or 300 in .44 for me.
You've covered a lot of bases with that bullet choice.

I was able to snag a few boxes of 158gr XTP's on clearance when Wal-Mart started getting out of the ammo and reloading business. I agree that it is probably a good compromise "do it all" bullet for most .357 purposes. It's probably not the ideal self defense bullet, with it likely penetrating a lot deeper than is ideal. That extra bit of penetration probably gives it a bit of an edge as a "woods" carry load. So, compromise, and one I can live with. I plan to eventually get a .357 levergun, and the 158's don't blow up as bad as the lighter 125's can from the longer barrels.

13.5 grains of 2400 and a 158 XTP seems to work well in my 3" Model 60, and I was getting good expansion in water tests at that charge weight. 14.5 grains was getting into the "sporty" end of the range in that light gun.

If woods/desert bumming with bears and cougars isn't on your itinerary, a 125gr bullet (XTP?) at modest magnum velocities might be more your style.

[Spartan1980]

In reference to needs? Yes. Though pondering on it more, human SD is largely incidental, and if that was a priority it would be wiser to focus on duplicating a known good factory load for practice, and buy the factory for carry. That being said, main purpose is just to load something that is manageable but still in magnum territory, that is pushing a bullet that will perform within its envelope when it hits it target.
Great thing about those hardcast 158s is that they will do the same thing no matter how fast you throw them. As I understand it. So point in favor.

So is 2400 the general consensus on powder for .357 Magnum? I know that bullseye will work for what I want in .45 ACP and .38 Special. Figured if I wanted magnum performance I was going to have to get magnum powder, just have to ensure I keep things segregated.

Take a hard look at Alliant BE86. It'll run from flat mild to completely wild. Super versatile powder that one.

If you want the absolute most magnabomb load possible (ETA: with heavy bullets like 158) you want VV N110, but it's not bad at all on flash and the noise will be less than you'd expect for the top end velocity of the caliber. But the BE86 could serve as a single powder for all handgun calibers for almost all shooters. It's that good.

[Borderland]

I loaded a ton of 357 mag with 2400 when I had a 77/357. It isn't a versatile powder for much of anything except for 357 and 44 mag. You have some good advice already on powders so I won't go into that. Generally it depends on what the use of the load will be. I load 357 with American Select to plink with but it has the character of a 38 spl. load which is what I want. I'm not recommending that powder, just my solution to shooting my model 19's at 38 spl. velocity.

If you decide to buy some XTP bullets hit me up before you do that. I have several weights that I'll never load. I'm shooting coated lead these days. :D

[okie john]

I'm shooting coated lead these days. :D

Powder coated? How’s that going?


Okie John

[Borderland]

Powder coated? How’s that going?


Okie John

I like it for 38 spl and low velocity 357. I try to load those around 800 fps. I'm also using coated for 32 Long. I used to use it for 45 ACP and 9MM but recently went back to FMJ as I find it taper crimps much better with better neck tension.

[Hambo]

Having now loaded a grand total of about 250 rounds of .38 special wadcutters, and armed with both the Lee & Lyman reloading manuals, I now seem to be bitten by the bug, and I am looking for excuses to load for more of the calibers in my arsenal. Since I already have the dies, .357 seems like the next logical step.

So, in that vein, what would be peoples recommendation for a good general purpose load for a 4in Security Six? In the interest of standardization, is it possible to use Bullseye in any worthwhile load, or am I going to need to get another powder? If so what? I would eventually like to load .45 ACP as well, so being able to stock one type of powder that would work for light .38 dewc, .357 Mag, and .45 would be nice.


If you're adamant about one powder: Unique. I don't understand why people want to limit themselves on powder, while storing brass in multiple and bullets in multiple calibers, as well as 2-3 sizes/types of primers. Live it up, my man. One more pound of powder won't break the bank or cause storage problems.

[Borderland]

If you're adamant about one powder: Unique. I don't understand why people want to limit themselves on powder, while storing brass in multiple and bullets in multiple calibers, as well as 2-3 sizes/types of primers. Live it up, my man. One more pound of powder won't break the bank or cause storage problems.

I avoid having a bunch of different powders around. I know that sounds weird but I started reloading metal about the time the last shortage hit and I just can't get that out of my head. Some powders were gone for two years along with primers. I reload for about 6 different cartridges and I find that 3 powders, 2400, American Select and AR Comp will cover the bases for what I shoot. I may try BE-86 when my supply runs low. If I like it I'll switch and buy 8 lbs of it. I buy primers in bulk also. I place an order and my dealer gives me a nice discount.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Ooohh. What is the velocity window for those? I'm guessing it must be relatively low if its softer lead.

Soft doesn't matter as long as it fits the cylinder throats properly and is properly lubed. The commercial bullets cast en mass are just the opposite, having a hard lube and a hard bullet that isn't a proper (snug) fit in the throats, leading to the leading we often see. Keith developed most of his .357 and .44 Mag loads using a 1:30 bullet alloy, which is about a 10 BHN.

[MandoWookie]

If you're adamant about one powder: Unique. I don't understand why people want to limit themselves on powder, while storing brass in multiple and bullets in multiple calibers, as well as 2-3 sizes/types of primers. Live it up, my man. One more pound of powder won't break the bank or cause storage problems.



For me its mostly trying to cut down variables. If one powder will work well enough for what I want to load, just changes in how much I'm setting my measure to throw, it keeps it simpler for me to keep track of at this point. As I start actually loading more things, I will definitely have to expand my selection, but until then I want to stay as K.I.S.S. as I can until I sort out what works best for me. As I am my own quality control, I have to work out procedures for myself to minimize possible problems.

[MandoWookie]

Soft doesn't matter as long as it fits the cylinder throats properly and is properly lubed. The commercial bullets cast en mass are just the opposite, having a hard lube and a hard bullet that isn't a proper (snug) fit in the throats, leading to the leading we often see. Keith developed most of his .357 and .44 Mag loads using a 1:30 bullet alloy, which is about a 10 BHN.

So what would be a good load for that you think? How would it perform at say 1200fps out of a 4in Security Six? Would that be advisable?

[Wayne Dobbs]

1200 is fairly easy to achieve and the Ruger is very strong. But unless you really need that velocity for trajectory flattening, I would step back and enjoy something in the 1000-1100 fps range. With a 158ish SWC (or some kind of good sized meplat bullet), you can use 5.5 WW231/HP38 or 5.0 Bullseye or about 6.0 Unique and enjoy the shooting more. I love the crash and boom of a Magnum every once in a while, but you'll become a better shooter, wrists and elbows will last longer, the gun will last longer and you'll kill just about anything reasonable with to shoot with a revolver graveyard dead with that and good placement. I think that GT Keith HP bullet listed above would be a great field load bullet to try.

[MandoWookie]

1200 is fairly easy to achieve and the Ruger is very strong. But unless you really need that velocity for trajectory flattening, I would step back and enjoy something in the 1000-1100 fps range. With a 158ish SWC (or some kind of good sized meplat bullet), you can use 5.5 WW231/HP38 or 5.0 Bullseye or about 6.0 Unique and enjoy the shooting more. I love the crash and boom of a Magnum every once in a while, but you'll become a better shooter, wrists and elbows will last longer, the gun will last longer and you'll kill just about anything reasonable with to shoot with a revolver graveyard dead with that and good placement. I think that GT Keith HP bullet listed above would be a great field load bullet to try.

You know, you are right. I think I'm working backwards from wanting "crash and boom", and trying to justify that want rather than any practical use that would require it. Loading .38 Special as strictly light wadcutters for the snubby, and Magnum cases with that Keith bullet over bullseye for the Six would basically cover all my bases while keeping things simple. If I want an earth-shattering kaboom, a couple of boxes of factory ammo will satisfy that for awhile.

One question though, would magnum primers be necessary for that 5.0 of bullseye?

[Baldanders]

May I just say this thread is great?

Nothing to add, just digging it.

[Lester Polfus]

You know, you are right. I think I'm working backwards from wanting "crash and boom", and trying to justify that want rather than any practical use that would require it. Loading .38 Special as strictly light wadcutters for the snubby, and Magnum cases with that Keith bullet over bullseye for the Six would basically cover all my bases while keeping things simple. If I want an earth-shattering kaboom, a couple of boxes of factory ammo will satisfy that for awhile.

One question though, would magnum primers be necessary for that 5.0 of bullseye?

Not only would they not be necessary, I think they are contra indicated for a powder that fast.

[MandoWookie]

Not only would they not be necessary, I think they are contra indicated for a powder that fast.

Well that's good to hear. One less thing to stock.

[Baldanders]

Not only would they not be necessary, I think they are contra indicated for a powder that fast.

Why? Not challenging you, just looking to get educated.

[MandoWookie]

Why? Not challenging you, just looking to get educated.

Same here. Checking my Lyman data it indicates a magnum primer for the equivalent load. Then again it states a magnum primer for all .357 Magnum loads....

[Hambo]

Why? Not challenging you, just looking to get educated.

You use magnum primers to ignite large quantities of slow burning powder. If you can light 3gr of Bullseye in a .38 with a standard primer, you can light 5gr in a .357 using the same primer.


Same here. Checking my Lyman data it indicates a magnum primer for the equivalent load. Then again it states a magnum primer for all .357 Magnum loads....

Check the Alliant reloading website for the load you're talking about and their primer recommendation.

[revchuck38]

Not only would they not be necessary, I think they are contra indicated for a powder that fast.


Why? Not challenging you, just looking to get educated.

Magnum primers are used for powders that need a hotter spark to burn more cleanly. The classic example is W296/H110. Most fast powders (Bullseye, Titegroup, Clays, etc.) work fine with standard primers. So do some slower powders; Alliant used standard (CCI 500) primers for their .357 Magnum 2400 data (http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=9&cartridge=28). I'd check across several sources (available online) to see what the preponderance of usage is before deciding.

IME, ball powders in general benefit from magnum primers, even the faster ones like W231/HP-38. I back off on the recommended loads and work up to a specific velocity window, keeping below the recommended max load to make sure the pressures stay reasonable.

[Wayne Dobbs]

One question though, would magnum primers be necessary for that 5.0 of bullseye?

Absolutely not. Bullseye ignites very easily and its pressure curves in actual testing are beautifully consistent.

[Spartan1980]

If you're adamant about one powder: Unique.

And this is why I'm so high on BE86. Unique is well, unique in that it is so versatile. IDK if BE86 will load light rifle calibers like Unique, but in handguns it's fully equivalent to Unique in regards to versatility and it's burn rate is almost identical. Where it wins is that it's much cleaner in lighter loads and it meters great. I also have it on good authority that it's the powder that Federal uses in it's Premium defensive ammo and some match loads too. It's not a new powder, it's been available to the OEMs for years only recently being a canister offering for reloaders.


Magnum primers are used for powders that need a hotter spark to burn more cleanly. The classic example is W296/H110. Most fast powders (Bullseye, Titegroup, Clays, etc.) work fine with standard primers. So do some slower powders; Alliant used standard (CCI 500) primers for their .357 Magnum 2400 data (http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=9&cartridge=28). I'd check across several sources (available online) to see what the preponderance of usage is before deciding.

IME, ball powders in general benefit from magnum primers, even the faster ones like W231/HP-38. I back off on the recommended loads and work up to a specific velocity window, keeping below the recommended max load to make sure the pressures stay reasonable.

Agreed. Generally a magnum primer is ONLY needed with some ball powders and it's not burn rate that dictates it. An example is VV N110. It's actually considered a rifle powder and isn't a ball type powder. It's very slow burning for handguns. VV's data uses standard primers in the heavy magnum loads and it's stated that magnum primers aren't needed.

[WDR]

I don't use Magnum primers with my 2400 loads, and have had no problems. If I was using H110/W296 I might be more inclined to try them. I do have some around, but I have not found a reason to use them yet. Lighter "mid-range" loads using Bullseye/W231/Unique shouldn't need magnum primers. That is not to say that you can't use magnums, but I don't think they are necessary for most powders.

[4given]

One load with one powder? Any 158 grain bullet over Unique. Simple, versatile, proven.

[4given]

Old School Cool! Skeeter Skelton on the .357 Mag:

http://www.darkcanyon.net/MyFriend_The357.htm

[4given]

And this is why I'm so high on BE86. Unique is well, unique in that it is so versatile. IDK if BE86 will load light rifle calibers like Unique, but in handguns it's fully equivalent to Unique in regards to versatility and it's burn rate is almost identical. Where it wins is that it's much cleaner in lighter loads and it meters great. I also have it on good authority that it's the powder that Federal uses in it's Premium defensive ammo and some match loads too. It's not a new powder, it's been available to the OEMs for years only recently being a canister offering for reloaders.



Agreed. Generally a magnum primer is ONLY needed with some ball powders and it's not burn rate that dictates it. An example is VV N110. It's actually considered a rifle powder and isn't a ball type powder. It's very slow burning for handguns. VV's data uses standard primers in the heavy magnum loads and it's stated that magnum primers aren't needed.


I've just stared using BE86 in 10mm and have been impressed so far. Some say it's basically Power Pistol with flash suppressant but I wouldn't know.

[revchuck38]

I've just stared using BE86 in 10mm and have been impressed so far. Some say it's basically Power Pistol with flash suppressant but I wouldn't know.

I've been using it in 9x19, .38 Special and .45 ACP. I'm really pleased with it. No problems making factory-equivalent (or higher) loads with it using Alliant's data and it's far cleaner-burning than Unique.

[4given]

I've been using it in 9x19, .38 Special and .45 ACP. I'm really pleased with it. No problems making factory-equivalent (or higher) loads with it using Alliant's data and it's far cleaner-burning than Unique.

Yeah I’m using it to duplicate the Hornady Custom 180 gr XTP 10mm load

[Baldanders]

Magnum primers are used for powders that need a hotter spark to burn more cleanly. The classic example is W296/H110. Most fast powders (Bullseye, Titegroup, Clays, etc.) work fine with standard primers. So do some slower powders; Alliant used standard (CCI 500) primers for their .357 Magnum 2400 data (http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=9&cartridge=28). I'd check across several sources (available online) to see what the preponderance of usage is before deciding.

IME, ball powders in general benefit from magnum primers, even the faster ones like W231/HP-38. I back off on the recommended loads and work up to a specific velocity window, keeping below the recommended max load to make sure the pressures stay reasonable.

I only use magnum primers when the book calls for them.

I read "contra-indicated" as "hazardous" or "reducing performance," which was a mis-interpretation on my part. Thanks.

Back in the day I used Blue Dot for warmer .357 and .45 ACP, but Lester is the only member here I have ever seen mention it, and he seems to be done with it.

I also used H110, but according the the Speer manual I referred to a lot, it gave very little to no velocity increase in pistols over Blue Dot. The softball-sized fireballs in max .357 loads were fun, though.

I am fine with having different powders around, I am more interested in standardizing bullet weight/types, and that would be 158 grainers for me in .357. Probably 125-135 grains in .38, and 230 (I don't think I've ever loaded any other weight) in .45. I use HP-38 for light/medium loads in .38 and .45.

[Wayne Dobbs]

The softball-sized fireballs in max .357 loads were fun though.

I used a full charge of WW296 (H110 clone) from Speer #9 in .357 Magnum with the 146 Jacketed SWC-HP way back in the mid-70s that I wished produced softball sized fireballs! They were more like a beach ball. I also recall shooting factory .357 Mag ammo during night quals back then and they were simply horrible on flash. When we had WW 145 STHP ammo recommended, it was a sweet spot of superb performance on assholes, nearly non-existent muzzle flash and reasonable controllability. I used it with great satisfaction on a few whitetails from a 4" Model 19, too.

[Johnny Walker]

Ooohh. What is the velocity window for those? I'm guessing it must be relatively low if its softer lead.

Been travelling so I am just getting back to this thread.... I load em to 1080-1100 FPS using 7.5 gr power pistol and CCI 500 primer and a 4" GP100. 11.8 grains 2400, CCI 550 primer will net ya about the same velocity. I think Wayne's comments above are spot on as well.

Invest in a good reloading manual.. the Lyman Cast Bullet manual rocks.

[Johnny Walker]

I've just stared using BE86 in 10mm and have been impressed so far. Some say it's basically Power Pistol with flash suppressant but I wouldn't know.

Good Grief! I LIKE the FLASH~! Makes you feel like you are launching NUKES! :p

[Wayne Dobbs]

Been travelling so I am just getting back to this thread.... I load em to 1080-1100 FPS using 7.5 gr power pistol and CCI 500 primer and a 4" GP100. 11.8 grains 2400, CCI 550 primer will net ya about the same velocity. I think Wayne's comments above are spot on as well.

Invest in a good reloading manual.. the Lyman Cast Bullet manual rocks.

I've been using Power Pistol more lately and find it to be simply excellent. It's like a miracle Unique. It meters beautifully, gives higher velocities at lower pressures than Unique and seems a bit more accurate. It is freakin' loud though! I'm about to explore it in some .38 Special full power, full bullet weight loads to see what I get. I do know that 8.0 PP with a 250 Keith in .44 Special (let's call it the Brian Pearce load) is perfect.

[03RN]

I used a full charge of WW296 (H110 clone) from Speer #9 in .357 Magnum with the 146 Jacketed SWC-HP way back in the mid-70s that I wished produced softball sized fireballs! They were more like a beach ball. I also recall shooting factory .357 Mag ammo during night quals back then and they were simply horrible on flash. When we had WW 145 STHP ammo recommended, it was a sweet spot of superb performance on assholes, nearly non-existent muzzle flash and reasonable controllability. I used it with great satisfaction on a few whitetails from a 4" Model 19, too.

I tried finding the silvertips to load. No luck, which is why i tried the 140 xtps.

[03RN]

I've been using Power Pistol more lately and find it to be simply excellent. It's like a miracle Unique. It meters beautifully, gives higher velocities at lower pressures than Unique and seems a bit more accurate. It is freakin' loud though! I'm about to explore it in some .38 Special full power, full bullet weight loads to see what I get. I do know that 8.0 PP with a 250 Keith in .44 Special (let's call it the Brian Pearce load) is perfect.

I cant wait to see your results. Ive heard its cleaner than unique. Im still working on an 8lbs jug of unique but wouldn't mind switching when im done.

5.2gr of unique under 158gr hardcast bullet has been a very comfortable load for me. A bit much for my wife though. She was used to the batch of 4.5gr unique i loaded up.

[Baldanders]

I used a full charge of WW296 (H110 clone) from Speer #9 in .357 Magnum with the 146 Jacketed SWC-HP way back in the mid-70s that I wished produced softball sized fireballs! They were more like a beach ball. I also recall shooting factory .357 Mag ammo during night quals back then and they were simply horrible on flash. When we had WW 145 STHP ammo recommended, it was a sweet spot of superb performance on assholes, nearly non-existent muzzle flash and reasonable controllability. I used it with great satisfaction on a few whitetails from a 4" Model 19, too.

Come to think of it, "softball-sized" was what Blue Dot max loads were like.

I think "basketball-sized" is probably more accurate for H110.

[vtfarmer]

[QUOTE= I'm shooting coated lead these days. :D[/QUOTE]

I've been using Berry's Plated Bullets for 8 years now. The box says "max 1250 fps." I'm running them right around that speed, and on a given day I had them chrono at 1400 fps from my 6", no leading problems so far. Lately I'm getting them from Powder Valley. If I put in the order when they have a "free shipping" special, the 125 gr. bullets have been 8 cents the past two years.

[jtcarm]

Remington 158 SJHP over 14.5 2400.

[SCCY Marshal]

...I read "contra-indicated" as..."reducing performance,"...

Magnum primers can often give greater standard deviation and extreme spread than standard. A lot of folks have found standard primers to be more consistent in their magnum loads in their guns. I found magnum primers to gain me nothing more than another component to pay for and stock with my aggressively roll crimped 158gr LFN over H110 old model Vaquero and Dan Wesson loads.

[Exiledviking]

Sorry for bumping this thread, but it seems to be very relevant to what I'm researching.
I plan on loading some 158 gr XTPs in mid-range velocity for bowling pins, in the 1100 to 1200 fps range. Full power .357 Mag loads aren't needed for the events I shoot. I'd like some recommendations on powder and primers, please.
I have Universal Clays, AA#5, AA#9 at hand along with established loads from several reloading manuals for these powders. Anyone have experience with Universal Clays or AA#5 in .357 Mag?
For my wife's bowling pin revolver I currently load .357 Mag using a 180 gr Missouri Bullet pugnose WFN over 10.4 grains of AA#9 and burns pretty clean, so using AA#9 with a little bit more powder might be the easy route.

I use magnum primers for the AA#9 powder and that 180 gr bullet. If I switch to either Universal or AA#5, can I use regular small pistol primers or even small rifle primers (I have far more SR primers than the others)?

[03RN]

Sorry for bumping this thread, but it seems to be very relevant to what I'm researching.
I plan on loading some 158 gr XTPs in mid-range velocity for bowling pins, in the 1100 to 1200 fps range. Full power .357 Mag loads aren't needed for the events I shoot. I'd like some recommendations on powder and primers, please.
I have Universal Clays, AA#5, AA#9 at hand along with established loads from several reloading manuals for these powders. Anyone have experience with Universal Clays or AA#5 in .357 Mag?
For my wife's bowling pin revolver I currently load .357 Mag using a 180 gr Missouri Bullet pugnose WFN over 10.4 grains of AA#9 and burns pretty clean, so using AA#9 with a little bit more powder might be the easy route.

I use magnum primers for the AA#9 powder and that 180 gr bullet. If I switch to either Universal or AA#5, can I use regular small pistol primers or even small rifle primers (I have far more SR primers than the others)?

Aa9 is what I'd use

[Lester Polfus]

Sorry for bumping this thread, but it seems to be very relevant to what I'm researching.
I plan on loading some 158 gr XTPs in mid-range velocity for bowling pins, in the 1100 to 1200 fps range. Full power .357 Mag loads aren't needed for the events I shoot. I'd like some recommendations on powder and primers, please.
I have Universal Clays, AA#5, AA#9 at hand along with established loads from several reloading manuals for these powders. Anyone have experience with Universal Clays or AA#5 in .357 Mag?
For my wife's bowling pin revolver I currently load .357 Mag using a 180 gr Missouri Bullet pugnose WFN over 10.4 grains of AA#9 and burns pretty clean, so using AA#9 with a little bit more powder might be the easy route.

I use magnum primers for the AA#9 powder and that 180 gr bullet. If I switch to either Universal or AA#5, can I use regular small pistol primers or even small rifle primers (I have far more SR primers than the others)?

Accurate Arms #9 is my favorite .357 powder because I can use a standard primer but still get real "magnum" velocities. Velocity is a little behind the absolute top end you can get from things like H110, but I'm not sure if it's enough to make a difference.

As far as using small rifle primers, other folks have reported success, but I haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

[revchuck38]

Small Rifle primers typically work okay in autoloaders - I went through most of a case during the recent shortage in my 9x19s. If your revolver has had an action job, it might not work with them. Some folks stay away from CCI Small Pistol primers because the cups are harder than other brands' and aren't reliable with worked-over revolvers.

I wouldn't call 1100-1200 fps "mid-range". Some factory 158s chrono in that range from a 4". OTOH, if you're using a 6+" gun, that's another story.

[Spartan1980]

Exiledviking if you already have AA9, that's the easy button. It's a good magnum powder.

BE86, Power Pistol, or Unique would also be good choices.

[Exiledviking]

I plan on using these reloads in a stock 6" 2023 Colt Python. I appreciate your responses. Thank you.

I'll try Winchester small rifle primers to see if the Python will ignite them reliably. If not, I'll use the Winchester small pistol primers.

[willie]

Deleted content. Double post,

[willie]

AA5 and Unique are similar in burn rate.

[Exiledviking]

AA5 and Unique are similar in burn rate.I've read that Unique is very popular for .357 Mag and also read that Universal is very similar to Unique. Looking at the burn rates charts Unique and Universal are right next to each other, which is why I thought Universal would be a good .357 Mag powder.

[revolvergeek]

Take a hard look at Alliant BE86. It'll run from flat mild to completely wild. Super versatile powder that one.

But the BE86 could serve as a single powder for all handgun calibers for almost all shooters. It's that good.

In my limited experience with is BE86 seems be an extremely clean burning powder. Way cleaner any any of the old loads we traditionally cooked up with Unique or Red Dot. Unique is a great do all powder (Red Dot is awesome in smaller volume cases but not one to push for high velocity in big cases). When I use up what I have currently I am going to start working with BE86.

[revchuck38]

In my limited experience with is BE86 seems be an extremely clean burning powder. Way cleaner any any of the old loads we traditionally cooked up with Unique or Red Dot. Unique is a great do all powder (Red Dot is awesome in smaller volume cases but not one to push for high velocity in big cases). When I use up what I have currently I am going to start working with BE86.

I've been pleased with it in .38 Special, 9x19, and .45 ACP. I'm halfway through my second eight-pound jug. I've got about 2k each of 9x19 and .38 Special to load, then I'll get some more coated 158-grain LSWCs and see how it works in .357 Magnum.

[Spartan1980]

In my limited experience with is BE86 seems be an extremely clean burning powder. Way cleaner any any of the old loads we traditionally cooked up with Unique or Red Dot. Unique is a great do all powder (Red Dot is awesome in smaller volume cases but not one to push for high velocity in big cases). When I use up what I have currently I am going to start working with BE86.

I use it in place of Unique. I think it'll load almost any handgun caliber and do well, except for possibly the really big ones like 500 S&W, etc. I have no experience with those. If I was limited to a single powder for all handguns it would be BE86 that I'd want.

[03RN]

Fwiw a max charge of be-86 gets 1150fps with a 158gr swc

[WDR]

Dragging this thread back up. I just got a couple hundred 158gr XTP-FP in to give them a try from my new Marlin levergun... And also explore if expansion happens when fired from my 5.5" Blackhawk and my 3" Model 60. I think the regular hollow point version is a good all around bullet for most uses, but figure the flat points might expand from the Blackhawk. The 3" Model 60 I'm guessing I'll have issues. (Shooting all these in unscientific water jug "tests" BTW). I know 13.5gr of 2400 under the regular JHP expands from the short gun. I may bump my charge up to 14gr, but that is a bit much in the small J-frame .357.

The bullet profile of the flat points seems more rounded, but the OAL, and length in front of the cannelure seem similar. I'm hoping the same die setting will seat both versions to the proper place to get a good crimp in the groove. The 158's and 180's have worked out that way in the past for me.

https://i.imgur.com/NMATLgGh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/4E9ucJeh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/L9Fq3zIh.jpg

BTW, hiking down through those pines with snow on the ground was treacherous a week after I took that photo. I did get close enough to a couple small muley bucks I may have been able to poke one with the levergun, but I held my fire, holding out for their bigger bother. :cool:

[dogknott]

This is a great thread, LOTS of great information...

[358156hp]

This is/was a really good thread. With the powder shortages we're facing now it could stand a bit of freshening up. Anybody got data to share with the powders available these days?

[WDR]

This is/was a really good thread. With the powder shortages we're facing now it could stand a bit of freshening up. Anybody got data to share with the powders available these days?

I don't have any data yet, but when I run out of 2400... I'm considering VV N110 as a replacement. It's similar to 2400 and H110/W296, but doesn't require magnum primers (so it shares that similarity with 2400) and isn't as touchy as the Hodgedon or Winchester.

Also sorta considering AA#9 or #11FS (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=11FS) ...

[358156hp]

I still have a couple of lbs of 2400, and perhaps four or five pounds of Unique. I may simply sell it off at the next gun show since I believe my needs can be handled with Accurate #5 & #9 and the availability of those two have been pretty good recently. I dropped H110/296 from .357 because I felt it was too much of a good thing, and some things that are not as good, like muzzle flash & recoil. Like many of us, I grew up on 2400, but it always seemed like there was some sort of issue with availability looming on the horizon.

[Malamute]

I still have a couple of lbs of 2400, and perhaps four or five pounds of Unique. I may simply sell it off at the next gun show since I believe my needs can be handled with Accurate #5 & #9 and the availability of those two have been pretty good recently. I dropped H110/296 from .357 because I felt it was too much of a good thing, and some things that are not as good, like muzzle flash & recoil. Like many of us, I grew up on 2400, but it always seemed like there was some sort of issue with availability looming on the horizon.


I dont recall it coming up, I looked over this thread,...but have you shot the 358156 much at full power 357s in pistols or in carbines? I have a copy of the mould and am looking forward to using it and making some loads up. I think its probably worth sending off get the hollowpoint modification that can then be used HP or not as desired. Ill probably try them without gas check in 38s and with gas check in 357 loads. Old school gooey lube, possibly SPG, as I have some around.

Im OK on 2400 for now, so thats what Ill use for powder on full power 357 loads. Unique, Universal or Red dot on med+, std level or light 38s.

[WDR]

I have five pounds of 2400 left, which puts me somewhere north of 2000 rounds worth of 158gr .357 loads. Availability of VV N110 has been better, lately, by far over any Alliant powder. I know that is not always the case with VV powders, but I figure I'll bite the bullet and order at least 8lbs, if I can find a single pound locally to try it first.

I'd give H110/W296 a try, but I really prefer a powder that I can dial back a smidgen, if needed, vs the requirement to basically go whole hog and use mag primers all the time.

I have a fair amount of Universal and W231 on hand for lighter loads, if needed.

[Crazy Dane]

When I was running low on 2400, I worked up load using HS6, HP38, and CFE Pistol using 158 SWCS and 158 XTPs. Had decent results with all 3. My dealer scored 2 8-pound jugs of 2400 for me so I abandoned the Hodgdon powders. I can always go back if need be.

[358156hp]

I dont recall it coming up, I looked over this thread,...but have you shot the 358156 much at full power 357s in pistols or in carbines? I have a copy of the mould and am looking forward to using it and making some loads up. I think its probably worth sending off get the hollowpoint modification that can then be used HP or not as desired. Ill probably try them without gas check in 38s and with gas check in 357 loads. Old school gooey lube, possibly SPG, as I have some around.

Im OK on 2400 for now, so thats what Ill use for powder on full power 357 loads. Unique, Universal or Red dot on med+, std level or light 38s.

I have plenty of time with 357 Revolvers, my favorites have always been Ruger DA revolvers starting with the Security-Six, and followed up with GP-100s. The only carbine that ever interested me was the Timber Wolf pump that was offered a short time in the late 1980s into the 19902. For some reason lever actions in handgun calibers never interested me much. I do have a number of 358156 moulds, which I feel is the most versatile design in standard weight. Don't overlook round flat nose (RFN) designs though, I have one NOE RFN that runs around 180 gr for a solid and drops to about 172 gr or so in large HP form. Mine is a gascheck mould which I generally prefer in 357, but since I moved to powdercoating bullets it's not as imperative as it once was. Example: https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/bullet-moulds/358/360-183-rf-aj5/360-183-rf-aj5-rg2-cavity-gc-brp/
Or: https://www.mp-molds.com/product/357-carbine-hollow-point-mold-4-cav-brass-gc-or-pb/

For example. MP also has a plain base version similar to the first design but it appears to only be made in plain base: https://www.mp-molds.com/product/359-640-hollow-point-plain-base-cavity-mold/

[Malamute]

I have plenty of time with 357 Revolvers, my favorites have always been Ruger DA revolvers starting with the Security-Six, and followed up with GP-100s. The only carbine that ever interested me was the Timber Wolf pump that was offered a short time in the late 1980s into the 19902. For some reason lever actions in handgun calibers never interested me much. I do have a number of 358156 moulds, which I feel is the most versatile design in standard weight..



Do the HP versions of the 358156 expand reliably at 4" and 6" 357 revolver velocities? Ill be casting basic straight wheel weight alloy. I have some from pre-zinc days. I feel pretty certain it will expand at carbine velocities. Likely quite energetically.

I dont recall the name, but someone on castboolit forum alters existing moulds for hollowpointing or not, as desired.

I have a small handful of oddball 358 molds, the Lyman/keith 358429, which is longer then desirable for most of my uses, a 123-ish gr rn, the long nose wadcutter, and the crabtree designed 115 gr swc. The 358156 looks like it will cover the majority of general hooting and field use Ill do. I have a winchester 73 carbine in 357 I like quite a lot besides a couple different 38/357 revolvers.

[diananike]

Dragging this thread back up. I just got a couple hundred 158gr XTP-FP in to give them a try from my new Marlin levergun... And also explore if expansion happens when fired from my 5.5" Blackhawk and my 3" Model 60. I think the regular hollow point version is a good all around bullet for most uses, but figure the flat points might expand from the Blackhawk. The 3" Model 60 I'm guessing I'll have issues. (Shooting all these in unscientific water jug "tests" BTW). I know 13.5gr of 2400 under the regular JHP expands from the short gun. I may bump my charge up to 14gr, but that is a bit much in the small J-frame .357.

The bullet profile of the flat points seems more rounded, but the OAL, and length in front of the cannelure seem similar. I'm hoping the same die setting will seat both versions to the proper place to get a good crimp in the groove. The 158's and 180's have worked out that way in the past for me.

https://i.imgur.com/NMATLgGh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/4E9ucJeh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/L9Fq3zIh.jpg

BTW, hiking down through those pines with snow on the ground was treacherous a week after I took that photo. I did get close enough to a couple small muley bucks I may have been able to poke one with the levergun, but I held my fire, holding out for their bigger bother. :cool:

Kentucky Range time on YouTube has a great series where he tests all the different .357 XTPs including the FPs out of 5 different barrel lengths, including a 20” Rossi.
Although it’s clear gel it’s fabulous data on how XTPs react to different velocities and by extension different ranges.
Based on his data it looks like the FP-XTP holds together well till about 2000fps. Much faster it starts to shed jacket material shallowly but still holds together with most of its ass end expanding and penetrating sufficiently .

My Lil gun carbine loads are 19.5gr behind a 158gr FP-XTP. It does right around 2000fps from my 18.5” Marlin. Very potent round and I trust it to do the job on deer out to 100yds no problem.

All that being said I choose to hunt with a scoped .308 or .270. Manitoba has some pretty long shots in fields, meadows and valleys and I prefer to be able to take 200yd + shots if I need to.

[358156hp]

Do the HP versions of the 358156 expand reliably at 4" and 6" 357 revolver velocities? Ill be casting basic straight wheel weight alloy. I have some from pre-zinc days. I feel pretty certain it will expand at carbine velocities. Likely quite energetically.

I dont recall the name, but someone on castboolit forum alters existing moulds for hollowpointing or not, as desired.

I have a small handful of oddball 358 molds, the Lyman/keith 358429, which is longer then desirable for most of my uses, a 123-ish gr rn, the long nose wadcutter, and the crabtree designed 115 gr swc. The 358156 looks like it will cover the majority of general hooting and field use Ill do. I have a winchester 73 carbine in 357 I like quite a lot besides a couple different 38/357 revolvers.

I encourage you to test your loads before relying on them, but I would expect expansion from cast hollowpoints in a 357 magnum revolver at moderate ranges using WW alloy. There are plenty of 358156HP moulds listed on ebay from time to time and they could be cheaper than buying a mould and having it modified. I just have replacement HP pins made for an elderly Hensley & Gibbs 2 cavity mould by hollowpoint mold service https://hollowpointmold.com/. Erik is not the cheapest guy working on moulds, and I didn't expect him to be. I sent it to him because his quality is consistently excellent, and this time was no exception to that rule. I think the guy mentioned being on Cast Bullets (I can't make myself spell it the way they do) is probably a guy by the handle of "Ammohead" and he's in the "Vendors" section there.

The biggest money saver is probably MP Molds in Europe. Miha doesn't list a 358156 clone at this moment but does have other designs ready to ship. Right now a 4 cavity brass HP mould with multiple HP pins is on sale for about $110.00 + shipping. My last shipping charge from him was around $25.00, and it traveled halfway around the world in about a week. NOE offers a version of 358156HP, but he's been out of stock for awhile. The Keith design may cause issues in leverguns because of the nose length which is also too long for short cylinder revolvers like the S&W Model 27s. So watch your nose length when ordering moulds.

[Crazy Dane]

Kentucky Range time on YouTube has a great series where he tests all the different .357 XTPs including the FPs out of 5 different barrel lengths, including a 20” Rossi.
Although it’s clear gel it’s fabulous data on how XTPs react to different velocities and by extension different ranges.
Based on his data it looks like the FP-XTP holds together well till about 2000fps. Much faster it starts to shed jacket material shallowly but still holds together with most of its ass end expanding and penetrating sufficiently .

My Lil gun carbine loads are 19.5gr behind a 158gr FP-XTP. It does right around 2000fps from my 18.5” Marlin. Very potent round and I trust it to do the job on deer out to 100yds no problem.

All that being said I choose to hunt with a scoped .308 or .270. Manitoba has some pretty long shots in fields, meadows and valleys and I prefer to be able to take 200yd + shots if I need to.


Question, in your pic it appears that you have 1894 SBL which is listed with a 16 inch barrel on the web site, is the web site correct and you have a second with the 18.5 barrel? I am working diligently for my own 1894 .357 and I'm torn between pistol grip and barrel length. I wish we could lego these things.

[diananike]

Question, in your pic it appears that you have 1894 SBL which is listed with a 16 inch barrel on the web site, is the web site correct and you have a second with the 18.5 barrel? I am working diligently for my own 1894 .357 and I'm torn between pistol grip and barrel length. I wish we could lego these things.

The picture is from the message I was quoting in my post.
Mine is a 18.5” straight stocked JM 1894 from around 2006.
I like the style of the straight stocks more. I don’t think the extra 2.5” gets you any extra velocity from .357 loads but it does get you a couple of extra rounds.
I’d prefer a straight stocked 16” but they aren’t available.

[Crazy Dane]

The picture is from the message I was quoting in my post.
Mine is a 18.5” straight stocked JM 1894 from around 2006.
I like the style of the straight stocks more. I don’t think the extra 2.5” gets you any extra velocity from .357 loads but it does get you a couple of extra rounds.
I’d prefer a straight stocked 16” but they aren’t available.


OK thanks, I would like a pistol grip 18. I've got decisions to make.

[jtcarm]

Do the HP versions of the 358156 expand reliably at 4" and 6" 357 revolver velocities? Ill be casting basic straight wheel weight alloy. I have some from pre-zinc days. I feel pretty certain it will expand at carbine velocities. Likely quite energetically.

I dont recall the name, but someone on castboolit forum alters existing moulds for hollowpointing or not, as desired.

I have a small handful of oddball 358 molds, the Lyman/keith 358429, which is longer then desirable for most of my uses, a 123-ish gr rn, the long nose wadcutter, and the crabtree designed 115 gr swc. The 358156 looks like it will cover the majority of general hooting and field use Ill do. I have a winchester 73 carbine in 357 I like quite a lot besides a couple different 38/357 revolvers.

The HP mold conversions would be this outfit:
https://hollowpointmold.com/.

Unless your mold is single cavity, for the same or less money you could get a new hollowpoint mold from MP (buy direct from MP, not the Fleabay seller). Miha’s molds are da bomb!

I just started using this one in gas check style. It’s very accurate over 13.5 grains of 2400 in my Security Six. It comes with 3 or 4 different sets of HP pins to form different cavity styles, plus solid pins if you don’t want HPs:

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-c-358-165-rf-4-cavity-hollow-point-mold-multi-choice/

I’m casting 50% WW + 50% pure lead with 1% tin. Haven’t tested expansion (not sure how I would), but I suspect this mix may be a bit soft for magnum velocities.

Glenn Fryxell has published a wealth of info on handgun casting and especially alloy properties for magnum loads using HPs.

https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/writings-from-glen.10100/

Id add some tin to your WW so they’ll cast better, possibly with a little pure lead to offset any hardness added by the tin.

As for powder, I’m going to have to find a substitute for 2400 when I run out. I keep trying to find different powders, but for cast boolit accuracy in magnum revolvers, I’ve found nothing that compares to it.

[Malamute]

The HP mold conversions would be this outfit:
https://hollowpointmold.com/.

Unless your mold is single cavity, for the same or less money you could get a new hollowpoint mold from MP (buy direct from MP, not the Fleabay seller). Miha’s molds are da bomb!

I just started using this one in gas check style. It’s very accurate over 13.5 grains of 2400 in my Security Six. It comes with 3 or 4 different sets of HP pins to form different cavity styles, plus solid pins if you don’t want HPs:

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-c-358-165-rf-4-cavity-hollow-point-mold-multi-choice/

I’m casting 50% WW + 50% pure lead with 1% tin. Haven’t tested expansion (not sure how I would), but I suspect this mix may be a bit soft for magnum velocities.

Glenn Fryxell has published a wealth of info on handgun casting and especially alloy properties for magnum loads using HPs.

https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/writings-from-glen.10100/

Id add some tin to your WW so they’ll cast better, possibly with a little pure lead to offset any hardness added by the tin.

As for powder, I’m going to have to find a substitute for 2400 when I run out. I keep trying to find different powders, but for cast boolit accuracy in magnum revolvers, I’ve found nothing that compares to it.

Thanks. After the previous post suggesting just getting another mould, that sounded like a good plan.

I will need to see if this mould is correct length for the 73 in 357 brass, they are a bit more length critical than some others. That was one thing I like about the Lyman, 358156, the 2 crimp grooves lets you adjust length for 38 and 357 cases and maintain length. The guns supposedly can use both types, but the way the carrier functions, the length of the cartridge is what holds the next round in the mag in place and allows the carrier to rise. They have a bevel to help deal with some shortness, but I feel its likely best not to overuse that, as its brass. The original 73 cartridges basically had one length, boom, done. Pretty simple actions because of that, but one needs to keep things like length in mind when loading.

I have some pure lead, but not a lot, I suspect the majority of my casting will be straight wheel weights, gas checked as needed for the carbine with full power loads. Im mainly wanting to use as much of what I already have rather then having to keep getting more stuff to make it all work. A mould wouldnt be a huge issue, but I dont plan to buy a bunch of them just to tinker with, though I already have a few oddballs to mess with due to poor impulse control at gun shows over the years when I see deals on moulds I could use, often seeking extra-light load potential. Im somewhat of a minimalist in that sense, I find a load that works well, stop, and use it. I recently shot some 30-30 loads I loaded in the early 1980s, I know what bullet, powder and charge because its the same stuff I still use. I can generally tell what bullet, powder and charge of most of my loads by headstamp and just looking at them.

[jtcarm]

Malamute

MP also offers a .357 mold with multiple crimp grooves. Design doesn’t look a whole lot different from the one in the earlier link.

I looked hard for a multi-cavity 358156 HP mold, but none I could find.

I’ve heard NOE offered it in a group buy once, possibly MP also. But they don’t have any now.

If you want to use your 358429 in .357 cases, it can be seated with the case mouth flush with the top of the front driving band and crimped there.

Forster makes a hollow-pointing kit that mounts to their case trimmer, or a compatible model. It makes a straight-sided cavity.

[Malamute]

Malamute

MP also offers a .357 mold with multiple crimp grooves. Design doesn’t look a whole lot different from the one in the earlier link.

I looked hard for a multi-cavity 358156 HP mold, but none I could find.

I’ve heard NOE offered it in a group buy once, possibly MP also. But they don’t have any now.

If you want to use your 358429 in .357 cases, it can be seated with the case mouth flush with the top of the front driving band and crimped there.

Forster makes a hollow-pointing kit that mounts to their case trimmer, or a compatible model. It makes a straight-sided cavity.


Thanks, good stuff to know.

Im probably over the 358429 mould, its just not flexible or practical for a good part of what I want to do, and I dont really want to load multiple loads for single guns or situations, Anything that bullet will do the 358156 can likely realistically do and not require messing with variables to make it work. I like to grab ammo boxes, "ok, 357, lets go..." and work in whatever gun I may have with me.

Part of what Ill be doing is making a portable loading kit, I basically do it when heading to Az in the winter in the past, but want to cast, so minimal amounts of stuff that will do the maximum amount of tasks will be the ticket. I have a friend (in Flag, snow, ugh...) with a single stage press and can stay there part time, but I also want to be able to load with the 310 tool as desired when down in the nice warm Verde country. I dont mind it at all, but it doesnt full length resize. I've gone to friends and sized all my brass with my carbide sizer die on their press, then finished elsewhere at my leisure with the 310 tool. Ive cast on coleman camp stoves many times, but electric lead pots are handier. My old best bud in the Verde moved away. I may need a new girlfriend in the Verde to hang with and stash supplies....

"Hey, can I leave this bucket of wheel weights here?"

[358156hp]

Malamute

MP also offers a .357 mold with multiple crimp grooves. Design doesn’t look a whole lot different from the one in the earlier link.

I looked hard for a multi-cavity 358156 HP mold, but none I could find.

I’ve heard NOE offered it in a group buy once, possibly MP also. But they don’t have any now.

If you want to use your 358429 in .357 cases, it can be seated with the case mouth flush with the top of the front driving band and crimped there.

Forster makes a hollow-pointing kit that mounts to their case trimmer, or a compatible model. It makes a straight-sided cavity.

There are no new 358156HP multi-cavity moulds currently being produced. a tested two or four cavity Lyman mould could be sent to Hollowpoint Mold Service (https://hollowpointmold.com/) for upgrading, but it does cost $80.00 per modified cavity plus shipping. I can enthusiastically recommend the quality of his work. That's the main reason I suggested a different design to get the features you wanted. You could contact NOE and ask them when they may produce this mould again:https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/bullet-moulds/358/360-165-swc-t5/360-165-swc-t5-rg4-cavity-gc/ This mould is available in two cavity right now: https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/bullet-moulds/358/360-183-rf-aj5/360-183-rf-aj5-rg2-cavity-gc-brp/ It is heavier than you were looking at 172 gr in the HP version. I have one of these designs floating around here somewhere. The nice thing about NOEs website is that they show dimensional diagrams on every bullet they offer so you can compare them feature by feature.

[Rick R]

For what it’s worth, when I tried casting hollowpoints on .357, 10mm and .44 those cast with wheel weights or 50/50 wheel weights/lead were prone to shear off the hollowpoint portion when fired into water jugs.

The guys on the Cast Boolit site suggested a mix of 10 - 20% tin to soft lead. I tried 15% tin to 85% soft with air cooled bullets and got some very nice mushrooms with minimal shed lead. I need to visit this again but haven’t had time to cast anything except a some 154gr .357 SWC and 255gr .430 SWC out of my junkyard COWW / recovered range lead mix for the last year or two.

[Malamute]

For what it’s worth, when I tried casting hollowpoints on .357, 10mm and .44 those cast with wheel weights or 50/50 wheel weights/lead were prone to shear off the hollowpoint portion when fired into water jugs.

The guys on the Cast Boolit site suggested a mix of 10 - 20% tin to soft lead. I tried 15% tin to 85% soft with air cooled bullets and got some very nice mushrooms with minimal shed lead. I need to visit this again but haven’t had time to cast anything except a some 154gr .357 SWC and 255gr .430 SWC out of my junkyard COWW / recovered range lead mix for the last year or two.


What molds and velocities? Barrel lengths?

I havent priced tin, lead or other stuff, but Im on a pretty slim budget. I have fair amounts of wheel weights, and a limited amount of plain lead which I was saving for percussion pistols if possible. Im trying to work with what I have as much as possible. I could probably swing a used 358156 HP mould on ebay if one came up reasonably, or a Forster hollowpointing setup for the case trimmer, but otherwise Im trying to make the best of what I have.

Depending on what critters one wishes to shoot, the tip coming apart and off isnt necessarily the worst thing that could happen, though a nice uniform expansion is best in general of course.

[Rick R]

What molds and velocities? Barrel lengths?



I’m using various NOE molds out of 2 1/2” to 4” barrels and mid-range loads in everything. Apparently the antimony in COWW makes the bullets hard but brittle. Tin makes them harder than pure lead but malleable. I found a place on ebay with ingots of 50/50 solder and added those to soft lead to SWAG at 15/85% tin/lead assuming the initial composition is as advertised.

Bullets cast with a hollowpoint out of COWW/ soft or range lead hit the same POI as the tin/soft bullets so I just need enough of the boutique mix for hunting but Life has intruded on my casting time for the last several years and I’ve defaulted to hardcast water quenched SWC or WFN with the theory that they’re accurate and good enough to produce two holes through any critter here in Appalachia.

[Rick R]

I’m settled on the bullets this mould drops for my .38 and .357 loads. While I haven’t chrono’d it my mid-range load using BE-86 hits with factory 158gr JHP ammo out to 50 yards.

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/bullet-moulds/358/360-154-swc-t2/

I’m using the mold for solid bullets, if I were using it for hunting I’d probably get the hollow point mold. NOE’s HP moulds usually cast as fast with the hollow point pins as they do with the solid point pins. The solid moulds without pins are just cheaper.
In fact I may do just that to give me an extra mold in case something happens to my primary.
It’s only money…

[Malamute]

I’m using various NOE molds out of 2 1/2” to 4” barrels and mid-range loads in everything. Apparently the antimony in COWW makes the bullets hard but brittle. Tin makes them harder than pure lead but malleable. I found a place on ebay with ingots of 50/50 solder and added those to soft lead to SWAG at 15/85% tin/lead assuming the initial composition is as advertised.

Bullets cast with a hollowpoint out of COWW/ soft or range lead hit the same POI as the tin/soft bullets so I just need enough of the boutique mix for hunting but Life has intruded on my casting time for the last several years and I’ve defaulted to hardcast water quenched SWC or WFN with the theory that they’re accurate and good enough to produce two holes through any critter here in Appalachia.


I probably will only use a modest amount of hollowpoint magnum cast bullets, Ill see how much plain lead I have to soften the wheel weight metal. Im transitioning from being grizzly capable oriented to wimpy shoulder milder loads and eventual relocate to Az, so black bear and possible feral hog capable is the level Im now aspiring to. Regular cast swc magnum loads will probably do most of that in 357, no doubt in moderate 44 carbine loads, though in either, well performing HPs improve effect in many uses without compromising overall usefulness.

If I sold the larger jacketed bullets Ill never use, like 338 and heavy 35s I could probably buy all the specific use casting alloy Id every need.

[358156hp]

For what it’s worth, when I tried casting hollowpoints on .357, 10mm and .44 those cast with wheel weights or 50/50 wheel weights/lead were prone to shear off the hollowpoint portion when fired into water jugs.

The guys on the Cast Boolit site suggested a mix of 10 - 20% tin to soft lead. I tried 15% tin to 85% soft with air cooled bullets and got some very nice mushrooms with minimal shed lead. I need to visit this again but haven’t had time to cast anything except a some 154gr .357 SWC and 255gr .430 SWC out of my junkyard COWW / recovered range lead mix for the last year or two.

Antimony is a grain refiner for lead. In small doses it strengthens lead based alloys but in higher amounts it will make the lead based alloy increasingly more brittle. Wheelweights are a true "mutt" alloy anymore, with all the recycling, some really sketchy alloys get blended into wheelweights so you never really know what you're getting if you use salvage wheelweight alloy. For hollowpoint casting I prefer to use basic lead/tin alloys. Depending on your intended target, the most popular alloys for hollowpoints are usually 20:1 https://www.rotometals.com/1-to-20-bullet-alloy-ingot-95-lead-5-tin-5lb-ingot/, and 30:1 https://www.rotometals.com/1-to-30-bullet-alloy-ingot-5-pounds-97-lead-3-tin/. Elmer Keith favored 16:1 https://www.rotometals.com/1-to-16-bullet-alloy-5-pound-ingot-94-lead-6-tin/ for most uses. There is also a 10:1 alloy, which is pretty close in hardness to Lyman #2 alloy, but you generally have to mix that yourself. Notice that Rotometals and I speak in reverse when describing alloy content. We're saying the same thing different ways.

I gave up on using salvage alloys for hollowpoints quite a while back. There are significant variations is salvage alloy performance in hollowpoints even with the so-called "stick on" weights. Variances in alloy will cause variances in bullet performance. As mentioned above, antimonial alloys can fracture on impact depending on the variables like antimony percentage, velocity, bullet and hollowpoint design. I wasn't getting consistent, dependable expansion until I went to foundry alloys.

[Malamute]

Was there a point in time wheel weights were less flaky of an alloy?

Some of my wheel weights, perhaps 4 gallons or so worth, are 35 or 40 years old. I had them stashed at dads place and retrieved them after he passed.

Buying the roto alloy comes out to about 221 bullets for the 5 lb ingot for $22. No idea what shipping would be.

A buddy gave me a lead shower pan he removed, I dont know how much weight it is, I cut it up into strips and packed it in 2 gallon buckets. I could soften the wheel weights with it, but as mentioned, I was planning on using it for percussion pistol bullets and possibly rifle round balls, another strong interest I plan to pursue more before long.

[Rick R]

Antimony is a grain refiner for lead.

Much well thought out and knowledgeable stuff redacted

As mentioned above, antimonial alloys can fracture on impact depending on the variables like antimony percentage, velocity, bullet and hollowpoint design. I wasn't getting consistent, dependable expansion until I went to foundry alloys.

I posted my answer last night while tired. You are correct the ratio I was given by the CB guys was somewhere between 1 part tin to 10 - 20 parts soft lead. I had 1 pound ingots of 50/50 solder and mixed each with seven pounds of soft lead, giving me a 1/15 ratio. The mushrooms with that mix into water jugs were textbook.

I don’t know what orifice I pulled those percentages out of. Mea Culpa.

[4given]

Skeeter Skelton loads


http://www.darkcanyon.net/MyFriend_The357.htm

[358156hp]

Was there a point in time wheel weights were less flaky of an alloy?

Some of my wheel weights, perhaps 4 gallons or so worth, are 35 or 40 years old. I had them stashed at dads place and retrieved them after he passed.

Buying the roto alloy comes out to about 221 bullets for the 5 lb ingot for $22. No idea what shipping would be.

A buddy gave me a lead shower pan he removed, I dont know how much weight it is, I cut it up into strips and packed it in 2 gallon buckets. I could soften the wheel weights with it, but as mentioned, I was planning on using it for percussion pistol bullets and possibly rifle round balls, another strong interest I plan to pursue more before long.

If your WWs are that old you should be in good shape. Nowdays WW alloy is blended with other alloys to lower the cost. One favorite that is commonly used is zinc, which has poor casting properties when combined with lead, and has a much higher melting point than lead. The net result of zinc contamination is most commonly poor fillout and porous castings. Some WWs are now made of zinc which is less toxic than lead, other WWs are made of steel. Zinc WWs are marked "Zn", the designation for zinc: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=zinc+wheelweight&iax=images&ia=images Steel WWs are normally marked "Fe": https://www.bendpak.ca/wheel-service/wheel-weights/clip-on-wheel-weight-5150265/. I think the most common way to sort WWs anymore is with a pair of sidecutting pliers (sidecutters). If you can dent the WW with sidecutters using moderate pressure, it's most likely lead. If you can't dent the WW, it's most likely zinc or steel. Zinc is a really hard metal. Interestingly enough some guys actually cast bullets with zinc! It makes a very hard, very lightweight bullet. The guys doing this report some really high velocities. Zinc does require casting at very high temps compared to lead. Personally, I'll stick to lead.

Another potential source for lead is bullet swaging companies. I just ordered 60 lbs of scrap bullet core lead from RMR:https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/rmr-in-house/casting-lead-from-rmr-jacketed-bullet-cores-approximately-12-brinnel-hardness/. It is most likely pure lead with about 2% of antimony to make the lead swage into shape more consistently. It should be around 12 bhn or so, and has no tin in the mix. I'll see how it works out and let you know, but it'll be awhile before I'll get a chance to do it. I suspect I may end up adding a couple of percent of tin at most if this alloy doesn't fill out the moulds well. Tin basically reduces the surface tension of lead alloys, improving mould fillout and overall castability. I won't add much, if I add any at all. Tin percentages should be lower than the antimony content and I really don't want to play Mad Scientist trying to balance the two out.