Attention PF Docs - - - Treatment for sore shoulder (old guy)

[flyrodr]

Here’s the deal. Shoot about 200-400 rounds a week, almost all 9mm (small amount of .22LR). Usually in G19. Have a sore strong side shoulder. Primary cause, I think, was the result of “batting” a fallen limb against a tree trunk to break the limb for disposal. Limb wasn't as rotten as I thought, didn’t break, but shoulder did feel the impact. The initial problem/pain appeared solved with a shot (cortisone or something similar) from orthopedist and PT (stretching, etc.). This happened a couple of years ago.

In the last year or so, shoulder has developed a dull ache, and I’m not sure of the cause, i.e., is it related to that original injury, is it exacerbated by shooting, age (71 on next birthday). Pain does seem to increase a bit after shooting, and I probably have been doing more lately, perhaps carrying/using fairly large backpack leaf blower (with the blower tube held by my strong side hand), or maybe even using laptop mouse. The stretching exercises (“rubber bands”) and light weights help pain go away, but usually only for a few hours. Sometimes wake up in the middle of the night with shoulder or elbow ache.

Been back to ortho. He’s X-rayed shoulder and neck (no MRI), and hasn’t seen anything as a clear cause (some arthritis, couple of small spurs, but no rotator cuff issue, no "ah ha - - - that's it" as cause). Early on he prescribed diclofenac. More recently, just Tylenol and ibuprofen. And continue the PT.

Doing all that, but still nagging pain. It's primarily a bother when still (sitting, sleeping). Not as noticeable when active.

Any of you docs, higher volume shooters, and/or old guys, had similar pain and found a cause, treatment and/or solution?

Thanks!!

[BN]

and/or old guys, had similar pain and found a cause, treatment and/or solution?

Thanks!!

Old guy here. 74. :) You mean that the only thing that hurts is your shoulder. Lucky you. LOL

Leaf blower; probably. I can't use a weed eater at all. I've had problems with a lot of mouse use too.

I use bands, Ibuprofen and I use those little exercise balls and rubber bands. I also get tuned up by a chiropractor every few weeks. I've been taking Celebrex for several years.

[YVK]

Repetitive injury from casting a fly rod? Joking, but only half-joking.

My area of expertise is about one foot down and one foot center of your shoulder so I'll promptly shut up after this post. Three points of observation:
- X-ray is a very crude and basic tests, especially when looking at soft tissues. I think MR or something like this would be better.
- Long term ibuprofen, celebrex etc provide a good chunk of business to me, my GI friends, my nephro colleagues and I would not recommend it as a long term patch.
- I've just consulted on a case of two cerebral arteries injury with multi-focal strokes likely due to chiro neck manipulation. I wouldn't let anyone manipulate my neck except for a massage.

[flyrodr]

Repetitive injury from casting a fly rod? Joking, but only half-joking.

My area of expertise is about one foot down and one foot center of your shoulder so I'll promptly shut up after this post. Three points of observation:
- X-ray is a very crude and basic tests, especially when looking at soft tissues. I think MR or something like this would be better.
- Long term ibuprofen, celebrex etc provide a good chunk of business to me, my GI friends, my nephro colleagues and I would not recommend it as a long term patch.
- I've just consulted on a case of two cerebral arteries injury with multi-focal strokes likely due to chiro neck manipulation. I wouldn't let anyone manipulate my neck except for a massage.

Probably should have elaborated. Doc did say short term on ibuprofen/Tylenol. And said if there was no improvement soon, "we" should do an MRI. Trying to find a fix, other than "change sport", that doesn't involve sharp instruments, drugs, etc. It's just that I have a three day class coming up the end of April, and wanted to see if I could get rid of soreness and pick up training pace before then.

Fly casting . . . "the gentle art"? Just couldn't happen. Actually, it can, and particularly when the angler works too hard at casting instead of letting the rod do the work. A late friend of mine, Lefty Kreh, was a terrific person, angler and caster, and he taught and preached a very efficient and effective casting stroke he used, so that he could fish all day without getting tired. Some people's casting looks like swatting flies. Lefty's looked like a slow motion replay, but it was just perfect timing. Apologies for digressing . . .

[rayrevolver]

I AM NOT A DOCTOR. I had some sore shoulder issues. Long story short, I have been taking Turmeric daily and don't ever plan to stop. Puritans Pride is always on sale + SALE15 is 15% off right now.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/top-10-evidence-based-health-benefits-of-turmeric

Edit: I was starting to take Advil regularly and found out that was bad. Was told about a local massage person who actually helped my shoulder a lot. But they recommended the Turmeric vice Advil/Tylenol.

I probably need to reevaluate the long term dose now that my shoulder is fine.

Hopefully the MDs have insight into this supplement. Billions of Indians eat the stuff daily... Can't be that bad!

[LittleLebowski]

I've had problems with a lot of mouse use too.


I strongly recommend a roller ball mouse. You'll wonder how you got on without it before.

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-M570-Wireless-Trackball-Mouse/dp/B0043T7FXE/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=rollerball+mouse&qid=1582202644&sr=8-3

[mtnbkr]

I have/had similar problems myself. It got so bad at one point it kept me from mountain biking. My ortho diagnosed it as a strength imbalance and gave me a list of exercises and stretches to perform. Doing that for several weeks and then incorporating more stretching, shoulder shrugs, and flys, and reverse flys into my workout routine has mostly kept the pain away (can sometimes bother me at night if I sleep on a shoulder too long).

Chris

[flyrodr]

I'm thinking/hoping this is my problem as well. Certainly share the sleeping on shoulder/pain issue. Waiting on callback for PT appt.

Thanks.


I have/had similar problems myself. It got so bad at one point it kept me from mountain biking. My ortho diagnosed it as a strength imbalance and gave me a list of exercises and stretches to perform. Doing that for several weeks and then incorporating more stretching, shoulder shrugs, and flys, and reverse flys into my workout routine has mostly kept the pain away (can sometimes bother me at night if I sleep on a shoulder too long).

Chris

[txdpd]

How old is your mattress and is it supportive? Does it sag in the middle?

How’s your posture when you sit?

If you’re a side sleeper they make pillows for that. If you’re sleeping on your side because you can’t breathe or get comfortable on your back, it may be time for a new mattress and/or pillows.

If you slouch when you sit or end up in a rounded position when you sleep, you may pass a Neer or Hawkins test for impingement, but your posture or position leaves you internally rotated and the turbecle on the head of you humerus starts compressing tissue inside you shoulder.

[blues]

I have issues with my shoulder when sleeping as well. It comes and goes with whether my rotator cuff is acting up or not. The Tempurpedic is not to blame.

(Chronic since a mountaineering injury in 1974. Lifting helped greatly but the issue still comes and goes.)

Unfortunately, I can only sleep on my back when it's daylight out. At night it doesn't work for me, no matter what. So, relegated to side sleep. (Have the right pillows.)

[RJ]

Buzz I can relate, I had a similar spell shooting a bunch of rounds a year or two ago. I hope you feel better.

If it helps, this is what I posted May '18 in my journal.

Well, I think my USPSA career is over.

Ever since the 7 stage match, I've had pretty bad painful shoulder pain. The pain is centered left side, rear, exactly in the same place as I had last fall when I had shot a bunch of rounds trying out a G19.

After two to three weeks of Motrin and Ice treatments, I'm just now seeing some reduction in discomfort. I opted not to see the Orthopedic Doc 1) it is a boat load of money for my deductable and 2) it was just below the threshold for me of pain (for whatever reason pain doesn't seem to affect me like it does most people.)

Anyways, given the same result (shoulder issues) from essentially the same source (multiple rounds in a day) I am going to call a halt to any thoughts I had of qualifying this year. I'll continue to make monthly proficiency runs to the square range, but I don't think I'll physically be able to stand up to shooting a match anymore.

Bummer, but life is about more than shooting. Plus it will give me a chance to reinvent my dry practice skills, work on my draw and try out my new G26.5 (which, believe it or not, I have not shot yet.)

next post

Went to my Orthopedic Center this morning. They took X-rays and did a physical assessment.

The Doc saw no evidence of Arthritis or degradation of the bones, so that was good.

Apparently I have Subacromial Bursitus, an inflammation of the bursa sac between certain bones in the shoulder. As I raise my arm, there is impingement of the bursa, causing pain. This was likely brought on by the 7-stage match plus how I used to sleep (arms over head/on tummy - I stopped doing that after this all started.)

So, no surgery, but he gave me a shot in the joint. I’m to follow up with some PT as well as do some exercises he’s going to send me to strengthen my rotator cuffs to reduce risk of this in future.

The shot is really helping; tonight is the first time I’ve been essentially out of pain for four weeks. No Motrin tonight either.

I’ll likely work this all offline, so it doesn’t look like I’ll be updating my journal for a while.

Get well soon.

[NEPAKevin]

Last winter I fell and must have tried to stop the fall with my arm and jammed the ball into the socket. I forget what the doc called it (impacted rotator maybe?) but it hurt for a couple of months and a year later still sometimes has a dull ache. They had me doing stretches which actually seemed to help. One was basically pulling the bad arm arm across the body with the other arm. Another was up and behind the back of the neck using a towel, or something as an extension so the other arm could pull. I also use Biofreeze. If nothing else, it opens my sinuses.

[Borderland]

Try some non THC hemp. Works for me. My doc won't talk about. He prescribed PT, didn't do a damn thing for me and I kept to the schedule for a month. If you happen to be in a state where you can buy it go directly to Garden of Life 30 mil caps. Neighbor uses it for knee pain. I use it for sciatica. Hope you find some relief.

[karandom]

I'm not an old guy, but I've had 2 shoulder surgeries and neck pain issues for a while.

I highly recommend hanging from a bar. It seems so simple but its amazing what simply hanging from a pull up on a regular basis will do for you shoulder and neck.

Obviously check with your PT and you may need to work up to a full hang (ie keep feet on the floor to start).

We are almost all hunched over our computers for too long so this is good for everyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmt7uSU3mmU

[idahojess]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmt7uSU3mmU

I like the Bob and Brad stuff. Always good info, particularly regarding posture issues. I'll try that hanging stuff.

As a shooter, one thing I find aggravates my shoulder is racking slides. I have a bunch of hand issues, so that may be unique to me. I avoid racking by using the slidelock off an empty mag.

This is a good tip, too:


http://youtu.be/JObYtU7Y7ag

(I'm not a doctor...)

[txdpd]

As a shooter, one thing I find aggravates my shoulder is racking slides. I have a bunch of hand issues, so that may be unique to me. I avoid racking by using the slidelock off an empty mag.



Will your hands and shoulder let you anchor the slide with the off hand and rack the pistol?


https://youtu.be/9Nms9JiygzU

The off hand grip doesn’t need to be that exaggerated but covering the ejection port is not conducive to malfunction clearing and pinching the pinkie in the ejection port hurts and prevents the pistol from going into battery.

[idahojess]

Will your hands and shoulder let you anchor the slide with the off hand and rack the pistol?



When I rack the slide, I do try to use the strong (left) hand to push forward. However, due to very limited mobility and strength in my weak hand fingers, I can't grasp a slide like that.

I can rack a slide -- it's just that when I do it (for me) it ends up that my weak (literally) arm has that very bad forward rotation position with the shoulder that causes all sorts of shoulder issues. One of the things I've been playing with is a super tight-in to my body position while racking, almost at chest level. But, for easy use, I prefer to just use the slide release, if I can.

(And yeah, an M&P EZ 9 is on my list of possible purchases.)

[flyrodr]

Thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences and suggestions! There is hope!!

[txdpd]

When I rack the slide, I do try to use the strong (left) hand to push forward. However, due to very limited mobility and strength in my weak hand fingers, I can't grasp a slide like that.

I can rack a slide -- it's just that when I do it (for me) it ends up that my weak (literally) arm has that very bad forward rotation position with the shoulder that causes all sorts of shoulder issues. One of the things I've been playing with is a super tight-in to my body position while racking, almost at chest level. But, for easy use, I prefer to just use the slide release, if I can.

(And yeah, an M&P EZ 9 is on my list of possible purchases.)


https://youtu.be/GcCxgZp8mdc

I don’t know if this is useful. Something I played around with for a minute was how to with the thumb and no fingers. It’s like the sling shot but it’s grasping the slide from the top and picking it between the thumb and side of the index finger knuckle. Not particularly nice to skin on the side of the knuckle, but it’s a surprisingly strong grasp.

[idahojess]

I don’t know if this is useful. Something I played around with for a minute was how to with the thumb and no fingers. It’s like the sling shot but it’s grasping the slide from the top and picking it between the thumb and side of the index finger knuckle. Not particularly nice to skin on the side of the knuckle, but it’s a surprisingly strong grasp.

Yep, that's very similar to what I do, pinch between the thumb and index finger, or really the pad of my palm below the index finger-- plus I grip tape the slide, and have ledge rear sights.

A lot of this stuff I don't really think about how I do it. Just trial and error.

[Lex Luthier]

I came across this while dealing with some impingement issues a few days back. It seems to have some positive effect after two days.
https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a30893524/shoulder-mobility-prone-arm-circle/

As for weaker hands- yep, just diagnosed with arthritis in left thumb base and index finger...

[Nephrology]

For what it's worth, if the ortho isn't doing anything except throwing OTC meds at you, I'd ask for a referral to PT if that is something you can access affordably. Not sure another MD will be very helpful to you.

I had bad patellofemoral syndrome (wastebasket diagnosis for a bum knee) and had a lot of success working with them. YMMV. Otherwise, ditto to everything YVK said.

[flyrodr]

Thanks again for all the suggestions. Gonna try the lacrosse ball one.

And Neph, agree on OTC stuff. Doc has had me on diclofenac before for a short time, and has given me a shot or two. But going PT route for now; have appt this Friday. Would prefer that to reading warning labels.