Post-HB961 Suppressor Quest

[jc000]

HB961 has died and I can no longer put off these damn suppressor purchases I've been needing to make!

I have a .300 BO (9") and some 5.56 rifles I'd like to suppress. Recognizing there are many great options out there. I'm looking for the greatest longevity, sound suppression, cross compatibility, and lightest weight (in that order). Here is what I'm thinking:

9" .300 BO

Dead Air Sandman S
Some new and better hotness?


5.56

YHM Turbo K (Key Mo compatible?)
Dead Air Sandman S (one and done)
Dead Air Sandman K
Surefire G2 RC-2 (would use dedicated on an SBR)
Again, the latest and greatest hotness?


Yes lots of threads on the same subject. It seems like suppressor technology is changing on a monthly basis and I certainly want to be on the forefront of what's the cream of the crop today.

I half think I could just get a Sandman S and swap between everything but 5.56 is my main bag and I think I'd like a dedicated 5.56 can. The YHM is so inexpensive, it's kinda hard to pass by.

What say you NFA brain trust?

[LittleLebowski]

I’d prolly get a Vox S (both lighter and tougher than the Sandman, but with universal mount) and the Turbo K.

[mtnbkr]

My needs/constraints were a bit different than yours, but I ultimately decided on the Energetic Vox S. It seemed to have a lot of flexibility mount-wise, was overbuilt for my needs, and pretty quiet (especially with subs and the wipe).

https://energeticarms.com/vox-centerfire-silencer/

Rating: 7.62mm / .30cal bore
5.56mm / 308WIN / 300BLK Full Auto
300WM / 300RUM
No barrel length restrictions

ETA: LL beat me to it. I was typing and talking to SWMBO. :)

Chris

[Grey]

Impulse bought a Vox S. The NASA material was a deciding factor... yes I nerd out about shit like that.

[jc000]

Already got a PM into my friendly neighborhood suppressor slinger… thanks for the recommendation guys! Thinking I'll throw in the Turbo K as well, hard to beat the price there.

It's sad that none of my .22s are suppressible (currently). :(

[Grey]

Already got a PM into my friendly neighborhood suppressor slinger… thanks for the recommendation guys! Thinking I'll throw in the Turbo K as well, hard to beat the price there.

It's sad that none of my .22s are suppressible (currently). :(

Sounds like an excuse to get more .22s.

I need to get a few more cans... One you start you can't stop... I don't even have one in hand but I need more...

[HCM]

HB961 has died and I can no longer put off these damn suppressor purchases I've been needing to make!

I have a .300 BO (9") and some 5.56 rifles I'd like to suppress. Recognizing there are many great options out there. I'm looking for the greatest longevity, sound suppression, cross compatibility, and lightest weight (in that order). Here is what I'm thinking:

9" .300 BO

Dead Air Sandman S
Some new and better hotness?


5.56

YHM Turbo K (Key Mo compatible?)
Dead Air Sandman S (one and done)
Dead Air Sandman K
Surefire G2 RC-2 (would use dedicated on an SBR)
Again, the latest and greatest hotness?


Yes lots of threads on the same subject. It seems like suppressor technology is changing on a monthly basis and I certainly want to be on the forefront of what's the cream of the crop today.

I half think I could just get a Sandman S and swap between everything but 5.56 is my main bag and I think I'd like a dedicated 5.56 can. The YHM is so inexpensive, it's kinda hard to pass by.

What say you NFA brain trust?

I have a YHM Turbo K in NFA jail. Did a test fit in store with the Keymo adaptor I use in my Omega before purchasing the Turbo K. Keymo adaptor and mount fits the Turbo K just fine.

[Dan_S]

I’d prolly get a Vox S (both lighter and tougher than the Sandman, but with universal mount) and the Turbo K.


They’re utilizing some questionable marketing claims, at least.

You don’t get lighter *and* stronger at high temperature *and* resistant to abrasion, etc.

[jc000]

They’re utilizing some questionable marketing claims, at least.

You don’t get lighter *and* stronger at high temperature *and* resistant to abrasion, etc.

If you’re using a different material, why not? Serious question.

[HCM]

They’re utilizing some questionable marketing claims, at least.

You don’t get lighter *and* stronger at high temperature *and* resistant to abrasion, etc.

You can, via different materials but it would normally cost more.

[Hansohn Brothers]

They’re utilizing some questionable marketing claims, at least.

You don’t get lighter *and* stronger at high temperature *and* resistant to abrasion, etc.

I'm not a metallurgist so I'll leave the C300 vs. Stellite vs. 17-4 stainless conversation to those that know more than I do.

Good, unbiased article on the Vox. (https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/03/23/energetic-armament-vox/)

[Dan_S]

If you’re using a different material, why not? Serious question.

Ti has a higher yield strength than stainless, yet, isn’t as abrasion resistant. See where I’m going with this?

[LittleLebowski]

They’re utilizing some questionable marketing claims, at least.

You don’t get lighter *and* stronger at high temperature *and* resistant to abrasion, etc.


What’s questionable here?

https://energeticarms.com/vox-centerfire-silencer/


Other manufacturers are stuck with 17-4 H1150 Stainless which has a yield of 100ksi or 6Al-4V titanium which has a yield of 120ksi. The C300 maraging steel used in the VOX™ is heat treated to achieve a yield of over 270ksi. What’s more: It has more strength at 1,000°F than either stainless (17-4 H1150) or titanium have at room temp! The unique material science of the VOX means you don’t have to compromise- you get the rugged full-auto rated capability of a heavy silencer with the light weight of a less rugged titanium can. No other silencer offers this spectrum of capabilities and features.

48856

[joshs]

I too celebrated today by ordering a YHM Turbo K2 and EA Nyx Mod 2 from Hansohn Brothers.

[Grey]

Ti has a higher yield strength than stainless, yet, isn’t as abrasion resistant. See where I’m going with this?

Not really...

[FPS]

My only experience with suppressors is my Sandman S. I like it but it is heavy (especially if you add a suppressor cover with a high heat rating). The mount is great. I think the weight and durability was probably overkill for my needs but I was looking for a one and done option.

[LittleLebowski]

From the designer of the Vox:

We will go on the assumption that other cans are 17-4 in the H900 condition (still not sure about this). If so, using MMPDS the C300 has a 59% higher yield at room temp and at 1,000F. I believe those are real numbers using real validated data. If this was H1150 then it is 170% stronger at RT and 114% at 1,000F.

[LittleLebowski]

I like how they tested it with det cord:


We have validated our weld process in several ways. We developed a HASS (highly accelerated stress screening) process to simulate thousands of heat/cool cycles then shot the HASS cycled samples. The silencers were then inspected with dye penetrate to look for any cracking and then sectioned and inspected through the cross section of the welds. C300 is fairly simple to weld and very tolerant however all parts are solvent cleaned prior to welding and all welds are argon backed to protect the root. We also took the rather unusual step of using high explosives (det cord) through the bore to shock stress the welds to failure to make sure we tore base metal. I realize this explosive testing is very unconventional but that is how innovation happens! Not going to lie, it is also fun to use high explosives to test anything ;)

[LittleLebowski]

48863

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[LittleLebowski]

48865

48866

48867

[LittleLebowski]

Until this was brought up, I forgot how awesome the Vox S is.

Around 15:17 on this video is funny.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z17UQUYzPhQ

[mtnbkr]

I watched that video last week. It was what finally convinced me the Vox was the way to go.

Chris

[Dan_S]

So yield strength, doesn’t amount to much in this discussion. That’s the ‘big’ selling point of the Vox. It’s information, that to my pea-sized-brain doesn’t amount to anything other than very questionable marketing.

There’s no free lunch. Yield strength doesn’t inherently mean you get better abrasion resistance. The yield strength of stainless is more than adequate for building a superb can. The repeated use of phrasing about the marvels of this particular super-alloy, would seem to indicate that it’s something...vastly different than anything else on the market, yet Stellite is cobalt-chromium alloy, not to mention that Inconel is a nickel-chromium ‘super-alloy’ itself.


This is a different alloy than has been used before. They’ve done some interesting things. I want to like what they’ve done. They overlook that some of us don’t want to have a product ‘sold’ by repeated statements that don’t, by themselves, have much to do with what matters in this application.

[JRB]

So yield strength, doesn’t amount to much in this discussion. That’s the ‘big’ selling point of the Vox. It’s information, that to my pea-sized-brain doesn’t amount to anything other than very questionable marketing.

There’s no free lunch. Yield strength doesn’t inherently mean you get better abrasion resistance. The yield strength of stainless is more than adequate for building a superb can. The repeated use of phrasing about the marvels of this particular super-alloy, would seem to indicate that it’s something...vastly different than anything else on the market, yet Stellite is cobalt-chromium alloy, not to mention that Inconel is a nickel-chromium ‘super-alloy’ itself.


This is a different alloy than has been used before. They’ve done some interesting things. I want to like what they’ve done. They overlook that some of us don’t want to have a product ‘sold’ by repeated statements that don’t, by themselves, have much to do with what matters in this application.

Working professionally with high end aftermarket turbochargers helped me develop more than a passing familiarity with the materials in question. I have to give them a nod for doing something different and pushing for something new outside of the endless field of 6061 and 17-4 and Grade 6 Ti in the competition. Some new materials do actually let you have your cake and eat it too, like the 'Gamma-Ti' turbine wheels found in some modern aftermarket turbos. Light as hell and strong and amazingly resistant to wild temperature deltas.

If you want to go micro-level over analysis and play the pure optimization curve between your performance needs in a suppressor and cost, the best bet is to DIY on a Form 1 because otherwise I don't think you'll never be satisfied.

The Vox is profoundly overbuilt for my needs and otherwise reasonably priced against its competition. It's also made by a company that cares enough about their product to get weird with testing but is business savvy enough to make fun marketing and pretty Titanium weld porn from it too? I can get on board with that.

I'll take material science nerdery and pretty Ti welding over "USED BY THE SPECIALIST SPECIAL FORCES TACTICAL TIP OF THE SPEAR FIPE PITTERS HARD CORPS TACTICAL RAH" marketing that typically comes with suppressor marketing.

Besides, purely operating on price it's still competitive, too.

[LittleLebowski]

So yield strength, doesn’t amount to much in this discussion. That’s the ‘big’ selling point of the Vox. It’s information, that to my pea-sized-brain doesn’t amount to anything other than very questionable marketing.

There’s no free lunch. Yield strength doesn’t inherently mean you get better abrasion resistance. The yield strength of stainless is more than adequate for building a superb can. The repeated use of phrasing about the marvels of this particular super-alloy, would seem to indicate that it’s something...vastly different than anything else on the market, yet Stellite is cobalt-chromium alloy, not to mention that Inconel is a nickel-chromium ‘super-alloy’ itself.


This is a different alloy than has been used before. They’ve done some interesting things. I want to like what they’ve done. They overlook that some of us don’t want to have a product ‘sold’ by repeated statements that don’t, by themselves, have much to do with what matters in this application.

Why are you so worried about abrasion resistance? You're not dragging the can over gravel. Mine doesn't have a scratch on it so far. It sounds like you're hunting for a reason to dislike a can that's lighter than a Sandman S, yet tougher than it, and also has a universal mount combined with the cool front wipe. Not to mention that it's not expensive. The Vox is a win.

kedminster

[Grey]

So yield strength, doesn’t amount to much in this discussion. That’s the ‘big’ selling point of the Vox. It’s information, that to my pea-sized-brain doesn’t amount to anything other than very questionable marketing.

There’s no free lunch. Yield strength doesn’t inherently mean you get better abrasion resistance. The yield strength of stainless is more than adequate for building a superb can. The repeated use of phrasing about the marvels of this particular super-alloy, would seem to indicate that it’s something...vastly different than anything else on the market, yet Stellite is cobalt-chromium alloy, not to mention that Inconel is a nickel-chromium ‘super-alloy’ itself.


This is a different alloy than has been used before. They’ve done some interesting things. I want to like what they’ve done. They overlook that some of us don’t want to have a product ‘sold’ by repeated statements that don’t, by themselves, have much to do with what matters in this application.

Are you a metallurgist with experience with maraging steels?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[kedminster]

So yield strength, doesn’t amount to much in this discussion. That’s the ‘big’ selling point of the Vox. It’s information, that to my pea-sized-brain doesn’t amount to anything other than very questionable marketing.

There’s no free lunch. Yield strength doesn’t inherently mean you get better abrasion resistance. The yield strength of stainless is more than adequate for building a superb can. The repeated use of phrasing about the marvels of this particular super-alloy, would seem to indicate that it’s something...vastly different than anything else on the market, yet Stellite is cobalt-chromium alloy, not to mention that Inconel is a nickel-chromium ‘super-alloy’ itself.


This is a different alloy than has been used before. They’ve done some interesting things. I want to like what they’ve done. They overlook that some of us don’t want to have a product ‘sold’ by repeated statements that don’t, by themselves, have much to do with what matters in this application.

Hi Dan! I think what you are asking about here is hot gas erosion (rather than abrasion). Hot gas erosion is where the bore of a silencer is damaged/worn by the action of the particles in the hot muzzle gas stream impinging on the baffle particularly in the area of the baffle bore.

We have handled that in a few ways. The 'lip' profile of our baffles is on the heavier/thicker side. This allows more energy to be absorbed in that small area and provides a wide cross section for heat conduction from the lip into the cone of the baffle. When a particle impacts the 'lip' some of it's kinetic energy is lost and converted to heat. if you don't have sufficient mass or conduction path the lip will overheat and the material will soften as it's temp rises. Fortunately C300 holds it's strength well at elevated temps but we still want to keep hot spots minimized in those critical areas.

We increase the surface hardness and erosion resistance by nitriding (ferritic nitrocarburizing) the Vox during heat treat martensitic aging. Nitriding is a diffusion process that changes the crystalline structure in a surface layer of the base metal and significantly increases it's hardness and resistance to erosion.

Cobalt chrome (stellite) and Inconel are fantastic materials; we are certainly not trying to play them down. They both have excellent hot gas erosion characteristics but also have some limitations (cost, tensile strength, manufacturing processes, etc.). When designing any product you look at all the design requirements/goals and try to find an optimum balance between often competing requirements. When we engineered the Vox we did an analysis that included both of all these materials and concluded that for our particular design we could engineer our best design from C300. We sought the best overall efficiency in terms of dB/oz. (mass efficiency ), dB/in. (length efficiency ) and dB/in^3 (volumetric efficiency) while also being robust enough to handle high firing schedules on high power cartridges without barrel length restrictions. Not gonna lie; that is not an easy engineering problem to solve! ;)

Hopefully this answers some of your questions about why we chose the path we did and explains that this was driven by engineering principles and not marketing. That is probably a good thing as we are happy to be engineering nerds and are really terrible when it comes to slick, polished marketing :)

If anyone else ever has any questions I will be glad to do my best to answer them. We love engaging with the community and are honored to be a small part of it. Thank you to all that have helped us get here!

[WobblyPossum]

The Vox definitely looks interesting. I’m a little confused about the mounting it though. I haven’t been able to find adapters for the different popular mounts (key mo, ASR, plan b, etc). These are possibly stupid questions but I have very little suppressor experience. Does the Vox mount to all of these by default? Can the Vox mount to a Surefire muzzle device?

[kedminster]

The Vox definitely looks interesting. I’m a little confused about the mounting it though. I haven’t been able to find adapters for the different popular mounts (key mo, ASR, plan b, etc). These are possibly stupid questions but I have very little suppressor experience. Does the Vox mount to all of these by default? Can the Vox mount to a Surefire muzzle device?

The Vox uses a 1.375x24 mount-to-silencer thread (Originally the Omega pattern) which has become the industry standard for interchangeable mounts in this class of cans. You can unscrew the direct thread mount that it comes with and install a DA Key-MO (P/N: DA428), a SiCo ASR Bravo, a Q Plan-B or any other number of mounts to adapt to your choice of compatible muzzle devices.

Unfortunately there is no adapter at present for mounting to Surefire muzzle devices. They have the IP locked up pretty tight so it is not possible for 3rd parties to make compatible mounts for other cans and there doesn't appear to be any interest from Surefire to make a mount adaptable to other silencers. I guess if someone is going to use Surefire muzzle devices that is going to limit them to only Surefire cans.

[WobblyPossum]

Thank you Karl.

[Mike C]

kedminster, is there enough interest for a pistol caliber can or a do all, pistol/rifle solution from Energetic that you all might consider producing something along those lines? If so what are the chances it would be plan B compatible? I am looking at the plan B very hard as it will work with every can I own minus the Rugged Micro 30. I am looking more at the Vox now as a possible replacement for my current cans because of this thread and one other on this board. The versatility of mounting options and bomb proof material section is pretty incredible. The wipes are icing on the cake. Seriously, not going to lie it would be freaking amazing to have 2-3 cans instead of 6 that can run the gamut and use the exact same mounting solution across the board. My OCD thanks you.

[kedminster]

So yield strength, doesn’t amount to much in this discussion. That’s the ‘big’ selling point of the Vox. It’s information, that to my pea-sized-brain doesn’t amount to anything other than very questionable marketing.

This is a different alloy than has been used before. They’ve done some interesting things. I want to like what they’ve done. They overlook that some of us don’t want to have a product ‘sold’ by repeated statements that don’t, by themselves, have much to do with what matters in this application.

Hi Dan, I realized I may have not fully responded to your question/concerns and wanted to specifically address why tensile yield strength is important.

Immediately after the 'uncorking event' of the bullet leaving the barrel the internal volume of the silencer is subjected to a transient high pressure pulse. The walls of the silencer have to contain this pressure without plastic deformation (yield). Hoop stress is the stress induced in the diameter of the tube and longitudinal stress happens from force applied by the gasses acting on the baffles and mount. We engineer a silencer (pressure vessel) to resist these stresses with 2 things: The tensile strength of the material and the amount (cross section) of material. There is a direct linear relationship between those 2 items. For a given force, if tensile strength goes up then the amount of material necessary goes down. In the case of silencers using higher tensile strength material means we can have thinner walls and enjoy all the benefits that come with this: Lower weight, better heat transfer (less delta T across the wall) and higher internal volume. It is also critical to have a material that maintains appropriate tensile strength at elevated temperature for hard use silencer designs and C300 offers this.

As taken from the Metallic Materials Properties Development and Standardization (MMPDS):

Yield Strength, room temp:

Aged C300 - 280ksi

17-4 H900 - 190ksi

Inconel 718- 150ksi

Cobalt 6B (Stellite)- 154ksi

This means that for a given stress level, we need 1.47x as much 17-4 or 1.86x as much Inconel 718 to build the same pressure vessel. This is a significant margin especially given very similar densities of materials.

Stellite is generally used only for baffles and not for the outer tubes as it is very expensive material and very hard to machine. In almost all silencer applications it is cast rather than machined.

Hope this helps clarify why our engineering analysis led us to use C300 and provides some reference to our statements about the material and it's qualifications as a material for suppressor applications.

[Dan_S]

LittleLebowski

My issue has been the fact tha claims are made about it that sound like snake oil, and then when I raise valid concerns, the best response has been ‘it’s awesome’. In an industry full of false claims, or at least highly misleading information, my lack of trust for people I don’t know doesn’t seem unwarranted.

The abrasion issue is why Titanium is generally not highly regarded for baffles subjected to high intensity firing schedules. At elevated temperature, it doesn’t withstand the ‘sandblasting’ as well as some other materials. Hence my point that yield strength, by itself, isn’t the sole measure of a metals value in a given application. 17-4 stainless withstands the hot gases and powder residues better than the ‘stronger’ titanium, and therefore has been given the nod over titanium by the industry in general.




kedminster

I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to reply here, as you have.

Can you share anything from testing for blast (or other) baffle erosion after any particular firing schedule (such as the SURG testing requirements)?

[kedminster]

kedminster, is there enough interest for a pistol caliber can or a do all, pistol/rifle solution from Energetic that you all might consider producing something along those lines? If so what are the chances it would be plan B compatible? I am looking at the plan B very hard as it will work with every can I own minus the Rugged Micro 30. I am looking more at the Vox now as a possible replacement for my current cans because of this thread and one other on this board. The versatility of mounting options and bomb proof material section is pretty incredible. The wipes are icing on the cake. Seriously, not going to lie it would be freaking amazing to have 2-3 cans instead of 6 that can run the gamut and use the exact same mounting solution across the board. My OCD thanks you.

Hi Mike! Yes, we do have several other silencers currently in development... I can't share details yet but lets just say we have very similar interests ;)

I definitely think the 'universal' 1.375x24 mount is a great way to go to allow shooters to choose their own mounting system and keep it consistent across multiple host weapons and cans. People really liked that we led that trend with the Vox and many other manufacturers have since adopted the same philosophy which is think is a good benefit for the silencer community.

BYOM (Bring your own mount) is a winner. Being locked into anything proprietary and exclusive sucks. People like options and flexibility!

[kedminster]

kedminster

I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to reply here. Can you clarify why the ‘yield’ strength of the C300 seems to be the primary marketing focus? It would seem to me, as I’ve said several times in this thread, that that particular information isn’t the primary concern in terms of the longevity of the baffles, or the tube, given that what is used as comparative material have proven themselves more than adequate for both applications.


I would be much interested in the results of a couple cans subjected to the SOCOM/SURG firing cycle, and then evaluated for blast baffle erosion. That would be more understandable for me, at least.


-edit- you beat me to it. Thanks![/QUOTE]

Dan: Glad you saw my response about why tensile strength matters; we must have both been thinking the same thing at the same time! :cool:

We have done a fair bit of erosion testing but have not formally adhered to the SOCOM/SURG firing cycle. I am a big fan of standards and their usefulness in comparing data so I am 110% with you on this one. We have cans out being evaluated by a gov't entity but I don't know when I will have that data back. Ideally I would like to find a (commercial) neutral 3rd party to conduct the SOCOM/SURG firing cycle tests and subsequent baffle evaluation rather than us do it. Just adds another layer of validity that way. Let me see who I can track down.

We do cover erosion as part of our lifetime guarantee. With our patent pending serial ID ring it is really simple and fast for us to re-core a Vox back to factory original.

[Mike C]

kedminster, thank you again for chiming in here. Great to have you on the board, it's awesome to hear things directly from the source. I am stoked you guys are moving in the direction you are. I think I will just hang tight and see what works its way out from your shops. I am looking forward to sending money in your direction and simplify things a bit logistically over here. Thanks again.

[Dan_S]

kedminster

Truly grateful for your willingness to address my concerns directly in your replies here. That you’ve taken the time to address my questions directly is more than I expected.

Once you would find a source to do the testing, is that information that could/would be made available for mere mortals such as myself? 😁

[LittleLebowski]

And now people see why I bought two Energetic cans :cool:

[kedminster]

kedminster

Truly grateful for your willingness to address my concerns directly in your replies here. That you’ve taken the time to address my questions directly is more than I expected.

Once you would find a source to do the testing, is that information that could/would be made available for mere mortals such as myself? 😁

My pleasure! We are a bunch of engineering nerds who are truly passionate about silencers and geek out about everything that does into them...material science, manufacturing, thermodynamics/heat transfer, etc. I am just excited when other people are actually interested to hear us geek out about these things :cool:

I will absolutely post any data/results we collect for any testing for public review. Transparency build trust. Data wants to be free. You guys are the most important people to have access to information so you can make informed decisions on what equipment you purchase and forums like this should be a FANTASTIC resource for that info. As you can tell from my previous posts my engineering approach to life extends to discussions and debates and I like to backup my points/claims with math, data and charts. That stuff is real to me and I think resonates with a lot of other folks too. Well, maybe except my wife :rolleyes: I still lose arguments with her no matter how much math I try to apply to the situation :p

[kedminster]

kedminster, thank you again for chiming in here. Great to have you on the board, it's awesome to hear things directly from the source. I am stoked you guys are moving in the direction you are. I think I will just hang tight and see what works its way out from your shops. I am looking forward to sending money in your direction and simplify things a bit logistically over here. Thanks again.

Thanks for being part of the discussion! And a huge shout out and thank you to LittleLebowski for the original post and tag that started this discussion. Definitely tag me anytime there are any questions. I will try to get on the forum more often.

[Grey]

And we finally all agree EA is awesome.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[LittleLebowski]

Let's go ahead and talk about the EA Lux precision rifle can (https://energeticarms.com/lux-titanium-rifle-silencer/). Take a gander at the weight:

Assembled Weight:
8.82oz (250 g) – Lux™ with Centrix™ mount

7.72oz (218 g) – Lux™ without mount


Their new precision mount (https://energeticarms.com/centrix-precision-mount-system/) is something so ingenious, you really have to see it to appreciate it.


The Centrix™ precision mount system was engineered to provide a simple, reliable mount for your silencer with precision repeatability. The system consists of a Centrix™ mount which is installed in the silencer and a Centrix™ brake which is secured to the barrel of the rifle. The mount attaches to the brake with a left handed stub-acme thread. this beefy thread profile resists accumulating debris and is protected from fouling and carbon lock by a preceding gas lock taper seal. Should the mount become stuck on the brake, the left handed thread ensures the brake will not come loose from the barrel. Additionally wrench flats are provided both on the mount and brake assembly allowing tools to be used to apply and oppose torque as necessary.

The mount, made of DLC coated titanium, is designed for the industry standard 1.375×24 thread pattern found on many silencers including the Lux™ and Vox™. The brake, nitrided 17-4 Stainless, has a standard 5/8-24 thread. The brake is self timing allowing it to be rotationally aligned and secured without sloppy washers used to time other muzzle devices.The brake is locked in place with a jam nut collar that locks against the barrel’s shoulder. A taper lock version will also be available for barrels with tapered rather than shouldered muzzles.

[Hansohn Brothers]

We have the waitlist open for both the 6.5 and 7.62 versions. Hopefully they’ll be in stock by May.

https://hansohnbrothers.com/shop/energetic-armament/silencers/30-caliber/energetic-lux/

[jc000]

Ok so Vox S and Turbo K2 purchases have been made. Now on to mounts.

I like the lighter and shorter Q form factor. I’m thinking of running the Q system on the .30 cal and swapping the YHM between a couple 5.56 rifles. To make this work I’d need to pick up a .30 cal Cherry Bomb, an Omega Plan B, and only a single YHM QD muzzle device (as the Turbo K2 comes with a brake). Am I missing anything?

[mtnbkr]

So...

Vox S unboxing party in about a year? :D

Chris

[LittleLebowski]

We have the waitlist open for both the 6.5 and 7.62 versions. Hopefully they’ll be in stock by May.

https://hansohnbrothers.com/shop/energetic-armament/silencers/30-caliber/energetic-lux/

Is there a video of the Centrix mount?

[Hansohn Brothers]

Is there a video of the Centrix mount?

I don’t but kedminster might.

[Grey]

Let's go ahead and talk about the EA Lux precision rifle can (https://energeticarms.com/lux-titanium-rifle-silencer/). Take a gander at the weight:

Assembled Weight:
8.82oz (250 g) – Lux™ with Centrix™ mount

7.72oz (218 g) – Lux™ without mount


Their new precision mount (https://energeticarms.com/centrix-precision-mount-system/) is something so ingenious, you really have to see it to appreciate it.

Really curious to see how they stack up against the TBAC cans most precision folks rave about.

[kedminster]

Is there a video of the Centrix mount?

Not yet... but there will be! :cool:

[LittleLebowski]

Not yet... but there will be! :cool:

Excellent, after seeing it in person; I'm of the opinion that you really need to get the word out on this.

[js475]

Bumping this thread because I'm interested in a Vox.

kedminster

How has the Vox held up with high volumes of fire? I'm impressed with the information about yield strength, but I haven't been able to find any concrete information about baffle erosion or wear and tear after long periods of hard use. Being that the Vox is so new, I'm a little apprehensive because I don't know how well the material will hold up after years and years of use vs something like a DA Sandman or even a 17-4 stainless steel silencer. Could you provide some info regarding any testing that EA or a third party has done in this department?

[kedminster]

Bumping this thread because I'm interested in a Vox.

kedminster

How has the Vox held up with high volumes of fire? I'm impressed with the information about yield strength, but I haven't been able to find any concrete information about baffle erosion or wear and tear after long periods of hard use. Being that the Vox is so new, I'm a little apprehensive because I don't know how well the material will hold up after years and years of use vs something like a DA Sandman or even a 17-4 stainless steel silencer. Could you provide some info regarding any testing that EA or a third party has done in this department?

I appreciate your interest in the Vox. The hot gas erosion wear characteristic of nitrided C300 is significantly greater than titanium and falls somewhere between 17-4SS and Inconel/Stellite. In designing the Vox we sought to optimize a balance of hard use and light weight. When you as about 'high volumes of fire' what are you considering for that? Cartridge, barrel length, fast semiauto/actual full auto? We have shot several prototype Vox silencers through 6x30rd (180rds total) 5.56 from a 10" barrel FA as fast as we could swap mags in an attempt to stress the baffles and welds. The baffles held up fine and we have used those for many demo shoots since then continuously racking up mileage and regularly inspecting them. We also have thousands of Vox out in the wild and have not yet had any reports or one come back due to excessive wear.

If you did end up eroding out the bore we would recore your silencer under warranty at no charge. Fortunately our patent pending serial ID ring makes that pretty simple and fast.

At the end of the day everything can be worn out with enough use or intent to run to destruction. If all you want to do is FA mag dumps in rapid succession or belt fed and just burn lots of ammo then maybe a heavier/larger inconel/Stellite can is a good value. If you want a lighter weight, yet still very robust, silencer then the Vox may be one to consider.

[js475]

I appreciate your interest in the Vox. The hot gas erosion wear characteristic of nitrided C300 is significantly greater than titanium and falls somewhere between 17-4SS and Inconel/Stellite. In designing the Vox we sought to optimize a balance of hard use and light weight. When you as about 'high volumes of fire' what are you considering for that? Cartridge, barrel length, fast semiauto/actual full auto? We have shot several prototype Vox silencers through 6x30rd (180rds total) 5.56 from a 10" barrel FA as fast as we could swap mags in an attempt to stress the baffles and welds. The baffles held up fine and we have used those for many demo shoots since then continuously racking up mileage and regularly inspecting them. We also have thousands of Vox out in the wild and have not yet had any reports or one come back due to excessive wear.

If you did end up eroding out the bore we would recore your silencer under warranty at no charge. Fortunately our patent pending serial ID ring makes that pretty simple and fast.

At the end of the day everything can be worn out with enough use or intent to run to destruction. If all you want to do is FA mag dumps in rapid succession or belt fed and just burn lots of ammo then maybe a heavier/larger inconel/Stellite can is a good value. If you want a lighter weight, yet still very robust, silencer then the Vox may be one to consider.

Thank you for your quick response! My anticipated use for this can will be short barreled 5.56, 300 blackout, and .308. High volume of fire for me would probably be 2-3 day carbine classes, occasional semi auto mag dumps, but unfortunately no full auto. I was just wondering about the longevity (i.e. 5, 10, 20 years from now) since C300 is new to the silencer world and silencers are basically a lifetime purchase. I was fairly sure your can would hold up over the years based on previous posts, but I just wanted to ask what kind of testing you've done to verify that.

Looks like there will be a Vox in my future. Maybe when that stimulus check comes....

[WobblyPossum]

So what is everyone’s preferred mounting system for the modular cans? Q, KeyMo, ASR, something else? My current thinking is that I’d like to end up with a 5.56 can, a .30 cal can, and potentially a .45 cal can if I get into the PCC thing.

[Hansohn Brothers]

I like the Griffin taper mounts or if you need a QD, the Dead Air and the YHM mounts are my choice.

[El Cid]

So what is everyone’s preferred mounting system for the modular cans? Q, KeyMo, ASR, something else? My current thinking is that I’d like to end up with a 5.56 can, a .30 cal can, and potentially a .45 cal can if I get into the PCC thing.

I’m using a KeyMo adapter for my SiCo Omega. It’s solid and easy to use but it adds quite a bit of length to the can. I’m interested in trying Q’s Plan B on my Hybrid since it’s already long enough.

[tlong17]

If I have a dead air flash hider will I need the key mo adapter as well to attach a vox s?

Stupid question

[LittleLebowski]

If I have a dead air flash hider will I need the key mo adapter as well to attach a vox s?

Stupid question

Yes. Check with Hansohn Brothers for the best price.

[WobblyPossum]

Has anyone tried a Vox K on an 11.5” 5.56 AR and a Sig Rattler .300 blk? The idea of a single suppressor instead of multiple ones has me thinking.

[LittleLebowski]

Has anyone tried a Vox K on an 11.5” 5.56 AR and a Sig Rattler .300 blk? The idea of a single suppressor instead of multiple ones has me thinking.

I’ve got a Vox K on an 8.5” .300BO. I’ve only shot it with subs. I would probably want the Vox S for 11.5” 556 duty and I’ve got both cans.

[WobblyPossum]

I would probably want the Vox S for 11.5” 556 duty and I’ve got both cans.

Why the S over the K for the short 5.56?

[LittleLebowski]

Why the S over the K for the short 5.56?

Short 5.56 is LOUD. Lot more pressure than even .300BO supers. Plus, the Vox S is light and strong so you’re not adding a lot more weight.

[WobblyPossum]

Short 5.56 is LOUD. Lot more pressure than even .300BO supers. Plus, the Vox S is light and strong so you’re not adding a lot more weight.

I wish I had more experience with suppressors. Are you talking about pressure in the chamber and from the muzzle or back pressure resulting in gas to the face? I’m more concerned with excessive gas to the face than pure decibel numbers. I don’t expect either can to be truly hearing safe with 5.56 out of a barrel that short.

[TGS]

Short 5.56 is LOUD.

If db reduction was the goal then the YHM Turbo K is significantly quieter than the Vox K on 5.56, and I can't imagine the Vox S would be appreciably better since it's still a .30cal can. Obviously doesn't fit the criteria for shooting on both a Rattler and 11.5" 5.56, though.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wY2jtCkjYQ

[WobblyPossum]

If db reduction was the goal then the YHM Turbo K is significantly quieter than the Vox K on 5.56, and I can't imagine the Vox S would be appreciably better since it's still a .30cal can. Obviously doesn't fit the criteria for shooting on both a Rattler and 11.5" 5.56, though.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wY2jtCkjYQ

I hadn’t even thought about the differences between dB levels at the muzzle and at the ear. Maybe I’ll just stick with the original plan of a Turbo for the short 5.56 and a Vox for larger caliber guns.

[TGS]

I hadn’t even thought about the differences between dB levels at the muzzle and at the ear. Maybe I’ll just stick with the original plan of a Turbo for the short 5.56 and a Vox for larger caliber guns.

I've always had a thing for 12.5" SBRs, and have a really bad thoughts in my head about building out a 12.5" upper just to put my AEM-5 on it.

The AEM-4 would work on the 11.5" if you want to flex on your SRT and their M4-2000 cans, btw.

:cool:

[LittleLebowski]

I wish I had more experience with suppressors. Are you talking about pressure in the chamber and from the muzzle or back pressure resulting in gas to the face? I’m more concerned with excessive gas to the face than pure decibel numbers. I don’t expect either can to be truly hearing safe with 5.56 out of a barrel that short.

Higher overall chamber pressure. Gas to the face can easily be alleviated with an adjustable gas block.

[WobblyPossum]

I've always had a thing for 12.5" SBRs, and have a really bad thoughts in my head about building out a 12.5" upper just to put my AEM-5 on it.

The AEM-4 would work on the 11.5" if you want to flex on your SRT and their M4-2000 cans, btw.

:cool:

Haha. I’m not hear to flex on anyone. Plus, on P-F, no matter how hard I flex I’ll still be one of the poors. The 12.5” guns are intriguing though. The velocity gains from and 11.5” barrel are impressive compared to the gains going from 10.5” to 11.5”. Sadly, NM law limits pistol barrels to 12” so I’d lose some of the legal benefits of an 11.5” AR pistol.


Higher overall chamber pressure. Gas to the face can easily be alleviated with an adjustable gas block.

I’m not interested in an aftermarket adjustable gas block. I view them as potential failure points I’d be adding to the gun.

[LittleLebowski]

I’m not interested in an aftermarket adjustable gas block. I view them as potential failure points I’d be adding to the gun.

You can just set it to barely moderate the gas and forget it. Or you can dick around with buffer weights and maybe install an AR gas vent (https://www.weaponoutfitters.com/ar-gas-vent.html). I've done all three; I prefer adjustable gas blocks; less noise, less recoil, easily tunable to ammo and cans.

[jc000]

FYI, out of jail about 4.5 months.

[mtnbkr]

FYI, out of jail about 4.5 months.

I hate you. I'm at 5 months and counting.

Did you use a trust or individual?

Chris

[jc000]

I hate you. I'm at 5 months and counting.

Did you use a trust or individual?

Chris

Cmon, I’m not a bad guy! I went individual. Are you on a trust?

ETA: the vendor told me they thought it may be closer to October so I was pleasantly surprised to say the least.

[WobblyPossum]

EuroDriver on M4C posted a photo of several Form4s he got approved within four months as well. I’m hoping this is part of a long term trend. ATF only cashed my check about a month ago. I’d be psyched to only have to wait another three months instead of another six.

[mtnbkr]

Cmon, I’m not a bad guy! I went individual. Are you on a trust?

ETA: the vendor told me they thought it may be closer to October so I was pleasantly surprised to say the least.

Trust, which is probably why it's taking longer. :rolleyes:

I'm hoping I have it in time for hunting season.

Chris

[RancidSumo]

I’ve got a Vox K on an 8.5” .300BO. I’ve only shot it with subs. I would probably want the Vox S for 11.5” 556 duty and I’ve got both cans.

Am I reading this right that you prefer the Vox K on the short .300BO? Or is that just where they landed? I'm looking to pick one up for a 7" rifle and trying to decide whether the better performance of the S is worth the extra length/weight.

[mtnbkr]

Woohoo! My Vox S is out of jail and in my safe! :cool:

Chris

[DamonL]

kedminster


Ideally I would like to find a (commercial) neutral 3rd party to conduct the SOCOM/SURG firing cycle tests and subsequent baffle evaluation rather than us do it. Just adds another layer of validity that way. Let me see who I can track down.



kedminster

This might be late, but these independent labs do ballistic testing. Not sure if they can help you but they test things like ballistic vests to see if they meet NIJ standards for different manufacturers. I was looking for HP White Labs info and learned they closed this year.

https://www.nts.com/location/belcamp-md/

https://www.nts.com/location/wichita-ks/

http://www.oregonbl.com/site/

[littlejerry]

I've had my Turbo k out of jail for almost 2 months now. So far, I love it! Good performance on a 16" rifle. The QD system works well.

My 16" rifle had a "medium" profile barrel, 2.5-10 NXS, and offset rds. With the can it's pushing 10lbs, which sucks for running and gunning. This has motivated me to build up a 12.5 for a lighter weight and more swingable stick.

The can disease has fully bit me though. Now I really want a lighter duty, larger bore and larger volume can. The Lux and Nomad TI have my attention. The Turbo K has convinced me I don't want to own a 16+oz can.

[HCM]

I've had my Turbo k out of jail for almost 2 months now. So far, I love it! Good performance on a 16" rifle. The QD system works well.

My 16" rifle had a "medium" profile barrel, 2.5-10 NXS, and offset rds. With the can it's pushing 10lbs, which sucks for running and gunning. This has motivated me to build up a 12.5 for a lighter weight and more swingable stick.

The can disease has fully bit me though. Now I really want a lighter duty, larger bore and larger volume can. The Lux and Nomad TI have my attention. The Turbo K has convinced me I don't want to own a 16+oz can.

I like my turbo k so much I just put another on lay away.

[littlejerry]

I like my turbo k so much I just put another on lay away.

Ha! I've actually considered picking up a standard Turbo so I'd have the option to swap short for long when needed.

But I also want a 6ARC or 6.5G hunting rig... Decisions decisions.

[HCM]

Ha! I've actually considered picking up a standard Turbo so I'd have the option to swap short for long when needed.

But I also want a 6ARC or 6.5G hunting rig... Decisions decisions.

Considered a resonator but Haven’t seen one in stock.