Les Bauer BOSS

[wvincent]

Anyone have one? Thoughts, good or bad.
For some reason this particular pistol makes me want to take it home to meet Mom.
Maybe it's just the hard chrome......, I just don't know.
I don't currently have a 5" all steel 1911, maybe that's just reason enough.

[Robert Mitchum]

Anyone have one? Thoughts, good or bad.
For some reason this particular pistol makes me want to take it home to meet Mom.
Maybe it's just the hard chrome......, I just don't know.
I don't currently have a 5" all steel 1911, maybe that's just reason enough.


Had 6 of his pistol at the same time (non where 9mm)
The Boss is just a Premier II with a fiber optic front sight & 2 tone finish.

Go for it ... he builds very tight and accurate pistols that function well in 45 Caliber.. never owned a 9mm 1911.
I had the 1 1/2" upgrade on all of mine and never had any problems.

They ran just as good as my Wilson Combats , Nighthawks , Ed Brown and Bob Marvel 1911's

[TC215]

I’ve had a couple Les Baers. Neither of them ran well. I also got to experience the legendary (terrible) customer service that Les is known for.

There are few things that look better than a well-worn blued Les Baer 1911, but I won’t have another.

There are also issues with the way they fit their barrels that will cause problems in higher round-count guns.

StraitR has the best looking LB Thunder Ranch I’ve seen, and I don’t believe it’s given him any problems.

[wvincent]

I’ve had a couple Les Baers. Neither of them ran well. I also got to experience the legendary (terrible) customer service that Les is known for.

There are few things that look better than a well-worn blued Les Baer 1911, but I won’t have another.

There are also issues with the way they fit their barrels that will cause problems in higher round-count guns.

StraitR has the best looking LB Thunder Ranch I’ve seen, and I don’t believe it’s given him any problems.

Yeah, I've heard that before. Not sure I want to deal with that if have one with "issues". That's the one thing that held me back from hitting the "buy it now" on Saturday night.

I also really have to wonder if the "tight fit" is really all that.

I realize that sometimes shit happens with pistols, and that they need to be repaired/fixed. I just don't want the dreaded phone call to be any worse than it has to be.

[HCM]

As noted, the Boss is just a PII with FO front sight, different finish and grips.

Les Baer 5” 45’s are accurate and generally run well. I have two, a fixed sight DLC coated and an adjustable sight version.

IME The older guns are a little better fitted than the newer IA made guns. They were great guns when they were in the niche currently occupied by Dan Wesson. Les has raised prices to match other semi custom guns without upping the fit and finish so I likely won’t buy a new one.

[Robert Mitchum]

As noted, the Boss is just a PII with FO front sight, different finish and grips.

Les Baer 5” 45’s are accurate and generally run well. I have two, a fixed sight DLC coated and an adjustable sight version.

IME The older guns are a little better fitted than the newer IA made guns. They were great guns when they were in the niche currently occupied by Dan Wesson. Les has raised prices to match other semi custom guns without upping the fit and finish so I likely won’t buy a new one.

Great point ..mine where made over 12 years ago.

[HCM]

Great point ..mine where made over 12 years ago.

1995 and 2000 here.

[Super77]

I had an early 2000s Premier II, pretty similar to the BOSS. It was a really nice pistol, very accurate, very tight, plenty reliable. I had a batch of out of spec reloads that it wouldn't chamber because there was a little bit of polymer jacked shaved up around the case mouth (my fault for making bad ammo). But other than that I never recall it malfunctioning and I was pretty negligent with cleaning.

[RevolverRob]

A Baer BOSS looks like it's running $2500'ish.

Alchemy Prime starts at $2595. For 95 bucks more you're going to get a hell of a lot better gun.

None of the bullshit fitting issues...Baer files the barrels so the fit is close, and then hammers the barrel into place. There is nothing about that, that God or most importantly JMB, intended. They set the feet up at almost 90-degree angles and it causes them to break off at higher mileage. The hood tends to get battered pretty hard as well. Sure the lockup is "tight", because they didn't fit it, they just hammered the square peg round'ish.

Alchemy actually fits their barrels (and every thing else) properly.

[wvincent]

A Baer BOSS looks like it's running $2500'ish.

Alchemy Prime starts at $2595. For 95 bucks more you're going to get a hell of a lot better gun.

None of the bullshit fitting issues...Baer files the barrels so the fit is close, and then hammers the barrel into place. There is nothing about that, that God or most importantly JMB, intended. They set the feet up at almost 90-degree angles and it causes them to break off at higher mileage. The hood tends to get battered pretty hard as well. Sure the lockup is "tight", because they didn't fit it, they just hammered the square peg round'ish.

Alchemy actually fits their barrels (and every thing else) properly.

Dude, get the fuck out my head, right now!!;)
I was just over on the Alchemy website as you were posting this.
I really, really like what they are offering.
2 things holding me up from ordering a Prime right now: 1. For some strange reason, I have it in my head that I want a Bomar type rear sight, and they don't offer it. 2. Trying to decide between FO front or gold bead.

I specced out a prime the way I want it, blued slide, hard chrome receiver, short trigger, and came out just a hair over 3 grand, which is still in the budget.

I came back to the 1911 type via the STI Staccato, which has really worked out so far.
This 5" all steel .45ACP, two tone is a want gun. I hit some personal and work goals last year, so this is my "bonus" to myself.

I'm not a collector or a "fondler", this is going to be shot and carried.

ETA: After a bit of searching, it appears that a lot of Baer's end up at Alchemy for "work". Thinking maybe I should just skip Baer's and go straight to Alchemy. Seems like a lot of bang for the buck.

[RevolverRob]

Dude, get the fuck out my head, right now!!;)
I was just over on the Alchemy website as you were posting this.
I really, really like what they are offering.
2 things holding me up from ordering a Prime right now: 1. For some strange reason, I have it in my head that I want a Bomar type rear sight, and they don't offer it. 2. Trying to decide between FO front or gold bead.

I specced out a prime the way I want it, blued slide, hard chrome receiver, short trigger, and came out just a hair over 3 grand, which is still in the budget.

I came back to the 1911 type via the STI Staccato, which has really worked out so far.
This 5" all steel .45ACP, two tone is a want gun. I hit some personal and work goals last year, so this is my "bonus" to myself.

I'm not a collector or a "fondler", this is going to be shot and carried.

The Bomar cut is a little more classic, but the Novak Adjustable is a better sight.

But TBH - unless you’re gonna run a lot 185 SWCs or 200-grainers over light loads of Bullseye, the stock fixed will be well regulated for 230-grain @ 850 fps which is what ball and HSTs are going to run. Regardless Alchemy uses Novak cuts, so you can virtually any sight setup you want. Including using the Triji HD from Ed Brown.

[Guinnessman]

Used Semi-Custom prices are the lowest I have ever seen, and it would be hard to purchase anything new in that category. Then again, if what you want isn’t available on the used market you have no choice.

Instead of buying a new Wilson CQB in 2014, I should have waited and bought a used CQB and saved $1000. Oh well, you live and you learn.😹

[Guinnessman]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/856964219

Here’s a start!

[wvincent]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/856964219

Here’s a start!

Put that on my watch list, we'll see where it goes.

[SecondsCount]

I've had two Baers and both ran well but they were 1999 and 2003 models. The TRS is still one of my favorite pistols.

The last 1911 I bought was a 5" 9mm Valor and while the Baer pistols were tighter, the Valor does everything just as well with a better finish.

[45dotACP]

A Baer BOSS looks like it's running $2500'ish.

Alchemy Prime starts at $2595. For 95 bucks more you're going to get a hell of a lot better gun.

None of the bullshit fitting issues...Baer files the barrels so the fit is close, and then hammers the barrel into place. There is nothing about that, that God or most importantly JMB, intended. They set the feet up at almost 90-degree angles and it causes them to break off at higher mileage. The hood tends to get battered pretty hard as well. Sure the lockup is "tight", because they didn't fit it, they just hammered the square peg round'ish.

Alchemy actually fits their barrels (and every thing else) properly.

Have you been on my computer bro?

I've been looking at spec'ing out a Prime in 9mm and here you come all enabling 'n shit

Knock that off you. [emoji23]

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[RevolverRob]

If you guys think I'm all up in your heads about Alchemy...don't look at my browser history on my laptop.

Or on my phone.

Or on my tablet.

Also, please ignore the fourteen open tabs showing various Alchemy builds...

[Robert Mitchum]

A friend of mine sells high end 1911's.
Alchemy

48851


Specifications:
Caliber: 9mm
Elite Gunsmith Crafted Government Size 1911
Classic Styling Cues
Hand Fit Frame and Slide designed by Master Gunsmith R. Schauland
ACW High Grip Ergonomics
ACW Extended Magwell
HRT Slide Stop
Reverse Crowned Barrel
Gold Bead Front Sight
3.5 to 4.0 lb. Trigger Pull
Front Strap and MSH Custom Bordered Checkering
Hand Beveled Edges for Comfort and Style



Specifications:
Caliber: .45 ACP
Elite Gunsmith Crafted Government Size 1911
Classic Styling Cues
Hand Fit Frame and Slide designed by Master Gunsmith R. Schauland
ACW High Grip Ergonomics
ACW Extended Magwell
HRT Slide Stop
Reverse Crowned Barrel
Gold Bead Front Sight
3.5 to 4.0 lb. Trigger Pull
Front Strap and MSH Custom Bordered Checkering
Hand Beveled Edges for Comfort and Style
Hand Fit Match Grade 5" barrel and bushing
Hand Polished Ignition Components
Hard Chrome Finish
Accuracy guarantee of 1.5 inch at 25 yards
Figured Walnut Smooth Grips
Omit the 'Alchemy Custom Weaponry' slide marking

48852
Hand Fit Match Grade 5" barrel and bushing
Hand Polished Ignition Components
Blue Finish

Omit the 'Alchemy Custom Weaponry' slide marking

[Robert Mitchum]

Specifications:
Elite Gunsmith Crafted Commander Size 1911 - 45ACP
Classic Styling Cues
Hand Fit Frame and Slide designed by Master Gunsmith R. Schauland
Ring Hammer
Tritium Front Sight
Ball Cut Slide
ACW High Grip Ergonomics
3.5 b. Trigger Pull
Front Strap and MSH Custom Bordered Checkering
Hand Beveled Edges for Comfort and Style
Hand Fit Match Grade 4.25” barrel and bushing
Hand Polished Ignition Components
Hand Polished Blued Finish
Accuracy guarantee of 1.5 inches at 25 yards
Frame and Slide Machined from Forged 4140 Carbon Steel
48853

Beveled Magazine Well
25 LPI Checkered Front Strap
25 LPI Checkered Flat Mainspring Housing
Tuned and polished extractor
Hardened Steel Pin Set
Forged Steel Slide Stop
Lowered ejection port
Extended Billet Steel Pinned Ejector
Polished feed ramp
Throated barrel
ACW Fixed Rear Sight with Serrated Blade, Lo Profile Tac Hook and .140” Wide U-Notch
Cylinder & Slide Single Side Thumb Safety
Traditional guide rod and cap
ACW Figured Walnut Grips
Two – 8 Round Blued Magazines with Steel Followers
Flush Cut Slide Stop
Flush Cut and Crowned Barrel
'Alchemy Custom Weaponry' Removed from slide

[wvincent]

A friend of mine sells high end 1911's.
Alchemy

48851


Specifications:
Caliber: 9mm
Elite Gunsmith Crafted Government Size 1911
Classic Styling Cues
Hand Fit Frame and Slide designed by Master Gunsmith R. Schauland
ACW High Grip Ergonomics
ACW Extended Magwell
HRT Slide Stop
Reverse Crowned Barrel
Gold Bead Front Sight
3.5 to 4.0 lb. Trigger Pull
Front Strap and MSH Custom Bordered Checkering
Hand Beveled Edges for Comfort and Style



Specifications:
Caliber: .45 ACP
Elite Gunsmith Crafted Government Size 1911
Classic Styling Cues
Hand Fit Frame and Slide designed by Master Gunsmith R. Schauland
ACW High Grip Ergonomics
ACW Extended Magwell
HRT Slide Stop
Reverse Crowned Barrel
Gold Bead Front Sight
3.5 to 4.0 lb. Trigger Pull
Front Strap and MSH Custom Bordered Checkering
Hand Beveled Edges for Comfort and Style
Hand Fit Match Grade 5" barrel and bushing
Hand Polished Ignition Components
Hard Chrome Finish
Accuracy guarantee of 1.5 inch at 25 yards
Figured Walnut Smooth Grips
Omit the 'Alchemy Custom Weaponry' slide marking

48852
Hand Fit Match Grade 5" barrel and bushing
Hand Polished Ignition Components
Blue Finish

Omit the 'Alchemy Custom Weaponry' slide marking

^^^^^ That right there, that is what I'm talking about.

[Robert Mitchum]

One more
Les Baer
Specifications:
Baer NM steel frame
NM slide and NM barrel with stainless bushing
No Front Cocking Serrations
No Markings on slide
1.5" Accuracy Guarantee Upgrade
2 Piece Magwell
Low mount LCB adjustable sight with hidden rear leaf
Green Fiber Optic Front Sight
Lowered and flared ejection port
Tuned and polished extractor
Baer extended ejector
Baer checkered slide stop
Baer speed trigger with crisp 4 lb pull
Baer deluxe Commander hammer and sear
Baer beavertail grip safety with pad
Flat serrated mainspring housing
Polished feed ramp and throated barrel
Baer Single Side Safety
High checkered front strap @ 30 lpi
Pistol tuned for total reliability
Baer Premium Checkered grips
Blued finish
(2) 8-round premium magazines
48854

[Kirk]

I'll never own another Les Baer because 3 of my 4 didn't run well beyond the break in period, I had a ASYM 9mm round basically explode on me, called Les Baer and I too had the customary bullshit customer service experience. Hes an asshole and I'll never buy another gun from him myself.

[Lefty Gunner]

Had a hard chromed Les Baer.... Remember, a fully hard chromed pistol does not break in like a steel or alloy pistol. It will stay as tight as it is on delivery for thousands of rounds!
Even using abrasive compounds to try and get some of the "too" tight build to wear in did not work on mine.

It had to be fully cleaned after each and every use or the friction from the tight action combined with minimal carbon buildup would cause slow cycling and failures to feed.....

Ruined 3 plastic bushing wrenches trying to field strip..... This was true even when moving the slide out of battery to get an "Easier" rotation of the bushing.

Very accurate and able to run at least 2-4 boxes of typical range ammo (One full IDPA Match). Try to run a second match the next week without cleaning and you will learn FTF malfunction drills.

Please believe me as I am just advising caution regarding a very tight build with hard chrome added after fitting.

[Nick B]

OP what state are you in ?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I have a Baer UTC that runs really well, but I don't recommend them just because I know enough people who've had a hard time with the customer service side that I don't want to set anyone up for headaches.

But I will say that my UTC runs like a top and I think it helped get me the editor job at the magazine I used to work for, because I was at the range one day with the publisher shortly after I'd met him and he had, along with a kel-tec sub-2k, several tester 1911s and asked for my opinion. I picked up one, shot a few mags through it, and said, "that one's okay, not great." I picked up another and shot a few mags and said "that one's pretty good."

He asked what I was looking at to tell the difference, and I pulled the UTC out of the 5-shot SME in my belt and shot his walking target that he'd been using the Sub-2K on. He'd put it out around 50 yards and I think it was maybe 3-4" steel plates on a caltrop-shaped kind of thing. I walked it around at 50, 8 for 8 out of my Baer, no problem. I think that moment was the moment that cemented me in his mind as a serious player and I think he offered me the job shortly afterwards.

[wvincent]

OP what state are you in ?

South Dakota

[Sigfan26]

I'll never own another Les Baer because 3 of my 4 didn't run well beyond the break in period, I had a ASYM 9mm round basically explode on me, called Les Baer and I too had the customary bullshit customer service experience. Hes an asshole and I'll never buy another gun from him myself.

Customer special ordered an SRP from my store and 250 rounds in , the rear sight was almost falling out. We guarantee what we sell, so we asked for a return label (on a gun we RECEIVED 8 days prior)... Were told “We don’t do that” and (after back and forth) ate the 2nd day shipping costs. Repair was free, but we ate the $55 in shipping. The fact that they won’t eat shipping when the screw up was a deal breaker. The fact that it was on a $3,000 Pistol is even more boggling (and the customer flat out said “I’m never buying one of these again”)


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[Nick B]

Just looked at my logbook . Premier ll with 1916 rounds and a Boss with 3215 rounds . Never a malfunction.
One squib that was just a primer, no powder . Bullet just fell out when I tipped the barrel up and rapped the butt with my hand .

[wvincent]

I have a Baer UTC that runs really well, but I don't recommend them just because I know enough people who've had a hard time with the customer service side that I don't want to set anyone up for headaches.

But I will say that my UTC runs like a top and I think it helped get me the editor job at the magazine I used to work for, because I was at the range one day with the publisher shortly after I'd met him and he had, along with a kel-tec sub-2k, several tester 1911s and asked for my opinion. I picked up one, shot a few mags through it, and said, "that one's okay, not great." I picked up another and shot a few mags and said "that one's pretty good."

He asked what I was looking at to tell the difference, and I pulled the UTC out of the 5-shot SME in my belt and shot his walking target that he'd been using the Sub-2K on. He'd put it out around 50 yards and I think it was maybe 3-4" steel plates on a caltrop-shaped kind of thing. I walked it around at 50, 8 for 8 out of my Baer, no problem. I think that moment was the moment that cemented me in his mind as a serious player and I think he offered me the job shortly afterwards.

Heck of a job interview.
I think we can change this thread to "How wvincent spent all day on the Alchemy website and didn't really accomplish anything in the office"
The upside is I came out at $3020.00 for exactly what I wanted in a classically styled 1911.
My only sticking points now are gold bead or FO on the front, and classic or HRT cut slide stop.
Get those two issues figured out, and I will be paying my deposit.

[sikiguya]

I'll never own another Les Baer because 3 of my 4 didn't run well beyond the break in period, I had a ASYM 9mm round basically explode on me, called Les Baer and I too had the customary bullshit customer service experience. Hes an asshole and I'll never buy another gun from him myself.

Holy crap. Kirk is so laid back...if he got that pissed...that must have been one shitty customer service experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Heck of a job interview.
I think we can change this thread to "How wvincent spent all day on the Alchemy website and didn't really accomplish anything in the office"
The upside is I came out at $3020.00 for exactly what I wanted in a classically styled 1911.
My only sticking points now are gold bead or FO on the front, and classic or HRT cut slide stop.
Get those two issues figured out, and I will be paying my deposit.

Given the option, I will take a countersunk slide stop, even though I don't believe the standard design has ever caused me a problem. I have felt them move before but I don't put my finger along the frame anymore so I don't think I'm at risk of issues... but if I have the option for the countersink I'll take it.

People with more credibility than me swear by FO front sights and don't have any problems with them.

I have personally seen about half a dozen launch downrange and won't use them on anything I expect to rely on.

In a course I remember Ken Hackathon saying that the Gold bead was his personal favourite front sight. I have never tried one but good enough for the chief, good enough for me.

[theJanitor]

Heck of a job interview.
I think we can change this thread to "How wvincent spent all day on the Alchemy website and didn't really accomplish anything in the office"
The upside is I came out at $3020.00 for exactly what I wanted in a classically styled 1911.
My only sticking points now are gold bead or FO on the front, and classic or HRT cut slide stop.
Get those two issues figured out, and I will be paying my deposit.

$3k for what you want, in the 1911 world is a total win, FYI

eta: I just got the preliminary quote for my next build, and the smith told me to set aside at least $3200 for parts and labor. It will be a no-frills sleeper. The base pistol is not included

[wvincent]

$3k for what you want, in the 1911 world is a total win, FYI

eta: I just got the preliminary quote for my next build, and the smith told me to set aside at least $3200 for parts and labor. It will be a no-frills sleeper. The base pistol is not included

I could keep it down below $3000.00 if I don't take the hard chrome on the receiver. But, I'm a sucker for two tone 1911's, plus in my mind there may be some benefit to having that hard chrome vs bluing up against my sweaty body, not to mention showing less holster wear. I wanted the bluing on the slide because it will look decent after getting some wear on, and bluing is easily redone.

This is just a minimalist carry gun for me, with the reliability package built in. It's so retro, they don't even scallop the ejection port, which actually looks really nice to my eye.

You've done quite a few of these, is there anything of import that I am missing?

[RevolverRob]

Heck of a job interview.
I think we can change this thread to "How wvincent spent all day on the Alchemy website and didn't really accomplish anything in the office"
The upside is I came out at $3020.00 for exactly what I wanted in a classically styled 1911.
My only sticking points now are gold bead or FO on the front, and classic or HRT cut slide stop.
Get those two issues figured out, and I will be paying my deposit.

Gold bead
HRT Cut
-

I’ll be joining you on the deposit list soon. 45dotACP should also join us. And 2020 can be the year P-F went Prime.

[RevolverRob]

Given the option, I will take a countersunk slide stop, even though I don't believe the standard design has ever caused me a problem. I have felt them move before but I don't put my finger along the frame anymore so I don't think I'm at risk of issues... but if I have the option for the countersink I'll take it.
.

Ejection port?

I’ve almost fully retrained myself to have that high, hard, finger register. But I occasionally catch myself on the slide stop.

[45dotACP]

A classically styled 1911 government model with walnut grips is real hard to beat.

And I have kinda been wanting to get another 5" 9mm

I'll need to get a few drinks in me and get back to you all.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[wvincent]

Gold bead
HRT Cut
-

I’ll be joining you on the deposit list soon. 45dotACP should also join us. And 2020 can be the year P-F went Prime.

45dotACP, RevolverRob
48879

[theJanitor]

But, I'm a sucker for two tone 1911's, plus in my mind there may be some benefit to having that hard chrome vs bluing up against my sweaty body, not to mention showing less holster wear. I wanted the bluing on the slide because it will look decent after getting some wear on, and bluing is easily redone.

You've done quite a few of these, is there anything of import that I am missing?

Go all blue, and when you know everything is right, and you’ve worn it enough, send it out for chrome. This does three things. First it ensures the gun is right, BEFORE putting on a finish that’s difficult to reverse. Second, it spreads out the cost over a few years. Thirdly, you essentially get a new gun for a few hundred bucks, down the road

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?40672-What-s-Easier-Refinishing-1911-Stainless-Slide-or-Blue-Steel-Frame&p=992027&viewfull=1#post992027

[wvincent]

Go all blue, and when you know everything is right, and you’ve worn it enough, send it out for chrome. This does three things. First it ensures the gun is right, BEFORE putting on a finish that’s difficult to reverse. Second, it spreads out the cost over a few years. Thirdly, you essentially get a new gun for a few hundred bucks, down the road

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?40672-What-s-Easier-Refinishing-1911-Stainless-Slide-or-Blue-Steel-Frame&p=992027&viewfull=1#post992027

Ahhhhhh, yep!
Thank you so very much. I honestly never even looked at it that way.
And just like that, $2790.00

[45dotACP]

Go all blue, and when you know everything is right, and you’ve worn it enough, send it out for chrome. This does three things. First it ensures the gun is right, BEFORE putting on a finish that’s difficult to reverse. Second, it spreads out the cost over a few years. Thirdly, you essentially get a new gun for a few hundred bucks, down the road

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?40672-What-s-Easier-Refinishing-1911-Stainless-Slide-or-Blue-Steel-Frame&p=992027&viewfull=1#post992027I liked this post...but I also sorta hated it.

Dude, my wallet is gonna hate you tomorrow.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[wvincent]

Given the option, I will take a countersunk slide stop, even though I don't believe the standard design has ever caused me a problem. I have felt them move before but I don't put my finger along the frame anymore so I don't think I'm at risk of issues... but if I have the option for the countersink I'll take it.

People with more credibility than me swear by FO front sights and don't have any problems with them.

I have personally seen about half a dozen launch downrange and won't use them on anything I expect to rely on.

In a course I remember Ken Hackathon saying that the Gold bead was his personal favourite front sight. I have never tried one but good enough for the chief, good enough for me.

I had my doubt's about FO when I grabbed that Staccato. Actually, first time ever I haven't immediately switched to tritium. I actually kind of like the performance of them. Need to get a couple more thousand rounds through it before I'm totally sold.

I am going to go gold bead on this though, give me a point of comparison. Plus, Ken Hackathon is usually square on on those things.

Some one asked me why I didn't just buy a Staccato P Duo and put on a red dot, best answer I had was "this isn't that kind of pistol, this is my old man gun"

[theJanitor]

I don’t spec countersinking the frame for the slide stop anymore. I don’t think making the frame thinner where it supports the pin is worth it

[45dotACP]

Well then...there goes the order and now for the wait.

Not for a Baer. For an Alchemy Prime in 9mm, government model, gold bead sight and blued.

The highest form of enabling y'all.


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[TC215]

This is the best way this thread could have gone.

[RevolverRob]

Well then...there goes the order and now for the wait.

Not for a Baer. For an Alchemy Prime in 9mm, government model, gold bead sight and blued.

The highest form of enabling y'all.


Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

https://media.giphy.com/media/26AHLBZUC1n53ozi8/giphy.gif


This is the best way this thread could have gone.

Right?

[LockedBreech]

I’ve had a couple Les Baers. Neither of them ran well. I also got to experience the legendary (terrible) customer service that Les is known for.



I'll be honest, that alone kills it for me. If I'm spending multiple thousands on a gun, on ANY product, I should be treated like a customer who spent multiple thousands on a gun. I won't buy Ed Brown for that same reputation. I don't find it charming, I don't find it cute, I don't find it gives the gun more "street cred" none of that. If Wilson can give good customer service so can the others.


Well then...there goes the order and now for the wait.

Not for a Baer. For an Alchemy Prime in 9mm, government model, gold bead sight and blued.

The highest form of enabling y'all.


Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

We are very proud of you.

[StraitR]

I’ve had a couple Les Baers. Neither of them ran well. I also got to experience the legendary (terrible) customer service that Les is known for.

There are few things that look better than a well-worn blued Les Baer 1911, but I won’t have another.

There are also issues with the way they fit their barrels that will cause problems in higher round-count guns.

@StraitR (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=3620) has the best looking LB Thunder Ranch I’ve seen, and I don’t believe it’s given him any problems.

I didn't read the entire thread, so pardon me if I repeat anything that's already been said.

Due to work and family priorities, I've been a pretty low round count shooter for the better part of four years now. My TRS, while being basically problem free, has no more than 500rds (All S&B45) through it. As such, I wouldn't tell anyone looking for a serious use pistol to use my singular copy as a valuable data point. For funzies, absolutely, it's been fun, and oozes with the passion stuff.

The one and only issue I had was an instance of early lock back, with ammo still in the mag. This happened on the second round in the mag, during a 2-gun match, and I attribute it to poor grip (a result of rushing, attempting make up time, a stupid mistake).

Baer's look great, are generally well built, and the TRS was iconic during my youth (by youth, I mean my 20's). Combined with being a sucker for a blued Govt 45, I had to have one (emotion). That being said, I've all but lost the last bit of emotional attachment to any gun at this point. Matter of fact, I've gone back to all practical plastic, and will be getting rid of my last two 1911's.

I've said for the last couple years that Les Baer and Dan Wesson are the sweet spots for 1911's. I still believe that to a degree, but now that Baer has raised their prices a couple times, I think Alchemy represents a better value if purchasing "traditional" new.

[TC215]

I'll be honest, that alone kills it for me. If I'm spending multiple thousands on a gun, on ANY product, I should be treated like a customer who spent multiple thousands on a gun. I won't buy Ed Brown for that same reputation. I don't find it charming, I don't find it cute, I don't find it gives the gun more "street cred" none of that. If Wilson can give good customer service so can the others.

I've been around Les a couple times since my "customer service experience" with him. He's a dickhead, for sure. Both times, my friends have attempted to get me fired up enough about the debacle with my gun to go try to fight him. Which, of course, is what friends are for.

[wvincent]

I've been around Les a couple times since my "customer service experience" with him. He's a dickhead, for sure. Both times, my friends have attempted to get me fired up enough about the debacle with my gun to go try to fight him. Which, of course, is what friends are for.

I deal with enough dickheads on a regular basis, I don't need to start paying for the experience.

ETA: I like your friends, we could hang out.

[StraitR]

I'll be honest, that alone kills it for me. If I'm spending multiple thousands on a gun, on ANY product, I should be treated like a customer who spent multiple thousands on a gun. I won't buy Ed Brown for that same reputation. I don't find it charming, I don't find it cute, I don't find it gives the gun more "street cred" none of that. If Wilson can give good customer service so can the others.

In all my years of gun hobby-ing, I've yet to find a mainstream company that was infallible, either in product and/or customer service. This includes high-end semi-custom 1911 makers.

I believe there is a lot of validation seeking when it comes to semi-custom 1911's*, and a lot of people who would rather look past their actual mediocre experiences to project a sense of wisdom and money-well-spent. I've been both a victim and cheerleader.

*ETA: A Generalization that can be found on any 1911-centric board. People are relatively transparent about issues here.

[theJanitor]

In all my years of gun hobby-ing, I've yet to find a mainstream company that was infallible, either in product and/or customer service. This includes high-end semi-custom 1911 makers.

I believe there is a lot of validation seeking when it comes to semi-custom 1911's, and a lot of people who would rather look past their actual mediocre experiences to project a sense of wisdom and money-well-spent. I've been both a victim and cheerleader.

I have also recommended smiths who, after servicing me, let their customer service slip. It's been embarrassing and frustrating to send a friend to a closet-asshole.

And it doesn't stop with 1911 makers. A couple years ago, I was having dinner with a buddy, and he got a call from his Ferrari dealership in LA. A warning light had flashed on his 458(?) and the shop said a relay on the transmission was faulty. The repair would be $25K, as Ferrari doesn't sell the part, they sell the trans assembly. After a bit of complaining, my buddy authorized the work, hung up, and told me the service writer said, "What do you expect, you bought a Ferrari. And you should be happy, for this model, we only have to order HALF the transmission."

Some people pay ALOT to be treated like shit

[JonInWA]

I appreciate a quality 1911 (or, for that matter, any quality gun...). In my opinion, the semi-custom 1911 world has spun out of control, especially pricing-wise in relation to discernible value (at least to me). I'm basically seeing a $1K+ rise in price over a 10 year period for the same gun-and often the current ones are decontented.

I'm not against profit, or how anyone else spends their discretionary income. But you better be buying these things for the enjoyment and appreciation of them, because I darned don't see much viable appreciable investment potential out of them. As others have mentioned (and I have personally empirically experienced) in this thread and elsewhere, the semi-custom 1911 resale market is pretty soft. That's a heck of a clue. The rise of 1911 semi-bespoke pricing is a great example of style (and especially marketing) over substance, in my opinion. Adding fuel to the fire are some very credible 1911 users who have attached their name to some of the blinged out/inessential feature-laden pricy semi-bespoke offerings, apparently forgetting that it's more the Indian than the arrow-and arguably the simpler and less bejeweled the arrow, the better the value, if not the overall performance (or perhaps there's a realization that there's simply less personal and/or corporate profit in remaining true to previously espoused and executed values). (And I need to say that a clear exception to this is what Jason Burton did for Todd Green-in that gun, every feature was in fact properly weighed against empirical experience and had a quantifiable justified value).

Then there's the arrogance and apparent outright incompetence of some of the manufacturers. For that matter there's the issue as to what exactly is a manufacturer...I've long suspected that there are very few actual manufacturers, and many cottage industry parts assemblers and tuners (albeit with superb marketing assistance and positioning). And there should be a special place in perdition for manufacturers who are either fundamentally unable to adequately support their efforts that require justified reasonable after-sale adjustments/repairs/replacement-ostensibly part of what the semi-bespoke experience offers is a higher quality firearm, with higher quality components and assembly attention, and a higher quality performance and experience. If that can't be provided, then there are probably numerous third-world countries where they'd be welcomed with open arms and preferential treatment-and they can make whatever they want, albeit at a market-sensitive price accordingly that attaches to such a market...

Okay, rant off. My thoughts on the state of the 1911 are this: For a new gun, Dan Wesson and Alchemy seem to offer a decent value at a relatively decent price (at least relative to the other semi-custom manufacturers). For entry-level 1911s, Colt, Ruger and Springfield Arms-but I'm frankly unsure exactly what constitutes a Colt 1911 these days-I get the impression that they're also more of a parts assembler-but I'd love to be proven wrong on that.

For pretty much anything else, caveat emptor. Take a hard, hard look why you're going down the 1911 path. If it's because of the merits of the single action and/or historic atmosphere that you appreciate, great.

If you want a hard use, accurate, reliable, low maintenance pistol for duty (and most other venues), I think you need to be able to quantify the merits of spending literally thousands more than say, a HK, Glock, Beretta et al. And if you can't objectively do so, but still want a 1911 "just because," that's perfectly fine too. I'd suggest, however, that you be be realistic in your outlook and perspective-and expectations.

With all that said, there is truly can be something special about a 1911-platform pistol that's well designed, well executed, and well supported after you take possession. I appreciate mine-but I'm far more likely to be carrying, and depending on something else...

Best, Jon

[HCM]

I had my doubt's about FO when I grabbed that Staccato. Actually, first time ever I haven't immediately switched to tritium. I actually kind of like the performance of them. Need to get a couple more thousand rounds through it before I'm totally sold.

I am going to go gold bead on this though, give me a point of comparison. Plus, Ken Hackathon is usually square on on those things.

Some one asked me why I didn't just buy a Staccato P Duo and put on a red dot, best answer I had was "this isn't that kind of pistol, this is my old man gun"

My old man gun will absolutely have a red dot on it.

[KevH]

I'm a 1911-loving-fool and I'm not a fan of Les Baer. His frames and slides are a slightly different spec than everyone else and in my humble opinion they're fit extremely tight just so they can say they're fit extremely tight. I particularly don't like his fitting of the barrel which does not lend itself to long-term use. I also have heard from many folks that his customer service sucks. I would recommend spending money elsewhere.

For the "factory custom" guns I generally prefer Wilson Combat, although they are not without fault (though neither are the SACS Springfield Professional which gets lauded much on the internet).

Of the 30+ 1911's I've owned one of my most accurate is a late 1990's pre-Series II Kimber that Dave Berryhill worked on that still has the factory barrel and no slide/frame fitting beyond the factory. It's stupid accurate and soft shooting. It's a $600 gun with about $1k in custom work by a guy that really understood what made these guns work well. It's a gun that was made to feed anything and just plain function. I think most guns being built right now are meant to be photographed and posted on Instagram and featured in artisanal Youtube videos. The problem is guys with with the knowledge Mr. Berryhill had are few and far between.

I'd love to take a look at one of the Alchemy guns, but for the money there are others out there that grab my attention more.

[ECVMatt]

I bought a Premier II in the early 2000's. I saved for quite a while to buy that gun and it represented a lot of hard work and overtime on my part. Shortly after getting it the hammer started to follow the slide forward and sometimes it would go full auto. If it came with a selector to make that happen, well then I would have been pretty stoked, but since it happened randomly it was disconcerting to say the least. I contacted LB and they treated me like a jerk. They implied that I was not qualified to operate the gun correctly. I had to pay to send it to them to get it fixed. When it returned I sold it and was done with them.

I have since gone to the SA TRP, probably not what the OP is looking for, and have never had another problem. I am out of the high-end 1911 game, but my friends still like them. I have recently shot their Nighthawks and a very nice Wilson Combat. They were all flawless and a much better product than my ill-fated Premier II.

I guess that I am I still a bit put off by that experience, but my wife tells me that my strongest quality is harboring a grudge.

Let us know what you end up with.

[HCM]

I bought a Premier II in the early 2000's. I saved for quite a while to buy that gun and it represented a lot of hard work and overtime on my part. Shortly after getting it the hammer started to follow the slide forward and sometimes it would go full auto. If it came with a selector to make that happen, well then I would have been pretty stoked, but since it happened randomly it was disconcerting to say the least. I contacted LB and they treated me like a jerk. They implied that I was not qualified to operate the gun correctly. I had to pay to send it to them to get it fixed. When it returned I sold it and was done with them.

I have since gone to the SA TRP, probably not what the OP is looking for, and have never had another problem. I am out of the high-end 1911 game, but my friends still like them. I have recently shot their Nighthawks and a very nice Wilson Combat. They were all flawless and a much better product than my ill-fated Premier II.

I guess that I am I still a bit put off by that experience, but my wife tells me that my strongest quality is harboring a grudge.

Let us know what you end up with.

IME SA’s are both the best of gun’s and the worst of guns. Problem is you don’t know ahead of time what you are going to get. My current favorite 1911 .45 is a TRP Operator with some work by Teddy Jacobson Actions by T but SA has also been the source of some of my worst 1911 experiences.

Back in the day Baer was the only “intermediate” option between Colt/SA and Wilson / ed brown. Now that LB has priced themselves out of that market and Dan Wesson has stepped in to fill the void I can’t see a reason to buy a new one, which is what I don’t own 9mm PII.

For $2500iah I would rather have an alchemy or a used Wilson, SA PRO etc.

[gato naranja]

"this isn't that kind of pistol, this is my old man gun"

In my experience, 1911s tended to be guns that older men cared about.

When my dad passed away a few years ago, that made me the "old man" in more than just age. Not saying there was or wasn't a causal relationship, but a couple weeks after his funeral, I impulse bought something I never thought I would actually spend money on: a new 1911. I didn't spend a lot - (it was a smokin' deal on a SA Range Officer Operator), and I fudged a bit on caliber (9mm) - but in the time since, I have referred to it often as my "old guy gun."

I guess there really is such a thing.

[TOTS]

A friend of mine sells high end 1911's.
Alchemy

48851



Man, I love you guy’s style! This reminds me of my “Poor man’s” Prime: DW Valor in polished blue. Wearing G-10 for “go” but I have a set of walnut shoes for “show”.

48924

[LockedBreech]

I appreciate a quality 1911 (or, for that matter, any quality gun...). In my opinion, the semi-custom 1911 world has spun out of control, especially pricing-wise in relation to discernible value (at least to me). I'm basically seeing a $1K+ rise in price over a 10 year period for the same gun-and often the current ones are decontented.

I'm not against profit, or how anyone else spends their discretionary income. But you better be buying these things for the enjoyment and appreciation of them, because I darned don't see much viable appreciable investment potential out of them. As others have mentioned (and I have personally empirically experienced) in this thread and elsewhere, the semi-custom 1911 resale market is pretty soft. That's a heck of a clue. The rise of 1911 semi-bespoke pricing is a great example of style (and especially marketing) over substance, in my opinion. Adding fuel to the fire are some very credible 1911 users who have attached their name to some of the blinged out/inessential feature-laden pricy semi-bespoke offerings, apparently forgetting that it's more the Indian than the arrow-and arguably the simpler and less bejeweled the arrow, the better the value, if not the overall performance (or perhaps there's a realization that there's simply less personal and/or corporate profit in remaining true to previously espoused and executed values). (And I need to say that a clear exception to this is what Jason Burton did for Todd Green-in that gun, every feature was in fact properly weighed against empirical experience and had a quantifiable justified value).

Then there's the arrogance and apparent outright incompetence of some of the manufacturers. For that matter there's the issue as to what exactly is a manufacturer...I've long suspected that there are very few actual manufacturers, and many cottage industry parts assemblers and tuners (albeit with superb marketing assistance and positioning). And there should be a special place in perdition for manufacturers who are either fundamentally unable to adequately support their efforts that require justified reasonable after-sale adjustments/repairs/replacement-ostensibly part of what the semi-bespoke experience offers is a higher quality firearm, with higher quality components and assembly attention, and a higher quality performance and experience. If that can't be provided, then there are probably numerous third-world countries where they'd be welcomed with open arms and preferential treatment-and they can make whatever they want, albeit at a market-sensitive price accordingly that attaches to such a market...

Okay, rant off. My thoughts on the state of the 1911 are this: For a new gun, Dan Wesson and Alchemy seem to offer a decent value at a relatively decent price (at least relative to the other semi-custom manufacturers). For entry-level 1911s, Colt, Ruger and Springfield Arms-but I'm frankly unsure exactly what constitutes a Colt 1911 these days-I get the impression that they're also more of a parts assembler-but I'd love to be proven wrong on that.

For pretty much anything else, caveat emptor. Take a hard, hard look why you're going down the 1911 path. If it's because of the merits of the single action and/or historic atmosphere that you appreciate, great.

If you want a hard use, accurate, reliable, low maintenance pistol for duty (and most other venues), I think you need to be able to quantify the merits of spending literally thousands more than say, a HK, Glock, Beretta et al. And if you can't objectively do so, but still want a 1911 "just because," that's perfectly fine too. I'd suggest, however, that you be be realistic in your outlook and perspective-and expectations.

With all that said, there is truly can be something special about a 1911-platform pistol that's well designed, well executed, and well supported after you take possession. I appreciate mine-but I'm far more likely to be carrying, and depending on something else...

Best, Jon

This is a great post. I work with 4-5 different LE agencies on a regular basis and there are two types of 1911-carriers

1.) Older, seasoned cops with plainclothes and/or SWAT/SORT experience who know and maintain their weapon extremely well, like an older investigator here who carries a custom 1911 and goes to professional pistol and rifle training classes out of his own pocket twice a year and has been in 2-3 OISs over his career. I would NOT want to get in a gunfight against that guy.

2.) Cops that carry 1911s because they look badass, including a pair who carry Kimbers as duty arms (yikes). Who would undoubtedly be profoundly better served by a G17/19.

I think honesty about your level of proficiency and intended use is incredibly important. It's why I switched to striker systems across the board for all serious work/home defense and carry/travel roles. I love my 92s and Colt 1911 at the range, but I don't have the time to stay proficient in multiple systems. By every "serious" gun being a Glock or M2.0, I am ready for the same type of trigger press, break, and reset across the board. Is it less "cool" - absolutely. I'd love to carry my stainless Colt on my hip. Would be badass. But carrying a gun isn't about looking or feeling badass, it's choosing the best tool for a very serious job. That's a tough realization to make and a lot of carriers - LE and non-LE alike - aren't ready for it.

[theJanitor]

You guys make alot of great points about the realities of pistol selection. But the OP wasn't asking about different kinds of pistols, he was asking about options for a 1911. I'll just assume he's thought about why he wants (another?) one, and offer my opinion in that context.

[LockedBreech]

You guys make alot of great points about the realities of pistol selection. But the OP wasn't asking about different kinds of pistols, he was asking about options for a 1911. I'll just assume he's thought about why he wants (another?) one, and offer my opinion in that context.

Yeah, fair, sorry for drifting.

I think going with Alchemy over Baer was a great choice and now I'll hush.

[JonInWA]

You guys make alot of great points about the realities of pistol selection. But the OP wasn't asking about different kinds of pistols, he was asking about options for a 1911. I'll just assume he's thought about why he wants (another?) one, and offer my opinion in that context.

My answer operated under the assumption that the OP's initial query "Anyone have one? Thoughts, good or bad." was a pretty broad-gauged question, and answered accordingly.

Best, Jon

[StraitR]

My answer operated under the assumption that the OP's initial query "Anyone have one? Thoughts, good or bad." was a pretty broad-gauged question, and answered accordingly.

Best, Jon


I believe the OP's query was specific to the Les Baer BOSS (thread title). ;)

[wvincent]

My old man gun will absolutely have a red dot on it.

That will be my "really, really, old man gun,...... or it could just as likely be my 3" DAO K frame in the pocket of by bathrobe while I feed the pigeons at the retirement villiage.

[wvincent]

To all, this has certainly been one of the better threads here! Of course there was some drift, but even the drift was very, very good.
That's the great thing about this place, even when we get off topic, it's usually just a helpful divergent track of the OP. No poo flinging, nobody getting called out, demands for "creds", no moderator intervention needed.

There may well be some emotional attachment to the 1911 for me, it was actually the first pistol I shot, first I was issued, carried, and qualified with. Even competed with it at the Division level in the Mil. First one I ever bought with my own funds.
When I went through the reserve academy in the early 90's, I qual'd with a brand new Gen 2 Glock 19. Didn't care for it much, which led to a change to a whole bunch of 3rd Gen S&W. My favorite out of all of them was my 4516. Except, I still had this all blue Combat Commander at home that still had a better trigger. Which led to my second enlistment, when they issued me an M9, which was just a handful for me due to grip size, but I survived.
Second return to citizen status, I went all the way back to the roots of my dad and started rolling with wheelies, which is still a lot of fun and certainly has it's time and place. But, I got back on the Glock train, then the Beretta train, then the Glock train again. I was willing to trade the trigger for reliability and capacity. Always on the hunt for what worked best, I thought the Gen 5 Glock 45 was going to be it, best Glock trigger to date, and a flat tracking slide and front sight.
Then along came the STI Staccato C. That 1911 trigger, a grip size that worked with my hands, and it tracks through the recoil impulse better than the Glock 45. And it carries better than any other pistol I have owned. I could actually just stop right there and be set in the pistol department, but once one has the 1911 itch, one never truly gets rid of it.
Soooo, long post short, I thought I would reward myself for surviving another year, and buy a better than stock 1911. I chose the LB BOSS as it seemed to have all of the features I wanted. Thankfully, PF helped flesh out the whole picture, thus I ended up at Alchemy. I wasn't looking to go retro, just basic and simple. I'm fine with the increased upkeep required of the pistol type. I didn't post the OP looking for validation of my decisions, just seeking some input from those who had considered the same choice, and that is exactly what I got.
No one pays me to carry anymore, I don't have to solve anyone's problems but my own. Adding that to the targeted vs random crime probabilities of my locale, I'm comfortable with losing some capacity vs grip and trigger, having a gun I can get into the fight and put holes when and where I want them, as long as I do my part.

[RevolverRob]

If my choice was a 1911 I owned, inspected, and maintained or a Glock that was the same, I’d pick the 1911, because I shoot it better.

If my choice was between an agency owned and maintained 1911 and Glock that was the same, I’d pick the Glock.

It’s not that I view one as inherently better than the other, it is that I recognize that one of those two can be maintained by a retarded monkey and the other requires an intelligent monkey to maintain. And my general experience with people other than myself is that the tend towards the retarded end of the monkey scale.

[wvincent]

If my choice was a 1911 I owned, inspected, and maintained or a Glock that was the same, I’d pick the 1911, because I shoot it better.

If my choice was between an agency owned and maintained 1911 and Glock that was the same, I’d pick the Glock.

It’s not that I view one as inherently better than the other, it is that I recognize that one of those two can be maintained by a retarded monkey and the other requires an intelligent monkey to maintain. And my general experience with people other than myself is that the tend towards the retarded end of the monkey scale.

Agreed on all. The point I didn't touch on was, if I have a pistol I truly enjoy shooting, than I will certainly shoot it more. The brutal honest truth? Shooting pistol's isn't a way of life for me, hell, it isn't even a hobby. I have a full time job and a half, a small farm, and I raise, train and compete with cutting horses. Leaves me zero time on the weekends to go compete at the local, (1 1/2 hour drive) gun club. Not very impressive, huh? I look at pistol training as a constantly recurring life saving training event, not a hobby. I dry fire 3x weekly, and try to allot time for a minimum 100 rds of drills and standards testing every weekend. My end goal is cold, on demand perfect performance. I have a long, long ways to go.

[45dotACP]

If I had to rely on an armorer to keep my 1911 running?

Lol I love the 1911 and all but I've only bought one factory 1911 that was immediately reliable and that was a Rock River Polymer gun. And it had obviously seen some hand fitting.

Every other gun (six of them) had failed the 10-8 extractor test. Each one a liability until I tweaked them. Now they're problem free and reliable as any Beretta or M&P in the safe. And what's more, usually once a 1911 is set up right, it stays that way. But you've gotta know what you're doing and the vast majority of the gun owning population is just that...gun owners. Not gun mechanics.

People like the 1911 in the same way someone likes a classic muscle car. They're sexy, American, and despite their age, they still have some serious capabilities. But only if they're tuned right. Times have changed, and you may have a hard time if you expect the same from a Hemi Barracuda and a Porsche 911, so pay someone to tune it, or do it yourself (which we all know is half the fun)

But don't do either of those and it'll be a headache. An expensive one.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[awmp]

I have had no less than 5 Les Baers. A niced used Baer in blue just looks good, but I have sold them all. I'm stuck on Nighthawk, Guncrafter, and Wilsons.

1911s are worse than potato chips or blue bell ice cream, you can never get enough.

As mentioned earlier prices on used higher-end 1911s are as cheap as I have ever seen.

Customer service and reputation go a long way with me, something many companies seem to be lacking these days.

Make your choice wisely, then buy lots of ammo and train.

Curious what your final choice is going to be.

[Corse]

I picked up a Baer UTC about 7 years ago when the prices were good. I’ve had no issues except for it being super tight fit for the first 1,000 rds, including the thumb safety. More recently I got a Wilson CQB for almost twice the cost, it is a better gun, but I would shop the used market if I wanted one now.

Last year, I had to have an Alchemy. It is a prime, with all the options of the elite, before the elite was available. It is the best of the bunch and then you figure in price it’s even better.

I like that Alchemy has expanded their options, might be another one in my future. I still think about a Wilson with an alloy frame every once and a while though.

[wvincent]

I picked up a Baer UTC about 7 years ago when the prices were good. I’ve had no issues except for it being super tight fit for the first 1,000 rds, including the thumb safety. More recently I got a Wilson CQB for almost twice the cost, it is a better gun, but I would shop the used market if I wanted one now.

Last year, I had to have an Alchemy. It is a prime, with all the options of the elite, before the elite was available. It is the best of the bunch and then you figure in price it’s even better.

I like that Alchemy has expanded their options, might be another one in my future. I still think about a Wilson with an alloy frame every once and a while though.

Thanks for chiming in here.
Care to share any additional thoughts, data points on you pistol?
How close were they to their projected completion date?
The couple of on site chats and the email exchanges have gone really well. Seem like a bunch of guys I could go have some drinks and Que with, and have a great time. How was your experience with them?

What is your opinion of their "high grip" machining profile? Much different than anybody else's?

[Corse]

Thanks for chiming in here.
Care to share any additional thoughts, data points on you pistol?
How close were they to their projected completion date?
The couple of on site chats and the email exchanges have gone really well. Seem like a bunch of guys I could go have some drinks and Que with, and have a great time. How was your experience with them?

What is your opinion of their "high grip" machining profile? Much different than anybody else's?

I ended up buying the Alchemy after it was already sitting on a shelf. It was built the way I wanted, so no wait ;). I’ve had no complaints in my comms with alchemy.

The Wilson has the Ryan Wilson High Grip Modification, but the alchemy feels like it gets my hand up higher. The cut under the trigger guard does tend to rub on my knuckle a little more though.