Ya’ll know we must have Gaston cussing under his breath, right?

[Tensaw]

I have been walking around with this for a while and decided, for no particular reason, to get this off my chest this morning. (Apparently I can’t wait for the Pfestivus to roll back around...) Please note that this is aimed at no one in particular even though various folks here have repeatedly made comments on this stuff; but I am sure that everyone who made the comments are better humans than me in every conceivable way. (I see the same comments all over the interwebz - so neither of these things are unique to us here.) Okay, with all the disclaimers out of the way, here goes.

Plastic Glock sights.
Yes, they are shitty. No, they have do not have any place on a pistol intended for defensive use. But what they also are, is cheap. A way long time ago, at a Glock armorers course, I recall the instructor saying something to the effect that all Glocks were imported to the U.S. wearing the plastic sights (for the points, ya know), and once here, those were pulled off the guns to be replaced with night sights. What did Glock do with all the take-offs? You might think they would ship back to Austria and be re-used - but you would be wrong. Glock threw them away by the 55 gallon barrel full.

By selling Glocks with the shitty plastic sights (I think Glock calls them “slot fillers” or something like that.) you and I are able to buy the pistol without paying more for better sights that we will then replace/upgrade anyway. There you go. That’s the logic. Works for me. After trying a variety of aftermarket sights, I settled on a set-up that works for me. Any time a new Glock comes into the stable, the plastic sights come off, and the ones I like go on. And I *like it* that way. There is no way Glock would ever offer the sight configuration that I like as a factory option (I’m just not that lucky). Being able to ditch the placeholders that I paid nothing for and replace them with the sights I prefer is, to me, a pretty good win. (Just to pick on somebody famous, Mr. Guns n’ Gear cracks on the plastic sights all the time. I wish he would stop.)

The 43/43X/48 are not as comfortable to shoot all day as (fill in the full-sized pistol of your choice here).
How long have we whined and complained for a single stack 9mm? Then we finally get them, and what do we do? Whine and complain that they are not as fun to shoot all day as a G34. C’mon guys. The little guns are to carry (and they carry amazingly well), not for marathon sessions at the range. I roll my eyes at reviewers (frequently on youtube - yeah I know) who ding the smaller guns for being harder to shoot and lacking in capacity as compared to their full-size brethren. Uhh, yeah. That’s like complaining that a Honda Civic won’t haul as much as a 3/4 ton pick-up. That ain’t what it was designed for.

Well alrighty then. Again, no malice here. I guess I feel better. Thanks for letting me share. :D

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Years ago, John Farnam told a bunch of us that he asked Gaston for a single stack and he said no. Wanted to maintain magazine commonality. But market forces prevail.

If they sell, that's what's counts. I'm sticking with my G26 - as I own already. Simple market driven answer. I did find the single stack a bit squirmy. But practice would take care of that.

[HeavyDuty]

I’m one of those that for literally decades wanted a 19 sized thinner single stack. I did wait until the all black ones came out, but I am hugely satisfied with my 48. Carry a lot, shoot a fair amount too - but it’s no range gun.

[GearFondler]

It won't stop, humans being as they are... Look at how many still complain that J-frames only hold 5 and suck to shoot comfortably and accurately.

[Trooper224]

The vast majority of shooters won't change their factory sights. A company sending out guns with plastic place fillers is almost as cocked up as asking an eighteen year old girl to show you her "precious". Make all the excuse you want, it's an amateur hour move. Gaston isn't the least bit concerned. That corrupt old fucker sells every gun he makes.

[Cheap Shot]

I have been walking around with this for a while and decided, for no particular reason, to get this off my chest this morning. (Apparently I can’t wait for the Pfestivus to roll back around...) Please note that this is aimed at no one in particular even though various folks here have repeatedly made comments on this stuff; but I am sure that everyone who made the comments are better humans than me in every conceivable way. (I see the same comments all over the interwebz - so neither of these things are unique to us here.) Okay, with all the disclaimers out of the way, here goes.

Plastic Glock sights.
Yes, they are shitty. No, they have do not have any place on a pistol intended for defensive use. But what they also are, is cheap. A way long time ago, at a Glock armorers course, I recall the instructor saying something to the effect that all Glocks were imported to the U.S. wearing the plastic sights (for the points, ya know), and once here, those were pulled off the guns to be replaced with night sights. What did Glock do with all the take-offs? You might think they would ship back to Austria and be re-used - but you would be wrong. Glock threw them away by the 55 gallon barrel full.

By selling Glocks with the shitty plastic sights (I think Glock calls them “slot fillers” or something like that.) you and I are able to buy the pistol without paying more for better sights that we will then replace/upgrade anyway. There you go. That’s the logic. Works for me. After trying a variety of aftermarket sights, I settled on a set-up that works for me. Any time a new Glock comes into the stable, the plastic sights come off, and the ones I like go on. And I *like it* that way. There is no way Glock would ever offer the sight configuration that I like as a factory option (I’m just not that lucky). Being able to ditch the placeholders that I paid nothing for and replace them with the sights I prefer is, to me, a pretty good win. (Just to pick on somebody famous, Mr. Guns n’ Gear cracks on the plastic sights all the time. I wish he would stop.)

The 43/43X/48 are not as comfortable to shoot all day as (fill in the full-sized pistol of your choice here).
How long have we whined and complained for a single stack 9mm? Then we finally get them, and what do we do? Whine and complain that they are not as fun to shoot all day as a G34. C’mon guys. The little guns are to carry (and they carry amazingly well), not for marathon sessions at the range. I roll my eyes at reviewers (frequently on youtube - yeah I know) who ding the smaller guns for being harder to shoot and lacking in capacity as compared to their full-size brethren. Uhh, yeah. That’s like complaining that a Honda Civic won’t haul as much as a 3/4 ton pick-up. That ain’t what it was designed for.

Well alrighty then. Again, no malice here. I guess I feel better. Thanks for letting me share. :D

For my edification, are you complaining about people............complaining? :confused:

Or, are you one of those hipsters being deliberately ironic :cool:

I'm good either way........

[Greg]

It’s funny that people complain about the plastic dovetail protection but don’t praise the excellent Ameriglo night sights that are a factory option.

[deflave]

I bought a G34 not long ago just for shooting USPSA.

The only thing I did to the sights was take a black sharpie to that white "U" they have on the back.

There are many reasons I fail on certain stages but the sights ain't one of them.

[JohnO]

Gaston isn't the least bit concerned. That corrupt old fucker sells every gun he makes.

Now someone is getting close. Manufacturers don't look at how much will the price of one unit increase if they do... In this case they look at how much will it cost to outfit every pistol produced with XYZ sights. From a financial standpoint Glock is playing the game perfectly. They have no need to sink more money into their product in order to make it sell better.

[NH Shooter]

I find a single-stack (in my case, a Walther PPS) very comfortable to carry and easy to conceal, but I fatigue more quickly with it than with the larger double-stack PPS. Happily I can shoot it as well as the PPQ, at least for the first 50 rounds or so.

[camsdaddy]

It’s funny that people complain about the plastic dovetail protection but don’t praise the excellent Ameriglo night sights that are a factory option.

The Glock night sights are my favorite. I have tried HD's, defoors and several combos of ameriglo night sights. I always return to Glock night sights and they are on all of my glocks.

[blues]

For all the bitchin' and moanin' about the crap plastic OEM sights on Glocks I got by with them from 1988 and 1995 through 2017 on two of my guns respectively.

(That said, I do appreciate the upgraded sights now that I got spoiled by the recommendations of the fancy people hanging out hereabouts. ;))

[Hieronymous]

If I glance at the guy/gal in the shooting lane next to me and see a Glock with standard sights, I tend to categorize them as a recreational shooter - aftermarket sights, then I tend to infer a slightly higher level of competency. A generalization, to be sure, but likely accurate.

The plastic sights might actually be the only reason many have experimented with different sight options. If they’d historically come with Heine Straight Eights or what have you, then I would never have known how much I disliked Big Dots ;)

[RevolverRob]

I have Gaston cursing under his breath, because I’ve never bought a new Glock. And I rarely recommend them any more to new shooters. The mushy trigger is the reason why, not the crappy sights, but those don’t help. Neither do the long standing accuracy issues finally resolved with Gen 5. The questionable reliability of Gen4s didn’t help, either.

Finally, the lack of a manual safety, combined with generally poor administrative gun handling traits of most new shooters. I feel most folks are better served by other weapons out there. The M&P 2.0 with thumb safety, Shield EZ, and Shield 9 are all higher on the recommendation chain. The little nubbin’ safety in the Shield kind of sucks, but at least can be activated and used during admin handling.

[deflave]

I have Gaston cursing under his breath, because I’ve never bought a new Glock. And I rarely recommend them any more to new shooters. The mushy trigger is the reason why, not the crappy sights, but those don’t help. Neither do the long standing accuracy issues finally resolved with Gen 5. The questionable reliability of Gen4s didn’t help, either.

Finally, the lack of a manual safety, combined with generally poor administrative gun handling traits of most new shooters. I feel most folks are better served by other weapons out there. The M&P 2.0 with thumb safety, Shield EZ, and Shield 9 are all higher on the recommendation chain. The little nubbin’ safety in the Shield kind of sucks, but at least can be activated and used during admin handling.

You've never bought a new Glock but hate new Glocks?

[HCM]

For all the bitchin' and moanin' about the crap plastic OEM sights on Glocks I got by with them from 1988 and 1995 through 2017 on two of my guns respectively.

(That said, I do appreciate the upgraded sights now that I got spoiled by the recommendations of the fancy people hanging out hereabouts. ;))

Unpossible, your ghost must be typing these responses.

Some of your success may well be the type of holsters you used. Duty type holsters made of harder materials tend to chew up the front sights.

The real problem with the Glock plastic sights, besides durability issues, is that before the Gen5 the white “dot in U” sight picture did not match the actual sight picture. If you take a proper sight picture with a pre-Gen 5 Glock you find the lower portion of the white dot cut off. Hence the fable of “Glocks shoot high” joins “Glocks shoot left” in the annals of derp.

[HCM]

You've never bought a new Glock but hate new Glocks?


https://youtu.be/V8lT1o0sDwI

[Trooper224]

When my agency transitioned to Gen 5 17's, about five months before I retired, we went with the night sight option. Glock, in their eternal attention to detail, gave us a front sight that was too tall for the attached rear sight so the guns all shot low. To make it even better, they secured those front sights with red Locktite. That made replacement pretty darned special.

[RevolverRob]

You've never bought a new Glock but hate new Glocks?

I don't remember saying that...:confused:

I said ole' Gaston is cursing me, because I don't buy new Gs, nor do I recommend them for new (read: novice) shooters.

Which means, I'm not real responsible for the commercial success of Big G. If someone wants to buy a Glock, by all means. The Gen 5 guns are the best Glocks ever made at this point. Better triggers (still mushy though), better texturing, and much better accuracy with the new barrels. The DLC coating is the best coating since the original "Tennifer" meloniting, as well.

But for novice shooters with bad to mediocre administrative gun handling skills? A gun with a manual safety is a big step in the right direction.

[deflave]

I don't remember saying that...:confused:

I said ole' Gaston is cursing me, because I don't buy new Gs, nor do I recommend them for new (read: novice) shooters.

Which means, I'm not real responsible for the commercial success of Big G. If someone wants to buy a Glock, by all means. The Gen 5 guns are the best Glocks ever made at this point. Better triggers (still mushy though), better texturing, and much better accuracy with the new barrels. The DLC coating is the best coating since the original "Tennifer" meloniting, as well.

But for novice shooters with bad to mediocre administrative gun handling skills? A gun with a manual safety is a big step in the right direction.

Which gun do you recommend for a novice shooter with bad to mediocre administrative gun handling skills?

[deflave]

When my agency transitioned to Gen 5 17's, about five months before I retired, we went with the night sight option. Glock, in their eternal attention to detail, gave us a front sight that was too tall for the attached rear sight so the guns all shot low. To make it even better, they secured those front sights with red Locktite. That made replacement pretty darned special.

How low did they shoot? What duty ammo were you guys using?

What sight did you purchase as a replacement?

[HCM]

When my agency transitioned to Gen 5 17's, about five months before I retired, we went with the night sight option. Glock, in their eternal attention to detail, gave us a front sight that was too tall for the attached rear sight so the guns all shot low. To make it even better, they secured those front sights with red Locktite. That made replacement pretty darned special.

Minute or two on the hex nut with a soldering iron and red Loctite softens right up. Not an issue.

[Trooper224]

Minute or two on the hex nut with a soldering iron and red Loctite softens right up. Not an issue.

Maybe it's not an issue with one pistol. But, when you have several hundred to retrofit it becomes a bit of a time suck.

[HCM]

Maybe it's not an issue with one pistol. But, when you have several hundred to retrofit it becomes a bit of a time suck.

Still better than front sights flying off at inopportune moments. Which is what happens to Glock fronts without Loctite...

[Trooper224]

How low did they shoot? What duty ammo were you guys using?

What sight did you purchase as a replacement?

Five inches low on average. The ammo was Hornady Critical Duty. The sight was the one Glock sent out after the, "Oooops, we're sorry." Phone conversation.

[Trooper224]

Still better than front sights flying off at inopportune moments. Which is what happens to Glock fronts without Loctite...

Sure, but how about they just put the right fucking sight on in the first place, or did that point escape you?

[HCM]

Sure, but how about they just put the right fucking sight on in the first place, or did that point escape you?

No it didn’t escape me. It’s not relevant to the use of red Loctite.

The put on the wrong sights but they did not install them improperly as you implied. You were complaining about them using red Loctite like it was what they did wrong. It’s not. Proper install of a Glock front sight equal red Loctite.

Why not make Glock fix their own mistake ?

[deflave]

Five inches low on average. The ammo was Hornady Critical Duty. The sight was the one Glock sent out after the, "Oooops, we're sorry." Phone conversation.

That's really bizarre.

What grain CD ammo were you issuing? The recall must have been a PITA. Were they fielded and then brought back? What did the officers do doing the interim?

Didn't the people doing the purchasing do some sort of check/test run before receiving them?

I wonder how much sight correction was needed to bring the POA/POI up five inches at (assuming) 25yds.

[Bucky]

Screw the sights (especially the front one, with a proper dab of Loctite). Fix the damn triggers.

I HATED shooting my 43 and my 48. Now I really enjoy shooting them. They both have Apex triggers in them now.

The upside is I ran out of razors one day before a big meeting, and I was able to use the factory 48 trigger to shave with. ;)

[lwt16]

When my agency transitioned to Gen 5 17's, about five months before I retired, we went with the night sight option. Glock, in their eternal attention to detail, gave us a front sight that was too tall for the attached rear sight so the guns all shot low. To make it even better, they secured those front sights with red Locktite. That made replacement pretty darned special.

Same with our G45 with Ameriglo Bold sights. They came with a .200 front sight and it needs a .180 for a 6 o'clock target hold. 90 percent of the cops here won't be able to benefit from it though.

Interestingly enough, none of ours had any sort of thread locking compound on them. Mine does now.

Regards.

[HeavyDuty]

Still better than front sights flying off at inopportune moments. Which is what happens to Glock fronts without Loctite...

I Loctite, but I also give the front a wiggle every time I do any kind of PM.

[RevolverRob]

Which gun do you recommend for a novice shooter with bad to mediocre administrative gun handling skills?

...


I have Gaston cursing under his breath, because I’ve never bought a new Glock. And I rarely recommend them any more to new shooters. The mushy trigger is the reason why, not the crappy sights, but those don’t help. Neither do the long standing accuracy issues finally resolved with Gen 5. The questionable reliability of Gen4s didn’t help, either.

Finally, the lack of a manual safety, combined with generally poor administrative gun handling traits of most new shooters. I feel most folks are better served by other weapons out there. The M&P 2.0 with thumb safety, Shield EZ, and Shield 9 are all higher on the recommendation chain. The little nubbin’ safety in the Shield kind of sucks, but at least can be activated and used during admin handling.

[deflave]

...

Thanks.

I have a hard time finding the right pistol for those types of people. The safety will make us all safer.

[HCM]

...

Until they muzzle you and say “what are you bitching about, the safety is on....” true story.

These are usually the same people who don’t train working the safety and forget to take the safety off when they actually need to shoot.

There is no free lunch and fool proofing just results in more foolish fools.

[blues]

No guns until one has proven to handle the weapon in a safe manner. Period. No excuses.

[HCM]

No guns until one has proven to handle the weapon in a safe manner. Period. No excuses.

If only. The person in question was a serving 1811 with a DOD Agency in pre-deployment training.

A few days later she had an ND with a slung M4 (safety off when it should have been on) which missed a coworkers foot by an inch.

Very much an attitude problem. I would summarize it as “I have a masters degree and guns are stupid” thus by extension the savages in the red shirts must be stupid and I don’t need to listen to them.

[SecondsCount]

I have Gaston cursing under his breath, because I’ve never bought a new Glock. And I rarely recommend them any more to new shooters. The mushy trigger is the reason why, not the crappy sights, but those don’t help. Neither do the long standing accuracy issues finally resolved with Gen 5. The questionable reliability of Gen4s didn’t help, either.

Finally, the lack of a manual safety, combined with generally poor administrative gun handling traits of most new shooters. I feel most folks are better served by other weapons out there. The M&P 2.0 with thumb safety, Shield EZ, and Shield 9 are all higher on the recommendation chain. The little nubbin’ safety in the Shield kind of sucks, but at least can be activated and used during admin handling.

Nailed it!

My thing about Glocks is somewhere along the line they became overpriced, unless you were law enforcement, etc. If you look at what a Taurus sells for, that's probably about the same as what a Glock should sell for considering the economy of scale.

For years people said the G19 was the perfect carry gun until the G48 was introduced. Suddenly it became perfection.

That being said, I have a few Glocks and didn't pay full price for any of them.

[Caballoflaco]

One big thing that glock got right that other gun companies failed (for a carry gun) at was the intermediate size grip of the g19.

I do imagine that Glock kicked themselves for waiting to produce the g45 size after they saw the first year sales numbers

[HCM]

Nailed it!

My thing about Glocks is somewhere along the line they became overpriced, unless you were law enforcement, etc. If you look at what a Taurus sells for, that's probably about the same as what a Glock should sell for considering the economy of scale.

For years people said the G19 was the perfect carry gun until the G48 was introduced. Suddenly it became perfection.

That being said, I have a few Glocks and didn't pay full price for any of them.

When Glock first came to the states they were looking at pricing the guns around $200 and an industry advisor got them to go about 400 which was still about 2/3 of what the popular service pistols at that time went for (92f, P226, 5906).

This is why SA re branded the $200 HS2000 into the XD.

I want to say the first Glock I bought new, a Glock 19 in 1992 was just under $500 including those new dangled nuclear night sights.

Glock prices have actually remained pretty flat over the last 30 years.

[Bucky]

One big thing that glock got right that other gun companies failed (for a carry gun) at was the intermediate size grip of the g19.


I’ll assume you are referring to the length of the G19 grip. The grip in the hand feels fatter then a G17 to those of use with smaller hands due to the hump placement. To bad GLOCK didn’t go the original route of the rare Gen 1 G19 that is a gut down 17 grip. It took a Gen 4 / no backstrap option 19 for me to ever consider one for carry.

[RevolverRob]

I’ll assume you are referring to the length of the G19 grip. The grip in the hand feels fatter then a G17 to those of use with smaller hands due to the hump placement. To bad GLOCK didn’t go the original route of the rare Gen 1 G19 that is a gut down 17 grip. It took a Gen 4 / no backstrap option 19 for me to ever consider one for carry.

Grip reduced Glocks are the bomb compared to the "ergonomics" initially employed.

A G19 that has the hump removed and flattened to a proper 11º angle is an excellent pointing and fairly well shooting gun. All it needs after that is to not have a mushy trigger; And group better than 4" at 25y; And not have crappy plastic sights; And after that it's basically just a plastic, safety-less, 1911...:eek:

[Yung]

I brought my G45s during my first time with Mr. White. The stock sights were fine and I managed a Dark Pin.

While I'm back the Beretta buddies again, occasionally I'll still bring a G45 since most new shooters are using Glocks and it helps when volunteering with classes. I've been thinking that I can't be the only one who would buy a metal version of the stock black-and-white sights.

[HCM]

I brought my G45s during my first time with Mr. White. The stock sights were fine and I managed a Dark Pin.

While I'm back the Beretta buddies again, occasionally I'll still bring a G45 since most new shooters are using Glocks and it helps when volunteering with classes. I've been thinking that I can't be the only one who would buy a metal version of the stock black-and-white sights.

You and the British Army.

[Gater]

I brought my G45s during my first time with Mr. White. The stock sights were fine and I managed a Dark Pin.

While I'm back the Beretta buddies again, occasionally I'll still bring a G45 since most new shooters are using Glocks and it helps when volunteering with classes. I've been thinking that I can't be the only one who would buy a metal version of the stock black-and-white sights.

In the event you really want to:

https://store.teamglock.com/gun-parts/slide-parts/sights-tools/glock-steel-rear-sight-6-5mm.html

https://store.teamglock.com/gun-parts/slide-parts/sights-tools/glock-steel-front-sight-w-screw.html

[HeavyDuty]

In the event you really want to:

https://store.teamglock.com/gun-parts/slide-parts/sights-tools/glock-steel-rear-sight-6-5mm.html

https://store.teamglock.com/gun-parts/slide-parts/sights-tools/glock-steel-front-sight-w-screw.html

I used to love the Glock sight picture until my eyes aged. I actually looked for those for a few years in the pre internet days.

[Wise_A]

For all the bitchin' and moanin' about the crap plastic OEM sights on Glocks I got by with them from 1988 and 1995 through 2017 on two of my guns respectively.

(That said, I do appreciate the upgraded sights now that I got spoiled by the recommendations of the fancy people hanging out hereabouts. ;))

I've never had a problem with the plastic factory sights. I've helped a bunch of dudes find their aftermarket sights, alternatively from downrange and the parking lot.

[MistWolf]

Gaston doesn't care what I want in a handgun and in turn, I don't care why he's cussing under his breath. But the plastic adjustable (for windage) sights was a good move. The "points" gained from such meant Glock didn't have to resort to other "features" to ensure the first G17 was importable to the US, such as a magazine disconnect.

[Yung]

Thanks for the tips fellas, I guess this must be my lucky day.