Reliable, lightweight lever action carbine in pistol calibers?

[4given]

It won't be too long that my wife & I will be wintering on the Colorado river along the border of Arizona & California. We will be spending a significant about of time camped on the California side.

Just to avoid hassles, for handguns, we will be taking revolvers with us. I've been entertaining the notion to purchase a reliable, lightweight lever action carbine in a pistol caliber like .357 mag since I won't be taking an AR.

Any suggestions / advise / discussion?

Thanks!

[Bigghoss]

How much do you want to spend? Do you want to mount a sight or WML to it? Do you want a traditional gun or something more modern?

Rossi 92 for a less expensive, traditional, slick carbine. Marlin 1894 if you can afford something more expensive and would like to mount stuff to it. XS does make a scout rail and sights for the Rossi but there's more options for the Marlin.

I've heard mixed things about the Henry rifles, I haven't paid as much attention to them though. The new X model is available in .357, has a side gate, and is ready to mount stuff on.

[deflave]

Marlin would be a very safe bet.

But if you can find one of the Ruger lever guns I'd be all over it.

I won't mention the 77/357 since you asked about lever guns. Grin...

[Lester Polfus]

I bought an 1894c in June have about 1k rounds through it. Once I got the magazine spring sorted, it's been great.

It wasn't "unreliable" prior to me trimming the magazine spring, I could just barely get the damn thing loaded. A little research reveals that Marlin uses the same SKU for the magazine spring whether the gun has a 16" or 22" barrel. Mine clearly hadn't been trimmed from the factory.

I put a set of XS sights, a red dot and a TLR on mine and it's the bees knees.

[4given]

How much do you want to spend? Do you want to mount a sight or WML to it? Do you want a traditional gun or something more modern?

Rossi 92 for a less expensive, traditional, slick carbine. Marlin 1894 if you can afford something more expensive and would like to mount stuff to it. XS does make a scout rail and sights for the Rossi but there's more options for the Marlin.

I've heard mixed things about the Henry rifles, I haven't paid as much attention to them though. The new X model is available in .357, has a side gate, and is ready to mount stuff on.

I really don't know how much I want to spend. Not a ton if I don't have to.

From what I have been reading, the Rossi 92 might fit the bill; short barrel , under 5 pounds, slick action, reasonably accurate for what it is and what I want it for. Dosen't draw attention by looking too "tactical, black & evil". I think I read that Rossi sells a scope mount for it. I might want to put a 'traditional" looking optic on it at some point like a low power scope or red dot. Nothing fancy.

Thing is I usually don't hear the words "Rossi" and reliable used in the same sentence. I am not passing judgment on them yet having no experience with one (hey I'm not prejdiced I own a Taurus 865! LOL) Do you own a Rossi 92? I would love to hear more about it.

[4given]

Marlin would be a very safe bet.

But if you can find one of the Ruger lever guns I'd be all over it.

I won't mention the 77/357 since you asked about lever guns. Grin...

96/44?

[4given]

I bought an 1894c in June have about 1k rounds through it. Once I got the magazine spring sorted, it's been great.

It wasn't "unreliable" prior to me trimming the magazine spring, I could just barely get the damn thing loaded. A little research reveals that Marlin uses the same SKU for the magazine spring whether the gun has a 16" or 22" barrel. Mine clearly hadn't been trimmed from the factory.

I put a set of XS sights, a red dot and a TLR on mine and it's the bees knees.

A Marlin is definitely in contention. Again, traditional "non threatening" looks. Accurate and presumably reliable. Easy to mount an optic.

What caliber is yours? Are they all .38/357?

[Bigghoss]

I really don't know how much I want to spend. Not a ton if I don't have to.

From what I have been reading, the Rossi 92 might fit the bill; short barrel , under 5 pounds, slick action, reasonably accurate for what it is and what I want it for. Dosen't draw attention by looking too "tactical, black & evil". I think I read that Rossi sells a scope mount for it. I might want to put a 'traditional" looking optic on it at some point like a low power scope or red dot. Nothing fancy.

Thing is I usually don't hear the words "Rossi" and reliable used in the same sentence. I am not passing judgment on them yet having no experience with one (hey I'm not prejdiced I own a Taurus 865! LOL) Do you own a Rossi 92? I would love to hear more about it.

I don't own one but I'm seriously thinking about getting one. I love the old west look of them. The lever actions might be the only good thing with Rossi's name on it.

The Rossi runs about $550, a new Marlin 1894 can go just south of $1,000. My LGS has an 1894 "JM" stamped gun in .44 mag for $550, you might be able to find a .357 on GB for close to that with a blued finish and more traditional look.

[deflave]

96/44?

Yes.

[Lester Polfus]

A Marlin is definitely in contention. Again, traditional "non threatening" looks. Accurate and presumably reliable. Easy to mount an optic.

What caliber is yours? Are they all .38/357?

My 1894c is a .357. I bought it for about $650 from KY Gun Co.

They make variants of the 1894 in .357, .44 Mag, and .45 Colt with barrel lengths from 18.5" to 22" or so.

All of the magnum pistol calibers become a different animal from a rifle length barrel.

[swampyank33]

I bought an 1894c in June have about 1k rounds through it. Once I got the magazine spring sorted, it's been great.

It wasn't "unreliable" prior to me trimming the magazine spring, I could just barely get the damn thing loaded. A little research reveals that Marlin uses the same SKU for the magazine spring whether the gun has a 16" or 22" barrel. Mine clearly hadn't been trimmed from the factory.

I put a set of XS sights, a red dot and a TLR on mine and it's the bees knees.Got any pics of this setup around? :)
Sounds like something I might need... plus the more lever gun pics the better....

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Bigghoss]

All of the magnum pistol calibers become a different animal from a rifle length barrel.

Important note to anyone reading that this could possibly be a bad thing if the impact velocity of the bullet is above the thresh hold it was designed for. Select your ammo carefully.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxcFK3rcqU8

[Lester Polfus]

Got any pics of this setup around? :)
Sounds like something I might need... plus the more lever gun pics the better....

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

48725

Crappy cell phone pic is the best I can do at the moment...

[Lester Polfus]

Important note to anyone reading that this could possibly be a bad thing if the impact velocity of the bullet is above the thresh hold it was designed for. Select your ammo carefully.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxcFK3rcqU8

Absolutely.

When it comes to .357, I think about any 125 grain load is Right Out. I've had great luck with American Eagle's .357 158 grain JSP out of both a 4" revolver and 18.5" rifle.

[Totem Polar]

I won't mention the 77/357 since you asked about lever guns. Grin...

I will. One of those is on my short list for a ban-state "scout" type rifle. One could put a Leupy FX 2.5 on it, and still be within spitting distance of 6 lbs, rings included.



When it comes to .357, I think about any 125 grain load is Right Out. I've had great luck with American Eagle's .357 158 grain JSP out of both a 4" revolver and 18.5" rifle.

PMC’s 158 JSP also moves right along out of 18.5". Affordable, and punchy.

[4given]

48725

Crappy cell phone pic is the best I can do at the moment...

Sa-weet!

Nice set up! Walt would be proud ... :cool:

[Tennessee Jed]

48726

I have a Rossi 92. It's stainless, with a 16 inch barrel. I kept this as inexpensive as possible for a beater rifle, something I could abuse and not fret about if I drop it, scratch it, etc. And it's become one of my favorites. It's very handy and light.

With 357 mag 158 grain soft points, which travel at around 1700 - 1750 fps out of this barrel, it's surprisingly accurate. I've never had a malfunction, and I think I've put somewhere around 1,000 - 1,500 rounds through it.

I did do a little bit of work on it, but not much. The most significant thing was to lighten the spring on the loading gate to make loading a little easier.

[MolonLabe416]

In a pistol caliber I like the Marlin and the Taylor’s 1892. In particular, the Taylor’s is available as a takedown. 357 is a whole different cartridge out of a 16” barrel and punches way above its’ weight (pardon the pun).

A 16” (often referred to as a Trapper) in 30/30 is dandy too. In any case, I’d stick to a 16” barrel as they are much handier than the longer rifles.

An N Frame Smith like a Model 28 or a Ruger GP-100 in 357 paired with a like caliber carbine is a fine combination. Also has the advantage of less expensive 38 special ammo for practice.

[4given]

Absolutely.

When it comes to .357, I think about any 125 grain load is Right Out. I've had great luck with American Eagle's .357 158 grain JSP out of both a 4" revolver and 18.5" rifle.

I was thinking Hornady 158 gr XTP might work well out of a 16" barrel. Easy & cheap to reload a duplicate practice round

[4given]

I will. One of those is on my short list for a ban-state "scout" type rifle. One could put a Leupy FX 2.5 on it, and still be within spitting distance of 6 lbs, rings included.



PMC’s 158 JSP also moves right along out of 18.5". Affordable, and punchy.

I do like the rotary magazine

[4given]

48726

I have a Rossi 92. It's stainless, with a 16 inch barrel. I kept this as inexpensive as possible for a beater rifle, something I could abuse and not fret about if I drop it, scratch it, etc. And it's become one of my favorites. It's very handy and light.

With 357 mag 158 grain soft points, which travel at around 1700 - 1750 fps out of this barrel, it's surprisingly accurate. I've never had a malfunction, and I think I've put somewhere around 1,000 - 1,500 rounds through it.

I did do a little bit of work on it, but not much. The most significant thing was to lighten the spring on the loading gate to make loading a little easier.

Thanks for the post! Nice to hear from someone who has one! Love the "Red Green" light mount!

[DocGKR]

A .44 mag lever gun using XTP's (300, 240, 180) or 225 gr FTX's is quite effective.

[deflave]

The XS sights on a Marlin are wicked, wicked, wicked.

And if you're patient, you can still find really good deals on them.

[4given]

In a pistol caliber I like the Marlin and the Taylor’s 1892. In particular, the Taylor’s is available as a takedown. 357 is a whole different cartridge out of a 16” barrel and punches way above its’ weight (pardon the pun).

A 16” (often referred to as a Trapper) in 30/30 is dandy too. In any case, I’d stick to a 16” barrel as they are much handier than the longer rifles.

An N Frame Smith like a Model 28 or a Ruger GP-100 in 357 paired with a like caliber carbine is a fine combination. Also has the advantage of less expensive 38 special ammo for practice.

The Taylors are nice and the name would match the headstock on two of my acoustic guitars! Probably more than I want to spend I think. I just picked up a near mint S&W M66-2 that I will pair with a lever gun should I get one.

[Lester Polfus]

I was thinking Hornady 158 gr XTP might work well out of a 16" barrel. Easy & cheap to reload a duplicate practice round

That too. Hornady makes both a hollow point and a flat point version of the XTP as reloading components.

I think the beauty of the .357 is there are a plethora of ammo options that work just fine.

[4given]

A .44 mag lever gun using XTP's (300, 240, 180) or 225 gr FTX's is quite effective.

That would be nice too. I love 44's.

[4given]

The XS sights on a Marlin are wicked, wicked, wicked.

And if you're patient, you can still find really good deals on them.

Easy to install?

[Lester Polfus]

Easy to install?

Yes. On both the Marlin 336/1895 and the 1894, you just take out the plug screws on the rear of the receiver, unscrew the front sight, then screw the new sights on.

Because of production variations over the decades that Marlin has made lever guns, it's possible your new XS front sight will not be the correct height to get a good zero with the rear sight near the middle of adjustment range.

If that happens, put the rear sight in the middle of it's elevation range, take note of how many inches high or low you are at 50 yards, then call XS sights.

They will send you a correct height front sight, plus a pre-paid mailer for the old one.

All for free.

[luckyman]

A .44 mag lever gun using XTP's (300, 240, 180) or 225 gr FTX's is quite effective.

Tangent for DocGKR: Do you feel the 44 is an important upgrade from the 357 in a rifle for self-defense use; or is the 357 in the same ballpark?

[Lester Polfus]

Tangent for DocGKR: Do you feel the 44 is an important upgrade from the 357 in a rifle for self-defense use; or is the 357 in the same ballpark?

I'm not Doc, and no where near smart enough to play him on TV. I'm keen to hear what he has to say, but in the interim, I'll lay out my logic for buying the .357:

I really liked the idea of a J-frame, 4" GP100 and 18.5" lever gun that all eat the same food. Obviously shooting 180 grain rhino rollers through the J-frame isn't ideal, but I found the economies of stocking the same primers, powders, bullets and ammo attractive. I shoot these guns a BUNCH.

So while the .44 was undeniably "more" the .357 was "enough" for deer and a-holes, and the lesser ballistics were made up for by the superior logistics.

If I was only pairing up an outdoors/field revolver and a carbine, the .44 would have gotten the nod. I'd be comfortable hunting elk with a .44 Mag carbine at appropriate ranges.

[JTMcC]

A .44 mag lever gun using XTP's (300, 240, 180) or 225 gr FTX's is quite effective.

As is a .44 mag pump gun : )
Altho I've never shot 180's or the FTX.
IMI Timberwolf for the win.

[GJM]

I have had a number of various caliber lever guns, and if I was set on a lever gun, it would be a Marlin .45-70. They are very stout and actually lighter than a Marlin 30-30. One hit with factory 300 grain should be definitive.

If I wasn’t set on a lever, I would consider a CZ bolt in 7.62x39. Otherwise I would just go with a Benelli M2/Beretta 1301. The eastern part of southern CA is pretty sparsely settled!

[peterb]

From what I have been reading, the Rossi 92 might fit the bill; short barrel , under 5 pounds, slick action, reasonably accurate for what it is and what I want it for. Dosen't draw attention by looking too "tactical, black & evil". I think I read that Rossi sells a scope mount for it. I might want to put a 'traditional" looking optic on it at some point like a low power scope or red dot. Nothing fancy.

Reading this thread, got curious, went to the Rossi USA website and found that the only 16” versions shown are all black with a large loop. Sheesh. https://rossiusa.com/lever-action/

Looks like some interesting parts here, including sight options: https://store.stevesgunz.com/

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I have a Rossi 92 saddle ring and it's one of my never-sell guns.

Very slim, very light, pretty punchy with heavy .357s. Out to maybe 75 yards it's amazing.

Never done anything to it but drip in a bit of oil, although I agree the loading gate spring is excessive.

[OlongJohnson]

Important note to anyone reading that this could possibly be a bad thing if the impact velocity of the bullet is above the thresh hold it was designed for. Select your ammo carefully.


I was thinking Hornady 158 gr XTP might work well out of a 16" barrel. Easy & cheap to reload a duplicate practice round


That too. Hornady makes both a hollow point and a flat point version of the XTP as reloading components.

Yes, two versions of the 158gr XTP. The FP is listed with a much higher optimal velocity range, and thus is more suitable for heavy loads from a long gun. The 180gr HP XTP is actually listed as a higher BC than the 158 FP, but you get lower muzzle velocity. I think the external ballistics end up being pretty close to a wash much past 75 yards.

My idea about how to exploit the difference is to use the 158 FP over 110/296 for non-revolvers, and use the 180 over 4227, which is single base and less likely to cause flame cutting, in revolvers if I want a heavy load. The 180 will use smaller powder charges at max and has a longer burn time due to the longer, slower-moving bullet, before exposing the cylinder gap. Also, 4227 can be reduced more than 110/296 if you want to do that, although it tends to leave unburned chunks behind if you do. The 180s would then obviously also be usable in guns with no cylinder gap.

I think it's definitely an interesting use case to run standard-pressure .38s in the carbine. They should get about enough velocity bump to equal a 124gr 9mm round from a service pistol. I know Doc keeps downing the concept of a pistol caliber carbine, but I keep thinking about a round that is as effective as a service round with very little felt recoil, about half the peak pressure and a lot more time for pressure to dissipate before the bullet leaves the barrel. Should be very friendly to the shooter. Not hearing-safe, but may do usefully less damage to one's ears if not wearing pro.

Remember that a lot of lever guns made to handle .357s have issues feeding .38 cases. Definitely be sure to vet your gun and ammo, including feeding in a variety of positions, etc.


In a pistol caliber I like the Marlin and the Taylor’s 1892. In particular, the Taylor’s is available as a takedown. 357 is a whole different cartridge out of a 16” barrel and punches way above its’ weight (pardon the pun).

Taylor's is the current importer of the lever guns made by Chiappa in Italy, AFAIK. I really like that 1892 Alaskan takedown; keep thinking about getting one, especially the threaded version. I happened to handle a .44 Alaskan in a LGS a couple years ago, and it was smooth like you wish Marlins are. I haven't seen any reports about how they hold up to Cowboy competition-type service, though.

[JRB]

Gentlemen, I absolutely love this thread. Thank you for all for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge - a .44 Mag lever gun to match a 4in model 29 is pretty make a very serious bucket-list pair for me.

I'm going to tag Lost River here so he can (hopefully) come post a bunch of awesome pics and share some awesome experience with pistol cal lever guns, so this can officially become my favorite P-F thread.

[deflave]

Easy to install?

Very.

[fatdog]

1892 Alaskan takedown;....I haven't seen any reports about how they hold up to Cowboy competition-type service, though.

Likely never will. The only reason people run '92 s are the cheap prices of the Rossi's, and the Alaskan is about 2.5X the price of the basic models. '92's have a much longer lever stroke and it is a competitive disadvantage in SASS, for that price you get a new '66 or '73 which is much more competitive and faster to run, and unlike the '92 those models will accept short stroke kits which make them even faster. The Alaskan is illegal for NCOWS because it is not an original configuration.

I do think it is a neat gun. I have seen very few people break a Rossi '92 action running them hard and the Chiappa guys tend to import quality guns.

[BobM]

As is a .44 mag pump gun : )
Altho I've never shot 180's or the FTX.
IMI Timberwolf for the win.
I was surprised those weren't more popular. Years ago I tried to hunt one down and couldn't find any (pre Internet).

[Redhat]

Had a EMF (Rossi) M92 20" Carbine in .357 that was very nice. Never a problem with it.

[JTMcC]

I was surprised those weren't more popular. Years ago I tried to hunt one down and couldn't find any (pre Internet).

Yea they never caught on, I love mine, 5 1/2 LB of handiness. If I didn't have it I would have a lever gun in .44

[fatdog]

...if I was set on a lever gun, it would be a Marlin .45-70

With GJM on this for a camping gun, a pistol caliber is probably fine where you are going,but the .45-70 is enough of a "camp gun" for anywhere in the lower 48. I got a part from Beartooth Mercantile to replace the silly crossbolt safety. I prefer 405gr hardcast loaded at "cowboy" velocities, mine run about 1250 fps from this little beast and I find those quite tolerable, several manufacturers like HSM make loads in that range. Hill People stock saddle and XS rear sight.

48747

My second choice would be some form of '92 in .44 Magnum or my Benelli M1S90 with slugs.

I really want one of those Chiappa takedown '92's at some point. Something I could fly with that does not have to go in a separate "this is a rifle" case through the luggage systems.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I really want one of those Chiappa takedown '92's at some point.

I had one of those on loan for T&E about 5 years ago. It was difficult to give back.

https://calibremag.ca/chiappa-lever-guns-reviewed/

For some reason this was credited to a different writer but anyway, I got the trigger time and it was a really handy little carbine.

[Half Moon]

I had one of those on loan for T&E about 5 years ago. It was difficult to give back.

https://calibremag.ca/chiappa-lever-guns-reviewed/

For some reason this was credited to a different writer but anyway, I got the trigger time and it was a really handy little carbine.

I've looked online at the Chiappa takedowns on and off. What did you think of the Skinner sights? Since I've never seen one of the Chiappas in real life my only point of comparison is the original Springfield 1903 peeps. At least with those, a peep that far from the eye is just marginal at best...

[OlongJohnson]

I had one of those on loan for T&E about 5 years ago. It was difficult to give back.

https://calibremag.ca/chiappa-lever-guns-reviewed/

For some reason this was credited to a different writer but anyway, I got the trigger time and it was a really handy little carbine.

You called the Alaskan stainless and stated the stocks are synthetic. My understanding is that it's chromed carbon steel and the stocks are polymer coated (maybe something a little like Plasti-Dip) wood. Have they changed? Am I out in left field?

[Poconnor]

Don’t forget the old browning model 92s. I have been looking for one for a long time

[Maple Syrup Actual]

On the sights...not my favourite, but I found them easy to shoot accurately.

HOWEVER: I'm annoyingly sight- and trigger- insensitive and find my performance is only marginally affected by anything other than absolute extremes. I had an AR with a 14 pound trigger and never noticed until someone else shot it and complained (Canadians will likely know what gun I'm talking about) and my 92 has pretty primitive leaf sights and I shoot them about as fast as anything. So the Skinners work ok for me but I would bet a lot of people would find them a little slow.

As far as the stock goes, well, I think I correctly assessed it as polymer but it was about five years ago. It's possible it was wood with a weird coating and I didn't realize it because that's fucking weird. It seemed at the time like a quality polymer but that's all I remember, to be honest.

[L-2]

Regarding Marlin.

I had a stainless steel .44 Magnum Marlin (no longer made with these specs) I recently sold. The ammo cost and my lack of using it was just too much for me to keep. While I owned it, this specific gun had to go back to the Marlin/Remington company twice as the lever somehow was not adequately hardened and bent while shooting & using; and the other problem I learned actually had a name of "Marlin Jam", which meant the lever & bolt would lock-up due to a notch forming on the bolt (I think I'm explaining it right). Once these two major problems were fixed, the rifle (an 1894SS) was actually pretty darn good.

This was a few years ago and the shipping method, using UPS, was very inconvenient for me. The rifle had to be picked up at my residence with no provision for drop-off at a UPS location. It generally meant I had to be at home all day as UPS doesn't specify a pickup time other than 0800-1900 hours. This experience really soured me on the Marlin brand.

Others in .357.
I've considered a .357 lever for the same reasons as the OP, which is legal transportation and possession in other states, particularly California, but could be other states of which I'm not yet familiar. Marlin would have considered again except for my previous bad experiences. Note, I understand most Marlins will likely be OK, but I'm one of those unlucky persons who seem to be unlucky with guns. I currently have a Springfield-Armory Saint (blowing primers/over pressure it seems) back to the factory right now for over 3 weeks and it'll be even longer as time goes by.

Although somewhat costly, the Taylor's "Alaskan" take-down .357 lever action guns attract me.
https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/long-guns/cartridge-rifles/1892-alaskan.html
I haven't found them in-stock in my local stores and they're ~$1400-$1500 depending on finish.
For that money, I'm thinking about another AR15 to replace that Saint which may never come back as reliable for all I know.

What I'm Doing for Now.
I generally travel with a 12 gauge shotgun (with slugs and 00 buck), of which I've got four; three of which seem to be 50 state legal with 18.5" barrels. I'm not concerned with my handgun ammo not matching my long-gun ammo, but can see it'd be nice to have both hand & long guns using the same ammo when traveling, just not a necessity for me. I realize not everyone is as comfortable with shotguns. I am just saying what I do.

In closing, whatever is bought, just allow enough time to thoroughly vet both gun and the shooter with the gun. I've had so many guns fail to work 100%, but I admit I do shoot a lot.

[Duelist]

My travel long-gun is a beat-up old JM Marlin 1894 in .357. My daughter loves shooting it, and she doesn’t spend much time shooting many long-guns that are more powerful than a .22. It works, it’s fun, my kid will shoot it, and it’s legal all over.

[Wyoming Shooter]

I have a blue 1892 Chiappa and a stainless 1894 Marlin CSBL, both in 38/357. The Chiappa has a fiber optic front sight, which I prefer over the XS vertical white line front sight. I removed the XS rail on the Marlin as I don't want an optic on the gun and it makes carry at the natural balance point less comfortable. I also have a Marlin 1895 45-70 for wandering about in bear country. An 1892 or 1894 in 38/357 with a proper S&W revolver will suit your needs very well.

[RONK]

Gentlemen, I absolutely love this thread. Thank you for all for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge - a .44 Mag lever gun to match a 4in model 29 is pretty make a very serious bucket-list pair for me.

I'm going to tag Lost River here so he can (hopefully) come post a bunch of awesome pics and share some awesome experience with pistol cal lever guns, so this can officially become my favorite P-F thread.

I too love this thread(and pretty much any other dedicated to lever rifles and revolvers),thank you gentlemen!I also hope Doc and Lost River join in.Any opinions on how the 1873 compares to the other rifles discussed?Apparently Rossi is introducing a model similar to the Marlin Dark/Henry X rifles.

[Malamute]

...Any opinions on how the 1873 compares to the other rifles discussed?


Steve, of Steves Gunz, the lever gunsmith that does a lot of cowboy action gunsmithing has commented a number of times that he sees the 1892 actions pop straight wall cartridges straight up between the cartridge guides when run fast. I dont know if its primarily a Rossi issue or what. The 1892 action was designed to work with bottleneck cartridges, which the 44-40, 38-40 were. They can be fine with straight wall cartridges in well built guns I believe, but the potential exists. I (sample of one) have had no problems with my Browning 92 in 44 mag.

Another gunsmith and cowboy action shooter told me his personal Uberti 73 in 45 Colt had not ever failed to cycle in around 50k rounds. The 73 action, despite its perceived weakness of action lockup in comparison to other types, feeds the shell straight into the chamber with the shell unable to become free of the carrier/lifter during use. Id love to have either a 20" or 16" carbine Miroku/Winchester 1873 in 357 mag. If I ever managed to wear it out, they can be fitted with oversize links to take up worn headspace. Id also be quite happy with a Browning 92 or Miroku/Winchester 92 carbine in 357 and not look back. Either would likely end up cut to 16 or 17 inches. Im planning to cut the Browning 92 44 to 17 inches when the time is right.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I wanted a .357 Timberwolf back in the day, but had no funds. If someone began producing them again, it would likely jump to the top of my want list.



https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/long-guns/cartridge-rifles/1892-alaskan/1892-alaskan-chrome-take-down-threaded.html

Oh, my! I can think of little else that I'd want in a .357/.44 levergun, with the possible exception of a shorter LOP...and it would be easy to lop of an inch or two.

[OlongJohnson]

Do eet!

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/854306118

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/854308967

[RONK]

Gentlemen, I absolutely love this thread. Thank you for all for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge - a .44 Mag lever gun to match a 4in model 29 is pretty make a very serious bucket-list pair for me.

I'm going to tag Lost River here so he can (hopefully) come post a bunch of awesome pics and share some awesome experience with pistol cal lever guns, so this can officially become my favorite P-F thread.


Steve, of Steves Gunz, the lever gunsmith that does a lot of cowboy action gunsmithing has commented a number of times that he sees the 1892 actions pop straight wall cartridges straight up between the cartridge guides when run fast. I dont know if its primarily a Rossi issue or what. The 1892 action was designed to work with bottleneck cartridges, which the 44-40, 38-40 were. They can be fine with straight wall cartridges in well built guns I believe, but the potential exists. I (sample of one) have had no problems with my Browning 92 in 44 mag.

Another gunsmith and cowboy action shooter told me his personal Uberti 73 in 45 Colt had not ever failed to cycle in around 50k rounds. The 73 action, despite its perceived weakness of action lockup in comparison to other types, feeds the shell straight into the chamber with the shell unable to become free of the carrier/lifter during use. Id love to have either a 20" or 16" carbine Miroku/Winchester 1873 in 357 mag. If I ever managed to wear it out, they can be fitted with oversize links to take up worn headspace. Id also be quite happy with a Browning 92 or Miroku/Winchester 92 carbine in 357 and not look back. Either would likely end up cut to 16 or 17 inches. Im planning to cut the Browning 92 44 to 17 inches when the time is right.

Malamute,thank you sir.Would you consider one of the Italian 1873 clones,if not,would you please tell us why?Thank you again.

[Malamute]

Malamute,thank you sir.Would you consider one of the Italian 1873 clones,if not,would you please tell us why?Thank you again.

I would, but would prefer a Miroku gun if possible. Steve I believe, also mentioned seeing a number of Uberti guns come in that had the barrels loctited in, as they didnt index correctly, and rather than use a different barrel or fit one, they just loctitied them into index. Their screws have been soft in the past, it may have been improved recently. I believe fatdog has more experience or information in the use of the italian guns from cowboy action competition hes been involved with.

Most of them are probably OK, but the fact that some arent, and ive heard of zero such problems with Miroku guns, pushes me in that direction, particularly since the cost is about identical, if not cheaper in the case of some models of Miroku 73 short rifles, if one can adapt to the deep crescent butt plate, which puts me off that type. They seem to work for other people. just not well for me.

[Lester Polfus]

I was perusing 1873s the other day, and found that the eye-talian clones are usually within $100 to $200 of the Winchester when it comes to new prices. The Winchesters hold their value much better on the used market it seems.

The color case hardened Winchesters are disproportionately more expensive than the Italian jobs, but my understanding is that the Winchester case hardening is more authentic in some way.

I've not delved too deeply into it. Currently, I'm not buying "nice" guns just to own. Pretty much anything I own is subject to being dragged through the pucker brush in the rain.

Soon as we make that last house payment though, thats going to change.

[Malamute]

... Currently, I'm not buying "nice" guns just to own. Pretty much anything I own is subject to being dragged through the pucker brush in the rain.
.


Agree. Ive heard some negative comments on what Ive done to various guns, like drilling and tapping Brownings for receiver sights and sling mounts, filing a high spot down on the grip frame of a stubborn model 29 Smith that no grips fit well, cutting Browning barrels,....

I appreciate fine tools or guns, but if they dont do what I need, or I regard them as too fragile or precious to use, they have little practical use. I try to take care of stuff but am not the least bit afraid to use them and modify them as needed to make them more useful to me. Their value is enhanced if they work better for my needs or can be used anywhere. I accept the supposed financial loss from modifications or wear, but that only matters if I sell one.

Im not certain, but I believe the case hardening on the Winchesters may be real (as in the same type as original Winchesters and Colts), and that on the italians either cyanide type or whatever, but not the same as originals or the Mirokus.

[RONK]

Malamute,thank you again sir.I also don't care for the crescent stock on the Winchesters,that coupled with the barrel having to be gut down to 16",at this time,I'm staying with Marlin.It's unfortunate that Winchester doesn't offer the variations that we'd be interested in.

[Malamute]

Malamute,thank you again sir.I also don't care for the crescent stock on the Winchesters,that coupled with the barrel having to be gut down to 16",at this time,I'm staying with Marlin.It's unfortunate that Winchester doesn't offer the variations that we'd be interested in.


We all have to choose what works for us. The Marlins are pretty decent guns.

If one is handy with tools, or knows a fair gunsmith that doesnt charge extremely high amounts for very basic work, cutting them down isnt too dramatic. Ive cut one Winchester 94 down myself in the basement, the only thing i chose not to do myself was re-dovetail the front sight. A gunsmith I know said hed charge $40 to do that.

The muzzle can be squared up with a lee case trimmer pilot turned down to fit the bore snugly. Use a sharpie to blacken the muzzle, turn the cutter to mark the high spots, file it, repeat until square, gently bevel the inside edge with a sharp counter sink and file the outside to a bevel, then cold blue or sharpie it black.

I like the short rifle format for the most part, but the old time crescent style doesnt work well for me at all. Ive considered re-shaping the butt plate with heat and pushing the toe of the stock forward an inch or more to lower the shoulder cup of the butt plate, and reduce the long pokey toe. I had a Browning 86 rifle stock I had the crescent chopped off and a flat pad installed, but the crescent stocks had a thinner profile than other styles, so the end result isnt the same as an actual shotgun type butt or even an early carbine type. Its till a huge improvement in handling though and was well worthwhile. The 86 carbine stock are fine, the actual shotgun butts the best of all of them though. Taller comb, thicker profile, flat butt plate, its basically what most stocks evolved to over time. The 1886 extra-lightweight has them, they are great stocks.

Some of the older commemorative Winchester 94s had crescent shaped butts, but the geometry was different, and shallower, and they actually feel pretty decent to me, not the feeling that the comb of the stock is being dropped out from under my cheek when the stock finds its resting point in quick use.

[03RN]

My first lever at about 12 was a winchester 30-30 cross bolt safety. I liked it. No real issues.
Marlin stainless .44 mag about 15 years ago iirc. I liked it a lot.
Winchester 94 20" canadian centennial.
I dont have those anymore and regret letting the Marlin go.

I do still have a 16" puma 92 in .45 colt and i just picked up a 20" rossi in .357.

The .45 has killed a lot of deer. I have a ton of ammo through it. Lots of 250gr swc over 18gr 2400 and a lot of 335gr wn-fp at max loads. Iirc its like 1600fps.

I also have a bunch of 250gr xtps over 2400 as well. Shoots to the same poi. Just in case.

Ive got xs front stripe sights on them. Awesome sights.

My .357 will shoot 158gr jsp AE factory loads, 158gr swc over 13.5 2400, 140gr xtps over 9gr unique, 130gr jsp over 9 gr unique all in the same 3x5 index card at 50 yards. I was excited at the consistency.

The m92s are significantly better handling than any of the more modern guns imo.

[03RN]

https://youtu.be/CzrxHjX7eWo

https://youtu.be/0dMXKHUxjgQ

https://youtu.be/JZ-Tfq_bRSU
The handgun videos represent 150 yards for the 180gr and 200 for the 158gr.

[fatdog]

I believe fatdog has more experience or information in the use of the italian guns from cowboy action competition hes been involved with. .

I have several Uberti '73's, chambered in both .357 and .45LC and they have all been great fast accurate and reliable competition guns. The '73 action is without question smoother and faster than all the other lever guns, which is why it is popular in CAS.

The Uberti .357 version is just as happy if you feed it .38 special cases or .357 cases and I can tell you that is not the case with my '92 Rossi which wants to eat .357 brass loads only.

Despite my good Uberti experiences, if I were going to buy a new one for general purpose use and it was not for the NCOWS side of CAS, I would get the Japanese made Winchester '73 for sure. It was built with the short stroke action (making it NCOWS illegal but preferred configuration for SASS). I believe it has better metallurgy from the examples I have seen and shot.

I will have to say I think all of the Winchester '92 pattern and the Marlin 1894 rifles are stronger actions for sure. Uberti imported a .44 Magnum version of their '73 carbine for a while but they mostly disappeared from the market. I don't think the toggle length stands up very well to full power .44 magnums or certainly not the .45 Casul but the '92 actions certainly will.

The other thing to know about the '73's is that the timing of the action is quite complex. Your average gunsmith might not be successful either adjusting, or for that matter depending on what breaks, fixing one. There are a handful of gunsmiths, probably less than half a dozen, who have long served the CAS community who do the '73 tuning well.

[Clusterfrack]

I have a 94 Trapper .44 Mag that I inherited from my dad. It’s a handy little gun.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200218/63941a30cc73bb49739a1c91036e8f7b.file

[vaspence]

Marlin CST .357
This is a fun rifle with 158 FMJ .38s and the can, very quiet. Quite handy without the can and 158gr .357 also.


48871

[paul105]

Just a few random thoughts.

I have two 357s - An 18" Marlin 1894 and a 16" stainless Rossi '92.

If you want to mount optics, the Marlin makes it a lot easier.

The .357 is very versatile - 125s at 2,150 fps and 180 (buff bore) at 1,894 fps (actual from 16" rossi on my Labradar).

The .357 is fun to shoot.

The difference in recoil between the .357 and .44 Mag is significant.

I've had revolver caliber Marlins in 32-20, .357, .44Mag and .45 Colt and Rossi.s in .357, .44 Mag, and .454 Casul

Still have the .357s, rossi .44 and .454.

Just my experiece.

Good luck on your choice.

Paul

[4given]

Just a few random thoughts.

I have two 357s - An 18" Marlin 1894 and a 16" stainless Rossi '92.

If you want to mount optics, the Marlin makes it a lot easier.

The .357 is very versatile - 125s at 2,150 fps and 180 (buff bore) at 1,894 fps (actual from 16" rossi on my Labradar).

The .357 is fun to shoot.

The difference in recoil between the .357 and .44 Mag is significant.

I've had revolver caliber Marlins in 32-20, .357, .44Mag and .45 Colt and Rossi.s in .357, .44 Mag, and .454 Casul

Still have the .357s, rossi .44 and .454.

Just my experiece.

Good luck on your choice.

Paul

Do you have a preference between the Marlin 1894 and the Rossi?

[paul105]

I'm a big fan of the 92 (Rossi) platform - action just feels smoother (after some use) to me, gun feels more compact and handier, and the ones I've had seem more accurate. Small sample, I know and an abundance of personal preference.

My Marlin has a Bob Munden action job and I still prefer the Rossi -- again personal preference.

Again, the Rossi sights are pretty crude and probably require some gunsmithing to upgrade. Both Skinner Sights and Nate Kiowa Jones (stevesgunz.com) give you some options.

Pretty much comes down to personal preference and how much effort you want to put into sight options.

Big game hunting with the Rossi .454 - LOL.

https://photos.imageevent.com/paul105/huntingpics/large/RIMG1065.jpg

Paul

[4given]

So what about the funky little safety on the Rossi 92? Does it function all right? It looks like it might be hard to manipulate especially under stress. What year did they start putting those on? So far I’m kind of liking the Rossi for it size. I like the marlin too but I know that late models have that cross safety that some folks like and some don’t.

[paul105]

It works fine. Use it, ignore it, remove it, or replace it with peep sight made for the hole ( https://store.stevesgunz.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=87&zenid=ngrmbu8k78f620nbuq2amgap37 ). It's in an odd location and not conducive to rapid disengagement.

I just ignore it but have one of stevesgunz peeps to replace it with - just haven't got to it.

I think it was Jeff Cooper who said leave the chamber empty and jack a round into the chamber as you shoulder the weapon. Or -- many ways to skin the cat.

Don't know when it was added.

I think you can replace the Marlin Cross Bolt with a screw or Saddle Ring. Found it https://beartoothmercantile.com/basic-safety-delete-for-marlin-rifle/ and https://beartoothmercantile.com/saddle-ring/

Paul

[4given]

It works fine. Use it, ignore it, remove it, or replace it with peep sight made for the hole ( https://store.stevesgunz.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=87&zenid=ngrmbu8k78f620nbuq2amgap37 ). It's in an odd location and not conducive to rapid disengagement.

I just ignore it but have one of stevesgunz peeps to replace it with - just haven't got to it.

I think it was Jeff Cooper who said leave the chamber empty and jack a round into the chamber as you shoulder the weapon. Or -- many ways to skin the cat.

Don't know when it was added.

I think you can replace the Marlin Cross Bolt with a screw or Saddle Ring. Found it https://beartoothmercantile.com/basic-safety-delete-for-marlin-rifle/ and https://beartoothmercantile.com/saddle-ring/

Paul

Thanks for the input and the links!

[paul105]

Whatever you decide on, it's a good idea to replace the plastic magazine follower with a metal one. Beartooth Mercantile linked above offers them for both Marlin and Rossi.

Don't think you can go wrong with either one.

Enjoy the journey.

Paul

[OlongJohnson]

What is the issue with the plastic follower, other than getting cleaning solvent it doesn't like in the tube? Do they come apart or stick?

I was kind of a skeptic on the "half cock" setup for Marlins until I had my 1894 apart and understood how it actually works. (Also, the hammer in mine had been dropped, damaging the half-cock catch and didn't really work right until I fixed it.) With the half-cock feature functioning, the crossbolt safety truly is as superfluous as Krusty's third nipple.

[whomever]

"I think you can replace the Marlin Cross Bolt with a screw or Saddle Ring. "

If you put an appropriately sized O-ring on the cross bolt safety it will immobilize it, but you can revert to OEM condition by removing the O-ring.

[paul105]

What is the issue with the plastic follower, other than getting cleaning solvent it doesn't like in the tube? Do they come apart or............


Per stevesgunz "The plastic tends to swell, crack and hang up with time."


Paul

[Poconnor]

I just traded a few guns for a new 1894CST .357mag. I can’t believe I paid $955 bucks for a lever action but if it’s a good one I won’t care. I plan on getting a form 1 suppressor for it and a red dot; and then shooting it a lot. The beartooth mercantile safety to saddle ring replacement pushed me over the edge

[Bigghoss]

Garand Thumb did a video on the Marlin 1894 CSG a few months back and he liked it.

[4given]

One thing had not considered about a lever gun for use in California is most places of hoplophobia also forbid weapons to be transported loaded or ammo attached. When I will need to transport the rifle in my vehicle it has to be unloaded and in a locked case. Lever guns are kind of a pain to load and unload. Not a deal breaker but it is a consideration.

[OlongJohnson]

Yeah. The Fightlite SCR makes some sense in that state. I believe it, like the Mini 14, bypasses the eevil pistol grip rule.

CA is not the only place that forbids vehicular transport of loaded long guns. Quite a few people have "pistol" ARs for that reason. However, CA's AWB captures any handgun that doesn't feed the magazine through the grip. I also believe the "trunk of the vehicle" if it is not accessible from the passenger compartment counts as a locked case for the vehicular transport rule.

Maybe one of those long-tube speed loaders for the lever gun would solve that problem to get it into action faster. http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/rubiconspeedloader.htm

[Lester Polfus]

One thing had not considered about a lever gun for use in California is most places of hoplophobia also forbid weapons to be transported loaded or ammo attached. When I will need to transport the rifle in my vehicle it has to be unloaded and in a locked case. Lever guns are kind of a pain to load and unload. Not a deal breaker but it is a consideration.

I think in that case I'd go for a box magazine fed bolt action rifle.

My 1894c shoots as fast as lightening but she loads a mite slow

[Maple Syrup Actual]

One thing had not considered about a lever gun for use in California is most places of hoplophobia also forbid weapons to be transported loaded or ammo attached. When I will need to transport the rifle in my vehicle it has to be unloaded and in a locked case. Lever guns are kind of a pain to load and unload. Not a deal breaker but it is a consideration.

This is a really good point and exactly why I don't use my Rossi 92 as a truck gun or house gun or whatever. I use a Valtro PM 5, in fact, precisely because I can keep the ammo separate.

[OlongJohnson]

I've read in the past that plastic shells have a tendency to deform and take a set if left loaded in a box magazine for a long time, which can cause feeding issues. I've been waiting for reports of that issue to surface with the Remington. Any issues on your Valtro?

[Totem Polar]

One thing had not considered about a lever gun for use in California is most places of hoplophobia also forbid weapons to be transported loaded or ammo attached. When I will need to transport the rifle in my vehicle it has to be unloaded and in a locked case. Lever guns are kind of a pain to load and unload. Not a deal breaker but it is a consideration.

This wrinkle makes the Henry levers look a bit more attractive, because you can dump the tube in a jiffy by pulling the tube spring assembly. Either that, or:

[medmo]

+1 on Marlin. I have a 94c 357 mag and a 94cb in 44 mag. Both are reliable, accurate and a pleasure to shoot. I have XS Sights on both of them. Another +1 for the 1894 XS Sights.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I've read in the past that plastic shells have a tendency to deform and take a set if left loaded in a box magazine for a long time, which can cause feeding issues. I've been waiting for reports of that issue to surface with the Remington. Any issues on your Valtro?

Never seen it but wouldn't dispute the possibility...a mag of buck won't break the bank though so mine just gets shot once in a while.

[03RN]

I think in that case I'd go for a box magazine fed bolt action rifle.


Or an M1.

[jandbj]

I think in that case I'd go for a box magazine fed bolt action rifle.

Browning BLR in .223 or .308

[4given]

Browning BLR in .223 or .308

Or a Savage 99c in .243 Win :cool: 4 round detachable mag ... :(

[4given]

This wrinkle makes the Henry levers look a bit more attractive, because you can dump the tube in a jiffy by pulling the tube spring assembly. Either that, or:

The Ruger 77/357 is pretty neat but now we are down to a five round mag. Life is full of compromises it seems..... I'll take a closer look at the Henry's ...

[4given]

Browning BLR in .223 or .308

Nice Rifle 4 round mag :(

[Lester Polfus]

The Ruger 77/357 is pretty neat but now we are down to a five round mag. Life is full of compromises it seems..... I'll take a closer look at the Henry's ...

I live in a pretty rural area, but honestly quickly deploying a long gun out of a vehicle is a pretty low priority for me on a day to day basis.

If the North Korean paratroopers are getting dropped in my valley, then I'll just drive around with the rifle loaded, because likely the sheriffs office will have other things to do.

For a civilian rifle fight, rationally I want to say five rounds has a pretty good chance of being "enough," but my gut says I want more rounds just in case.

My issue with the magazine fed lever guns, like the Savage 99, BLR and Long Ranger is that I'm not sure how well they will hold up to a training regimen of thousands of rounds. They are great hunting rifles but not quite what I'm looking for.

If speed of loading and reloading is a concern, and a semi-auto is off the table, something like a Ruger Scout starts to look attractive to me.

[whomever]

"The Ruger 77/357 is pretty neat but now we are down to a five round mag."

One of the Ruger American Ranch ones that takes AR (or AICS or mini-30, depending on caliber) mags might be a nice option.

[4given]

I live in a pretty rural area, but honestly quickly deploying a long gun out of a vehicle is a pretty low priority for me on a day to day basis.

If the North Korean paratroopers are getting dropped in my valley, then I'll just drive around with the rifle loaded, because likely the sheriffs office will have other things to do.

For a civilian rifle fight, rationally I want to say five rounds has a pretty good chance of being "enough," but my gut says I want more rounds just in case.

My issue with the magazine fed lever guns, like the Savage 99, BLR and Long Ranger is that I'm not sure how well they will hold up to a training regimen of thousands of rounds. They are great hunting rifles but not quite what I'm looking for.

If speed of loading and reloading is a concern, and a semi-auto is off the table, something like a Ruger Scout starts to look attractive to me.

Actually, speed of unloading / reloading for the rifle I choose for my purpose is not a big deal, just a convenience issue. It will mostly be a camp gun that stays inside the RV unless it goes out into the desert with me to shoot some targets. Needs to be fairly capable for defensive purposes should the need arise God forbid. Not sure of the Cali-rules if I decide to take it out on an ATV trail ride.

I think size, weight, fast handling, decent accuracy and capacity in a capable pistol cambering are my main criteria.

[4given]

"The Ruger 77/357 is pretty neat but now we are down to a five round mag."

One of the Ruger American Ranch ones that takes AR (or AICS or mini-30, depending on caliber) mags might be a nice option.

I wasn’t aware of these. I’ll take a look

[iveschris]

I had poor luck with a RemLin (all of this took place in SE PA) and wouldn't do that again (in fact traded at a loss). Cosmetics were border line but nothing lined up when I started to put the "usual suspects" of XS sights accessories aboard.
But, karmic balance reared it's elegance in design: a pre-lock, Rossi (Interarms imported) jumped out and I've had to do nothing but shoot it and long for a good aperture sight. This gun's not only a tack driver but recoil seems almost like a gallery gun. The most accurate load is the Black Hills, red-box 158gr JHPs.

[Bigghoss]

It's a real shame the Remington 7615 isn't as durable as it ought to be. That would be a great ban-state rifle if it weren't just a cool looking hunting rifle

[OlongJohnson]

Do standard 870 upgrades apply to the 7615?

[jandbj]

But, karmic balance reared it's elegance in design: a pre-lock, Rossi (Interarms imported) jumped out and I've had to do nothing but shoot it and long for a good aperture sight. This gun's not only a tack driver but recoil seems almost like a gallery gun. The most accurate load is the Black Hills, red-box 158gr JHPs.

I had my old Puma in 357 tapped for a Williams 5D peep. Works with the stock front too.

I’ll likely have an XS white stripe front dovetailed in at some point as my factory front is integral to the barrel band and irritatingly was made slightly off center... it’s accurate as is but visually... obtuse to me.

[Bigghoss]

Do standard 870 upgrades apply to the 7615?

I know you can use 870 furniture but I don't think there's anything that can be done for the internals.

[4given]

SO ... I am really starting to gravitate toward the Rossi 92. I'd like to handle one in 16" and 20". I have a feeling the difference in barrel length wont matter much to me but you never know. I doubt any nearby LGS will have one in stock for me to fondle.

Which iteration of these would be the best built? Interarms, current Braztech or what ever else there is? The safety on the newer ones turn me off. I know you can replace it with a peep site but I wonder about liability if it had to be deployed in defensive manner.

[4given]

What s this dreaded "Marlin Jam" I keep reading about on the interwebs? Fact or myth? Rare or common?

[Poconnor]

I picked up my marlin 1894 CST. I really like it. I will be ordering a saddle ring to replace the cross bolt safety. I want to add an Aimpoint T1 but I don’t want to mount it on the receiver. I am trying to keep the center clear. I want to mount it on the barrel using the dovetail for the rear sight. Any suggestions besides the XS scout rail?

[Malamute]

What s this dreaded "Marlin Jam" I keep reading about on the interwebs? Fact or myth? Rare or common?

Its a fact, not sure of how common, but common enough there seems to be plenty of people that have had it happen.

I dont know the details, Ive seen it mentioned numerous times on the leverguns forum. The Marlin owners forum may be a good place to find out also. There may be a preemptive fix, I dont recall details, as Im not a regular Marlin user.

[jandbj]

I picked up my marlin 1894 CST. I really like it. I will be ordering a saddle ring to replace the cross bolt safety. I want to add an Aimpoint T1 but I don’t want to mount it on the receiver. I am trying to keep the center clear. I want to mount it on the barrel using the dovetail for the rear sight. Any suggestions besides the XS scout rail?

http://www.skinnersights.com/scope_mounts_31.html

Somewhere in that list is a rear sight dovetail pic rail... no personal experience but I recalled seeing it before.

[Johnny Walker]

With GJM on this for a camping gun, a pistol caliber is probably fine where you are going,but the .45-70 is enough of a "camp gun" for anywhere in the lower 48. I got a part from Beartooth Mercantile to replace the silly crossbolt safety. I prefer 405gr hardcast loaded at "cowboy" velocities, mine run about 1250 fps from this little beast and I find those quite tolerable, several manufacturers like HSM make loads in that range. Hill People stock saddle and XS rear sight.

48747

My second choice would be some form of '92 in .44 Magnum or my Benelli M1S90 with slugs.

I really want one of those Chiappa takedown '92's at some point. Something I could fly with that does not have to go in a separate "this is a rifle" case through the luggage systems.

Fatdog or in my part of heaven on earth.. "Fatdawg"!

That peep rear pairs up fine with the stock marlin front sight?!! That is an intriguing set up you have.. is that the 1895GBL you have there?? That combo would work for anything in the lower 48 and be right handy to boot....

[fatdog]

That peep rear pairs up fine with the stock marlin front sight?!! is that the 1895GBL you have there??

Nah, I had to drift in a slightly taller front sight into their dovetail, picked one up from brownells but it was the same type gold bead front that came with the gun. The rear is an XS and if I had to do it over I would have purchased the set that is their front (including the base) and rear set. It would have been easier than fitting the whole front dovetail. Had to put a filler in the factory rear sight slot. The gun is the GBL (https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/marlin-1895-guide-big-loop-45-70-government-lever-action-rifle#repChildCatid=4847534) and Academy put them on sale a couple of years ago for $499, I could not resist. The loading gate was quite stiff and needed some serious lightening, but the sum of "fixes" were the sights, the gate fix and the Beartooth Mercantile replacement for the cross bolt safety.

[03RN]

Just an fyi. A M1 cartridge belt will hold 20 speed strips perfectly:cool:

[4given]

Deleted to make new thread

[OlongJohnson]

It's a real shame the Remington 7615 isn't as durable as it ought to be. That would be a great ban-state rifle if it weren't just a cool looking hunting rifle

Wow. Lucky week for this seller. Currently at $1225.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/860248016

[OlongJohnson]

Closed at $1525.15.

Wow. Maybe Remington can put them back into production and dig out of bankruptcy.

[Shoresy]

Closed at $1525.15.

Wow. Maybe Remington can put them back into production and dig out of bankruptcy.

That would knowledge of the customer and taking on some risk, neither of which are in Remington's (current) character.

[4given]

My Skinner peep sight came in yesterday. I hope to install and test it this weekend. I'll keep you all posted.

[4given]

48725

Crappy cell phone pic is the best I can do at the moment...

Lester, where did you get your shell holder? Do the loops hold 357 ok? Inn having problems finding one "off the shelf" with loops for .38/.357 ammo

[Lester Polfus]

Lester, where did you get your shell holder? Do the loops hold 357 ok? Inn having problems finding one "off the shelf" with loops for .38/.357 ammo

It's the Hill People Gear stock cuff and I love it. It's their model for .30 caliber rounds, but it holds .357 perfectly. All of the nylon stock cuffs I've tried have been crap. I live in SW Washington where it rains for a good chunk of their year, and I'd rather not deal with leather.

The HPG model is made of hypalon and is perfect. It doesn't slip, holds the round securely, but also gives them up when I need them.

Since I took that picture, I've installed a HPG Levergun Light Mount as well. It's spendy for what it is, but it works perfectly as well.

[4given]

It's the Hill People Gear stock cuff and I love it. It's their model for .30 caliber rounds, but it holds .357 perfectly. All of the nylon stock cuffs I've tried have been crap. I live in SW Washington where it rains for a good chunk of their year, and I'd rather not deal with leather.

The HPG model is made of hypalon and is perfect. It doesn't slip, holds the round securely, but also gives them up when I need them.

Since I took that picture, I've installed a HPG Levergun Light Mount as well. It's spendy for what it is, but it works perfectly as well.

Thanks! I’ll take a look at them! I live in SW Idaho where we have all 4 seasons in 1 day!

[TCinVA]

What s this dreaded "Marlin Jam" I keep reading about on the interwebs? Fact or myth? Rare or common?

I just purchased a JM stamped 1894 in .44 magnum. It was non-functional when I received it because the carrier was so buggered up. The cartridge stop sheared off and the resulting mess was sufficient to stop the carrier from moving when the action was worked.

The gun clearly had not been used heavily or fired very much. I suspect it was in the gun shop I bought it from (through Gunbroker) because the prior owner didn't know what was wrong, how to fix it, and didn't want to bother trying. I replaced it with a new style carrier from Brownells and she works like a champ now.

That, of course, isn't the "jam". What happens is that at a certain point the carrier can wear enough that the lever is no longer moving it down far enough to receive another cartridge from the magazine properly, but still up enough that it's no longer holding the cartridge in place. When this happens the cartridge backs out against the carrier and freezes it in place, locking up the action. The angle on the lever where it engages the carrier can be reworked a bit to solve this. You can also replace the carrier...which, given the rather complicated arrangement found on older style carriers is probably a good idea anyway if you want to use the gun seriously.

In a lever action the carrier performs the same function as the shell stops in a pump shotgun. Shell stops in a pump shotgun are wear items and will need to be replaced from time to time. Same is likely going to be true for the carrier in a lever gun.

Lever guns are a lot like revolvers in that people own them but don't shoot them very much and, as a result, don't understand their frailties.

The pistol caliber lever guns tend to be quite picky about what type of ammo you feed them. They need their screws checked regularly (failing to keep screws tight accelerates wear) and they need to be maintained by somebody who has an idea of how they actually work. So few people out there have met those requirements that, just like revolvers, used guns people pick up are often abused and overdue for critical maintenance and armorer-level work.

[4given]

I just purchased a JM stamped 1894 in .44 magnum. It was non-functional when I received it because the carrier was so buggered up. The cartridge stop sheared off and the resulting mess was sufficient to stop the carrier from moving when the action was worked.

The gun clearly had not been used heavily or fired very much. I suspect it was in the gun shop I bought it from (through Gunbroker) because the prior owner didn't know what was wrong, how to fix it, and didn't want to bother trying. I replaced it with a new style carrier from Brownells and she works like a champ now.

That, of course, isn't the "jam". What happens is that at a certain point the carrier can wear enough that the lever is no longer moving it down far enough to receive another cartridge from the magazine properly, but still up enough that it's no longer holding the cartridge in place. When this happens the cartridge backs out against the carrier and freezes it in place, locking up the action. The angle on the lever where it engages the carrier can be reworked a bit to solve this. You can also replace the carrier...which, given the rather complicated arrangement found on older style carriers is probably a good idea anyway if you want to use the gun seriously.

In a lever action the carrier performs the same function as the shell stops in a pump shotgun. Shell stops in a pump shotgun are wear items and will need to be replaced from time to time. Same is likely going to be true for the carrier in a lever gun.

Lever guns are a lot like revolvers in that people own them but don't shoot them very much and, as a result, don't understand their frailties.

The pistol caliber lever guns tend to be quite picky about what type of ammo you feed them. They need their screws checked regularly (failing to keep screws tight accelerates wear) and they need to be maintained by somebody who has an idea of how they actually work. So few people out there have met those requirements that, just like revolvers, used guns people pick up are often abused and overdue for critical maintenance and armorer-level work.

Thanks fir the tips! which screws are you talking about keeping tight? The ones on the side or the receiver or..? Is there a good youtube video on replacing the carrier? My JM Marlin has not seen much use .... yet ... :cool: ..... but it would be good to know how to do for down the road. I'm not going to be Cowboy action shooting with it but I will want to be able to rely on it as a defensive weapon at some point. That is the main reason for this whole exercise.

[TCinVA]

Thanks fir the tips! which screws are you talking about keeping tight? The ones on the side or the receiver or..?

All of them, really. You should check to make sure all of them stay tight. The screws that serve as the pivot for the lever, the hammer, and the carrier are the main ones. That and the screw that holds the plug at the end of the magazine tube.



Is there a good youtube video on replacing the carrier? My JM Marlin has not seen much use .... yet ... :cool: ..... but it would be good to know how to do for down the road. I'm not going to be Cowboy action shooting with it but I will want to be able to rely on it as a defensive weapon at some point. That is the main reason for this whole exercise.


https://youtu.be/0CK_Hf-OJWo

[OlongJohnson]

This is where I've found much of my useful 1894 info:

https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/1894/

Burrow around through the links there with all this free time you have.

Remember, it's a gun forum...

[4given]

All of them, really. You should check to make sure all of them stay tight. The screws that serve as the pivot for the lever, the hammer, and the carrier are the main ones. That and the screw that holds the plug at the end of the magazine tube.




https://youtu.be/0CK_Hf-OJWo

Nice! Thanks a bundle!

[4given]

This is where I've found much of my useful 1894 info:

https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/1894/

Burrow around through the links there with all this free time you have.

Remember, it's a gun forum...


Thanks for the link! Actually I'm still one of the few still working.

[Lost River]

https://i.imgur.com/GoEetfh.jpg


I took my 1894 .44 out a couple days ago. The loads I had with me were not overly impressive, so I did not take pics. I am going to load up some powder coated bullets next, along with some jacketed. I know it likes jacketed loads. I will also take some hard cast loads with H110 rather than my standard Unique I normally shoot and see how it does with those. It has been a while since I fiddled with this carbine and I am questioning my memory on which non jacketed loads I recall it liked. I really need to start taking notes, as I just cannot remember things apparently due to getting my brain rattled overseas a few times, or I am a tard.. .:rolleyes:

Anyways, I also took out my 336 16" LTS "Marauder" 30-30 and it while it did not like a cast bullet handload I made for it, I understand why. I loaded with Varget, and was pushing it too fast, which often will cause the projectile to skid down the bore instead of catching the lands and grooves. The 165 grain bullets needed to either have gas checks attached to the bullets or choose a powder that provided a slower velocity. I figured the load was in the 1800 fps range. That particular part of load development was a no-go, but it was good to know. The next batch I will likely just load 10 grains Unique and see what kind of results I get.

The factory ammo for that particular rifle shot very well. I had some really old Rem Core-Lokts and some newer Federal stuff, both 170 grain. Both shot very well. While I did not bring a Chrono with me, it was obvious using highly technical equipment (my shoulder and the muzzle blast) that the Fed stuff was quite a bit hotter. I only had about 10 rounds of Remington and it was pretty soft shooting and it shot a nice cluster. The first time I touched off one of the Federal rounds the recoil was significantly more and even in daylight I could see an orange ball of flame from the muzzle. They are quite a bit warmer. Just a guess, but I bet there is a solid 150-200 fps between the two.

The Federal shot very well. I was shooting over the hood of my old Land Cruiser using an old folded up blanket and this is the result at 150 yards.

https://i.imgur.com/9oFzvvd.jpg


I ended up adjusting and zeroing for 150. The interesting part is there was pretty much no significant drop between 100 and 150.

I figured from about 175 yards or so and in, it is pretty much a "point and shoot" type gun for deer size objects.



https://i.imgur.com/OrIPK7C.jpg



CHEERS Friends!

[03RN]

I love those old straight grip marlins

[JTMcC]

https://i.imgur.com/GoEetfh.jpg


I took my 1894 .44 out a couple days ago. The loads I had with me were not overly impressive, so I did not take pics. I am going to load up some powder coated bullets next, along with some jacketed. I know it likes jacketed loads. I will also take some hard cast loads with H110 rather than my standard Unique I normally shoot and see how it does with those. It has been a while since I fiddled with this carbine and I am questioning my memory on which non jacketed loads I recall it liked. I really need to start taking notes, as I just cannot remember things apparently due to getting my brain rattled overseas a few times, or I am a tard.. .:rolleyes:

Anyways, I also took out my 336 16" LTS "Marauder" 30-30 and it while it did not like a cast bullet handload I made for it, I understand why. I loaded with Varget, and was pushing it too fast, which often will cause the projectile to skid down the bore instead of catching the lands and grooves. The 165 grain bullets needed to either have gas checks attached to the bullets or choose a powder that provided a slower velocity. I figured the load was in the 1800 fps range. That particular part of load development was a no-go, but it was good to know. The next batch I will likely just load 10 grains Unique and see what kind of results I get.

The factory ammo for that particular rifle shot very well. I had some really old Rem Core-Lokts and some newer Federal stuff, both 170 grain. Both shot very well. While I did not bring a Chrono with me, it was obvious using highly technical equipment (my shoulder and the muzzle blast) that the Fed stuff was quite a bit hotter. I only had about 10 rounds of Remington and it was pretty soft shooting and it shot a nice cluster. The first time I touched off one of the Federal rounds the recoil was significantly more and even in daylight I could see an orange ball of flame from the muzzle. They are quite a bit warmer. Just a guess, but I bet there is a solid 150-200 fps between the two.

The Federal shot very well. I was shooting over the hood of my old Land Cruiser using an old folded up blanket and this is the result at 150 yards.

https://i.imgur.com/9oFzvvd.jpg


I ended up adjusting and zeroing for 150. The interesting part is there was pretty much no significant drop between 100 and 150.

I figured from about 175 yards or so and in, it is pretty much a "point and shoot" type gun for deer size objects.



https://i.imgur.com/OrIPK7C.jpg



CHEERS Friends!

Mercy. When/if the zombies come, the Mad Max apocylips happens you can do a lot of work with those rifles.
In the mean time, you can do a lot of work with those rifles

[Lost River]

16" straight stocked Trappers are handy and potent little carbines. They are at home in pickups, 4 wheelers, strapped to saddles, motorcycles, or backpacks. They carry very naturally and can handle most chores that need done if the shooter is up to the task.

Mine wear simple 4x compact American made Burris scopes and that is really all I need for what I am going to do with them.

I was just talking to a friend today and was considering dusting off my KLR 650 enduro bike as soon as my hand heals (carpal tunnel surgery 3 weeks ago) and strapping one of the trappers to it as my traveling companion, and taking a ride for a couple days into the hills as soon as the snow melts off in the high country a bit more.

Beats going crazy with cabin fever!



https://i.imgur.com/dbqIyLZ.jpg

[03RN]

I once did a 3 month canoe/hike/hunt trip with my walker Jack. I fed us with my single six, blackhawkb and 16" .45 m92.

That m92 has been run pretty ragged. Im not sure whats causing the accuracy issues right now but it used to be a nail driver. Well, 4 moa. Now im not so sure. I need to some work with it.

[entropy]

The issue I ran into with cast bullets in 30-30 was profile and barrel throat. On the older Winchester’s, the throat tends to be very shallow, which causes issues with chambering. The only bullets that tend to be free of the issue are the lighter (125gr) varieties which in my case, tend to be in accurate. I did mess with Unique a bit, but while accuracy was decent, leading was not.

[Lost River]

I once did a 3 month canoe/hike/hunt trip with my walker Jack. I fed us with my single six, blackhawkb and 16" .45 m92.

That m92 has been run pretty ragged. Im not sure whats causing the accuracy issues right now but it used to be a nail driver. Well, 4 moa. Now im not so sure. I need to some work with it.

A 3 month long trip with just a dog, a carbine and a sidearm would be heaven..

I know some places where I could flat disappear in the back country.

Not really a likelihood with minions these days, but sure sounds good.

Even a couple weeks would do wonders for the soul.

https://i.imgur.com/EsfEtPx.jpg

[03RN]

51286
51287
51288
Glock and AK on this trip:(
51289
Our everyday boat trip for 10 years
51290

Jacks gone and my son is almost 2. I cant wait untill i can take him out in the woods for a couple weeks:)

[Lost River]

Those pics are all kinds of awesome. I'd make sure there are plenty of digital copies around for future generations. :cool:

[WDR]

https://i.imgur.com/EsfEtPx.jpg


Photos like that make me hope this virus crud is sorted out before midsummer... I need to go wander around and stretch my legs. Being cooped lately up is murder on my soul.

[03RN]

Those pics are all kinds of awesome. I'd make sure there are plenty of digital copies around for future generations. :cool:

That book has most of his life. My son likes to look at it.

I got him a hound looking beanie baby from tractorsupply that he sleeps with. I cant wait untill hes older to train a dog with.

But that dog was special. Ive never spent 24hrs a day for 10years with anything and he was just so good in the woods. Especially after he spent 30hrs tied to a stump and through a thunderstorm:o

He could start running a bull moose but would stop when i called him.

[Rex G]

I just put a youth-length stock on my Winchester ‘94 AE Trapper 16” carbine, resulting in a package very little longer than my 10-point-something-inch Daniel Defense DDM4V7P, with its LAW folder extended. LAW folders surely do result in a chunky package, when folded. For that matter, a Winchester Trapper is noticeably less-wide, comparatively, even when an AR-based weapon does not have its buffer tube folded.

Winchester Trapper carbines, in the PDW business since the Nineties. The Eighteen-Nineties. :)

[Redhat]

I just put a youth-length stock on my Winchester ‘94 AE Trapper 16” carbine, resulting in a package very little longer than my 10-point-something-inch Daniel Defense DDM4V7P, with its LAW folder extended. LAW folders surely do result in a chunky package, when folded. For that matter, a Winchester Trapper is noticeably less-wide, comparatively, even when an AR-based weapon does not have its buffer tube folded.

Winchester Trapper carbines, in the PDW business since the Nineties. The Eighteen-Nineties. :)

What caliber?

[Rex G]

What caliber?

.45 Colt.

The youth stock is actually not much shorter than the factory stock, but it is just a bit shorter, and the pad is hard rubber, which is better than the slick plastic factory butt plate.

In other short-gun news, I just picked up my Remington 870 Marine Magnum Tac-14. It has been quite a while since I fired a stock-less shotgun; could be interesting.

[Lester Polfus]

.45 Colt.

The youth stock is actually not much shorter than the factory stock, but it is just a bit shorter, and the pad is hard rubber, which is better than the slick plastic factory butt plate.

In other short-gun news, I just picked up my Remington 870 Marine Magnum Tac-14. It has been quite w while since I fired a stock-less shotgun; could be interesting.

.45 Colt out of a 16" barrel is a beast. That's a nice gun.

Also, one could put a "brace" on that Tac-14, which is an idea that I've often toyed with.

[Rex G]

.45 Colt out of a 16" barrel is a beast. That's a nice gun.

Also, one could put a "brace" on that Tac-14, which is an idea that I've often toyed with.

Yes; I am hoping that this ‘94 AE will become my friend. Perhaps, friendly enough to convince me to sell something.

I do not like short stocks on shotguns, so might not favor a brace, on the Tac-14, unless I want to clamp it under my arm, and fire from that position, or, perhaps, use “short stocking” as a default firing position.

Time to visit that creek bed, on my wife's family’s land, and experiment.

[GunGeezer]

I'm a big fan of "Companion Sets". The OP specifically mentioned "lever action carbines" so I'll not post any mention of longer barrels (rifles) or auto-loaders (9mm, .45 ACP, etc).

Here's a hard hitting Companion Set in .44 caliber (Magnum or Special).....

Winchester Model 94 Trapper (handy short barrel), along with 3 (handy short barrels) revolvers (left-to-right) Model 24, Model 21 Heritage, Model 629.....

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