9mm's Walther Creed or the Canik TP9SF?

[Rhino]

I am looking into an economically price 9mm primarily as a range gun and home defense.
I have found the Walther Creed for $250 and the Canik TP9SF for $260.

I have seen both of these get pretty good reviews and wondered what your opinions may be on:
Accuracy?
Ergonomics?
Trigger?
Reliability?
Wear?

Other thoughts or guns I should be looking at?

[LockedBreech]

I would bypass both for the Smith & Wesson SD9VE.

Edit:

You also can find police trade-in Smith & Wesson M&Ps and Glocks in the $300-350 range pretty readily. Might be better to just save another $75-100, you'd be getting a much better gun, even used.

If you're stuck on your two options (which I respect if you are), I'd choose the Walther over the Canik for a number of reasons, including questionable aftermarket and warranty support for the Canik.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rhino]

I would bypass both for the Smith & Wesson SD9VE.

Edit:

You also can find police trade-in Smith & Wesson M&Ps and Glocks in the $300-350 range pretty readily. Might be better to just save another $75-100, you'd be getting a much better gun, even used.

If you're stuck on your two options (which I respect if you are), I'd choose the Walther over the Canik for a number of reasons, including questionable aftermarket and warranty support for the Canik.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am not stuck on either one of these, Just looking at reviews and such these came up frequently and I like several aspects of both. But certainly open to other options. Thanks LockedBreech!

[LockedBreech]

I am not stuck on either one of these, Just looking at reviews and such these came up frequently and I like several aspects of both. But certainly open to other options. Thanks LockedBreech!


Check Recoil Gunworks of Salem Indiana frequently. Very good deals on police trades, especially Glocks. I bought from them once and it was in GREAT condition.

[olstyn]

The Canik is actually an unlicensed copy of the Walther P99 (or PPQ, depending on which action the Canik has in it). The P99 and PPQ are both more expensive than the Canik and the Creed, but they are IMO worth every penny. The advice you've received regarding police trade-in Glocks is also 100% valid even in the absence of a budgetary restriction - many (most?) of them will have been carried a lot and shot very little, while being significantly cheaper than new. It's basically the gun equivalent of buying a used car with only 15K miles on it - somebody else took a massive depreciation hit, and you get something that's near enough to new to make no difference.

[Jared]

I’d agree on the police trade in ideas. The beretta APX line is also quite affordable. I dunno if they can be had less than $300, but if you really want to not go used, it’s an option. I had a full sized APX and it was as good as any striker fired polymer framed 9 I’ve used. Better than most in fact.

[LockedBreech]

I’d agree on the police trade in ideas. The beretta APX line is also quite affordable. I dunno if they can be had less than $300, but if you really want to not go used, it’s an option. I had a full sized APX and it was as good as any striker fired polymer framed 9 I’ve used. Better than most in fact.

Completely forgot the APX! And I own one!

The full size for $329 is THE best deal in a new budget gun right now. Full stop. Mine feels every bit as high build quality as my Glocks and M&Ps, and $329 is the new in box price. Steal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rd62]

I'd go with a trade in Glock or M&P also. Check out Aim Surplus or some of the other sites that handle surplus and police trade ins.

[pangloss]

CDNN has SD9VE's for $250, I think. The Creed is about the same price there. I would take either of those over the Canik, but admittedly I have zero experience with any of these three pistols. APXs sell pretty regularly for under $300 on Gunbroker now, and I think that's just an impossible deal to beat. I only have a few hundred rounds through my APX, and so far I think that it is a really exceptional value. Retail on this pistol "should" be what a Glock or VP9 costs, so getting a new one for $300 is just amazing. Moving up in price from there, the new M&P 2.0's and CZ-P10c are available for under $400. I don't see how these could be objectively better than the APX, but if there is something that you really like about one of them, then it'd probably be worth the price difference on a subjective basis. Lastly, I've bought several used Glocks over the years in the $300-$400 range and I've never had a problem with any of them. There are ton of good options out there right now.

[StraitR]

Creed is discontinued. Canik is too off-brand for me personally.

The S&W SD9VE would get my vote in the $250 range. My employer currently has some "New Old Stock" models listed for $249 on Gunbroker, so they can definitely be had for that.

A trade-in Glock or M&P, as others have suggested, is another good option. Mags for both can be found ultra cheap.

[Danjojo]

Anything Walther over anything Canik.

Creed is soft shooting and trigger actually is pretty good...accurate, ergonomic, but build quality still ain't like the P99/PPQ series...something to consider if you plan/evolve to shoot a whole lot. Meant to be a very good budget gun, but still a budget gun.

There are things I don't like about the Beretta APX but I'd probably get one of those before a Creed if shopping $300 range. Beretta is investing a lot in the line and there will be more and more accessories and parts around, cheap mags, holsters, etc.

[Jared]

So, this conversation actually happened last week between me and a dude at one of the two shops I visit. Manager asked me what I knew about the Canik and the Girsan pistols. I asked what he was looking for. Basically he was looking for something that was budget friendly and wasn’t a Glock/S&W/Ruger because that was what they always stocked. In other words, he wanted something different for the clientele that was inexpensive.

That’s actually how I ended up with the APX centurion. I’d been wanting one, we were talking, I mentioned it as an option that actually had a well known and reputable name attached to it. And it’s G19 sized, which he was looking for. So I just told him I’d be the test subject, order me one. Picked it up today. He was pretty impressed with it (so am I). The other option we talked about is the CZ P10C.

[SSGN_Doc]

I’ve had a couple of Caniks for several years now. A Canik TP9SA (the ultimate in Internet controversial Caniks), and a TP9V2. They each have run without flaw or failure for over 2,500 rounds each. Both have digested over 10 brands of ammo during their 2,500 round consumption runs. The V2 was subjected to the 2k round challenge in the process. It started getting a sluggish slide with failure to go into full battery around the 1,700 round mark. I lubed it but did not clean it, and it completed the challenge without further lube.

Differences in the two pistols. The V2 was basically an update to the initial DA/SA TP9, which was a knock off of the Walther P99 AS. So, a striker fired DA/SA with a decocker.

The TP9SF was a single action only version of the TP9 with a trigger closer to a Walther PPQ. The controversial part was that Canik retained the decocker. Their marketing/explaination was that it provided a method of deco king safety without having to manipulate the trigger for disassembly. More likely it was to prevent the need for some machining changes and design changes to cut production cost. This became a controversial feature, because it was determined that the decocker could be activated at a very inconvenient time, tactically and leave the pistols trigger dead, until the slide is racked.

The decocker is less of an issue on the V2 or DA/SA pistol because the striker can be decocker and released by simply pulling the trigger for the full travel again.

How do they stack up against the Walther pistols they copied? Or, what are the down sides?

The finishing on the slide and small parts is just plain, better on the Walthers. The finish on the Walther is a Tennifer/Melonite/nitride finish that treats the metal itself. The Caniks to the best of my observations, have a phosphate finish applied to the slides as an undercoat, and then a Cerakote type finish applied over that. It does not hold up to holster wear as well as the finish on the Walthers. Canik models have had reports of being over sprung from the factory, and may experience reliability issues with any ammo that is not fairy hot, until the pistols are broken in. Many will make the argument that a def naive pistol should run reliably, right out of the box, with no break in. Some folks will accept a break in period. (You figure out where you stand) There were reports of Caniks breaking strikers before reaching 2k round counts. I experienced none of these issues.

Follow up reports indicate, Canik will replace recoil springs free of charge if cycling issues are experienced, and the striker have been redesigned (milled and different heat treatment vs MIM and machined strikers). So, the company seems somewhat responsive to feedback they get on shortcomings when they are identified.

My Caniks were purchased pretty much for range use and to scratch my own itch to know more about the pistols from my own experience, rather than what I read from reviewer who may or may not get paid or have their own biases.

Keep an eye on the used pistol racks. I picked up a Walther P99 for near the same price as I bought a new Canik. There have also been some Spanish Civil Guard P99s coming into the country. Glock police trade ins are a solid deal. I’ve had a early 90s G17 for a long time, and it got a Glock factory refresh, over 10 years ago when I stopped by the factory in GA.

[olstyn]

Keep an eye on the used pistol racks. I picked up a Walther P99 for near the same price as I bought a new Canik.

P99 pricing is weirdly cyclical in the USA. Sometimes there is a glut of supply and prices are low (I picked up a new one on GunBroker for just over $400 a few years ago), and sometimes there's no supply and even used ones are > $500.

[SSGN_Doc]

P99 pricing is weirdly cyclical in the USA. Sometimes there is a glut of supply and prices are low (I picked up a new one on GunBroker for just over $400 a few years ago), and sometimes there's no supply and even used ones are > $500.

I had been looking for a used P99 for several years, before finding one that totaled up, out the door, just over $400.

[SSGN_Doc]

Internals of TP9V2 and P99 side by side. Walther in the right.

https://i.ibb.co/X4Vj6mD/1-BCFEEBD-030-A-491-F-A73-A-54-EABEDF8262.jpg (https://ibb.co/b37QYpF)
https://i.ibb.co/GsSnWhW/88-FF9808-A368-4-DE6-B50-C-CEBEA4-E4819-C.jpg (https://ibb.co/PTHFcSc)
https://i.ibb.co/hCDtFgV/68-D3632-F-64-FB-42-A0-81-BA-85-D5168-F0020.jpg (https://ibb.co/52Bfh1L)

[willie]

I had an outstanding Canik but would never recommend one because support may be here today but might be gone tomorrow. Even Walther products in the past have been imported by different entities who did not support each others' products despite their being made by the same manufacturer. Glock simplicity and support make them a great deal when bought used. The dead gun market guarantees a good deal if you shop. You are less likely to get screwed with Glock, Smith, and CZ. The unskilled can replace Glock parts. A trade in Glock is a good deal if it has a trade in type price. Otherwise not. Summit Gun Broker sometimes has trade in Glocks. Call. The owner will answer the phone. Nice guy.

[LockedBreech]

I had an outstanding Canik but would never recommend one because support may be here today but might be gone tomorrow. Even Walther products in the past have been imported by different entities who did not support each others' products despite their being made by the same manufacturer. Glock simplicity and support make them a great deal when bought used. The dead gun market guarantees a good deal if you shop. You are less likely to get screwed with Glock, Smith, and CZ. The unskilled can replace Glock parts. A trade in Glock is a good deal if it has a trade in type price. Otherwise not. Summit Gun Broker sometimes has trade in Glocks. Call. The owner will answer the phone. Nice guy.

As an example of why this is important, I own a Stoeger (Beretta subsdiary) Cougar 8000F. While the Cougar is generally regarded as a substandard design that was greatly improved by the PX4, I have soft spot for mine. It was made in 2009 when the Beretta tooling was still fresh and sharp. It's identical in quality to my Beretta 92s.

However, in 2018 or so, Stoeger discontinued the line. It's a shitty feeling knowing you suddenly own a handgun that it is going to be significantly more difficult to source parts/magazines/support for. It's the primary driving force that led me to exclusively use Glock and M2.0 series pistols for serious home defense and carry duties.