Okie's Ruger Blackhawk .45 ACP/.45 Colt Converible

[willie]

Okie had one for sale. I ask that he give us a report on accuracy and handling. This model is an uncommon variation.

[okie john]

Late last summer I stumbled onto a Ruger new Model Blackhawk Flattop 45 Convertible. Ruger made 500 of these in blue with 5 ½” barrels, 500 with 4 5/8” barrels, and 500 of each barrel length in stainless. Total production as I understand it was just these 2,000 pieces.

I’ve written about the different levels of 45 Colt loads at https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?40251-44-Magnum-vs-45-Colt-Magnumized so I won’t repeat that here. Suffice it to say that I was looking for performance in the Tier II range (250 grains at 1,100 fps) with the ability to shoot Tier III loads should the need arise. I was in the mood for a revolver to hunt deer, elk, hogs, and maybe bear, so I bought it before I realized that it’s on the New Vaquero frame and not safe with “Ruger Only” Tier III loads. It came with cylinders for 45 Colt and 45 ACP.

Ruger has been inattentive to 45 Colt throat diameters for quite some time, but apparently Lipsey’s ensured that Ruger used the correct throat and chamber dimensions on these. You can read more about these guns at http://buffalobore.net/HandloaderDecJan2012.pdf and at https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL%20246partial.pdf. A few weeks later, I stumbled into a stainless New Model Blackhawk that is safe for the hotter Ruger Only loads. Someone had already had the throats opened up, done a trigger job, and added Bowen sights (about $325 worth of upgrades at local prices) and it was already priced about $100 too low so I snagged it and compared the two guns side by side for a while.

The NMBH has the XR3-RED grip frame, while the FT has the XR3. Much has been made of the differences between these two, but shooting them side by side I found far less actual difference than I expected. The excellent diagram of various Ruger centerfire revolver grip frames overlaid at https://gunblast.com/Hamm_Ruger-SA-GripFrames.htm shows what I mean. Of the two I very slightly prefer the XR3, but not enough to expend any time or treasure to get one over the other.

Load Testing
• Most 230-grain FMJ loads chronographed around 825-860 fps.
• The American Eagle 225-grain SHP load did about the same but wasn’t particularly accurate.
• One handload with 230-grain XTP bullets loaded to near 45 Super levels ran 966 fps and was accurate enough that my 45 ACP load development stopped right there.
• Throats on the FT were slightly tighter than on the NMBH, enough so that it wouldn’t chamber rounds loaded with a 0.452" 270-grain RCBS SAA bullet from Montana Bullet Works (https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/45-colt-rcbs-82092-270gr-saa/). FWIW, this design is all the hotness right now. Apparently Dave Scovill designed it for use in the Colt SAA. The nose length is 0.375” so it will fit in the SAA cylinder and it usually weighs 285 grains when cast of wheel weight metal. It DID shoot several sub-three-inch groups at 25 yards with the same design from another caster. This is a dimensional issue and in no way the fault of Montana Bullet Works or their products, which are superbly accurate in the NMBH. This bullet was very accurate with charges from 8-9 grains of Unique. Velocities in both guns ran from 860 fps to about 960 fps.
• I also tested a 255 true Keith from Montana Bullet Works over the same charges. Both loads shot well with relatively mild recoil, although POI varied between them by about 8 inches at 50 yards for windage.
• I also tested the 200-grain Barnes XPB in both guns. At an advertised 1,025 fps, it kicked about like a 38 Special in both guns. This could be a game changer for the 45 Colt, but I haven’t researched it or shot enough of it to say yet.

What did I learn?
• The 45 Flat Top is a slick little piece. If I didn’t perceive a need to shoot Tier III Loads on occasion, then I would have kept it. The added weight of the NMBH doesn't seem to matter until you get to Tier III loads, at which point you're better off with a Bisley.
• 45 ACP ammo is cheaper than 38 or 357. You can load it down but not up, and +P loads get very close to Goldilocks ballistics (250 grains at 1,000 fps). The real limit is range.
• The 45 Colt can go up or down, but factory ammo is either Tier I or Tier III, so a New Model convertible would be better than a Ruger Flat Top or New Vaquero for a traveling hunter who might have an airline lose his bags.
• The 44 Magnum is a better logistical choice for a traveling hunter. Decent ammo is widely available, much like the 30-06. Most factory loads are accurate and about the right power level if a bit on the hot side, but cowboy ammo may work in some cases.

Let me know if you have questions.


Okie John

[Bigghoss]

The revolver in question is a nice piece and I was seriously tempted by it.

[willie]

Many thanks for the precise and knowledgeable review!

[OlongJohnson]

I can't get the Rifle Magazine link to work. Just goes to a default page.

[okie john]

I can't get the Rifle Magazine link to work. Just goes to a default page.

That might be Wolfe Publishing's way of forcing you to buy a back issue.


Okie Jon

[okie john]

The revolver in question is a nice piece and I was seriously tempted by it.

You can still find them NIB. I saw a couple today, both blued, one of each barrel length. Price was $750-ish.


Okie John

[1911Nut]

I have one of the SS ones with the 4 5/8" barrel. Bought it new in 1994 and sent it directly to Jim Stroh at Alpha Precision in New Hope, GA.

He crowned the barrel. recut the forcing cone, adjusted the headspace, cylinder end play, and barrel cylinder gap, did an action job, and lightened the hammer. The work cost almost exactly what the gun did.

I installed a Millet adjustable rear sight and some faux ivory grips (can't remember who made them), and still have it after all these years. It's a great "Packin' Pistol" and I have been able to work up several good hand loads using Hercules Unique, Hercules 2400, and Hodgdon H110 powder with 260 gr. hard cast and Nosler 250 gr. JHP bullets. Really like this revolver, and it just doesn't seem like it was 26 years ago that I bought it!

[okie john]

I have one of the SS ones with the 4 5/8" barrel. Bought it new in 1994 and sent it directly to Jim Stroh at Alpha Precision in New Hope, GA.

He crowned the barrel. recut the forcing cone, adjusted the headspace, cylinder end play, and barrel cylinder gap, did an action job, and lightened the hammer. The work cost almost exactly what the gun did.

I installed a Millet adjustable rear sight and some faux ivory grips (can't remember who made them), and still have it after all these years. It's a great "Packin' Pistol" and I have been able to work up several good hand loads using Hercules Unique, Hercules 2400, and Hodgdon H110 powder with 260 gr. hard cast and Nosler 250 gr. JHP bullets. Really like this revolver, and it just doesn't seem like it was 26 years ago that I bought it!

The ones I'm writing about are the Flat Top models, which were introduced in 2012. You may be thinking of something else.

I wish that Jim Stroh was still working. He truly understood revolvers, and he made the best-looking 5" Model 29 conversions I've ever seen.


Okie John

[Bigghoss]

You can still find them NIB. I saw a couple today, both blued, one of each barrel length. Price was $750-ish.


Okie John

They're still listed on Ruger's website. I kept going back and forth between a 4 5/8th" stainless one and the Bisley I eventually got. I might still get a flat top because it's 7 ounces lighter.

[Inkwell 41]

The ones I'm writing about are the Flat Top models, which were introduced in 2012. You may be thinking of something else.

I wish that Jim Stroh was still working. He truly understood revolvers, and he made the best-looking 5" Model 29 conversions I've ever seen.


Okie John

I understand that Mr. Stroh passed away a couple years ago.

[OlongJohnson]

They're still listed on Ruger's website. I kept going back and forth between a 4 5/8th" stainless one and the Bisley I eventually got. I might still get a flat top because it's 7 ounces lighter.

If I was going to get a revolver in .45 Colt that was only up to Tier 2 loads, I couldn't get past a 25-5.

[Bigghoss]

If I was going to get a revolver in .45 Colt that was only up to Tier 2 loads, I couldn't get past a 25-5.

I was thinking I might have occasion to carry it and a flat top .45 is relatively light for a Blackhawk. And 99% of the time it would have the ACP cylinder in it anyway.

[ECVMatt]

I have a SS Bisley with an ACP cylinder and it is fun to shoot. I just use is for plinking with my son, but in the Bisley there is no recoil to speak of and it whacks the steel pretty good.

I have been tempted by the Flat Top models, but have thus far stayed away. I think a 4 5/8" FT would make a great packing pistol.

[OlongJohnson]

I've recently learned of about the Accusport special Blackhawks.

Not flattops. Bisley, stainless, 5.5-in barrels. .357, .41, .44 and .45. Some but not all of the .45s came with both cylinders. It appears the .45 Colt cylinders were fluted, and the Auto cylinders were smooth.

I might be on the lookout. I have factory ammo, bullets, and dies for .44. I'm also attracted to the idea of cheaper factory ball and standard defensive ammo in the .45 Auto cylinder.

Nobody needs to say "get both."

[Bigghoss]

Nobody needs to say "get both."

This is Pistol-Forum. Unless you've already ordered both, somebody has to say it.

[okie john]

This is Pistol-Forum. Unless you've already ordered both, somebody has to say it.

Get both.


Okie John

[Bigghoss]

Get both.


Okie John

Balance has been restored and all is right with the world once again.

[Malamute]

The mid-sized flat tops appeal to me greatly. I have a full size if I want to shoot the top end loads, though I think Ive shot about 150-200 all told of the upper end stuff suggested by Mr Linebaugh over the past 30 years or so Ive had it. I dont get out in the bear brush like I used to for various reasons, so the need is even less at this point. The carry weight has become more of a thing as well, so the skinnier gun sounds good. All good rationalization for one.


However....Ive also tended towards skinnier bullets the past couple years, and find myself blasphemously thinking a flat top in 357/9 would be dandy. If i can just get someone to make me a decent front sight for it, Id be in trouble. Sadly, there doesnt seem to be a source for Colt Flat Top Target front sights at this point. Brownells used to carry the Uberti parts, but no longer.


Edit: None of the above should be construed to mean I dont like my current 45s, which I can sit and handle and mess with and simply enjoy looking at them, something I dont seem able to do with mostly stock Rugers, The tools would have to come out the minute it came through the door, probably before it was shot. Its a curse at times, being detail oriented in that way.

[Duelist]

Get both.


Okie John

I hope whoever got your .45 Flattop is loving it. I still sit here and look at the pics of it in the for sale listing and try to figure out what I need to sell to get one.

[awp_101]

However....Ive also tended towards skinnier bullets the past couple years, and find myself blasphemously thinking a flat top in 357/9 would be dandy. If i can just get someone to make me a decent front sight for it, Id be in trouble. Sadly, there doesnt seem to be a source for Colt Flat Top Target front sights at this point. Brownells used to carry the Uberti parts, but no longer.

I don't know if 2Dogs has anything that would work but you might look here: https://fermincgarza.com/shop If he doesn't, he might be able to work up something similar.


I still sit here and look at the pics of it in the for sale listing and try to figure out what I need to sell to get one.
Anything that doesn't come out of the safe that you're not sentimentally attached to. A mid-frame 4 5/8" .45 convertible with a satin stainless finish is a dream revolver for me. I recently picked up a blue, 4 5/8" large frame .45 convertible and while I enjoy it, it's just bigger than I need it to be since I'm not running romp'em stomp'em hunting loads. That almost Colt-sized mid-frame is the ticket for my shooting pleasure.

[Bigghoss]

As cool as my large frame Bisley .45 is I should have gotten a 4 5/8ths flat top. Not that the Bisley is any heavier than my N-frames.

https://ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkConvertible/images/5243.jpg

[03RN]

How much lighter are the flat tops in real life? Their website says it weighs the same as my old 4 5/8" blued .45 colt.

[Bigghoss]

How much lighter are the flat tops in real life? Their website says it weighs the same as my old 4 5/8" blued .45 colt.

I don't think the listed weights are accurate because I think I remember different barrel length's having the same weight. That said, my large frame Bisley is listed at 43oz and a 4 5/8th" flat top is listed at 36oz.

[03RN]

I don't think the listed weights are accurate because I think I remember different barrel length's having the same weight. That said, my large frame Bisley is listed at 43oz and a 4 5/8th" flat top is listed at 36oz.

My old blackhawk weighs 36oz as well.

[Lost River]

How much lighter are the flat tops in real life? Their website says it weighs the same as my old 4 5/8" blued .45 colt.

My .45 Convertible Flattop came with a stainless XR3 frame. I replaced that with an aluminum one to make it a bit lighter, which was the right move as far as I am concerned. Really like the lightweight way it feels in the hand, and the balance. Here is the pic on the scale:



https://i.imgur.com/cTei0eV.jpg

I was up at the cabin last week. First with my dad, then with kids. I took my G30S and the Flattop for handguns. We went to a river on one of the days and naturally I had the Flattop on that day instead of the Glock. That of course would be the day I went and slipped on wet river rocks and went for a dip. I went for a walk along the river and maybe get a pic or two and check stuff out. I guess you could say I was "wet molding" my Sparks leather. :rolleyes:

No matter, it dried out in 10 minutes after I washed out the muck.

https://i.imgur.com/coq0abo.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/caJ7lcu.jpg


A lot of guys might be pissed, but I didn't get too mad, as I buy guns to carry and use. The Flattop is certainly my nicest single action, but if it gets a few wear and tear marks from "adventures", so be it. That is life in the Rockies. :cool:

[OlongJohnson]

Yup, if I buy another, it will be stainless.

Also need to get a 200AW order placed.

[03RN]

My .45 Convertible Flattop came with a stainless XR3 frame. I replaced that with an aluminum one to make it a bit lighter, which was the right move as far as I am concerned. Really like the lightweight way it feels in the hand, and the balance. Here is the pic on the scale:



https://i.imgur.com/cTei0eV.jpg

I was up at the cabin last week. First with my dad, then with kids. I took my G30S and the Flattop for handguns. We went to a river on one of the days and naturally I had the Flattop on that day instead of the Glock. That of course would be the day I went and slipped on wet river rocks and went for a dip. I went for a walk along the river and maybe get a pic or two and check stuff out. I guess you could say I was "wet molding" my Sparks leather. :rolleyes:

No matter, it dried out in 10 minutes after I washed out the muck.

https://i.imgur.com/coq0abo.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/caJ7lcu.jpg


A lot of guys might be pissed, but I didn't get too mad, as I buy guns to carry and use. The Flattop is certainly my nicest single action, but if it gets a few wear and tear marks from "adventures", so be it. That is life in the Rockies. :cool:

Lol, my blackhawk has gone swimming a few times in my el passo saddlery threepersons.

I once had my canoe capsize in april and it got caught under a log jam. My walker was stuck underneath and the water was rushing pushing the canoe down so it took everything I had to pull it loose while I was chest deep in cold april water.

Fortunately he was none the worse for wear and he still loved to canoe afterwards.

Ill try to get some nicer pics of my blackhawk when I get my mernickle holster.

[Lost River]

That had to be a very heart pounding moment. People not familiar don't understand the power of water. Trying to fight it can be almost impossible. A stuck canoe with your best buddy's life on the line would be a one of those "never forget" deals. Cold water saps your strengths quickly too.

My old patrol partner and I did a rescue of a family from out of state that was not familiar with a particular stretch of one of our rivers years ago. They launched canoes upstream of an area that looked calm. Problem was they were just above some pretty good whitewater and not prepared at all for it. Little kids ended up on boulders, canoe capsized, it was a little ugly. My partner and I did some quick rope work and I went for a swim. Clipped people on one by one and did our thing. By the time the rescue boats got there we were on the last person but I was so exhausted I had to have them pull me into the boat. I was about a rag doll at that point. The cold water had zapped every bit of strength from me. I caught a cold as I recall. :rolleyes:

Water, especially cold water is no joke.