Montana Bullet Works .45 cal 230 and 250 grain hard cast in .45ACP.

[5pins]

https://i.imgur.com/H9tkMzHl.jpg

Test Gun: Colt 1911.
Barrel length: 5 inches.
Ammunition: Montana Bullet Works .45 ACP 230gr and 250gr Hard Cast.
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: 947, 860fps
Gel Temperature 70 degrees.

https://general-cartridge.com/2020/02/05/montana-bullet-works-45-cal-230-and-250-grain-hard-cast-in-45acp-handload/

[Hambo]

Outstanding work.

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/ufH4eZ7sF_I

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Dave T]

In these examples adequate penetration would not seem to be an issue. (smile)

Dave

[Wayne Dobbs]

https://i.imgur.com/H9tkMzHl.jpg

Test Gun: Colt 1911.
Barrel length: 5 inches.
Ammunition: Montana Bullet Works .45 ACP 230gr and 250gr Hard Cast.
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: 947, 860fps
Gel Temperature 70 degrees.

https://general-cartridge.com/2020/02/05/montana-bullet-works-45-cal-230-and-250-grain-hard-cast-in-45acp-handload/

5pins,

If you are able, I think it would be very useful to see what that 230 grain loaded to hardball velocity (800-850 fps) does in terms of gel penetration. I would guess it does great and that it gives a real boost to what we're used to with .45 ACP ball. Many years ago (1960s, I think) Jeff Cooper wrote that if the .45 ACP was loaded to "100 foot seconds faster with a proper combat bullet" that it would "come on like a well trained rhinoceros". I think you've found the load with what you already posted on the 230. I'd bet at 850, it will do everything we need a 1911 to do and more.

[Jim Watson]

Jeff Cooper also liked the truncated cone. Reports are that it penetrates deeper and straighter than roundnose. There is one company making flatpointed safari rifle bullets on that basis.

[5pins]

5pins,

If you are able, I think it would be very useful to see what that 230 grain loaded to hardball velocity (800-850 fps) does in terms of gel penetration. I would guess it does great and that it gives a real boost to what we're used to with .45 ACP ball. Many years ago (1960s, I think) Jeff Cooper wrote that if the .45 ACP was loaded to "100 foot seconds faster with a proper combat bullet" that it would "come on like a well trained rhinoceros". I think you've found the load with what you already posted on the 230. I'd bet at 850, it will do everything we need a 1911 to do and more.

I'll have to give it a try and see. I expect it will do pretty well. I wouldn't mind finding some FMJ flat points and trying them also.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Just to keep it real, use the original powder and charge of M1911 ball: 5.0 Bullseye

[Johnny Walker]

I'll have to give it a try and see. I expect it will do pretty well. I wouldn't mind finding some FMJ flat points and trying them also.

5pins, were you ever able to move forward with this as Wayne had suggested?

[5pins]

5pins, were you ever able to move forward with this as Wayne had suggested?

I have not. In fact, I had forgotten all about it.

[Johnny Walker]

I have not. In fact, I had forgotten all about it.

Well sir, looks like you have work to do! I have been using up the last of my SWCs and am looking hard at ordering the MBW 230gr you had in your article. Was hoping you had developed more along the lines of using those 230 grainers. That article you had was quite interesting....

[JHC]

I'll have to give it a try and see. I expect it will do pretty well. I wouldn't mind finding some FMJ flat points and trying them also.

This may be duh obvious but for expediency, the Speer Lawman 230 gr .45 is loaded with the Jeff Cooper type flat pointed FMJ.

[Wayne Dobbs]

This may be duh obvious but for expediency, the Speer Lawman 230 gr .45 is loaded with the Jeff Cooper type flat pointed FMJ.

Got a SKU or product code? Didn't know that, thought they were regular FMJ-RN. Used to shoot the Hornady factory JTC loads in .45 and reload the same bullets. Great loads!

[JHC]

Got a SKU or product code? Didn't know that, thought they were regular FMJ-RN. Used to shoot the Hornady factory JTC loads in .45 and reload the same bullets. Great loads!

Here lists the SKU as 53658


https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/53658-speer-lawman-45-acp-230-gr-flat-nose-tmj.html

I shot through a few boxes a few years ago. Checking for a link with the sku and I see they may offer a round nose also.

[Johnny Walker]

Here lists the SKU as 53658


https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/53658-speer-lawman-45-acp-230-gr-flat-nose-tmj.html

I shot through a few boxes a few years ago. Checking for a link with the sku and I see they may offer a round nose also.

Thanks for that JHC! Still, wanna see what 5Pins comes up with using the MBW 230gr... that meplat is phat! I am also going to order the 255gr SWC 03RN is monkeying with in his thread .452 hardcast for 1911s https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?44000-452-hard-cast-for-1911s

[Johnny Walker]

Got a SKU or product code? Didn't know that, thought they were regular FMJ-RN. Used to shoot the Hornady factory JTC loads in .45 and reload the same bullets. Great loads!

Wayne, are you inclined to share any recipe's? Or did you use the old standby of 5.0 gr Bullseye? I want to get Ramshot enforcer and try it out for 230 gr MBW and the roundball I have on hand.....

03RNs 6.0 gr Unique with the 255's looks promising as well ( .452 hardcast for 1911s thread ). Never heard of unique for 45 acp. In the past, Power Pistol, Bullseye, W231, AA#2.... used them all. All worked well for my purposes at the time. Now I have a 625JM to feed in addition to my DW Specialist and Sig 1911s..... so reanalyzing best loads for woods carry since hunting season is nearly here!

[JHC]

Got a SKU or product code? Didn't know that, thought they were regular FMJ-RN. Used to shoot the Hornady factory JTC loads in .45 and reload the same bullets. Great loads!

I could swear the Lawman .45 I bought had the "truncated" flat point form factor vs the round shoulder flat point which appears pictured but it's been a few years.

[5pins]

Wayne, are you inclined to share any recipe's? Or did you use the old standby of 5.0 gr Bullseye? I want to get Ramshot enforcer and try it out for 230 gr MBW and the roundball I have on hand.....

03RNs 6.0 gr Unique with the 255's looks promising as well ( .452 hardcast for 1911s thread ). Never heard of unique for 45 acp. In the past, Power Pistol, Bullseye, W231, AA#2.... used them all. All worked well for my purposes at the time. Now I have a 625JM to feed in addition to my DW Specialist and Sig 1911s..... so reanalyzing best loads for woods carry since hunting season is nearly here!

Enforcer works pretty well in .45 ACP. I tested some when it first came out and at the time it showed a max charge of 14grs. I was able to get 1028fps with the Hornady FMJFP with that load but it requered using CCI magnum primers. Only CCI magnum primers would achieve that velocity, Federal, Winchester, and Remington would not. I also got 1148fps using a Hornady 200gr FMJFP using that powder. Ramshot has since removed that powder from the .45ACP data.


Thanks for that JHC! Still, wanna see what 5Pins comes up with using the MBW 230gr... that meplat is phat! I am also going to order the 255gr SWC 03RN is monkeying with in his thread .452 hardcast for 1911s https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?44000-452-hard-cast-for-1911s

It's not going to happen any time soon.


I could swear the Lawman .45 I bought had the "truncated" flat point form factor vs the round shoulder flat point which appears pictured but it's been a few years.

It would appear that CCI and Hornady have discontinued their 230gr FNJFP. Winchester and Nosler both offer then as reloading components but good luck finding any in stock.

[03RN]

Boy, that 230gr bullet is exactly the type of bullet I want. Why's it have to be so pricey?:(

[Johnny Walker]

Boy, that 230gr bullet is exactly the type of bullet I want. Why's it have to be so pricey?:(

No doubt they are approx 35% more than the Matts 250gr Short Nose Keiths I was using but they look to be what the doctor ordered!

Unique and Enforcer loads with that should be perfect for both 1911 and 625.....

03RN, did you ever get the chrono results on your 255SWC/6.0 Unique loads?

[03RN]

No doubt they are approx 35% more than the Matts 250gr Short Nose Keiths I was using but they look to be what the doctor ordered!

Unique and Enforcer loads with that should be perfect for both 1911 and 625.....

03RN, did you ever get the chrono results on your 255SWC/6.0 Unique loads?

Not yet. I think both said they'll be shooting them this week or next.

[03RN]

Not yet. I think both said they'll be shooting them this week or next.

I had updated a post with chrono results but ill update here as well.

2 seperate people with 2 different guns both averaged 850fps for 10shots.

[03RN]

Does anyone know where I could get a mold for that 230gr bullet?

If not I may splurge on a saeco 215gr swc mold.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Wayne, are you inclined to share any recipe's? Or did you use the old standby of 5.0 gr Bullseye? I want to get Ramshot enforcer and try it out for 230 gr MBW and the roundball I have on hand.....

03RNs 6.0 gr Unique with the 255's looks promising as well ( .452 hardcast for 1911s thread ). Never heard of unique for 45 acp. In the past, Power Pistol, Bullseye, W231, AA#2.... used them all. All worked well for my purposes at the time. Now I have a 625JM to feed in addition to my DW Specialist and Sig 1911s..... so reanalyzing best loads for woods carry since hunting season is nearly here!

Sorry for delayed response, but I didn't see your question JW!

I used 6.5 Unique, 5.1 231 (for less "vibration") or 5.6 231. The Unique and 5.6 231 loads were hardball duplication loads. I was buying those Hornady bullets for about $6.50/100 and wish I'd bought tons of them! BTW, all those loads were done on a single stage RCBS Rockchucker.

[357carbine]

Does anyone know where I could get a mold for that 230gr bullet?

If not I may splurge on a saeco 215gr swc mold.

http://lbtmolds.com

[03RN]

http://lbtmolds.com

Thanks, i think im going to start casting. Might be a long winter

[358156hp]

LBT moulds aren't something you order on the spur of the moment, each mould is manufactured to order, and it could take about a month or so to ship. I have a 4 cavity LBT mould for that design and although I use this design a lot I have never chrono'd or gell tested it. I generally load mine with standard hardball data. The correct name in LBT speak is .452 230 gr. LFN (Long Flat Nose). Veral refers to it as the best "live target" design. A friend also has one in 10mm. LBT moulds are kind of spendy, but I find them to be worth every penny. LBT designs are very popular with handgun hunters and long range shooters as well. They're that good.

Yup. I'm an LBT fanboy.

61345

[Johnny Walker]

Sorry for delayed response, but I didn't see your question JW!

I used 6.5 Unique, 5.1 231 (for less "vibration") or 5.6 231. The Unique and 5.6 231 loads were hardball duplication loads. I was buying those Hornady bullets for about $6.50/100 and wish I'd bought tons of them! BTW, all those loads were done on a single stage RCBS Rockchucker.

Thanks Wayne.. I hear ya on ordering components - back in the "good ol days" of pre Covid, we had access to all we needed.. today, not so much! Who would have thought it would get this crazy?!

[revolvergeek]

Does anyone know where I could get a mold for that 230gr bullet?

If not I may splurge on a saeco 215gr swc mold.

Looks like maybe here: http://lbtmolds.com/OurMolds/tabid/5807/Default.aspx http://lbtmolds.com/Portals/143/Content/Files/LBTCATALOG.pdf

That saeco 215 SWC is a really good looking bullet. I bought some from MBW but have not loaded them yet. I really like that big sharp meplat. I also got some of their '45 Colt, RCBS 82308, 230gr, RFP-PB' which looks a lot like I remember the bullet in that 230 Lawman FMJFP ammo looking like. I have had pretty good luck also with the cheap Lee 230 truncated cone tumble lube bullet. I have shot a bunch of them in several different pistols. They also have a nice clean meplat and the molds are cheap and easy to cast with.

[358156hp]

I had one of the 45 cal. SAECO "Bowling Pin" design moulds. It seemed to feed okay in guns with 5 inch barrels, but always wanted to hang up in the feedway with compacts.

I sold mine quite a while back.

If you want a mould for a bullet that has everything going for it for feeding, and a decent track record on the street consider a H&G 68 SWC. I have an original four cavity H&G 68 and so far it feeds in everything I've thrown it at. If you go this route, make sure you get a true H&G clone. Not all SWC designs work equally well.