1-6 Razor JM v MRAD reticle

[jc000]

I didn't want to necro older threads so wanted to get some feedback on these two reticle choices from the experts.

I'm purchasing a Razor 1-6 for a general purpose 16" 5.56 rifle that will primarily be used for training (running and gunning as opposed to precision shooting). I have no plans to shoot this rifle past 400Y and would mostly be shooting within 200Y. The 6X top-end would mostly serve for spotting purposes.

I don't know how to use a scope so this is an opportunity to learn. That being said, I don't want to use something unnecessarily complicated for my use case. It seems like the JM-1 reticle would best suit my needs but if it's truly better to learn MRAD in the long run AND wouldn't slow down my shooting happy to go that route.

[Clusterfrack]

Get the mil reticle if you want to learn. I don’t love the JM reticle anyway. It lacks wind and mover holds.

[StraitR]

VMR-2 MRAD is my preference. Combine with Strelok Pro app to get your holdovers for the most popular factory ammo and projectile offerings. Of course, you need to confirm, but ultimately a MIL reticle is more versatile than a BDC, IMO.

[Alpha Sierra]

I'm purchasing a Razor 1-6 for a general purpose 16" 5.56 rifle that will primarily be used for training (running and gunning as opposed to precision shooting). I have no plans to shoot this rifle past 400Y and would mostly be shooting within 200Y.

Get the JM reticle. It's tailor-made for your needs.

The MRAD reticle would be useless clutter for your stated purposes. Inside of 400 yards wind holds are insignificant for man-sized targets unless you're shooting in 15+ MPH winds and then you guess a hold, fire, and adjust if you miss.

[jbrimlow]

Get the JM reticle. It's tailor-made for your needs.

The MRAD reticle would be useless clutter for your stated purposes. Inside of 400 yards wind holds are insignificant for man-sized targets unless you're shooting in 15+ MPH winds and then you guess a hold, fire, and adjust if you miss.

This right here.

[CS Tactical]

I prefer the JM-1 for the Vortex Razor Gen II as I'm not a fan of the layout of the Mil or MOA reticle design. With a higher magnification scope FFPP scope like a 3-15, 4-20, 5-27 etc I will recommend a mil based system unless you are shooting a bench rest discipline or getting a SFP Swarovski hunting scope where you can't choose mil.

[StraitR]

Below pic is the VMR-2 MRAD reticle dope in Strelok Pro for my 16" Noveske with Razor Gen II-E using 55gr M193. Basically, the same barrel length and bullet weight the JM-1 is set up for. Rifle is zeroed at 100, target shown at 200 (a 2.57" holdover), and mil hash marks are 294, 395, 536, and 590. I'm not seeing what the JM-1 would do here that the VMR-2 MRAD doesn't. This is at my average temp and altitude in Florida, basically 78 degrees and 75ft elevation. The JM-1 could easily be off 6, 5, 36, and 10 at my altitude at those respective distances as well. I've confirmed out to 300.

I later took this optic off the Noveske and put it on a 20" Tikka CTR .308 and recalculated for a 168gr Hornady A-MAX bullet in Strelok, something you could not do with the JM-1.

48318

[Clusterfrack]

Pros and cons. A BDC can be faster than a mil reticle. But only if your load matches.

If you shoot moving targets, especially if there is wind, the JM reticle is going to suck. Hard.

Clutter shouldn’t be an issue if you have daylight bright illumination.

My favorite for carbine is a hybrid reticle like the CMR-W in the Mk 6.

[CS Tactical]

Below pic is the VMR-2 MRAD reticle dope in Strelok Pro for my 16" Noveske with Razor Gen II-E using 55gr M193. Basically, the same barrel length and bullet weight the JM-1 is set up for. Rifle is zeroed at 100, target shown at 200 (a 2.57" holdover), and mil hash marks are 294, 395, 536, and 590. I'm not seeing what the JM-1 would do here that the VMR-2 MRAD doesn't. This is at my average temp and altitude in Florida, basically 78 degrees and 75ft elevation. The JM-1 could easily be off 6, 5, 36, and 10 at my altitude at those respective distances as well. I've confirmed out to 300.

I later took this optic off the Noveske and put it on a 20" Tikka CTR .308 and recalculated for a 168gr Hornady A-MAX bullet in Strelok, something you could not do with the JM-1.

48318


It's personal preference, the JM-1 is mainly for shooting IPSC torso style steel or objects shaped like that at speed to realistic AR type distances while the MRAD and MOA based reticles are going to be more precise in your example.
For a LPVO I prefer the cleaner JM reticle without the windage hashmarks the way they are arranged. Choices are good.

[jc000]

Thank you everyone! Based on the comments here, it’s sounding like the JM is probably the best bet for my application. Unfortunately since someone made me an offer I couldn’t refuse, it looks like I’ll be picking up a Razor with the MRAD reticle, lol :p

Anyway, since I’m not storming the Beaches of Normandy or hitting the 3-gun nationals I think I’ll be ok learning to work in MILS. The deal is smokin’ hot enough that I may as well give it a whirl. Thanks again.

[Alpha Sierra]

Below pic is the VMR-2 MRAD reticle dope in Strelok Pro for my 16" Noveske with Razor Gen II-E using 55gr M193. Basically, the same barrel length and bullet weight the JM-1 is set up for. Rifle is zeroed at 100, target shown at 200 (a 2.57" holdover), and mil hash marks are 294, 395, 536, and 590. I'm not seeing what the JM-1 would do here that the VMR-2 MRAD doesn't. This is at my average temp and altitude in Florida, basically 78 degrees and 75ft elevation. The JM-1 could easily be off 6, 5, 36, and 10 at my altitude at those respective distances as well. I've confirmed out to 300.

I later took this optic off the Noveske and put it on a 20" Tikka CTR .308 and recalculated for a 168gr Hornady A-MAX bullet in Strelok, something you could not do with the JM-1.

48318

One can absolutely recalibrate a BDC reticle such as the Vortex JM-1 or the Steiner P3TR since their OEMs publish what the angular distance is between the center and each of the drop stadia lines. It can be done even if the reticle doesn't appear in your magic box's database.

[Alpha Sierra]

Anyway, since I’m not storming the Beaches of Normandy or hitting the 3-gun nationals I think I’ll be ok learning to work in MILS.

Working in mils is exactly like working in MOA. Work directly in angular measurements and never think in inches when dealing with bullet drop or wind drift.

You have a ruler calibrated in milliradians right in front of your eyes. Use that to measure.

[StraitR]

One can absolutely recalibrate a BDC reticle such as the Vortex JM-1 or the Steiner P3TR since their OEMs publish what the angular distance is between the center and each of the drop stadia lines. It can be done even if the reticle doesn't appear in your magic box's database.

It does appear in "my magic box's database", it just meters out in odd distances at each stadia. I don't care one way or the other what people choose. I shared my opinion based on my experience, you shared yours.

There are choices for this very reason. You pays your moneys, you buys your scopes.

[js475]

What do you guys think about the reticle options for the Razor Gen III 1-10? I'm pretty set on picking one up as my next LPVO but trying to decide between MRAD and BDC/MOA. This being a 10x and FFP is making me lean towards MRAD, but I've yet to be convinced either way. As of right now it would be spending most of its time on a 5.56 14.5" or 16" AR, however I've been thinking about buying an AR10 in the near future, which this scope would be perfect for. Thoughts?

[CS Tactical]

What do you guys think about the reticle options for the Razor Gen III 1-10? I'm pretty set on picking one up as my next LPVO but trying to decide between MRAD and BDC/MOA. This being a 10x and FFP is making me lean towards MRAD, but I've yet to be convinced either way. As of right now it would be spending most of its time on a 5.56 14.5" or 16" AR, however I've been thinking about buying an AR10 in the near future, which this scope would be perfect for. Thoughts?

I'm going with the MRAD, our pre-sales are 10-1 MRAD right now.

[Alpha Sierra]

I'm going with the MRAD, our pre-sales are 10-1 MRAD right now.

Herd mentality isn't always a good barometer.

I tailor my optics to their purpose instead of trying to make them do everything.

[CS Tactical]

Herd mentality isn't always a good barometer.

I tailor my optics to their purpose instead of trying to make them do everything.


It has nothing to do with herd mentality, we specialize in high end optics and precision rifles that cater to some of the best shooters in the nation.
When it comes to FFP scopes more people tend to use MRAD while SFP scopes used for hunting or F-Class/Benchrest shooting typically use MOA based scopes.
I can say the majority of our customers do come from another board which also favors MRAD for the PRS/NRL type shooting so there's that...

[Alpha Sierra]

It has nothing to do with herd mentality, we specialize in high end optics and precision rifles that cater to some of the best shooters in the nation.
When it comes to FFP scopes more people tend to use MRAD while SFP scopes used for hunting or F-Class/Benchrest shooting typically use MOA based scopes.
I can say the majority of our customers do come from another board which also favors MRAD for the PRS/NRL type shooting so there's that...

I know which board you refer to, and there's a lot of monkey see monkey do there too. A lot of shooters there don't understand how little difference there is between MOA and Mil reticles in practical use regardless of the scope's focal plane and just repeat what they read somewhere else.

An angle is an angle, doesn't matter how you measure it.

[CS Tactical]

I know which board you refer to, and there's a lot of monkey see monkey do there too. A lot of shooters there don't understand how little difference there is between MOA and Mil reticles in practical use regardless of the scope's focal plane and just repeat what they read somewhere else.

An angle is an angle, doesn't matter how you measure it.

Here's a good article on this topic here. (http://youwillshootyoureyeout.com/mils-or-moa-which-is-right-for-you-or-why-bigger-is-better-by-frank-galli/)

And again, depending on the type of shooting you do the choice you make can make things more difficult than necessary. We have, use and sell both so pick what you want :cool:

[Clusterfrack]

... there's a lot of monkey see monkey do there too.

Nothing wrong with that—as long as the monkey you’re copying is a top 10 competitor... I always recommend that new shooters looking for equipment advice just try to copy what the super squad uses.

[CS Tactical]

Nothing wrong with that—as long as the monkey you’re copying is a top 10 competitor... I always recommend that new shooters looking for equipment advice just try to copy what the super squad uses.

Unfortunately many of the top top guys are crazy sponsored, our shop's competitive shooter was going to use a few Zero Compromise Optic 5-27 this year (that he had to pay for one of himself) for NRL, PRS and King of 2 mile but a major scope manufacturer gave him an offer he couldn't refuse. :eek:

[Sigfan26]

I was once told FFP was bad for LPVO... Except when done right by a famous optic maker... now FFP seems to be pretty standard on LPVO [emoji2369]. Sometimes, folks just need to pick what works for them and stop listening to folks trying to sell them things.


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[Clusterfrack]

Totally. But I mean more the big picture setup. Reticle style, caliber, chassis, for rifles. Gun type, mag pouches, shoes, etc for USPSA.