Maybe Old News? Couple Interesting Things on the EAA Website

[Tokarev]

For some unknown reason I found myself on the EAA website and noticed a couple interesting guns.

First is an Italian 1911 clone. Of course the TZ75-type guns have been around forever and have been in and out of popularity in the US. I wonder how an Italian 1911 will sell. Probably of better fit/finish than the Turkish stuff:

https://eaacorp.com/guns/handguns/witness-elite-1911-steel-tanfoglio-24

Speaking of Turkish stuff I see EAA is importing a Beretta M92 copy. I think these have been offered before although the previous importer escapes me at the moment:

https://eaacorp.com/guns/handguns/regard-sport-gen4-517

Not really big news, I guess. Just thought it was somewhat interesting that EAA seems to be bringing in a variety of stuff.

[Whirlwind06]

I was checking out the 1911s a few weeks ago, I like that some are cut for a red dot.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[45dotACP]

I think it was Clobbersaurus who shot one of the Girsan Regard pistols for a bit.

The 1911 with a buried adjustable rear sight looks kinda cool.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

I was checking out the 1911s a few weeks ago, I like that some are cut for a red dot.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TapatalkHere are some of the red dot options. I like the Devel style grip slot so mag capacity is visible.

https://eaacorp.com/guns/handguns/mc1911scultimate-488

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[RevolverRob]

The polymer framed Tanfo 1911 for <6 bills MSRP looks like it could be a player.

For me the Turkish guns are a no-go. I can’t support them economically with Erdogan in power. That guy should be rotting in a U.S. prison for his crimes against U.S. citizens on American soil.

But I don’t have anything against the Italians these days.

The question to me is - are the Tanfos really any better than the Rock Islands?

[Clobbersaurus]

For some unknown reason I found myself on the EAA website and noticed a couple interesting guns.

First is an Italian 1911 clone. Of course the TZ75-type guns have been around forever and have been in and out of popularity in the US. I wonder how an Italian 1911 will sell. Probably of better fit/finish than the Turkish stuff:

https://eaacorp.com/guns/handguns/witness-elite-1911-steel-tanfoglio-24

Speaking of Turkish stuff I see EAA is importing a Beretta M92 copy. I think these have been offered before although the previous importer escapes me at the moment:

https://eaacorp.com/guns/handguns/regard-sport-gen4-517

Not really big news, I guess. Just thought it was somewhat interesting that EAA seems to be bringing in a variety of stuff.

That M92 clone is a competition version. Looks heavily influenced by the Elite II, it even has the new take down lever gas pedal and dovetailed front sight.


I think it was Clobbersaurus who shot one of the Girsan Regard pistols for a bit.

The 1911 with a buried adjustable rear sight looks kinda cool.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

The Girsan’s are good to go. If I was still shooting Beretta’s I’d get one of the new one’s in a heartbeat. Edit: I just saw the price. Those will sell like hotcakes.

[Tokarev]

A bit of info on the 1911s

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2020/1/27/first-look-eaa-girsan-mc1911-match-and-match-elite-pistols/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=0120

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Whirlwind06]

The polymer framed Tanfo 1911 for <6 bills MSRP looks like it could be a player.

For me the Turkish guns are a no-go. I can’t support them economically with Erdogan in power. That guy should be rotting in a U.S. prison for his crimes against U.S. citizens on American soil.

But I don’t have anything against the Italians these days.

The question to me is - are the Tanfos really any better than the Rock Islands?

The downside I see to the polymer 1911 is that they are not a 1911 frame, in the sense that the grip panels are molded into the frame.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/5/5/tested-eaa-witness-elite-1911-polymer-pistol/


Tanfoglio uses standard mil-spec dimensions for the rail, so it will accommodate any number of tactical lights and lasers. Faux stock panels are molded into the frame and are checkered to provide the shooter with a secure grip. The gun’s frontstrap has been left untextured. Tanfoglio solved one of the original weak points of the M1911 by molding an integral plunger tube into the frame, eliminating any chance of the part loosening and disabling the thumb safety.

But I guess for the price and weight reduction that might not be a bad trade off.

[Tokarev]

The downside I see to the polymer 1911 is that they are not a 1911 frame...I guess for the price and weight reduction that might not be a bad trade off.

Doesn't STI make a polymer single stack?

Without further research I'd say the downside is that these guns wouldn't be allowed in USPSA single stack. But that's an assumption without reading the latest rulebook.

[Whirlwind06]

I believe you are correct USPSA single stack is metal framed only.

[TheNewbie]

Doesn't STI make a polymer single stack?

Without further research I'd say the downside is that these guns wouldn't be allowed in USPSA single stack. But that's an assumption without reading the latest rulebook.

I think it’s Rock River Arms. Maybe STI too, but I also thought STI was out of the single stack business.

[Joe in PNG]

I find the 1911 more interesting than I probably should.

[45dotACP]

I think it’s Rock River Arms. Maybe STI too, but I also thought STI was out of the single stack business.Rock River makes a poly framed 1911, and the Staccato R is a similar idea.

Personally I feel like USPSA single stack division and all ten people who shoot it should open the rules up a bit more to allow poly framed 1911s, Sig 220s and even the Glock 43x or 48.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Whirlwind06]

Rock River makes a poly framed 1911, and the Staccato R is a similar idea.

Personally I feel like USPSA single stack division and all ten people who shoot it should open the rules up a bit more to allow poly framed 1911s, Sig 220s and even the Glock 43x or 48.

Sent from my moto g(6) using TapatalkDidn't they used to allow TDA until Ernest Langdon made a lot of 1911 guys nervous with a Sig 220?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Eyesquared]

Rock River makes a poly framed 1911, and the Staccato R is a similar idea.

Personally I feel like USPSA single stack division and all ten people who shoot it should open the rules up a bit more to allow poly framed 1911s, Sig 220s and even the Glock 43x or 48.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

If they want to shoot SIG 220s or Glock 43Xs or 48s they can still shoot Production or L10. Also, all indications are that the Staccato R is going to be considered single stack legal, since it's a metal frame with a polymer grip. Not sure where the RIA or EAA polymer 1911s will fall. At the end of the day the single stack division is supposed to be a 1911 division and it doesn't make much sense to me to change it.

[RevolverRob]

What makes more sense is to eliminate single stack division and allow production 1911s and production SAO guns to compete in PRODUCTION.

But that’ll never happen, ever.

[Jared]

Didn't they used to allow TDA until Ernest Langdon made a lot of 1911 guys nervous with a Sig 220?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Think that was IDPA CPD division. IIRC they added a weight limit that made the SIG P220 with the stainless frame illegal after Ernest won a national championship in CDP division with that gun.

[45dotACP]

What makes more sense is to eliminate single stack division and allow production 1911s and production SAO guns to compete in PRODUCTION.

But that’ll never happen, ever.I mean...a guy local to me shoots a tuned sig 320 in carry optics and the trigger on that gun is basically SAO. All he has to do is download his mags and take off the red Dot and it's a production gun.

Anyhow, yeah I'm pretty sure the RRA poly 1911 is single stack legal. Not sure about the EAA polymer 1911, but IMO their steel framed 1911 looks like all it needs is some pachmayr grips and then it's all sorts of right.

I'd be tempted if I didn't already have a stable of 1911s

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Eyesquared]

I mean...a guy local to me shoots a tuned sig 320 in carry optics and the trigger on that gun is basically SAO. All he has to do is download his mags and take off the red Dot and it's a production gun.

Anyhow, yeah I'm pretty sure the RRA poly 1911 is single stack legal. Not sure about the EAA polymer 1911, but IMO their steel framed 1911 looks like all it needs is some pachmayr grips and then it's all sorts of right.

I'd be tempted if I didn't already have a stable of 1911s

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

In my opinion it would make sense for the org to introduce a trigger weight requirement for production, like in IPSC, but it seems like that would be pretty unlikely at this point.

[MGW]

What makes more sense is to eliminate single stack division and allow production 1911s and production SAO guns to compete in PRODUCTION.

But that’ll never happen, ever.

I compete against production guns with a single stack at a couple of matches a year. Not USPSA but the same rule set. It’s tough but not unreasonable. If someone made reliable 10 round mags for 45 I think I could hang with them a little better.

I’m an outsider looking in at USPSA but I think they could eliminate a lot of divisions and improve the sport. There really isn’t anything that can’t be covered by production, limited, carry optics, and open. Let single stack compete in production and your all set.

[Tokarev]

Sound's not the best but here's a bit of info on some of the new stuff:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/01/30/shot-2020-eaa-corps-imports-optics-equipped-1911-model-92/

[MandoWookie]

What's the general consensus on EAA quality? Would the poly frame 1911s be a huge risk or are they generally accepted as good value?

Reason I ask is:
https://www.classicfirearms.com/eaa-600344-tanfo-witness-1911p-9mm-425/

The poly framed 9mm commander is showing as sub $400 when you add to cart. That's cheap enough its simultaneously tempting and setting off alarm bells.

[Hemiram]

EAA is only an importer, they don't make anything. Tanfoglio guns are VG in my opinion. I've never had even one that hasn't been great. Only have 4 now, but I've owned over a dozen.

[gato naranja]

EAA is only an importer, they don't make anything. Tanfoglio guns are VG in my opinion.

EAA has, however, been responsible for some of the most unintentionally hilarious gunrag advertisements ever.

My son had a Tanfo (EAA Witness) that was quite serviceable. Looking back, he should have used it until it wore out because its resale value was nil and what he replaced it with didn't group or function any better.

[Whirlwind06]

My only concern would be EAA's reputation for very poor customer service.

[Half Moon]

What's the general consensus on EAA quality? Would the poly frame 1911s be a huge risk or are they generally accepted as good value?

Reason I ask is:
https://www.classicfirearms.com/eaa-600344-tanfo-witness-1911p-9mm-425/

The poly framed 9mm commander is showing as sub $400 when you add to cart. That's cheap enough its simultaneously tempting and setting off alarm bells.

I've owned two of the Witnesses [Tanfoglio CZ-75 clones) both in 9 mm - a steel frame and a polymer frame. The polymer got traded away pretty fast. It was decent quality and a serviceable shooter. It was also, though, disproportionally whippy and slightly painful to shoot.. Not sure why. I liked the grip shape and the weight was high enough it shouldn't have felt like that. Maybe something in the polymer formula or the balance between frame weight and slide weight. Whatever it was I'd want to try the 1911 polymer before buying one.

[YVK]

What's the general consensus on EAA quality?


As already mentioned, the question is not about EAA but manufacturers that EAA is importing. Not a general consensus but one guy's experience (though witnessed by a number of pf-ers who I shoot matches with): if given a Tanfoglio for free, I would sell it without taking it out of the box.
I had two Stock 2s several years ago, they were it gun for the Production. I spent about 125% of guns costs to make them work, both of them. They went to every shop that claimed to be Tanfo expert at that time and took work. One even went to Ned Christiansen, 'cause he is a buddy, who did the best he could. Sold both at about 80% of total investment and with the disclosures.
Later was told by a Tanfo sponsored shooter that their 2016 guns were fucked up. I hope that it was at least a good wine year in Italy.

[RevolverRob]

What's the general consensus on EAA quality? Would the poly frame 1911s be a huge risk or are they generally accepted as good value?

Reason I ask is:
https://www.classicfirearms.com/eaa-600344-tanfo-witness-1911p-9mm-425/

The poly framed 9mm commander is showing as sub $400 when you add to cart. That's cheap enough its simultaneously tempting and setting off alarm bells.

Hmm...that’s a decent enough price to be tempting.

Simultaneously, my hard rule on bull barrel 1911s is, “Don’t”. They don’t really accomplish anything besides eliminating a step in production, making takedown a tool necessity affair, and limiting parts and spring choices for troubleshooting.

There aren’t a lot of true 4.25” bull barrel guns, so recoil springs will likely be an issue.

I’d probably stick only to their bushing equipped guns.

[MandoWookie]

Hmm...that’s a decent enough price to be tempting.

Simultaneously, my hard rule on bull barrel 1911s is, “Don’t”. They don’t really accomplish anything besides eliminating a step in production, making takedown a tool necessity affair, and limiting parts and spring choices for troubleshooting.

There aren’t a lot of true 4.25” bull barrel guns, so recoil springs will likely be an issue.

I’d probably stick only to their bushing equipped guns.

Yeah, it seems like a perfect storm of possible problems. 9mm 1911s seem to have a reputation for being finicky with high end makers, a foreign import sub $400 9mm 1911 of unclear origin? Seems like a dice roll. A polymer frame that seems to just copy the dimensions of a steel frame, to the point of molding in faux grip panels make me think of the issues with AR15 poly lowers that follow the same design philosophy having long history of issues.
And your point about bull barrels is also a good one, that I have some experience with, as the main reason this is tempting is to replace a Rock Island Commander that my father owns, that's currently sitting unused due to the front site having fallen off, and the gunsmith installed replacement having joined its predecessor in committing seppuku, his enthusiasm for a third round of frustration in getting it resolved has left him with a gun that he feels both isn't worth it to sell in it's current condition, but also isn't worth it to fix either.
Thus the temptation of this EAA/Tangfolio, though it seems it would be a $400 path to the same frustrations it would be intended to replace.

[RevolverRob]

as the main reason this is tempting is to replace a Rock Island Commander that my father owns, that's currently sitting unused due to the front site having fallen off, and the gunsmith installed replacement having joined its predecessor in committing seppuku, his enthusiasm for a third round of frustration in getting it resolved has left him with a gun that he feels both isn't worth it to sell in it's current condition, but also isn't worth it to fix either.

If it is a tenon-staked sight that fell out, use a good tenon staker and some red loctite. - https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/stake-trijicon-1911-front-sight/78176 - Make sure to use a proper dimensioned sight (there are two tenon-sizes, narrow and wide; narrow is the original GI-pattern, wide is what is mostly used now, I don't actually remember if RIA uses the narrow or wide, I want to think wide).

If it is a dovetail, email Armscor with the serial number and find out if it uses Novak-dimension dovetails (all of them since ~2013 do) or the older non-novak dimension dovetails.

If it's a Novak and the cut is slightly oversized, order a gunsmith fit Novak front sight from Novaks, Evolution Gunworks, or Harrison Precision. A good file, a dovetail sight fitter, and a couple of hours is all it takes to make it work. If you really want it to never go anywhere, install a sight with a cross pin, then drill the slide and pin it in place. A hard-fit dovetail + pinned front sight will probably not move again in either your father's nor your lifetimes.

[MandoWookie]

If it is a tenon-staked sight that fell out, use a good tenon staker and some red loctite. - https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/stake-trijicon-1911-front-sight/78176 - Make sure to use a proper dimensioned sight (there are two tenon-sizes, narrow and wide; narrow is the original GI-pattern, wide is what is mostly used now, I don't actually remember if RIA uses the narrow or wide, I want to think wide).

If it is a dovetail, email Armscor with the serial number and find out if it uses Novak-dimension dovetails (all of them since ~2013 do) or the older non-novak dimension dovetails.

If it's a Novak and the cut is slightly oversized, order a gunsmith fit Novak front sight from Novaks, Evolution Gunworks, or Harrison Precision. A good file, a dovetail sight fitter, and a couple of hours is all it takes to make it work. If you really want it to never go anywhere, install a sight with a cross pin, then drill the slide and pin it in place. A hard-fit dovetail + pinned front sight will probably not move again in either your father's nor your lifetimes.

Its the tenon type.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/product/35177/rock_island_armory_51417_gi_standard_manual_safety _ca_compliant_single_45_acp_425_8+1_wood_gr

This model specifically. I believe I've told the tale on here before with the trials and tribulations of trying get this issue corrected, so I wont bore with the details. Short version is, neither my father nor I have the tools or the knowledge to fix the issue ourselves, so we did the sensible thing and took it to the claimed "professionals" to resolve. After a quoted 2-6 week task ended up taking 6 months, and the received work both lacking in apparent quality and proving to be supremely shoddy in actual use, with the front sight once again achieving an apparent low-earth orbit, we have both of us become disheartened by the ordeal and wish to largely wash our hands of the whole thing.
But we found ourselves in the position of having a handgun we cannot use, that is both not worth it to fix, and also not worth it to sell. The siren song of "cheap" guns once again exacts harsh lessons. Yet as my participation in this thread demonstrates, it"s a call that hard to resist.