Downside to AK only?

[jwperry]

Doing a lot of outdoors camping and boating lead me to purchase a side folding AK (SLR106) for its compactness. I can fold it and stick it in my backpack and it works reliability without lubricant(which is caused by me flipping over in my kayak which has happened). All in all, I like it. But, it serves the same purpose as my AR15. I've found no discernible difference in accuracy potential out to 230 yards(the max I can shoot/measure at) between the SLR and my AR.

My worry goes into the training aspect. I've received the blessing from SWMBO to get do more rifle training. I've been trying to find as many resources on 'neutral' sites about the pros/cons of having the AK as the only training rifle. I've read through rob_s's "A year with the AK" and didn't really find anything that would be a detriment. But, on the other hand, some trainers and training regiments seem to be geared to NATO/M4FOW shooting only.

Am I over thinking this?

[Jay Cunningham]

You seem to be thinking about it quite well. :o

Look, the AK is the most ubiquitous carbine in the world, followed closely by the AR. They are both great rifles and will serve you well if you have a good one and learn how to use it.

The 5.56mm AKs are *really nice* IF they run well - which sometimes they don't. There definitely are some quirks to getting the most out of running an AK as compared to efficiently running an M4 type carbine.

[GJM]

I have an Arsenal 107CR, and it has been terrific for me -- as long as you don't mind shooting in flight gloves, to avoid the sharp edges when running it hard, are OK with slower reloads, and don't want to run a conventional optic/ NV monocular. Not sure I get the rationale for an AK in a caliber other than 7.62x39, though?

[BWT]

I have an Arsenal 107CR, and it has been terrific for me -- as long as you don't mind shooting in flight gloves, to avoid the sharp edges when running it hard, are OK with slower reloads, and don't want to run a conventional optic/ NV monocular. Not sure I get the rationale for an AK in a caliber other than 7.62x39, though?

Best of both worlds, maybe?

Cheap High Quality Commercial ammo available in many varieties and an AK?

I don't know about you, but there have been some moments recently where 7.62x39mm was a bit sparse as in, I could find none... Okay, I could find it at 6-8$ a box of 20, so in my mind, I could find none. But, also, buying say a case of a 1,000 .223 and being able to share it amongst all of your weapons, is nice as well.

ETA: The only thing that kills the 105 for me... is that they cost a $1,000 these days. Literally two years ago they were in the 700's.

[Lon]

If they would let me carry an AK at work I never would have sold my Arsenal SAM-5. I loved that rifle. It ran like a scalded dog. I never felt like i was at a disadvantage with it. Won quite a few local rifle matches with it. I sent it off for the Lightning Bolt mod (left side charging handle) which made it even better. I bought a 5.45 AK for training
Classes since ammo is so cheap. Matter of fact, i would have bought a 106 and SBR'd it for work if I could carry it.

With proper training and practice an AK is not that much slot to run than an AR. You can also drop a micro aimpoint on your 106 and have an even better setup. A good trainer will be able to instruct both AK AND AR platforms.

[rob_s]

The primary downside is that IF it breaks in a class you're likely to be on your own. Forget mags? you're on your own.

Also bear in mind that manipulations and such will be taught to the M4 so if you don't get AK-specific training first you're going to have to make it up on your own. The key to my year with the AK was taking Randy Cain's AK Operators class first to learn how to run the gun. I changed some things from what he taught us over the course of the year but I started with a good base.

[ford.304]

If you don't mind the slight derail, can I get a link to the "A year with the AK" mentioned? I ran several google searches and came up empty.

[Al T.]

But, on the other hand, some trainers and training regiments seem to be geared to NATO/M4FOW shooting only.

True, but. :) Once you have a good basis in training, it's simpler to adjust to what ever platform your running. Sort of like once you learn to drive a car, you can take that skillset and apply it to a forklift, lawn mower, truck, etc., etc.

I'd also note that Randy Cain has some carbine classes just down I-4 from you.

http://www.guntactics.com/schedule.htm

[Al T.]

Ford - ask and ye shall receive. :)

http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/projects---guns/365-days-of-ak

[ford.304]

Thanks.

[jwperry]

I have an Arsenal 107CR, and it has been terrific for me -- as long as you don't mind shooting in flight gloves, to avoid the sharp edges when running it hard, are OK with slower reloads, and don't want to run a conventional optic/ NV monocular. Not sure I get the rationale for an AK in a caliber other than 7.62x39, though?

I've been using Mechanix gloves, but plan on upgrading to something with a bit more meat around the thumb/palm area as my Ultimak cooks my hand after about 150 rounds.
I choose the 5.56 AK because, at this time, it shares ammo with my AR and for future use I'm not dependent on foreign manufactured ammo.


The primary downside is that IF it breaks in a class you're likely to be on your own. Forget mags? you're on your own.

Also bear in mind that manipulations and such will be taught to the M4 so if you don't get AK-specific training first you're going to have to make it up on your own. The key to my year with the AK was taking Randy Cain's AK Operators class first to learn how to run the gun. I changed some things from what he taught us over the course of the year but I started with a good base.

I've looked at his schedule and didn't see an AK specific course anymore on the Southern Exposure website. But that will be my first stop for carbine training as I'm from Lakeland and have places to stay in that area.
I didn't see on your training calendar on TYV, but do you still do the low light/no light shooting once a month?

[Jay Cunningham]

Larry Vickers, Pat Rogers, and Travis Haley do dedicated AK classes, off the top of my head.

Gabe Suarez has doubled down on the whole concept, if you're into him. Paul Gomez is big into AKs I believe.

I myself teach a two day class called "Quirks of the Kalashnikov" which I thoroughly enjoy.

[jwperry]

Larry Vickers, Pat Rogers, and Travis Haley do dedicated AK classes, off the top of my head.

Gabe Suarez has doubled down on the whole concept, if you're into him. Paul Gomez is big into AKs I believe.

I myself teach a two day class called "Quirks of the Kalashnikov" which I thoroughly enjoy.

There is another VSM instructor advertising classes here in FL, are AK pattern rifle manipulations specific to the qualifications for you guys? Having never taken a VSM class I wouldn't know what to expect from different instructors.

If I ever find my way to PA, I'll have to try to do it when your doing one of your courses. I've done a lot of reading on m4c about from your malfunction clearance thread and that knowledge is greatly appreciated.

[rob_s]

I think Randy's AK class may have been a one-time gig. It was only a two-day and everyone in it had already taken his carbine course before IIRC.

[GJM]

In the last few years, I ran an AK thru a Randy Cain AK class, a Pat Rogers carbine class and an Urban Combat class at Gunsite. While I prefer the ergos on an AR, I have a great respect for an AK. Not a single stoppage thru all the classes combined, and thru all my practice with my Arsenal and Krebs AK's, and besides lifting the dust cover and squirting in some lube, I try to clean them every other year.

I do understand an AK in .556 as a sub caliber training device, for an AK in 7.62x39. If I wanted to shoot .556 it would be in an AR, for the same reasons I would shoot 9mm in a Glock or HK as opposed to a 1911.

[Jay Cunningham]

There is another VSM instructor advertising classes here in FL, are AK pattern rifle manipulations specific to the qualifications for you guys? Having never taken a VSM class I wouldn't know what to expect from different instructors.

If I ever find my way to PA, I'll have to try to do it when your doing one of your courses. I've done a lot of reading on m4c about from your malfunction clearance thread and that knowledge is greatly appreciated.

I am no longer a VSM instructor. Back when I was, I did have Larry's blessing to teach an AK specific class under the VSM banner.

My fundamental carbine classes are AR-centric out of necessity, but if you show up with an AK or an AUG or whatever, I'll hit some specific differences in manipulation.

My AK class requires that you shoot an AK and AK specific manipulations are taught.

[jwperry]

I am no longer a VSM instructor. Back when I was, I did have Larry's blessing to teach an AK specific class under the VSM banner.

My fundamental carbine classes are AR-centric out of necessity, but if you show up with an AK or an AUG or whatever, I'll hit some specific differences in manipulation.

My AK class requires that you shoot an AK and AK specific manipulations are taught.

Sorry, I wasn't aware you weren't a VSM anymore.

Time to sit down and see when I can start training. :cool:

Let's hope my pistol shooting doesn't suffer..

[dickmadison]

If you have an ak in 5.56 and it works, I don't see a reason to change. An ak in that caliber would not be my first choice because of all of the reliability issues that I have read about them. That being said, it seems your AK is running like a top so no need to worry.

I don't see any problems sticking with an AK. I've chosen it as my go to rifle and believe it is a much easier platform to run and its reliable as hell. If you watch any videos/go to classes/read forums, there are no less than a dozen malfunction clearances you have to learn to diagnose and learn to do for the ar-15. With the AK there are two (maybe 3)...1)make sure mag is seated and run the bolt, 2)take out mag, run bolt a couple times, insert mag, run bolt, or 3)on the very rare rare rare occurrence that a cartridge gets stuck in the receiver, you have to take off the top cover.

Unless you want to learn how to use the ar-15 battery of arms, learn how to run an AK, and you can take any rifle class you want.