5.45x39 any good for Home Defense?

[GlorifiedMailman]

I have a friend who only owns a Russian SGL-31 AK74 in 5.45x39, and a Glock 19. He carries the G19, but is considering switching to the 74 for home defense. I'm aware from DocGKR's work that there are no good commercial expanding 5.45 loads, but would 7N6 be a bad choice for home defense over a 9mm pistol loaded with a round from DocGKR's list?

He's asked me for advice, but I'm still deliberating on what I'd recommend. I've generally always thought "Rifle rounds > Pistol rounds", but with the lack of well-engineered duty/defense loadings for 5.45mm, does that still hold true in this case? Is a yawing 5.45 7N6 projectile still more effective than a quality 9mm projectile in terms of wound ballistics?

For some background, this person lives out in the country alone, the nearest neighbor is miles away.

[BWT]

A tumbling mild steel core round is not best.

I think Hornady has a load that may work best. It seems they have a V-Max in 60.

Now here’s a thought as well - those arsenal SGL series AK’s go for a ton. He could sell it and buy a quality AR.

[GlorifiedMailman]

A tumbling mild steel core round is not best.

I think Hornady has a load that may work best. It seems they have a V-Max in 60.

Now here’s a thought as well - those arsenal SGL series AK’s go for a ton. He could sell it and buy a quality AR.

I did mention him getting an AR. He wants to stick with an AK platform for whatever reason. He was in the military in a former-Eastern-Bloc country and says that's what he's the most experienced and comfortable with.

I've been unable to find professionally-conducted testing on the Hornady load in 5.45. I can only find dubious Youtube testing with invalid Clear Gel, and even in that it seems to underpenetrate.

I know that 7N6 5.45 isn't the best choice for home defense, but is it more effective than a quality pistol projectile?

[LittleLebowski]

5.45 sure has done nasty things to jackrabbits and coyotes in my experience. I would never feel undergunned with it.

[Borderland]

5.45 sure has done nasty things to jackrabbits and coyotes in my experience. I would never feel undergunned with it.

In your house?

[Duelist]

I may have missed it, but did you read this: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4341-Russian-Rifle-Caliber-Wounding-Effects

[GlorifiedMailman]

I may have missed it, but did you read this: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4341-Russian-Rifle-Caliber-Wounding-Effects

I did, that is the basis for my knowledge of the wound ballistics of 5.45. It is, as Doc's testing shows, inferior to quality-constructed 5.56 and 7.62x39 projectiles in terms of wounding effectiveness, but right now I'm talking about how it stacks up in effectiveness vs a handgun round with a quality JHP, and how effective 7N6 is in general at incapacitating.

[LittleLebowski]

In your house?

Nope, on the Wyoming prairie.

[Duelist]

I did, that is the basis for my knowledge of the wound ballistics of 5.45. It is, as Doc's testing shows, inferior to quality-constructed 5.56 and 7.62x39 projectiles in terms of wounding effectiveness, but right now I'm talking about how it stacks up in effectiveness vs a handgun round with a quality JHP.

I’ve never owned or used a 5.45 AK, but ... it’s a rifle, so it’d have to suck to be inferior to a 4” barreled 9mm. And you said he served in a military that issued something similar/identical to the rifle he has. Familiarity, training, and competence mean a lot. Probably more than whatever bullet actually comes out of the barrel.

[Olim9]

I’ve never owned or used a 5.45 AK, but ... it’s a rifle, so it’d have to suck to be inferior to a 4” barreled 9mm. And you said he served in a military that issued something similar/identical to the rifle he has. Familiarity, training, and competence mean a lot. Probably more than whatever bullet actually comes out of the barrel.

Agreed. A flat shooting carbine that reliably sends out projectiles going out at around 3,000fps should be plenty good for defensive use. It would still be worth looking into the ideal cartridge but treat it like you would a handgun; if the first round does not have the desired effect on target, shoot it until it does. It is rather unfortunate just how limited the 5.45 is when it comes to loads.

[spyderco monkey]

7n6 is a perfectly fine load; certainly far superior to any pistol caliber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db8XSKi7U7I

[Hizzie]

Hornady is pretty much the only game in town.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hAdpJE9Yi3s

[GlorifiedMailman]

Hornady is pretty much the only game in town.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hAdpJE9Yi3s

Looks good in that video, but I'm skeptical of the validity of YouTube gel tests. DocGKR says they're not to be trusted. We don't know what calibration the block has, whether it's tue 10% FBI-spec ballistics ordnance gel that has a proven correlation with living tissue, what temperature the block was stored at, and what temp the block was during testing.

I don't suppose DocGKR has done any testing on the Hornady 5.45 load? I doubt he gets agencies wanting that tested.

It looks like the 7N6 is the only 5.45 load with verified professional testing done on it. I'm aware it's not as good as something like a Federal Fusion .223 or Winchester SoftPoint 7.62x39, but is it "good" in terms of effectiveness?

[Oukaapie]

Andrew at chopping block got 9 inches from the vmax. I’d probably go with something else.

[DocGKR]

Better than a handgun; for home defensive purposes, I'd likely use the Hornady 60 gr VMAX load in 5.45mm, although it is not ideal against barriers.....

[GlorifiedMailman]

Better than a handgun; for home defensive purposes, I'd likely use the Hornady 60 gr VMAX load in 5.45mm, although it is not ideal against barriers.....

My only concern with him using the Hornady load was underpenetration, but that settles it. I'll recommend the Hornady VMAX. Thanks Doc, and everyone else who responded.

[GlorifiedMailman]

The 9" of penetration in the Chopping Block Test, dubious as it may be, does raise some concerns, though...

[LittleLebowski]

Man, that Soviet surplus does crazy shit after hitting a barrier. We saw that in a Failure2Stop class.

[LittleLebowski]

Man, that Soviet surplus does crazy shit after hitting a barrier. We saw that in a Failure2Stop class.

[Alpha Sierra]

Looks good in that video, but I'm skeptical of the validity of YouTube gel tests. DocGKR says they're not to be trusted. We don't know what calibration the block has, whether it's tue 10% FBI-spec ballistics ordnance gel that has a proven correlation with living tissue, what temperature the block was stored at, and what temp the block was during testing.

Jesus H Christ............it's a rifle with a shitload of ammo in it.

How many people have Russian soldiers killed with whatever their issue FMJ is? More than enough.

Shoot the threat till it's done being a threat and screw the gel tests.

[GlorifiedMailman]

He's now on a backorder list for the Hornady 5.45 (which seems not to be common), but is keeping 7n6 in the rifle for home defense right now. Is 7n6 specifically an effective round against people? I understand everything pointed out in Doc's sticky about it not being as good as a quality 5.56 or 7.62x39, but looking at it just on the basis of it being more than sufficient or not, is it?

[BigT]

He's now on a backorder list for the Hornady 5.45 (which seems not to be common), but is keeping 7n6 in the rifle for home defense right now. Is 7n6 specifically an effective round against people? I understand everything pointed out in Doc's sticky about it not being as good as a quality 5.56 or 7.62x39, but looking at it just on the basis of it being more than sufficient or not, is it?


Dude , seriously its a rifle. A rifle catridge combo with a pretty serious track record. It will work fine if he does his part.

[Alpha Sierra]

Is 7n6 specifically an effective round against people?

I would ask the Russian Army that. I bet they know.

[LittleLebowski]

Dude , seriously its a rifle. A rifle catridge combo with a pretty serious track record. It will work fine if he does his part.