Rookie Question: What is the Proper SHO/WHO Presentation Technique?

[Corlissimo]

I originally posted this in Todd's Dry-fire Routine (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1598-Dry-Fire-Routine&p=69002#post69002) thread but moved it to here for better visibility and to avoid thread drift there. My search-fu has failed me so I seek the knowledge of the gurus:

What is the proper way to do both SHO and WHO press out/presentation during the dry-fire drills?

On a side note, I'm a LH shooter and experience the following:
My WHO sight picture remains virtually motionless during trigger press. Not complaining at all, but it just seems a bit strange.

My SHO sight picture always seem to have a little motion in the left, upper left directions. Not a lot, but noticeable, especially in contrast to the WHO.

I believe it might have something to do with differences in my grip between each hand, even though I diligently try to ensure they are the same. Maybe minor differences in hand size/finger length might play a role, but I don't know for sure. Any ideas or suggestions to help me diagnose this?

Thanks!

[GJM]

The $64 question, since dry fire is practice for live fire, is what happens to your shots when you shoot live ammo?

[Corlissimo]

The $64 question, since dry fire is practice for live fire, is what happens to your shots when you shoot live ammo?

Pretty similar results with the exception that the deviations are greater.

5 shot group @ 5yds
SHO & WHO= best : ~ 2" worst: ~ 3"

The issue I see is that while POI=POA (for the most part) on WHO, the SHO groups follow the trend I see during dry-fire, namely POI a little high & left of POA. While this isn't great, I think it could be worse since I don't feel like I'm experiencing issues with flinching, yanking/slapping the trigger and things like that since it mirrors dry-fire observations.

I really need to get some instruction/diagnosis from some SMEs. The guys over at Eagle1 aren't bad but I think they are better suited to true first-time shooters. They helped me initially back then but now they always just tell me I'm doing good. They don't push me and I'm not confident they have required knowledge to.

Read a review on F2S last week and never realized they were so close to my home. I'll have to schedule some marksmanship class time there I think.

[GJM]

I think shooting support hand only at speed is the single hardest pistol skill to develop, and that a .22 revolver, that gives you practice steering the sights while pulling a long, heavy trigger is what has helped me the most.

[Corlissimo]

I think shooting support hand only at speed is the single hardest pistol skill to develop, and that a .22 revolver, that gives you practice steering the sights while pulling a long, heavy trigger is what has helped me the most.

I've heard similar expressed here and in other places. Maybe I'll take a look at that.
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Any help with the main question?

I haven't really found any information about SHO & WHO presentation/press outs.
My guess is that it's just from a high #2 position, which I can do no problem SHO when working through the draw process.

Since I current carry SS, getting the WHO draw is impossible for me.
Should I just work WHO from a high #2 and go from there? Or, should I just use low ready as a starting point.
Really confused about this as I don't want to create bad habits, or corrupt good ones.

The whole context of this question is based on Todd's Dry-fire routine and using those exercises as my own as a starting point.

[ToddG]

A press out is a press out is a press out. The technique doesn't change just because one less hand is on the gun.

[Corlissimo]

A press out is a press out is a press out. The technique doesn't change just because one less hand is on the gun.

So, you're saying that starting from the high #2 is the way to go, right?

[ToddG]

I don't know what "high 2" is. I start from the same ready position I normally use, which is gun at approximately a 45-degree angle in front of my face, front sight at eye level.

[Corlissimo]

I don't know what "high 2" is. I start from the same ready position I normally use, which is gun at approximately a 45-degree angle in front of my face, front sight at eye level.

Okay.
I was referring to the retention position, with SS thumb indexed against the pec, then pressing out from there, but one handed. Does that make sense, or am I mixed up in my terminology and understanding?

ETA:
It was the term "press-out" in following items from your routine that prompted me to think this way:

5. 5 reps of Wall Drill from press-out, SHO
6. 5 reps of Wall Drill from press-out, WHO

Thanks for the clarification.

[GJM]

Two more thoughts, since SHO is near and dear to me. First, while basic instruction to eliminate gross technique errors is important, for me the key was/is to shoot lots and lots of rounds, until I could shoot SHO at a subconscious level. Second, once I started drawing a pistol from the support side, and shooting SHO, I realized that drawing and shooting is different enough than starting at the high ready, that there is another skill set required to do this well.

[YVK]

A press out is a press out is a press out. The technique doesn't change just because one less hand is on the gun.

Been working on this since the dismal WHO runs on DoW, and have found quite a bit of difference. That visual control over the gun, the rough sight picture that I have to have before getting on the trigger happens considerably earlier with TH/SHO than WHO. By the time I align my dominant eye, front sight and the target, I am at least half extended with WHO. The result is obvious half less time to finalize the sight picture and work through a trigger press, with subsequent horrible hits. I've tried several things, including shooting with non-dominant eye, and it has not been great so far.

[EMC]

Been working on this since the dismal WHO runs on DoW, and have found quite a bit of difference. That visual control over the gun, the rough sight picture that I have to have before getting on the trigger happens considerably earlier with TH/SHO than WHO. By the time I align my dominant eye, front sight and the target, I am at least half extended with WHO. The result is obvious half less time to finalize the sight picture and work through a trigger press, with subsequent horrible hits. I've tried several things, including shooting with non-dominant eye, and it has not been great so far.

With WHO press out, do you slightly angle the gun towards the dominant eye side?

[YVK]

With WHO press out, do you slightly angle the gun towards the dominant eye side?

Yes, and I slightly rotate my head to the left.

[MDS]

Not a sme, but got a good tip at Rogers this week which helped my who shooting. I was doing a slower press out to give me time to align the sights and break the shot at extension. Another shooter mentioned that I should press out just as fast as usual, and make final adjustments after extension and before breaking the shot. He said this would make for faster accurate shots now, and my scores showed that. He also said that I would keep getting faster at acquiring a good sight picture during the quicker press out, and eventually be able to break at extension at full speed.

Hearsay and ymmv, but it made sense to me at the time.