Thoughts on what Trump should do for the 2A

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I'm waiting for Trump's legislative agenda to enhance and expand the instantiation of the 2nd Amend. as compared to saying he will 'defend' the 2nd Amend. The only action that he initiated was a ban.

His friendly Congress in the first two years did not try to pass gun rights enhancements with the vigor of tax cuts and attacking Obama care. Even faced with a filibuster, the bills could have been brought up repeatedly or have some of the milder ones attached to necessary measures. Recall the HPA vanished. Cornyn's reciprocity (granted that is controversial) was proclaimed! He sent me messages about it. Where did it go?

Yes, the Democrats will take the guns away. When will the wonder twins in SCOTUS get that august body of its butt to take a case that truly and unambiguously voids the state bans? Years go by and scrumptious scrutiny of modern spurting rifles goes nowhere.

Let's see the enhancement agenda in the next state of the union that proposes more than 'defending'.

[JohnO]

As a guy from Connecticut I read through this thread and it's all quite familiar. We went through this shit and lost. Post Sandy Hook then Dem. Gov. Malloy and the democrat super majority in the State House rammed registration for AWs and LCMs (Large Capacity Magazines) down our throats. No more state defined AWs or LCMs allowed to be transferred. There are a few hidden got yah's that no one initially anticipated. For example lets just say you get Red Flagged for any reason. Your AWs are gone for good. Per the law they must be transferred out of your name when confiscated. There is no possible way under the new law to transfer them back to you when you clear up the matter.

Gun owners turned out for protests at the state capitol. However even though the crowd looked large it should have been 50 times larger. There was an organized day where the capitol was flooded with gun owners lobbying there respective representatives. I remember the day well. It was in the single digits and many including me had to wait hours in line to get through the metal detector to gain access to the building. Guess what happened. Once the crowd was finally inside someone ran a fire drill. Yup everyone forced out into the cold only to wait in long lines again.

I'm hoping you have a better caliber of people in VA. Too many in CT adopted the "let someone else do something mentality". Plenty of Fuds post Sandy Hook found out they couldn't buy their yearly box of deer cartridges because they never had a CCW and didn't know that the new laws required an Ammunition Purchase Permit. This shit is serious and CT shows it can be done.

You probably have seen this first video (it went viral). Many of us tried our best. Henson is a friend. (Larry Vickers was so impressed with Henson's testimony he comped him a slot in his Advanced Pistol Class in CT later that year.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buNSCAqB7EA

Another friend. An 18C SF Piper Hitter. His business went belly up. He went back to active duty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccv5tx_Ri4o

And finally another friend who decided to leave CT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au56XgUE1og

There is a CT contingent on the way down for the rally. Sic semper tyrannis!

[ccmdfd]

Hate to sound like a Debbie Downer, but with the D's controlling the House, any pro 2A bill would not even be allowed to be heard in committee.

The only way I can even conceive of the HPA being brought up would be to attach it to a pot of gold for the left, like a permanent AWB, or perhaps a major climate change bill. Then many on the right would vote against it.

Heck it might not even pass the Senate the way things currently are.

I don't see DT wasting his time knowing what is going to happen.

As for the SC, even Scalia said bans are allowable. I don't see the two new guys and Roberts as being further right leaning than him.

of course just my opinion
cc

[blues]

Hate to sound like a Debbie Downer, but with the D's controlling the House, any pro 2A bill would not even be allowed to be heard in committee.



The failure to compromise has led to this...


https://youtu.be/V2f-MZ2HRHQ

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I don't see DT wasting his time knowing what is going to happen.

I disagree. You should not be quiet on what should be done. During the first two years, when the Democrats didn't have control, the bills could have been passed in the House. Mitch could have pushed them to filibuster in the Senate.

The repeated repeals of Obamacare were not seen as a waste of time. It put down a marker.

Same idea could have been used in Trump's first two years. Announcing a priority in the State of the Union is not a waste of time. IMHO, the ruling class in the GOP are not interested in expanding gun rights or removing the issue from their campaign appeals.

I am going now to load magazines that are limited in capacity because of my new location. Yes, I had other reasons for the move than guns. I have no confidence that a SCOTUS save will surface in the time I have left as I am 72.

[RevolverRob]

It'll never happen, because at the end of the day neither the Republicans nor Democrats care about reducing legislation or regaining rights lost for their citizens. They care about money; and guns, like abortion, are just ways of leveraging more pork for their given districts.

You want a new highway appropriation? Better drop your support of the Hearing Protection Act. I mean, do we want Joe The Plumber having a silencer? Think of all the people in your district who need their roads repaved...

Donald Trump cares about what makes Trump look good. I don't think he gives a shit about much of any of the legislation being passed, except what can make him money down stream. No president or presidential candidate understands what the average American needs from their government. They hear, vaguely, what they want, but don't care about the needs. It's smoke, mirrors, and rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic from time-to-time to make people think they give a shit.

For me; while I would delight in the repeal of the NFA and all of its downstream laws, along with a Supreme Court ruling that supercedes the state's ability to regulate firearms beyond interstate commerce; I recognize that such things are pipe dreams that mean nothing. At this point we need to vigorously defend what we have, clean our own fucking house (looking at you, NRA), and make sure we do not let incremental or vicious attempts to undermine the rights of the people go unchecked. Otherwise, what I want is very simple - to be left the fuck alone.

[Savage Hands]

Snarky posts were not enough? You decided to make a thread as well?

Why doesn’t the cantankerous crew discuss how the Democrats are attempting to obliterate the 2nd and spark a potential civil war? IMO this is a real credible issue. Depending on any politician or even scotus to secure our rights is pissing in the wind. Fighting against the oppressors through legal means now stops the potential bloodshed in the future.

Should Trump do more to secure our rights? Yes! Do I think he actually will? Doubtful.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I already know that Democrats will not support anything other than rich guys having O/U shotguns. So what. Thus, we should give up on pressuring the supposed supporters of gun rights from being proactive?

If Congress folk do propose positive legislation, I expect strong and vocal support for that legislation at a minimum. You can excuse Donald, Ryan (when he caved) and Mitch all you want and just bitch about known anti gun folks.

You don't think getting a positive, enhancement based message out there, isn't good. The only thing we see are vague defenses, send a check.

[RevolverRob]

Civil War?

Let me repeat that - Civil War?

Stop reading the boogaloo shit.

Go outside and breath some fresh air and turn off the talk radio.

___

More than half our population is obese and/or has diabetes and heart disease. Our kids can barely fucking read. 80% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck and you think there is a fucking civil war imminent? People are working to survive they don't give a shit about your guns most Americans don't give a shit about Planned Parenthood and abortion. These are talking points for ultra wealthy elite who control our society and government to get wealthier through war and fear mongering. The fucking elite have no interest in a Civil War, it doesn't make them money.

___

Civil Fucking War they're talking about. :rolleyes:

[ccmdfd]

[QUOTE=Glenn E. Meyer;982889]I disagree. You should not be quiet on what should be done. During the first two years, when the Democrats didn't have control, the bills could have been passed in the House. Mitch could have pushed them to filibuster in the Senate.

QUOTE]

Thoroughly agree with you on that. Unfortunately it wasn't done. They should have taken lessons from BO about getting the ACA passed when he had control of all 3 branches.

Furthermore, the Vegas shooting pretty much killed the HPA. In the days after the shooting there were prominent members of the D party stating on national TV/cable news that passage of the HPA would have made the shooting much worse. "Imagine if he had used suppressors! Nobody would have known where he was shooting from, so they couldn't have stopped him!"

No one on our side stood up and called them out on that BS. We should have had prominent R's going on TV, internet, and even the floors of Congress and said that those people have no f'ing clue what they are talking about. They could have also educated the public about what suppressors can and what they can't do.

But no, they were silent. Thus my pessimism about making any progress going forward.

cc

[Savage Hands]

I already know that Democrats will not support anything other than rich guys having O/U shotguns. So what. Thus, we should give up on pressuring the supposed supporters of gun rights from being proactive?

If Congress folk do propose positive legislation, I expect strong and vocal support for that legislation at a minimum. You can excuse Donald, Ryan (when he caved) and Mitch all you want and just bitch about known anti gun folks.

You don't think getting a positive, enhancement based message out there, isn't good. The only thing we see are vague defenses, send a check.



I give no politicians who ignore the constitution a pass, and yes I believe on spreading a positive message which I’ve yet to see from you Glenn. You come off as a cranky old man instead of what we know your background to be.

[Savage Hands]

Civil War?

Let me repeat that - Civil War?

Stop reading the boogaloo shit.

Go outside and breath some fresh air and turn off the talk radio.

___

More than half our population is obese and/or has diabetes and heart disease. Our kids can barely fucking read. 80% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck and you think there is a fucking civil war imminent? People are working to survive they don't give a shit about your guns most Americans don't give a shit about Planned Parenthood and abortion. These are talking points for ultra wealthy elite who control our society and government to get wealthier through war and fear mongering. The fucking elite have no interest in a Civil War, it doesn't make them money.

___

Civil Fucking War they're talking about. :rolleyes:


You must not be paying attention to what’s going on in Virginia. It’s the test bed for potential confiscation inside Virginia that can expand to other states. Bad things can potentially escalate from there however it’s labeled and we all lose.

For you to downplay the potential of this is mind numbing, and you’re speaking to someone of an indigenous background where my direct ancestors had their firearms confiscated and most were wiped out by the government one way or another. We were declared officially extinct and they were wrong.

[RevolverRob]

You must not be paying attention to what’s going on in Virginia. It’s the test bed for potential confiscation inside Virginia that can expand to other states. Bad things can potentially escalate from there however it’s labeled and we all lose.

I am paying close attention to Virginia.

And Civil War is not imminent.

Civil War is the end result of a failed legislative, judicial, and governmental system, not the second step following passage of a law that won't survive judicial review.

[Savage Hands]

I am paying close attention to Virginia.

And Civil War is not imminent.

Civil War is the end result of a failed legislative, judicial, and governmental system, not the second step following passage of a law that won't survive judicial review.


Label it whatever you want, we’re looking at the government using the National Guard to assist in confiscation of legally acquired firearms from legal gun owners. And if the government is successful here, this can happen anywhere else in the United States.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I am cranky about this issue. Crankiness in defense of the RKBA is no vice. I'm annoyed by the past lost opportunities.

I am an old man now. I lived through the AWB and saw it go. Now it is coming back on the state levels. I live under it. Will I see them go or expand?

Why do the good people of VA have to go through this? That's more a philosophical question then ask for a replay of how it happened. I understand that.

[Cypher]

JMO the best thing we can do for the RKBA in America is put term limits on the House , the Senate and the Supreme Court (10 years). It will neve happen but that's IMO the best thing we can do to get the idea across to Congress that they are not the new American Nomenklatura

[RevolverRob]

Label it whatever you want, we’re looking at the government using the National Guard to assist in confiscation of legally acquired firearms from legal gun owners. And if the government is successful here, this can happen anywhere else in the United States.

Label it whatever I want?

Okay. Stupid.

There, I labeled it.

Words and terms having meaning. Civil war is one of the most serious terms in existence, it goes beside rebellion, insurrection, sedition, and treason. I'm not saying people in Virginia should not fight for their rights, you should. Nor am I saying you shouldn't be willing to physically fight for them. But if a civil war comes to pass our entire republic is done. This is not something to be taken lightly, bandied about, or even considered in a passing way. It is a very serious statement with broad and massive results.

Think hard about it, a civil war is a fractured union. A fractured union means the suspension of the Constitution, actual fighting and blood in the streets. It means our children are drafted to fight like child soldiers, because the laws cease to have meaning. It means our mothers, daughters, sisters, wives are raped and enslaved, and/or our homes and towns pillaged by enemies. In means "interment" camps. It means Sherman's March to the Sea plays out in a world with nuclear-fucking-weapons and JDAMs.

This isn't a fucking game. The boogaloo bois have it wrong if they think a few shots will solve this. We aren't talking the French Revolution where we just execute the heads of state, and even if we were, France had TEN different ruling eras between 1789 and 1914 after the dissolution of the French monarchy following the Revolution of 1789. In effect, ten revolutions in 125 years. Is that what you want? Is that really what you want?

If not - get out there and redouble the efforts to find a peaceful solution for this problem. Put the thoughts of a civil war out of your mind and focus on peaceful solutions until ALL the other options are exhausted.

[Savage Hands]

RR, I do not want it to happen. Yes I know it’s serious and like I said above, “we all lose.”
In Virginia it’s peaceful protest and disobedience but it’s evolving past that as we speak.
I’m on the other side of the country with our own personal constitutional fight that we live and breathe daily.
I’ve said it for awhile that if the rest of the country stood up and helped us fight here in California it would limit the ability to spread. Instead the typical remarks were to the affect of, “It will never happen here” and “You got what you voted for” (I guess that’s why we had Obama twice?).

From the looks of the VCDL, they are showing resistance with numbers we’ve never achieved here in California and with much more organization.
From their FB post:

“IMPORTANT REQUEST: We need 10,000 patriots to fill the Capitol grounds for Monday's rally!

Unfortunately, the Virginia Supreme Court just said they did not have enough information on the stay denied by the lower court to issue their own stay, so the Governor's illegal gun-ban on Capitol grounds is going to stand for this event.

Here is what we need to do on Monday to make the rally a success:

DETAILS:
VCDL needs at least 10,000 members/gun owners to commit to "taking one for the team'" by entering the Capitol grounds unarmed around 10 am and being in place for the rally by 10:45 am. Those who were lobbying will already be unarmed, so we urge them to be part of the 10,000 inside the fencing. NOTE: knives with folding metal blades less than 3-inches long are ARE permitted both in the General Assembly AND on the Capitol grounds.
For every one gun owner on the Capitol grounds, we need another two to five people outside the Capitol grounds's fence on 9th Street. Those doing so can be legally armed.
If you can commit to being one of our needed 10,000 unarmed members inside the fence, please help us by asking several of your family and friends to be your designated armed escort to the gates and to stand outside the fenced area to watch over us.

WHY:

We are separating our responsibilities, in this otherwise untenable and unconstitutional situation foisted on gun owners by Northam. Gun owners standing, both inside and outside of the fence, ensure that the Capitol grounds and the surrounding area is filled to capacity to hear our speakers and it will make a great visual for the cameras!

For those who are going to be on the Capitol grounds, the less items you bring along, the quicker and more efficient the screening.

VCDL will have loudspeakers so that those outside the fence will be able to hear. The event will also be broadcast live on WRVA radio, 1140 AM /96.1 FM.

IMPORTANT:

We ask everyone to follow the temporary Capitol grounds rules. There is NO need for an act of civil disobedience to achieve standing for a court fight. We already have standing.

We still will have our day in court to fully debate the governor's unconstitutional overreach in just a few short weeks.

Thank you very much for your support and understanding. The Governor and his cronies would like nothing better than to see the Capitol grounds empty, with the speakers talking only to themselves. We simply cannot let that happen.

PLEASE CHOOSE ONE:

Arrive temporarily UNARMED and go INSIDE the fenced area on the Capitol grounds or
Stand with us, LEGALLY ARMED if you so choose, just OUTSIDE the fence and watch over your brothers and sisters inside the fence
Either way, we'll see you there!

FINAL NOTE:

Monday is going to be a day of lobbying, with a peaceful rally. All law-abiding citizens are invited. The Capitol, State, and Richmond police forces will be providing strong security. We thank them in advance for helping make sue that the event is a safe and fun event.

Thank you. PVC“

[Cypher]

I am not a constitutional scholar I don't know all that much about political science but I am absolutely positive that if America ever gets into an actual Civil War the rest of the world is not going to just stand by and let us figure things out on our own.

I don't care what anybody says they will be over here trying to pick the carcass clean first chance they get.

I also agree with Rob. First shot and you can kiss your Constitutional Republic good bye.

[STI]

Think hard about it, a civil war is a fractured union. A fractured union means the suspension of the Constitution

How do you not consider us a fractured union? How do you consider Northam’s gun ban a suspension of the constitution (there’s a 2012 law that makes it illegal)?

[Guerrero]

I think a good start would be to instruct the ATF to stop using the "sporting purposes" BS. Regulatory change only.

[M2CattleCo]

The republicans are stacking the courts with pro 2-A judges.

The democrats are knocking over states like fukin dominoes with AWBs and anything else they want.

The judges aren't doing a damn thing about it, and aren't gonna start. Ever.

We're cheering 'our side' on for winning, they're cheering 'their side' on for winning.

We're all fucked.

[YVK]

I'm waiting for Trump's legislative agenda to enhance and expand the instantiation of the 2nd Amend. as compared to saying he will 'defend' the 2nd Amend. The only action that he initiated was a ban.

His friendly Congress in the first two years did not try to pass gun rights enhancements with the vigor of tax cuts and attacking Obama care. Even faced with a filibuster, the bills could have been brought up repeatedly or have some of the milder ones attached to necessary measures. Recall the HPA vanished. Cornyn's reciprocity (granted that is controversial) was proclaimed! He sent me messages about it. Where did it go?

Yes, the Democrats will take the guns away. When will the wonder twins in SCOTUS get that august body of its butt to take a case that truly and unambiguously voids the state bans? Years go by and scrumptious scrutiny of modern spurting rifles goes nowhere.

Let's see the enhancement agenda in the next state of the union that proposes more than 'defending'.

I lost you on the first sentence. Are you seriously thinking / hoping that this administration will expand 2A anything, or is this purely rhetorical?

[Hambo]

Otherwise, what I want is very simple - to be left the fuck alone.

The best government we can hope to have is one that does nothing.

[Darth_Uno]

The best government we can hope to have is one that does nothing.

When Trump got elected I said, and probably posted here, that we get a 4 year break. I didn’t expect any bonuses, but at least no bans were likely. And I’ve been right except for bump stocks...but I just can’t muster up the outrage for those.

Unfortunately, plenty of people feel the same way about entire weapons. “That sucks, but I didn’t want one anyway.”

[CWM11B]

Judges cant do anything until a case or petition is brought before them. The lawsuits need to be filed along with requests for stays.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Sadly, rhetorical - the RKBA is simply fund raising gimmick to most politicians. I just despair over those who think else wise and that something will be done. I do like to point out hypocrisy among all politician. My favorite on the Democratic side is Schumer who is supposed to represent NY and lives in fancy pants Brooklyn. Want to represent NYS - live in Utica.

[blues]

Sadly, rhetorical - the RKBA is simply fund raising gimmick to most politicians. I just despair over those who think else wise and that something will be done. I do like to point out hypocrisy among all politician. My favorite on the Democratic side is Schumer who is supposed to represent NY and lives in fancy pants Brooklyn. Want to represent NYS - live in Utica.

Smack dab in the middle of the state? That would require he be a centrist. ;)

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Haha - LOL. I believe that one only has to look at the way he wears those douche bag glasses to have a handle on his worth as a human being. He's been a tool of Wall Street for years but talks the talk of the 'people'.

[blues]

Haha - LOL. I believe that one only has to look at the way he wears those douche bag glasses to have a handle on his worth as a human being. He's been a tool of Wall Street for years but talks the talk of the 'people'.

They're all douche nozzles, every last one of 'em in my opinion. They've forgotten that they're supposed to serve the interests of the electorate, not their pocketbooks.

But that's old news and I don't see that bus backing up and pulling a u-turn anytime soon.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

They're all douche nozzles, every last one of 'em in my opinion. They've forgotten that they're supposed to serve the interests of the electorate, not their pocketbooks.

That should be tattooed on the foreheads of all true believers so they can see it every morning first thing.

[Borderland]

deleted...

[Borderland]

Civil War?

Let me repeat that - Civil War?

Stop reading the boogaloo shit.

Go outside and breath some fresh air and turn off the talk radio.

___

[QUOTE]More than half our population is obese and/or has diabetes and heart disease. Our kids can barely fucking read. 80% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck and you think there is a fucking civil war imminent? People are working to survive they don't give a shit about your guns most Americans don't give a shit about Planned Parenthood and abortion. These are talking points for ultra wealthy elite who control our society and government to get wealthier through war and fear mongering. The fucking elite have no interest in a Civil War, it doesn't make them money. [QUOTE]

I'll have to go with this.

If anyone is interested in our history it might be a good idea to study why we had a civil war in this country. Most people believe it was about slavery primarily but that was just part of it. Slavery and its moral abomination was the biggest reason for the north to go to war but they weren't the ones who seceded from the union. For the south it was their economy and that was based on slavery. So in effect the north was about to destroy the economy of the southern states if slavery were abolished. The north's economy was based on industry, not cotton and slavery, so no big deal for them.

So this talk of a civil war is something I can't wrap my head around. VA's economy has not been threatened by the increased state restrictions on the RKBA. It's nothing like losing everything you own and not being able to feed your family. Now that right there is oppressive. It's been pointed out here that the economy in VA is doing pretty well and it's based on state and federal jobs, not tobacco and cotton farmers. Now if it were based on tobacco and cotton farms and the state said we're going to ban tractors I could see a yuge problem there. But as it sets it isn't that big of a problem for most who live there and work for the state and fed.

I'm not in favor of anymore firearms restrictions. I communicate with my reps and vote accordingly. I belong to the NRA and support the SAF. I also support the rally in VA. It sends a very special message to legislators that not everyone is in agreement with what they're doing and they need to be careful when they vote on these bills. That's the way it should be. All politics is local. This would never happen in Iowa. It isn't a federal issue. I don't think you will ever see mag restrictions or another AWB coming from the fed.

As more of an example of how things get f'd up based on a states economy all you have to do is look at CA. They have a lot of firearms restrictions there but you'll notice that they have the California Values Act which basically protects their ag industry from ICE. A modern version of a secession dealing with the economy of the state. They aren't going to comply with federal immigration laws because it's their economy that's being hammered. Number 1 ag producer in the US.

[blues]

Thoughts on what Trump should do for the 2A...

Pay more than lip service in a tweet which is simply politically motivated. It'd be nice if there were some substance to his support beyond pandering for votes.

[Tom Duffy]

I remember that after Trump got elected the general expectation was that Reciprocity was a done deal. It didn't happen and it didn't come close to happening. Trump's White House was a disorganized mess in terms of transition and Trump was, and still is, willing to let Congress set the legislative agenda. He never put any skin in the game. According to him, it was the senate's fault that Obamacare wasn't repealed, not his. When the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and there was a Republican president, Reciprocity would have been a slam dunk. Trump didn't give a shit and more importantly McConnell didn't either.

[Savage Hands]

So now I'm reading conflicting stories about this being true or not and why I may have thought it's worse than it is in VA:
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/474556-virginia-national-guard-responds-after-dem-lawmaker-suggests-it-may-be
Virginia National Guard responds after Democratic lawmaker suggests it may be needed to enforce gun control measures

Did Northam indicate he was going to use the state's National Guard to enforce confiscation?

[Borderland]

Thoughts on what Trump should do for the 2A...

Pay more than lip service in a tweet which is simply politically motivated. It'd be nice if there were some substance to his support beyond pandering for votes.


Trump is a nationalist. That means if he can get more support from the AG crowd to get reelected that will be his choice. I expect he won't get involved in anything AG this year other than maybe a vague tweet or two. Tweeting that the constitution is under attack and condemning democrats is a pretty safe bet. My guess is a lot of people in VA won't be voting for Trump this year mostly because of his connection to the NRA and WLP. That 20 million didn't buy NRA members much. I should have just bought ammo instead.

[Borderland]

I remember that after Trump got elected the general expectation was that Reciprocity was a done deal. It didn't happen and it didn't come close to happening. Trump's White House was a disorganized mess in terms of transition and Trump was, and still is, willing to let Congress set the legislative agenda. He never put any skin in the game. According to him, it was the senate's fault that Obamacare wasn't repealed, not his. When the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and there was a Republican president, Reciprocity would have been a slam dunk. Trump didn't give a shit and more importantly McConnell didn't either.

Trump campaigned on reciprocity. After he was elected I never heard another word out of his mouth about it. I think the reason was the GOP leadership told him to drop it. I noticed he still hammers the immigration thing in his rallies but you would probably have to explain to him again what reciprocity means. Now that the NRA is defunct and no more money coming from them it's a dry well. Time to hit up the Brady Campaign for some cash.

[Wise_A]

I'm shocked that anyone thought nationwide concealed-carry reciprocity had even the slightest chance of happening, much less a "done deal". When the Trumpster said that, I just figured he was saying some shit without realizing how un-fucking-possible it would be.

[Baldanders]

[QUOTE=RevolverRob;982909]Civil War?

Let me repeat that - Civil War?

Stop reading the boogaloo shit.

Go outside and breath some fresh air and turn off the talk radio.

___

[QUOTE]

I'll have to go with this.

If anyone is interested in our history it might be a good idea to study why we had a civil war in this country. Most people believe it was about slavery primarily but that was just part of it. Slavery and its moral abomination was the biggest reason for the north to go to war but they weren't the ones who seceded from the union. For the south it was their economy and that was based on slavery. So in effect the north was about to destroy the economy of the southern states if slavery were abolished. The north's economy was based on industry, not cotton and slavery, so no big deal for them.

So this talk of a civil war is something I can't wrap my head around. VA's economy has not been threatened by the increased state restrictions on the RKBA. It's nothing like losing everything you own and not being able to feed your family. Now that right there is oppressive. It's been pointed out here that the economy in VA is doing pretty well and it's based on state and federal jobs, not tobacco and cotton farmers. Now if it were based on tobacco and cotton farms and the state said we're going to ban tractors I could see a yuge problem there. But as it sets it isn't that big of a problem for most who live there and work for the state and fed.

I'm not in favor of anymore firearms restrictions. I communicate with my reps and vote accordingly. I belong to the NRA and support the SAF. I also support the rally in VA. It sends a very special message to legislators that not everyone is in agreement with what they're doing and they need to be careful when they vote on these bills. That's the way it should be. All politics is local. This would never happen in Iowa. It isn't a federal issue. I don't think you will ever see mag restrictions or another AWB coming from the fed.

As more of an example of how things get f'd up based on a states economy all you have to do is look at CA. They have a lot of firearms restrictions there but you'll notice that they have the California Values Act which basically protects their ag industry from ICE. A modern version of a secession dealing with the economy of the state. They aren't going to comply with federal immigration laws because it's their economy that's being hammered. Number 1 ag producer in the US.

Wow , didn't know about the California Values Act. It fits into my thinking as another example of why we AREN'T headed to another civil war. Instead, we seem to be headed towards states being able to ignore federal law to a large degree. Marijuana laws and sanctuary cities being the harbingers. It is possible we may be able to tolerate a lot more differences in state laws than once was thought workable, as long as it doesn't inhibit business too much.


We really do have a poor conception of what the Civil War was about, but an even poorer conception of Reconstruction and it's aftermath.

I would say the Civil War was less about the North trying to crush the South's economy, and more aboout making sure a Northern-style economy was the model in the new states-to-be, not a slave-based plantation model. That may be spiltting semantic hairs, but I think it is more accurate. Homesteaders from up north had no urge to live in a system like the southern states had. And considering how slavery tended to crush smaller farmers, it's easy to see why.

Does anyone really see a Fort Sumter happening again in the near future?

[Savage Hands]

So the reason I brought up a Civil War was due to articles like this below which is extremely serious and is why VA has 10's of thousands of protestors in the streets today. And while MSM is claiming Northam did not say he'd use the VA National Guard, the VA National Guard thought a response was necessary.

https://wset.com/news/at-the-capitol/va-rep-suggests-military-enforcement-for-new-gun-legislation-national-guard-responds
Va. rep. suggests military enforcement for new gun legislation, National Guard responds
https://twitter.com/VaNationalGuard/status/1205500257620152320
"We understand and respect the passion people feel for the U.S. Constitution and 2nd Amendment rights. We will not speculate about the possible use of the Virginia National Guard."




So now I'm reading conflicting stories about this being true or not and why I may have thought it's worse than it is in VA:
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/474556-virginia-national-guard-responds-after-dem-lawmaker-suggests-it-may-be
Virginia National Guard responds after Democratic lawmaker suggests it may be needed to enforce gun control measures

Did Northam indicate he was going to use the state's National Guard to enforce confiscation?

[Bart Carter]

I remember that after Trump got elected the general expectation was that Reciprocity was a done deal. It didn't happen and it didn't come close to happening. Trump's White House was a disorganized mess in terms of transition and Trump was, and still is, willing to let Congress set the legislative agenda. He never put any skin in the game. According to him, it was the senate's fault that Obamacare wasn't repealed, not his. When the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and there was a Republican president, Reciprocity would have been a slam dunk. Trump didn't give a shit and more importantly McConnell didn't either.

You have to remember, there were (and are) a Republicans that don't like Trump. For instance, can you spell Romney? :mad:

[Borderland]

You have to remember, there were (and are) a Republicans that don't like Trump. For instance, can you spell Romney? :mad:

I voted for Romney. Wasn't he a Harvard grad, the governor of Massachusetts and now a US senator (R) from Utah? How's he going to vote in the impeachment proceedings?

I'm just pulling your chain here. It's all a made for MSM sham anyway. Trump will be the first impeached president in history to be reelected. History in the making as they say. I'll roll with it :D

[Glenn E. Meyer]

So if Trump isn't thrown out and is re-elected, will he speak something beyond the cliches or will he promote a legislative agenda (and tell Mitch to get on board with gusto), use the bully pulpit, techniques such as suggesting that states that do not support the Second Amend. will have aid and pork barrel legislation blocked?

I would suggest folks write their GOP legislators demanding that they drop the worship mode (Sen. Graham, are you listening?) and put his feet to the fire. I would suggest that the NRA (even the shrunken leadership) cut the crap of saying that their first priority is his re-election but is the enhancement of the RKBA situation. Say that support will flow to the legislators state and local but he can twist in the wind unless he steps up.

Strong legislators can protect against further laws as well as a President. In fact, Mitch should have had a Senatorial resolution opposing the Dump the Bump fiasco as on general principle. Yes, it is a stupid device.

I know the answer, so it is a rhetorical comment and suggestion set from a cranky old man on a snowy day. I don't give a crap about a cognitive dissonance laden debate about the Civil War. It's about as useful as someone pooping in their pants because I was mildly interested in USPSA competitors' view of carry guns (snark).

[Duces Tecum]

What Trump should do? Continue with his SCOTUS nominations, as reflected in Kavanaugh and Gorsuch. Prior to these seatings there had been no SCOTUS support for the 2A since "Heller" (2008) despite copious opportunities.

The Court has now heard NYSR&PA v City of New York, a case involving both the bearing of arms outside the home and interstate commerce in firearms. Subsequently, six cert petitions regarding the bearing of arms outside the home were heard and placed on hold:
Rogers v. Grewal
Gould v. Lipson
Cheeseman v. Polillo
Young v. Hawaii
Malpasso v. Pallozzi
Ciolek v. New Jersey

Additionally, three petitions relevant to commerce in firearms were held:
Worman v. Healey
Pena v. Cit
Mance v. Barr

With now 9 petitions pending resolution based on the result of NYSR&PA, it appears that at the end of this term (June, 2020) the Court is likely to release an omnibus decision regarding "bear" which includes the pluperfect element of "commerce".

For those further interested, go to https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/18-663.html and click on "Case Documents" then "Docket Search". In the "search for" box, type in the case of interest (ex: Rogers v Grewal). Under "search results", click on the blue "docket number". This will take you the Petitions and Orders section. Scan down the list and click on the blue "Petition" link. Two or three pages in (depending on the Petition) you will find "Questions Presented". That is what the petition is asking the Court to decide.

There is some variation in the dockets depending on this and that, but the above is a robust model.