From the Detonics Combat Master to Now: All things 1911 Subcompact-ish...

[RAM Engineer]

Disclaimer: I've owned exactly ONE 1911 compact style gun: A Colt 1991 Officer's Model years ago. However, my 80's nostalgia has me interested in picking up a vintage Detonics Combat Master.

1. Anyone here have any experience with this specific gun?
2. What about this general class of guns? (1911 compacts & subcompacts)
3. Who makes the best (or least-bad) tiny 1911s these days?

[Evil_Ed]

I had a couple; mags are difficult to find these days. Detonics really broke the code for making a short 1911 reliable, within it's very small operating envelope. I had both a MkVII (which was really neat but I wound up moving it because...well...you couldn't really aim it...) and a latest incarnation of the standard Combat Master from Pendegrass, GA. The Pendegrass one I had was %100 reliable with everything I tried to feed it...so long as the mag springs were fresh. My example was an early one; later ones from when Detonics was on the down slope of that operation were a lot more haphazard; they could be made to run, but they might not out of the box. No so dissimilar from Colt :D

The 3 spring recoil spring assemblies are pretty good but have a short life, less than 2k rounds (and honestly less than that, optimally). Magazine springs are measured more in time than rounds; maybe 2 months tops, if you leave a mag loaded.

When the springs are in fresh condition, it's inside it's operating envelope, and in my experience they run great. Mine really didn't have punishing recoil shooting standard 230gr loads, either; it wasn't a handful as compared to say an alloy framed Officer model. Those felt a little more jumpy to me than the all steel Detonics.

I'm not an expert in them even though I've owned a couple, but if I had a chance to get another one I probably would; first things I'd do is replace all the mag springs and recoil spring assembly (or rebuilt it with springs from Wolff), run a couple hundred rounds through it, replace the mag springs again, and put it aside for when I need something more concealable than a G19. I really kind of do miss mine..


Edited to add - short 1911s in general are super sensitive to mag springs, so always keep on top of them. Alloy guns are great to carry but can be pretty punishing, especially if you get into +P loads. Detonics was all steel, so while it was a boat anchor, it also shot like a boat anchor...not bad at all. Again, because it was so small, the slide operated so fast...timing and springs, timing and springs. I'm not sure I'd venture into too many other aftermarket micro 1911s these days, except maybe Colts. Colt got into the micro game because Detonics basically cracked that market open, and Colt said "Waaaiiit.....we could do that..." and presto, the Officer's ACP was born. Better late than never. (At least, that's my understanding). I had a micro Kimber in the mid-2000s and it was actually reliable for the 500+ rounds I put through it, but oh lord was it punishing to shoot. I would probably aim for an all steel micro if I had to have one today just so if I ever needed to use it, my overriding thought wouldn't be "Oh boy, this is going to suck" before pulling the trigger.

[farscott]

To answer the last question first, Colt makes the best affordable Officer's ACP frame, the Defender. The three-inch barrel does not use a bushing, Colt has figured out the recoil spring system, and the magazine is long enough to not entirely "over-stress" magazine springs. The Wilson Combat Sentinel is pretty good if you are willing to pay almost 3x the price of the Colt. It also is about a 0.5" shorter (magazine is shorter).

If you do opt for the vintage Combat Master, I would not suggest carrying it. As noted, the magazine springs will collapse, the sight radius is short, and it is not an easy gun to shoot accurately or at speed. I would suggest one of the newer Pendergrass, GA guns, and I can vouch for this seller: https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/pistols/detonics-pistols/detonics-combat-master-45acp-stainless-steel-with-all.cfm?gun_id=101365889

[Gary1911A1]

You can still get recoil and magazine springs here: https://www.gunsprings.com/DETONICS/cID1/mID17/dID98
I like mine although as it is a little heavy for conceal carry.

[rogueSF]

Actually as a kid the Detonics Combat Master was the first pistol I ever shot. My dad got one way back when as an ankle gun and still has it to this day. He always describes it as having a “diamond blasted” finish but I’m pretty sure after my research it’s a Mk V with the brushed stainless finish. It’s like the rough stainless, not too shiny. Sexy as hell and to this day my favorite pistol to shoot. Being a police guy he also had a .40 P226 and a Glock 9mm. When I was young the I couldn’t help but limp wrist the sig leading to jams and the I just never liked glocks...but that Detonics spoke to me. It’s just like a Swiss watch. Beautiful, rare, never jammed and felt like it had the right power to get the job done despite its size. I’ve tried to get him to sell it to me like 3 times now but he still loves it too much and only let’s me borrow it :) someday though. Hope to pass that one on and keep it in the fam. The thing is built like a tank, I don’t see it crapping out anytime soon! It hasn’t had any general maintenance in maybe 20-30 years but since I’ve grown up and gone out to the world I think It’s made only 1-2 trips to the range but no issues. If you see one I highly recommend picking one up! Well, a Mk V at least, I can’t speak for the other models. Any thoughts on general upkeep for this pistol though? Should I replace a recoil spring just because it’s old or should I wait for issues until I worry about it?

[JTMcC]

I have no Detonics experience but have carried a 3 1/2" Colt for many years and would never wait for issues.
I consider springs (in short 1911's) a consumable and replace them well before they sack out.
Kept lubed and with good springs my 1991 based gun has run like a clock despite cycling in much less time than Mr Browning intended.

[vcdgrips]

Never my cup of tea. My original shooting mentors could keep them running when they did the following. Note-info was from the 1991 to 2011 time frame:
1. Started out with a quality gun-usually an old Colt

2. Insured it had proper extractor tension and basic dimensions

3. Figured out what kind of mags it liked, usually Wilson's or CMC

4. Figured out a practice load and a carry load it liked (practice was 5.0-5.2 of 231 with a 230 RNL Bullet, carry was usually something by Remington as they tended to have a more FMJ profile.

5. Recoil Spring got changed religiously at 500 rounds or when it was visually shorter than a new one, which ever happened first.

6. Clean and well lubed.

To me as a youngster, it seemed more art than science to keep such a pistol up and running so I never went down the 1911 road past all steel, 5 inch 1911s.

[45dotACP]

I'd stay away from a shorty 1911 for all the reasons above.

But if I were to consider carrying one, it'd be a 9mm.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Navin Johnson]

There is a fella at a local gun store who carries a Combat Master to work every day....he helped design it.

Imagine he could steer people to parts etc.

Ben's Loan Renton Wa.

[TC215]

The only small 1911 other than a Wilson I would go with is the Dan Wesson ECO. It’s a 3.5”, not a 3”.

https://i.imgur.com/3nKJ6Mw.jpg

[B0308]

I had an original stainless Detonic's Combat Master, probably bought 1980'ish for $470, pretty big money for those years and on an active duty pay rate. I got a good one, never any feed problems, came with a manual, gun rug, an a small plastic tube of lube. Ended up with a Milt Sparks Summer Special and magazine pouch.

Gun had a minimal amount of firing, some amount of carrying. Finally just put it away, no issues, just realized it was worth more in prime shape than carrying. Sold it in Augist 2015 for $900, with all the original kit, including the unused tube of lube. :cool:

Probably 1984-86, also had a Colt Officers Model, good shooter, no issues. But at a time in my career and living in SoCal, a full sized 1911 Colt was a better choice. Sold it to a SNCO in our unit (huge dude, it must have looked like a PPK in his mitts).

Later, when the Glock 30 came out, it filled a niche for a smaller .45. Have a couple, well used, both with Robar grip reductions and Sparks leather. A pair of .45 Shields, with thumb safety, mostly in JM AIWB.

So I see a role for compact .45s. If you get a vintage Detonic, PM me the SN, might have been mine!

[claymore504]

I have owned two. The first was a Springfield Armory Ultra Comapct V10 Stainless 45. I really liked it and never had an issue with it. I traded it off years ago and wish I had not. Then years down the road I got an STI Escort 45 and it was a great gun as well. Wish I would have kept that one as well. I never had a malfunction due to the gun, but that last range trip I took it on I had some weird ammo related problem. It was a 100 round box of Winchester white box 45 FMJ. About 20 rounds out of that box malfunctioned. When the round would fire it felt like a 22 firing. The round came out of the barrel so slow I could watch it travel to the target. it was odd for sure.

[BN]

John Thomas Rourke carried twin stainless Detonics in Alessi shoulder holsters. ;)

Didn't Jerry Ahern own Detonics at one time?

I was cheap and got a Star PD which was always reliable.

[Rex G]

Disclaimer: I've owned exactly ONE 1911 compact style gun: A Colt 1991 Officer's Model years ago. However, my 80's nostalgia has me interested in picking up a vintage Detonics Combat Master.

1. Anyone here have any experience with this specific gun?
2. What about this general class of guns? (1911 compacts & subcompacts)
3. Who makes the best (or least-bad) tiny 1911s these days?

1. I did, long ago; purchased in late 1982 or early 1983. It fed JHPs reliably, but not FMJ. Accuracy was quite good. I never considered it trustworthy enough to carry, reliability has not improved, by the 500-round mark for good-quality FMJ. I reckon it was “cool,” but as shooting it was expensive and frustrating, it became a paperweight, until I traded it, by 1986 or 1987.

2. I swore off any 1911 smaller than full-sized, 5” Government pistols, about twenty years ago. This was after trying the above-mentioned Combat Master, a Detonics Mark VII, an ODI Viking, several Colt Commanders, an Officers ACP, and a Wilson Combat Sentinel.

3. I have aged-out of shooting guns with short grip frames*, so have not been keeping-up with that market, and, so, cannot answer. As far as I know, Hilton Yam is still recommending one stay with full-sized 1911 pistols.

I deal with my Eighties nostalgia by occasionally buying older S&W and Ruger revolvers. I did recently buy a third Detonics, but full-sized, the one commemorating 9-11-01, made during the Georgia-based era.

If a compact Detonics pistol is to be used a shooter, make sure that recoil springs will continue to be available. The recommended replacement intervals are quite short, and those springs were not the same as in other compact pistols. Even for my full-sized Detonics 9-11-01, I made sure that it could accept standard Government springs. The parent model of the 9-11-01, and the 9-11-01, itself, may be the only Detonics pistols that can readily use standard 1911 springs, as Detonics liked to use proprietary parts in the spring assemblies.

I am no expert on Detonics, but did some amount of “homework,” when I entered my nostalgia-buying phase.

*If the “heel” of a pistol’s grip frame does not make firm contact with the “heel bone” of my right hand, it is bad news for my aging, aching right wrist. Shooting lefty helps, and I am truly blessed to be functionally ambidextrous with most handguns, but I want my stronger left hand to be able to run the slide, so I continue to carry autos on the right side.

[Glock17JHP]

Just inherited one. Will have it soon.

[RAM Engineer]

Just inherited one. Will have it soon.

While my enthusiasm for owning one of these has faded, I'm super interested in hearing your thoughts once you've had some time with it.

[Glock17JHP]

I don't have it in my hands yet but it is stainless w/Pachmayer wrap-around rubber grip. Pretty sure it is a Mark V.

[RevolverRob]

Supposedly, Metalform may still make magazines - they made the magazines for the Arizona and Georgia built guns. A call to them may reveal if their 6-round mags are Detonics sized or not.

Triple K also makes Detonics magazines and has them listed. Undoubtedly the springs and followers are trash but what you really want is the flush-fitting magazine body. Fill it with a Wolff mag spring and a good Metalform follower (for an Officer's Model) and see if it runs.

[Glock17JHP]

I will check the springs when I get it. If I feel a need to replace, I will probably only replace the springs. I am hoping there are 2 or 3 mags, and all the other misc items.

[MattyD380]

No experience with the Detonics, specifically.

But I’ve always loved the idea of the “snubby” 1911–I came close to buying a Colt Defender on several occasions. But the reputation for finicky-ness (whether earned or not) always held me back. The S&W Pro Series 3 inch—with the scandium frame—is another one that’s oft been on my radar. Unlike the Defender, the S&W Pro uses a single flat-wire recoil spring. Not sure if that’s good, bad or indifferent? It also uses an external extractor.

The Sig P245 has always kinda filled the “compact cannon” niche for me. But if I found compelling evidence to suggest a Defender or a Pro Series was proven, dependable and… awesome… I could make room.

[FNFAN]

I have had three Combat Masters, 2 blue and 1 SS. Agree with those who suggest the recoil spring needs care at about the 500 round mark. Also the mags are more sensitive to any debris and the mag springs need to be top notch in order to keep serving rounds on these fast cycling guns. All 3 of mine were reliable, one needed the feed ramp polished in order to feed the 'Flying Ashtray' jhp's popular back then. I never felt I had the right holster dialed in and found carrying a lightweight Commander more comfortable. All three were very accurate little guns!

[JSGlock34]

The Detonics Combat Master does get some 80s style points.

https://www.imfdb.org/images/3/38/MV-DETCOM-2.jpg

Not sure it'd be a great ankle gun though...

https://www.imfdb.org/images/c/c5/MV-DETCOM-1.jpg

The new Staccato CS has similar vibes in a modern package.

https://staccato2011.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/CS800x800__82829.1667585852.1280.1280.jpg

[JAD]

I don’t have direct experience with <4” guns; a buddy has a well aged defender that works great, another a C&S Adventurer that… works.

I find the Dan Wesson CCO to be the best balance of shootability and AIWB comfort of any pistol ever. Carried it all day today, shot multiple classes with it, just bought a duplicate to put a dot on.

[1911Nut]

I have a Colt Series 80 Officer’s ACP pistol. It was built by Wardell Precision in Phoenix, who at that time was listed as one of "American Handgunner" magazine's "Top 100 Pistolsmiths". It has a match barrel, custom checkering, custom trigger, titanium firing pin, custom Woolf springs, custom extractor and ejector, Gunsite stocks, and Trijicon night sights (which are almost burned out now).

I actually had good luck regarding functionality with this pistol as long as I stayed with 230 grain round nose hard cast or jacketed bullets. Haven't shot it in a few years, as it was too heavy for an EDC. But when I purchased it, there was far, far fewer EDC gun options.

Coincidentally, I purchased this pistol in Phoenix about a year or so following the purchase of a Government Model 1911 built by Tom Kilhofer of TK Customs. I had the OACP pistol for a few months before I discovered that it had an identical serial number as the GM, differing only in that one pistol has an "SS" prefix and the other a "SF" prefix in their otherwise identical serial numbers.

[Evil_Ed]

Supposedly, Metalform may still make magazines - they made the magazines for the Arizona and Georgia built guns. A call to them may reveal if their 6-round mags are Detonics sized or not.

Triple K also makes Detonics magazines and has them listed. Undoubtedly the springs and followers are trash but what you really want is the flush-fitting magazine body. Fill it with a Wolff mag spring and a good Metalform follower (for an Officer's Model) and see if it runs.

I have zero doubts that the springs, followers AND mag body from the Triple-K mag are trash..I've never gotten a mag from them that was in spec in just about any dimension. Annoyingly they're not exactly cheap enough to do a whole lot of testing with, either.

Wilson sells their "Sentinel" magazines which are allllllmost the correct size...slight tiny gap, but it fits way better than an Officer's size mag.

I bought a few of the Metalforms back when the last run of guns happened in Pendegrass GA - I haven't seen them since. Their primary difference from the factory mags, were that on the Metalforms the baseplate was flush with the rear of the mag and the follower did not stick out of the bottom. The "factory" mags (also clearly made by Metalform), the baseplates were not flush with the rear, and a fully loaded mag had a little stub of it's follower sticking out of the bottom. If Metalform is still making them, then they're not listing or advertising them...I've been looking for more for a decade+ now. Not to say that they don't - they might be able to spin up a batch for a bulk purchase, which could explain why there's none out there - would you want to be on the hook for a large quantity (figure minimum of a thousand) of Detonics magazines...which if you're lucky you might sell in a decade? Oof :)

102817

[SAWBONES]

I find the Dan Wesson CCO to be the best balance of shootability and AIWB comfort of any pistol ever.

I have had similar experience with a Colt CCO; maybe not the best possible option, but certainly one of the best in .45ACP, and I carried mine daily for years.

[fatdog]

personal datapoints

-Late 80's, bought the Colt Officer, 45 ACP never got it to run, two different gunsmiths could not cure it
-Colt Defender, 45 ACP after about 500 rounds it was running fine, but I got to believing the short barrel did not make most JHP's work as intended and dumped it
-Dan Wesson CCO, 45 ACP ran flawlessly, just not my thing, sold it to a friend
-Dan Wesson ECO 9mm, ran flawlessly as well, sold it, just seemed too heavy, bulky, sharp edges when loaded for 8+1 compared to the other options

The Dan Wesson CCO really liked Nighthawk branded magazines which were really 7 round ACT magazines, those worked just fine, but I had problems with the 7 round 45 ACP Wilson mags in that gun. Factory mags ran fine.

I was always tempted by the Detonics, but never talked to anybody I met who had one who claimed it ran and they trusted it.

[Evil_Ed]

personal datapoints

-Late 80's, bought the Colt Officer, 45 ACP never got it to run, two different gunsmiths could not cure it
-Colt Defender, 45 ACP after about 500 rounds it was running fine, but I got to believing the short barrel did not make most JHP's work as intended and dumped it
-Dan Wesson CCO, 45 ACP ran flawlessly, just not my thing, sold it to a friend
-Dan Wesson ECO 9mm, ran flawlessly as well, sold it, just seemed too heavy, bulky, sharp edges when loaded for 8+1 compared to the other options

The Dan Wesson CCO really liked Nighthawk branded magazines which were really 7 round ACT magazines, those worked just fine, but I had problems with the 7 round 45 ACP Wilson mags in that gun. Factory mags ran fine.

I was always tempted by the Detonics, but never talked to anybody I met who had one who claimed it ran and they trusted it.

Sample size of one, but the two Detonics I had and bought to the range (the stainless one above, and a MkVII which I moved on) - both of those would run, feed, extract, and eject just fine - so long as the mag springs were up to speed. I haven't had that blued one to the range yet, even though I've been sitting on it for the last year or so :o

The stainless one above I used for a carry piece for a long time - the only real maintenance I needed to perform was swapping out mag springs in carry mags every 3-6 months. The Wolff springs would take a set after a while and just not feed the rounds fast enough for the slide's cycle speed; that was really it's biggest hangup, for me.

Again, sample size of 1...if you find a used one, especially with the 3 spring setup, the recoil springs are probably fine - they should last the life of the gun. Swap out the mag springs first thing for all the mags you have, and give it a shot. Can't speak for the 2 spring setup that came about after the original Detonics was sold and moved to AZ..

Edit to add - the stainless one above - ran both ball and 230gr ball-shaped JHPs (like Golden Sabre) - I haven't tried HST through it...I should do that some time. The MkVII I only ran ball through it.

[RevolverRob]

Because I am a Spherical Cow Slaughterer:

102822

[Glock17JHP]

Seattle made, 1 mag w/weak spring (mag was loaded for extended period). Sent for 3 Wolff mag springs. Recoil spring still very strong ! ! !