Federal "Punch" Ammo

[Tokarev]

More new stuff from Federal. I assume the 16gr 40 load is a typo. Guessing that should be 165gr.


Federal’s New Punch Personal Defense Ammo Delivers a Knockout
ANOKA, Minnesota – January 16, 2020

– Federal Ammunition has been a leading producer of law enforcement ammunition for more than thirty years. Drawing on that knowledge, the company recently set out to design a new self-defense load that would provide excellent overall performance from popular carry guns. The result of this effort is one of the most exciting new line of defensive loads to hit the market in years—Federal’s new Punch ammo.

Punch provides a great option for common self-defense scenario use—where performance through more complex duty barriers, like those in the FBI protocol test, are less likely to be a factor.

“Many personal defenders think, ‘If it works for law enforcement then it’s good for me.’ That is a great guideline and still our ultimate recommendation,” said Laack. “But that may add features not required for everyday carry for everyone.”

Federal saw a need for a reliable, accurate, terminally effective option that doesn’t have to be the top scoring product in duty ammunition test procedures.

“Concealed-carry permit holders, especially new shooters, need an uncomplicated answer to the question ‘What ammo do I need for self-defense’,” said Federal Handgun Ammunition Product Manager Chris Laack. “Things to consider such as function, reliable ignition, barrier performance, terminal performance, ballistics and other considerations are a lot to digest for most people. What some consumers really need to know is it will function in their gun, every time, and that it will be effective stopping a threat as quickly as possible. Punch is our easy answer for them.”

Most concealed carry permit holders are less concerned with factors such as barrier penetration through steel, plywood and auto glass and more concerned about choosing a bullet that is engineered from the ground-up to stop an attacker and work effectively in their chosen firearm. And, as the data shows, Punch bullets perform well in the tests that matter most to the average shooter—penetration and expansion through bare gel and heavy clothing. Federal has made Punch ammunition a natural choice for concealed carry.
What’s more, Punch ammunition features Federal’s smooth-feeding nickel-plated cases, advanced powders, and the sealed reliability of high-quality, sensitive primers. With Punch, self-defenders can be assured its components will do its job when it matters most.

The five new Punch options include a .380 Auto 85-grain offering with a muzzle velocity of 1,000 feet per second, a .38 Special +P 120-grain load at 1,070 fps, a 9mm 147-grain load at 1,150 fps, a .40 S&W 16-grain load at 1,130 fps, and a .45 Auto 230-grain load at 890 fps. What’s more, all these loads will be available immediately, and with MSRPs from $15.95 to $20.95 per box of 20.

Federal ammunition can be found at dealers nationwide or purchased online direct from Federal. For more information on all products from Federal or to shop online, visit www.federalpremium.com.




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[Redhat]

Be interesting to find out if this is truly something new or an older design renamed

[0ddl0t]

147 grains at 1,150 fps? Is this +P+???

[ccmdfd]

Are those prices significantly cheaper than HST's?
I haven't had to purchase any LE JHPs lately, I stocked up a couple of years ago and haven't been shooting much.

cc

[rd62]

Seems like an answer in search of a problem. Most of the shooters they are targeting this to don't shoot enough defensive ammo for any cost savings to be considerable but they would be buying ammo that seems to admittedly potentially be less capable. I don't get it.

[Tokarev]

I don't get it.

Throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks?


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[UNK]

9mm 124gn hst 20 count msrp $27.95
9mm 124gn punch 20 count msrp $15.95

[Shawn Dodson]

Federal's answer to Hornady Critical Defense...

[Sigfan26]

Maybe HST without the cannaleur.?


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[Sigfan26]

Seems like an answer in search of a problem. Most of the shooters they are targeting this to don't shoot enough defensive ammo for any cost savings to be considerable but they would be buying ammo that seems to admittedly potentially be less capable. I don't get it.

They do buy, initially, based on cost though. I can sell a box of critical defense to 75% of folks before a box of PDX1 because the Hornady has 5 more rounds. Doesn’t matter that I’ve explained all the benefits of an FBI approved round. They always buy the cheaper option.
Them: What’re the odds I’m gonna need to shoot through glass and metal?
Me: What are the odds you’re going to be in a gunfight in general? Why not prepare for the worst? We’re not talking about a huge price jump...
Them: I’ll take a box of Critical defense
Me: EXCELLENT CHOICE


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[Baldanders]

Taking advantage of the fact Wal-Mart ain't selling pistol ammunition so there's less bulk box Remington hollow points out there to compete with?

[M2CattleCo]

Glad to see Federal out there in the shit fighting for bottom rung on a ladder with a bunch of bottom rungs.

[spyderco monkey]

I wish federal would just make a 124gr '9BPLE' type load.

Just a well engineered, cup n core JHP, loaded to full SAAMI +P spec of 38,500psi (which is the pressure of the "+p+" 9BPLE.) Goal is an actual 1200-1225fps from a G19.

9BPLE is regularly $16/50, $300/1000. A 124gr version at the same prices would be most welcome.

RMR has been making such a bullet for around 1-2 years now. At 9.6 cents per JHP vs 8.2 cents per FMJ, its clear that major manufacturers can make reliable hollowpoints for barely more cost then fmj. There's really no reason why we shouldn't be seeing more $300/1000 JHP loads on the market, given that 9mm 124gr FMJ is $200/1000.

124gr RMR vs 124gr Gold dots, both loaded to the same velocity (1225fps) over 5.8gr BE86:
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p960x960/74896545_2536713993088506_9212981093626544128_o.jp g?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ohc=q8pR94JOiOIAX_gF58p&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&_nc_tp=1002&oh=7d2a7c55cb9cb9b32f6143acbe1d5588&oe=5E956971

As it stands, I don't see the appeal of a 'budget' 20rd box of JHP's that have a price of $0.75 per round :confused:

[fly out]

Street prices for 147 at targetsports are 16.99 for HST and 14.99* for Punch. I suppose some will shop on price? (Not me.)


*Admittedly, their initial offer price, though it's not yet available at that price. We'll see if it actually stocks at that price.

[Spartan1980]

Pics in this page look EXACTLY like HST to me. Cannelure included.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/01/01/new-federal-premium-punch-defensive-handgun-ammunition-line/

[UNK]

Maybe HST without the cannaleur.?


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https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/01/01/new-federal-premium-punch-defensive-handgun-ammunition-line/
47317
47318
47319

[JodyH]

Not bonded?
That would shave a few pennies per round and not really be a factor without barriers to go through first.

[JHC]

147 grains at 1,150 fps? Is this +P+???

Yeah that's like Buffalo Bore hot. Maybe it's a typo. Here that load is shown as 124 grain. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/01/01/new-federal-premium-punch-defensive-handgun-ammunition-line/

[Hambo]

They do buy, initially, based on cost though. I can sell a box of critical defense to 75% of folks before a box of PDX1 because the Hornady has 5 more rounds. Doesn’t matter that I’ve explained all the benefits of an FBI approved round. They always buy the cheaper option.
Them: What’re the odds I’m gonna need to shoot through glass and metal?
Me: What are the odds you’re going to be in a gunfight in general? Why not prepare for the worst? We’re not talking about a huge price jump...
Them: I’ll take a box of Critical defense
Me: EXCELLENT CHOICE



There you have it. My friend, Mr. Average CCW Holder, let me shoot his P365 a few weeks ago. He didn't want me to shoot his carry ammo, which as it turns out, was two rounds of Critical Defense on top of eight rounds of 115gr ball. He's the market they're looking at.

[GearFondler]

There you have it. My friend, Mr. Average CCW Holder, let me shoot his P365 a few weeks ago. He didn't want me to shoot his carry ammo, which as it turns out, was two rounds of Critical Defense on top of eight rounds of 115gr ball. He's the market they're looking at.Sigh...

Probably slow fired the other 23 rounds to "verify function" and felt good about it all.

[Hambo]

Sigh...

Probably slow fired the other 23 rounds to "verify function" and felt good about it all.

Definitely, but he fired the other 23 in three range sessions over five years, testing out each of three different micro-9 of the year pistols.

I have tried, and I have failed...

[spence]

They do buy, initially, based on cost though. I can sell a box of critical defense to 75% of folks before a box of PDX1 because the Hornady has 5 more rounds. Doesn’t matter that I’ve explained all the benefits of an FBI approved round. They always buy the cheaper option.
Them: What’re the odds I’m gonna need to shoot through glass and metal?
Me: What are the odds you’re going to be in a gunfight in general? Why not prepare for the worst? We’re not talking about a huge price jump...
Them: I’ll take a box of Critical defense
Me: EXCELLENT CHOICE


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I'll admit in some ways to being that guy. SG ran a pretty fair deal on Ranger bonded 147's around Christmas. I'm not a huge fan of 147's in 9mm, or necessarily bonded ammo. However, for the money, I figured that would tide me over on carry ammo for a few years.

What I really don't get is if it's more or less an HST, why not just sell the "LE" marked boxes to the general public and not be goofy about it? Problem in search of a solution, indeed.

[0ddl0t]

Pics in this page look EXACTLY like HST to me. Cannelure included.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/01/01/new-federal-premium-punch-defensive-handgun-ammunition-line/

They look very similar, but the HST's lead appears to maintain structured ribs while the Punch's lead just mushes. I suspect the HST's sharper edges cut more readily giving a bit more penetration...

https://www.federalpremium.com/dw/image/v2/BDBJ_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-vista-master-catalog/default/dw45fda4e7/images/large/FP_PPD_P40HST1S_40SWHST_Upset_A.jpg

https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47319&d=1579236321

[Spartan1980]

@Oddl0t That's interesting. Maybe HST has an alloyed (harder) lead core? The pricing is quite different, so it stands to reason that they've changed something.

[Danjojo]

Punch is HS Deep without the drag reducing center post.

[Velo Dog]

Punch is HS Deep without the drag reducing center post.
Would you please elaborate?
The jackets are significantly different between the Hydra-Shok Deep and Punch bullets.

[Chuck Whitlock]

It appears that the Punch line is intended to compete with....and compare to... the likes of Hornady's Critical Defense line rather than Critical Duty/Gold Dot/HST.

[HCM]

They do buy, initially, based on cost though. I can sell a box of critical defense to 75% of folks before a box of PDX1 because the Hornady has 5 more rounds. Doesn’t matter that I’ve explained all the benefits of an FBI approved round. They always buy the cheaper option.
Them: What’re the odds I’m gonna need to shoot through glass and metal?
Me: What are the odds you’re going to be in a gunfight in general? Why not prepare for the worst? We’re not talking about a huge price jump...
Them: I’ll take a box of Critical defense
Me: EXCELLENT CHOICE


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Critical Duty is an FBI Approved round. Critical defense is not. They are similar but not the same.

I’d still rather have Hornady over Winchester, if only due to prior bad experiences with Winchester QC.

I’m guessing Punch is a non bonded version of HST. While the non bonded may save a little on production costs I think the real key is that by rebranding it, they can sell it at a reduced price without devaluing their premium brands like HST and Gold Dot.

I think earlier posters hit the nail on the head - Punch is Federals answer to critical defense

[Velo Dog]

It appears that the Punch line is intended to compete with....and compare to... the likes of Hornady's Critical Defense line rather than Critical Duty/Gold Dot/HST.

I think you are correct.

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/Images/punch-ammo.jpg

[Sigfan26]

Critical Duty is an FBI Approved round. Critical defense is not. They are similar but not the same.

I’d still rather have Hornady over Winchester, if only due to prior bad experiences with Winchester QC.

I thunk and earlier poster hit the nail on the head - Punch is Federals answer to critical defense

I didn’t say they were the same (my point was that people will pick the cheap round that doesn’t meet FBI testing based on cost). I was comparing a round that passed FBI testing to one that hadn’t. I would take anything from Federal or CCI before either. Winchester and Hornady are about the same (quality wise) to me.


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[Sigfan26]

I’m guessing Punch is a non bonded version of HST. While the non bonded may save a little on production costs I think the real key is that by rebranding it, they can sell it at a reduced price without devaluing their premium brands like HST and Gold Dot.


HST isn’t bonded...


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[HCM]

HST isn’t bonded...


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Technically, no, since it’s not electroplated but they crimp the core to the jacket to achieve the same result. I’m not seeing that crimson the punch ammo.

Regardless, I think the difference in price is more about protecting the value of their premium brands than the difference in production costs.

[Sigfan26]

Technically, no, since it’s not electroplated but they crimp the core to the jacket to achieve the same result. I’m not seeing that crimson the punch ammo.


Which Hornady copies with Flexlock. Hornady copied Federal.


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[HCM]

Which Hornady copies with Flexlock. Hornady copied Federal.


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Yes but flexlock bullets are only used in critical duty. So it looks like Hornady copied Federal’s bonded bullet work around and now Federal is copying Honady’s marketing/branding scheme.

[Sigfan26]

Yes but flexlock bullets are only used in critical duty. So it looks like Hornady copied Federal’s bonded bullet work around and now Federal is copying Honady’s marketing/branding scheme.

How is Federal copying Hornady? Federal HST has been a staple for quite some time. Long before Critical Duty existed.


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[Sigfan26]

How is Federal copying Hornady? Federal HST has been a staple for quite some time. Long before Critical Duty existed.


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Oh! You mean fluffing a product! Nobody will surpass Hornady. How many different forms of XTP can a company introduce?


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[HCM]

Oh! You mean fluffing a product! Nobody will surpass Hornady. How many different forms of XTP can a company introduce?


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Not fluffing - offering a no crimp version of their premium ammo which is just enough different they can sell it cheaper without taking away some of the “premium-ness” of their premium ammo, HST.

[0ddl0t]

Technically, no, since it’s not electroplated but they crimp the core to the jacket to achieve the same result. I’m not seeing that crimson the punch ammo.

Punch appears to have a similar, if not the same, canelure as HST:

Punch 147:
https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47318&d=1579236293

HST 124:
47613

[ST911]

If it's posted I missed it... Has anybody called one of their engineering or tech folks and just asked what the difference is?

[SCCY Marshal]

They look very similar, but the HST's lead appears to maintain structured ribs while the Punch's lead just mushes. I suspect the HST's sharper edges cut more readily giving a bit more penetration...

https://www.federalpremium.com/dw/image/v2/BDBJ_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-vista-master-catalog/default/dw45fda4e7/images/large/FP_PPD_P40HST1S_40SWHST_Upset_A.jpg

https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47319&d=1579236321

No real intention of ditching my 180 grain HST preferred and 180 grain Gold Dot substitute standard stocking plan but will likely buy some of the 165 grain to play with. Be curious to see how it holds up out of a carbine and if it still works from a Shield/G27. Granted into my block of clear fauxgel but good enough for a basic feel out of sandpit curiosity.

[Danjojo]

Would you please elaborate?
The jackets are significantly different between the Hydra-Shok Deep and Punch bullets.

Think you're right, expanded bullets looked very similar at a quick glance save for the post. Looking closer the different cuts and crimping give a different type of expansion also - wider spaced and longer petals.

[Alpha Sierra]

but they would be buying ammo that seems to admittedly potentially be less capable. I don't get it.

I get it. I couldn't give a F less about penetration through windshields or car doors.

[Alpha Sierra]

.38 Special +P 120-grain load at 1,070 fps

Interesting

[Tokarev]

40 and 45 in stock:

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-punch-40-sw-ammo-165-grain-jhp-pd40p1-p-110241.aspx

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-punch-45-acp-auto-ammo-230-grain-jhp-pd45p1-p-110240.aspx

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[Archer1440]

A friend just scored 10 boxes of the 124 9mm “Punch” ammo at ~$0.50/round (industry deal) and we will be testing this week. Looks just like an HST, but it has a soft lead core and is probably a lot cheaper to make.

Might make for a good alternative to actually training with HST, which has gotten stupid expensive in the current circumstances.

[03RN]

A friend just scored 10 boxes of the 124 9mm “Punch” ammo at ~$0.50/round (industry deal) and we will be testing this week. Looks just like an HST, but it has a soft lead core and is probably a lot cheaper to make.

Might make for a good alternative to actually training with HST, which has gotten stupid expensive in the current circumstances.


Do people really train with hst?

[Archer1440]

Do people really train with hst?

I always start every range session with a pair to a Gunsite option target at 25 yards, cold, from concealment, with what I’m carrying that day. So, yes. A bit. That works out to only 8-16 rounds/month, after all.

[Hot Cereal]

I used to get all caught up in ammo performance- whats the best, etc. Now, I don't care. At the end of the day it's all the same. As long as it reliably ignites and delivers acceptable accuracy, it's fine. The majority of the ammo that "works great for me" is never actually used for its intended purpose. With the huge shifts in what performance is expected out of ammo it seems to me that we can all just shift back to the old XTP and get what we "need", will likely never actually "use", save some cash on "old bullet tech", and move on with our lives.

If I could find some 124gr XTPs @ ≥1150fps I'd order 5 cases once prices dropped a bit and be done buying 9mm HP ammo for a good while. I'd do the same thing for 180gr @ ≥950fps, and 230gr @≥ 875 fps.

Federal Punch looks like an overpriced, watered down HSTish like bullet that Federal put some catchy advertising on to sell for $1.25/round. I'd wager the cheap UMC 115gr JHP will produce similar results when applied equally IRL.

Cue my scolding for 'Ammunition Forum Blasphemy'.

[JCN]

I always start every range session with a pair to a Gunsite option target at 25 yards, cold, from concealment, with what I’m carrying that day. So, yes. A bit. That works out to only 8-16 rounds/month, after all.

I’m sitting on a bunch of Federal “Training Match” that is loaded and has POA/POI like HST. I use that to vet my carry setup from time to time.

I’ll also primarily use Lawman (loaded like Gold Dots) for range work unless I’m gaming something.