The big 10.5"-12.5" general purpose pistol/SBR thread

[awp_101]

The thread on Wolf Importing Steel Cased 300 Blackout (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?40179-Wolf-Importing-Steel-Cased-300-Blackout&p=979147#post979147) got me to looking around for a thread like this and I really didn't see one, so here we are. If there's already one and I missed with by not using the right search string...well, here we are anyway.

After spending a month or so building an AR9 pistol in my head I started thinking about a rifle caliber pistol build. There is no best/perfect/one to rule them all because everyone has different wants and needs, I get that. I'd like this thread to be a place you can show and describe your pistol/SBR and explain why you put it together the way you did. Plus I'm going to mine it for ideas should I ever decide to quit overthinking what I want and just build one. ;)

Aaaaaand go! :D

[DpdG]

I'm issued a Colt 933 (11.5" Commando), and despite its previous 15-18 years of front line use/abuse with no round count records and absolutely zero preventative maintenance, it kept on chugging. Some of our similar rifles were beginning to exhibit symptoms of wear so once I took over armorer duty I budgeted to refurb the oldest rifles. With the assistance of Wayne Dobbs (thanks again!) I re-sprung the lowers and replaced the uppers with complete BCM MCMR 11.5" uppers. I wish I could have budgeted for the BFH or ELW barrels, but all I could swing was standard chrome lined barrels.

The 933/BCM 11.5" combo has been very ammo tolerant and I've had no issues with them in service for a couple years now. Round counts aren't terrible- 1.5-3k/year, but the handling and environmental abuse are significant- banging around in cruisers and at calls. The guns continue to run well and I'm not chasing parts breakages anymore.

For personal use I have a Sionics pistol lower with a self-built upper using a BA Hanson 11.3" barrel and a Midwest combat rail hand guard. So far no complaints but I also don't have nearly the depth of experience as with the work gun. Not that it makes a huge difference, but the work guns are H1/standard buffer spring vs. personal is H2/Springco blue.

[Screwball]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200111/e7cae5ff5bf4a394dc138da9ab779643.jpg

Anderson lower, SBA3 brace, Adams Arms 11.5” piston upper, with a SIG Romeo5. Other highlights, MOE-K grip, KVP Linear Compensator, MBUS sights (Pro up front for heat with gas block), and a nickel-Boron trigger group. Might swap the trigger for a Fostech Echo II, if all good when it comes back from Fostech (C/S is awesome with them). Only difference from picture is actually have an ambidextrous selector, opposed to one that had stripped threads.

Comes out to just under 26”, which is a nice setup to have just leaving NJ. My new truck gun, so I set it up to be used if there ever was an active shooter or another type of threat when I’m not working. The Echo trigger would be a nice addition... if it functions 100%. SIG red dot is good enough for what I need, with the battery life I’d want in this role. I do have a LaRue mount on order for it, in case I ever had to pull it from the gun. TLR-1 is one of my standard lights, and running Gen 2 PMAGs in it (straight 20 is the one in the gun for profile sake).

I wanted to stick in the over 10” range, mainly for velocity. I run two types of ammo; Hornady Critical Defense (73 grain) and M855. Hornady is in the gun, and have a four magazine pouch holding two Hornady and two M855. Also tossed an extra magazine of each in the center console. My theory... CD does well out of short barrels ballistically. Not too sure on hard barrier penetration, which I am sure on M855. If CD works well through barriers, I’ll dump M855 and go all Hornady... but too early to tell.

I considered a 9mm pistol, and probably will get a CMMG Banshee when we move over to Glocks... but only benefit is magazine compatibility and less noise. Personally, I rather a rifle round over a pistol round... but both likely would work.

[kwb377]

Years ago (early - mid 2000's) I carried a 10.5" LMT upper/ Colt M16 lower combo at work for awhile. Ran like a raped ape, no issues.

https://pbase.com/kwb377/image/54652552.jpg


About ten years ago I SBR'ed my personal 6920 to 14.5"...then a couple years later installed a BCM 11.5" BFH barrel w/ DD BCG and a Brownell's lo-pro gas block. I put several thousand rounds through it with no issues.

https://pbase.com/kwb377/image/144245926.jpg



This past summer I put the barrel and a BCM gas block into a BCM upper, then bought a BCM lower and built as a pistol. I've got a couple thousand rounds through it now with no issues.

https://pbase.com/kwb377/image/170264177.jpg



About a month ago, I bought a Ruger AR-556 10.5" pistol and installed a Law tactical folder. I've only got @ 1k rounds through it so far, no issues.

https://pbase.com/kwb377/image/170264179.jpg


I've had zero functioning issues with any of them. The only preventative maintenance I've done has been replace the gas rings in the Colt a few years ago and an H2 buffer with new spring in it a few months ago.

[Casual Friday]

My 11.5" guns are the only ones that get shot anymore. My 16" collects dust.

My favorite 11.5" is my Colt 6933. I've had it the longest and have the most rounds through it. It's been dead nuts reliable and the only thing I've done to it is replace the gas rings at 5000 round intervals. I was going to chop the FSB and install the Geissele Fed rail I bought last year on Black Friday, but I'm gonna chop the rail for the FSB.

My other 11.5" is a BCM MCMR. It's been nothing but boringly reliable as well.

I built another with a Spike's CHF barrel that's made by FN on an Aero stripped upper and a Colt BCG. I let my wife shoot that one or friends that I take shooting. It's over gassed in comparison to the Colt and BCM but it's been reliable as well. It's the least accurate of the 3 11.5" barrels that I have.

I find 11.5" to be the perfect length for me and my needs/wants/larping requirements. A Law folder makes it a great travel gun and fits my Vertx Gamut Plus perfectly.

[Poconnor]

I have two 11.5” 5.56 AR pistols. I have no desire to go shorter in 5.56. But for a 300BO is there a “Goldilocks” length for a 300BO AR with and without a suppressor?

[DpdG]

Here’s the work 933:
47100

[Darth_Uno]

Regarding uppers, let’s use my favorite as a base. BCM 14.5” midlength gas, ELW profile, pinned A2X. This is IMO the sweet spot for a non-NFA do-everything “you can only have one gun” weapon. Fortunately this is America and I can have more than one gun.

Aero upper, gov profile 12.5” barrel, carbine gas, Atlas R-One handguard, YHM Phantom flash hider: due to the gov profile, this is only 2 oz lighter and the only benefit is being 2” shorter - while still being restricted to all the ‘pistol’ BS. That said, I do like it, and don’t plan to sell or trade it. After zeroing at 25 yds, I haven’t attempted to see just how accurate it can be beyond that. It’s been boringly reliable and accurate enough to ring 8” steel plates all day long at 100 yds with an MRO and XM193. For my purposes, it’s fine. And not only fine, I like it very much. I know the YHM flash hider isn’t cool anymore, I just happened to have it. Also runs frangible 5.56 equally well, I used that on some closer drills.

LaRue 12” Ultimate Upper (Stealth barrel): I took off the Tranquilo brake (not a brake fan) and just put an A2 on it. With that, the whole upper setup is 5 oz heavier than the BCM. Again, I haven’t pushed the accuracy but this feels like something you could take to war. It’s solid. And likewise runs XM193 with no issues. I love the upper, it’s solid and well-made, but IMO this would probably be better in a scoped 16+” platform just because of the weight. Being heavier defeats the purpose of going shorter, but it is a very good product. Balances better with the SBA4 brace, vs the lighter SBA3.

BCM 11.5” ELW, MCMR 10” rail, Surefire 3P flash hider: this is not only 3” (obviously) shorter than the 14.5 but it’s 6 oz lighter (probably 7 if you ran an A2). Haven’t shot it yet, but I expect no issues. Handles extremely well. Going shorter with the ELW barrel makes for a very light, compact platform. Looking forward to running drills with this and comparing it to the 14.5” version.

Standard springs and buffers on everything, I don’t have time to dick around with tuning everything. Fortunately everything has run perfectly fine so far with no adjustments necessary.

And if anyone cares, I run Phase 5 straps on my braces because they add a small bit of stiffness...and they look cool which doesn’t hurt.

[rob_s]

I have a pair of “big pin” 6933 factory SBRs. They haven’t been shot in a great long while but when they did I never had an issue. One is a dedicated suppressor host, the other is a dedicated ultralight. I think when I got mine you could just about only get them from Clyde Armory, if memory serves? Maybe it was someone else. They specialized in Colt parts when you couldn’t get them anywhere else, and I think the owner taught Armorer courses and was wideLy regarded as the Colt SME?

[Nephrology]

https://i.imgur.com/bjbeJtP.jpg

Top is an 11.5" DSG Duty grade upper; bottom is 11.5" Aero upper. Not a ton of rounds through them yet but no issues so far.

[navyman8903]

I have an SR16 and if my Geissele order gets here one of their 11.5's I'm eager to try out. I hate anything less than 11.5 for sure. I'm also eyeballing the Triarc 12.5 very seriously. Which is all ironic because my go to guns are 16" and 14.5". I had zero interest in running anything this short because of my experiences with 10.3 and 10.5. But the 11.5 has been a wholly different and rewarding experience for sure.

Here's baby girl till the Geissele gets here.

47111

[Casual Friday]

I have a pair of “big pin” 6933 factory SBRs. They haven’t been shot in a great long while but when they did I never had an issue. One is a dedicated suppressor host, the other is a dedicated ultralight. I think when I got mine you could just about only get them from Clyde Armory, if memory serves? Maybe it was someone else. They specialized in Colt parts when you couldn’t get them anywhere else, and I think the owner taught Armorer courses and was wideLy regarded as the Colt SME?

That's where mine came from but it's not a big pin. They also had some agency trade in 6933 uppers a couple years back for a song. Unknown round counts, but based on how the internals looked I'd guess it wasn't shot much.

[awp_101]

They're all looking great so far!

I like the setups with the sling going around the grip, how is that done? That's what I need to do for storage in the safe.

Other than running a suppressor or a dedicated .22LR, are there any muzzle devices that keep blast and concussion below "Sweet Mother of Pearl, I just had a flash-bang go off next to my head!" levels? I know indoors that's going to be impossible without a can but for range use what's a good choice? How's the VG6 with a CAGE? I've already got the device, just haven't popped for the CAGE yet.

47112

[Casual Friday]

They're all looking great so far!

I like the setups with the sling going around the grip, how is that done? That's what I need to do for storage in the safe.

Other than running a suppressor or a dedicated .22LR, are there any muzzle devices that keep blast and concussion below "Sweet Mother of Pearl, I just had a flash-bang go off next to my head!" levels? I know indoors that's going to be impossible without a can but for range use what's a good choice? How's the VG6 with a CAGE? I've already got the device, just haven't popped for the CAGE yet.

47112

The Black River Tactical Covert Comp is the best blast forward device I've tried and it's basically the same length and weight as an A2 birdcage.

[Nephrology]

https://i.imgur.com/bjbeJtP.jpg

Top is an 11.5" DSG Duty grade upper; bottom is 11.5" Aero upper. Not a ton of rounds through them yet but no issues so far.

Oh, forgot the "why" part...

I wanted short, maneuverable, general purpose carbines that will eventually be suppressor hosts. Aimpoint PROs + magpul MBUS seemed like the right price/value point for sights that are still duty grade. Have LPVOs on my 16"s. Purchased assembled uppers as I am still new-ish to AR platform; the DSG is a nicer build overall and gets used with brass ammo only. Bottom gets a mix of steel and brass ammo and is mostly a trainer for the above.

I also have a PSA 11.5" upper that I got for cheap on black friday. Joined the extra PSA pistol lower I had kicking around. Holosun optic, FSB and used MBUS rear for sights. Beater for general abuse/loaner use at range.

Very happy with 11.5" barrels (hence why I have 3). Strike the right balance of length, reliability, and muzzle velocity. The 12.5" BCM Kino is tempting though... may snag that upper down the road.

[Holmes375]

11.5" BA barrel (5.56) on a BCM upper. Runs nice. Next one will be a 12.5" though.

47120

[kwb377]

Other than running a suppressor or a dedicated .22LR, are there any muzzle devices that keep blast and concussion below "Sweet Mother of Pearl, I just had a flash-bang go off next to my head!" levels? I know indoors that's going to be impossible without a can but for range use what's a good choice? How's the VG6 with a CAGE? I've already got the device, just haven't popped for the CAGE yet.

I tried a KWP linear comp on the 10.5", it seemed to reduce concussion a little (I put the birdcage back on to try on my next range trip to compare again). I was using a VG6 Gamma on the 11.5 (brutal) and a VG6 Epsilon on the 14.5 (not quite as brutal) but have gone back to regular 'ole flash hiders as recoil mitigation seemed negligible.

I always liked to save the SBR/braked guns on the range until "that guy" showed up...you know, the one when there's a dozen empty lanes and he comes all the way to the right where you are and takes the bench right next to you, and immediately starts throwing brass on you and your kids while trying to zero his new tacticool AR. I just gave 'em a sly smile and a "Whelp...you asked for it" look while pulling it out of the bag. Usually takes less than 20 rounds to get them to move.

[Casual Friday]

Aero M4 marked lower
Geissele SSA trigger
Geissele SCH
Vltor A5 system
Magpul MS1 sling with QD swivels
Magpul MBUS Pro
BCM 11.5" MCMR upper
Giving the Holosun 503g ACSS reticle a try with the magnifier on a QD mount. So far I dig this setup over a LVPO for my needs.

47123

[Nephrology]

I also have a PSA 11.5" upper that I got for cheap on black friday. Joined the extra PSA pistol lower I had kicking around. Holosun optic, FSB and used MBUS rear for sights. Beater for general abuse/loaner use at range.


Here is "el cheapo"

https://i.imgur.com/oUEKMxP.jpg

[Casual Friday]

Here is "el cheapo"

https://i.imgur.com/oUEKMxP.jpg

"Did we just become best friends?" My surplus 6933 upper on a PSA Stealth lower. The SL handguard works pretty well for a $30 option.
47140

The one on bottom is my wife's. Aero lower and upper receiver with a Spike's CHF barrel made by FN. Brownells Wrenchman free float rail.

[awp_101]

The PSAs are an interesting option I hadn't thought about. I've had a 16" 5.56 complete upper (bought new) and a 16" 9mm complete upper (bought used) that were just fine for the few rounds I put through them before moving them on. I guess I forgot they can be decent if you're willing to run the risk of having to "finish their build" as someone said.

Right now I'm not sure what's nuttier. Is it:

1. Considering a new PSA upper and lower to have a complete 11.5" pistol for ~$500

2. Considering a used BCM 11.5" upper w/o the bolt and CH for ~$500 putting me closer to $650 for just the upper

3. Considering either when today's range session proved that what I REALLY need is a case of 9mm, a case of 5.56, a class or 5 and a gym membership...

[pooty]

3. Considering either when today's range session proved that what I REALLY need is a case of 9mm, a case of 5.56, a class or 5 and a gym membership...

Dude if you gotta spend money I'd spend it on a class taught one of these Delta force combat vets, all within driving distance.

https://www.greeneyetactical.com/calendar/ (DFW!)
https://sobtactical.com/classes/texas/
http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/calendar.htm

I mean it's already incredible to be able to own assault rifles, but not only that you get trained in how to use them by ex-members of the world's most elite unit. You can always get another upper but how long with this training be legal? It's easier to ban the training, like they're trying to do in VA, then it is to ban the parts which are everywhere nowadays.

[MistWolf]

The Black River Tactical Covert Comp is the best blast forward device I've tried and it's basically the same length and weight as an A2 birdcage.

Yes. Yes, it is

[rob_s]

The Black River Tactical Covert Comp is the best blast forward device I've tried and it's basically the same length and weight as an A2 birdcage.


Yes. Yes, it is

Interesting. I don't have much of a care about such things right now, but I actually think I have one of those, plus a bunch of other prototype comps from Black River, from way back when I was writing.

I may have to try and dig it up.
https://www.blackrivertactical.com/concrete5/covert-comp/

[LittleLebowski]

Great thread.

[Crash41984]

I just finished up a pistol build using a Noveske Gen1 stripped lower and filled it with a Geissele trigger, their Ultra Duty LPK and threw a SBA3 on it. Snagged a 10.5 complete upper from them on Cyber Monday to finish it out. First 50rds shot last week and irons were producing less than 2" at 50yds. I'm anticipating that shrinking up some once I can the T2 sighted in. I wanted to go a smidge longer, but Michigan law said no :(

[snow white]

What would you guys suggest for flash suppression on a 11.5 upper? I dont have a can and cant see getting one in the near future. I'm leaning twords the warcomp, Would a blow forward comp be a better option?

[bravo7]

What would you guys suggest for flash suppression on a 11.5 upper? I dont have a can and cant see getting one in the near future. I'm leaning twords the warcomp, Would a blow forward comp be a better option?

+1 for Warcomp

[snow white]

+1 for Warcomp

Ok good. I have them on my other rifles and I really like them I was just unsure if they worked well with shorter barrels.
P.s. waiting for NFA stuff is for the birds.

[bravo7]

Ok good. I have them on my other rifles and I really like them I was just unsure if they worked well with shorter barrels.
P.s. waiting for NFA stuff is for the birds.

We have them on all our work shortys.

[snow white]

We have them on all our work shortys.

Thank you, good to know.

[awp_101]

What would you guys suggest for flash suppression on a 11.5 upper? I dont have a can and cant see getting one in the near future. I'm leaning twords the warcomp, Would a blow forward comp be a better option?

Black River Covert Comp was mentioned up thread as well

[Colt191145lover]

I have a closed tine Surefire Warcomp on my BCM 11.5 and cant tell the difference between and a flash hider for blast and concussion. It also does a great job at hiding flash.
I can not say the same for the BCM comp that was on it, that thing was miserable!

[Seven_Sicks_Two]

I've got a 10.5" 5.56 in an LMT MRP CQB (that is quite the pile of acronyms!) upper on an Aero pistol lower.

I already owned the complete LMT upper/lower with a 16" when I lived in CA. When I moved into my first apartment in a free state, I trashed the bullet button for a regular mag release before I even started unpacking boxes. I was knocking together a pistol lower and had a 10.5" barrel on order within a few days.

So, why 10.5"? At the time, LMT wasn't making their proprietary barrels in 11.5" and I didn't want to convert to a piston for their factory 12" barrel or wait months to have someone like Nefarious Arms convert a standard barrel for me. It has an Aimpoint PRO, X300U-B, and a BFG sling for no other reason than I had those parts available. It's fun to shoot, but the concussion is a bit much indoors.

I keep telling myself that one of these days I'm going to Form 1 the original lower and buy a 10.5" 300blk barrel. Nearly 4 years later, I still haven't gotten around to it.

[texag]

Upper #5 on this lower and what I think I'll stick with: 12.5" SOLGW barrel, triarc 11" wedgelok handguard, NX8 in a Geissele 1.93 mount, Geissele SD-C, Streamlight protac 1 on an arisaka inline mount. Easily <1.5MOA for a 10 round group with IMI 77gr shooting prone off the mag, should have enough velocity to upset with that load out to 350-400 yds dpending on the altitude. This will make for a really good do it all setup out here in CO. It is noticeably harsher than the 18" BCM barrel I had on this upper previously, but I also took over 1lb off the front end. I might get an adjustable GB or carrier key, or I might just remember to pull it into my shoulder with more authority.

https://i.imgur.com/Iqac4jGh.jpg

[ScotchMan]

Great thread. Dumb question, maybe, do you need a different kind of lower to build a pistol than a normal rifle? I didn't think you did, but I've seen a couple references to "pistol lower," and now I'm not sure if the actual lower receiver is different or if those comments are just referring to the buffer tube/stock/brace situation.

I'd also be interested in any thoughts people have on 9mm vs. 5.56 in this size factor. A 9mm gets a lot out of a 7-10" barrel relative to its standard (4"), whereas 5.56 is handicapped in a 10-11" barrel relative to its standard (16-18"). I suspect the answer is still 5.56 being superior, assuming it is able to tumble/fragment, which probably means one is limited to shorter ranges. But I think there may (or may not) be something to say about "supercharged" 9mms?

Sorry if this is hijacking, don't think so though since OP expressed interest in both.

[Darth_Uno]

The lower is the exact same. You just have to fill out your 4473 as "handgun" or "other". What you may not do is take a receiver on record as a rifle and build a pistol out of it. So if you bought a rifle at the gun store, you can't sell all the parts except the lower and build a pistol with it. I bet a lot of people don't know that, and I haven't heard of anyone getting in trouble for doing that...but you're not supposed to.

Edit to add: pretty good and quick info here, without information overload: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/keeping-your-ar-15-pistol-build-within-legal-limits/

[Bart Carter]

Great thread. Dumb question, maybe, do you need a different kind of lower to build a pistol than a normal rifle? I didn't think you did, but I've seen a couple references to "pistol lower," and now I'm not sure if the actual lower receiver is different or if those comments are just referring to the buffer tube/stock/brace situation...

Same lower. The only actual difference is stock or no stock. The buffer tube doesn't matter, but some are set up for braces and some are set up for adjustable stocks.

Also, you can have a pistol, change it to a rifle (add stock and longer barrel), and back to a pistol. But you can't have a rifle and change it to a pistol. I build all my ARs as a pistol first and then to a rifle if I want. (A pistol does not need a brace to be a pistol either.)

[M2CattleCo]

I like 11.5" as they seem to be less finicky than 10.3-10.5"s.

The Colt 11.5" heavy is the KING of short barrels. The only reason I run anything shorter than 14.5" is to keep it handy suppressed.

I've been shooting BCMs for over a decade and their barrels are consistently the worst I've ever seen in accuracy and fouling.

I've been shooting Colts for two decades and their barrels are consistently the best. As are Daniel Defense, Centurion, Noveske, Spikes, Criterion. Although some of those can be gassy.

[awp_101]

Great thread. Dumb question, maybe, do you need a different kind of lower to build a pistol than a normal rifle? I didn't think you did, but I've seen a couple references to "pistol lower," and now I'm not sure if the actual lower receiver is different or if those comments are just referring to the buffer tube/stock/brace situation.
Anytime I've bought a stripped lower it's been listed as "other" on the 4473 so it could be built either way initially but once a rifle, technically always a rifle unless you SBR. My question is unless you took pics, told a bunch of people or only have 1-2 lowers, how will anyone know if you initially built that stripped lower as a rifle or pistol? But that question is outside the scope of this thread.



I'd also be interested in any thoughts people have on 9mm vs. 5.56 in this size factor. A 9mm gets a lot out of a 7-10" barrel relative to its standard (4"), whereas 5.56 is handicapped in a 10-11" barrel relative to its standard (16-18"). I suspect the answer is still 5.56 being superior, assuming it is able to tumble/fragment, which probably means one is limited to shorter ranges. But I think there may (or may not) be something to say about "supercharged" 9mms?
JMHO, but I don't have any reason (or the experience) to buck the current wisdom. If my plan is for it to be a primary HD piece, I'm OK with a PCC with JHP it likes because it's probably not going to be suppressed. If it's going to be in a "get back home" bag, I'm OK with an 11.5-12.5 rifle caliber which should be OK out to ~300m (I'm a bigger limitation on range than the equipment).

[BWT]

I like 11.5" as they seem to be less finicky than 10.3-10.5"s.

The Colt 11.5" heavy is the KING of short barrels. The only reason I run anything shorter than 14.5" is to keep it handy suppressed.

I've been shooting BCMs for over a decade and their barrels are consistently the worst I've ever seen in accuracy and fouling.

I've been shooting Colts for two decades and their barrels are consistently the best. As are Daniel Defense, Centurion, Noveske, Spikes, Criterion. Although some of those can be gassy.

I had not heard about BCM inaccuracy issues. I shoot only BCM’s. I also shoot mostly match type settings where I don’t get far out enough to notice and I’m shooting with RDS and Iron Sights. So, I just always thought I didn’t know what I was doing - still may be true...

I’ve found them to be decently accurate - more than me.

Are you shooting their Hammer Forged, ELW, SS, or traditional barrels?

[M2CattleCo]

I had not heard about BCM inaccuracy issues. I shoot only BCM’s. I also shoot mostly match type settings where I don’t get far out enough to notice and I’m shooting with RDS and Iron Sights. So, I just always thought I didn’t know what I was doing - still may be true...

I’ve found them to be decently accurate - more than me.

Are you shooting their Hammer Forged, ELW, SS, or traditional barrels?


All of 'em. Since they were marked MOS back on '07 or so.

The stainless ones shoot well. The chrome lined are ho-hum. I honestly think the CHF are the worst.

[BWT]

All of 'em. Since they were marked MOS back on '07 or so.

The stainless ones shoot well. The chrome lined are ho-hum. I honestly think the CHF are the worst.

I use the Chrome-lines - I also shoot wolf and other 55 gr 5.56 FMJ’s predominantly.

It grouped well when zeroing 77 gr TMK for me, but anyway.

[kwb377]

All of 'em. Since they were marked MOS back on '07 or so.

The stainless ones shoot well. The chrome lined are ho-hum. I honestly think the CHF are the worst.

I've noticed this with mine (11.5" BFH bought circa 2011)...out of my personally owned and work issued AR's, it has shown the least accuracy and consistency.

[awp_101]

Looks like I'll have a 12.5" build underway soon. Picked up this pistol lower kit from PSA (https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pistol-lower-build-kit-with-adjustable-sb-tactical-brace-5165448118.html) last week and after chasing specials and sales looking to piece together the upper, I just said screw it and hit the easy button by ordering THIS (https://bkingsfirearms.com/shop/complete-upper-receivers/bkf-ar15-govt-12-5-556-nato-carbine-length-1-7-twist-barrel-w-11-625-slim-m-lok-handguard-ballistic-advantage/) a few minutes ago.

As much as I enjoy the build process my time is becoming more and more limited. I'd have ordered an assembled PSA pistol lower instead of the kit but I've still got a couple of stripped lowers that need something to do.

[texasaggie2005]

Just finished putting this together today; 11.5" pistol with Geissele, Surefire, Trijicon, Magpul & SB Tactical. Can't wait to take it out.

https://imgur.com/TSfY14u.jpg

[Inkwell 41]

So far, 5.56 is dominating the conversation. The OP, awp_101, mentioned 300 Blackout. Should this be taken that 300 isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be, or that it’s ideal workspace is in barrels shorter than 10.5”? Would anyone here consider a 10.X +” 300 as too long for general purposes and that 5.56 is a better choice? I’ve had limited time shooting a 10”, unsuppressed 5.56 with an A2 hider. The gun ran, but it was, uh.. unpleasant. Never having fired a 300 Blackout, I don’t have a reference point. I think I want an AR pistol, just not certain which way to go. Thanks.

[stinx]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200111/e7cae5ff5bf4a394dc138da9ab779643.jpg

Anderson lower, SBA3 brace, Adams Arms 11.5” piston upper, with a SIG Romeo5. Other highlights, MOE-K grip, KVP Linear Compensator, MBUS sights (Pro up front for heat with gas block), and a nickel-Boron trigger group. Might swap the trigger for a Fostech Echo II, if all good when it comes back from Fostech (C/S is awesome with them). Only difference from picture is actually have an ambidextrous selector, opposed to one that had stripped threads.

Comes out to just under 26”, which is a nice setup to have just leaving NJ. My new truck gun, so I set it up to be used if there ever was an active shooter or another type of threat when I’m not working. The Echo trigger would be a nice addition... if it functions 100%. SIG red dot is good enough for what I need, with the battery life I’d want in this role. I do have a LaRue mount on order for it, in case I ever had to pull it from the gun. TLR-1 is one of my standard lights, and running Gen 2 PMAGs in it (straight 20 is the one in the gun for profile sake).

I wanted to stick in the over 10” range, mainly for velocity. I run two types of ammo; Hornady Critical Defense (73 grain) and M855. Hornady is in the gun, and have a four magazine pouch holding two Hornady and two M855. Also tossed an extra magazine of each in the center console. My theory... CD does well out of short barrels ballistically. Not too sure on hard barrier penetration, which I am sure on M855. If CD works well through barriers, I’ll dump M855 and go all Hornady... but too early to tell.

I considered a 9mm pistol, and probably will get a CMMG Banshee when we move over to Glocks... but only benefit is magazine compatibility and less noise. Personally, I rather a rifle round over a pistol round... but both likely would work.

which larue mount for the romeo 5?

[Screwball]

which larue mount for the romeo 5?

LT-751...

[Tom Fineis]

Pic is a couple years old but it's mostly the same gun these days. DD MK18 (10.3") upper on a VLTOR F/A demo lower with VLTOR A5 recoil system, which I think is a great fit on SBR's.

I shoot everything from 77 OTM to 55gr Wolf. It's been mag dumped F/A, cooled with bottled water, and tossed in a case I don't know how many times. Still shoots about 3MOA using brass case ammo and I can't remember a single stoppage with this gun. I keep thinking it's time to swap the barrel but every time I settle in to recheck the zero it's shooting just fine. I haven't checked the POI shift with the suppressor in a long time, because the suppressor basically lives on this gun, but when I initially set it up it was imperceptible at 100 yards and I think the short/stiff barrel has a lot to do with that.

If I were doing it again today I might look for an 11.5" barrel, but I don't think it matters all that much. I've owned a bunch of different rifles and barrels, and I have never had an issue with a DD barrel and bolt combo. Given the track record, especially with this rifle, I can't see spending money on anything else.

[navyman8903]

Just finished putting this together today; 11.5" pistol with Geissele, Surefire, Trijicon, Magpul & SB Tactical. Can't wait to take it out.

https://imgur.com/TSfY14u.jpg

That's almost 100% the setup I'm putting together, I'm very interested to see how it runs. Any feed back you have would be appreciated.

[texasaggie2005]

That's almost 100% the setup I'm putting together, I'm very interested to see how it runs. Any feed back you have would be appreciated.

This is my first short barrel AR, so I have nothing to compare it to.

Put 200rds thru it last weekend at the local indoor range. Was only able to shoot at 27yds, so keep that in mind. But I was primarily just making sure everything was working right. Zero issues to report. 150rds of mixed Federal & Winchester 55gr, and 50rds of Federal Fusion 62gr. Various gen3 PMAGs fed great, extraction / ejection was good, recoil was no worse than my Colt 6720 or M4A1 upper. I did have the Super42 spring w/ H2 buffer, which seems to be the sweet spot. Accuracy, though at 27yds, was typical for 55gr fodder. It stacked the Fusion though when I did my part. I have one 10rd group that was dime sized. For me, with my eyesight and a red dot, and basic shooting skill, I'm happy with that.

Overall, consider me a satisfied customer, especially for what I paid with the Black Friday deals.

[karmapolice]

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/83346024_801905250315127_161629922975023104_o.jpg? _nc_cat=100&_nc_ohc=Ye9KwCrtIHUAX9DFPK7&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=87ac2a31201fbf2af66f4368fdaaadab&oe=5EBF700A
Optics:
Nightforce NX8 MIL/LE capped turret model with MIL turrets and reticle in a Gissele plinko won 1.93" mount

Type 1 Trijicon RMR 3.25 adjustable in Reptilia mount with two spacers for clearance

Light/Laser:
B.E. Meyers MAWL C1+ with EC2 cap

Surefire DF 600 earlier R&D pro (pre-release) with DS-00 tail cap

Unity Tactical Sync Version 1 for control

Upper Components:
Geissele stripped upper

Geissele 11.5" duty barrel with bomb proof instillation of gas block

ALG nitride BCG

Geissele newer FED rail 10"

Rail Scale HTP covers

Surefire Warcomp

Surefire SOCOM MINI suppresor

Geissele Government CH

Condition Gray sling retainer

Lower Components:
Knights Armament factory SBR lower (sold the upper long ago)

Knights AMBI safety and trigger guard

Geissele SD-C trigger

Geissele Maritime bolt catch

Geissele Super 42 spring with H2 buffer

LAW tactical gen3 folder

Magpul SL stock

Tangodown BG-18 grip

Sierra Tac sling

[awp_101]

Got the BKF upper in short order, no pics yet but it looks good. Picked up a used 10.5" QC10 9mm barrel and a cheap handguard off the ARF EE this morning. Just need a hybrid bolt and then I'll start on that project.

[snow white]

So I still haven't settled on what upper I want to purchase for my recently approved sbr. I'm stuck between SOLGW and a PWS 111. I have heard piston guns tend to do better in an sbr roll. I dont have the experience with piston sbrs to confirm or deny this myself.

[awp_101]

I have heard piston guns tend to do better in an sbr roll. I dont have the experience with piston sbrs to confirm or deny this myself.
I don't have the experience either but my understanding is "it depends". IIRC in Ian McCollum's interview with Larry Vickers, Vickers said the short DI guns were beating themselves to death in the constant high round count training done by Delta and that was the impetus for the HK416. I think he said something along the lines of pistons are an advantage in heavy use SBRs or if you're shooting lots of suppressed FA but I may have some of that mixed up with something else.

[MistWolf]

So I still haven't settled on what upper I want to purchase for my recently approved sbr. I'm stuck between SOLGW and a PWS 111. I have heard piston guns tend to do better in an sbr roll. I dont have the experience with piston sbrs to confirm or deny this myself.

Direct gas systems have been refined to the point there's no reason to use a "piston" upper for a shorty AR. In fact, there's evidence that the direct gas system is the better choice for a suppressed shorty.

[snow white]

Direct gas systems have been refined to the point there's no reason to use a "piston" upper for a shorty AR. In fact, there's evidence that the direct gas system is the better choice for a suppressed shorty.

Interesting, thank you.

[hiro]

there's evidence that the direct gas system is the better choice for a suppressed shorty.

Please link or otherwise support your statement.

[MistWolf]

Please link or otherwise support your statement.

It used to be conventional wisdom that ARs as short as 10.5" 5.56 were picky about ammo and difficult to get running reliably. Now, with a better understanding of gas porting, correct buffer weighting and proper springs, shorty ARs have become easy to set up to run reliably without harsh recoil, even as a dedicated suppressor host. ARs are more refined now than they have ever been.

Some shooters have found when suppressed, "piston" uppers (that is, an upper that has its piston located in the gas block instead of the carrier) has a louder port pop. They've also found that recoil tends to be harsher.

With the introduction of the pistol arm brace, the popularity of short ARs has exploded. Many are used as suppressor hosts. Black River Tactical has even gone so far as to offer short barrels with gas ports optimized for a specific use, such as 100% suppressed. But of all the short ARs on the market and all the companies enticing customers with better and better mouse traps, there are very few with gas block pistons.

[snow white]

49395
49396
Aero lower populated with a SOLGW blaster starter kit.
A1 stock on a law folder with springco red spring and spikes t2 buffer.
PWS 111 mk1 upper with an mro and mbuis.
Streamlight on an arisaka mount as well as an arisaka vfg.
Blueforce gear sling with blueforce gear fixed stock adapter and front sling adapter.
Reptilia pistol grip.

[HeavyDuty]

49395
49396
Aero lower populated with a SOLGW blaster starter kit.
A1 stock on a law folder with springco red spring and spikes t2 buffer.
PWS 111 mk1 upper with an mro and mbuis.
Streamlight on an arisaka mount as well as an arisaka vfg.
Blueforce gear sling with blueforce gear fixed stock adapter and front sling adapter.
Reptilia pistol grip.

I had no idea you could mount an A1 on a LAW folder! I wonder how that would work with one of those stubby fixed entry stocks - the LOP would be a little long for me, even with an A1.

[snow white]

I had no idea you could mount an A1 on a LAW folder! I wonder how that would work with one of those stubby fixed entry stocks - the LOP would be a little long for me, even with an A1.

It can indeed be done! I had an a2 originally and changed it almost immediately to the A1. The LOP feels just right to me. I'm 6'1 and have long arms for my size to the point where finding proper fitting dress shirts is a challenge. For my body this seems to fit just right.

[HeavyDuty]

It can indeed be done! I had an a2 originally and changed it almost immediately to the A1. The LOP feels just right to me. I'm 6'1 and have long arms for my size to the point where finding proper fitting dress shirts is a challenge. For my body this seems to fit just right.

Nice! I just noticed your location - I will be south of you by end of summer.

[snow white]

Nice! I just noticed your location - I will be south of you by end of summer.

Awesome man, welcome! If you are looking for suggestions on outdoor activities or want a buddy to shoot with I'm around.

[awp_101]

An entry length stock plus a LAW folder is an intriguing idea! Does anyone know of a brace with the same LOP as the stubby entry stocks?

I’m seriously considering selling my braced CZ Scorpion to standardize on ARs for rifle and pistol caliber longarms with a Ruger PCC as my “don’t scare the neighbors” option.

[HeavyDuty]

An entry length stock plus a LAW folder is an intriguing idea! Does anyone know of a brace with the same LOP as the stubby entry stocks?

I want to say they are the same length as a carbine RE, so...

[jandbj]

I had no idea you could mount an A1 on a LAW folder! I wonder how that would work with one of those stubby fixed entry stocks - the LOP would be a little long for me, even with an A1.

Methinks the LAW plus a Sully stock would be the shiznit! I’m in SNH.

[snow white]

Methinks the LAW plus a Sully stock would be the shiznit! I’m in SNH.

That may need to happen

[jandbj]

That may need to happen

RRA Entry stock would shave a few ounces... the Sully is a solid little bugger.

[rainman]

Aero lower populated with a SOLGW blaster starter kit.
A1 stock on a law folder with springco red spring and spikes t2 buffer.
PWS 111 mk1 upper with an mro and mbuis.
Streamlight on an arisaka mount as well as an arisaka vfg.
Blueforce gear sling with blueforce gear fixed stock adapter and front sling adapter.
Reptilia pistol grip.

Curious as to how you (and others who have tried) like the Reptilia pistol grip and what difference(s) it makes.

Thanks.


-Rainman

[snow white]

Curious as to how you (and others who have tried) like the Reptilia pistol grip and what difference(s) it makes.

Thanks.


-Rainman

I love them and have them on all my rifles.
Positives- steep grip angle, does a very good job of pushing the hand high twords the rifle, compact and comfortable.
Negatives- no storage compartment, stubby enough where people with very large hands might find it uncomfortable.

Like I said tho, I love them. They have become my go to for all my ARs.

[rainman]

I love them and have them on all my rifles.
Positives- steep grip angle, does a very good job of pushing the hand high twords the rifle, compact and comfortable.
Negatives- no storage compartment, stubby enough where people with very large hands might find it uncomfortable.

Like I said tho, I love them. They have become my go to for all my ARs.

Thank you!

Planning to give them a try.


-Rainman

[littlejerry]

Can we discuss barrel lengths?

I'm looking at 11.5 or 12.5 options. I have a YHM Turbo K in jail. I've used it at some indoor matches on my 16" mid rifle and now I've got the itch for something shorter.

Has anyone tried stretching the legs on an 11.5 or 12.5? How far have you been able to reliably hit torsos?

[MistWolf]

A 10.5 inch upper and Federal XM195 ammo will easily reach out to 300 yards or more. Using an improvised rest and a red dot, I could consistently hit basketball sized rocks. I find an 11.5 inch upper even easier to shoot at those ranges.

[littlejerry]

How about 500 yards? Most of the matches I shoot at will have at least 1 stage that stretches out to 400-600 yards.

I suppose my real question is what kind of velocity are people getting from IMI 77gr out of 11.5 and 12.5 barrels?

[Talionis]

Can we discuss barrel lengths?

I'm looking at 11.5 or 12.5 options. I have a YHM Turbo K in jail. I've used it at some indoor matches on my 16" mid rifle and now I've got the itch for something shorter.

Has anyone tried stretching the legs on an 11.5 or 12.5? How far have you been able to reliably hit torsos?

The Turbo K is a nice little can.

A decent quality 11.5-12.5 is extremely capable, at least as far as making hits goes. The farthest I've pushed my favorite shorty 11.5 built with a Ballistic Advantage BA Hanson barrel was a lased 684 yards on torso sized steel with a full value wind from 5-10 mph. With good dope and wind calls, it was making very repeatable hits at that distance. Calling those hits took a combination of listening intently and watching trace, not a ton of impact energy at that distance.

[WDR]

Hitting at distance isn't a problem with short barrels, assuming you know your dope/drops... Terminal ballistic performance does drop off quite a bit though, and makes ammunition selection more critical. I can rock the 300 yard gong all day, even with irons on my 11.5"... but the terminal performance of 55gr ball at that distance would be a lot less than what you'd see at 50 or 100 yards. Gold Dot or another expanding load can sometimes get you some expansion out to 150-200.

I have a hard time envisioning a defense scenario outside the performance window of 62gr Gold Dot from my 11.5" gun. If you are just ringing steel or punching paper, that doesn't matter anyway.

[littlejerry]

Hitting at distance isn't a problem with short barrels, assuming you know your dope/drops... Terminal ballistic performance does drop off quite a bit though, and makes ammunition selection more critical. I can rock the 300 yard gong all day, even with irons on my 11.5"... but the terminal performance of 55gr ball at that distance would be a lot less than what you'd see at 50 or 100 yards. Gold Dot or another expanding load can sometimes get you some expansion out to 150-200.

I have a hard time envisioning a defense scenario outside the performance window of 62gr Gold Dot from my 11.5" gun. If you are just ringing steel or punching paper, that doesn't matter anyway.

Yeah, purely ringing steel. Most Run n Gun matches have a longish stage and get out to 400-600 yards depending on the venue. If I build up a 12.5" gun I'd like for it to be useful in those matches. I'll keep a 16" rifle for DMR matches

[karmapolice]

dot and lpvo eleven point fives

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92434313_2838818666194422_9222007014643728384_o.jp g?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=UNEdK7Jmy_cAX9MCBls&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=1d7e1efa4e1873155308d893f7446840&oe=5EACEF30

[rob_s]

11 years ago. Note that high tech forward sling connection.

51259

[awp_101]

Assembled the lower last night and mocked up the complete upper, I'll be going with a 9mm specific upper when it gets here:
51302

QC10 10.5" 9mm barrel
Unknown HG from arfcom EE
Stern Defense bolt
Aero lower with CMMG guts and either a PSA or ALG FCG
SBA3(?) brace and PWS H3 buffer
Magpul grip (maybe a MOE SL?)

Stripped 9mm upper and a 9mm birdcage are ordered, just waiting on them to arrive.

I started fitting the one of the Endomag conversions last night but I don't have a warm, fuzzy about it yet but that's for another thread.

[ReverendMeat]

11.5 "firearm." Sionics reduced gas port barrel on Sionics A5 lower. Specwar 762 not pictured

51529

[Wake27]

Yeah, purely ringing steel. Most Run n Gun matches have a longish stage and get out to 400-600 yards depending on the venue. If I build up a 12.5" gun I'd like for it to be useful in those matches. I'll keep a 16" rifle for DMR matches

I’d take a look at specific barrels for that - Hodge or Triarc probably. The latter has several reports of pushing rounds faster than standard uppers of comparable barrel length and while I don’t know if I’ve seen that from Hodge, I wouldn’t be surprised based on all of the magic voodoo that supposedly goes into those.

I just got a MK18 upper mostly because of the PDW thread. A Triarc 12.5 mid may be my next one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TGS]

Daniel Defense Mk18
DDM4 9" rail
Aimpoint H2 on Scalarworks Mount. I have a Vortex 3x Mag that fits nicely behind the RDS.
Troy BUIS
Streamlight RM1 tucked up snugly in the 1 O'Clock position using an American Defense Manufacturing offset scout mount
Geissele SSA
BCM grip and AFG
SBA3 with LAW Gen 3 folder

between the lighter rail, Streamlight and LAW, it balances out nicely....right at the mag well.

51533

[Caballoflaco]

Daniel Defense Mk18
DDM4 9" rail
Aimpoint H2 on Scalarworks Mount. I have a Vortex 3x Mag that fits nicely behind the RDS.
Troy BUIS
Streamlight RM1 tucked up snugly in the 1 O'Clock position using an American Defense Manufacturing offset scout mount
Geissele SSA
BCM grip and AFG
SBA3 with LAW Gen 3 folder

between the lighter rail, Streamlight and LAW, it balances out nicely....right at the mag well.

51533

Do you know the oal of that with the stock folded?

[TGS]

Do you know the oal of that with the stock folded?

Yes sir, just measured to double check.

20" on the dot with the DD birdcage. Barely squeezes into a VertX Gamut (20" backpack) as detailed in the PDW thread.

Add or subtract appropriately for your muzzle device of choice. This one will be getting a YHM QD flash hider when the Form 4 paperwork comes back.

:D

ETA: The extremely tight fit of the light allows it to slide into the laptop compartment of the VertX a-ok, no problem. It's so tight that it can't be mounted further forward because of interference with the front sight.

When the YHM Turbo K is released to me, I might put a Haley Strategic Thorntail scout mount on there to get it up further. IDK. It works really well right now.

[Clusterfrack]

Home defense SBR: BCM 11.5” lightweight fluted, SiCo Omega, Larue MBT trigger, Trijicon MRO.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200409/cb3e16c78bc6706d8258aa58e5237d3a.jpg

[ASH556]

Home defense SBR: BCM 11.5” lightweight fluted, SiCo Omega, Larue MBT trigger, Trijicon MRO.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200409/cb3e16c78bc6706d8258aa58e5237d3a.jpg

Would you mind talking a little bit about your storage setup there? Is that bolt locked to the rear with chamber flag in? So upon deployment you rip out the chamber flag and either pull the charging handle or slap the bolt release?

[Clusterfrack]

Would you mind talking a little bit about your storage setup there? Is that bolt locked to the rear with chamber flag in? So upon deployment you rip out the chamber flag and either pull the charging handle or slap the bolt release?

That's a Brownells Safe-Port. It has a spring that ejects the device when you charge the gun.
https://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/training-safety-gear/chamber-safety-flags/brownells-safe-port-sku084000194-21481-47150.aspx

I especially like it for backcountry use because my buddies can easily see that the gun is safe.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200406/88de03ad8f7352b27da2e045a6d22db3.jpg

[BobM]

That's a Brownells Safe-Port. It has a spring that ejects the device when you charge the gun.
https://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/training-safety-gear/chamber-safety-flags/brownells-safe-port-sku084000194-21481-47150.aspx

I especially like it for backcountry use because my buddies can easily see that the gun is safe.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200406/88de03ad8f7352b27da2e045a6d22db3.jpg

We’ve used the Safeports for years in the patrol rifles after I saw them at an armorer school. Back when the rifles were assigned to the car and not the officer, I had found one in a rack with a chambered round. The Safeport is a good solution to that problem

[Clusterfrack]

We’ve used the Safeports for years in the patrol rifles after I saw them at an armorer school. Back when the rifles were assigned to the car and not the officer, I had found one in a rack with a chambered round. The Safeport is a good solution to that problem

I’ve got plenty of stories like that, and have come to hate it when self-supervised safety procedures are described as “big boy rules”. One big boy shot the dashboard and engine of his own vehicle from the hatch area with a .308. This happened right next to me. Having a visible way to show safe is a good idea when there are lots of people doing their own thing.

[Doc_Glock]

Home defense SBR: BCM 11.5” lightweight fluted, SiCo Omega, Larue MBT trigger, Trijicon MRO.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200409/cb3e16c78bc6706d8258aa58e5237d3a.jpg

Amen to that.

51629

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I’ve got plenty of stories like that, and have come to hate it when self-supervised safety procedures are described as “big boy rules”. One big boy shot the dashboard and engine of his own vehicle from the hatch area with a .308. This happened right next to me. Having a visible way to show safe is a good idea when there are lots of people doing their own thing.

Cluster as a long time 3G shooter I've used chamber flags for yrs. so I'm curious about your thoughts on the Safe-Ports vs. chamber flags?

[Clusterfrack]

Cluster as a long time 3G shooter I've used chamber flags for yrs. so I'm curious about your thoughts on the Safe-Ports vs. chamber flags?

I prefer a chamber flag that goes into the chamber. I’m not a fan of random things that just keep the bolt open. And for bolt guns, just having the bolt lifted is not a good safety procedure.

The Safe-Port is more of a ‘cruiser ready’ device. I don’t see any advantage over a regular chamber flag for gun games. For keeping a gun ready to go, it’s vastly superior.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I prefer a chamber flag that goes into the chamber. I’m not a fan of random things that just keep the bolt open. And for bolt guns, just having the bolt lifted is not a good safety procedure.

The Safe-Port is more of a ‘cruiser ready’ device. I don’t see any advantage over a regular chamber flag for gun games. For keeping a gun ready to go, it’s vastly superior.

Total agreement on a flag that inserts into the chamber, have them for all my RFs & SGs, even have a few for pistols

Not a bolt gun guy but also agreed w/ your line of thinking there & the crusier ready analogy frames it well.

[Wake27]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200410/df5ba4192e3bbeda0d9a503467da7310.jpg

The coloring on the BCG doesn’t look as odd in person and this is only about half way done. Most of the big stuff is there aside from a SureFire though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Casual Friday]

That's a Brownells Safe-Port. It has a spring that ejects the device when you charge the gun.
https://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/training-safety-gear/chamber-safety-flags/brownells-safe-port-sku084000194-21481-47150.aspx

I especially like it for backcountry use because my buddies can easily see that the gun is safe.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200406/88de03ad8f7352b27da2e045a6d22db3.jpg

I was today years old when I found out this product exists.

[Poconnor]

My newest pistol. A PSA 11.5 upper and lower. I found the ACOG when I was cleaning up my garage. I actually forgot I had it. I think I bought the ACOG in 2002. The tritium is dead but glass looks good in the daylight. I just need to mount a white light. 51893

[snow white]

51892
Switched a few things around, LPVO and ke arms trigger now live with this rifle. The red dot that was on this rifle will be going on a rifle for my wife.

[Wake27]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200416/1cca2e16a1b5f98fa6ff2292e7eff23b.jpg

Getting closer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wake27]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200416/1cca2e16a1b5f98fa6ff2292e7eff23b.jpg

Getting closer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Forgot you can't edit on this forum after a while.

I have an EXPS on another rifle that I'll probably trade optics with. I want to put a Razor on that one anyway so the Crossfire makes a better place holder there. Aside from that, I need FCD's new ABC/R whenever it comes out and over Memorial Day I'll buy an SD-C and ACH/GOV charging handle and that should be it. Though I have wanted to get a complete rifle cerakoted for years, and for whatever reason I'd want it to be this one so maybe I'll do that at some point.

Forgot to mention, the IonBond BCG did clash too much with all of the other shades of tan so I pulled it out. Instead I have a nitrided carrier than came in my KAC mod 2 as a spare since I replaced it with a sandcutter and ordered an LMT e-bolt and firing pin and the FCD/SOTAR nitrided cam pin. And I have an M300 coming in tomorrow with an Arisaka pic mount and the SR07 and tail cap should be here Friday.

[awp_101]

Is anyone running a 12.5” Grendel? The siren song of the 6.5 is trying to drown out the howls of the .300 BLK.

[jandbj]

Is anyone running a 12.5” Grendel? The siren song of the 6.5 is trying to drown out the howls of the .300 BLK.

Just ordered a 12” Grendel upper from combat armory yesterday.
http://www.combatarmory.com/ar-15-6-5-grendel-type-2-13-length-1-8-twist-w-12-slim-m-lok-handguard-no-assembly-required/
Figured I’ll give it a go on my SBR lower.

[TGS]

9 Hole Reviews builds a clone-ey Delta Commando rifle from the early 90s. He lays it on heavy and somber in the beginning:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5S-puO7_A

[Nephrology]

Cross posting from the long guns gallery... El Cheapo normally lives on a PSA pistol lower I keep around for purposes of legal flexibility.

Speaking of short guns....

El Cheapo on one of my SBR lowers. Newly featuring my ghetto WML solution: $25 VTAC ring mount for a Streamlight Protac 2L-X that I bought years ago and had been collecting dust. Shimmed with electrical tape per recommendations from HCM and others. We'll see if it holds up under live fire but I would be amused if it did. I think together the entire upper cost ~$560, inclusive of everything except for the light itself (only because I can't remember how much it cost..)

https://i.imgur.com/DkV0ffP.jpg?1

The original Aero upper is pending shipment to a gunsmith to have the GB pinned, so it's living on my pistol lower for now.

[helothar]

Cross posting from the long guns gallery... El Cheapo normally lives on a PSA pistol lower I keep around for purposes of legal flexibility.Is that the plastic vtac mount? If so is the mount shimmed with tape or the light?

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[Nephrology]

Is that the plastic vtac mount? If so is the mount shimmed with tape or the light?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Yes, and the light is shimmed, not the mount. Inner light diameter per Streamlight is ~0.91; VTAC mount is for 1" lights. We'll see how it works.

[Beat Trash]

Back in the day, I’d use a VTAC amount with a Surefire handheld light. A couple turns of black electricians tape on the body of the light and you were good to go with 80 lumens of blinding light!

[SecondsCount]

Is anyone running a 12.5” Grendel? The siren song of the 6.5 is trying to drown out the howls of the .300 BLK.

I own neither, but I would own a Grendel long before a 300BLK. 300BLK does one thing well, the 6.5G does many more things.

[Wake27]

I was all excited to post my new 12.5 hodge barrel’d upper but then usps delayed it in less than 12 hours because they suck. That shit better come tomorrow.


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[Grey]

Haha, I hear you on the delays, been refreshing shipping pages multiple times a day which is pointless.

Debating whether I need a short 5.56 upper...

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[Nephrology]

Debating whether I need a short 5.56 upper...

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Yes

[Grey]

YesI swear it's a conspiracy to see how much money yall can talk me into spending...

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Nephrology]

I swear it's a conspiracy to see how much money yall can talk me into spending...

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Can neither confirm nor deny

[awp_101]

I own neither, but I would own a Grendel long before a 300BLK. 300BLK does one thing well, the 6.5G does many more things.
I got hooked on 6.5 with a Swede 96 so the Grendel has a certain appeal already.

[DamonL]

Debating whether I need a short 5.56 upper...



I swear it's a conspiracy to see how much money yall can talk me into spending...




A short barrel upper is a better suppressor host if you want to keep overall length down. I hope that helps.

[Grey]

A short barrel upper is a better suppressor host if you want to keep overall length down. I hope that helps.

If I could give you a thumbs down I would :P...

[awp_101]

If I could give you a thumbs down I would :P...

https://i.imgur.com/nS5HRWe.jpg

Just doing my part to help...;)

[MistWolf]

...Debating whether I need a short 5.56 upper...

You don't. You want one and by God, this is America!

[awp_101]

9 Hole Reviews builds a clone-ey Delta Commando rifle from the early 90s. He lays it on heavy and somber in the beginning:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5S-puO7_A

Thanks, I've never seen any of their stuff before. I wound up spending an hour or so watching and now there's another channel I'm following.

[Grey]

I'm pretty hot for KAC but I am tempted to try out Centurion, I also want a mini mk 12...

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[Vandal320]

Thanks, I've never seen any of their stuff before. I wound up spending an hour or so watching and now there's another channel I'm following.
Check out their company Slate Black Industries. They are based out of Houston, so their Texans, or at least go here as quick as they could!:cool:

https://www.slateblackindustries.com/

[TGS]

I'm pretty hot for KAC but I am tempted to try out Centurion, I also want a mini mk 12...

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Centurion only has the Recce barrels in midlength gas systems, so you'd have to go elsewhere for a barrel if you want to go shorter than 14.5".

An AEM-5 will fit an 11.5" barrel using a low-pro gas block (12.5" needed for a FSB, or you can use an AEM-4 on an 11.5" FSB). ADCO is familiar and can do the work....Ron Allen will also make a custom collar for your barrel if it's not cut to the SPR or M4 spec (the two standard collars he makes).

[Grey]

Centurion only has the Recce barrels in midlength gas systems, so you'd have to go elsewhere for a barrel if you want to go shorter than 14.5".

An AEM-5 will fit an 11.5" barrel using a low-pro gas block (12.5" needed for a FSB, or you can use an AEM-4 on an 11.5" FSB). ADCO is familiar and can do the work....Ron Allen will also make a custom collar for your barrel if it's not cut to the SPR or M4 spec (the two standard collars he makes).

Centurion now has an option for a CM4 upper and has options for shorter barrels.

https://www.centurionarms.com/product-p/cm4upper.htm

I've heard nothing but good things about CA so tempted to give them a shot. They might be be KAC cool :)

[TGS]

Centurion now has an option for a CM4 upper and has options for shorter barrels.

https://www.centurionarms.com/product-p/cm4upper.htm

I've heard nothing but good things about CA so tempted to give them a shot. They might be be KAC cool :)

Yeah but you said you wanted a mini-Mk12.

Those are just regular Gov't profile CMV barrels. Not heavier SS match barrels.

[CoGT3]

Doesn’t necessarily have to be heavy SS. 12.5 Criterion CORE profile recent build for me by Citizen Arms. Barrels even chrome lined. Going to play with a 3x magnifier first then try LVPO.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/0bb1f9aa0d97a541f07f4aa6e39aba5c.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/f950cf3932460e35996b83fe584c1afd.jpg


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[TGS]

Alright, I guess "Mini Mk12" means something different to me, given the characteristics/purpose and goals of a Mk12. What you guys are talking about is just a random garden-variety frankenstein SBR/pistol AR. I would never look at that gun and think, "Oh cool, that's like a mini Mk12".

And holy fucking length of pull, batman.

[EPF]

Doesn’t necessarily have to be heavy SS. 12.5 Criterion CORE profile recent build for me by Citizen Arms. Barrels even chrome lined. Going to play with a 3x magnifier first then try LVPO.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/0bb1f9aa0d97a541f07f4aa6e39aba5c.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/f950cf3932460e35996b83fe584c1afd.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That is a sweet upper. If I ever was going to have a custom built, it would be CA.

[CoGT3]

Alright, I guess "Mini Mk12" means something different to me, given the characteristics/purpose and goals of a Mk12. What you guys are talking about is just a random garden-variety frankenstein SBR/pistol AR. I would never look at that gun and think, "Oh cool, that's like a mini Mk12".

And holy fucking length of pull, batman.

Yep, 6’4” with long arms and don’t do the nose to CH thing.

I have a second lower that is in the process of getting SBR’d. Upper will mostly live on that lower with a real stock. Pistol lower/folder is really for hurricanes evacuation, don’t want to deal with NFA across state lines, throw in a nondescript backpack option.

I have a second upper being built with a pinned 13.9 barrel, otherwise same setup. Will get my Razor 1-6 for now. Have ordered a Vortex 1-10 but they are back ordered probably through the end of the year. When here, 1-10 goes on 13.9 upper and 1-6 onto 12.5. If 1-10 lives up to the hype, 12.5 will eventually get a 1-10. At that point should be able to pull off SBR or mini Mk12.


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[CoGT3]

That is a sweet upper. If I ever was going to have a custom built, it would be CA.

If you have the thought, act upon it. Price was far more reasonable than I ever would have expected. Wait can be long but I won’t be buying off the shelf uppers again. Steve builds exactly what you want as long as it will meet his reliability and accuracy standards. True pleasure to deal with.



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[Grey]

Yeah but you said you wanted a mini-Mk12.

Those are just regular Gov't profile CMV barrels. Not heavier SS match barrels.

Gotcha! Yeah, I need a short upper and a mini Mk12. Sigh, so many toys to get...

[HCM]

Check out their company Slate Black Industries. They are based out of Houston, so their Texans, or at least go here as quick as they could!:cool:

https://www.slateblackindustries.com/

Texas is both a place and a state of mind bordering on religion. Historically, Converts are the most fervent believers.

[Wake27]

Yep, 6’4” with long arms and don’t do the nose to CH thing.

I have a second lower that is in the process of getting SBR’d. Upper will mostly live on that lower with a real stock. Pistol lower/folder is really for hurricanes evacuation, don’t want to deal with NFA across state lines, throw in a nondescript backpack option.

I have a second upper being built with a pinned 13.9 barrel, otherwise same setup. Will get my Razor 1-6 for now. Have ordered a Vortex 1-10 but they are back ordered probably through the end of the year. When here, 1-10 goes on 13.9 upper and 1-6 onto 12.5. If 1-10 lives up to the hype, 12.5 will eventually get a 1-10. At that point should be able to pull off SBR or mini Mk12.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I don’t remember where I’ve seen your stuff but we have similar ideas, except I’m swapping the Razors. My custom built hodge/FCD 12.5 upper will hopefully be here Monday and will get the new 1-10. My 14.5 SR15 Mod2 upper will keep the 1-6. Seems backwards but the 12.5 will likely be primary unless I go somewhere that I can’t take an SBR or pistol, so it makes sense to have the most capable optic on it even with a slightly shorter barrel. I’m getting real anxious about getting the new upper in to try the Hodge barrel. I just shot this target a few hours ago.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/055922e0aea87b840c774c65cac522cb.jpg


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[dcf1981]

I have a couple of uppers built by Steve/Citizen Arms and they all shoot Sub-MOA and are great.

[awp_101]

Check out their company Slate Black Industries. They are based out of Houston, so their Texans, or at least go here as quick as they could!:cool:

https://www.slateblackindustries.com/
I thought that might be them. I have a feeling I'm going to end up with one of their grip and stop bundles eventually. Especially if I see the black back in stock.

[Caballoflaco]

I thought that might be them. I have a feeling I'm going to end up with one of their grip and stop bundles eventually. Especially if I see the black back in stock.

They’re the guys from the 9hole reviews channel on YouTube. In a world of gun derp it’s always good to support the guys who put out good content and products.

ETA: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCsrKsXEAqCbZyVrCibkgpwQ

[Outlier]

Doesn’t necessarily have to be heavy SS. 12.5 Criterion CORE profile recent build for me by Citizen Arms. Barrels even chrome lined. Going to play with a 3x magnifier first then try LVPO.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/0bb1f9aa0d97a541f07f4aa6e39aba5c.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/f950cf3932460e35996b83fe584c1afd.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Can I infer that you are happy with the Criterion CORE series barrel? I am looking at a 11.5" model for a pistol build.

[CoGT3]

So far, so good. Clearly it is accurate in the hands of a good shooter like Steve from CA. I’ve only had a chance to shoot some quick groups with a red dot at 50 and groups where respectable for me.

It seems to do what Criterion says it would do. Balance is moved back toward the breech. This upper with the same can, light, front sight etc balances more toward the middle than my 10.5 SBR with the same equipment attached. Feels very handy even with the weight of the can being pushed further out.

Regarding better hear tolerance I didn’t notice groups opening up with time. Zeroed and shot 100 rounds pretty rapidly and best group was second to last. No significant break between firing strings.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200519/ba3a52bb85d5c682271245fa4658b1c7.pnghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200519/f4608dd19923f73f4a7bff9fcd0a7e30.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[ASH556]

..."And the two shall become one."

https://i.imgur.com/6DykdKcl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/teGAkatl.jpg

[Colt191145lover]

My Centurion arms 12.5 build starts...

54266

[Mike C]

Colt191145lover that is a great looking barrel, notched for index and pinned, does it also have set screws? I dig it, the machining and profile looks excellent as well from what I can tell. What does the barrel weigh?

[Colt191145lover]

Colt191145lover that is a great looking barrel, notched for index and pinned, does it also have set screws? I dig it, the machining and profile looks excellent as well from what I can tell. What does the barrel weigh?


I had Centurion Arms do their pinned low profile gas block, the indexing notch is a nice touch. The barrel is dimpled for a set screw style gas block if one wants to go that route . I had them headspace the bolt for me as well.
I do not have scale right at the moment but they list the barrel wight at 1lb 5.5oz stripped

[Mike C]

Colt191145lover nice touches for sure. I'd love to know how it shoots for you when you know. Thank you for answering my question.

[ASH556]

Interesting to see Centurion pinning on top of the barrel. DD used to do that back in the day and switched to bottom saying for reasons having to do with not driving a wedge (tapered pin) that distances the gas port from its manifold. Probably small semantics and I'm sure it'll work fine...just interesting.

[ReverendMeat]

My Centurion arms 12.5 build starts...

54266

Nice, but curious what you're planning on with this build that you couldn't have ordered a complete upper from Centurion and cut out all the fuss

[TGS]

Interesting to see Centurion pinning on top of the barrel. DD used to do that back in the day and switched to bottom saying for reasons having to do with not driving a wedge (tapered pin) that distances the gas port from its manifold. Probably small semantics and I'm sure it'll work fine...just interesting.

That's probably why my Centurion barrel presents with the fouling as pictured below. It short stroked on me even with 5.56 Mk262, but they said that the fouling isn't indicative of an issue and the gas block was fine. According to Centurion, my midlength 16" barrel had a gas port of .075" and they opened it to .078" to make it function reliably. I haven't been able to get to the range to verify.

I'm honestly not a fan of a gas block that is apparently leaky, as neither my DD, BCM, ADCO-frankengun, nor MSSR-build with a JP-clamp on gas block display similar fouling that is evidence gas is leaking....but, I figured if it works then it works, and maybe I don't know what I don't know.

54329

[Colt191145lover]

Nice, but curious what you're planning on with this build that you couldn't have ordered a complete upper from Centurion and cut out all the fuss

I'm going to do a Triarc Wedgelock 11.5 handguard and wanted a upper that was compatable with the indexing pin. SOLGW upper is what I'm using for that along with one of their lowers. If it weren't for that I would have just gone with a complete upper from Centurion Arms.

[rainman]

I'm going to do a Triarc Wedgelock 11.5 handguard and wanted a upper that was compatable with the indexing pin. SOLGW upper is what I'm using for that along with one of their lowers. If it weren't for that I would have just gone with a complete upper from Centurion Arms.

Sounds like a very interesting build. Looking forward to seeing results and how it shoots. Please keep us updated.


-Rainman

[ASH556]

That's probably why my Centurion barrel presents with the fouling as pictured below. It short stroked on me even with 5.56 Mk262, but they said that the fouling isn't indicative of an issue and the gas block was fine. According to Centurion, my midlength 16" barrel had a gas port of .075" and they opened it to .078" to make it function reliably. I haven't been able to get to the range to verify.

I'm honestly not a fan of a gas block that is apparently leaky, as neither my DD, BCM, ADCO-frankengun, nor MSSR-build with a JP-clamp on gas block display similar fouling that is evidence gas is leaking....but, I figured if it works then it works, and maybe I don't know what I don't know.

54329

Yeah, that’s no bueno. My notes indicate .070 is appropriate for 16” mid-gas. .075 is more than enough, especially with 5.56 pressure ammo. That’s frustrating man. I bet it’s accurate though.

[rob_s]

My Centurion arms 12.5 build starts...

54266


Interesting to see Centurion pinning on top of the barrel. DD used to do that back in the day and switched to bottom saying for reasons having to do with not driving a wedge (tapered pin) that distances the gas port from its manifold. Probably small semantics and I'm sure it'll work fine...just interesting.


That's probably why my Centurion barrel presents with the fouling as pictured below. It short stroked on me even with 5.56 Mk262, but they said that the fouling isn't indicative of an issue and the gas block was fine. According to Centurion, my midlength 16" barrel had a gas port of .075" and they opened it to .078" to make it function reliably. I haven't been able to get to the range to verify.

I'm honestly not a fan of a gas block that is apparently leaky, as neither my DD, BCM, ADCO-frankengun, nor MSSR-build with a JP-clamp on gas block display similar fouling that is evidence gas is leaking....but, I figured if it works then it works, and maybe I don't know what I don't know.

54329


Yeah, that’s no bueno. My notes indicate .070 is appropriate for 16” mid-gas. .075 is more than enough, especially with 5.56 pressure ammo. That’s frustrating man. I bet it’s accurate though.

I have been a fan of Centurion since they opened their doors and I’m a proponent of pinning gas blocks, but I would not want a gas block pinned on top for the reasons stated, and the pics and service history seem to confirm then concern.

Opening up the port *may* get you to better reliability but it’s clear that you’re losing gas, which means that opening the port is just a way to (over) compensate. Like Bushmaster shipping guns with gaping ports back in the day.

One benefit of the taper pins found on the original front sight bases is that pressure pulling the inside-top of the hole in the gas block down tight against the hole on the top of the barrel. Hell, that may have even been part of the design intent or come from various design iterations.

[Caballoflaco]

I’ve been pondering one of Centurion’s 10.3 bbls for a pistol upper and it looks if I do that it would be best to get a pinned FSB and just dremel it myself versus getting their gas block. Thanks for posting that TGS.

[ASH556]

I’ve been pondering one of Centurion’s 10.3 bbls for a pistol upper and it looks if I do that it would be best to get a pinned FSB and just dremel it myself versus getting their gas block. Thanks for posting that TGS.

Hacksaw, Bench Grinder, then finish with a sanding drum on the Dremel. It's faster ;)

https://i.imgur.com/acyWHHBl.jpg

[awp_101]

Finally made it to the range yesterday and got to try out the 2 pistols I've been working on.

12.5" BK Firearms 5.56, Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6, ADM QD mount, BCM lower w/SBA3
54350

Between zeroing and function testing, I only put 20 through it but I like the feel so far. I'm going to swap out the hand stop for something else and the ejection was between 2 and 3 o'clock. I've got a 9mm buffer that was going to be used in the lower I was originally going to use for the 9mm build so I might try that. Ammo was Hornady Frontier 62gr if that makes a difference.

Same lower, 10.5" QC10 9mm barrel, unknown handguard from arfcom, Stern Defense bolt, Mean Arms Endomag magazine conversion
54351

Not sure what optic I'm going to run on the 9mm yet. Probably a cheap inexpensive dot.

I was very surprised at how well the mag conversions worked and my backup plan of a Hahn block and Colt mags isn't as probable as I thought it was going to be. I left them in their standard 10 round version so I only put 20-25 of 115gr and 150gr through both mags since this was just a function check before deciding where I want to go with the rest of the build but. I'd like to see a version that uses 20 round PMags...

[PearTree]

Sample size of one but my complete build centurion has the gas block pinned on the bottom.

[awp_101]

Hacksaw, Bench Grinder, then finish with a sanding drum on the Dremel. It's faster ;)

https://i.imgur.com/acyWHHBl.jpg

Is that a cut down FSB?

[rob_s]

Hacksaw, Bench Grinder, then finish with a sanding drum on the Dremel. It's faster ;)

https://i.imgur.com/acyWHHBl.jpg

IMO this is still the A-answer, but it isn't always an option for folks that *need* a boutique barrel (although maybe that's a reason not to get a Starbucks barrel to begin with...). Although it looks like the Centurion barrels can be ordered with the "A-frame" double-pinned (hopefully taper pinned) as an option.
https://www.centurionarms.com/hammer-forged-barrel-midlength-p/hfb-lw-ml.htm

[TGS]

I’ve been pondering one of Centurion’s 10.3 bbls for a pistol upper and it looks if I do that it would be best to get a pinned FSB and just dremel it myself versus getting their gas block. Thanks for posting that TGS.

You're welcome. Personally I'd go elsewhere for the 10.3 even without knowing this gas block shenanigans. Centurion's claim to fame, from my POV, is the Mk12/Recce guns and their Crane-spec chamber.

[ASH556]

Is that a cut down FSB?

Yes sir.

[awp_101]

Thanks, that's an option I always forget about...

[ASH556]

IMO this is still the A-answer, but it isn't always an option for folks that *need* a boutique barrel (although maybe that's a reason not to get a Starbucks barrel to begin with...). Although it looks like the Centurion barrels can be ordered with the "A-frame" double-pinned (hopefully taper pinned) as an option.
https://www.centurionarms.com/hammer-forged-barrel-midlength-p/hfb-lw-ml.htm

I agree with you here. Availability of the barrel with factory-installed FSB is a huge deciding factor for me when I choose barrels.

I guess my selection critera for barrels is something like this:
1. Available with factory-installed FSB
2. Known-good gas port size (the actual number, not just anecdotal evidence).
3. Profile (because I shoot with suppressors and pencil barrels aren't great for that)
4. Everything else.

Anymore I just use Colts. They shoot at or below MOA using my preferred load (62gr Gold Dot) and I never wonder or worry about anything else (over-gassing, chamber spec, etc).

If you have a high mag scope and only ever shoot match-grade ammo, sure an SS barrel can make sense, but, when you can do stuff like this with chrome-lined barrels, I don't see much point otherwise.

14.5" Colt barrel, 3.5X ACOG Chevron Reticle, 10 shots @ 100yds, 62gr Gold Dot

https://i.imgur.com/oc7RMcRl.png

Different Colt 14.5" barrel, 3.5X ACOG with Horseshoe reticle (coarser aiming point), 10 shots @ 100yds, 62gr Gold Dot

https://i.imgur.com/NIIqp2kl.png

10.3" Colt Barrel, 4MOA Aimpoint T1, no magnification, 10 shots @ 100yds, 62gr Gold Dot. It's hard to read, but says 1.94 MOA. Soon I'll get it out with the ACOG and see what can be done.

https://i.imgur.com/nUNPB5ul.png

[Caballoflaco]

You're welcome. Personally I'd go elsewhere for the 10.3 even without knowing this gas block shenanigans. Centurion's claim to fame, from my POV, is the Mk12/Recce guns and their Crane-spec chamber.

Who would you recommend? I like that they spec the thicker chrome lining, taper bore and proper crane-spec gas port iirc .070.

[TGS]

Who would you recommend? I like that they spec the thicker chrome lining, taper bore and proper crane-spec gas port iirc .070.

If you're after all those facets then I guess you're spending money on Centurion.

[ASH556]

If you're after all those facets then I guess you're spending money on Centurion.

Literally laughing out loud in my office reading this and co-workers are looking at me strangely through my window. ;)

[Casual Friday]

Speaking of Centurion. My 6933 got a glow up. A few weeks ago, I went through my spare parts and put a whole bunch of stocks, grips, handguards, barrels I'm never gonna use, etc on TacSwap. I took the money and bought the Aimpoint, the Centurion C4 rail, and 10 Surefeed 20 round mags. The C4 rail is simply beautiful and mounts on the factory barrel nut.

54360

[awp_101]

Has Triarc been brought up yet? I know a guy in the 1911 industry who has recommended them but he has a relationship with them as his company is providing components for Triarc 1911s and they are helping with a possible AR release for his company.

I pass their retail location going to and from my range but I've never stopped in.

[SecondsCount]

Finally made it to the range yesterday and got to try out the 2 pistols I've been working on.

.....

Not sure what optic I'm going to run on the 9mm yet. Probably a cheap inexpensive dot.

...

Choose wisely.

My son gave me a Chinese MRO knockoff and I put it on my 9mm PCC. It started losing zero after about 200 rounds and won't hold at all now. I think the recoil of a blowback system is a little hard on them.

[awp_101]

Choose wisely.

My son gave me a Chinese MRO knockoff and I put it on my 9mm PCC. It started losing zero after about 200 rounds and won't hold at all now. I think the recoil of a blowback system is a little hard on them.

True. I'm thinking either a Primary Arms or Holosun for the warranty.

[Colt191145lover]

I did not know about the potential issues of the as block being pinned like that. I guess if this does not work properly I will explore other options.

[rob_s]

Looks like Centurion only offers stripped barrels in 14.5" and 16" options?

So keeping with the idea of this thread, I can't get a >13" barrel with a pinned FSB from them unless it comes on an upper.

[PearTree]

Looks like Centurion only offers stripped barrels in 14.5" and 16" options?

So keeping with the idea of this thread, I can't get a >13" barrel with a pinned FSB from them unless it comes on an upper.

https://www.centurionarms.com/hammer-forged-barrel-carbine-p/hfb-lw-car.htm

They offer 10.3 and 12.5 carbine length. I know others have called and they will do 12.5 mid length as well.

[spelingmastir]

Sample size of one but my complete build centurion has the gas block pinned on the bottom.

When did you get yours and what configuration did you get?

[rob_s]

https://www.centurionarms.com/hammer-forged-barrel-carbine-p/hfb-lw-car.htm

They offer 10.3 and 12.5 carbine length. I know others have called and they will do 12.5 mid length as well.

Ah there you go. I wasn't understanding their navigation. I couldn't find their 12.0 C4 rail for the same reason.

[PearTree]

When did you get yours and what configuration did you get?

February or August of last year. I posted a little in this thread. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?34971-Centurion-Arms-CM4-complete-rifles

I forgot to update it but it works well for me. I have a few thousand rounds through the gun, no malfunctions to date with pmags.

[navyman8903]

Just finished putting this together today; 11.5" pistol with Geissele, Surefire, Trijicon, Magpul & SB Tactical. Can't wait to take it out.

https://imgur.com/TSfY14u.jpg

Hey man, question for you. I finally got to shoot mine. Other than the oppressive ring, are you noticing it breaks up and to the right when shooting? Mine is doing it. Not to the point where I can't correct it for follow up shots but reviewing the video I can see it clearly. Also my friends who have shot it had the same feedback. I feel like it is perfectly gassed and will change the muzzle device out for a surefire CTN. The SR16 definitely kicks more stuff out of the front of the muzzle.

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[navyman8903]

51892
Switched a few things around, LPVO and ke arms trigger now live with this rifle. The red dot that was on this rifle will be going on a rifle for my wife.

That P4Xi is the truth, I finally got to test it out at 312 yards. 200 yards was the limitation at my home range. I really like it. Much more capable than you'd think a 1-4 at that price range should be. Nice clear glass too, REAL edge to edge clarity.

[Casual Friday]

This is relevant to the thread because I was zeroing my 11.5". I discovered a neat little hack this morning that made re-zeroing the Magpul MBUS Pro rear sight a bit easier. The MBUS Pro is my favorite rear BUIS for it's small low profile and durability. The knob for adjusting the windage on them can be a PITA to turn though, it's quite small and hard to get your fingers around(phrasing). I had my Aimpoint tool out as well and happened to notice that the little nubbins on the Aimpoint tool look similar in size and spacing to the holes on the opposite side of the adjustment knob on the rear sight. It's a perfect fit and made the adjustments easier, especially while fine tuning the zero and only wanting to move one or two clicks at a time. I'm probably not the first one to figure this out, but I googled it and didn't find anything.

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[snow white]

That P4Xi is the truth, I finally got to test it out at 312 yards. 200 yards was the limitation at my home range. I really like it. Much more capable than you'd think a 1-4 at that price range should be. Nice clear glass too, REAL edge to edge clarity.

I've been very impressed with it so far. i have a primary to secondary transition class this weekend as well as a Jared reston two day gunfighter class next month. We will see how it treats me, I dont expect any issue.

[navyman8903]

I've been very impressed with it so far. i have a primary to secondary transition class this weekend as well as a Jared reston two day gunfighter class next month. We will see how it treats me, I dont expect any issue.

I'm looking into taking some of his classes in the future.

[rca90gsx]

How do you like the BK upper? I am debating on on of their DRP 300BO barrels.
Thanks!


Finally made it to the range yesterday and got to try out the 2 pistols I've been working on.

12.5" BK Firearms 5.56, Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6, ADM QD mount, BCM lower w/SBA3
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Between zeroing and function testing, I only put 20 through it but I like the feel so far. I'm going to swap out the hand stop for something else and the ejection was between 2 and 3 o'clock. I've got a 9mm buffer that was going to be used in the lower I was originally going to use for the 9mm build so I might try that. Ammo was Hornady Frontier 62gr if that makes a difference.

Same lower, 10.5" QC10 9mm barrel, unknown handguard from arfcom, Stern Defense bolt, Mean Arms Endomag magazine conversion
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Not sure what optic I'm going to run on the 9mm yet. Probably a cheap inexpensive dot.

I was very surprised at how well the mag conversions worked and my backup plan of a Hahn block and Colt mags isn't as probable as I thought it was going to be. I left them in their standard 10 round version so I only put 20-25 of 115gr and 150gr through both mags since this was just a function check before deciding where I want to go with the rest of the build but. I'd like to see a version that uses 20 round PMags...

[HCM]

Has Triarc been brought up yet? I know a guy in the 1911 industry who has recommended them but he has a relationship with them as his company is providing components for Triarc 1911s and they are helping with a possible AR release for his company.

I pass their retail location going to and from my range but I've never stopped in.

They build good guns, a bit pricey in my opinion. They started as a barrel company. Their barresl use a proprietary rifling system which gives great accuracy but has a relatively short barrel life.

They have a proprietary but licensed version of the Hodge wedge lock rail which has QD sling mounts.

[awp_101]

How do you like the BK upper? I am debating on on of their DRP 300BO barrels.
Thanks!
I like it so far. Indications are it's probably overgassed but that's not unexpected.

[texasaggie2005]

Hey man, question for you. I finally got to shoot mine. Other than the oppressive ring, are you noticing it breaks up and to the right when shooting? Mine is doing it. Not to the point where I can't correct it for follow up shots but reviewing the video I can see it clearly. Also my friends who have shot it had the same feedback. I feel like it is perfectly gassed and will change the muzzle device out for a surefire CTN. The SR16 definitely kicks more stuff out of the front of the muzzle.

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I'll have to get back to you on that. I haven't really noted anything abnormal shooting it. What weight buffer & spring are you running? I have the Super42 w/ H2.

[navyman8903]

I'll have to get back to you on that. I haven't really noted anything abnormal shooting it. What weight buffer & spring are you running? I have the Super42 w/ H2.

I also have a Super 42/H2 combo. It shoots really smooth. Just have that up and to the right push. I looked at the cut of the muzzle device and that's the culprit for sure. I'm going to swap a CTN on it as soon as possible. I really like how its gassed and I think when I get the P4Xi on it, it'll outshoot my SR16 with its barrel profile.

[navyman8903]

This is why, look at that agro cut at the 4:30 as the device is facing us.

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[awp_101]

[i]stupid question]Is that device designed to have everything off center?[/stupid question]

[GyroF-16]

Has anyone here put some rounds through Geissele’s new Duty Pistols or Super Duty Pistols?
I’ve been eying the Duty Pistol (currently out of stock), but wondering how (un)pleasant the muzzle blast would be with the 10.3” barrel.
And if ponying up the big bucks for the Super Duty Pistol, might the 11.5” barrel be a better choice?

[navyman8903]

Has anyone here put some rounds through Geissele’s new Duty Pistols or Super Duty Pistols?
I’ve been eying the Duty Pistol (currently out of stock), but wondering how (un)pleasant the muzzle blast would be with the 10.3” barrel.
And if ponying up the big bucks for the Super Duty Pistol, might the 11.5” barrel be a better choice?

11.5 all the way. Unless you're getting a 10.3-10.5 with an adjustable gas block, then 11.5. They're so much better.

[navyman8903]

[i]stupid question]Is that device designed to have everything off center?[/stupid question]

I guess lol. I'm not sure what they were thinking.

[GyroF-16]

11.5 all the way. Unless you're getting a 10.3-10.5 with an adjustable gas block, then 11.5. They're so much better.

Why an adjustable gas block on 10.3”? To facilitate operation with a suppressor?

I’d tend to assume that Geissele would know what they’re doing with gassing and buffer selection for a complete gun, so wondering why adjustable..

But I’m really new to ARs, so I don’t know what I don’t know...

[navyman8903]

Why an adjustable gas block on 10.3”? To facilitate operation with a suppressor?

I’d tend to assume that Geissele would know what they’re doing with gassing and buffer selection for a complete gun, so wondering why adjustable..

But I’m really new to ARs, so I don’t know what I don’t know...

No stress man, we've all been there. This is an example of an adjustable gas block. What it allows is adjusting the gas port size essentially. You can set it for unsuppressed, suppressed, single shot, and adverse if memory serves. What it allows for is giving you an additional layer of control over your rifle.

Most if not all 10.3-10.5's are over gassed and the timing is very aggressive. 11.5's are much smoother over all and I don't think you'll find anyone with both or experience on both will refute that. You have to work a lot harder to tame a 10.3-10.5 though it is not impossible. Most people run a sprinco red spring or blue spring with an H3 buffer which is a really heavy setup to offset the severity of the recoil/gas. It'll also increase the lock time and slow the timing down overall. Which will also increase the longevity of your bolt lugs.

But honestly man, I would go with an 11.5. The Geissele even at full price is a screaming deal. Run it with a Super 42 and Geissele H2 buffer. Or a Noveske H2 buffer with a Sprinco Blue spring. You'll be very happy with it.

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[ASH556]

Why an adjustable gas block on 10.3”? To facilitate operation with a suppressor?

I’d tend to assume that Geissele would know what they’re doing with gassing and buffer selection for a complete gun, so wondering why adjustable..

But I’m really new to ARs, so I don’t know what I don’t know...

Forget about the adjustable gas block. Are you running a suppressor or not? Why do you want a 10.3 or 11.5 pistol? Just smaller? Either will run just fine with proper gas port sizing (the Geissele 10.3's are DD barrels reported to be .070, so that's good. Their 11.5's are fine as well from firsthand experience with 2 that belong to another member).

I like 10.3 because I want it as short as possible with a full-size can.

[ASH556]

No stress man, we've all been there. This is an example of an adjustable gas block. What it allows is adjusting the gas port size essentially. You can set it for unsuppressed, suppressed, single shot, and adverse if memory serves. What it allows for is giving you an additional layer of control over your rifle.

Most if not all 10.3-10.5's are over gassed and the timing is very aggressive. 11.5's are much smoother over all and I don't think you'll find anyone with both or experience on both will refute that. You have to work a lot harder to tame a 10.3-10.5 though it is not impossible. Most people run a sprinco red spring or blue spring with an H3 buffer which is a really heavy setup to offset the severity of the recoil/gas. It'll also increase the lock time and slow the timing down overall. Which will also increase the longevity of your bolt lugs.

But honestly man, I would go with an 11.5. The Geissele even at full price is a screaming deal. Run it with a Super 42 and Geissele H2 buffer. Or a Noveske H2 buffer with a Sprinco Blue spring. You'll be very happy with it.

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Sorry, guess I'm gonna be that guy. Everything you've posted about 10.3's is false.

[navyman8903]

Sorry, guess I'm gonna be that guy. Everything you've posted about 10.3's is false.

I would love for you to list how it is with the years of data assembled on the 10.3's out there. Including user feedback easily accessible from reputable sources.

[awp_101]

I guess lol. I'm not sure what they were thinking.
I've seen other designs where the prongs are sort of twisted or otherwise not centered and dress right dress as a way to modify or reduce the flash. Since the one you have doubles as a suppressor mount I don't know if that twist is part of the design for flash hiding, something to do with running a suppressor, both or if the guy running the CNC that day was off his game.

[texasaggie2005]

I also have a Super 42/H2 combo. It shoots really smooth. Just have that up and to the right push. I looked at the cut of the muzzle device and that's the culprit for sure. I'm going to swap a CTN on it as soon as possible. I really like how its gassed and I think when I get the P4Xi on it, it'll outshoot my SR16 with its barrel profile.


This is why, look at that agro cut at the 4:30 as the device is facing us.

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I'm not sure that's the culprit. All three tines are equally spaced 120° apart and equal sized, so I'd assume the blast exiting is equal as well.

I have Surefire's 3P Eliminator on mine, which is the non-suppressor mount of your SF3P. And I actually have a 14.5 upper with a SF3P p&w.

Next time I go shooting, I'll shoot both back to back and see if I feel a difference.

[TGS]

Why an adjustable gas block on 10.3”? To facilitate operation with a suppressor?

I’d tend to assume that Geissele would know what they’re doing with gassing and buffer selection for a complete gun, so wondering why adjustable..

But I’m really new to ARs, so I don’t know what I don’t know...

The muzzle blast will only effect you if you're in close quarters, close to a barricade, that sort of thing. A blaster diffuser/blast forward/linear compensator will direct the blast downrange if you're worried about people next to you.

Or, if you're running suppressed, it's a non-issue, as well as any worry about the possibility of it not being gassed enough.

Just buy what you want, make sure it's set up properly and it will run fine. I didn't buy a DD Mk18 for a couple years because I agonized over what the internet told me about 10.3" barrels, until I finally came to the realization that I/my agency has more experience with properly built Mk18s than the internet, and our experience is basically peaches'n'cream. For all the handwringing on the interwebs about 10.3" barrels, ours just work fine.



Most if not all 10.3-10.5's are over gassed and the timing is very aggressive. 11.5's are much smoother over all and I don't think you'll find anyone with both or experience on both will refute that. You have to work a lot harder to tame a 10.3-10.5 though it is not impossible. Most people run a sprinco red spring or blue spring with an H3 buffer which is a really heavy setup to offset the severity of the recoil/gas. It'll also increase the lock time and slow the timing down overall. Which will also increase the longevity of your bolt lugs.



I would love for you to list how it is with the years of data assembled on the 10.3's out there. Including user feedback easily accessible from reputable sources.


That might be the case with overgassed guns, but a Mk18 with a Crane-spec .070" gas port is not over gassed. As an agency, we run standard springs and H buffers on our several thousand DD Mk18s, no issues, and they're extremely smooth shooting, reliable guns. The smoothness is akin to my BCM 14.5" midlength guns, feels like a .22 magnum. A standard Colt M4 feels like a different caliber when shooting them side by side.

FWIW, most 11.5" barrels have gas port sizes as big or bigger than .070", while having the longer dwell time as well. So, if you think a proper Mk18 is overgassed, that means garden-variety 11.5" guns are way overgassed. That also means they would have increased bolt velocity over the Mk18, which would result in more abrubt recoil, not less, and more parts breakages, not less.

So, I'm not saying that 11.5" guns have those issues, since that's obviously not true. I'm using your own thought process/logic to point out that you're wrong.

[navyman8903]

I've seen other designs where the prongs are sort of twisted or otherwise not centered and dress right dress as a way to modify or reduce the flash. Since the one you have doubles as a suppressor mount I don't know if that twist is part of the design for flash hiding, something to do with running a suppressor, both or if the guy running the CNC that day was off his game.

I think this design works for a 4 prong okay as it is going in 4 opposing directions. My URGI shoots flat without any increased pressure in any direction. Where as the 3 prong, especially on the 11.5 does not work as well. With the 3 directions to go vs the 4 it has to push some way. Also the vents are larger essentially so more force, coupled with the short barrel. I would be interested to shoot it against the Geissele 14.5 or 16" super duty rifles to see if it's as savage an issue.

[ASH556]

No stress man, we've all been there. This is an example of an adjustable gas block. What it allows is adjusting the gas port size essentially. You can set it for unsuppressed, suppressed, single shot, and adverse if memory serves. What it allows for is giving you an additional layer of control over your rifle. Adjustable gas blocks also introduce a failure point to the most critical part of the system that differentiates it from a bolt-action rifle.

Most if not all 10.3-10.5's are over gassed Not if ported correctlyand the timing is very aggressive. 11.5's are much smoother over all Again, depends on porting and who made the barre, but certainly not a blanket statement. Slightly smoother, maybe. Much? No. and I don't think you'll find anyone with both or experience on both will refute that. Me, I refute it. Speaking as a multiple-certified armorer working at one of the largest shops in the Atlanta area on public guns ranging from Colts to Noveskes to whatever the worst garbage you can possibly imagine. I have a pretty good idea of what will run, what won't, and why. You have to work a lot harder to tame a 10.3-10.5 though it is not impossible. Not even close.Most people run a sprinco red spring or blue spring with an H3 buffer which is a really heavy setup to offset the severity of the recoil/gas. False. With a 10.3" barrel ported at 0.070, I run a Colt spring and H2. The gun runs 100% with .223 or 5.56 ammo, suppressed or not. It's plenty controllable. I can run mine at .10-.12 splits across 10 shot strings and hold the black of a B8 at 7yds no issues. It'll also increase the lock time and slow the timing down overall. Dwell time, not lock time and that's only a part of the equation. Gas port sizing plays as much if not more of a factor here. For example, a 16" Carbine-gassed barrel has more dwell time than a 16" midlength, but the mid length is always said to be smoother shooting. Also the mid length has a larger gas port. Which will also increase the longevity of your bolt lugs. Maybe, again depends on other factors

But honestly man, I would go with an 11.5. The Geissele even at full price is a screaming deal. Run it with a Super 42 and Geissele H2 buffer. Or a Noveske H2 buffer with a Sprinco Blue spring. You'll be very happy with it.

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There's a start.

[navyman8903]

The muzzle blast will only effect you if you're in close quarters, close to a barricade, that sort of thing. A blaster diffuser/blast forward/linear compensator will direct the blast downrange if you're worried about people next to you.

Or, if you're running suppressed, it's a non-issue, as well as any worry about the possibility of it not being gassed enough.

Just buy what you want, make sure it's set up properly and it will run fine. I didn't buy a DD Mk18 for a couple years because I agonized over what the internet told me about 10.3" barrels, until I finally came to the realization that I/my agency has more experience with properly built Mk18s than the internet, and our experience is basically peaches'n'cream. For all the handwringing on the interwebs about 10.3" barrels, ours just work fine.






That might be the case with overgassed guns, but a Mk18 with a Crane-spec .070" gas port is not over gassed. As an agency, we run standard springs and H buffers on our several thousand DD Mk18s, no issues, and they're extremely smooth shooting, reliable guns. The smoothness is akin to my BCM 14.5" midlength guns, feels like a .22 magnum. A standard Colt M4 feels like a different caliber when shooting them side by side.

So I'm not refuting your experience. The 11.5 Geissele uses a .068 vs their 10.3 using the .070. The 10.3's I've shot are noticeably rougher on recoil and timing. I've run more than a few to include LMT, DD, a BCM 10.something and a few other 10.5's. There are also plenty of 10.3's out there with broken bolt lugs. Which was the highlighted issue with the 10.3's is the reduced internal parts life. I'm not saying it's impossible to get one to run right, there's just a few steps you have to take and the gas port size is important. I would submit that any length gun with an improper gas port size for the length/gas system length will be miserable to shoot.

The only smooth 10.5 I've fired was a noveske with an adjustable gas block both unsuppressed and suppressed.

[ASH556]

I would submit that any length gun with an improper gas port size for the length/gas system length will be miserable to shoot.



Now that's something we can agree on.

[navyman8903]

There's a start.

So you run colt parts, but colt is the worst garbage out there with Noveske.........Interesting feedback. Maybe give a sprinco spring a shot or a geissele lol.

Also what part of the dwell time is most important? The locking and unlocking in the cycle of operations which dwell time effects. IF your round is going down a shorter barrel the dwell time is of course shorter, which also has an effect on the cycle of operations. Short dwell time, makes the cycle of operations faster. Thus the parts breakages, thus the issue. Gas port size is important, no one is saying otherwise. I'm also sure the 11.5's don't have the same issue the 10.3's do.



I'm not saying the guns are impossible to run, nor am I saying the gun won't run till it breaks. But the recoil is more significant 10.3-10.5 to 11.5.

[TGS]

So I'm not refuting your experience. The 11.5 Geissele uses a .068 vs their 10.3 using the .070. The 10.3's I've shot are noticeably rougher on recoil and timing. I've run more than a few to include LMT, DD, a BCM 10.something and a few other 10.5's. There are also plenty of 10.3's out there with broken bolt lugs. Which was the highlighted issue with the 10.3's is the reduced internal parts life. I'm not saying it's impossible to get one to run right, there's just a few steps you have to take and the gas port size is important. I would submit that any length gun with an improper gas port size for the length/gas system length will be miserable to shoot.

The only smooth 10.5 I've fired was a noveske with an adjustable gas block both unsuppressed and suppressed.

Plenty of M4s with broken bolt lugs as well. But, back to your logic, if a Mk18 is forcing too much gas, too fast, and putting too much lateral torque on the bolt lugs then most 11.5" guns are putting exponentially more lateral torque. Geissele might use a .068" port on the 11.5", but most 11.5" are greater diameter than .070" Mk18s, and for some reason 11.5" guns aren't known to break down all the time.

....because it's vampire-herpes internet bullshit.

I wouldn't be surprised if many 10.3" barrels 5+ years ago were rough shooting. Up until June 2018, DD purposely built their commercially-marketed Mk18 with .082" gas ports, which is basically a blowhole compared to what a Mk18 is supposed to have.

Gas port sizing is pretty well figured out to make them run right. Just because people didn't have guns properly configured doesn't mean 10.3" doesn't run well. I would never take a pre-June 2018 DD Mk18 and use it to make an assessment about a properly built 10.3" gun, nor would I take a Colt 607 with it's 10" barrel and .093-.110" gas port and make an assessment about a proper 10.x" gun.

[TGS]

So you run colt parts, but colt is the worst garbage out there with Noveske.........Interesting feedback. Maybe give a sprinco spring a shot or a geissele lol.

Please stop.

[ASH556]

So you run colt parts, but colt is the worst garbage out there with Noveske.........Interesting feedback. Maybe give a sprinco spring a shot or a geissele lol.

Also what part of the dwell time is most important? The locking and unlocking in the cycle of operations which dwell time effects. IF your round is going down a shorter barrel the dwell time is of course shorter, which also has an effect on the cycle of operations. Short dwell time, makes the cycle of operations faster. Thus the parts breakages, thus the issue. Gas port size is important, no one is saying otherwise. I'm also sure the 11.5's don't have the same issue the 10.3's do.



I'm not saying the guns are impossible to run, nor am I saying the gun won't run till it breaks. But the recoil is more significant 10.3-10.5 to 11.5.

Reading is fundamental. Go check again because what I said is, "ranging from Colts to Noveskes to whatever the worst garbage you can possibly imagine."

I did not say Colt and Noveske were garbage. They were one end (the positive end) of the range I described.

The problem we have here is you're mostly regurgitating hearsay whereas TGS and I are sharing firsthand experience.

[navyman8903]

Plenty of M4s with broken bolt lugs as well. But, back to your logic, if a Mk18 is forcing too much gas, too fast, and putting too much lateral torque on the bolt lugs then most 11.5" guns are putting exponentially more lateral torque. Geissele might use a .068" port on the 11.5", but most 11.5" are greater diameter than .070" Mk18s, and for some reason 11.5" guns aren't known to break down all the time.

....because it's vampire-herpes internet bullshit.

I wouldn't be surprised if many 10.3" barrels 5+ years ago were rough shooting. DD purposely built their commercially-marketed Mk18 with .082" gas ports, which is basically a blowhole compared to what a Mk18 is supposed to have.

Gas port sizing is pretty well figured out to make them run right. Just because people didn't have guns properly configured doesn't mean 10.3" doesn't run well. I would never take a pre-June 2018 DD Mk18 and use it to make an assessment about a properly built 10.3" gun, nor would I take a Colt 607 with it's 10" barrel and .093-.110" gas port and make an assessment about a proper 10.x" gun.

So I guess the guns I've shot are older than 2018...... That doesn't automatically take them off the market and out of the hands of end users. I also agree as with everyone here the gas port size matters.

So unless buddy is getting a Geissele URGI 10.3 or a perfectly researched 2018+ DD MK18 upper/pistol/SBR we can't grantee his results?

I've also not experienced a poorly running 11.5 out there. Granted I own an SR16 and a Geissele 11.5, and have not owned anything else. I also have fired an LMT 11.5 with an RC2 for about 800 rounds, and 1k through a TXT 11.5. I'm creeping up on 1500 rounds with my SR16 and I just got 200 rounds through my Geissele. I'm not an 11.5 expert. But I have fired quite a few over the years both in the military during weapons fam/cross training (military weapons not being as well maintained and I will not lean too heavily on that, but I did get to fire them on full auto) and a lot of my friend's setups to include a few DD MK18's. The experiences pushed me into the 11.5's because of the shooting experiences being much better.

I'm not saying if you disagree with me you're an idiot. But I remember getting those samples to run smooth had the mods I listed before to smooth them out.

[navyman8903]

Reading is fundamental. Go check again because what I said is, "ranging from Colts to Noveskes to whatever the worst garbage you can possibly imagine."

I did not say Colt and Noveske were garbage. They were one end (the positive end) of the range I described.

The problem we have here is you're mostly regurgitating hearsay whereas TGS and I are sharing firsthand experience.

I did read too fast, my apologies. I would respectfully recommend a little more detail/specificity for those of us who are retarded in the future. (I'm not being shitty)



I also am speaking from experience from shooting the guns. I'm not regurgitating gunshop gossip. I've had the opportunity to fire a lot of setups and a lot of different guns. The 10.3's were the worst. I will admit, I have not fired a URGI 10.3, maybe I'll look for someone with one. Again, the smoothest gun I've fired in 10. anything was that noveske. Which was the first gun to change my position on the 10" guns. However, with the array of 11.5's I've fired, they were very basic setups and very easy guns to shoot without all of those problems.

[TGS]

But I remember getting those samples to run smooth had the mods I listed before to smooth them out.

Well, there's the rub. You're literally advocating for someone to setup a Crane-spec'd Mk18 with a different buffer weight and spring than Crane designs the gun to be paired with to run correctly.

If I had a 10.3" barrel with a .082" gas port, yeah, I might do that. That's not what we're discussing here. You're literally telling a P-F.com member how to make their gun less reliable (In theory, at least. An H buffer + LAW BCG extension is almost an H3 in practice, and works fine).

[navyman8903]

Well, there's the rub. You're literally advocating for someone to setup a Crane-spec'd Mk18 with a different buffer weight and spring than Crane designs the gun to be paired with to run correctly.

If I had a 10.3" barrel with a .082" gas port, yeah, I might do that. That's not what we're discussing here. You're literally telling a P-F.com member how to make their gun less reliable.

Are they buying a crane spec'd MK18?

[TGS]

Are they buying a crane spec'd MK18?

He's looking at a Geissele 10.3", which uses the .070" gas port as specified by Crane.

So, yeah.

[navyman8903]

He's looking at a Geissele 10.3", which uses the .070" gas port as specified by Crane.

So, yeah.

Then I defer to your judgement, but it looks like their 10.3 uses an 11.5 barrel lol (probably a typo)

https://geissele.com/super-duty-pistol-10-3-5-56mm-40mm-green.html

[navyman8903]

Has anyone here put some rounds through Geissele’s new Duty Pistols or Super Duty Pistols?
I’ve been eying the Duty Pistol (currently out of stock), but wondering how (un)pleasant the muzzle blast would be with the 10.3” barrel.
And if ponying up the big bucks for the Super Duty Pistol, might the 11.5” barrel be a better choice?

So in summation, if you get a short boi (10.3) make sure it has a .070 gas port size or you might have a bad time. The URGI or super duty seems to be good to go. The 11.5 is what I would recommend. If the recoil is a tad on the sharp side I would recommend progressively changing things to adjust it so long as you're firing 5.56. My 11.5 runs 55gr 5.56 all the way to black hills 77gr TMK's smoothly and without issue so far.

Geissele also makes a nice H2 to use with their super 42 spring which I run in my 11.5 Super duty and 14.5 URGI without any issue. But I run brass 5.56 pressure stuff, can't say based on my ammo consumption it'll run steel cased or .223 pressure.

[navyman8903]

......


.......

Wait a second......my KAC SR16 runs the 21057 as per KAC and that's an H2 weight......... I don't know the gas port size because I can't find it. But KAC really regulates their gas systems, there's no bleed off. I'm sure the Geissele is the same having installed a few bomb proof gas blocks at this point. So I'm sure the 10.3 can run an H2 weight without issue.

54501

Geissele themselves also recommends an "H2" or "H3" suppressed or unsuppressed............ How am I giving bad info again?

https://geissele.com/super-42-braided-wire-buffer-spring-and-buffer-combo-h3.html


Edit:
AAAAAAANNNNND The goddamn gun comes from geissele with their H3 installed!!!

[Casual Friday]

So I'm not refuting your experience. The 11.5 Geissele uses a .068 vs their 10.3 using the .070. The 10.3's I've shot are noticeably rougher on recoil and timing. I've run more than a few to include LMT, DD, a BCM 10.something and a few other 10.5's. There are also plenty of 10.3's out there with broken bolt lugs. Which was the highlighted issue with the 10.3's is the reduced internal parts life. I'm not saying it's impossible to get one to run right, there's just a few steps you have to take and the gas port size is important. I would submit that any length gun with an improper gas port size for the length/gas system length will be miserable to shoot.

The only smooth 10.5 I've fired was a noveske with an adjustable gas block both unsuppressed and suppressed.

When did BCM make a 10.something 5.56 upper?

I'll agree with you that most 10.3/10.5 uppers are harsher operating than most 11.5" uppers because most companies are still blowing up the gas port to make up for dudes trying to run Tula through them. A 10.3 with a Crane spec gas port and H1 or H2 buffer is quite different.

[TGS]

Wait a second......my KAC SR16 runs the 21057 as per KAC and that's an H2 weight......... I don't know the gas port size because I can't find it. But KAC really regulates their gas systems, there's no bleed off. I'm sure the Geissele is the same having installed a few bomb proof gas blocks at this point. So I'm sure the 10.3 can run an H2 weight without issue.

54501

Geissele themselves also recommends an "H2" or "H3" suppressed or unsuppressed............ How am I giving bad info again?

https://geissele.com/super-42-braided-wire-buffer-spring-and-buffer-combo-h3.html


Edit:
AAAAAAANNNNND The goddamn gun comes from geissele with their H3 installed!!!

Please read what I wrote, and then read what you wrote.

[navyman8903]

Please read what I wrote, and then read what you wrote.

No I did this time. You said I'm giving out information that will make a member's gun less reliable, when Geissele is shipping their .070 gas port 10.3 super duty guns with an H3 buffer.

[navyman8903]

When did BCM make a 10.something 5.56 upper?

I'll agree with you that most 10.3/10.5 uppers are harsher operating than most 11.5" uppers because most companies are still blowing up the gas port to make up for dudes trying to run Tula through them. A 10.3 with a Crane spec gas port and H1 or H2 buffer is quite different.

You're correct, I just talked with my buddy about his BCM and it's not a 10.5.

[ASH556]

Most people run a sprinco red spring or blue spring with an H3 buffer which is a really heavy setup to offset the severity of the recoil/gas.


11.5 all the way. Unless you're getting a 10.3-10.5 with an adjustable gas block, then 11.5. They're so much better.

This is where you're steering people astray.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Shorter AR's cycle faster than longer ones...fact. I'll be we can agree on that. Your posts assert that there is some massive void between a 10.3 and 11.5 where the 10.3 is completely unreliable, harsh to shoot, and requires lots of extra tweaks to even get to run, whereas the 11.5 is a panacea of bliss.

That's the part we're calling you out for.

If your KAC 11.5 runs fine with an H2, why is having an H2 in a 10.3" gun all of a sudden "extra parts to make it run well"? Guess what else has an H2? A 14.5" SOCOM. Guess what will run with an H3? Your KAC 11.5 and my 10.3.

Adjustable gas is not needed. Boutique springs are not needed.

If you like 11.5, cool. 10.3 is just not the buggar you're making it out to be.

[navyman8903]

This is where you're steering people astray.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Shorter AR's cycle faster than longer ones...fact. I'll be we can agree on that. Your posts assert that there is some massive void between a 10.3 and 11.5 where the 10.3 is completely unreliable, harsh to shoot, and requires lots of extra tweaks to even get to run, whereas the 11.5 is a panacea of bliss.

That's the part we're calling you out for.

If your KAC 11.5 runs fine with an H2, why is having an H2 in a 10.3" gun all of a sudden "extra parts to make it run well"? Guess what else has an H2? A 14.5" SOCOM. Guess what will run with an H3? Your KAC 11.5 and my 10.3.

Adjustable gas is not needed. Boutique springs are not needed.

If you like 11.5, cool. 10.3 is just not the buggar you're making it out to be.

You're over simplifying my argument and putting words in my mouth. I did not make them out to be those extremes. I will concede I can make improvements in the delivery of my argument/postion. I also conceded that I may have fired guns without the .070 gas port size. But the Coast guard and NCIS MK18's should be crane spec right?

I don't remember saying they're required for operation, but make the experience better. Which they do. I also never said the guns don't work.

I'm also aghast at the silence regarding Geissele sending their guns out with H3's. EVEN their 11.5's it seems as per their descriptions on their website. You two might want to give MR. Bill your experiences so you can avert him from the clear collision course he's on.


I will also concede "running well" is subjective. My preferred recoil impulse, length of pull, muzzle device, overall weight, sling placement, optic, reticle, cans ect are all going to be subjective. So in closing so there is ZERO wiggle room for misconception. You can EASILY purchase a DD MK18 AFTER 2018 with the .070 gas port size and run it as is. The 11.5 offered by Geissele, or even my SR16 to include the KAC 11.5 SR15 CQB as those are my highest round count/consistent time on the gun will run smoother, which I equate to recoil impulse and ease of keeping on target for follow up shots. I've found through my experience the 11.5 is easier to accomplish the mission of smooth recoil, follow up shots, and I've observed, based on my experience the cycle of operations feels better TO ME and those who have fired my rifles based on their verbal feedback to me.

[TGS]

You're over simplifying my argument and putting words in my mouth. I did not make them out to be those extremes. I will concede I can make improvements in the delivery of my argument/postion. I also conceded that I may have fired guns without the .070 gas port size. But the Coast guard and NCIS MK18's should be crane spec right?

I don't remember saying they're required for operation, but make the experience better. Which they do. I also never said the guns don't work.

I'm also aghast at the silence regarding Geissele sending their guns out with H3's. EVEN their 11.5's it seems as per their descriptions on their website. You two might want to give MR. Bill your experiences so you can avert him from the clear collision course he's on.


Aghast at the silence? Jesus christ dude, it's been like a half hour, sorry that I didn't read your post right away. Dramatic much?

It looks like the chart for Geissele recommends H3 for suppressed. I can easily see that, suppressors introduce a lot of backpressure. Like I said, I don't think it will probably make a huge difference anyway given an H buffer + LAW BCG extension is nearly the equal of an H3.

So, okay. I honestly didn't know that Geissele shipped their 10.3" guns with H3s. As I said, Crane designed the Mk18 to run on an H2 suppressed or unsuppressed, and if it wasn't clear enough that's generally what I think would be wise to stick by. Feel better? Or are you aghast still?

Even if you're aghast, I think I'm done here.

[navyman8903]

Aghast at the silence? Jesus christ dude, it's been like a half hour, sorry that I didn't read your post right away. Dramatic much?

It looks like the chart for Geissele recommends H3 for suppressed. I can easily see that, suppressors introduce a lot of backpressure. Like I said, I don't think it will probably make a huge difference anyway given an H buffer + LAW BCG extension is nearly the equal of an H3.

So, okay. I honestly didn't know that Geissele shipped their 10.3" guns with H3s. As I said, Crane designed the Mk18 to run on an H2 suppressed or unsuppressed, and if it wasn't clear enough that's generally what I think would be wise to stick by. Feel better? Or are you aghast still?

Even if you're aghast, I think I'm done here.

I was definitely being sarcastic, not as dramatic as saying I'm offering members bad info. But I think it's safe to say I'm not offering bad info, which is the point to this response. Maybe info you disagree with and I think we're not as far apart as we once thought.

You have a great day bud, and honestly be safe out there, these are shitty times.

[GyroF-16]

Wow.
Looks like my questions prompted some, er, “vigorous discussion.”

Thanks to all for lots of information.

ASH556 - mostly 10.3 because “shorter”.
I don’t own a suppressor (yet), but it seems like if I put a SF can on there, I’m right back up to 16” (like my Geissle SD rifle unsupressed).
But I’m not married to the idea of 10.3. Hence my questions.
I’ve also imagined eventually putting a LAW folder on it. Sounds like that might prompt a buffer change?
And if I do lay out the coin for a SF can (because: easily removable with the SF3P already on my Super Duty rifle), it would be nice to be able to use it on the rifle or the pistol. So that may figure into desired pistol barrel length, too.

[ASH556]

Wow.
Looks like my questions prompted some, er, “vigorous discussion.”

Thanks to all for lots of information.

ASH556 - mostly 10.3 because “shorter”.
I don’t own a suppressor (yet), but it seems like if I put a SF can on there, I’m right back up to 16” (like my Geissle SD rifle unsupressed).
But I’m not married to the idea of 10.3. Hence my questions.
I’ve also imagined eventually putting a LAW folder on it. Sounds like that might prompt a buffer change?
And if I do lay out the coin for a SF can (because: easily removable with the SF3P already on my Super Duty rifle), it would be nice to be able to use it on the rifle or the pistol. So that may figure into desired pistol barrel length, too.

I think Surefire doesn't recommend it, but I know karmapolice is running Surefire SOCOM Mini's on his 11.5's. It's a great setup. A full size on a 10.3 puts you right back out to 14.5" without suppressor.

If you want to use the can on longer 14.5 or 16" guns, the mini is probably best. Otherwise you end up with a 21" Musket. 10.3" + full size can is sweet and is all I use anymore.

https://i.imgur.com/AO4gHUql.jpg

[texasaggie2005]

I think Surefire doesn't recommend it, but I know karmapolice is running Surefire SOCOM Mini's on his 11.5's. It's a great setup. snip

ASH556 karmapolice

How is the SF mini on the 11.5? I'm thinking it's not as effective as the full size, but is the performance decrease small enough to make it a viable option?

[ASH556]

ASH556 karmapolice

How is the SF mini on the 11.5? I'm thinking it's not as effective as the full size, but is the performance decrease small enough to make it a viable option?

I think so. Sounds good. Deep tone, so it’s pleasant to the ear.

[Wake27]

Just throwing it out there, my MK18 that I got from Brownells at the beginning of quarantine shoots very well. I’m positive it’s the crane spec gas port just by the feel.


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[Caballoflaco]

If you're after all those facets then I guess you're spending money on Centurion.


Literally laughing out loud in my office reading this and co-workers are looking at me strangely through my window. ;)

Since these and the mk18 DD uppers from brownells are close to the same price and LMT uppers are around a grand is there a cheaper option with the same features I should be looking for. A quick search for colt bbls found they were around the 3hundo range too if any were in stock.

[ASH556]

Since these and the mk18 DD uppers from brownells are close to the same price and LMT uppers are around a grand is there a cheaper option with the same features I should be looking for. A quick search for colt bbls found they were around the 3hundo range too if any were in stock.

Are you equipped to assemble?

[Caballoflaco]

Are you equipped to assemble?

Negative, but I have a local shop with a good reputation that I wouldn’t mind giving some business too for assembly.

[TGS]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment. I've never really dove into tapered bores beyond HK and am mostly unlearned on the current options.

[ASH556]

Negative, but I have a local shop with a good reputation that I wouldn’t mind giving some business too for assembly.

If you can assemble, pick your barrel: colt, DD, FN. Check Arms Unlimited, Shark Arms, and Thoroughbred Armament regularly. $260-$300

BCM blem upper for $59. These are great and have a much tighter barrel fit.
Centurion BCG @ $125
Pick your rail and charging handle and you’re still well under a grand. Gas block is something to pay attention to. I like barrels with FSB’s so I can chop them and have a secure gas block. Something low pro set screwed and pinned isn’t bad either.

I’ve also used ADCO to cut to 10.3 and port at .070 when I wanted a SOCOM profile. That’s about $100 all in with shipping, but if you have or can find a Colt takeoff barrel for around $200 it’s about the same thing.

[Caballoflaco]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment. I've never really dove into tapered bores beyond HK and am mostly unlearned on the current options.

Word, honestly tapered bore isn’t that important, I’d just like a 10.3 in the Colt/DD/LMT/BCM quality range with chrome lining, proper spec gas port, and probably a pinned FSB that I can keep or grind depending on the handguard I decide to go with.

ETA: you were posting while I was ASH556 thanks for the info.

[Casey]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49935829692_89f8dc123d_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49935829672_96143c9b6b_b.jpg

I may have posted this before in another thread, but this one fits nicely into the central topic of this thread. After a lot of deliberation over putting together a suppressed 11.5" gun and listening to numerous podcasts, I came to the decision that a 12.5 was a better choice for me. I don't remember all the details, but I believe it was one of Chuck Pressburg's videos during which he discussed the 12.5 being the shortest one can go and still use an SF Mini somewhat effectively—with 11.5 and shorter, the optimal can would be the full-size RC2, but you end up with a similar overall length to the 12.5 while losing an inch of barrel (and an inch of handguard, meaning you're more cramped on the gun). There was probably some benefit with muzzle velocity, too. Still breaking this in, with just under a thousand rounds fired at this point. She feels fairly heavy, especially compared to my 14.5" BCMs with ELW-F barrels and the now-unobtainable magnesium-aluminum handguards. Throw an LPVO on this gun it would really be a great jack of all trades, but as this is a primary home defense gun, I'm happy with the T-2.

Overall length is about the same as my 9" .300 SBR with SOCOM762-RC2 attached, interestingly. Although that gun fits in a backpack with the stock folded and can removed...

BCM upper (assembled by Dave Laubert)
BCM lower (registered SBR)
BCM 12.5 standard carbine barrel
Hodge Wedge Lock 11.5" handguard
SLR Rifleworks Micro Gas Block
SureFire WARCOMP-556
SureFire SOCOM556-MINI2
Modlite PLH-v2 18650 w/SF DS00 tailcap on Arisaka M-LOK Offset Scout Mount
SureFire SR07 modded to fit Cloud Defensive LCS Mk2
BCM MCMR QD Sling Mount
Magpul M-LOK Rail Covers, Type 2
Condition Gray Sling Retainer Catch Gen2
Magpul Pro Offset BUIS
Aimpoint Micro H2 on Geissele 1.93" mount
Geissele Super Charging Handle
Geissele SSA trigger
Forward Controls Design EMR-H
Forward Controls Design ABC/R-F
BCM Mod2 pistol grip and Mod3 vertical grip
AR Gas Vent
BCM Ion Bond BCG
Geissele Super 42 spring and buffer (configured as H2)
Law Tactical Gen3-M folding stock adapter
Magpul SL stock w/enhanced buttpad

[HCM]

ASH556 karmapolice

How is the SF mini on the 11.5? I'm thinking it's not as effective as the full size, but is the performance decrease small enough to make it a viable option?

The mini is rated for anything > 10” in terms of durability. It’s not going to be hearing safe on an 11.5” but it’s still better than an unsuppressed SBR. If you normally run active hearing protection like @Karmapolive that plus a mini is GTG.

[karmapolice]

The mini is rated for anything > 10” in terms of durability. It’s not going to be hearing safe on an 11.5” but it’s still better than an unsuppressed SBR. If you normally run active hearing protection like @Karmapolive that plus a mini is GTG.

Yep, a lot of teams,units, groups, agencies whatever already do it on 10.3" and 11.5" like I do. Cuts the blast, reduces noises, hides flash etc.

[navyman8903]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49935829692_89f8dc123d_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49935829672_96143c9b6b_b.jpg

I may have posted this before in another thread, but this one fits nicely into the central topic of this thread. After a lot of deliberation over putting together a suppressed 11.5" gun and listening to numerous podcasts, I came to the decision that a 12.5 was a better choice for me. I don't remember all the details, but I believe it was one of Chuck Pressburg's videos during which he discussed the 12.5 being the shortest one can go and still use an SF Mini somewhat effectively—with 11.5 and shorter, the optimal can would be the full-size RC2, but you end up with a similar overall length to the 12.5 while losing an inch of barrel (and an inch of handguard, meaning you're more cramped on the gun). There was probably some benefit with muzzle velocity, too. Still breaking this in, with just under a thousand rounds fired at this point. She feels fairly heavy, especially compared to my 14.5" BCMs with ELW-F barrels and the now-unobtainable magnesium-aluminum handguards. Throw an LPVO on this gun it would really be a great jack of all trades, but as this is a primary home defense gun, I'm happy with the T-2.

Overall length is about the same as my 9" .300 SBR with SOCOM762-RC2 attached, interestingly. Although that gun fits in a backpack with the stock folded and can removed...

BCM upper (assembled by Dave Laubert)
BCM lower (registered SBR)
BCM 12.5 standard carbine barrel
Hodge Wedge Lock 11.5" handguard
SLR Rifleworks Micro Gas Block
SureFire WARCOMP-556
SureFire SOCOM556-MINI2
Modlite PLH-v2 18650 w/SF DS00 tailcap on Arisaka M-LOK Offset Scout Mount
SureFire SR07 modded to fit Cloud Defensive LCS Mk2
BCM MCMR QD Sling Mount
Magpul M-LOK Rail Covers, Type 2
Condition Gray Sling Retainer Catch Gen2
Magpul Pro Offset BUIS
Aimpoint Micro H2 on Geissele 1.93" mount
Geissele Super Charging Handle
Geissele SSA trigger
Forward Controls Design EMR-H
Forward Controls Design ABC/R-F
BCM Mod2 pistol grip and Mod3 vertical grip
AR Gas Vent
BCM Ion Bond BCG
Geissele Super 42 spring and buffer (configured as H2)
Law Tactical Gen3-M folding stock adapter
Magpul SL stock w/enhanced buttpad

That's a slick setup man. I'm looking at a Triarc 12.5 for that reason. Not sure if I'm going to run an RC2 on it or get a MINI. All my dedicated suppressed guns are going to run the RC2/KAC QDC. But I might squeeze 1 Mini in there for this reason. I like how short/effective it is. You also pick a lot of the same parts I do when doing a build so I'll be interested to see your continued feedback on this setup. Very well put together.

Not a bad paint job either.

[Jay585]

Scratch this, found my answer in a later post down the page.

[awp_101]

Scratch this, found my answer in a later post down the page.

Glad we could help!;)

[GyroF-16]

I resolved my quandary of 10.3” vs 11.5” and ordered a Geissele Super Duty pistol with an 11.5” barrel.
I’m looking forward to trying it out.

[paperman]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/b3d3125372b57a8ab8c2c89858e7b1ac.jpg

Colt 6920 fsb upper cut down to 10.3 by ADCO, raptor LT ch, DD rear sight, streamlight rm-hlx, magpul handguard & light mount, aero precision lower, umbrella Corp lpk w/grip 23, alg qms, law folder, pws ratchet tube & h2, talihook brace, bfg sling, da flash hider and sandman k

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/02ceea15aef157377ca7c604de788f5c.jpg

Aero precision pistol m4e1 8in 300blk, DD fixed sights, bcm bcg, raptor LT ch, streamlight rm 1, magpul offset light mount, sb brace, reptilia corp cqc grip, MI sling mount, h2, bfg sling, and da flash hider


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paperman]

Found how it looked when I first decided to turn it into an ar pistol.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/d736f15caf15df5a6e2c3443fcba7020.jpg



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/b3d3125372b57a8ab8c2c89858e7b1ac.jpg

Colt 6920 fsb upper cut down to 10.3 by ADCO, raptor LT ch, DD rear sight, streamlight rm-hlx, magpul handguard & light mount, aero precision lower, umbrella Corp lpk w/grip 23, alg qms, law folder, pws ratchet tube & h2, talihook brace, bfg sling, da flash hider and sandman k

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/02ceea15aef157377ca7c604de788f5c.jpg

Aero precision pistol m4e1 8in 300blk, DD fixed sights, bcm bcg, raptor LT ch, streamlight rm 1, magpul offset light mount, sb brace, reptilia corp cqc grip, MI sling mount, h2, bfg sling, and da flash hider


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[johnson]

It's been a while since I've shot this but here's my lego build and parts list from the top of my head. Scope and lower and its parts are for a recce setup. It shoots ~1 MOA or better with match ammo.

Centurion 12.5" w/ chopped FSB
Centurion CMR 11"
Bushnell LRHS 3-12x on a NF Unimount 1.375
Smith Vortex or TBAC 30P-1 w/ thread adapter

LMT lower
VLTOR A5 tube
JP SCSS
B5 Bravo stock
LaRue MBT-2S (only had one range trip last fall but it's nice)

https://i.imgur.com/zRy9rVr.jpg

[johnson]

I found a pic of when I first put together the build from about 9 years ago. The cerakote was supposed to match the MK18 RIS II but I eventually sold it because I chopped down the FSB to go with a longer handguard.

As for the why and thought process, I heeded the advice from Failure2Stop (Jack Leuba) and grinch (Monty LeClair) on M4C concerning the different barrel lengths of ARs in 5.56. It could be outdated but it seems that Centurion still only sells 12.5" and 16" barrels a decade later.


Quality 16" middie and 12.5".


A good quality 16" barrel will let you do anything you should be doing with 5.56.


I like 12.5s because they tend to run better, have slightly better terminal performance, and you can use longer handguards, and gaining 2" of handguard makes more difference than losing 2" of barrel.


I chose 16in and 12.5in as I feel these are the best lengths for the cartridge. The 16in for me is the most versatile. Its the minimum legal length with out giving up the ability to change flash hiders and breaks and try new cans ect. I feel that a 16in give me what I need in performance from a 5.56 rifle if I need more that what that offers I'm in an environment that its time to step up to a 7.62. The Recce rifle that later turned into the MK12 program started as a 16in precision rifle and does a great job as a precision weapon in 5.56. If I wanted a carbine as an assaulter or as a general purpose carbine then I'm a fan of the 12.5in barrel its the shortest you can get and still have good terminal performance out of a large variety of ammunition that is on the market. The 12.5 also gives you enough dwell time to be reliable with a wider variety of ammo and in a wider variety of environments it just has a wider operation envelope then the shorter barrels and is a GREAT all around length.


LMT Defender 2000 Lower
Magpul MOE Grip
Noveske QD End Plate
Vltor A5 RE Kit
Vltor IMOD Standard

Vltor MUR-1A
Centurion 12.5" w/ pinned FSB
Bravo Company BCG
Daniel Defense MK18 RIS II FSP
Troy Folding Rear
Gear Sector QD Sling Mount
Blue Force Gear VCAS Padded

Total length is just under 30" with the stock in the 2nd position. The IMOD does not collapse all the way with this A5 extension.

56409

[Casual Friday]

I picked up another Law folder from Optics Planet last week and it arrived today. I wanted another one so I could have a dedicated backpack/truck gun and not have to keep swapping uppers and pistol braces. It also gave me an excuse to build another 11.5" upper and use the Geissele OD green MK4 Fed rail that I bought Black Friday 2018.

LMT Defender lower
Law Tactical gen 3 folder
Geissele SSA trigger
VLTOR A5 kit
OD green SBA3

BCM blemished upper receiver
BCM 11.5" CHF barrel w/ BCM gas block
Geissele 10" MK4 Fed rail
Aimpoint T1 on a Larue LT660
MBUS PRO back up irons
56832

[StraitR]

Zeroed in a new DDM4 V7s 11.5" upper this morning. Definitely a blast cannon with standard M193 + Q Cherry Bomb. I have a Whistle Tip on the way, but won't ever shoot it unsuppressed again if I can help it. Using a standard action spring and H2 buffer, it's way overgassed with the can. I'll probably try one of the BRT EZTune gas tubes when the right one comes back in stock.

The SiCo Omega is just 6.5" long with the Plan B, but every pic I take makes it look huge. :)

Happy Independence Day PF.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50076141581_4180bd67e6_b.jpg

[Outlier]

Finally collected all the parts I needed and got the pistol put together. I'm hoping I can get to the range Friday to function check it. This is first upper I have assembled so I'm a bit apprehensive about it.

[Not HighSpeed]

Thought I would add this here for those not watching or considering the LAW folder and how it affects rifle/pistol function.

Took my 11.5" out this weekend to shoot/test/verify it with different buffer weights as had been talked about here since I added the LAW folder.

For specs:

11.5" (all)BCM upper
PSA lower with cmmg lpk
Larue MBT-2S trigger
VLTOR/A5 RE with mil rifle spring and SBA3
H2 and H3 buffers.



It shot pretty much how I expected it to with the H2 considering the barrel length and to check/gauge the reliability of the buffer/Folder combination. I tried the H3 and she shot so smooth I thought I was shooting an airsoft rifle. I also shot his silencerco hybrid 46 suppressor (direct thread), and even with the extra length it still felt very light and maneuverable. Altogether we shot about 300 rounds through it (all 62 grain M855), with no issues. So it looks like continuing the use of an H3 is indeed possible. I plan to do more testing with this combo with a few different ammo types(M193, Mk262, a few other SD loads, etc), and will get back with the data.

Also, now I'm putting together a trust for a suppressor lol.

[theJanitor]

What discreet backpacks or bags are you guys carrying these in? I need one that's 26" inside the bag

[Casual Friday]

What discreet backpacks or bags are you guys carrying these in? I need one that's 26" inside the bag

Vertx Gamut plus for my 11.5" with Law folder. It's only about 23" inside though. The Commuter Sling XL 2.0 is 27". https://vertx.com/commuter-sling-xl-2

[MDFA]

What discreet backpacks or bags are you guys carrying these in? I need one that's 26" inside the bag

I just ordered the Vertx Gamut Overland Backpack for my Springfield Armory Saint Edge Pistol which is 24 3/4 overall.

The Overland main compartment according to the Vertx website is 26.5 by 16 wide and diagonally is 27.5. I'll let you know how it works and include photos once it arrives.

it's $239 on the Vertx website, but if you use the WARPOET discount code you get 25% off.