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View Full Version : Colt M4 Accessories Question....



BaiHu
05-01-2012, 10:26 AM
First off, here's the new addition to the family.

Colt M4 MT6400R
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/djdemarco/20120427_181603.jpg

I have since switched the Eotechs out and they are for sale in the classifieds and replaced it with a Sig Sauer CP1 Prismatic, b/c it takes up less real estate: http://sigsauer.com/SigStore/cp1-prismatic-scope-395.aspx

In addition, the light isn't going to be there, I was just throwing everything I had on there for sh*%s and giggles.

On to my questions:

Any recommendations on pistol grips? I don't like the 'notched' grip it comes with and I have small hands. Size Small in Mechanix.

Any recommendations on butt stocks? I don't have a problem with this current butt stock other than the cheek weld. I'm just at the edge of the butt stock with my cheek weld, so it's just laying on the tube. I'm in NJ, so I can't go 'adjustable' without having someone pin it at a shop, so I don't even know what that means as far as ordering online and then bringing it to the shop.

I have a MagPul MS3 Sling that I like that will be modded to a new sling plate adapter as soon as I get it back to the gunsmith.

I have a Magpul RVG vertical fore grip.

I have C-Products http://lcjwholesalestore.com/AR_Magazines.html that are NJ legal with a magazine that's lanced to 15 rounds, but they don't seem to be dropping freely. Should I get some Magpul adapters in order to pull them free or invest in different mags?

Any advice or critique of my current set up is welcome and no, I'm not married to any particular product, this is what worked for me so far on other carbines I had previously.

Thanks!

rob_s
05-01-2012, 10:30 AM
In terms of pistol grips for smaller hands...

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-GUN-FIGHTER-s-Grip-GFG-Mod-0-Black-p/bcm-gfg-mod-0-black.htm

peterb
05-01-2012, 10:39 AM
One fixed stock option: http://www.thedefensiveedge.com/Sully_Stock_p/sully01.htm
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=69121

No personal experience.

Suvorov
05-01-2012, 10:48 AM
Any recommendations on butt stocks? I don't have a problem with this current butt stock other than the cheek weld. I'm just at the edge of the butt stock with my cheek weld, so it's just laying on the tube. I'm in NJ, so I can't go 'adjustable' without having someone pin it at a shop, so I don't even know what that means as far as ordering online and then bringing it to the shop.

Thanks!

Regarding cheek weld, how far forward do you put your face on the rifle when you shoot? I and most people trained on the M16 family by the military place the tip of our nose next to the charging handle for a consistent cheek weld and to speed up sight alignment. I have noticed most shooters from a civilian background new to the AR platform tend to hold their cheek back on the stock as they would a hunting rifle. On an rifle with the A1 or A2 buttstock, this isn't much of an issue, but as you mentioned with collapsible stock, it can cause real issues with cheek weld. If you are not already using a nose-to charging handle cheek weld, give it a try. I find that by using such a technique, I perceive little difference in cheek weld consistency between the collapsible stock and the fixed stock and thus no need for a stock with an enhanced cheek piece.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSuUTMdojNToPkEwpHx6M1QzcUf1mxXp iJ21p9LLr41s1YAiYTWBmekKkhcCA

Lon
05-01-2012, 10:54 AM
As far as stocks go, it depends on what length you want to run. The Sully Stock from Defensive Edge is the same length as a collapsible stock pulled to the first notch, IIRC. I had one and liked it but wanted something adjustable. If you want a rifle length stock but don't want the standard A1 Or A2 stock I'd go with the new Magpul fixed MOE stock. Hard to beat for the money. Looking at your pic it looks like you are running that stock near full extension.

I have also gone to a somewhat minimalist approach in that I stopped adding a quad rail system to my rifles if it's not needed. For a light and FG I'd go with an MOE setup. Lighter and cheaper.

Al T.
05-01-2012, 12:15 PM
Tango Down makes a very nice smaller grip. I have a couple of them and a couple of Magpuls, both are much, much better than A2 grips.

BaiHu
05-01-2012, 12:30 PM
Regarding cheek weld, how far forward do you put your face on the rifle when you shoot? I and most people trained on the M16 family by the military place the tip of our nose next to the charging handle for a consistent cheek weld and to speed up sight alignment. I have noticed most shooters from a civilian background new to the AR platform tend to hold their cheek back on the stock as they would a hunting rifle. On an rifle with the A1 or A2 buttstock, this isn't much of an issue, but as you mentioned with collapsible stock, it can cause real issues with cheek weld. If you are not already using a nose-to charging handle cheek weld, give it a try. I find that by using such a technique, I perceive little difference in cheek weld consistency between the collapsible stock and the fixed stock and thus no need for a stock with an enhanced cheek piece.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSuUTMdojNToPkEwpHx6M1QzcUf1mxXp iJ21p9LLr41s1YAiYTWBmekKkhcCA

TGS ran me through the nose to charging handle, and I like it, but it puts my cheek off the stock and on the tube. Not sure if I want to change the position on the stock, b/c it fits my shoulder well.

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Suvorov
05-01-2012, 12:39 PM
TGS ran me through the nose to charging handle, and I like it, but it puts my cheek off the stock and on the tube. Not sure if I want to change the position on the stock, b/c it fits my shoulder well.

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It also puts my cheek on the tube which is something I have gotten used to and really doesn't bother me for the kind of shooting I do with a carbine (except when I let my facial hair get a little long and it gets pinched in the sliding stock :eek:). Does it look like you can remove the pin on your stock and change the position of the stock to make it more comfortable with a nose to charging handle cheek weld? Another thing you might be able to do is to place foam padding around the tube between the castle nut at the back of the receiver and the stock which would beef up the area around your cheek and give you a better cheek weld. Just trying to help you avoid the need to spend additional $$$ on a stock that you might not need.

BaiHu
05-01-2012, 01:04 PM
It also puts my cheek on the tube which is something I have gotten used to and really doesn't bother me for the kind of shooting I do with a carbine (except when I let my facial hair get a little long and it gets pinched in the sliding stock :eek:). Does it look like you can remove the pin on your stock and change the position of the stock to make it more comfortable with a nose to charging handle cheek weld? Another thing you might be able to do is to place foam padding around the tube between the castle nut at the back of the receiver and the stock which would beef up the area around your cheek and give you a better cheek weld. Just trying to help you avoid the need to spend additional $$$ on a stock that you might not need.

You make a great point-I really don't care to spend any money on the butt, b/c it is adequate. The only thing I really want to change is the pistol grip.

Any thoughts on magazines??

Any comments on my optic choice? I won't be shooting much further than 100 yds-it's really a plinker for my range or a Zombie killer if need be :D

bdcheung
05-01-2012, 01:18 PM
I've been giving a good hard look at the Aimpoint PRO.

Suvorov
05-01-2012, 01:21 PM
You make a great point-I really don't care to spend any money on the butt, b/c it is adequate. The only thing I really want to change is the pistol grip.

Any thoughts on magazines??

Any comments on my optic choice? I won't be shooting much further than 100 yds-it's really a plinker for my range or a Zombie killer if need be :D

One advantage to being in a ban state is that you could put padding on your buffer tube without affecting its operation.

When it comes to the other questions there are others on this thread that are far more knowledgeable than I am but may not operate in a ban state.

If you are forced to go with reduced capacity magazines, I have found that 20 round P mags with the 10 round limiters and epoxied/riveted for "permanence" are the best option for neutered mags. They are about as reliable as you can get, large enough to allow you to grip them during mag changes, low profile enough to keep them out of the way during bench or prone shooting, and can be assembled for about $18 a pop. I source mine from 44mag.com where they specialize in disassembling them so they can be shipped to ban states.

As far as optics, I really like my Aimpoint PRO for a the excellent cost to performance value it has.

BaiHu
05-01-2012, 01:32 PM
Thanks guys!

JMS
05-01-2012, 01:34 PM
Your optic fits your intended usage/ranges. Even without the magnifier, taking a RDS out to 400m on 16x16 gongs is doable with practice and an understanding that it's an RDS, i.e., a "point" optic, not a "precision" optic.

RE: mags....
Neutered mags are problematic in both pistols and rifles, but the C-Products mags are not even close to being Best of Breed in the normal configuration. I've mostly had problems with welds popping, though the incidences of feed stoppages, before and after swapping to anti-tilt followes, was very disappointing.

That said, before you ditch the ones you have and spend $$$ when you may not need to, see if taking your magazine catch out by a turn allows them to drop freely. It costs nothing, and you can always put it back as it was. Caveat: it's actually pretty unlikely that this is the case, but it's something you can check for yourself.

To do this, push really hard on your magazine release; you may need to use a tool, because you want the bar on the opposite side of the magwell to come out beyond the raised shroud (that keeps it from doing so under normal usage), like so: http://www.flickr.com/photos/itstactical/5759983134/

Rotate that bar one full turn counter-clockwise, then get off the mag release and let it settle back to it's normal position. Try your mags. If they still don't fall, you could repeat and try another rotation or more....just don't unscrew the catch! :D

I've had literally NO students who used neutered mags of any sort....20-rounders, sure, but those were designed that way.....so I have no feedback to give regarding Magpul mags, and the limiters they offer, beyond what you already know: that they're an option. They're a smart option, regardless, because of the way in which they back their products.

Odin Bravo One
05-01-2012, 01:35 PM
Assuming a Dremel tool is not considered illegal in NJ, you can always consider just grinding the existing pistol grip down, and contouring it to the dimensions that fit you. I mean, if you are dead set on buying something, don't let me talk you out of it.

If the stock fits you, why change it? If having your face on the receiver extension bothers you, try a piece of Moleskin. Cheap, and easily replaced. If the $2.99 solution doesn't work, then maybe a different stock is in order.

Can't help you with mags other than to offer that with a carbine, "Drop Free" is not what I would consider a requirement. There are a lot of quality magazines that don't drop free. Part of your TTP's for running the carbine should be to strip every mag, every time. You don't need MagPul followers for this. Just grab the exposed portion of the magazine and pull it out of the gun.

Good call on dumping the EOTech, but I can't comment on the replacement optic as I have never seen one in use, and I have no idea who makes it. Chances are that it will hold up to recreational shooting, but I would have some reservations about putting it to hard use.

Of course, in the end, it all comes down to what you want, what you think you need, and what you want to spend. Everyone will have a little different perception of what is important to them. Identify what is important to you, and go from there.

JMS
05-01-2012, 02:25 PM
but I would have some reservations about putting it to hard use.

That's a more-than-fair assessment of all the optical stuff that Sig offers; the knobs, in particular, like to get pried off if they take a whack against a doorframe, barricade, or similar. They aren't spun glass, but not the most robust of things, either.

BaiHu
05-01-2012, 02:35 PM
Again, thanks! The Sig CP1 has been adequate. I had it on a PS90 and it is perfect for what it is and stupid cheap. I think I got it for $135 and it holds a good zero and it has a good series of powered green with 5 steps of brightness, powered red with the same 5 steps and a basic un-powered black cross hairs. Needless to say I won't be doing any no-knocks with this setup :cool:

TGS
05-01-2012, 02:39 PM
Assuming a Dremel tool is not considered illegal in NJ,

You need to apply for an "Extraneous Tools Permit", pay $65 for fingerprints/SBI, and articulate an immediate, definitive need for the extraneous tool. Permits are issued on a 1 year basis. Tools kept outside of the home, but on property (such as a tool shed) require another permit from your locality for reasons of public safety. Only certain drill bits can be carried on your person; Screw Outs, for example, are strictly prohibited except for lawfully contracted and permitted construction activity on said site. Adjustable angle drill bits are also prohibited if the extraneous tool is battery powered.....if the tool is permanently affixed to a power cable, then it's ok.

Purchase of said tool or attachments are also limited to 1 per 30 day period.

Odin Bravo One
05-01-2012, 03:59 PM
I figured as much.

BaiHu
05-01-2012, 03:59 PM
You need to apply for an "Extraneous Tools Permit", pay $65 for fingerprints/SBI, and articulate an immediate, definitive need for the extraneous tool. Permits are issued on a 1 year basis. Tools kept outside of the home, but on property (such as a tool shed) require another permit from your locality for reasons of public safety. Only certain drill bits can be carried on your person; Screw Outs, for example, are strictly prohibited except for lawfully contracted and permitted construction activity on said site. Adjustable angle drill bits are also prohibited if the extraneous tool is battery powered.....if the tool is permanently affixed to a power cable, then it's ok.

Purchase of said tool or attachments are also limited to 1 per 30 day period.

OMFGISMP!
ISMP: I did something in my pants.

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