Quietest caliber?

[RacerJ]

I know they're all loud enough to damage hearing permanently and mine isn't the greatest at the moment and would like to preserve what I have left. I plan on "doubling up" but I know that some guns are still loud enough to hurt you even if you are taking all the precautions you can. I'm in the market for a handgun and was looking at the Glock 42 but now that this realization has come into play I'm starting completely over. Thank you in advance

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Here are some bits of info I have collected in thinking about this issue:


A longer barrel will probably help this issue more than anything else. As an example, I used to have a keltec sub2000 in .40 (16"bbl) that felt almost hearing safe, like a 22lr rifle but a bit worse. I would imagine a 5" 9mm would be noticably quieter than a 3" .380.

.380 is definitely quieter than 9mm.

Heavier bullets are typically quieter than lighter bullets. This may be because they have less powder to begin with or perhaps because the gasses have not accelerated quite as much since they are pushing a bullet more slowly down the barrel.

Avoid revolvers, the gas escaping from the cylinder gap is significant and some of it is traveling in the general direction of your ears.

Max pressure has a definite correlation with noise level.

Hopefully someone with real expertise drops into this thread, but I hope this helps!

[BillSWPA]

The noise comes from the bullet leaving the barrel, and the resulting release of gas pressure. Lower pressure at the time the bullet exits = less noise. Lower velocity is also likely to correlate to less noise, but far from perfectly.

Longer barrels mean that the pressure curve has had more time to follow the decreasing tail end before the bullet exits the barrel, leading to less noise.

For recreational shooting, .22 pistols would likely be the best choice among handguns. .22 rifles would be quieter. However, they are not so quiet that hearing protection can be skipped. I knew an individual who had significant hearing loss from shooting .22 rifles without hearing protection.



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[OlongJohnson]

This is where I can see value in a PCC with 147gr ammo. Especially if you have to actually use it in a hallway.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

This is where I can see value in a PCC with 147gr ammo. Especially if you have to actually use it in a hallway.

Also a niche application for a .40S&W carbine. In a carbine the greater recoil, higher wear and tear, and lower capacity vs 9mm are all pretty much negligible . 180gr in a penetration-favoring bullet like a 180gr Hornady XTP seems like it would be a good choice.

[Chance]

I plan on "doubling up" but I know that some guns are still loud enough to hurt you even if you are taking all the precautions you can.

Do you mean "loud enough to damage hearing despite multiple layers of ear protection"?

[Wise_A]

I've been shooting for 16 years or so--no hearing loss whatsoever (and still way, way above average). That's after several years of indoor competition, as well.

I think you're looking at the wrong things, to be honest. Here's what I'd do, in order of importance:

*Shoot outdoors. Ideally on a range with no roof or walls. One of my biggest pet peeves is outdoor ranges where the clueless club management decides that since it's cold in January, they're going to close in the firing line on three sides. Does absolutely nothing for the cold, makes the range an order of magnitude louder.

*Avoid sharing the range with noisy, high-pressure guns. Other people shooting .50AEs and .44s is way worse than shooting such things yourself. This is exactly why African hunting guides hate rifles with muzzle brakes--they deafen all the guys who are paid to stand next to the rich idiot.

*Invest in quality hearing protection. On the low side, I just picked up a pair of Howard Leight Leightnings to outfit another range bag, and they're pretty damn good for under $20. On the mid-range, I don't think you can go wrong with either the regular Impact Sport or the Impact Pro, plus a set of Noisefighters. At the high end, there's always the MSA Sordin for ~$230.

*Use eyepro that has a goggle-style elastic band instead of eyeglass arms. This improves the fit of your hearing protection.

*REPLACE OR REFIT YOUR DAMN EAR PRO ON A REGULAR BASIS. Even I'm guilty of this. The gel ear cups wear out, dude. There's a noticeable difference. Refit kits are available from many manufacturers, and the aforementioned Noisefighters are an excellent option for this.

After that, yes--avoid Magnums, perhaps .357 Sig, all the usual suspects. If you reload, maybe switch to a 147-grain subsonic load for 9mm. But beyond that, I don't think it's making much of a difference.

However, the Glock 42 is pretty kickass.

[RacerJ]

Do you mean "loud enough to damage hearing despite multiple layers of ear protection"?

yes at least that's what i thought was possible. I thought that even wearing plugs and over ear protection there were some that could still do damage.

[RacerJ]

Thanks everyone for the advice I knew barrel length did affect it but I really was looking forward to a subcompact to carry. Do you guys think that even if I did go with the G42 and as long as I used subsonic ammo with doubling up and trying to be the only one at the range that it would be safe? And BTW, is subsonic ok for defense situations?

[BN]

I found this that you could put on a threaded barrel. https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Kaw-Valley-Precision-Linear-Comp-9MM-1-2x28-Black-p/kvp-linear-9mm-12x28-blk.htm#pr-header-back-to-top-link

I have a MechTech Glock carbine with something like this on it and it is pretty quiet. It seems to direct the blast down range away from the shooter.

[Alpha Sierra]

I know that some guns are still loud enough to hurt you even if you are taking all the precautions you can.

Outside of possibly a USPSA open gun shooting 38 SuperComp indoors, I'm pretty sure you're mistaken.

[Clusterfrack]

Double ear pro: good to go for pretty much any small arms.

But get good muffs, and make sure your plugs are properly inserted.

[Chance]

yes at least that's what i thought was possible. I thought that even wearing plugs and over ear protection there were some that could still do damage.

Quality, properly fitted ear plugs beneath quality, properly fitted ear muffs would be fine for pretty much any range you'd be shooting at or firearm you'd be shooting, especially pistols. Someone more knowledgeable than I would have to comment on decibel ratings and so forth, but unless you're firing a howitzer or something, you're good.

[JAD]

Thanks everyone for the advice I knew barrel length did affect it but I really was looking forward to a subcompact to carry. Do you guys think that even if I did go with the G42 and as long as I used subsonic ammo with doubling up and trying to be the only one at the range that it would be safe? And BTW, is subsonic ok for defense situations?

.380 is not really a good choice for defense. Some folks carry it as a backup to a service pistol, but 9mm (9x19, parabellum, Luger) is the baseline. Many of us here carry a compact service pistol (Glock 19, Colt Commander, that size) on a daily basis — because they’re effective, but more so because we can be most effective with them.

[BillSWPA]

Re: ear protection: I am quite happy with a good set of earmuffs outdoors or if everyone is only shooting handguns indoors. I double up with muffs and plugs indoors when people are shooting anything particularly loud. My daughter, who is especially sensitive to sound, doubles up all the time.

I have sometimes kept electronic hearing protection in the bedroom for both my wife and myself, knowing that after gunfire indoors, without hearing protection, ears might be ringing and communication with others in the house might otherwise be impeded.


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[RevolverRob]

FYI: When folks say “properly fitted” hearing protection there are a few things to know.

1) Muffs that cover the ear, should have cups that seal around the arms of your shooting/vision glasses. Most foam cups will not do this and will gap. Gaps allow noise in and reduce the efficacy of the device.

2) Earplugs - soft, pliable, foam that is compressed down and inserted into the ear canal. The foam should “reinflate” and when you put the plugs in it should sound like someone has turned down the volume.

I mostly use plugs when outdoors and plugs + muffs indoors. Muffs tend to not seal well around the frames of my eye glasses resulting in a need to have two types of hearing protection. The reason plugs alone are often insufficient indoors is due to echo.

[Totem Polar]

yes at least that's what i thought was possible. I thought that even wearing plugs and over ear protection there were some that could still do damage.

If you want to read something mildly disturbing, check out this article, and the formula for determining the actual reduction of sound from the printed NRR:

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/9/6/everything-you-need-to-know-about-noise-reduction-ratings/

Put simply, the higher the NRR number, the more effective it will be at reducing noise. But, the NRR does not measure the amount of decibels being reduced. To figure that out, subtract 7 from the NRR and divide by 2. For example, if your hearing protection has a 33 NRR, the actual amount of noise reduction you will experience is 13 decibels (33-7=26, 26/2=13). So, if you are at a place where 100-decibel noise is the norm, with 33 NRR hearing protection on, your noise level will be attenuated to 87 decibels.

.25 ACP – 155.0 dB
.32 LONG – 152.4 dB
.32 ACP – 153.5 dB
.380 – 157.7 dB
9mm – 159.8 dB
.38 S&W – 153.5 dB
.38 Spl – 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum – 164.3 dB
.40 S&W – 156.5 dB
.41 Magnum – 163.2 dB
.44 S&W Magnum – 164.5 dB
.44 Spl – 155.9 dB
.45 ACP – 157.0 dB
.45 COLT – 154.7 dB
12 Gauge Shotgun – 155 dB
.22 Pistol or Rifle – 140 dB
M-16 – 160 dB


So, if you have those howard leight pros, you’re getting a true 13 db; add some foam plugs, and it’s another 12-13db. Call it 26db. Now look at, say, the .357 magnum. The only saving grace is that the duration is so short.

Bottom line, if you are not doubling up, especially indoors, you are fucking up.


https://www.oshatrain.org/courses/images/750/20170818_002_750_noise_sound_levels.png

[gringop]

For indoor ranges where I don't have to hear a timer or competition SO range commands, Big Honking Peltor muffs like this and disposable in ear foam plugs.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BGHVPYK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

These use to be called Ultimate 10, I had a few pair but over 15 years they got old and deteriorated. I bought 2 new pair of these back in Nov and they are my goto's for running gas yard tools and If I ever go to an indoor range again in my life, I will use these and foamies.

For practicing pistol at my outdoor club that still has an overhead and an eyebrow to reflect sound back at you, some Howard Light Impact Pros, plus a set of Noisefighters and foamies that have one ear loosened a little. This allows me to hear timer beeps and not too much blast from the pistol.

For practicing centerfire rifle at my outdoor club, shotgun low profile muffs like this and foamies. I can't get a good cheek weld with normal sized muffs.
https://www.amazon.com/Peltor-Shotgunner-Low-Profile-Protector-Protection/dp/B01BGHVQ1M

For practicing rimfire at my outdoor club or shooting pistol competition out in the open, just the Howard Light Impact Pros. For shooting centerfire rifle competition out in the open, I will go with the the shotgun low profile muffs while I am shooting and Howard Light Impact Pros when i am not.

Like most things in life, it's tradeoff. Wear the highest ear protection possible while managing your environment and firearms.

[farscott]

There is no one quietest caliber as the actual loading determines the sound pressure level. There are six main factors: temperature (the speed of sound changes with temperature and humidity), the pressure of the gas leaving the firearm, action type (bolt actions are typically quieter than autoloading actions), the direction of the gas leaving the firearm (comped guns can be really loud), the size of the bore, and the speed of the projectile. For example, there are .22 LR rounds that are hearing safe without a suppressor (namely CCI's .22 Quiet) and ones that will damage hearing.

It is also important to remember that the dB scale means one level that is 3dB louder has twice as much pressure while it takes roughly 10dB more for a person too say the volume has doubled. dB is a logarithmic ratio, not a unit of measure (so the unit at the end is key). For example, I use dBm in my work, where the "m means "milliwatt".

0dBm is 1mW
3dBm is 2mW
6dBm is 4mW
10dBm is 10mW
20dBm is 100mW
30dBm is 1000mW (1W)

So a small difference in SPL in dB can be a very large difference in hearing damage.

[Nephrology]

I know they're all loud enough to damage hearing permanently and mine isn't the greatest at the moment and would like to preserve what I have left. I plan on "doubling up" but I know that some guns are still loud enough to hurt you even if you are taking all the precautions you can. I'm in the market for a handgun and was looking at the Glock 42 but now that this realization has come into play I'm starting completely over. Thank you in advance

If you double up with good ear protection you won't have an issue. I don't think skewing your caliber selection will help you unless you are OK sticking to rimfire. Otherwise all centerfire duty cartridges will be pretty close, ditto for all intermediate rifle cartirdges etc.

Might be worth looking into buying suppressors. That is my plan once finances open up.

[AdioSS]

CCI CB 22 Shorts out of my grandfather’s Winchester Model 1906 HAVE TO be hearing safe. They’re rated at 710fps, and 1906 is a pump. Plus, they are so short I can fit 16 rounds in the tube magazine +1 in the chamber for 17 rounds in an old pump that slam fires.
I would bet they are even hearing safe out of my 6.5” barrel Heritage Rough Rider pistol. It is pretty much just the primer propellant pushing the 29gr bullet.

[Totem Polar]

Otherwise all centerfire duty cartridges will be pretty close, ditto for all intermediate rifle cartirdges etc..
I don’t agree. I think there is a big difference in danger between going to the range once a week to shoot .380 acp and going once a week to shoot .327 federal. My ears are pretty trashed from a lifetime of both shooting and music performance, and I will say that I no longer shoot magnum cartridges indoors. A cylinder or two of .357 really gets my tinnitus going, while .380, all .38 and .45acp are no problem. 9mm+P is fatiguing; standard 9mm is right on the edge for me.

[Wise_A]

If you want to read something mildly disturbing, check out this article, and the formula for determining the actual reduction of sound from the printed NRR:

I'm always skeptical of NRR--it's just a single number. It doesn't describe frequency at all. Just glancing at the back of my Leightnings' packaging, the average attenuation between 500mHz and 2000mHz--which would cover the peak of "small-arms" fire--ranges from 29.4db to 32.4db. Remember also that the decibel rating system isn't linear, it's based on orders of magnitude. Hence why the numbers for different calibers are so close, and why hearing protection with just slightly better stats gives much better apparent noise reduction.

That said, I would caution that you don't need to hear the noise to actually damage your hearing. Hence why I think using "work-grade" earpro is dumb. And you know those classic boomers that just crank down their hearing aids to shoot? Yeah, they're wrecking what's left of their hearing in short order. I know guys that have noticeably lost hearing doing that.

But, at the end of the day, I'm not worried. I wear decent stuff, I don't do stupid things. I figure if Givens and Jedlinski aren't going deaf standing around for a couple hundred thousand rounds a year, then I won't either, presuming I keep taking precautions. And, of course, super-ditto on avoiding indoor ranges and enclosed outdoor ranges.

It astonishes me just how careless people are with their earpro, tho. Once I really started paying attention to it, I realized most of the people I shoot with have poorly-fit hearing protection. We're talking visible gaps caused by eyeglasses and eyepro. Hell, I know one old moron that uses a pair of over-the-ear radio headphones as "hearing protection". Fucker is half-deaf. It would be fine, because I hate him anyway, but now he's much louder whenever I have to listen to him.

[RJ]

If you want to read something mildly disturbing, check out this article, and the formula for determining the actual reduction of sound from the printed NRR:

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/9/6/everything-you-need-to-know-about-noise-reduction-ratings/

Put simply, the higher the NRR number, the more effective it will be at reducing noise. But, the NRR does not measure the amount of decibels being reduced. To figure that out, subtract 7 from the NRR and divide by 2. For example, if your hearing protection has a 33 NRR, the actual amount of noise reduction you will experience is 13 decibels (33-7=26, 26/2=13). So, if you are at a place where 100-decibel noise is the norm, with 33 NRR hearing protection on, your noise level will be attenuated to 87 decibels.

.25 ACP – 155.0 dB
.32 LONG – 152.4 dB
.32 ACP – 153.5 dB
.380 – 157.7 dB
9mm – 159.8 dB
.38 S&W – 153.5 dB
.38 Spl – 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum – 164.3 dB
.40 S&W – 156.5 dB
.41 Magnum – 163.2 dB
.44 S&W Magnum – 164.5 dB
.44 Spl – 155.9 dB
.45 ACP – 157.0 dB
.45 COLT – 154.7 dB
12 Gauge Shotgun – 155 dB
.22 Pistol or Rifle – 140 dB
M-16 – 160 dB


So, if you have those howard leight pros, you’re getting a true 13 db; add some foam plugs, and it’s another 12-13db. Call it 26db. Now look at, say, the .357 magnum. The only saving grace is that the duration is so short.

Bottom line, if you are not doubling up, especially indoors, you are fucking up.


https://www.oshatrain.org/courses/images/750/20170818_002_750_noise_sound_levels.png

ME EE here with a speciality in acoustics, speech and signal processing.

This is pretty much spot on.

[RJ]

There is no one quietest caliber as the actual loading determines the sound pressure level. There are six main factors: temperature (the speed of sound changes with temperature and humidity), the pressure of the gas leaving the firearm, action type (bolt actions are typically quieter than autoloading actions), the direction of the gas leaving the firearm (comped guns can be really loud), the size of the bore, and the speed of the projectile. For example, there are .22 LR rounds that are hearing safe without a suppressor (namely CCI's .22 Quiet) and ones that will damage hearing.

It is also important to remember that the dB scale means one level that is 3dB louder has twice as much pressure while it takes roughly 10dB more for a person too say the volume has doubled. dB is a logarithmic ratio, not a unit of measure (so the unit at the end is key). For example, I use dBm in my work, where the "m means "milliwatt".

0dBm is 1mW
3dBm is 2mW
6dBm is 4mW
10dBm is 10mW
20dBm is 100mW
30dBm is 1000mW (1W)

So a small difference in SPL in dB can be a very large difference in hearing damage.

I like this post also. :)

[Nephrology]

I don’t agree. I think there is a big difference in danger between going to the range once a week to shoot .380 acp and going once a week to shoot .327 federal. My ears are pretty trashed from a lifetime of both shooting and music performance, and I will say that I no longer shoot magnum cartridges indoors. A cylinder or two of .357 really gets my tinnitus going, while .380, all .38 and .45acp are no problem. 9mm+P is fatiguing; standard 9mm is right on the edge for me.

Apples to oranges; I wouldn't consider .357 (or any other magnum pistol cartridges) to be in the same family as duty calibers (9mm, .40, .45).

Personally don't notice a big difference in noise from 9mm +P vs standard pressure but I mostly shoot outdoors. Have obviously never done any measurements.

[Totem Polar]

Apples to oranges; I wouldn't consider .357 (or any other magnum pistol cartridges) to be in the same family as duty calibers (9mm, .40, .45).

Personally don't notice a big difference in noise from 9mm +P vs standard pressure but I mostly shoot outdoors. Have obviously never done any measurements.

Well, since I own a db meter, I’ll see about taking care of the measurement thing. I can tell you that .45acp indoors is less sound pressure than 9mm indoors.

[pew_pew]

It’s pressure and supersonic that makes it louder, or at least appears to be louder. 45acp is actually quieter then 9mm because lower pressure and the standard load is subsonic.

147g 9mm is quieter then 115g. Longer barrels are quieter too.

[Robinson]

Some good advice in the thread already regarding doubling up with quality hearing protection. Always double up when shooting indoors, for most shooting use muffs with a high NRR rating, and if possibly use the type that allow installation of gel cups that seal around the stems of your shooting glasses.

Personally, I perceive more concussive blast from a 45 than a 9mm. But based on measurement, 9mm is louder than 45. Revolvers are definitely louder than auto loaders, and short barrels can be much louder than longer ones. That's one reason I tend to shoot and use full size guns with long barrels. I shoot 45 mostly, and have just started shooting some 38 Super again after years without one. When I shoot my rifle it is always with a suppressor.

I have hearing damage and tinnitus, and I often wonder if I am further damaging my hearing by continuing to shoot at all. I don't plan to stop shooting any time soon, but I always have that concern hanging over me.

One last thought -- it was a .44 Special revolver fired outdoors to my left that caused most of the damage to my ears. So it's not just magnums or shooting indoors that you have to worry about.

[Jaywalker]

Here's an interesting briefing from Larson Davis Laboratories focusing on sound pressure, suppressors, barrel length: http://www.larsondavis.com/ContentStore/mktg/LD_Docs/Firearm_Sound_Briefing.pdf

Among other things, they say a ballistic crack of a bullet is not a source of hearing damage as it's downrange and follows the bullet, unless the sound reflects off an object and back at the shooter.

Most importantly, "As was to be expected, the bore pressure at the instant of bullet uncorking correlated almost perfectly with the non-suppressed sound pressure level (dBA)." I take this to be the single most critical aspect. Reduce the pressure at uncorking - lower pressure round, suppressor, longer barrel - to reduce hearing effects.

The context is MIL-STD-1474D Department of Defense Design Criteria Standard Noise Limits 1997.

[Catshooter]

The quietest factory-loaded handgun would be a .45 ACP with a long barrel. The smaller the bore, the louder. The higher the pressure peak, the louder.

Handloading is a complete game changer though. And so are suppressors.

Absolute worst in my experience is a short barreled .357 mag. Fearsome.


Cat