Federal HST 9mm question on new box

[Gyaj]

Hello,
I'm fairly new to firearms and have a question about some ammo I purchased online. I carry Federal HST 124gr 9mm which I usually buy from the local big box store. I decided to try the 50 count box from an online store and noticed they look different. There is a pink/purple color around the where the primer is and also where the bullet meets the case. Is this normal? The 20 count box I get locally is clean all around. Thanks in advance.
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20 count rounds on the right
50 count rounds on the left

[LtDave]

The 50 round boxes are likely for law enforcement sales and have sealant around the bullet and primer to make the ammo more waterproof. They should be GTG.

[fly out]

Happily pocket your savings and don't look back...you never have to pony up for the little engagement ring boxes again.

[Gyaj]

Lol, thanks guys!

[RJ]

I’m also pretty new, but your pictures look pretty much like every HST round I’ve bought from online sources like www.sgammo.com or www.targetsportsusa.com in 50 round boxes.

PS Welcome to Pistol-forum.

[GyroF-16]

I’m impressed that any “big box” store carries HST.
All I ever see in any retail setting in my AO is Hydra-Shok.
Pretty much nothing on Doc’s list.

[Joe in PNG]

I’m impressed that any “big box” store carries HST.
All I ever see in any retail setting in my AO is Hydra-Shok.
Pretty much nothing on Doc’s list.

It's tpically either "Remember the 80's?" or blisterpac gimmick ammo.

[OlongJohnson]

I wasn't aware the consumer packs lacked sealant.

There are jurisdictions (certain cities in the SF Bay Area come to mind) that prohibit civilians possessing ammo marked for sale to law enforcement. It's actually kinda convenient if one can easily tell the consumer-channel stuff from the more-equal-than-others stuff on ammo that should be otherwise identical.

[fly out]

HST is readily available here, bricks and mortar, but in the little plastic boxes, not the 50-round cardboard. The last interesting 50-round cardboard box I bought face to face was LE9T1, and that was at a small-box store...really an LGS. And you could argue that LE9T1 isn't all that interesting.

Thank goodness for our favorite online sources.

[GAP]

I believe the reddish sealant is on their newest batches of ammo. I’ve shot through plenty of 50 round boxes of HSTs in the past that did not have sealant. However, all of my newer 50 round boxes, do have it.

[echo5charlie]

I believe the reddish sealant is on their newest batches of ammo. I’ve shot through plenty of 50 round boxes of HSTs in the past that did not have sealant. However, all of my newer 50 round boxes, do have it.

I have noticed this as well. We carry the 50 count LE boxes and didn't see the colored sealant until our last restock which was over the summer.

[Moonshot]

I believe the reddish sealant is on their newest batches of ammo. I’ve shot through plenty of 50 round boxes of HSTs in the past that did not have sealant. However, all of my newer 50 round boxes, do have it.


Same here. I’ve still got several 50 round boxes of 147gr standard pressure that either doesn’t have sealant or used a clear sealant. Not sure how to tell which, or if it matters. I’ve been told that both scenarios are possible. Newer 147gr has the red sealant.

Newer 147s also have the shallower and shorter skives, I’ve been told to reduce the rather dramatic expansion but increase penetration. Not sure if that matters either.

[GAP]

Same here. I’ve still got several 50 round boxes of 147gr standard pressure that either doesn’t have sealant or used a clear sealant. Not sure how to tell which, or if it matters. I’ve been told that both scenarios are possible. Newer 147gr has the red sealant.

Newer 147s also have the shallower and shorter skives, I’ve been told to reduce the rather dramatic expansion but increase penetration. Not sure if that matters either.

Interesting, the 147gr already has massive expansion so I’d rather a bit more penetration (if I had the option).

[Sauer Koch]

I just got a case of 124 HST from SG, and they have blue sealant. Also, the boxes are about 1/2 inch longer.

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[witchking777]

Same here. I’ve still got several 50 round boxes of 147gr standard pressure that either doesn’t have sealant or used a clear sealant. Not sure how to tell which, or if it matters. I’ve been told that both scenarios are possible. Newer 147gr has the red sealant.

Newer 147s also have the shallower and shorter skives, I’ve been told to reduce the rather dramatic expansion but increase penetration. Not sure if that matters either.

The newer 147 gr HST also has a double cannelure to help with core/jacket separation. In my unofficial windshield test at 10 yds there was zero deflection, bullet went through the windshield,front seat, back seat,and ended up in in a pile of clothes in the trunk. My favorite round for sure.

[Moonshot]

The newer 147 gr HST also has a double cannelure to help with core/jacket separation. In my unofficial windshield test at 10 yds there was zero deflection, bullet went through the windshield,front seat, back seat,and ended up in in a pile of clothes in the trunk. My favorite round for sure.

OK, this is way above my knowledge base, and may be a question best addressed by the doctor, but is there enough of an advantage to these newer HSTs (sealant, greater penetration at the cost of some expansion, better AG performance) to warrant using up any old stash and moving to all new, or is this just an incremental modification to what is already one of the best rounds out there and it really doesn't matter which version is in your magazine.

[JBP55]

OK, this is way above my knowledge base, and may be a question best addressed by the doctor, but is there enough of an advantage to these newer HSTs (sealant, greater penetration at the cost of some expansion, better AG performance) to warrant using up any old stash and moving to all new, or is this just an incremental modification to what is already one of the best rounds out there and it really doesn't matter which version is in your magazine.

I purchased 3 cases of the newer 147gr. HST in 2019 and have been shooting my older HST rounds.

[EVP]

OK, this is way above my knowledge base, and may be a question best addressed by the doctor, but is there enough of an advantage to these newer HSTs (sealant, greater penetration at the cost of some expansion, better AG performance) to warrant using up any old stash and moving to all new, or is this just an incremental modification to what is already one of the best rounds out there and it really doesn't matter which version is in your magazine.

I honestly would not give it a second thought. Use your old carry ammo when verifying function and POA/POI and drive on.

Like Doc mentions(paraphrased), pick something on the list, buy it in bulk and stop thinking about the small and insignificant differences between bullets. Small production changes along the way donÂ’t make the previous HSTs any less of a performer.

But on the flip side, practicing with your carry load is always a good thing so if you want to use your current stuff and buy new then by all means do so.

[witchking777]

OK, this is way above my knowledge base, and may be a question best addressed by the doctor, but is there enough of an advantage to these newer HSTs (sealant, greater penetration at the cost of some expansion, better AG performance) to warrant using up any old stash and moving to all new, or is this just an incremental modification to what is already one of the best rounds out there and it really doesn't matter which version is in your magazine.

Unless you have 1,000 rounds of the old stuff I'd order enough of the newer stuff to test POA/POI and carry it instead. The gentleman at Federal I talked to said with the updated double cannelure auto glass separation went from 1 in 100 to 1 in 1,000. That,combined with deeper penetration (which we should all know is more important than expansion), and sealant makes it a good idea IMO. One thing to bear in mind (that I've discovered anyway) is that a pistol bullet that expands and has the expanded petals curl behind the base of the bullet,seems to more easily deflect when striking bone/hard surface etc. The shallower/shorter skives on the latest 147 in my own 4 layer denim test per the old IWBA standard allowed it to have great expansion and yet keep the petals from curling around the bullet base,thus leading to deeper and more straightforward penetration.

[jd950]

I generally get ammo online. I checked with SG and a couple others and they cannot tell me if what they have in stock is this newer stuff, or the older and no one even seems to know of any changes. They say it is probably just a difference due to federal moving its HST production to a CCI facility.

Anyone have any suggestions at how one can be sure that 9mm 147gr HST ordered on line is the newer stuff? I would like to try some.

[frozentundra]

I generally get ammo online. I checked with SG and a couple others and they cannot tell me if what they have in stock is this newer stuff, or the older and no one even seems to know of any changes. They say it is probably just a difference due to federal moving its HST production to a CCI facility.

Anyone have any suggestions at how one can be sure that 9mm 147gr HST ordered on line is the newer stuff? I would like to try some.

I just ordered some 147 HST (P9HST2) from Target Sports yesterday. If you tell me what to look for, I'll let you know when it arrives.

[jd950]

My only information is what I have read here, apparently two cannelures and a change in the bullet skives. I guess the box (assuming you ordered the 50 round box) is also a bit larger than the old box, if you have one of those around to compare. I cannot recall if federal puts dates on the boxes or just lot numbers, so I have no idea if that helps. I will be interested in your comments.

[frozentundra]

My only information is what I have read here, apparently two cannelures and a change in the bullet skives. I guess the box (assuming you ordered the 50 round box) is also a bit larger than the old box, if you have one of those around to compare. I cannot recall if federal puts dates on the boxes or just lot numbers, so I have no idea if that helps. I will be interested in your comments.

It's a longer box, has blue sealant, and the bullet itself looks a little different from the top view. I'm actually a little disappointed, honestly. I've got a bunch of the older ammo through my guns and it has always run well. I know the performance of the old stuff was regarded as having a proven performance record in real world use. I wasn't looking to upgrade to something new and different if the old stuff was working plenty good enough.

Ah well, such is life.

New one is on the top in all images.

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[SCCY Marshal]

I got some in from Target Sports USA yesterday. It turned out to be the new revision with blue sealant. The sealant was also present on my 230 grain 45 ACP +P and 180 grain forty that were in the same shipment. The 40 S&W was particularly interesting to me. Just the other week, I had ordered a box of 180 grain HST with some spare cash and it arrived in a smaller box without the primer sealant.

Started vetting the new style 147gr in the household nines to be on the safe side as it is different than when we first gave it a trial.

[jd950]

Thanks for the update. As it happens, I was in a local police supply the other day and they had some HST in the larger boxes. I looked at it and it was identical to what I have now. Bullets looked same, no visible sealant, etc. I am not sure it really makes any difference anyway but am curious about the changes. I guess we need someone with connection to an LE rep to try and get the answer as to whether there has actually been a change performance-wise or if it is just typical changes in manufacturing that occurs over time.

[WDR]

FYI, the larger boxes/plastic trays and blue sealant are typical with Speer Gold Dot and/or CCI packaging. I would guess the ammo is still GTG, but I don't like it when running changes are made. One reason I like to buy a full 500-1000 rounds of a known good ammo, and stick with it.

[Moonshot]

Just picked up a couple of 50 round boxes of P9HST2 to test for function in a couple of platforms. Blue primer sealant, couldn’t tell if case mouth had sealant. Obviously couldn’t tell if there was a 2nd canneleur. Skives were shorter and narrower than on the older version (about like the original 124gr HST).

I have no idea if any of these changes make any kind of difference. My guess is they do not, just tweaking a bit.

[10mmfanboy]

Huh, I just ordered 3 boxes of 50 hst 124, I wonder which version I am getting. I've never had a problem with carry ammo being affected by the environment with or without the sealant. But if they are using cannelures and primer sealant, I'm wondering if they are doing it because critical duty has been doing that for years. I am all for it if they don't jack up cost because of the "upgrades"

[10mmfanboy]

All 3 boxes of 50 124 gn HST are the newer ones. Sealed around case mouth and primers.

The box containing the ammo also had a stamp saying cartridges small arms. I don't remember that being on the Package before, but it's been awhile. The ups man also wouldn't let me sign for it. He said he will sign it because he didn't want anyone touching his scanner. Bonus!

[gruntjim]

I did get some in the new box, with blue sealant on the primers.

I couldn't do any ballistic testing, but it felt hotter than the earlier ones, with no difference in accuracy.

Part of me wonders if Federal isn't hotting up the 147's, and since they dropped the +P variant, there's no need for redundant loading.

I realize this is thread drift, but I'm seeing something similar with .45 HST, in that the newer standard pressure actually feels hotter than the old +P variant, and I'm getting flattened primers in the new standard pressure.

[SkippySanchez]

I know this thread is a year old, but I was wondering about this box of 9mm 124gr +P HST I picked up about six months ago for about $30. I've got quite a bit of HST on hand, mostly 147gr, in the aforementioned larger and smaller boxes but I've not seen this before.

Any idea how old it is? Probably not very old because I think Federal's HST is a relatively new product.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210504/2d8f8153c24b615a0cdd7d6fd0a63e2a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210504/8f8ef6f60ccb1731897d8d85110abefb.jpg

_________________
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

[Joe Mac]

I know this thread is a year old, but I was wondering about this box of 9mm 124gr +P HST I picked up about six months ago for about $30. I've got quite a bit of HST on hand, mostly 147gr, in the aforementioned larger and smaller boxes but I've not seen this before.

Any idea how old it is? Probably not very old because I think Federal's HST is a relatively new product.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210504/2d8f8153c24b615a0cdd7d6fd0a63e2a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210504/8f8ef6f60ccb1731897d8d85110abefb.jpg


HST isn't new; it's been around for >15 years. That does look like the latest box style, though -- I first saw that box with a shipment I bought in the last 6-8 months.

[revchuck38]

Yup, that's the new box.

[JBP55]

Yup, that's the new box.

What he said.