Check-Mate P320 New 17 Round Magazines

[JonInWA]



Recently we had a multi-page thread concerning perceived issues with Check-Mate produced 17 round magazines for the SIG-Sauer P320 pistol;
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?39405-Checkmate-320-magazines

As a Pistol-Forum member (and pretty active contributor), a member of the Check-Mate factory team, an IDPA participant, and as a leader of a church security team for a mid-to-large-size Seattle metro church, I had some personal interest in the thread.  As a recent winner of the NSSF Gearbox contest, where part of my prize package was a P320 RX, my interest became even more accentuated. 

I forwarded the thread on to Joe DeBello and Jacquelyn Santoro, respectively Check-Mate's President/CEO and Vice President and Director of Legal Affairs.  I've known both of them for over 12 years, and I've been extremely impressed with their concern for their products and integrity-both personal integrity and concern for the integrity of their products.

SIG actually has 3 outside vendors providing magazines for the P320-MecGar (who's magazines have a "Made in Italy" tube rollmark; Check-Mate, whose magazines are rollmarked with "Made in USA" followed by a "C" in a square box; and a third US vendor, whose are rollmarked "Made in USA" with a "J" in a square box.  So-just because the magazine is rollmarked "Made in USA" doesn't automatically make it a Check-Mate magazine.

However, Check-Mate, after a gap of about a year or so, has just resumed production of P320 magazines for SIG-Sauer.  These magazines, whose components are manufactured in Check-Mate’s New York plant and assembled in Check-Mate's new Georgia facility, feature an even matte finish with Henning Group aluminum extended basepads, are primarily intended for P320 X-grip module pistols (the Henning Group basepads won't fit in the standard P320 grip modules; for the magazines to work, the Henning Group basepad will need to be replaced with the standard P320 basepad; (or with Gray Gun's new hard use standard-profile basepad, available from both Gray Guns and the SIG webstore should fit-I have one on order to verify).

My initial testing of the new Check-Mate magazines has shown my examples to have excellent construction, fit and finish-equal to the MecGar ones that I have.  I, and several others (including some p-f members) are testing them-and our examples are not cherry-picked, they're fresh standard production run items (so much so that Joe DeBello wanted me to run an immediate test on their arrival to me to see if there were any issues or red flags)(there weren't).

This thread will track our results and discussions concerning the magazines, with no punches pulled. If there are others of you that are interested in participating in the test, currently have a P320 and are willing to run the magazines, send me a PM and I’ll coordinate and see what can be done.

Additionally, Check-Mate is well aware of the caliber of p-f participants, particularly those involved in this and the previous thread discussions. For any participants that have experienced operational issues with their Check-Mate P320 magazines, Check-Mate will provide a one-for-one exchange; the point of contact to effect the exchange will be info@checkmateindustries.com, and, if there are any concerns that members feel would warrant a personal discussion, Jackie Santoro has told me that you’re welcome to contact her directly by email at jackie@checkmateindustries.com.

Mine will be aggressively used in all of my shooting venues; the Law of Unintended Consequences apparently will make 2020 the Year Of the P320 for JonInWA...Last Sunday, two days ago, FWIW I ran them in an intensive training course with absolutely zero issues, and the magazines were loaded to full capacity and repeatedly ejected onto a hard cement deck throughout the training. Ammunition used throughout was Sellier & Bellot 124 gr ball.

Best, Jon

[TheNewbie]

I don’t have a P320, but just wanted to say I am impressed with this post. Your contributions are much appreciated.

Good luck in the endeavor and I hope it goes well.

[Tokarev]

Thanks for the info.

Any word on who made this one? No J or C suffixes.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200107/6945aeeffe9df85a4fd4e3fde6c5140c.jpg

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[JonInWA]

It's a bit tricky, as the earlier production contract magazines apparently did not have a manufacturer distinguishing rollmark. I'm betting yours has the earlier round basepad/inner baseplate retaining peg, not the current square one, but I'm not sure specifically who the manufacturer was.

If you've encountered problems with it, I'd suggest querying Check-Mate (or Jackie at Check-Mate) at the links provided in the initial thread post; if it's theirs, and if you've had issues, they'll exchange and replace with one of the new ones.

Best, Jon

[ArgentFix]

deleted

[cornstalker]

Excellent. Thanks for doing this.

To be clear, this is specifically for the 17 round mags, correct?

Has anyone here had complaints about the 15 round mags?

[tlong17]

Excellent post. I can say that while I’ve only used the MecGar mags for carry (15 rd for xcompact), the CheckMate 17 rd that came with the legion have been flawless thus far (2k+).

Thanks again for the quality post. It sounds like they really care. Their 365 mags have also been great!

[JonInWA]

Excellent. Thanks for doing this.

To be clear, this is specifically for the 17 round mags, correct?

Has anyone here had complaints about the 15 round mags?

This thread is primarily about the 17 round magazines, as there the ones that Check-Mate produces for SIG-Sauer to the best of my knowledge, all the 15 round magazines for the P320 are made by Mec-Gar; Check-Mate has only been manufacturing the 17 rounders for SIG-Sauer P320.

Personally, I concurrently have 4 of the 15 round Mec-Gar 15 round magazines, as my P320 originally came as a P320 RX Compact. They performed flawlessly. One of the nice things about the modularity of the P320 is the ability to easily switch between different grip modules and configurations-and similar slide and caliber switching can also be done.

Best, Jon

[Balisong]

I don’t have a P320, but just wanted to say I am impressed with this post. Your contributions are much appreciated.

Good luck in the endeavor and I hope it goes well.

I wanted to echo this sentiment, and I also think your bigwig friends at Checkmate deserve a hell of a kudos for listening to a switched on customer base and taking the time to read these threads. Not to mention having the integrity to have you publically post results here to help them identify issues and perfect their product. That says a lot about a company and I'd gladly throw some support their way if I hadn't gotten out of P320s. I will be watching the thread with interest and wishing CM the best!

[LockedBreech]

Very impressive contribution to the forum, which par for the course with your posts.

[cornstalker]

This thread is primarily about the 17 round magazines, as there the ones that Check-Mate produces for SIG-Sauer to the best of my knowledge, all the 15 round magazines for the P320 are made by Mec-Gar; Check-Mate has only been manufacturing the 17 rounders for SIG-Sauer P320.

Personally, I concurrently have 4 of the 15 round Mec-Gar 15 round magazines, as my P320 originally came as a P320 RX Compact. They performed flawlessly. One of the nice things about the modularity of the P320 is the ability to easily switch between different grip modules and configurations-and similar slide and caliber switching can also be done.

Best, Jon

Thanks for the info. I have 11 15 round mags. 9 are made in Italy, two are US made with no additional marks to indicate who manufactured them. Haven't had a problem with any of them.

I will quit being a distraction now and observe the results.

Thanks again for doing this.

[JonInWA]

Thanks for the info. I have 11 15 round mags. 9 are made in Italy, two are US made with no additional marks to indicate who manufactured them. Haven't had a problem with any of them.

I will quit being a distraction now and observe the results.

Thanks again for doing this.

You're hardly a distraction-and thanks for the comments.

Best, Jon

[98z28]

Excellent! Thank you for doing this. I too have segregated my 320 magazines: made in Italy for carry and made in USA for the range. I've only got a few thousand training rounds in, but the USA-marked mags have performed without fail in training (weekly), USPSA matches (only a couple), and classes (a few). I'm looking forward to reading others' experiences.

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[GJM]

As probably already stated, the 320 X5 came with four 21 round magazines, marked made in Italy, and presumably made by MecGar. They are excellent magazines and are the bulk of what my wife and friends use. The new 320 Legions we have, came with three seventeen round magazines with Henning baseplates, and have a “C” on them. I understand they are made by Checkmate. We have experienced enough problems with them, especially if loaded to seventeen rounds, that we relegate them to practice. Jon was nice enough to send us four of the new Checkmate magazines, and today my wife shot them for the first time. She loaded them right up to seventeen rounds, and so far they functioned perfectly. She will continue to use them for practice, so we should get a bunch of data on them quickly.

[JonInWA]

There are some very specific improvements to these new magazines that I suspect have addressed and eradicated the issues with the previous production 17 round magazines. (And no, I can't discuss exactly what the improvements are, so don't attempt to further interrogate me on 'em....)

Our individual and collective use should be an excellent litmus test of these new magazines. And hey, we get to do it all for science!

Best, Jon

[lwt16]

There are some very specific improvements to these new magazines that I suspect have addressed and eradicated the issues with the previous production 17 round magazines. (And no, I can't discuss exactly what the improvements are, so don't attempt to further interrogate me on 'em....)

Our individual and collective use should be an excellent litmus test of these new magazines. And hey, we get to do it all for science!

Best, Jon

Once again, I appreciate this and enjoyed the fellowship today.

Regards.

[GJM]

46932

[El Cid]

Thank you for your updates and Check-Mate’s desire to take care of customers! I don’t have a P320 but I’m awaiting my Shield G43x mags. I hope they work and I want Check-Mate to succeed and produce quality mags. The more options we have as shooters the better life is for all of us.

[NWshooter]

I’m just jealous that you won a P320

Who does that?

Will be interesting thread to follow. Thanks for the info from another 253’er

[JonInWA]

Hey, what can I say? It was a bolt outta the blue, for me, too. NSSF and SIG were great, and SIG allowed me to reconfigure the Gearbox package so it was more specifically tailored to me (within the dollar constraints of the package) and was more integrated.

Here are some images of what I'm running:

The P320 RX, X Carry grip module, Romeo1 with steel protective shroud. It's normally carried in the appropriate Mitch Rosen OWB holster available from the SIG, with spare magazines carried in a Bianchi dual magazine pouch. Notice the boxed "C" in the magazine tube rollmarking signifying Check-Mate manufacture

http://i.imgur.com/mF6kFhbh.jpg (https://imgur.com/mF6kFhb)

Close-up of the Henning Group extended baseplate that is OEM with the Check-Mate 17 round magazines. the diamond pattern engraving on the bottom of the pads really ensures an excellent surface facilitating a positive reload
http://i.imgur.com/iKzEyPuh.jpg (https://imgur.com/iKzEyPu)

In addition to the more natural index provided by the grip configuration (at least for me), the X grip modules also provide for less constrained/fenced-in access to the slide release lever. OEM stippling is quite good.
http://i.imgur.com/LYNwVC0h.jpg (https://imgur.com/LYNwVC0)

Best, Jon

[LockedBreech]

I might not be a 320 guy generally, but that's a nice looking setup.

[spinmove_]

It genuinely irritates me that SIG pulled the shenanigans that they did with the whole “Voluntary Upgrade” thing. SIGs always presented rather naturally for me and were always comfortable to shoot. I loved the modular concept of the P250 when it came out and thought it was awesome they brought it to the P320.

It really is cool to see this level of support from Check-mate. If I ever found my way into having new SIGs for whatever reason I’ll actively look to support them for it.

[tlong17]

JonInWA have you tried the flat trigger and have any opinion on how it compares to the curved? I understand it can be subjective but curious as to your take on it.

[JonInWA]

JonInWA have you tried the flat trigger and have any opinion on how it compares to the curved? I understand it can be subjective but curious as to your take on it.

I haven't; I believe it's a standard feature (along with the upper slide window, XRAY3 sights and more pronounced grasping grooves) if you buy the P320 as the XCarry; mine was originally a P320 RX Compact, to which I switched from the Compact grip module to the X Carry grip module (thanks to our regional SIG LEO rep), but retained the OEM trigger control group module, with the standard curved trigger.

Without trying a flat trigger, my thought is that while there might be an inherent incremental ergonomic improvement with it, for me personally I'm probably going to reap more benefits from a concentrated training and competition program. If and when my basic skill-sets become elevated enough to where I can actually achieve a quantifiable and discernible benefit from it, I might consider it.

Essentially what I'm saying is that I really will probably benefit at this point from developing and maximizing my performance with what I've got-concentrating more on "software" improvements instead of "hardware" ones. The OEM trigger module inherent to the P320 seems to be pretty decent and eminently workable.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

It genuinely irritates me that SIG pulled the shenanigans that they did with the whole “Voluntary Upgrade” thing. SIGs always presented rather naturally for me and were always comfortable to shoot. I loved the modular concept of the P250 when it came out and thought it was awesome they brought it to the P320.

It really is cool to see this level of support from Check-mate. If I ever found my way into having new SIGs for whatever reason I’ll actively look to support them for it.

I totally agree with the slippery slope that SIG seemed to travel down from around 2005-2006 on, what with decreased component composition qualities, decreased QC, and seemingly diminished after-market support. And there there was the P320 drop safety kerfuffle, which in my opinion was abysmally handled and inductive of a significant moral and ethical lapse.

Because of the above, the only SIG product until recently I felt comfortable and confident in recommending was the SP2022 (previously Sigpro/SP2340/SP2009); my feeling was that that platform had remained relatively uniquely untouched and undiminished probably due to very specific ongoing contractual specifications covering component composition/quality and QC, most probably emanating from the SP2022s provided to the French.

Subsequent due to the drop-safety issue/program, the M17/M18 programs, and presumably other concurrent in-house product improvement programs (such as the magazines we're discussing in this thread, for example) I think there's an excellent chance that the P320 is reaching product maturity. I also have been impressed with the quality and responsiveness of the SIG-Sauer corporate individuals that I've recently engaged with (in my case, essentially from the summer of 2019 and forward), on both a personal and professional level. I think it's an encouraging indication that the moral and product quality compass needle has swung towards the positive. What's probably key now is how things go on an ongoing basis, particularly given increased platform mileage and experiences accumulated in the field, and with new (and/or modified current) product submissions.

Best, Jon

[spinmove_]

I totally agree with the slippery slope that SIG seemed to travel down from around 2005-2006 on, what with decreased component composition qualities, decreased QC, and seemingly diminished after-market support. And there there was the P320 drop safety kerfuffle, which in my opinion was abysmally handled and inductive of a significant moral and ethical lapse.

Because of the above, the only SIG product until recently I felt comfortable and confident in recommending was the SP2022 (previously Sigpro/SP2340/SP2009); my feeling was that that platform had remained relatively uniquely untouched and undiminished probably due to very specific ongoing contractual specifications covering component composition/quality and QC, most probably emanating from the SP2022s provided to the French.

Subsequent due to the drop-safety issue/program, the M17/M18 programs, and presumably other concurrent in-house product improvement programs (such as the magazines we're discussing in this thread, for example) I think there's an excellent chance that the P320 is reaching product maturity. I also have been impressed with the quality and responsiveness of the SIG-Sauer corporate individuals that I've recently engaged with (in my case, essentially from the summer of 2019 and forward), on both a personal and professional level. I think it's an encouraging indication that the moral and product quality compass needle has swung towards the positive. What's probably key now is how things go on an ongoing basis, particularly given increased platform mileage and experiences accumulated in the field, and with new (and/or modified current) product submissions.

Best, Jon

I’m definitely glad that it sounds lime they’re getting their act together. It would be nice if we could get back to trusting the company again on some level. I don’t live in a magazine ban state currently, but with the shenanigans happing in VA that could change at any given time for any of us. Being setup with a quartet of 9mm Glocks in makes me a bit nervous. I kind of always have my ear to the ground for a viable and affordable 9mm Glock alternative that has reliable 10-round magazines.

Yes I know the G43x/G48 exists and that’s all well and fine and everything. The problem is that while those make great carry guns, I like to keep a larger full-sized pistol on hand that I can get a great two handed grip on, plays nice with a big burly and bright white light, and might even one day be a great red dot host. Not only that, but I’m really digging USPSA Production. Those two very real things are not what a G43x/G48 is very well suited for. The real solution there is if Glock could just make reliable 10-round magazines I’d have zero issues.

I don’t have to worry about it now, but I might later. And if later comes sooner, then I’ll need that solution sooner as well and the Glocks become “rainy day” solutions.

[GJM]

Day 2, new Checkmate magazine marked “T2” started experiencing stoppages with PMC 115 ball, that runs with the MecGar mags. Will see what tomorrow brings.

[JonInWA]

Day 2, new Checkmate magazine marked “T2” started experiencing stoppages with PMC 115 ball, that runs with the MecGar mags. Will see what tomorrow brings.

George, I'd suggest that tomorrow you run T2 concurrently with a Mec-Gar in the session, to isolate if its a magazine, gun, or ammunition induced issue.

But you guys are probably way ahead of me on this.

Best, Jon

[GJM]

George, I'd suggest that tomorrow you run T2 concurrently with a Mec-Gar in the session, to isolate if its a magazine, gun, or ammunition induced issue.

But you guys are probably way ahead of me on this.

Best, Jon

She has been running that ammo, with her Legions and MecGar magazines for months.

[GJM]

She has been running that ammo, with her Legions and MecGar magazines for months.

46978

[JonInWA]

Note to self: Find out in advance when the GJM's are on their ammunition acquisition forays, and quickly buy stock in PMC...

Let us know how tomorrow goes. If necessary, we'll swap out T2 for a replacement, to let Check-Mate Engineering examine it.

Best, Jon

[Sigfan26]

Note to self: Find out in advance when the GJM's are on their ammunition acquisition forays, and quickly buy stock in PMC...


If you think that’s a lot of ammo, talk to parents of college trap shooters. They call routinely for cost on a full pallet of shells.


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[Sigfan26]

Note to self: Find out in advance when the GJM's are on their ammunition acquisition forays, and quickly buy stock in PMC...


If you think that’s a lot of ammo, talk to parents of college trap shooters. They call routinely for cost on a full pallet of shells.


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[cornstalker]

If you think that’s a lot of ammo, talk to parents of college trap shooters. They call routinely for cost on a full pallet of shells.


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A pallet of shotgun shells, reduced to 9mm size, would fit in the back seat of a Raptor. Just sayin... ;)

[Sigfan26]

A pallet of shotgun shells, reduced to 9mm size, would fit in the back seat of a Raptor. Just sayin... ;)

Maybe. 26,000 9mm’s is still a bit of space!


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[JonInWA]

I campaigned the P320 X-Carry (or, to be technically correct, an X-Carry grip module married to a standard 3.9" Upper slide/barrel assembly) last Saturday in the Renton WA monthly IDPA match. Weather was cloudy and cool (30s-40s), with very sporadic light sprinkles of rain (with zero effect on my Romeo1 RDS-no raindrops hit its glass). The lowest of the higher-intensity dot illumination settings was used throughout (i.e., the third selection up from the bottom).

The P320 RX with X-Carry grip/RDS/Check-Mate magazines performed superbly, with Sellier & Bellot 124 gr ball used throughout.

I used the same 3 Check-Mate magazines throughout; my initial carry magazine had a new GrayGuns/Taylor Freelance Hard Duty Use aluminum basepad, and my 2 reload magazine used the OEM Henning Group extended basepad installed by Check-Mate.

Magazines were not babied; throughout the match (and an apres-match 5X5 series of IDPA Qualifiers I ran the gun through), the magazines were routinely ejected onto the wet, muddy ground, and at best wiped off on my pants before re-use.

Zero issues whatsoever were encountered.

Why the GrayGuns/Taylor Freelance basepad? Two reasons: 1) I wanted to see how an after-market component would work with the Check-Mate magazines. and 2) While I'm very satisfied with the OEM Henning Group basepads, my though was that a smaller-dimensioned basepad might be a tad more user friendly for concealed carry, printing less, but that the Henning Group basepads would be superior for reloads.

Some images:

P320 loaded with Henning Group basepad in X-Carry grip module
https://i.imgur.com/a4ua6i7h.jpg

Henning Basepad Bottom, with aggressive diamond-pattern checkering
https://i.imgur.com/asfBqAYh.jpg

P320 X-Carry loaded with GrayGuns/Taylor Freelance Basepad
https://i.imgur.com/7CGZDFUh.jpg

GrayGuns/Taylor Freelance Basepad bottom, with paintable concave dots and an area for inscribing badge #, etc:
https://i.imgur.com/TGCm1Noh.jpg

Frontal Basepad Comparison:
https://i.imgur.com/VEgPVCwh.jpg

Side Profile Basepad Comparison:
https://i.imgur.com/xZg2ai6h.jpg

Rear/Back magazine basepad comparison:
http://i.imgur.com/KcQ6EMUh.jpg (https://imgur.com/KcQ6EMU)

No problems were encountered using either/both basepads, or with any aspect of the magazines. For initial admin load/carry load, I can be satisfied with the magazines with either basepad, but the GrayGuns/TF one is noticeably thinner, conceivably printing a bit less with some clothing selections.

The Henning Group basepads excel particularly as reload magazines, as their size ensures a likely better grasping area when frantically grabbing for the magazine, and the aggressive diamond-pattern checkering on the magazine bottom is a superb surface ensuring that a reload is sufficiently emplaced and locked in her receiver. It really locks into your palm.

Again, the Henning Group basepads WILL NOT WORK with the standard P320 grip modules; they're designed specifically for the X-Series P320 grip modules. The GrayGuns/TF basepad will work in either grip module.

While the GrayGuns/TF basepad is basically smooth, there are grasping groove cuts/niches in the basepad upper sides, facilitating yanking down on a stubborn-to-eject/extract magazine; the Henning Group basepads are smooth-sided, so your basepad selection may be guided by either the specific grip module on your P320, or by personal preferences. Both basepads seem to be well made and well finished. Other than the side niche cuts, the GrayGuns/TF basepad seems to be dimensionally comparable with the SIG OEM polymer basepads, at least as I could discern in a side-by-side comparison with the OEM SIG polymer basepads on my Mec-Gar Compact magazines.

Best, Jon

[Mjolnir]

GREAT thread!

I understand it (perhaps incorrectly) that ACT also makes magazines for the P320.

Can this be confirmed?

Thanks.


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[JonInWA]

GREAT thread!

I understand it (perhaps incorrectly) that ACT also makes magazines for the P320.

Can this be confirmed?

Thanks.


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Their websites show 2 examples, both rollmarked "ACT MAG ITALY."

Greg Cote LLC has them listed for $19.95 http://gregcotellc.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_reviews&products_id=2047&cPath=123&zenid=nlibr6apd193md9g1bcjuo2c61

After their 1911 magazine cracking feed lip debacle, which I personally experienced on several of their magazines (they were originally an OEM vendor for SIG under the Novak label for the SIG GSR 1911, before the issues caused SIG to switch to Check-Mate as their OEM 1911 magazine vender) reportedly caused by incorrect hardening, I'd personally be very wary.

Best, Jon

[Mjolnir]

Their websites show 2 examples, both rollmarked "ACT MAG ITALY."

Greg Cote LLC has them listed for $19.95 http://gregcotellc.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_reviews&products_id=2047&cPath=123&zenid=nlibr6apd193md9g1bcjuo2c61

After their 1911 magazine cracking feed lip debacle, which I personally experienced on several of their magazines (they were originally an OEM vendor for SIG under the Novak label for the SIG GSR 1911, before the issues caused SIG to switch to Check-Mate as their OEM 1911 magazine vender) reportedly caused by incorrect hardening, I'd personally be very wary.

Best, Jon

Thank you, brother!

I was not at all aware.


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[lwt16]

Magazines received.

Let the games begin.

Thanks again, JonInWA

[kwb377]

Magazines received.

Let the games begin.

Thanks again, JonInWA


Same here...

I took John up on his offer in the beginning of the thread for testers, and just received three Check-Mate mags from the latest production run on my doorstep. All my other P320 mags are MecGar, so I have no previous experience with the CM's.

I'll be running them through an X-Carry and a Carry, along with an X-Compact and Compact frame.

I replaced one of the Henning basepads with an original plastic baseplate in order to run a mag in the Carry frame.

They look identical to the MecGar mags in construction, only difference being a slight texture to the finish (less pronounced than the photo depicts).

Looking forward to running some rounds through these.

Thanks again, John!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200129/a942ab7a32def46d09290abc14883e00.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200129/8785e0c663db0c01157570ca7c7903cf.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200129/2122486557a2360aeb48906ebd5dc9c5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200129/dc995a6cfbbafa40fd4530d140eeaa26.jpg

[AMC]

Gotta say those do look nice. I like those Henning basepads for reloads. When will these be commercially available Jon?

[Eyesquared]

Gotta say those do look nice. I like those Henning basepads for reloads. When will these be commercially available Jon?

You can buy the Henning baseplates separately right now, or the complete magazines with them installed (search for SIG X5 Legion magazines). I wasn't paying close enough attention to ask Jon if I could try some samples but I have 6 of the complete SIG mags. I will add that in the several months I have had them, I have had the Henning baseplates pop off twice when the mags were dropped, both times at matches.

[JonInWA]

Currently, there are 9+ (more on that in a minute) of us that are beta-testing these new production magazines. The "+" has do do with some of us are further distributing the magazines to organizational members. There are 65 of the magazines currently involved and distributed. My understanding is that they all came straight from factory production, and have not been the recipient of any special pre-shipment treatment or tuning by Check-Mate.

Basically, testers are representatives of some 7 organizations, and some industry insiders and extremely experienced and objectively critical shooters; all are currently issued, using or very familiar with the P320. It's been made clear that these magazines are now the personal property of the receiving individual, with the Check-Mate lifetime guarantee attaching.

I've stressed to everyone volunteering that the purpose is to get some real data points on these magazines, not to create a de facto cheering section for Check-Mate (hopefully, the results will enable us to champion the magazines, but we'll see).

Although these magazines as produced all have the extended Henning Group basepads as OEM, where needed or desired, OEM SIG polymer basepads have been also provided by Check-Mate (which is convenient for some of us, as the last time I checked the SIG webshop site, they were out of stock) (the Henning basepads WILL NOT work in a standard SIG frame module, unless its a case of using a Compact frame with the 17-round magazines, where the magazine and basepad protrude past the frame bottom; the Henning Group pads were devised specifically with the X frames in mind.

In answer to a previous query, my assumption is that these magazines are currently commercially available; I assume their OEM issue with the SIG P320 X5s, and are also available from the SIG webshop. They're not inexpensive with the Hennings; they retail at about $60 'Murrican.

I'll continue to provide updates via this thread on my use (I'm currently running 8, 4 for carry/duty, 4 for competition/training); 6 with the Henning Group basepads, 1 with a GrayGuns/Taylor Freelance Hard Use aluminum basepad, and 1 with an OEM SIG polymer basepad.

While not a scientific test per se, this gives us here on p-f a venue to get and discuss some data points and experiences with these. Hey, we get to use our powers for good instead of evil...that's the theory, anyhow.

And kudos to Check-Mate, for their willingness to really step up to the plate and get something they clearly believe in out there, and subject to the potential double-edged sword of user critique. Again, the member constitution of p-f lends itself well for this.

Best, Jon

[lwt16]

You can buy the Henning baseplates separately right now, or the complete magazines with them installed (search for SIG X5 Legion magazines). I wasn't paying close enough attention to ask Jon if I could try some samples but I have 6 of the complete SIG mags. I will add that in the several months I have had them, I have had the Henning baseplates pop off twice when the mags were dropped, both times at matches.

Were they completely empty when they hit the ground or did they have some ammo in them?

Thanks for the heads up.

[Eyesquared]

Were they completely empty when they hit the ground or did they have some ammo in them?

Thanks for the heads up.

They weren't totally empty, but each one only had 2-3 rounds left.

[lwt16]

They weren't totally empty, but each one only had 2-3 rounds left.

Gotcha.....thanks for the quick reply. Needed it for research purposes.

Modified two carry grip modules to accept the Henning floorplates.

47987

47988

47989

47990

Our mags will be fully distributed this Sunday and will be ran with factory seconds CCI/Speer GDHP. We have 12 cases to utilize in 2020 and we have four USPSA shooters with mags in hand. One of our guys has a spreadsheet created and ready to record issues if they arise. All mags are marked and are about to get shown range love.

I'll let them know to keep an eye out for the base plates popping off with depleted ammo.

[JonInWA]

And we're keeping the Dremel far, far away from you, Larry....

Best, Jon

[lwt16]

And we're keeping the Dremel far, far away from you, Larry....

Best, Jon

Don't even own one....every time I get ready to buy one, I get ammo instead.

Man's got to have his priorities.

[tlong17]

JonInWA

I seem to have two different runs of mags? I had 2 from an X5 legion and 2 from an X Carry (I had another that came with the legion but when I sent it to Sig to have LCI barrel swapped for non-LCI barrel they sent me a Mecgar back for some reason?)

I don’t know which is which. One seems to have a more shiny finish (top) and the other a more matte or dull finish (bottom). Any insight into the differences between these and whether one is the “latest and greatest”?

48098

[JonInWA]

It's hard to tell, but I'm guessing that the shiney one is the newer production. Another way I suspect you can tell would be to disassemble, and compare the sprigs side by side-the one with the longer spring is likely to be the newer. Although Check-Mate is being non-specific to me about the current production mods (probably due to NDA's), I've got a sneaking suspicion that a stronger, more powerful spring is at the heart of things. If you have any questions or concerns about either, just contact Check-Mate at the info I provided earlier in the thread.

Best, Jon

[lwt16]

Zero issues reported to me from testers to date. I know some have been ran at local USPSA and steel challenge as well as NRA CCW classes.

So far, so good.

Regards.

[JonInWA]

No issues from one of the testers who ran his in yesterday's ASI match; I'll be running mine again in next weekend's IDPA match

Best, Jon

[kwb377]

I've put 150 rounds through mag #1 (Henning base plate), and 200 rounds each through mags # 2 and #3 (std. Sig base plates) over the last week.

# 2 and #3 were dropped while fully loaded before inserting into the pistol, then dropped empty at slide lock onto the gravel range from chest height each time.

No issues.

[98z28]

I finally made it to the range with the Check-Mate mags. I have two and ran them exclusively today.

Setting: Training at local range
Weather: Sunny and 70 degrees, though the ground was wet and muddy from the previous day's downpour
Magazines used: Check-Mate 17-round (labelled CT1 and CT2)
Rounds fired: 200 rounds 115gr Wolf performance (steel cased), split evenly between the two magazines
Gun(s) used: Sig P320 training (Compact RX slide with 2nd gen Romeo 01, X-Carry grip module, and Grayguns curved trigger shoe with stock spring)

I don't generally use steel-cased ammo, but I received a case of Wolf 9mm for Christmas. It poured rain yesterday and the range was still muddy. I usually keep my brass, but the muddy ground was the excuse I was looking for to try the steel-cased ammo (so I didn't have to retain wet/muddy casings). I also figured this was a bit of a worst-case scenario for the mags. If they run with Wolf, that'll be a good start. I have never put Wolf or any other steel-cased ammo through the P320, so I didn't know what to expect. I had a case of Lawman 115gr in the trunk just in case. It was not needed. The Wolf ran fine and was consistently accurate (off-hand 3" groups at 25 yards without much effort). It also shot to the same point of aim as my usual Lawman 115gr training ammo.

This was the first use for the magazines. On receipt, I disassembled the magazines and brushed them out with a toothbrush and rag. I didn't see any rough edges or residue in the tubes. They looked great. At the range, I loaded both mags to 17 rounds. The last round was tough to get in, but both mags ran fine loaded to capacity. I ran a few failure drills on the timer, then I ran a few El Pres's to get in some transitions and reloads. Rather than shooting to slide lock, I started with a fully loaded magazine and dropped the magazines with rounds in them. The full magazine seated on a closed slide just fine and the mags held together after hitting the ground with rounds in them - they stayed together and the rounds stayed in the mags. The range was muddy, so the ground was softer than usual (I will be surprised if they don't eject some rounds when hitting dry ground). I brushed the clumps of mud off on my pants before using the mags again.

When I did reload from slide lock, I had consistent auto-forwarding. I don't remember this particular 320 being sensitive to auto-forwarding, but that's just based on (an increasingly unreliable) memory. I'll run some Mec-Gars next time to see if it also happens with those.

I really dig the base plates. I generally carry a 21-round magazine as a reload because I find the extended pad helps me get a consistent grip on the mag, but these base plates might work even better. The 21-rounder can be a lot of mag to deal with in a hurry.

[azerious]

46978

https://media0.giphy.com/media/sHRU2mefl56BG/giphy.gif


And i here i am thinking im a shooter:eek:

[JonInWA]

I shot the P320 RX X Carry yesterday in an IDPA match; 7 stages, 149 rounds, sporadic rain, constant mud. Check-Mate magazines were constantly dropped in the muddy ground (clay/silt/gravel) (especially my first/initial load magazine, with a SIG OEM polymer basepad{provided by Check-Mate, replacing the OEM Henning Group basepad and used to provide a lower profile for carry}), with absolutely zero issues throughout the match.

Muddy magazines were wiped off with a handkerchief or on my pants, and then reloaded and re-used on the next stage. First magazine was always loaded to 10 + 1 (11) rounds, two reload magazines with 10 rounds, per IDPA division capacity rules.

The two Check-Mate reload magazines both have the Henning Group extended basepads.

After the match, I examined all three magazines; the initial magazine (and the one most exposed to mud/water/silt) was detail disassembled, examined, brushed out, re-treated with Dri-Slide (inner tube and spring) and reassembled. All followers were brushed, and exteriors wiped down with Weapon Shield. The magazines are actually pretty well sealed from grunge infiltration-even the first magazine was fond to have very little foreign material when detail disassembled.

Gun was cleaned, re-lubricated, and loaded with dedicated duty Check-Mate magazines, and carried on duty today Duty magazines are 3 Check-Mates,with the first sporting a lower-profile GrayGuns/Taylor Freelance Hard Use aluminum basepad, and the 2 reload magazines using the OEM Henning Group basepads). The Romeo1 RDS was cleaned with a Nikon Lens Pen; there was a small amount of residue and film that was easily removed (vision was uninhibited through it throughout the match).

Pistol was carried in a Mitch Rosen leather OWB holster, cut for a RDS, available through the SIG webstore. Magazines were carried in a Galco dual ballistic fabric/polymer magazine pouch.

Ammunition used was Sellier & Bellot 124 gr 9mm.

Again, everything ran without a hitch-magazines, gun, and with no egregious shooter-induced errors.

Best, Jon

[lwt16]

Update from Alabama:

We've had a 3 percent failure rate......BUT.....I highly suspect that is a user induced malfunction. This person told me that he had slide lock, dumped the mag, and when he went to retrieve it, it still had rounds in the magazine.

I HIGHLY suspect that he hit the slide lock with his hands while firing and thus inducing the failure.....he has marked the magazine and is bringing it to me to evaluate.

I have heard nothing but solid things from the others running these magazines. Some USPSA shooters, some NRA trainers, running our church security qualifications, plinking, etc. The Henning base plates are holding up really well with the sharp checkering on them. We are bouncing them off of our paved range in all sorts of drills. We haven't had any pop loose so far and have dumped them in loaded, partially loaded, and empty configurations.

We have a couple of guys that bought the new Wilson Combat grip modules and they work with those with no problems. At this early stage, we are giving them high marks but we are going to shoot several thousand more rounds through them and keep pouring the use to them.

I'll try to update on a quarterly basis. Right now, we love these things.

Regards.

[JonInWA]

One of our testers has reported that two of his test magazines aren't dropping free from his X5 when they're empty; he has to push them down out of the receiver from the top to get them to break free from the receiver. When loaded, they'll drop free fine, though.

He suspects that the magazine tubes might be slightly oversize/out of tolerance; another possibility is that it might have something to do with the X5's extended magazine well and it's tolerances-it's noteworthy that the magazines that we're testing, with the Henning Group basepads, are the OEM magazines with the X5.

Any other testers having similar issues?

Best, Jon

[Eyesquared]

One of our testers has reported that two of his test magazines aren't dropping free from his X5 when they're empty; he has to push them down out of the receiver from the top to get them to break free from the receiver. When loaded, they'll drop free fine, though.

He suspects that the magazine tubes might be slightly oversize/out of tolerance; another possibility is that it might have something to do with the X5's extended magazine well and it's tolerances-it's noteworthy that the magazines that we're testing, with the Henning Group basepads, are the OEM magazines with the X5.

Any other testers having similar issues?

Best, Jon
I am not formally testing them but I wouldn't expect it to be magwell related, the opening on the magwell is very generous and mine never came close to binding on the mags. On my P320X5 Legion the mag catch is a little stiff, though. The tension is such that I have failed to seat fully loaded mags properly, fired the round in the chamber, and the mag didn't fall out during recoil like I have seen with my Glocks. My mags fall free very easily when I actuate the mag catch properly. I wonder if he has small thumbs or isn't depressing the catch fully?

[JonInWA]

I am not formally testing them but I wouldn't expect it to be magwell related, the opening on the magwell is very generous and mine never came close to binding on the mags. On my P320X5 Legion the mag catch is a little stiff, though. The tension is such that I have failed to seat fully loaded mags properly, fired the round in the chamber, and the mag didn't fall out during recoil like I have seen with my Glocks. My mags fall free very easily when I actuate the mag catch properly. I wonder if he has small thumbs or isn't depressing the catch fully?

He's a very experienced shooter, both in general and P320 specifically, and has both the X5 and X Carry platforms-so I don't think it's a thumb placement or magazine catch sufficient depression based issue. He did not experience the issue with any of his other (presumably Mec-Gar) magazines, and it's only with his X5.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

One of our testers has reported that two of his test magazines aren't dropping free from his X5 when they're empty; he has to push them down out of the receiver from the top to get them to break free from the receiver. When loaded, they'll drop free fine, though.

He suspects that the magazine tubes might be slightly oversize/out of tolerance; another possibility is that it might have something to do with the X5's extended magazine well and it's tolerances-it's noteworthy that the magazines that we're testing, with the Henning Group basepads, are the OEM magazines with the X5.

Any other testers having similar issues?

Best, Jon

Problem solved-the tester realized that he'd induced the problem when he placed a small piece of coated tape with the magazine number on the outer rear of the magazine, where it was just thick enough in the right location where it interfaced with the X5 receiver to induce sufficient friction; additionally, he noticed that the tape was exactly where the X5's grip weight sits, and was creating a ledge that further served to impede the ejection of the magazine when empty and light weight.

He then removed the coated tape ID tags, and both previously problematic magazines dropped free without any issues; he tested hundreds of times just to make sure.

(FWIW, on my magazines, I just use a system of paint dots from a paint pen to code my magazines; I apply it on one of the impressed strake stampings on the tube side where it won't wear off with use).
https://i.imgur.com/jBM8WjVh.jpg

On the GrayGuns/Taylor Freelance basepads, I use the paint-fillable dot matrix and/or depression integral with the pads.
https://i.imgur.com/bJ4T428h.jpg

Best, Jon

[98z28]

...

FWIW, on my magazines, I just use a system of paint dots from a paint pen to code my magazines; I apply it on one of the impressed strake stampings on the tube side where it won't wear off with use.
https://i.imgur.com/jBM8WjVh.jpg
...

Best, Jon


I noticed this on one of your earlier posts and promptly stole it. It's one of those things that you feel silly for not thinking of yourself. Great idea. I'm expecting that it will not need touch up as frequently as painting the base plate or side/rear of the tube.



Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

[A-Train]

Jon

Great thread and great transparency from Check-Mate. Very impressive and something more manufacturers should replicate when there are real or perceived issues with their products.

I read through this whole thread and perhaps I missed this, but is there a place where a P320 owner can go and purchase some of the magazines directly from Check-Mate? I went to their website and don’t even see the P320 pistol platform listed. Sounds like these are coming as OEM with some Sig pistols but is there a way to buy them direct from Check-Mate? I like to support companies with good business practices. Sorry if it was mentioned already in the thread and I missed it.

Keep up the great work.

[JonInWA]

Jon

Great thread and great transparency from Check-Mate. Very impressive and something more manufacturers should replicate when there are real or perceived issues with their products.

I read through this whole thread and perhaps I missed this, but is there a place where a P320 owner can go and purchase some of the magazines directly from Check-Mate? I went to their website and don’t even see the P320 pistol platform listed. Sounds like these are coming as OEM with some Sig pistols but is there a way to buy them direct from Check-Mate? I like to support companies with good business practices. Sorry if it was mentioned already in the thread and I missed it.

Keep up the great work.

Sorry for the response delay; in answer to your question, Check-Mate does have direct sales, http://checkmatemagazines.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=306&Itemid=134, but I don't see the P320 magazines listed.

Essentially, their direct sales are really more oriented towards organizational as opposed to individual sales. Your best/easiest bet would be to get them from SIG-Sauer's webstore, but you could always give Check-Mate a call. As an OEM vendor, at this point they may be precluded from selling to anyone but SIG, though.

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/magazines.html

Best, Jon

[lwt16]

All of ours are still drama free. Some have seen high volume shooting.

Regards.

[AMC]

I've only got three so far, but they've been problem free for 1000 rounds, out of two different guns. They're definitely a step up from the old P226 Checkmate magazines that we had endless problems with. They've been as reliable as my Mecgar produced OEM magazines.

[JonInWA]

Mine have been absolutely flawless as well, and while the bulk of mine are running with the Henning Group extended basepad, I'm also testing several with the GreyGuns/Taylor Freelance Hard Use thin aluminum and an OEM SIG polymer basepad. About 500 rounds through mine so far.

Best, Jon

[Tokarev]

Here's a "Circle J" magazine, just for reference.

Slighty rough polish/machining on spine. Noticeable ridge or bump along the front. Slightly less "crisp" stampings. Sig Sauer information not very pronounced. These noted when compared side-by-side to a "Made in Italy" magazine.

Do we know which company is producing these?


US mag on the left:


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200418/e499104ec9edfa6b75d033749c7d6868.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200418/d8a075f332270a67f890f1d860a8d9e0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200418/c5a8683bb21b1804c4d9a74caf0fc85e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200418/6c0a4e816f41bd374628228d7f6702b6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200418/81b87b87eef1de1a297b650d147cb848.jpg

[JonInWA]

To date, I don't know who the "J" vendor is. I have my suspiscions, but am awaiting a bit more confirmation.

I will suggest that there's probably a reason that Check-Mate has the current SIG contract with the product-improved magazines we're testing, and it's not just price-based.

Best, Jon

[zaitcev]

Slighty rough polish/machining on spine. Noticeable ridge or bump along the front. Slightly less "crisp" stampings. Sig Sauer information not very pronounced. These noted when compared side-by-side to a "Made in Italy" magazine.
. . .
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200418/81b87b87eef1de1a297b650d147cb848.jpg

This matches my observation of (J), especially the picture quoted. The metal is distressed about the punched out holes. It's as if their punch set was worn out.

However, I have no complaints about the reliability.

[lwt16]

All magazines are still running strong.

None have been babied and most have been ran hard. My associate has one that the base plate will move a bit forward but has held without disassembling. He never catches mags and lets them hit the deck in empty as well as partially loaded status.

Regards.

[98z28]

I've finally been getting back out to the range after the lock down. I've run another 200 rounds of Wolf 9mm through a pair of the Checkmate magazines with zero issues (don't judge - a well-meaning family member bought me a case of Wolf ammo for Christmas, and the 320 has been eating it up just fine).

It's not the subject of this thread, but I've been playing with a P365XL the last few weeks. I have two 12-round and two 15-round magazines. All have "Made in USA" and the Checkmate stamp on them. They are all running fine and I am not seeing anything that causes concern (other than the guns saying "Sig" on the slides, but that's another conversation...the magazines seem to be fine).