Sage advice for SBRs

[snow white]

I'm just getting into my first sbr and wanted to ask for some advice regarding anything you guys think I need to know. It will be an ar chambered in 5.56. I'll be getting an 11.5 lightweight bcm upper once i sell my 14.5 ballistic advantage upper. The lower I registered has an A1 stock with a LAW folder, geissele H1 buffer with the braided spring. I'll be adding a surfire warcomp as I think they do a good job with flash suppression and I have good experience with them.
Should I go for a heavier buffer?
Any good ammunition offerings in 5.56 for an sbr? Lighter bullets? Heavier bullets?
Let me bask in your infinite knowledge.

[ranger]

Reference your SBR ammo question https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4344-5-56-mm-Duty-Loads

[Wake27]

I'm just getting into my first sbr and wanted to ask for some advice regarding anything you guys think I need to know. It will be an ar chambered in 5.56. I'll be getting an 11.5 lightweight bcm upper once i sell my 14.5 ballistic advantage upper. The lower I registered has an A1 stock with a LAW folder, geissele H1 buffer with the braided spring. I'll be adding a surfire warcomp as I think they do a good job with flash suppression and I have good experience with them.
Should I go for a heavier buffer?
Any good ammunition offerings in 5.56 for an sbr? Lighter bullets? Heavier bullets?
Let me bask in your infinite knowledge.

Barrel length won’t matter so much as barrel twist when talking light vs heavy loads. Some rounds will perform significantly better out of a shorter barrel than others due to low velocity threshold for expansion, but I’m sure the above linked thread covers that (been a while since I read it last). H2 is typically the standard for 14.5 midlength barrels, so that may be a better starting point. I’d assume an H3 might be even better. BCM is a great brand, that’ll be a solid upper.


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[Nephrology]

I run an H2 in my 11.5" SBR, no issues, but I only use quality brass ammo. Recoil is very mild. I wouldn't lose much sleep over it- buy one and see how it shoots. I wouldn't change unless I was having issues.

[Caballoflaco]

I just want to know why you’re frowning when you have your first sbr on the way?

[MistWolf]

If an SBR is gassed right, an H2 buffer is a good choice. If you wanna go with a heavier buffer, get the A5 RE assembly.

A 10.5" 5.56 is going to be loud and I've tried several different muzzle devices. In my experience, only two are worth considering- a suppressor or the BRT Covert Comp. The suppressor is self explanatory, but why the Covert Comp? Because the Covert Comp is small, light, affordable and performs as well as (if not better) than many heavier, larger, more expensive linear comps.

Extractor spring quality is critical. The more violent extraction of a shorty will pound a weak extractor spring mercilessly and the AR will quickly start malfunctioning. Do yourself a favor and replace the extractor spring with the copper colored Colt M4 spring and buy a few spares before your first outing.

Don't be afraid to stretch your SBR out. It will launch a bullet over 300 yards with ease and precision. Iron sights, RDS and LPV optics are all good choices. It's just a matter of what you prefer. I can tell you from experience there is great satisfaction in popping a prairie dog with a scoped and suppressed shorty. A shorty AR is much more versatile than many realize. It's my favorite configuration. Stock up on ammo- you're gonna need it.

Gen 3 Magpul mags are the most trouble free mags right out of the wrapper. If your upper is set up for drop in hand guards, get the Magpul Slimline. Slimlines give you more room to stretch out than any other drop ins and work well to protect the shooter from heat.

Keep it lubed. You don't have to go crazy, just place a couple of drops of oil in the exhaust ports of the carrier every now and then. Shorties seem to dry out oil faster than longer barreled ARs.

You're gonna love it. The best AR purchase I ever made was an SBR- the Colt 6933.

[Cool Breeze]

A 10.5" 5.56 is going to be loud and I've tried several different muzzle devices. In my experience, only two are worth considering- a suppressor or the BRT Covert Comp. The suppressor is self explanatory, but why the Covert Comp? Because the Covert Comp is small, light, affordable and performs as well as (if not better) than many heavier, larger, more expensive linear comps.

I always wondered how these linear comps did. Have you had the chance to test any of the others out? Like you said, they look huge and heavy. Can you approximately compare how loud a a 10.5 with the linear comp is to say a 14.5 or 16in with pinned flash hider or brake?

[MistWolf]

I always wondered how these linear comps did. Have you had the chance to test any of the others out? Like you said, they look huge and heavy. Can you approximately compare how loud a a 10.5 with the linear comp is to say a 14.5 or 16in with pinned flash hider or brake?
Simply put, brakes are brutal and only get worse as barrel length shortens. I've had braked ARs shot next next to me at the range and often the concussion hit me with a painful slap.

I have used on my personally owned ARs the A2 birdcage, Battlecomp and suppressor. In addition, I've fired ARs equipped with various brakes, comps & flash hiders as well as having been next to variously configured ARs at the range. In general, the shorter the barrel, the greater the design limits of muzzle devices are tested. Concussion and sound pressure is greater and fireballs larger. For example, the concussion from a Battle Comp was soft- softer than the concussion from an A2 on the same barrel. But it was brutal on a 10.5" barrel and the fireball very bright. When shooting that combination, I got a lot of critical comments from fellow shooters.

My brother installed a BRT Covert Comp on an 11.5" upper. The Covert Comp does a good job pushing concussion and sound downrange. Tone sounds deeper. The fireball was very small- smaller than an A2 pinned to a 14.5" barrel. Standing next an AR with the Covert Comp was much more comfortable than any other device except a suppressor. Recoil was flatter than with an A2.

[snow white]

So if my goal is to subdue flash to the best of my ability would the covert comp be a good idea or would a three prong flash hider do well on a short barrel. Like I said I was leaning twords the shurfire warcomp

[jandbj]

My personal SBR journey went from 11.5” to 10.5”, and then the Goldilocks moment was the 12.5” BCM Kino upper. Best combination of handling, tolerable blast (without resorting to a can full time) and the ability to put a white light where I wanted it without cramping available the room on the handguard. Works great with 55-75 grain bullets. Running an H2 buffer since day 1. Been running it for a few years now.

[BWT]

You know - I was just thinking about the BRT Covert Comp. I was at an indoor range with my 11.5” with my father and with each thud of concussion - I thought there has to be a better way.

Then I started down a path for the Compensators to smooth recoil, but then I thought that was just like “I’m good never shooting an SBR indoors again”. Suppressors are a great choice, but I’m underwhelmed with Rifle suppressors.

Along came the Covert Comp - I haven’t asked anyone directly about it, but how is the flash, etc.?

I’m waiting to install an A5 extension on my 12.5”, but I was thinking a Covert Comp may be in the cards. Just a ridiculous amount of velocity and flash coming off of those SBR’s.

I was trying to find a picture but (ETA: ) a fireball the size of a cantaloupe is not inaccurate with an A2.

Thanks,

[awp_101]

At the risk of further derailing the thread, how effective is the VG6 CAGE on a short barrel?

[Super77]

FWIW I run a 12.5" BCM barrel with carbine length gas. I have a Surefire FH. Buffer is whatever the Vltor A5 is that has 2 tungsten weights (A5 version of H2). Very smooth, has been totally reliable with a variety of ammo, and makes for a really handy size overall. I would not even consider running a brake.

That said, you already have the H1. Why not see how it runs and go from there?

[Unobtanium]

My .02?

Engrave the barrel, not your pretty lower.
Get a can.
Dont be caught up with trying to go as short as possible without considering rail real estate and leverages.
Accuracy from an SBR is just fine. Short isnt inaccurate, it's just slower so wind holds and distance estimates must be more on point.

[BWT]

Why would you engrave a component with a short service life relative to the rest of the gun?

[ccmdfd]

I always thought that the engraving had to go on the lower, since that's the registered part.

Is that not the case?

[BWT]

I always thought that the engraving had to go on the lower, since that's the registered part.

Is that not the case?

https://www.nationalguntrusts.com/blogs/nfa-gun-trust-atf-information-database-blog/atf-nfa-engraving-requirements-walk-through-guide

The Barrel qualifies - it does have to be visible. I don’t know what qualifies on how visible - I just wouldn’t register the barrel. What if you go to a different barrel length or caliber? Swap uppers to same barrel length of a different manufacture? Not on an AR-15 - it might make more sense.

Normally I agree with Unobtanium, just not on this.

[CleverNickname]

The Barrel qualifies - it does have to be visible. I don’t know what qualifies on how visible - I just wouldn’t register the barrel.
Even if you engrave the barrel with the maker's information, you're not registering the barrel. You're registering the SBR (a complete rifle), and the registered part is the receiver, the part whose serial number is on the form 1/form 4.

IMO, if you're registering a gun which you might want to turn back into title I, and it's a relatively desirable firearm in title I form (more than a dime-a-dozen AR15 lower), then you might want to consider engraving the barrel. Otherwise, just engrave the receiver.

[BWT]

Even if you engrave the barrel with the maker's information, you're not registering the barrel. You're registering the SBR (a complete rifle), and the registered part is the receiver, the part whose serial number is on the form 1/form 4.

IMO, if you're registering a gun which you might want to turn back into title I, and it's a relatively desirable firearm in title I form (more than a dime-a-dozen AR15 lower), then you might want to consider engraving the barrel. Otherwise, just engrave the receiver.

Walk through this example with me. You own AR-15 that you Form 1. You engrave an 11.5” 5.56mm Barrel.

You want to go hunting you go hunting with your .300 Blk upper. What’s marked with the registration info that coincides with the form 1 now?

You could reuse the serial number on the receiver, but you may choose not. What if you’ve serialized the barrel?

See what I’m saying here? You show up with an unmarked (ETA:) 9” .300 BLK that doesn’t have any engravings.

Or what if you blow the barrel or shoot it out?

I mean silencer manufacturer’s engrave the part of the silencer most likely to survive. Form 1’s are a bit different, but I’m just saying if your going to the pain of engraving it. Engrave the part that makes the most sense - IMHO. You could engrave inside the trigger guard or inside the mag well if you really care that much.

Anyway, the point is illustrated - make the decisions that seem most suitable to you.

[CleverNickname]

Walk through this example with me. You own AR-15 that you Form 1. You engrave an 11.5” 5.56mm Barrel.

You want to go hunting you go hunting with your .300 Blk upper. What’s marked with the registration info that coincides with the form 1 now?

The registration form doesn't have to match the configuration of the gun. It just has to match the configuration of the gun, at the time it was built or transferred. What happens if you build or transfer an NFA gun and then you move to a new residence? Your address has changed, and the information on the form doesn't match anymore. Oh no! Except, it doesn't matter.



You could reuse the serial number on the receiver, but you may choose not. What if you’ve serialized the barrel?

You could engrave a serial number (or anything else) on the barrel, but a serial number there doesn't matter for NFA purposes, legally speaking. The maker's info (name and location) and the gun's model and caliber can be either on the receiver or barrel, but the serial has to be on the receiver. See 27 CFR 479.102 (a)(1) and (2) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/479.102).



See what I’m saying here? You show up with an unmarked (ETA:) 9” .300 BLK that doesn’t have any engravings.

Or what if you blow the barrel or shoot it out?
You could always engrave multiple barrels.

[Unobtanium]

Even if you engrave the barrel with the maker's information, you're not registering the barrel. You're registering the SBR (a complete rifle), and the registered part is the receiver, the part whose serial number is on the form 1/form 4.

IMO, if you're registering a gun which you might want to turn back into title I, and it's a relatively desirable firearm in title I form (more than a dime-a-dozen AR15 lower), then you might want to consider engraving the barrel. Otherwise, just engrave the receiver.

My Form 1 lowers are all Hodge MOD 2. I kinda like them staying all OEM looking, and if I change barrels, it's not super hard to have another one engraved. The barrels I prefer are custom Bartlein, anyways, so just one more thing. I'm already spec'ing everything else, what's a line of engraving, basically. No stress. The rest of my SBR/SBS stuff is all factory like my Benelli M4 and so forth, so no engraving required. I'm OCD, I guess, and hate the thought of breaking ano and a billboard. I just put make sure it's visible through an MLOK slot or similar.

[BWT]

The registration form doesn't have to match the configuration of the gun. It just has to match the configuration of the gun, at the time it was built or transferred. What happens if you build or transfer an NFA gun and then you move to a new residence? Your address has changed, and the information on the form doesn't match anymore. Oh no! Except, it doesn't matter.


You could engrave a serial number (or anything else) on the barrel, but a serial number there doesn't matter for NFA purposes, legally speaking. The maker's info (name and location) and the gun's model and caliber can be either on the receiver or barrel, but the serial has to be on the receiver. See 27 CFR 479.102 (a)(1) and (2) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/479.102).


You could always engrave multiple barrels.

Didn’t say you couldn’t just intended I wouldn’t and haven’t personally.

[Unobtanium]

Didn’t say you couldn’t just intended I wouldn’t and haven’t personally.



-OE Maker serial number on receiver/frame.
-You (form 1) assembler/maker name/city/state located on the barrel or frame, either. Must be visible without altering weapon from its "ready to fire" state. This means not under the grip. Not under the gas block. Not inside the mag-well where it could not be read with an inserted mag. Not on the juncture between the lower/upper. Etc. Imagine an ATF agent can suspend the rifle in the air at time of firing, and inspect it from every angle. During this inspection, they must be able to see/read engraving. Through an MLOK slot on the barrel works. Inner lip of the mag-well (not obscured by mag) works. Etc.

[Josh Runkle]

Didn’t say you couldn’t just intended I wouldn’t and haven’t personally.

Maybe don’t give advice on how to do something you’ve clearly never done before ;)

BATFE has FAQ’s on this crap on their website. You can call the NFA branch and ask questions too: 304.616.4500


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[BWT]

Maybe don’t give advice on how to do something you’ve clearly never done before ;)

BATFE has FAQ’s on this crap on their website. You can call the NFA branch and ask questions too: 304.616.4500


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I have Form 1’d an SBR. I opted to get the Receiver engraved because it’s a non wearing (or as close as you can get in an AR) part. To me it seems non-sensical to recommend to someone new to NFA to engrave a barrel as it is a wearing part, and something that’s easily changed in an AR. That’s two reasons in my opinion it’s a bad idea. The others then suggested engraving multiple barrels, and I basically logically threw my hands up because that’s the third reason I found in this thread for it to be a bad idea because it’s adding a growing expense.

I tried to leave the thread politely and respectfully. You do you though - I just felt a responsibility to basically go “Eh... I may not do it that way”. It really is up to the end user, but you’re wrong.

[Josh Runkle]

I have Form 1’d an SBR. I opted to get the Receiver engraved because it’s a non wearing (or as close as you can get in an AR) part. To me it seems non-sensical to recommend to someone new to NFA to engrave a barrel as it is a wearing part, and something that’s easily changed in an AR. That’s two reasons in my opinion it’s a bad idea. The others then suggested engraving multiple barrels, and I basically logically threw my hands up because that’s the third reason I found in this thread for it to be a bad idea because it’s adding a growing expense.

I tried to leave the thread politely and respectfully. You do you though - I just felt a responsibility to basically go “Eh... I may not do it that way”. It really is up to the end user, but you’re wrong.

Sorry, I misquoted you (like an asshole) when I thought I was quoting the dude wanting to engrave a barrel.


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[BWT]

Sorry, I misquoted you (like an asshole) when I thought I was quoting the dude wanting to engrave a barrel.


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You’re good and I apologize - I’m probably more emotionally invested than I should be. I was walking around the house with my son, holding his hands while he was walking and thinking about this whole thing. These internet arguments matter too much to me now - I need other hobbies.

It’s all good.

I was thinking about this too - Colt and Factory SBR’s will keep their value better if you ever wish to resell as an SBR (you cold re-sell as a non-SBR if you sold the upper/lower separately). Also, Form 1’ing via E-File makes a lot of sense these days because apparently it’s taking like 4-6 weeks.

I wish everyone the best.

ETA: My sons 9 months old and can’t walk on his own yet. Thought that’d be worthwhile to add for some clarity - lol.

[snow white]

So my form 1 came back approved, just need to sell my LTT to fund the upper. I was going to go with a BCM 11.5 but now I'm leaning more twords a SOLGW 11.5. That is unless somebody wants to trade a quality 11.5 upper for the LTT.

[BWT]

So my form 1 came back approved, just need to sell my LTT to fund the upper. I was going to go with a BCM 11.5 but now I'm leaning more twords a SOLGW 11.5. That is unless somebody wants to trade a quality 11.5 upper for the LTT.

Awesome!!!!

Have we sufficiently duked it out over engraving? Do you think we have another round in us?

Post pictures when it’s done.

[Unobtanium]

Awesome!!!!

Have we sufficiently duked it out over engraving? Do you think we have another round in us?

Post pictures when it’s done.

Meh. Engrave what you want. I really dont think it even matters, but the barrel legally qualifies. I have literally only heard of one issue, at an MG shoot.