Glock 44 and improving time from concealed draw to first shot

[SiriusBlunder]

With the recent church shooting, one of my goals this year is to improve my time from draw to concealment to first shot this year.

My EDC, when not in an NPE, is a G19 IWB for Spring/Summer/Fall and a G17 in the winter so I'm thinking a G44 is a cost effective way to improve this time (plus I just have the "wantsies" :-) ).

I'm telling myself that if the trigger pull is really the same a 9MM Glock, the lack of recoil won't matter in time from draw to first shot.

What says the hive mind? Is the assumption that lack of recoil here is irrelevant valid?

Any other thoughts on improving this time besides lots more dry practice and live fire with my EDC?

TIA.

[LOKNLOD]

It could be a good way to get in more reps at lower cost. However I think the potential pitfall is that is the light recoil will allow you to get away with being sloppy with your grip, and you won't be setting yourself up for a multiple-shot string with a full-recoiling G19. To be fair, the same thing can happen in dry fire practice, or using a SIRT, or even working a centerfire pistol when doing single-shot draws. It's not insurmountable, you just have to be aware and actively working to counteract the effect.

[HopetonBrown]

You don't practice draws in live fire.

You practice draws in your home with a shot timer.

You confirm your dry fire draw tines in live fire.

[Jeff22]

Well, I practice draws live fire with a timer. Sometimes from concealment and sometimes from my duty rig.

Sometimes/most often with the "real" gun and sometimes with one of the .22s.

Todd Louis Green wrote a useful article about using .22 conversion units in training:

http://pistol-training.com/articles/22-training-pistols-pros-cons

[SiriusBlunder]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts so far.

I really didn't want to get into a debate about live vs. dry practice in this thread, but I believe live practice beats dry practice, assuming time and money are no issue. I realize this is a feeling, and as Doc says feelings can lie, but I feel live practice with a G44 if it really has an identical trigger, size, and sights, beats dry practice with a G19.

As of today, I'm semi-retired so time isn't much of an issue, but unfortunately money and wear/tear on the body are still concerns. I dry practice now, but with a .22LR, I can financially and physically afford to live practice this drill, and others, up to 5 times a week. I'm not going to stop shooting 9MM or other dry practice, but I'm not going to shot more 9MM at the moment.

Just started thinking about this drill today and found some of the pros/cons in other threads after posting. Should have picked better search terms. Didn't think much about grip at first, but I see how this drill, and a .22 LR, can hide issues with grip now.

Thanks for the link to Todd's thoughts. I read that years ago, but forgot all about it as I've never thought seriously about practicing with a .22LR. I should have searched PT, too. My bad.

Shouldn't have asked for other tips on improving time to first shot as I've been finding those, really wanted to focus on the pros/cons of using a G44 for this drill and Todd's post covers a lot of them.

[Alpha Sierra]

Shouldn't have asked for other tips on improving time to first shot as I've been finding those, really wanted to focus on the pros/cons of using a G44 for this drill and Todd's post covers a lot of them.

Sounds like a foregone conclusion then.

[SiriusBlunder]

Still researching and thinking about it so haven't made up my mind, but leaning towards the pros out way the cons, especially for this drill. One thought I've had is to try it for a while and see if my performance with a 9MM suffers when I shot my regular drills.

I'm always willing to hear more pros/cons, but I now regret opening the thread as I found a lot more info after I searched on "22 trainer" vs."Glock 44 draw to first shot". My bad - I was too focused on a G44 and wasn't searching generically enough which is usually not a problem I have.

I'm thankful for the link to Todd's post and for everyone's thoughts/time that did reply.

I'm fine with closing the thread or keeping it open if the mods think there is value to add that hasn't been covered in the other .22LR trainer threads.

[Leroy]

The large weight difference between a loaded 19/17 vs the 44 will probably cause issues. I would use 44 for low cost shooting rather than gun handling. At some point the .22 just stops being helpful outside of the accuracy practice, low recoil, and lower ammo cost.

[SiriusBlunder]

The large weight difference between a loaded 19/17 vs the 44 will probably cause issues. I would use 44 for low cost shooting rather than gun handling. At some point the .22 just stops being helpful outside of the accuracy practice, low recoil, and lower ammo cost.

Good point about the weight. Looks like a ~14 oz difference G19/G44 based on Glock's spec.

If I go this route, I would have to see if any the weighted grip plugs will fit and if there in one heavy enough to make up that difference. If not, I bet there's one on it's way.

Never thought about weight with an unloaded G19/G17 or Sirt (~21 oz) when dry practicing, though. Maybe I should.

[Alpha Sierra]

deleted

[Alpha Sierra]

Good point about the weight. Looks like a ~14 oz difference G19/G44 based on Glock's spec.

If I go this route, I would have to see if any the weighted grip plugs will fit and if there in one heavy enough to make up that difference. If not, I bet there's one on it's way.

Never thought about weight with an unloaded G19/G17 or Sirt (~21 oz) when dry practicing, though. Maybe I should.


The weight difference between an empty pistol and one full of ammo doesn't cause any issues going from dry practice to live fire.

I doubt the weight difference between a loaded Glock 19 and a loaded rimfire clone would be a problem either unless there's some physical infirmity going on.

The value of correct dry fire practice has been validated by some of the best handgun shooters, bar none, in the world. The fact that some still find ways to question its value just makes me laugh.

[JAD]

When I am trying to develop my ability to handle something like the White Settlement problem, I am not interested in draw speed in se. I am interested in my ability to hit a high accountability target as quickly as possible from the holster. Having a good clean mechanical draw that I’ve developed in dry fire is a step, having a clean trigger press developed in dry fire is a step, and follow through for a second shot is a step. I find that live fire is the best way to put those three things together, and I prefer to do it with my carry pistol. I would spend the G44 money on ammo.

[SiriusBlunder]

The weight difference between an empty pistol and one full of ammo doesn't cause any issues going from dry practice to live fire.

I doubt the weight difference between a loaded Glock 19 and a loaded rimfire clone would be a problem either unless there's some physical infirmity going on.

The value of correct dry fire practice has been validated by some of the best handgun shooters, bar none, in the world. The fact that some still find ways to question its value just makes me laugh.

I'm not questioning the value of dry practice and do a lot more of it than live. I'm not going to stop. I thought that was clear in the other posts.

I now have time to go to the club 5 times a week and was interested in the pros/cons of using an "identical" .22LR for this drill.

Are you saying that dry practicing this drill 5 times a week is better than live practice with an "identical" .22LR?

[Alpha Sierra]

Are you saying that dry practicing this drill 5 times a week is better than live practice with an "identical" .22LR?

I'm saying that live fire practice with a rimfire is not useful. Recoil, and your reaction to it, is what live fire brings to the party in order to validate what you did in dry fire.

[SiriusBlunder]

I'm saying that live fire practice with a rimfire is not useful. Recoil, and your reaction to it, is what live fire brings to the party in order to validate what you did in dry fire.

I agree for multi-string drills. This drill is not a multi-shot drill. (Dry practice doesn't have any recoil either so does nothing for training recoil management).

ToddG's blog post covers which drills a .22LR trainer are good for so I wish I would have found that before posting.

There are pros/cons to this specific drill so I'm considering those, too.

[Alpha Sierra]

I agree for multi-string drills. This drill is not a multi-shot drill. (Dry practice doesn't have any recoil either so does nothing for training recoil management).
OK, I give up.

[SiriusBlunder]

When I am trying to develop my ability to handle something like the White Settlement problem, I am not interested in draw speed in se. I am interested in my ability to hit a high accountability target as quickly as possible from the holster. Having a good clean mechanical draw that I’ve developed in dry fire is a step, having a clean trigger press developed in dry fire is a step, and follow through for a second shot is a step. I find that live fire is the best way to put those three things together, and I prefer to do it with my carry pistol. I would spend the G44 money on ammo.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Watching analysis of this shooting, folks are saying it illustrates why you need a < 2 second draw to first shot. They never specify target size or distance with that though, but I feel I have lots of work to do.

Last year, I could only get to the range about once a month. I shoot a variation of Gila Hayes's 5x5 Drill using a 3x4 label from concealment first thing on range days. My last 10 cold runs mean to first shot is 2.61 seconds with .20 STDEV. I shoot it 5 times. After a few runs, it gets closer to 2 seconds, but I'm tracking my cold, first run separately and focusing on that for this problem.

What is an acceptable time to draw to a 3x4 target at 5 yards from concealment?

[1Rangemaster]

In reply to your immediate question, I would opine a draw to a hit in your scenario to be 2seconds or less. But please recall we have other issues here such as recognition of the threat, background, etc. I am training around several standards, to include a hit from the ready to a steel silhouette at 50 yards in 3 seconds. At 3 yards, less than 2 secs., and so on. I also regularly do a “cold drill”; no AM dryfire, no warmup, first thing upon range arrival.
I respected TLG, as he was thoughtful in his writing. I’ll have a G44 as soon as I can. Will I use it for “practical” practice?
You bet; single draws to a hit, there’s a rim fire 5 yard Roundup, etc. No, it doesn’t take the place of centerfire for recoil control, zero verification, etc. But a rim fire is fun, too, and can be used with “less dedicated” personnel.
Any reasonable activity which gets one on the range to work with a similar trigger is a net positive, IMO.
And a thought occurred to me this AM as I prepared for work: in the TX church thread, I commented I hoped I could meet evil as well as Mr. Wilson did. I’m thinking to modify that, and it’s a subtle but I believe important distinction.
I will meet the evil, and overcome it.
Best wishes for your shooting

[JRV]

Finding efficiencies in the draw stroke is a dryfire process. If you don’t separate out the marksmanship process, you’ll never give yourself enough time or enough focused reps to clean up the clear-cover-acquire-grip-clear-holster-join-hands process.

You wouldn’t prepare for a boxing match by only boxing. Sometimes you have to drill reps on a bag, sometimes you lift, sometimes you run or drill footwork, sometimes you do yoga, and sometimes you spar.

[JAD]

I agree for multi-string drills. This drill is not a multi-shot drill.

Follow through matters, SO MUCH. Accountability matters, and your ability to hit a small target with a .22 is not super helpful. Live fire is demonstration and diagnosis, and will be much more fruitful with service ammo.

[JAD]

Thanks for your thoughts.

Watching analysis of this shooting, folks are saying it illustrates why you need a < 2 second draw to first shot. They never specify target size or distance with that though, but I feel I have lots of work to do.

Last year, I could only get to the range about once a month. I shoot a variation of Gila Hayes's 5x5 Drill using a 3x4 label from concealment first thing on range days. My last 10 cold runs mean to first shot is 2.61 seconds with .20 STDEV. I shoot it 5 times. After a few runs, it gets closer to 2 seconds, but I'm tracking my cold, first run separately and focusing on that for this problem.

What is an acceptable time to draw to a 3x4 target at 5 yards from concealment?

White Settlement was a /moving/ grape shot at 12 yards. If I'm trying to solve that problem, I am going to work a 2x2 at 12. The acceptable time for that is faster than yesterday.

[lwt16]

What is an acceptable time to draw to a 3x4 target at 5 yards from concealment?

I ran drills at 7 yards a couple of days ago from concealment as well as duty belt since I have to work on both aspects.

I was averaging 1.6 from concealment (IWB at the 4 o'clock with a light jacket on) using a new pistol to me (duty issued G45). Fastest was 1.46.

From the hooded ALS duty rig I was 1.20 with the fastest at 1.08.

I used to be much slower with both methods of carry and I want to be much faster with both. Not sure how much more I can shave off but I still run the drills hoping to see improvement. I found that dry practice on both concealed and duty were the most beneficial to me. My shot timer won't detect dry practice but my app on my phone will....so long as the room is quiet and the phone is placed near where the muzzle lands on the draw.

I try to practice both ways dry on a daily basis. I lean towards more reps on the duty rig since both the holster and the gun are fairly new to me.

The G44 interests me but for now, I find more benefit from the ammo that I can purchase with the funds. Plus, I want to see how the range reports are on the new Glock .22lr. before I invest in one. Particularly the 25 yard accuracy that the gun has.

Regards.

[YVK]

I'm saying that live fire practice with a rimfire is not useful.

Really? I look at it as a dry fire, except with at the range and with tiny holes serving as diagostics.

To the OP: main problem that I see with 22LR is that it doesn't induce the same tension. Undue physical and mental tension is what kills speed, and accuracy for that matter. Main criticism of dry fire, by those who do it a lot, is not that you cant generate same pressure on the gun as in live, but that the gun doesn't induce all of the reactions intrinsic to live fire in you. Same goes for 22LR. As I just said above, 22LR is barely anything over dry fire, but it does help to keep you honest.

[SiriusBlunder]

I ran drills at 7 yards a couple of days ago from concealment as well as duty belt since I have to work on both aspects.

I was averaging 1.6 from concealment (IWB at the 4 o'clock with a light jacket on) using a new pistol to me (duty issued G45). Fastest was 1.46.

From the hooded ALS duty rig I was 1.20 with the fastest at 1.08.

I used to be much slower with both methods of carry and I want to be much faster with both. Not sure how much more I can shave off but I still run the drills hoping to see improvement. I found that dry practice on both concealed and duty were the most beneficial to me. My shot timer won't detect dry practice but my app on my phone will....so long as the room is quiet and the phone is placed near where the muzzle lands on the draw.

I try to practice both ways dry on a daily basis. I lean towards more reps on the duty rig since both the holster and the gun are fairly new to me.

The G44 interests me but for now, I find more benefit from the ammo that I can purchase with the funds. Plus, I want to see how the range reports are on the new Glock .22lr. before I invest in one. Particularly the 25 yard accuracy that the gun has.

Regards.

Thanks.

Did you see much difference between dry and live times?

My dry time mean is 1.79 seconds so cold live fire time is ~.8 second worse.

I wonder if I'm getting the "yips" on the first run as my times gets closer to 2 on subsequent runs. Maybe my dry practice sucks. Or Both.

[1Rangemaster]

Reasonable comment, YVK; the rim fire gives one a diagnostic tool for shooting one shot. A G44 similar to a G19 is a good, but not perfect, tool.
And before I get to the range with a centerfire, I in no way want to discourage dry firing. Draws, to include a support hand draw, sight acquisition (dot especially), trigger press, stoppage reduction, reloads, etc., all benefit.

[miller_man]

I'm saying that live fire practice with a rimfire is not useful. Recoil, and your reaction to it, is what live fire brings to the party in order to validate what you did in dry fire.

Totally disagree here. For multiple shots, yes not really useful. 1 shot? Even 1 shot per target - very useful. I will agree or admit first - dry fire is best.

For example, Go see my training journal, right now I am working a good bit on draws to 1st shot on head box @20yds (with a dot). There is A TON of things that go into getting it right - and recoil after the shot is pretty insignificant. The follow through after the shot is, but the recoil impulse matters little. I have gained a ton of information on the process of the draw - staying relaxed, especially in shoulders, getting dot smoothly on the target and holding dot pretty steady on the head box. My first biggest lesson was learning that the dot couldn't be moving across the head box for me to reliably land a hit (maybe other folks, but not me). Also, the trigger work - I tried no prep, slow press and now I am finding most success with prepping 90% of the trigger while getting dot settled on head box and continue very controlled steady press of last 10% to break the shot.

I've gotten to work on this one thing about 60-70% more than I would have been able to using 22lr instead of 9mm. Once I get to running this with about 90% success with the 22, I will start running more with 9mm. I started working on it with 9mm but found quickly I was making lots of mistakes. I did and can run in dry practice all day but until I can verify in live fire, I won't know. No sense IMO in wasting my more valuable 9mm ammo on the drill until I can do it with the 22.

Also, you have transitions - all you need to do to work on transitions is call the first shot good and get eyes and gun to next target as fast as possible. Recoil doesn't really matter.

[Alpha Sierra]

Totally disagree here.

I'm OK with that.

[lwt16]

Thanks.

Did you see much difference between dry and live times?

My dry time mean is 1.79 seconds so cold live fire time is ~.8 second worse.

I wonder if I'm getting the "yips" on the first run as my times gets closer to 2 on subsequent runs. Maybe my dry practice sucks. Or Both.

Oh yeah, I typically shave .2 off when running the drills dry in the living room. I'm on lunch now and just ran some from the duty holster. My fastest was .89 and that is when everything is going my way. I haven't ran a sub one second one yet in live fire. I suspect that I will sometime in the future but for now, I can't get one off that quick, on target....with ammo in the gun.

I had an on duty shooting last year and it was from my patrol car's front seat. I had done (and still do) quite a bit of dry draw practice while seated in that thing and it paid off big time for me. When watching it back on body and dash cam footage during the follow up process and shooting review board, I took note of the time to first shot as best I could. I knew when it was live the draw stroke seemed very fast to me and I confirmed it when watching the footage later. It was fast.....and I credit that to dry drawing over and over and over again during down times during shift.

A .22 training gun probably wouldn't have made that much difference for me. For you it may. Either way the price point of the g44 isn't going to break my bank....but I have a set amount of cash I can spend yearly and for now, it's going to go to 9mm and .45 auto. Not another gun.

Regards.

[SiriusBlunder]

When watching it back on body and dash cam footage during the follow up process and shooting review board, I took note of the time to first shot as best I could. I knew when it was live the draw stroke seemed very fast to me and I confirmed it when watching the footage later. It was fast.....and I credit that to dry drawing over and over and over again during down times during shift.



Thanks for your service. Glad your shooting went so well.

I've been going through the advice in this thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?251-Best-drill-for-improving-draw-first-shot-time). I'm going to record myself in both dry and live practice and see if I can notice what I'm doing differently to account for the major increase in time.

[Alpha Sierra]

Thanks for your service. Glad your shooting went so well.

I've been going through the advice in this thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?251-Best-drill-for-improving-draw-first-shot-time). I'm going to record myself in both dry and live practice and see if I can notice what I'm doing differently to account for the major increase in time.

Right from that thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?251-Best-drill-for-improving-draw-first-shot-time&p=3139&viewfull=1#post3139


I would urge caution working on any 1-shot draw drills. Obtaining great speed is possible with a bad grip and no ability to control or follow through.

And he was talking about firing one full power centerfire shot. Using a rimfire just makes it worse.

I know, I couldn't help myself.....

[SiriusBlunder]

Right from that thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?251-Best-drill-for-improving-draw-first-shot-time&p=3139&viewfull=1#post3139

And he was talking about firing one full power centerfire shot. Using a rimfire just makes it worse.

I know, I couldn't help myself.....

I mentioned in my post #5 and #15 I was aware of issues with this drill. That's the thread I found TLG's thoughts on the drill and that got me thinking about the cons of focusing on this drill with any pistol.

He also says in his .22 training post (http://pistol-training.com/articles/22-training-pistols-pros-cons) that .22's are beneficial for practicing draw stroke & marksmanship, but not recoil management or multiple shots drills to the same target, which I also acknowledged in post #15. I get you disagree with that opinion.

So I'm not sure of your point or what value you are adding to the discussion now as you've made it clear that you think rimfire practice is useless.

[YVK]

Right from that thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?251-Best-drill-for-improving-draw-first-shot-time&p=3139&viewfull=1#post3139



And he was talking about firing one full power centerfire shot. Using a rimfire just makes it worse.

I know, I couldn't help myself.....

I missed this bit of the discussion. I agree. The only time I use single shot is when I am missing and cant call which shot is a miss, draw or follow up.

[cheby]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts so far.

I believe live practice beats dry practice, assuming time and money are no issue.

This is actually incorrect. There are certain things that should be practiced in dry fire. It helps to isolate to focus on a particular skill. The recoil actually could be often a distraction preventing you from understanding why exactly something is not working. A lot of top shooters actually dry fire at the RANGE in addition to live fire.

[miller_man]

Also, I didn't mention earlier - I think all the shooting done with 22 should be made a good bit harder, accuracy wise. In my goal - the head shots I count good with the 22 must be in the 4" zero in the head box, with the 9mm inside the head box is acceptable. Also, I think you should maintain more rounds fired with your center fire overall than with the 22, or else you will have probably start having grip, recoil management and probably timing issues with you center fire.

I don't think you can take anything you can do with the 22 and think you can/will do the same with centerfire - but IMO, it is a stepping stone into being able to do so with your centerfire. YMMV.

[GJM]

Set up a widely spaced steel array, and knock yourself out with a .22. The draw and first shot is similar, as is the transition.

[GJM]

I don't think you can take anything you can do with the 22 and think you can/will do the same with centerfire - but IMO, it is a stepping stone into being able to do so with your centerfire. YMMV.

While being able to do it with a Glock 44, for example doesn’t mean you can do it with a Glock 19, if you can’t do it with a Glock 44 you probably can NOT do it with a 19.

There are three core skills — align the sights, press the trigger and control recoil. The .22 allows you to practice the sights and trigger part.

[Jeff22]

Yeah, use of the .22 is a SUPPLEMENT to practice with full caliber ammunition, NOT a replacement. Unless you are in a situation where the centerfire ammo is hard to find or unreasonably expensive or something.

Or if you have access to an older range with a backstop that only takes .22s or something. 35+ years ago I had occasional access to a 50 foot indoor range in an Army National Guard armory where you could only shoot .22s. So we shot .22 target pistols and my S&W 18 and an AR with a .22 conversion unit. So we'd go in there once a month after we got off work at 0700 and shoot for an hour. Everything we did was accuracy based on reduced targets and it was good practice.

[JHC]

While being able to do it with a Glock 44, for example doesn’t mean you can do it with a Glock 19, if you can’t do it with a Glock 44 you probably can NOT do it with a 19.

There are three core skills — align the sights, press the trigger and control recoil. The .22 allows you to practice the sights and trigger part.

I think the feathweight 44 will make it more challenging than with the heavier pistol. Fundamentals will need to be on point if it's to a low probability target.

I have been persuaded that learning a fast accurate first single shot is thee most important step overall. We have scads of life feedback that a first dead nuts hit has a very strong correlation with successful outcomes. I should think the .22 helpful for that.

#JackWilson

[BehindBlueI's]

FWIW, I find it an odd argument that dry fire is beneficial but rim fire training isn't. Any argument against rim fire applies equally, or more so, to dry fire. If you aren't honest with yourself, "calling your shots", just going through the motions, etc. dry fire can build and reinforce all the bad habits that are being laid at the feet of rim fires. I view this option as sort of a "dry fire with verification" middle ground.

[45dotACP]

FWIW, I find it an odd argument that dry fire is beneficial but rim fire training isn't. Any argument against rim fire applies equally, or more so, to dry fire. If you aren't honest with yourself, "calling your shots", just going through the motions, etc. dry fire can build and reinforce all the bad habits that are being laid at the feet of rim fires. I view this option as sort of a "dry fire with verification" middle ground.

This.

I can pick up my Ruger Mk IV, shoot a few mags through it, and then pick up a totally different gun and still shoot that gun better.

Calling shots, trigger press, sight alignment...these are all things that are grossly underrated.


Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[JHC]

This range report shooting the 5x5 classifier with a G19 and then a G44 is not about draw to first shot of course. However their observations reveal some clues.

Most importantly:
1. G44 trigger was somewhat lighter than the shooter's G19 trigger
2. Shooter's hits were somewhat worse shooting the G44.

The shooter observed he thought he could blaze and his trigger press and recoil anticipation dispersed his .22 hits a bit more.

Light pistols can be tricky. If one got to a high level of performance in a draw to first shot to a low probability target - I bet their fundamentals will translate well to their Glock standard frame centerfire shooting.

A watch out would be don't cheat the grip due to light recoil and maybe lighter trigger. I've been vulnerable to that training dry fire and it bites ya in the ass in live fire.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD9q9TrrSBQ&feature=youtu.be&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GearScout+01.08.20&utm_term=Editorial+-+GearScout+Weekly

[RJ]

JHC thanks for that range report. That’s very useful. I’m going to pump the brakes on my planned G44 purchase until I can shoot one.

[camsdaddy]

I have not rear all of the responses so forgive if I repeat something already mentioned. First there is no better reason to get a Glock 44 than because you want a Glock 44. I think the 44 will provide some noise and some recoil and dry fire will produce neither. I think dry fire with your actual gun will help you as much as a 44 will but that is my totally unproved opinion. Honestly I think using your only gun and breaking the first shot with your actual carry gun will help more than the 44.
In the wake of the Texas shooting a friend and I went to the range Sunday afternoon. We focused on draw to first shot and then reholstered documented time and then shot again. We would shoot 5-10 reps a piece and then let the other shoot. The day before in 2 hours I had shot 300+ rounds. On Sunday at the end of the day I had shot 101 rounds in 3 hours and 20 of those were rapid fire at a moving target rig. In all honesty that was the cheapest most beneficial range trip I have ever made.
If you want the 44 that is a great idea. If you want to improve draw and first shot I think dry fire and a shot timer at the range will help as much as anything

[GJM]

This range report shooting the 5x5 classifier with a G19 and then a G44 is not about draw to first shot of course. However their observations reveal some clues.

Most importantly:
1. G44 trigger was somewhat lighter than the shooter's G19 trigger
2. Shooter's hits were somewhat worse shooting the G44.

The shooter observed he thought he could blaze and his trigger press and recoil anticipation dispersed his .22 hits a bit more.

Light pistols can be tricky. If one got to a high level of performance in a draw to first shot to a low probability target - I bet their fundamentals will translate well to their Glock standard frame centerfire shooting.

A watch out would be don't cheat the grip due to light recoil and maybe lighter trigger. I've been vulnerable to that training dry fire and it bites ya in the ass in live fire.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD9q9TrrSBQ&feature=youtu.be&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GearScout+01.08.20&utm_term=Editorial+-+GearScout+Weekly

This was borderline painful to watch. First, the shooter is a “hinger,” which hurts his performance and is visually unattractive. Second, I would suggest that the 5x5 drill is exactly the kind of a drill you should not do as a benchmark against a 9mm, as it is basically a recoil control drill. Use the G44 as dry fire with target variation, for practicing one shot and transition, or slowish B8 shooting where you are testing sights and trigger and grip is irrelevant.

[Alpha Sierra]

the shooter is a “hinger,”

Is that the guy in the black shirt, bending way over at the waist?

[JHC]

This was borderline painful to watch. First, the shooter is a “hinger,” which hurts his performance and is visually unattractive. Second, I would suggest that the 5x5 drill is exactly the kind of a drill you should not do as a benchmark against a 9mm, as it is basically a recoil control drill. Use the G44 as dry fire with target variation, for practicing one shot and transition, or slowish B8 shooting where you are testing sights and trigger and grip is irrelevant.

I agree and I have agreed it could be useful for skill development such as those you have mentioned or IMO in the OP's use case also. They did a useful service however by comparing the two in ANY shooting test - not for the 5x5 scores per se, but for the observations they made about managing the 44.

[GJM]

Is that the guy in the black shirt, bending way over at the waist?

46961

[GJM]

Is that the guy in the black shirt, bending way over at the waist?

Exaggerated, but a very short vid on hinging:


https://youtu.be/Vo4YlntED2M

[Alpha Sierra]

Exaggerated, but a very short vid on hinging:


https://youtu.be/Vo4YlntED2M

I used to have that bad habit, along with locking my elbows out. Both have since been fixed.

[edison]

the only thing 22lr does for me is make 9mm minor feel like 9major power factor when i switch back to it.

[Jim Watson]

A place to go:

GSSF Rimfire Division
The Rimfire Division is for the GLOCK model G44. Rimfire Division entries qualify for the “500 Club” special recognition patch.

[Jeff22]

So I picked up a Glock 44 on Friday.

I ran 200 rounds of CCI mini mags through it with 100% reliability (!!!)

The trigger was crisp. I shot it at 30 and 50 feet on the indoor range. At 50 feet the gun seemed to shoot a little high for me and the group opened up, but that may have been me and not the gun.

[Rex G]

This has been an interesting read, and I will revisit, when I have more time.

At this moment, I must say is that I hate to think where my skill level might be, had I not owned my S&W Model 17-4 .22 LR revolving pistol, when .40 S&W recoil became too much for my formerly-stronger hand, starting at age forty-nine. (Thumb and wrist, to be precise.) .40 was the mandated duty cartridge, and the duty pistol choice was narrow. My choice was a SIG P229R DAK, which nicely mimics the DA stroke of a K-Frame S&W revolver. During a 60-round qual, 48 shots were fired “strong” hand, and that is exactly how many shots of .40 I fired, right-handed, annually. My other right-handed shots were fired with some milder centerfire, and, mostly, .22 LR.

Being able to carry a 9mm Glock G19 or G17, on duty, was my 54th birthday gift, but that was partially taken-back two years later, when a G19 became too much, unless I installed a WML on the rail, to damp muzzle flip, but, by then, the range officers were enforcing the no-WML rule*. Fortunately, a G17 remained, and still remains shootable, in reasonable quantity, so I can continue to train realistically, in moderation, right-handed. I look forward to acquiring a G44, to use as a training supplement.

Those who know me might wonder why I did not simply started carrying lefty, as I am a natural left-handed person, and was functionally ambidextrous with that P229. Well, with a proper thumb-forward grasp, with my right hand in the support role, the recoil dynamics of that .40 P229 were still brutal, to my right wrist. Plus, carrying @ 0300 meant that my healthier left hand remained available for plenty of other important tasks. The long-term remediation was to switch to a lower-bore-axis weapon, and get away from .40 Snap & Whip.

*I never managed to attend one of the far-too-few WML certification training classes, that would have enabled me to use a WML on duty.

[Jeff22]

I've had my G44 for about 5 weeks and put 1,700 rounds (testing 8 different kinds of .22 ammo) through it and had NO malfunctions.

I shot 200 or so rounds each time (once I shot 300) and cleaned the gun after every range session.

I mostly did accuracy drills at 50 feet on reduced silhouettes.

I think it's a good way to practice some basic skills for cheap. As somebody in this discussion said, one has to be sure not to get sloppy with the grip tension on the support hand.