Ruger-57. No Longer Just Internet Rumor

[Tokarev]

https://ruger.com/micros/57/

I have had this gun about a month but was sworn to secrecy by my friends at Ruger.

I haven't put a ton of rounds through the gun. Frankly I haven't been able to find much ammo locally. I've only been able to find a box of the AE stuff. But I have been able to handload some for it. Not disclosing my load data but I'm using Lyman and Accurate data with a 40gr bullet.

The gun shoots flat. Really no recoil to speak of. The trigger is good and measures around six pounds. Ergos are good too. Overall it should be a fun and useful pistol.

Down sides? It doesn't feel "duty worthy." It is based off the LCP and Security 9 and feels somewhat budget conscious. There isn't really anything outright wrong with the gun but I don't think it'll cut into FN's sales much. More of a hobby gun rather than a military piece.

I'd like to see a slight bevel to the mag well. It would also be nice to have more of a milled-in base for a red dot. One will be available but it is a bolt-on deal that sits above the slide.

What are your questions?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191231/ff04a81a463d9db7658817e3d24087fd.jpg

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[ECVMatt]

Lots of good info here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ous3RprumzQ

I am excited about this one and will be curious to see what FN does in response.

What is your overall impression of the gun? Do you have a FN to compare it with?

Very jealous.

[Tokarev]

Lots of good info here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ous3RprumzQ

I am excited about this one and will be curious to see what FN does in response.

What is your overall impression of the gun? Do you have a FN to compare it with?

Very jealous.I have not messed with a Five seveN in probably a decade so I can only go off memory. The Ruger grip is smaller and shorter due to the smaller overall magazine. Controls are easy to work--specifically the safety. 1911 style not the oddball FN safety.



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[HeavyDuty]

I didn’t see that one coming!

[Tokarev]

Size of the gun is fairly large. And of course the grip is long and skinny based on what it is chambered for.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191231/bdb1d711a43cd7e3bc7ed85cdc4accdf.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191231/b88327c6bcd25975f44e52fa1a2b4ed4.jpg

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[Tokarev]

Mags are relatively small.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191231/8bd69abb2bba80b77841d5dd90af0ef7.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191231/8186a14d40f571ee91d852d9fb4103d3.jpg

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[Tokarev]

A red dot plate can be attached here. Ruger will have a couple different mounts available.

Sights appear to be Novak cut although I believe a standard Novak rear would overhang.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191231/2c6a3ed3796ac960b331d8dea726ef54.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191231/60bada2d92774264e0e7ec93e902f7b7.jpg

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[TGS]

What are your questions?

A Ruger 5.7 pistol about 25 years after the extremely short lived, and very shallow heyday of the 5.7.

Why?

[Tokarev]

The gun is blowback but with a toggle affair that cams down in recoil. Barrel and slide travel backwards together a short distance. There is no cam and/or locking block on the barrel.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191231/c99e58bbe369abdb54b9e7bd334720e1.jpg

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191231/3a28396e0df4f87257df4362914cf78d.jpg

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[Whirlwind06]

Is it similar to the security 9 in size?

What kind of accuracy are you seeing?

Are there sight options?

Don't suppose it is cut for a red dot?

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ETA you answered most of these as I was posting. Thanks!

[Tokarev]

Disassembly is simple. The slide latch is pushed to the right until it stops. Magazine base plate works fine as a tool.

The lock is then rotated down and the slide comes off. Reassemble in reverse order.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191231/c55d76c3fac718211796a830b134e8c8.jpg

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191231/fa9a19bafb15aed3104af893416e1200.jpg

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[TheNewbie]

Sneaky post! I like it.


What is your thought on the manual safety? It looks good.

[Tokarev]

Hammer fired. Based on LCP and Security 9.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191231/708ab70986353f9dc03c8ba561fe6b47.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191231/a5bf367c70960803185df7dac437e4ca.jpg

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[Hi-Point Aficionado]

Why?

I have a reloading press or three, have been putting off a PMR-30, and melons on the 50 yard berm aren't going to 'splode themselves. Here's hoping a buddy scores one first so I can play with it as the .22 LCP II and moonclip-fed .380 Taurus snub are #1 & 2 on the acquisitions list.

[Tokarev]

Mag well should have been flared. At least a little.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191231/23b03f0f6748183db429879011d67700.jpg

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[farscott]

Thanks for the mini-review. My questions: 1) What makes the Ruger-57 feel/seem not duty-worthy? Ruger is known for making tough-as-nails guns at affordable prices due to modern manufacturing and for standing behind said guns (as opposed to FN who seems to shy away from support). 2) Is the grip frame suitable for those of us with short fingers?

[Tokarev]

Sneaky post! I like it.


What is your thought on the manual safety? It looks good.

Decent size. Positive activation and deactivation. I do wish it sat at a slight upward angle just to sort of keep my thumb away from the slide release.

[Tokarev]

Thanks for the mini-review. My questions: 1) What makes the Ruger-57 feel/seem not duty-worthy? Ruger is known for making tough-as-nails guns at affordable prices due to modern manufacturing and for standing behind said guns (as opposed to FN who seems to shy away from support). 2) Is the grip frame suitable for those of us with short fingers?

Just a general impression I have. I'm sure the gun is plenty durable. But the red dot plate is an afterthought. Just some stuff like that that could have been fixed during testing. Same with the mag well. Plus the safety levers feel somewhat flimsy.

Grip is long and narrow. Just the nature of the beast. I don't know how people with smaller hands will like the gun. But if the Five seveN isn't too big you'll like the Ruger.

[Tokarev]

A Ruger 5.7 pistol about 25 years after the extremely short lived, and very shallow heyday of the 5.7.

Why?

Not going to lie. I have some doubts about this gun. I think it'll sell well for about six months until all the 5.7 fanboys have one. Then after that it'll be on closeout at CDNN.

My thoughts on firearms in general; to be successful the gun needs to have a practical purpose. Hunting or defense, etc. If not either of those it needs to be cheap to shoot. The 5.7 is not really either of those. I hope I'm wrong. But there's a limited market for something like this...

[john c]

How's the accuracy?

[fly out]

I suspect that they came in a bit high on the price. If street prices were in the fours, I think they'd sell for a while. At high-fives to low-sixes, it may be more of a stretch for its intended customer. I am not the intended customer, so I could be wrong.

I'm almost always happy to see new guns coming out, so, good for them. Hope they sell.

[farscott]

Not going to lie. I have some doubts about this gun. I think it'll sell well for about six months until all the 5.7 fanboys have one. Then after that it'll be on closeout at CDNN.

I hope I'm wrong. But there's a limited market for something like this...

I agree about the limited market, mostly due to the ammo being scarce and Ruger not having the cachet of FN. I had one of the original FN IOM models and sold it due to ammo becoming scarce and expensive after Sandy Hook and someone willing to pay an absurd price to take it off my hands. I am not going to be an early adopter of the Ruger-57, but a deal on CDNN would likely see me dinging my credit card.

[Tokarev]

How's the accuracy?

I'll get some more formal stuff done ASAP. But I have no problems hitting a B/C zone steel plate at 50 yards.

[paherne]

$799 MSRP? What is Ruger smoking? $599 with a street price of around 5 will sell a ton.

[Tokarev]

Formal review:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/12/31/tested-ruger-57-pistol/

Note the testing of the new Speer Gold Dot load. That's pretty cool.

[LittleLebowski]

How is muzzle blast? Threaded barrel availability?

[Tokarev]

Now that the gun is officially out I'll have to take it to a local shop and have him make me a kydex holster. I didn't want to do it earlier over concerns he might leak a photo. But my concerns were without merit. This has probably been one of the worst top secret pistol launches in recent memory. Even the Glock 44 announcement was kept under better wraps.

[Tokarev]

How is muzzle blast? Threaded barrel availability?

There are a few accessories up on the Shop Ruger page. No barrels yet although I believe one's coming. Same with the extended floor plate and/or 30rd mag.

Muzzle blast is fine. Loud but really not bad.

[Hambo]

What are your questions?

Do your friends at Ruger listen to you? If so, there are a lot of guns I would like Ruger to make.

About the 57, I think you're right about popularity and sales. The LCP will sell far more than the 57.

[Obelisk]

5 and under I’ll buy the 57 Yeet cannon. Over 5, pfffffffff... I’ll just buy another FN 57 with the well planned lever safety and park both next to my PS90 for even more glamorous pics to post on Instagram as I larp around my house and await the fire sale at Centerfire Systems for the low price of $399.

[Tokarev]

Do your friends at Ruger listen to you?

Nope.


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[Tokarev]

The LCP will sell far more than the 57.

It probably already has. I have no way of knowing but would guess distributor orders for the LCP 22 are far and away above the 57 orders.


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[Screwball]

Shot in the dark, but are the magazines Ruger specific or do FN magazines work?

With the PC Carbine offered with Glock magazines, I would figure that would be a smart move to stick with a current magazine. Add in CMMG Banshee in 5.7mm... why do your own magazine design?

[Tokarev]

Shot in the dark, but are the magazines Ruger specific or do FN magazines work?

With the PC Carbine offered with Glock magazines, I would figure that would be a smart move to stick with a current magazine. Add in CMMG Banshee in 5.7mm... why do your own magazine design?

Unique to the Ruger....

[Tokarev]

How is muzzle blast? Threaded barrel availability?

Just guessing here since I have no experience with the 5.7 and suppressors but how would the unlocked/blowback action work with a can? I assume the action will unlock even faster and blow fouling all over the place.

[jellydonut]

I was hoping for a striker-fired 5.7 option, but I guess this is a kinda cool first step.

[Nightvisionary]

A Ruger 5.7 pistol about 25 years after the extremely short lived, and very shallow heyday of the 5.7.

Why?

46550

[LockedBreech]

This one is gonna be a flash in the pan, but it's a fun, bold, adventurous flash in the pan, so I salute Ruger for it.

[Screwball]

Unique to the Ruger....

Thanks...

And [emoji107] to Ruger. Might be able to redeem themselves with 10 round extensions.

[Hambo]

Nope.

That's a bummer.

[Nightvisionary]

So we finally have a sub $700 home defense handgun with velocities beyond 2000 FPS that can provide useful cavitation terminal effects. What's not to like?

[Tokarev]

So we finally have a sub $700 home defense handgun with velocities beyond 2000 FPS that can provide useful cavitation terminal effects. What's not to like?

Not likely to achieve 2000+ FPS from this handgun. Factory AE ran something like 1,650 FPS over my chrono. My 40gr VMAX loads are running about 1,750. From what I've read that's pretty close to what the factory FN 40gr does from the Five seveN.

Maybe with the 27gr stuff it'll get there. But that bullet breaks apart immediately in gel from what I've seen. No personal experience with it however.

[Tokarev]

That's a bummer.

I think the best way to describe it would be, "They humor me..."

Not to make light of my relationship. There are many solid people working for Ruger and I am happy to be acquainted with them. But they have many market forces that come into effect. What I think might be a good idea might sway production costs too far outside of what their design folks want to do. Or the marketing guys don't think some features are needed, etc.

Ruger knows its market. I made a comment some years ago to my friend about making the AR556 with a mid-length gas system. But would that have really made any difference? Would a sub-$600 AR sold any better with a slightly longer gas tube?

[Nightvisionary]

Not likely to achieve 2000+ FPS from this handgun. Factory AE ran something like 1,650 FPS over my chrono. My 40gr VMAX loads are running about 1,750. From what I've read that's pretty close to what the factory FN 40gr does from the Five seveN.

Maybe with the 27gr stuff it'll get there. But that bullet breaks apart immediately in gel from what I've seen. No personal experience with it however.

I was thinking of loads from Elite Ammunition like the T6B that gives 2480 FPS from the 5.7 pistol or any of their 2000 FPS ballistic tip or FMJ pistol loads.

[HeavyDuty]

From the website: “Steel magazine provides double stack capacity without unnecessary bulk.” And Gaston takes fire...

I actually kinda like the idea. A needlegun for the masses!

[MolonLabe416]

I hope this leads to a 10/57. That would make a dandy woods loafing carbine.

[Tokarev]

I hope this leads to a 10/57. That would make a dandy woods loafing carbine.I agree.

If anything it will be a Ruger PCC.

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[Nightvisionary]

I hope this leads to a 10/57. That would make a dandy woods loafing carbine.


I agree.

If anything it will be a Ruger PCC.

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Ruger 10/57 Charger pistol with brace could be a poor mans P90.

[Hi-Point Aficionado]

I think the best way to describe it would be, "They humor me..."

Not to make light of my relationship. There are many solid people working for Ruger and I am happy to be acquainted with them. But they have many market forces that come into effect. What I think might be a good idea might sway production costs too far outside of what their design folks want to do. Or the marketing guys don't think some features are needed, etc.

I e-mailed them years back about taking the Mini-30 design and working it out to take 8-round enbloc clips of 7.62x39mm and calling it the Mini-Garand. Was told no in very clear terms. Maybe if you try, they'll see a market trend!

[Caballoflaco]

I can’t find it, but out there on the internets is a video of a cop with a p90 putting a couple of bursts into a guy’s torso and after the end of the second burst the shootee basically says something along the lines of “ok ok please stop shooting me” without much of a physical reaction at all.

[Polecat]

Should have spent their energy coming up with P365 competitor!

[Nightvisionary]

I can’t find it, but out there on the internets is a video of a cop with a p90 putting a couple of bursts into a guy’s torso and after the end of the second burst the shootee basically says something along the lines of “ok ok please stop shooting me” without much of a physical reaction at all.

I think I saw that but Im pretty sure the guy was wearing Level III body armor.

[Tokarev]

Should have spent their energy coming up with P365 competitor!That's in the works I'm sure.

No inside info. But how can they not be?

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[RevolverRob]

Ruger-57...

Okay. I guess it'll be popular with civilians who envision themselves getting into high volume gunfights with drug cartels.

For the rest of us, I guess I never could figure out what 5.7 does the .22 Hornet doesn't do, except I guess hold lots of bullets...Even .22 Hornet is cheaper and easier to reload.

Kinda would have preferred Ruger Built a Single-Seven in .22 Hornet.

[Nightvisionary]

Ruger-57...

Okay. I guess it'll be popular with civilians who envision themselves getting into high volume gunfights with drug cartels.

For the rest of us, I guess I never could figure out what 5.7 does the .22 Hornet doesn't do, except I guess hold lots of bullets...Even .22 Hornet is cheaper and easier to reload.

Kinda would have preferred Ruger Built a Single-Seven in .22 Hornet.

Very few people born after 1960 have ever heard of the .22 Hornet. Every GenXer, Millenial, and whatever the one is after that that have played any COD or other FPS game knows what the 5.7 is. Like it or not that in large part pushes current firearm sales. Companies are marketing to the those with disposable incomes not those on fixed incomes. Compaines are looking forward not backward to the 22 Hornet and cap and ball muskets. Does Federal load American Eagle 22 Hornet or do I have to get that ammo from Old Western Scrounger?:D

[Tokarev]

Ruger-57...

Okay. I guess it'll be popular with civilians who envision themselves getting into high volume gunfights with drug cartels.

For the rest of us, I guess I never could figure out what 5.7 does the .22 Hornet doesn't do, except I guess hold lots of bullets...Even .22 Hornet is cheaper and easier to reload.

Kinda would have preferred Ruger Built a Single-Seven in .22 Hornet.5.7 isn't particularly difficult to load for.



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[Tokarev]

More regarding my earlier comment about the Ruger not being a serious duty gun:

I haven't verified it yet the sight dovetails appear to be Novak. The issue is the rear dovetail is located farther back on the slide. A standard Novak rear should fit but it'll overhang the back.

A shame since being able to slap a set of Novak suppressor sights to use in conjunction with a red dot would have been nice.

How hard would it have been to build the thing to take Glock sights?


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[farscott]

This thread has turned into one of the best "new gun reviews" ever. Thanks to Tokarev for sharing his experience and answering questions about a brand new firearm that literally just hit the market. This thread reinforces what is great about this forum.

[Navin Johnson]

Tokarev

Will you buy one?

[Tokarev]

Tokarev

Will you buy one?I don't know. It is fun to play with but ultimately not very practical.

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[Tokarev]

Did I link this already?

Good pics and some velocity info here:

https://www.realguns.com/articles/1159.htm

[zaitcev]

If anything it will be a Ruger PCC.
And again, probably half the price of CMMG Banshee in 5.7, not to mention that Banshee is a pistol with a brace.

[Tokarev]

And again, probably half the price of CMMG Banshee in 5.7.

That goes without saying.

[GardoneVT]

Thanks for sharing. For ordinary shooters this is purely a funsies gun; nuthin wrong with that.

Perhaps an LE agency with access to AP rounds and a very specific mission set could pick it up as a cheaper U.S.A. built alternative to the Five Seven.

[Tokarev]

Thanks for sharing. For ordinary shooters this is purely a funsies gun; nuthin wrong with that.

Perhaps an LE agency with access to AP rounds and a very specific mission set could pick it up as a cheaper U.S.A. built alternative to the Five Seven.

I think Ruger knows this gun will not generate any LE interest. That ties into my comment that the gun isn't ready for duty use. Ruger built this as a fun hobbyist blaster. That doesn't mean an agency might buy a few for specialist applications but I doubt Ruger will be pushing the gun in LE markets. But none of that will happen without someone making a duty holster.

You're right that there's nuthin wrong with building a funsies gun and that's what Ruger did here. But I will say again that if a gun has no practical use it needs to be cheap to shoot. I still think ammo prices will likely be Ruger's downfall.

[Tokarev]

Dang I need to quit using my phone for 99% of my Internet stuff. Not sure how I doubled up the measurement pics. Anyway here's one showing the pistol's overall length.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200101/adbb54d8407424fdeb13310ad08f5991.jpg

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[11B10]

Tokarev, many thanks for all the information. At the very least, you've stimulated our imaginations, which is never a bad thing. I've always been curious about the 5.7, but could never be serious because of the prohibitive cost. Ruger has made a realistic attempt to change that and I'm sure prices will eventually come down.

[eclecticmoose]

Thanks for posting this, Tokarev. My first thought upon seeing this was "trapper pistol." Happy New Year to all.

[Tokarev]

. My first thought upon seeing this was "trapper pistol." .

Is that a thing? As in do people still trap? And why would a trapper choose something like this when a 22 or 22 Mag would be way cheaper to shoot?

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[eclecticmoose]

Is that a thing? As in do people still trap? And why would a trapper choose something like this when a 22 or 22 Mag would be way cheaper to shoot?

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Yes, people still do trap. No real reason for it to come to mind other than it's a .22 centerfire (small bore, less pelt damage--at least with non-expanding). Not a trapper so not claiming any expertise, didn't mean to derail thread.

[Tokarev]

In response to some chatter about the safety. I like a manual safety on a handgun and this one works well enough. As previously mentioned I wish it was at a bit of an upward angle when off and/or wasn't so flat.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200101/c3ba5c61d809801d1eb40ed5355db348.jpg

My bigger complaint ergonomically is the trigger guard. Too Glock-like in that it is too shallow. My trigger finger rubs on the bottom when I shoot.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200101/aa60a096bb9f30bccdf4fc15680108cc.jpg


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[zaitcev]

Disappointingly enough, it appears that Steel Challenge rulebook does not permit 5.7x28. I looked through all centerfire divisions.

[Nightvisionary]

Interesting ballistic gelatin test with Elite Ammunition 5.7 load I mentioned previously.



https://youtu.be/xbMlxdp1cSw

[mmc45414]

I think the all of us tend to want to figure out "reasons" for stuff like this.

I think the reason Ruger made it was to sell a few thousand and revenue a few million, and priced it such that people will buy it is because it is cool and interesting and not need any other reason. Those folks will not shoot it enough for the cost of ammo to matter.

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[Tokarev]

it is cool and interesting and not need any other reason. Those folks will not shoot it enough for the cost of ammo to matter.

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That's quite true.

Still, I scratch my head over stuff like this. Would a medium frame LCR not be a wiser/safer bet? Surely the design has already been drawn up on paper. All it would take is the sales or production manager to give it a green light.

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[LtDave]

I've always thought that the FN57 and now the Ruger-57 would make a good handgun for military aircrew. Lightweight, high capacity, easy to shoot for non dedicated gunfighters and potentially useful against enemy personnel and for small game hunting. 40 rounds carried on body with perhaps another 50 rounds in the survival kit.

[Nightvisionary]

That's quite true.

Still, I scratch my head over stuff like this. Would a medium frame LCR not be a wiser/safer bet? Surely the design has already been drawn up on paper. All it would take is the sales or production manager to give it a green light.

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There was a time when if you wanted a .223/5.56 semi-auto rifle you had one choice and it was spelled C O L T A R 1 5. Then Ruger released the Mini-14 in 1973. Sure in 1973 .223 ammo was expensive and hard to find, sure lots of guys said that new .223/5.56 cartridge was a good for nothing under powered niche round, sure guys asked what purpose could it possibly serve when surplus 30-06 and 30 Carbine was just slightly more expensive than 22LR.

I think I will give the marketing guys at Ruger the benefit of the doubt just this one time.;)

[Tokarev]

I think I will give the marketing guys at Ruger the benefit of the doubt just this one time.;)

Don't get me wrong. I want this pistol to suceed. With that said, I won't be shocked if it underwhelms in several areas and for several reasons. Chief among them ammo availability and price.

Call me cautiously optimistic.


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[Navin Johnson]

At $400 a case for ammo I think I would choose a 1911 for fun shooting. Ammo is cheaper and if one chooses a quality gun resale will be far better.

However if this blows ones skirt up then awesome and go for it. I have a friend who jumps on every firearm trend....looking forward to trying one.

[HCM]

I've always thought that the FN57 and now the Ruger-57 would make a good handgun for military aircrew. Lightweight, high capacity, easy to shoot for non dedicated gunfighters and potentially useful against enemy personnel and for small game hunting. 40 rounds carried on body with perhaps another 50 rounds in the survival kit.

The one big hole in that supposition is that the 5.7 round is not potentially useful against enemy personnel unless you shoot them 20 times. Even then real world results have been marginal. Which brings you back to the P90, not the 57 pistol. The 57 pistol was basically just a marketing afterthought for the P90.

If one wanted to go with a micro round regardless, the HK 4.6 has produced better results and the MP7 is a better dual role choice than the P90 or the 57 pistol. The volume of ammo necessary to be useful against enemy personnel is still a problem though.

[spyderco monkey]

I've always thought that the FN57 and now the Ruger-57 would make a good handgun for military aircrew. Lightweight, high capacity, easy to shoot for non dedicated gunfighters and potentially useful against enemy personnel and for small game hunting. 40 rounds carried on body with perhaps another 50 rounds in the survival kit.

Yes it would.

Cartridge weights:
5.7x28 = 6.5g per cartridge
9x19 124gr = 12.6g per cartridge
5.56 62gr = 12g per cartridge

So for any sort of survival application on foot, one can carry ~2x the amount of 5.7 then they could 9x19 or 5.56.

50rd boxes of 5.7 are also very compact; you could easily fit 3x of them in a cargo pant/jacket pocket. 150rds is 2.15lbs, less then 2x 16oz water bottles.

This pic provides some scale. From memory, they are about ~ 1.5" tall x 3" long.

https://d3gxe0jmvtuxbc.cloudfront.net/images/Product/large/3380.jpg

And 500rd cases come in these wonderful little 'Textbook' sized cases, which can be easily fit into a backpack.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/userimages/100604/906764884/wm_5457374.jpg

[Trigger]

So could one call this reloadable 22 Magnum? 221 Fireball Short? Seems like it is a better 10/22 magnum (10/57 as mentioned) round, than a pistol self defense round. I guess I look at it for squirrel and varmint hunting.

[Nightvisionary]

So could one call this reloadable 22 Magnum? 221 Fireball Short? Seems like it is a better 10/22 magnum (10/57 as mentioned) round, than a pistol self defense round. I guess I look at it for squirrel and varmint hunting.

That's a big negative. My Keltec PMR 30 22 Magnum pistol gets 1200 FPS with 40 grain ammunition. The FN 5.7 pistol gets 1650-2050 FPS with 40 grain ammunition and up to 2480 FPS with 27 grain ammunition. You guys reading 22 magnum factory ammo ballistic charts to make comparisons are forgetting 22 WMR is primarily a rifle cartridge. Listed factory specs with that round are for 20+ inch barrels.

[Trigger]

That's a big negative. My Keltec PMR 30 22 Magnum pistol gets 1200 FPS with 40 grain ammunition. The FN 5.7 pistol gets 1650-2050 FPS with 40 grain ammunition and up to 2480 FPS with 27 grain ammunition. You guys reading 22 magnum factory ammo ballistic charts to make comparisons are forgetting 22 WMR is primarily a rifle cartridge. Listed factory specs with that round are for 20+ inch barrels.

Hmmm. OK.

[Tokarev]

Target at 25 yards. Ten rounds fired off a sandbag. Fired case for size reference. Case is 1.137" more or less.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200102/7d41c323fe655f038532b953c92f360c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200102/22b01186247ee42cc3f12219aa2d8612.jpg

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[Tokarev]

And target at 35 yards offhand. Twenty rounds. Magazine for reference is about 5" long. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200102/3977c94ce2160571c28a72a78741cc0a.jpg

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[Tokarev]

Another thing to comment on. The gun is a "chassis" gun. Not as quick to pop the grip frame off as a 320 but the idea is there. Unfortunately Ruger has no current plans for grip modules.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200102/7b19a75d0f561b9cfaaa0ebdb5153878.jpg

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[spyderco monkey]

So could one call this reloadable 22 Magnum? 221 Fireball Short? Seems like it is a better 10/22 magnum (10/57 as mentioned) round, than a pistol self defense round. I guess I look at it for squirrel and varmint hunting.

5.7 - 4.8" FsN barrel:
https://i.ibb.co/HGc3gkC/Five-Seven-Velocity.png

.22 Magnum - 4.3" PMR 30:
https://i.ibb.co/Ltwzjhv/22-magnum-PMR-30-Velocity.png

When you also factor in that 5.7 uses real, Spitzer .224 rifle projectiles, vs the really stubby .22 mag projectiles, it's clear theres a marked difference between calibers.

[spyderco monkey]

In terms of performance for the new Speer 5.7 Gold Dot, I suspect we will see performance similar to the old 'Elite Protector III' load, which was also a flat nose JHP profile similar to the Gold Dot prototypes that have been shown.

46gr @ 1750fps / 312 ftlbs, so a bit hotter then the Speer 40gr @ 1790 / 285 ftlbs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0DuCw63XcQ

https://i.ibb.co/10xydzY/Screen-Shot-2020-01-01-at-4-30-44-PM.png

https://i.ibb.co/KN7sCdM/Screen-Shot-2020-01-01-at-4-32-38-PM.png

Not world shattering performance, but a very compelling self defense option for 'Low Recoil Shooters.'

[Le Français]

Tim Kennedy carries a 5.7 because it’ll go through cars and fires a 40-grain rifle round at 3000 fps out of a pistol. [emoji849]

https://youtu.be/i8EFX6CJPTY

[HCM]

Tim Kennedy carries a 5.7 because it’ll go through cars and fires a 40-grain rifle round at 3000 fps out of a pistol. [emoji849]

https://youtu.be/i8EFX6CJPTY

What better side arm for jumping the shark ?

[HCM]

Another thing to comment on. The gun is a "chassis" gun. Not as quick to pop the grip frame off as a 320 but the idea is there. Unfortunately Ruger has no current plans for grip modules.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200102/7b19a75d0f561b9cfaaa0ebdb5153878.jpg

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If they want to be the future, they need and optics ready version.

[MandoWookie]

If they want to be the future, they need and optics ready version.

"The Ruger-57 shipped with a holster as well as an adapter plate for a Vortex red dot sight." From the Firearms Blog review. It doesn't use an MOS type system, but it does have optics capability out of the box.

[HCM]

"The Ruger-57 shipped with a holster as well as an adapter plate for a Vortex red dot sight." From the Firearms Blog review. It doesn't use an MOS type system, but it does have optics capability out of the box.

Dovetail Mount ?

[MandoWookie]

No, its drilled and tapped for an adapter plate just in front of the rear sight, it is just not inset into the slide like with other optics ready systems. It shows it in one of the reviews Tokarev linked earlier in the thread.

[MandoWookie]

Dovetail Mount ?

Here, this review Tokarev shared.

https://www.realguns.com/articles/1159.htm

[Tokarev]

The red dot mount goes here where these two screws are. Part of my comment about the gun not really being made for duty.

It seems to me that the gun was already 95% done when someone decided it needed a red dot mount. Rather than retool and revamp they decided to take a shortcut.

Now, if a red dot is used, it will sit way higher than it needs to. Likely will make finding sights that are high enough to use with a dot difficult.

In my opinion the gun should have used a recessed plate even if that meant taking the rear sight off as with the M17. And/or the gun should have been cut for Glock sights to make sourcing suppressor sights that much easier. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200102/94d1d95655a3e2637c8c284e249f989d.jpg

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[Tokarev]

Be mindful of flying trigger bar when taking chassis out of grip. Oops!

No harm done. Pistol is now back together....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200102/cfec33ccf361e516a2a99bcde79b560f.jpg

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[Nightvisionary]

If they want to be the future, they need and optics ready version.

Optics ready is a nice feature but the vast majority of pistol shooters don't put optics on their handguns.

[Tokarev]

Optics ready is a nice feature but the vast majority of pistol shooters don't put optics on their handguns.Not yet. But it is becoming more and more of a thing.

Would it really have killed Ruger to do it right and design a real mount into the slide?

On a related subject; one of the pitfalls of the blowback design is sensitivity to slide mass. Will the R57 function properly with some of the heavier dots on the market?

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[HCM]

Optics ready is a nice feature but the vast majority of pistol shooters don't put optics on their handguns.

Yet.

[MandoWookie]

I gotta say, this is a product I did not expect from any source, much less Ruger, and it's the only Ruger product I have been excited about for that I can remember that wasn't a rimfire.
As someone who has been fighting an illogical infatuation with the 5.7 cartridge since growing up watching SG-1 fighting the forces of an evil alien Egyptian pantheon on there jaunts through the old portcullis, the only thing that has held me back has been #1: the exorbitant cost of the firearms chambered for it and #2: the complete lack of any practical ammo selections for anything other than small varmints, with the available firing platforms not lending themselves to that task on top of things.
My interest in the caliber has always been that though it was designed around a specific role( now basically obsolete with the proliferation of rifle plates), it had unmet potential that could be exploited if it could get some projectile development from some of the big ammo companies with solid experience in developing effective self defense rounds for LE and civilian use. Elite ammo had some interesting developments, but they seem caught up in the usual boutique ammo company trap of hyped up chrono readings and non standard projectiles with "cool" names.
I've often speculated to myself what kind of performance you could get out of the cartridge if you brought over some of the developments from the .223, especially after looking at what some loads are capable of out of 10.5 inch barrels in that caliber. Speer putting a Gold Dot bullet capable on meeting the FBI minimum out of a handgun would certainly make it arguably more practical. Basically the 9mm vs. other calibers logic of better capacity/lower recoil/less projectile mass> less capacity/greater recoil/ higher projectile mass ,if the round performs within FBI minimums.

Now Ruger coming out with this product goes a long ways to ameliorate the buy in cost, and Speer coming out with the exact loading I had thought would be a good way to justify a use in the defensive role, the only major sticking point is the sustainment cost of high ammunition prices and limited selection thereof. I will defer to DocGKR on whether the Speer loading can or will actually be an effective or advisable defensive option, and I will wait for the experiences of first adopters as to the actual merits of Rugers offering before jumping on the bandwagon, and with this being an entirely new design from them(barring things adapted from their existing product lines), I fully expect there to be issues on release. So my excitement it tempered, but I really wish this product does well.

Besides I'm sure the new Space Force could use service handgun. Aliens ain't gonna kill themselves after all.

[MandoWookie]

On a related subject; one of the pitfalls of the blowback design is sensitivity to slide mass. Will the R57 function properly with some of the heavier dots on the market?

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Didn't one of the reviews(TFB's?) mention that Ruger recommended only red dots that weigh 1oz or less would be reliable with lighter weight projectiles? So I think that might answer the question. I dont really think that's a knock against Ruger, just the reality of the physics at work. Has anyone ever milled a FN 5.7 for a dot? I wonder if it would have issues with optic weight too.

[Tokarev]

Didn't one of the reviews(TFB's?) mention that Ruger recommended only red dots that weigh 1oz or less would be reliable with lighter weight projectiles? So I think that might answer the question. I dont really think that's a knock against Ruger, just the reality of the physics at work. Has anyone ever milled a FN 5.7 for a dot? I wonder if it would have issues with optic weight too.

It could be that Ruger's mounting point is fragile and doesn't withstand the back and forth slamming with a heavier optic. Or a heavier optic could retard cyclic speed and cause reliability problems. Maybe a combination of both?

[Tokarev]

Interesting that, for a pistol nobody on here wants, we have three different threads running on the topic.

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[Tokarev]

Being that the R57 is a chassis I wonder if the sales numbers will be there for something like this:

https://www.fluxdefense.com/video

Niche cartridge and niche gun meet a niche stock kit...

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[Redhat]

Maybe a fun target or field type pistol...

I would be curious to see what that round would do out of a sporting type rifle...17 HMR -ish thoughts here?

[claymore504]

I say good for Ruger. The 5.7 has been getting some more attention lately. I would pick this over a FN due to optics ready, safety location and price.

[Tokarev]

Didn't one of the reviews(TFB's?) mention that Ruger recommended only red dots that weigh 1oz or less would be reliable with lighter weight projectiles? So I think that might answer the question. I dont really think that's a knock against Ruger, just the reality of the physics at work. Has anyone ever milled a FN 5.7 for a dot? I wonder if it would have issues with optic weight too.

Taken from the American Rifleman review. I either missed it the first time or read it and only registered it in passing. Anyway, it looks like the slide/optic weight should be kept to a minimum for reliability.


Function testing was conducted both with and without a slide-mounted red-dot installed, in this case a Burris FastFire 3, to ensure reliability in both circumstances. Fortunately, it ran without any stoppages in both scenarios, to the tune of about 600 rounds, with the extra 1.2 ozs. added by the optic and its mount not having a detrimental impact on the functionality of the delayed-blowback system—although I assume there is a threshold over which the weight of an optic will begin to cause reliability issues.

[Tokarev]

Speer coming out with the exact loading I had thought would be a good way to justify a use in the defensive role, the only major sticking point is the sustainment cost of high ammunition prices and limited selection thereof. I will defer to DocGKR on whether the Speer loading can or will actually be an effective or advisable defensive option, .

As you may know, Speer loads a 40gr Gold Dot for the 22 Mag. It would be the "easy button" for them to simply load this bullet into a 5.7X28 case with 5.whatever grains of Ramshot True Blue and call it a defensive load. So now the question is how does the 22 Mag Gold Dot perform? Anyone have any gel data for the 22 Mag load running 1,750 fps? That should give us a pretty good idea of what to expect from the 5.7.

[farscott]

Bud's pre-order price is $679. Team Bud's members can order now; Monday for everyone. I am not sure how well it sell at that pricing. Yes, it is much less than FN offerings, but we will see.

[Tokarev]

Bud's pre-order price is $679. Team Bud's members can order now; Monday for everyone. I am not sure how well it sell at that pricing. Yes, it is much less than FN offerings, but we will see.I haven't checked prices but I've read on a couple other forums that there are some places selling the FN for $900-ish. The FN ships with three mags.

The Ruger, at almost $700, may not be that far below an actual FN especially factoring in the third magazine.

So is the lowered pricing a reaponse to the Ruger or just distributors getting rid of old unsold stock?

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[farscott]

I haven't checked prices but I've read on a couple other forums that there are some places selling the FN for $900-ish. The FN ships with three mags.

The Ruger, at almost $700, may not be that far below an actual FN especially factoring in the third magazine.

So is the lowered pricing a reaponse to the Ruger or just distributors getting rid of old unsold stock?

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Just to keep it "apples to apples", Bud's price on the FN is $1332. I expect that to drop some, but even at $900, the Ruger is a good deal even factoring in $50 for an extra magazine. $$729 versus $900 is 19% less, and one can wait a bit to buy the extra magazine. For shooters on a budget (not that the 5.7 makes a ton of sense for shooters on a budget), the difference is significant.

[Tokarev]

Just to keep it "apples to apples", Bud's price on the FN is $1332. I expect that to drop some, but even at $900, the Ruger is a good deal even factoring in $50 for an extra magazine. $$729 versus $900 is 19% less, and one can wait a bit to buy the extra magazine. For shooters on a budget (not that the 5.7 makes a ton of sense for shooters on a budget), the difference is significant.No doubt the Ruger will come down to something like $589 after a few months. I don't know about mags. They probably won't come down much.

On a somewhat related note I did call Flux Defense earlier. They are interested in making a stock and/or brace kit for the 57. I'll loan them my loaner if they need an immediate specimen to look at.

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[surevaliance]

Please wake me up when it is 7.62x25 Tokarev.

[spyderco monkey]

I haven't checked prices but I've read on a couple other forums that there are some places selling the FN for $900-ish. The FN ships with three mags.

The Ruger, at almost $700, may not be that far below an actual FN especially factoring in the third magazine.

So is the lowered pricing a reaponse to the Ruger or just distributors getting rid of old unsold stock?

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Having been involved with 5.7 for 11 years now, the Five Seven, PS90, and 5.7 ammo have a cyclical price.

FN imports the Five Seven and PS90 in batches from Belgium.

When batches first arrive, prices are low; typically $900-1100 for FsN, $1100-$1300 for the PS90. As availability starts to dry up, we see both guns rise in price ($1200-$1300; $1300-1500) until the next batch arrives.

Similar cycle happens with SS197 ammo, which Fiocchi seems to make in batches as well. When the batch drops, price is a consistent $0.35-$0.37. When supply is low, we see prices edge up to $0.45-$0.5.

A quick perusal of Gunbroker and Midwest GunWorks (my two most reliable sources for cheap 5.7) show that we are currently in a 'batch drought' for SS197, with next to none left in stock. Which is unfortunate vis a vis Ruger releasing their 57 right now.

[farscott]

Grabagun has the Ruger-57 for $650, so the pricing is starting to get to the mass market tipping point.

[zaitcev]

I have to say though, people wishing for 7.62 Tokarev have no imaginations. They bother if 7.5FK is available? It's the same thing only better!

Sadly with Ruger going into 5.7, we need someone like S&W making a 7.5 gun for us now.

[ragnar_d]

The more I look at this one, the more I want to buy two of them. One to tear into and have for my reference collection, another to mess around with. If a suppressor ready model or accessories comes out

One thing I'm thinking of on this . . . it could be a precursor to a PMR-30 competitor. Not too far of a stretch to go to .22WMR from 5.7x28. Just thinking out loud.


Should have spent their energy coming up with P365 competitor!
I'd say just about everyone in the industry is trying to work up a P365 competitor.


How hard would it have been to build the thing to take Glock sights?
I've said that more than once about several guns . . . and know a couple engineers/designers that want to put Glock sights on every gun they work on.

[Tokarev]

I've said that more than once about several guns . . . and know a couple engineers/designers that want to put Glock sights on every gun they work on.

It would not have to be Glock sights. SIG sights would have been fine too. As would true Novak sight cuts front and rear.

The gun does use Novak cuts but the rear dovetail sits father back so a Novak 1911 sight would overhang the rear of the slide.





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[Tokarev]

Honestly probably 90% of the people who buy this gun won't care one way or another what sights are on it. But the other 10% will now have to wait for an aftermarket option--if one comes--or have something made or modified.

Would it really have been additional cost/effort to machine the slide for existing sights?


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[Tokarev]

https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/gearscout/irons/2020/01/02/could-rugers-new-pistol-make-the-high-velocity-57-round-more-popular/

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[O4L]

https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/gearscout/irons/2020/01/02/could-rugers-new-pistol-make-the-high-velocity-57-round-more-popular/

Sent from my SM-G930P using TapatalkTaken from that article...

$600 Ruger 57

https://dkfirearms.com/product/ruger-57-5-7x28mm-semi-auto-pistol/

[fatdog]

Ruger would probably do well if they also introduced a version of the PC9 for this cartridge that took the same mags as the pistol....I think it would have wide appeal to the people who are going to buy the pistol.

[Tokarev]

Ruger would probably do well if they also introduced a version of the PC9 for this cartridge that took the same mags as the pistol....I think it would have wide appeal to the people who are going to buy the pistol.I can't imagine Ruger NOT doing a 5.7 carbine of some type. Unless the pistol just totally tanks.

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[zaitcev]

I can't imagine Ruger NOT doing a 5.7 carbine of some type. Unless the pistol just totally tanks.
Or maybe even then. Remember that Ruger resurrected SR-series just because PC Carbine needed a magazine in .40, and that was their only gun (there's no Security-40 nor RAP in .40).

[Nightvisionary]

Honestly probably 90% of the people who buy this gun won't care one way or another what sights are on it. But the other 10% will now have to wait for an aftermarket option--if one comes--or have something made or modified.

Would it really have been additional cost/effort to machine the slide for existing sights?


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It's a Gen 1 version so who knows what updates and changes Ruger might make if the 57 is successful. The LC9 started out as a hammer fired pistol. They now have the LC9S (Striker fired), EC9s, LC380 and a LCP II. The PC carbine and Mini-14 have all undergone multiple updates as well.

[Tokarev]

If the gun succeeds it will naturally spur a few variants.

As I think I've mentioned; ammo price and availability will be the gun's downfall. If Ruger can convince Hornady or similar (and Hornady or similar can figure out FN's secret sauce case coating) to make ammo they should be all set.

There will be a small part of the market that wants threaded barrels, suppressor sights, red dot mounting options, etc. But even the average joe will want cheap and available ammo.

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[spyderco monkey]

If the gun succeeds it will naturally spur a few variants.

As I think I've mentioned; ammo price and availability will be the gun's downfall. If Ruger can convince Hornady or similar (and Hornady or similar can figure out FN's secret sauce case coating) to make ammo they should be all set.

There will be a small part of the market that wants threaded barrels, suppressor sights, red dot mounting options, etc. But even the average joe will want cheap and available ammo.

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I agree, brass availability is ultimately the make or break factor for 5.7 succeeding. With an alternate source of brass, other companies can start loading 5.7 target ammo.

And companies like Underwood and Buffalo Bore can work on developing high performance offerings, similar to the loads currently offered by Elite / Vanguard/ R&R.

One company that could be a promising option for brass is Shell Shock, maker of these innovative hybrid aluminum / steel cases. The base is aluminum, while the body is a thin wall stainless steel:

https://americanhandgunner.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/AH-MJ17-LOAD-1B.jpg

A couple advantages:
-Shell shock cases are cheaper then brass
-They are rated for 65-70kpsi - ideal for the higher end 5.7 loads / increased safety margin
-The thin wall case offers slightly higher case capacity

[Nightvisionary]

I haven't seen TFB video review posted here yet. Im sold. 10 inch drop at 200 yards with FN ammo, that thing is a laser.



https://youtu.be/cFNyNvlWNh4

[Velo Dog]

10 inch drop at 200 yards with FN ammo, that thing is a laser.

Are you thinking of this chart? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FN_57_ballistics.gif

The 5.7x28mm is a flat shooting pistol cartridge, but the bullet drop from an iron-sighted handgun will likely be 2-3 times greater. Still pretty good, though.

[Nightvisionary]

Are you thinking of this chart? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FN_57_ballistics.gif

The 5.7x28mm is a flat shooting pistol cartridge, but the bullet drop from an iron-sighted handgun will likely be 2-3 times greater. Still pretty good, though.

Nope, all those are the PC super neutered eunich loads FN came out with when the PS90/5.7 was originally released to the public. It's what gave some the impression that the 5.7 is a centerfire 22 Magnum. I got these numbers directly from the article linked on page 8 of this thread. In that test they are using currently available S198LF which has a velocity similar to that of the original S190 FN 5.7 load.


https://www.realguns.com/articles/1159.htm

[spyderco monkey]

Are you thinking of this chart? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FN_57_ballistics.gif

The 5.7x28mm is a flat shooting pistol cartridge, but the bullet drop from an iron-sighted handgun will likely be 2-3 times greater. Still pretty good, though.

Here's the chart for factory blue tip SS197 40gr VMAX from the Five Seven / Ruger 57, zero'd at 25yd:

5.7 chart:
https://i.ibb.co/FgS3Hq2/Screen-Shot-2020-01-06-at-6-41-42-PM.png

9mm NATO chart:
https://i.ibb.co/7rL3Jhp/Screen-Shot-2020-01-06-at-6-46-59-PM.png

[Velo Dog]

https://www.realguns.com/articles/1159.htm[/url]

Thanks for the clarification - 27 grain bullet @ 2159 fps and a red dot sight.

The ballistic coefficient must be very low for that bullet to only have .22 Short energy at 200 yards.

G1 ballistic coefficient of .101 would equate to 24.5 inches of wind drift at 200 yards in 10 mph wind.
https://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics-calculator

[spyderco monkey]

Thanks for the clarification - 27 grain bullet @ 2159 fps and a red dot sight.

The ballistic coefficient must be very low for that bullet to only have .22 Short energy at 200 yards.
https://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics-calculator

The aerodynamic form factor of the SS198 projectile is actually pretty good; it's a 0.815" long OTM with a good shape and boat tail.

The reason retained energy is low at 200yd is that the projectile only weighs 27gr, as its an aluminum core. So at 1000fps, a 27gr projectile only has 60 ft/lbs of energy.

In general, I view the 27gr as attractive for close range (5-50yd) due to the high velocity effects.

But for the longer range, 40gr is more advantageous; SS197 at 200yd is 40gr @ 1175fps, equivalent to a .22lr CCI Mini Mag from a 10/22 at the muzzle. Not setting the world afire, but nothing to sneeze at either for a 200yd handgun, especially when the drop is factored in.

[Nightvisionary]

Thanks for the clarification - 27 grain bullet @ 2159 fps and a red dot sight.

The ballistic coefficient must be very low for that bullet to only have .22 Short energy at 200 yards.

G1 ballistic coefficient of .101 would equate to 24.5 inches of wind drift at 200 yards in 10 mph wind.
https://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics-calculator


The aerodynamic form factor of the SS198 projectile is actually pretty good; it's a 0.815" long OTM with a good shape and boat tail.

The reason retained energy is low at 200yd is that the projectile only weighs 27gr, as its an aluminum core. So at 1000fps, a 27gr projectile only has 60 ft/lbs of energy.

In general, I view the 27gr as attractive for close range (5-50yd) due to the high velocity effects.

But for the longer range, 40gr is more advantageous; SS197 at 200yd is 40gr @ 1175fps, equivalent to a .22lr CCI Mini Mag from a 10/22 at the muzzle. Not setting the world afire, but nothing to sneeze at either for a 200yd handgun, especially when the drop is factored in.

Not bad for a pistol round. Just being able to put holes in a target at that range with almost a point blank zero is impressive even if it doesn't have much energy left.

[Tokarev]

What kind of penetration does the 27gr bullet have?

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[farscott]

I agree, brass availability is ultimately the make or break factor for 5.7 succeeding. With an alternate source of brass, other companies can start loading 5.7 target ammo.

And companies like Underwood and Buffalo Bore can work on developing high performance offerings, similar to the loads currently offered by Elite / Vanguard/ R&R.

One company that could be a promising option for brass is Shell Shock, maker of these innovative hybrid aluminum / steel cases. The base is aluminum, while the body is a thin wall stainless steel:

https://americanhandgunner.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/AH-MJ17-LOAD-1B.jpg

A couple advantages:
-Shell shock cases are cheaper then brass
-They are rated for 65-70kpsi - ideal for the higher end 5.7 loads / increased safety margin
-The thin wall case offers slightly higher case capacity

The case design is interesting. I do wonder if the issue of bimetalic corrosion was addressed as some stainless steels react poorly when in contact with aluminum. I assume it was as the bases are nickel-plated aluminum alloy while the body is a stainless steel. I am going to try some of the 9x19 cases in my Grand Power X-Calibur set up for USPSA Production.

[spyderco monkey]

What kind of penetration does the 27gr bullet have?

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The 27gr typically gets 9-10" penetration, while completing one large, nasty yaw cycle. Its essentially a micro 5.45x39.

Here it is in the tougher, 20% ballistic gel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA6wf41ze9U

Due to its aluminum core, its very penetrative, capable of going through a surprisingly thick chunk of bulletproof glass:
https://youtu.be/_teY8vwwXvA?t=50

All in all its a mixed bag. Gel penetration is low, but is also displays the most rifle like velocity, tumbling, and barrier penetration.

It seems like from other tests, at 32gr and above is where we see 12" of penetration.

[twrol]

This is exciting!

I was always interested in the 5.7, but high price tag, reported crappy trigger, and high ammo cost has always made it nothing more than justification for a .22tcm.

If this thing sells (or Ruger was smart enough to effect it preemptively) more manufacturer’s may get involved and bring the ammo cost down. If that happens, game on.

What do you suppose they follow this up with an AR-57 or a PC Carbine sharing 57 mags?

[Tokarev]

What do you suppose they follow this up with an AR-57 or a PC Carbine sharing 57 mags?

Anything is possible. I'd say chances are good that some type of rifle will be produced.



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[Tokarev]

The 27gr typically gets 9-10" penetration, while completing one large, nasty yaw cycle. Its essentially a micro 5.45x39.

Here it is in the tougher, 20% ballistic gel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA6wf41ze9U

Due to its aluminum core, its very penetrative, capable of going through a surprisingly thick chunk of bulletproof glass:
https://youtu.be/_teY8vwwXvA?t=50

All in all its a mixed bag. Gel penetration is low, but is also displays the most rifle like velocity, tumbling, and barrier penetration.

It seems like from other tests, at 32gr and above is where we see 12" of penetration.I'll have to see if I can find it. I read a fairly recent test with the 27gr stuff. IIRC the bullet broke apart almost immediately and had pretty shallow penetration.

This stuff makes me curious about the 5.7 pistol as a whole. I may order up some Armscor 40gr JHP bullets to try in gel as well as some of the new Gold Dot when it becomes available.

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[zaitcev]

What do you suppose they follow this up with an AR-57 or a PC Carbine sharing 57 mags?
The "AR57" moniker is usually applied to the AR that uses the P90 magazines and ejects down the empy magazine well (although some smart people used a hollowed-out AR magazine as a brass catcher). We need to come up with a better name now for an AR that uses Ruger-57 magazines. Although I suppose we can make a distinction between the old AR57 and the new AR-57 with a dash.

[19852+]

This is exciting!

I was always interested in the 5.7, but high price tag, reported crappy trigger, and high ammo cost has always made it nothing more than justification for a .22tcm.

If this thing sells (or Ruger was smart enough to effect it preemptively) more manufacturer’s may get involved and bring the ammo cost down. If that happens, game on.

What do you suppose they follow this up with an AR-57 or a PC Carbine sharing 57 mags?

Maybe a single action army clone ??

[twrol]

The "AR57" moniker is usually applied to the AR that uses the P90 magazines and ejects down the empy magazine well (although some smart people used a hollowed-out AR magazine as a brass catcher). We need to come up with a better name now for an AR that uses Ruger-57 magazines. Although I suppose we can make a distinction between the old AR57 and the new AR-57 with a dash.

Yeah I know. Ruger forgot about other calibers when they named their budget AR line "556".

But hey, since you bring up P90's, Ruger is on a role kicking people in the junk and has not put out a bull pup in a while.

[jandbj]

I’d be interested in a charger type pistol using these mags with the ability to accept a brace.

[Nightvisionary]

What kind of penetration does the 27gr bullet have?

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Not ideal at around 9 or 10 inches but very similar to Hornadys 55 grain 223 TAP round.

[spyderco monkey]

I'll have to see if I can find it. I read a fairly recent test with the 27gr stuff. IIRC the bullet broke apart almost immediately and had pretty shallow penetration.

This stuff makes me curious about the 5.7 pistol as a whole. I may order up some Armscor 40gr JHP bullets to try in gel as well as some of the new Gold Dot when it becomes available.

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Here's some good loading data on several projectiles from FiveSeven forum:
https://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9658&sid=14abe0f932a3e64331719689dddc60cf

https://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=10996

Max load puts a 40gr VMAX in the 1950-2000fps range, in line with Elite's Protector load. Per Elite, the Nosler 40gr tipped projectile is even better, performing more consistently at 5.7 velocities.

Here is probably the best gel test of the Protector (40gr vmax @ 1950):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX-AEc4-A5U

That data would also seem relevant with using the 40gr TCM projectile.

Another popular projectile are the 30 and 36gr Barnes Varmint grenade. As I recall, at 5.7 velocity they dont fragment, but rather tumble similar to the 27gr SS198 projectile, but with better penetration:
https://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=421&hilit=varmint+grenade

In general, for any reloading, the FiveSeven forum is the place to look for info. Between Jay from Elite and the regulars over there, they probably have more knowledge of the nuances of 5.7x28 then FN does.

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/kh_WxeOAcxo

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[Nightvisionary]

https://youtu.be/g0RC4_8Nt60

Test Results Summary

Chronograph Data
FPS Measurements (Average of 5 shots)
.................Weight...............Five-seveN.................AR57 12"
SS197........40gr....................1709......... ................1969
ProtecTOR...40gr....................1957.......... ...............2421
S5 .............32gr....................2101......... ................2464
S4M ...........28gr....................2414........... ..............2917
CCI .22wmr40gr 1343

Ft-Lb Measurements (Average of 5 shots)
.................Weight...............Five-seveN.................AR57 12"
SS197 .......40gr....................259................ ............344
ProtecTOR ..40gr....................340..................... .......521
S5 .............32gr....................314.......... ..................431
S4M ...........28gr....................362............ ................529
CCI .22mr....40gr...................160

Ballistic Gelatin Block Results
Blocks were 6x8x10” 10% ballistic gelatin, placed lengthwise for 20” total gelatin depth. All shots were taken from a distance of 10'.

SS197 (FsN Pistol)
Shot #1: Fragmented early in the block, fragments penetrated the entire depth of the block and exited the back.

Shot #2: 14” penetration, core separated from jacket.

Shot #3: Fragmented early in the block, fragments penetrated to 18”

SS190 (FsN Pistol)
Shot #1: Penetrated to 15”, round remained intact. Large (2.5”) cavitation present from 3”-10”, apparently due to bullet tumbling.

Shot #2: Penetrated to 14.5” before exiting the bottom of the block, bouncing off the metal, and continuing downrange outside (under) the block). Similar wound channel to shot #1 prior to exiting the block.

Shot #3: Penetrated to 15”, similar wound channel to shot #1. All rounds remained intact.

Elite Ammunition S4M
Shot #1: Penetrated to 14”, fragmenting approximately 1” after entering the block and creating a large wound cavity with fragments present throughout the wound channel.

Shot #2: Penetrated to 14”, similar wound channel to shot #1.

Elite Ammunition ProtecTOR (FsN pistol)
Shot #1: Penetrated to 11”, extensive fragmentation, core separated from jacket at 7.5”, largest diameter of wound channel was approximately 2.5”.

Shot #2: Penetrated to 14”, similar wound channel to shot #1 (extensive fragmentation).

Shot #3: Penetrated to 14”, similar wound channel to shots #1 and #2.

Elite Ammunition S4M (FsN pistol) 4-layer denim
Shot #1: Penetrated to 11”, exhibited fragmentation (less than when fired into bare gelatin).

Shot #2 – Penetrated to 12.5”, similar fragmentation as shot #1, core separated from the jacket and exited the block.

Shot #3 – Penetrated to 15”, exited the top of the block, bounced off the denim laying along the top, recovered in this position.

Elite Ammunition S5
Shot #1: Penetrated to 16”, no fragmentation and almost no deformation.

Shot #2 – Penetrated to 16”, same as above

Shot #3 – Penetrated to 18”, same as above

CCI .22WMR 40gr HP
These rounds were fired into a single 10" block. Both rounds penetrated the length of the block and created a wound channel not much larger than the bullet's diameter.
 
Guns used in this video:
FN Five-seveN
57Center AR57
FN PS90
Kel-Tec PMR-30

Ammunition Used:
Elite Ammunition ProtecTOR
Elite Ammunition S5
Elite Ammunition S4M
SS197
SS190
CCI Maxi Mag .22WMR HO

[twrol]

I’d be interested in a charger type pistol using these mags with the ability to accept a brace.

+1

Hope someone at Ruger is reading this.

[coldcase1984]

Please wake me up when it is 7.62x25 Tokarev.
Yahtzee!

Late to this thread,but:

As a Boomer who has 40 acres sans mule I believe we need more longuns and handguns available in both 5.7 FN and 7.62 Tok. Both would be perfect on pests up to coyotes to 150 yards (in carbines) and legal for deer in my state with expanding projectiles.

GLOCK is missing sales not producing little and large models in the Commie round. A G34- sized 7.62 or 5.7 with a good RDS would be ideal for tractor born ops.

Carbines and combo guns as well would sell to we witless, rustic deplorables. Gonna call Savage and urge them to bring out a Model 42 in 5.7 and 7.62.

Be maux bettah with a 20 ga. Tube, too!

PS: A Crimson Trace light/Green Laser combo on the Ruger 57 would be better than RDS for home defense...Or the Wal-Mart parking lot!

[Tokarev]

Yahtzee!

Late to this thread,but:

As a Boomer who has 40 acres sans mule I believe we need more longuns and handguns available in both 5.7 FN and 7.62 Tok. Both would be perfect on pests up to coyotes to 150 yards (in carbines) and legal for deer in my state with expanding projectiles.

GLOCK is missing sales not producing little and large models in the Commie round. A G34- sized 7.62 or 5.7 with a good RDS would be ideal for tractor born ops.

Carbines and combo guns as well would sell to we witless, rustic deplorables. Gonna call Savage and urge them to bring out a Model 42 in 5.7 and 7.62.

Be maux bettah with a 20 ga. Tube, too!

PS: A Crimson Trace light/Green Laser combo on the Ruger 57 would be better than RDS for home defense...Or the Wal-Mart parking lot!Problem with 7.62x25 (and pistols that are chambered for it) is lack of supply.

Reason people liked these guns was cheap to purchase and cheap to shoot. But gone are the days of stupidly cheap CZ52s and Chinese TT33s. Ammo that used to be almost free when bought by the spam can is long gone.

I also wonder if the Ruger would hold up in anything other than 5.7. Being a blowback gun could it be made to work in 7.62? Surely it would need more than a heavier slide and stiffer recoil spring. And if it could be made to work would the increased slide mass turn the gun off to potential consumers?

Blowback 7.62 might have been fine in PPS43s and PPSh41s but nobody made an unlocked breach handgun that I'm aware of. Maybe there's a reason for that.

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[spyderco monkey]

Problem with 7.62x25 (and pistols that are chambered for it) is lack of supply.

Reason people liked these guns was cheap to purchase and cheap to shoot. But gone are the days of stupidly cheap CZ52s and Chinese TT33s. Ammo that used to be almost free when bought by the spam can is long gone.

I also wonder if the Ruger would hold up in anything other than 5.7. Being a blowback gun could it be made to work in 7.62? Surely it would need more than a heavier slide and stiffer recoil spring. And if it could be made to work would the increased slide mass turn the gun off to potential consumers?

Blowback 7.62 might have been fine in PPS43s and PPSh41s but nobody made an unlocked breach handgun that I'm aware of. Maybe there's a reason for that.

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Ideal fantasy pistol for me - "The Zapper."

-Uses Witness .38 Supper magazines
-Can be converted into 9mm/ 9x23 winchester / .22 TCM / .30 Luger +p+ with just a barrel change
-Optics ready for red dot
-Polymer frame, 5" barrel

--> Allows the user to experiment with fun, high velocity calibers, while also being able to fall back on cheap and plentiful 9x19. Since the gun is rated for 9x23 winchester, can also fire 9mm Major.

In terms of 7.62x25, a user on Glock Forums has figured out that +p+ .30 Luger is able to hit x25 velocities, while being drop in on 9x19 pistols:

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/17l-varmint-edition-aka-30-luger.1696832/

http://forums.delphiforums.com/dir-docs/autogun/1C9C11BA-225D-463B-8EF5-29AE3F3E84F8/Screen_Shot_2020-01-01_at_2.32.52_AM.png

https://americanhandgunner.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/AHND17-LOAD-3.jpg

[Kilibreaux]

Delayed Blowback versus Blowback:

In a Blowback pistol action, the barrel is generally fixed to the frame. When fired, the bullet travels down the barrel and the slide, or bolt begins to open as soon as energy imparted to it has risen high enough to overcome resting inertia. There is no interaction between slide and barrel. Frictional interface between bore and bullet have no connection to slide timing. Because there is no mechanism locking slide and barrel together, slide or bolt mass must be considerably more to have adequate resting inertia to resist opening until bore pressure has begun to drop.

In a Delayed Blowback pistol action, the barrel is generally attached to the frame via some form of link, cam, bevel, or stud that allows a degree of barrel movement to the rear. The barrel is also designed with some form of lock that interfaces with the slide of the pistol, such as the locking bands on a 1911 barrel that fit into mating recesses inside the slide, or the large, single locking "lug" on the top of a Glock barrel that fits into a mated opening in the slide's ejection port. When fired, the bullet travels down the barrel, "pushing" the barrel forward with it due to bore friction. As long as acceleration is sustained by the bullet in the bore, the action will remained locked. Even though chamber pressure is pushing the breech face to the rear, the breech, being locked to the slide, cannot move back far enough to unlock the action until the acceleration force on the bullet has dropped, or the bullet has left the barrel. Upon barrel exit, with the bullet no longer pushing the barrel forward, energy imparted into the combined slide/barrel mass pushes it to the rear. At some distance, the barrel unlocks from the slide by means of a cam, link, etc., and the slide separates from the barrel, and begins to move independently as the barrel stops. When the slide returns, the breech face pushes the barrel forward, actuating the mechanical locking system between the two.

Rifles and carbines can work with a simple blow back system because the added mass of a "free cycling bolt" adds proportionately little to the overall weight of the gun system. With handguns, blow back systems are generally limited to small handguns with short barrels where added slide mass is reasonable. By the time caliber gets to 9mm, a blow back system starts to become unwieldy and unbalanced with an overly heavy slide. The Hi-Point line of pistols are an excellent example of large-bore, blow back action pistols that have large, blocky slides to provide enough mass to hold the breech closed during the highest pressure phase of the cartridge.

Delayed blow back systems can be made lighter and safer because the action is locked closed during the high pressure phase of the cartridge and are preferred for lightweight handguns. If the FiveseveN handgun or Ruger 57 used a blow back system, the weight of the bolt or slide alone would equal the overall weight of the pistol. In order for these guns to be light, they must use some form of breech locking system - and they do. The following is an excerpt from Wikipedia (which is sufficient for this topic):

In 1993, Jean-Louis Gathoye of FN filed a United States patent application for a delayed blowback operating system intended for the Five-seven pistol, and U.S. Patent 5,347,912 ("Elements for decelerating the recoil of the moving parts of a fire arm") was received the following year.[/SIZE]

The locking system used in the Ruger 57 is identical in design to the one used in the FiveseveN. In the photos posted by Tokarev the locking lever can be seen retracted in the frame. Tokarev incorrectly states "there is no cam or locking block on the barrel" when in fact you can see it in the photos. The bottom lug of the barrel is the "barrel lug" and the lever seen in the slide with the "wings" on either side are the "locking lugs" that index into small recesses in the underside of the slide's side walls. In order to UNLOCK, the barrel MUST move rearward in order to allow the lock lever to swing down by action of rotating around a base pin mounted in the frame. When fully "locked" the bottom lug on the barrel holds the lock lever UP with it's twin locking lugs indexed into the slide recesses - steel-2-steel lockup. The action cycles very fast, and due to the small bore and bottleneck cartridge, chamber pressure is still high enough to cause the case shoulder to "unroll" forward as the case head is both pushing and being pulled from the chamber by the extractor. The locking system is inline with no tilting or rotating of the barrel and instead of the locking system being between barrel and slide, it is between barrel and lock lever, and between lock lever and slide.

How doesn't one "know" if a pistol's action is blow back or delayed blow back? Place a dowel in the chamber that extends out the muzzle, then, grasping the dowel at the front, and the slide, pull in opposite directions. With a blow back action the slide will retract in opposition to the barrel being pulled or held fixed.
Now, do the same with a delayed blowback action. gripping only the dowel sticking out of the barrel, and the slide at the other end, pull in opposite directions. Do NOT hold the frame, receiver, or grip while doing this! The slide and barrel will NOT separate and will in fact remain firmly locked together no matter how hard you pull in opposite directions! This is because the slide cannot separate from the barrel unless the barrel is allowed to move back as well. This is where the DELAY comes in.

It's important for users to understand that the action of a Ruger 57 is indeed LOCKED during firing so that some intrepid tinkerer doesn't start wondering what those weird looking parts are, and decides to remove them because somebody on the internet tells him they aren't needed and he ends up doing an impression of a Unicorn!

[Kilibreaux]

So we finally have a sub $700 home defense handgun with velocities beyond 2000 FPS that can provide useful cavitation terminal effects. What's not to like?

Nothing is not to like for sure!

I own three FiveseveNs and hope to find a way to add a Ruger 57 or three to my collection!

[Kilibreaux]

I think I saw that but Im pretty sure the guy was wearing Level III body armor.

If the P90 with SS190 ammo didn't penetrate a TL3A vest, no 9mm, 38, 45, 357, or 10mm would have either! This is pure internet mythology.

[Kilibreaux]

I can’t find it, but out there on the internets is a video of a cop with a p90 putting a couple of bursts into a guy’s torso and after the end of the second burst the shootee basically says something along the lines of “ok ok please stop shooting me” without much of a physical reaction at all.

Too bad "that guy" wasn't at Ft. Hood when Hassan murdered 13 and wounded 32 using an "ineffective" FiveseveN! Where are these super humans when you need them?!

[Tokarev]

The locking system used in the Ruger 57 is identical in design to the one used in the FiveseveN. In the photos posted by Tokarev the locking lever can be seen retracted in the frame. Tokarev incorrectly states "there is no cam or locking block on the barrel" when in fact you can see it in the photos. The bottom lug of the barrel is the "barrel lug" and the lever seen in the slide with the "wings" on either side are the "locking lugs" that index into small recesses in the underside of the slide's side walls. In order to UNLOCK, the barrel MUST move rearward in order to allow the lock lever to swing down by action of rotating around a base pin mounted in the frame.

I stand by my description of the Ruger and how it operates. There is no cam nor locking lug on the barrel nor does it lock into the slide as is commonly referred to as the Browning system.

[Tokarev]

Maybe Diamonback will produce a version that takes Ruger clips

:p


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwy9nK16ytc&list=PLm5Moc1EmjtOrE0bG843NDYzTvCP57Cd9

[zaitcev]

I stand by my description of the Ruger and how it operates. There is no cam nor locking lug on the barrel nor does it lock into the slide as is commonly referred to as the Browning system.
Although there's no cam on it, a locking lug is of course present on barrels of FiveSeveN and Ruger-57. The cam surface is on the lever in the slide.

Anyone who faults you for the faithful transmission of Ruger's corporate communication ought to apologize. That said, it's far from the first time the manufacturer posts something incorrect or misleading in regards to the operation of their firearm. Look no further than LWRC's SMG-45, which they describe as "short-recoil delayed blowback". No lesser authority than Ian MacCollum described Benelli B76 as intertial locking system -- according to the wording of the actual patent, no less -- when in reality it is a delayed blowback.

People discussing the FN and Ruger ought to ask themselves: what does the lever with cam surfaces actually does in the frame of the pistol? Why is it included in the design?

[Tokarev]

Although there's no cam, a locking lug is of course present on barrels of FiveSeveN and Ruger-57.

People discussing the FN and Ruger ought to ask themselves: what does the lever with cam surfaces actually does in the frame of the pistol? Why is it included in the design?

I note in my earlier pics/posts that there's a toggle in the frame.

Again; I am referring to the traditional recoil operating system with regard to a barrel cam and/or locking lugs.

Also, to clarify, I'm not repeating any of Ruger's official corporate communication or company line etc. Ruger loaned me the gun because they are excited about it and wanted me to see it. Nothing more. I was (still am) under no obligation to post pics or anything else about the gun as part of the loan.

[5pins]

Speer Gold Dot 5.7.

47610

[ccmdfd]

Speer Gold Dot 5.7.

47610

Did they put out any specs on performance?

All I've been able to find online so far is very generic marketing type material.

[Tokarev]

Did they put out any specs on performance?

All I've been able to find online so far is very generic marketing type material.You saw the initial velocity and accuracy stats as part of the American Rifleman review of the R57?

From what I've read, the ammo should be shipping in March. This reminds me that I need to buy some more gel.

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[Tod-13]

Did they put out any specs on performance?

All I've been able to find online so far is very generic marketing type material.

AR article showed the Gold Dot 1790 FPS at 15'. Scroll to the end:
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/12/31/tested-ruger-57-pistol/

No gel tests that I've found.

[ccmdfd]

AR article showed the Gold Dot 1790 FPS at 15'. Scroll to the end:
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/12/31/tested-ruger-57-pistol/

No gel tests that I've found.

Yeah it's the gel tests I'm interested in seeing. Figured they'd have that out since the above picture shows what recovered bullets look like

cc

[spyderco monkey]

Talked to a Speer guy at SHOT today.

-They did not know if they are using FN brass, or their own brass, and if the brass is lacquered

-They confirmed that the Gold Dot does not work in the PS90 magazine. He believes its something to do with the profile of the bullet, which is shorter and stubbier then a regular 5.7 Spitzer. Similar to how some .300 blk bullets won't work in a 5.56 mag.

-5.7 Gold Dot does work in Ruger, FN Five Seven, CMMG Banshee, and Diamondback.

-Said the 5.7 Gold Dot makes it around 15" in Ballistic Gel

https://i.ibb.co/dGXhNPz/Speer-5-7-Gold-Dot.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/n83dTRb/gold-dot-5-7-expansion.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/8r45fx9/Speer-Gold-Dot-brochure.jpg

[spyderco monkey]

Not the Ruger, but there was a very nice aftermarket red dot mount for the FN MK2 Five Seven (alas, I have the MK1.)

https://i.ibb.co/74WCWC2/FN-five-seven-red-dot-mount.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/0MyKJcz/Five-Seven-Red-Dot.jpg

[MandoWookie]

Talked to a Speer guy at SHOT today.



-They confirmed that the Gold Dot does not work in the PS90 magazine.

Well, darn.

https://images.app.goo.gl/3MS7XjubjWjVQ1kS9

[0ddl0t]

Hearing Ruger "fifty-seven" sounds funny:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH0Xhh6XOI0

[Tokarev]

Hearing Ruger "fifty-seven" sounds funny:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH0Xhh6XOI0I think Ruger's preference is that the pistol be called the "five seven." The other way sounds too much like a condiment.

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[0ddl0t]

I think Ruger's preference is that the pistol be called the "five seven." The other way sounds too much like a condiment.


I'm sure they would, but they can't officially call it the five seven without running afoul of FN's trademark...

[Tokarev]

So anyone jumping on the 5.7 bandwagon or has this new pistol already dropped into obscurity?

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[Sigfan26]

So anyone jumping on the 5.7 bandwagon or has this new pistol already dropped into obscurity?

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Still strong interest in my area. People continually ask for them. I have a list of folks wanting them.


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[Nightvisionary]

Is there any consensus yet on whether the Ruger chamber design requires lacquered cases? If not this might make reloading easier for experienced reloaders since it would eliminate the care that must be taken to preserve the coating and allow one to tumble cases in media.

[Tokarev]

Some info on the Speer offering and sort of a general state of affairs for the 5.7 cartridge:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2020/2/17/the-keefe-report-return-of-the-57x28-mm-fn-cartridge/

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[Stephanie B]

Even if I were interested in toting a centerfire .22 magnum, I live in a ban state. Carrying a gun that starts out half-empty isn't appealing.

So if the round expands well, it's going to expand to the diameter of a .32 or a .38 wadcutter?

For fun, I'll quote Ivan Chesnokov:

Main point of selling Belgian five seven pistol is extreme price of weapon and cartridge.

Belgian five seven is weapon of man who wears expensive Italian fascist suit of hand sewing, drive huge expensive Nazi Mercedes of a.m.g. shop, sail on massive yacht to Greek islands. I think you get picture. Belgian five seven is weapon that says is no such thing as concern of money.

For man without expensive suit, big black Mercedes, and massive yacht, Belgian five seven is for pretending of be rich like black gangster of American city with gold chains of low quality and jewels of colored glass. When you explain use of Belgian five seven pistol is only for shoot man with bullet vest with cartridge illegal to civilian, this man has nuclear rage. Whole identity of this man is spent in pretend pistol shows he is rich. Is very amuse.

For rest of world there is 9 millimeters of Luger which is same wound for cost less.

[Nightvisionary]

Even if I were interested in toting a centerfire .22 magnum, I live in a ban state. Carrying a gun that starts out half-empty isn't appealing.

So if the round expands well, it's going to expand to the diameter of a .32 or a .38 wadcutter?

For fun, I'll quote Ivan Chesnokov:

This thread, gun, and caliber is not for the poor or oppressed.

[Stephanie B]

This thread, gun, and caliber is not for the poor or oppressed.
So why not the .22 TCM?

[Stephanie B]

This thread, gun, and caliber is not for the poor or oppressed.

Or those possessing a modicum of good sense.

48860

[Danjojo]

5.7 is really only interesting to me with ballistic tip ammo as a lightweight, long range toy.

Gold Dot offering should be a hit for the handful of people wanting short range, shallow cavity, deep-ish penetration mini version of a duty round.

It will have a poor b.c. like similar hollow points. Looking at clothing and bare gel expansion, not likely to expand much if any past 40yds when velocity is already down in the 1500's. Maybe somebody's idea of a 22 hog round lol

Would be more successful if they put a tip on it to raise b.c. and help initiate expansion + make it soft enough to actually take advantage of being bonded. As is, it makes about as much sense as subsonic 9, 40, 45 being bonded.

[Nightvisionary]

So why not the .22 TCM?

Because the market has made it's choice, making the TCM the 41 Action Express of this particular cartridge battle.

[Nightvisionary]

Or those possessing a modicum of good sense.

48860

Why must we only like what you like?

[Stephanie B]

Why must we only like what you like?

You credit me with too much power.

Beyond that, snarking over Euro-pellet guns is a long-standing American tradition.

[Joe in PNG]

Plus, in realm of centerfire .22 mags, I suspect Stephanie, as a lady of good taste, would prefer a S&W 53.

[Nightvisionary]

Plus, in realm of centerfire .22 mags, I suspect Stephanie, as a lady of good taste, would prefer a S&W 53.

Yeah, the 53 should be New England legal. Connecticut is so small I don't think there is enough room to shoot the 5.7 so the 22 Jet with it's reduced velocity might be the more common sense choice.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I thought the 53 was a flop and didn't run because of the cartridge configuration isn't wheel gun friendly. Just stating the obvious. What about those reports that the Kel-tec 22 mag is so popular? The one I saw at matches couldn't get through a stage without a jam.

This daddy's 22 mag was an NAA mini - loudest damn gun and flash. Scared the crap out of me at the indoor range between the walls of lane. No, it wasn't a primary - it was a just because gun.

[Nightvisionary]

I thought the 53 was a flop and didn't run because of the cartridge configuration isn't wheel gun friendly. Just stating the obvious. What about those reports that the Kel-tec 22 mag is so popular? The one I saw at matches couldn't get through a stage without a jam.

This daddy's 22 mag was an NAA mini - loudest damn gun and flash. Scared the crap out of me at the indoor range between the walls of lane. No, it wasn't a primary - it was a just because gun.

Against my better judgement after my previous experience I have had a Kel-Tec PMR for a couple years now. I have done all the usual Kel Tec fluff and buff tricks, performed the magazine fix, tried every brand of ammo under the sun. It will occassionally get through a full magazine without a malfunction. It is fun to shoot and has a great trigger so I will probably never sell it. Maybe Stephanie B is right and I should just save my money and stick with the KelTec PMR. After all I kind of did the same thing when I purchased my 357 Colt Trooper when I already owned a Ruger 38 Special LCR. They are both the same caliber and make the same sized holes as 45 ACP FMJ when they expand. The 357 Magnum is really just an expensive 38 Special for guys with money to burn.

I had a NAA Black Widow 22 Mag for a while. I traded it but would definitely buy another.

[Joe in PNG]

There's an idea for Ruger- a revolver in 5.7.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Wouldn't that round in a revolver have the same problems as the Jet did? IIRC, the 17 mags screwed up in revolvers, also.

[Stephanie B]

Plus, in realm of centerfire .22 mags, I suspect Stephanie, as a lady of good taste, would prefer a S&W 53.
I've shot one. It's not a gun that I have any desire to own.

[Baldanders]

I've shot one. It's not a gun that I have any desire to own.

I must be drinking too much, 'cause Steph just said a classic Smith was shitty. I gotta tone down the "no students tomorrow due to weather" celebrating.

Seriously, that must have been a lame experience.

On the original topic, I doubt I will ever own a Ruger 57, but I am glad they exist. Someone here said "tractor gun," and I can see that, and a $1000+ pistol will never fill that niche. Plus, it opens up experimentation to a far bigger crowd and that's always a good thing.

Ruger continues to impress me as a consumer-driven business.

[Stephanie B]

I must be drinking too much, 'cause Steph just said a classic Smith was shitty. I gotta tone down the "no students tomorrow due to weather" celebrating.

Seriously, that must have been a lame experience.

The gun was nice, a quality old K frame. But the combination of a the gun and the cartridge sucked. The guy who owns the gun is a serious collector of Smiths. He believes that the epitome of S&Wrevolvers was in the post-war, pre-numbering era. But that doesn't stop him from owning nice guns, like a Model 57.

When I shot his gun, he had a can of lighter fluid that he used to ensure that the chambers and the cartridges didn't have any trace of oil on them. That didn't prevent the gun from locking up twice out of six shots fired.

Now the 57, that was a nice gun. I can see why people love them.

[Baldanders]

The gun was nice, a quality old K frame. But the combination of a the gun and the cartridge sucked. The guy who owns the gun is a serious collector of Smiths. He believes that the epitome of S&Wrevolvers was in the post-war, pre-numbering era. But that doesn't stop him from owning nice guns, like a Model 57.

When I shot his gun, he had a can of lighter fluid that he used to ensure that the chambers and the cartridges didn't have any trace of oil on them. That didn't prevent the gun from locking up twice out of six shots fired.

Now the 57, that was a nice gun. I can see why people love them.

I think I would find a well-built gun that has the issues the .22 Jet brings more frustrating than a POS with those issues.

Neat idea. There doesn't seem to be a way to make it work in a revolver.

I find that whole hypervelocity .22 idea in a pistol very interesting, but I am waiting for other enthusiasts to work out the issues. My friend's PMR-30 was much fun for the first 5 mags that feed flawlessly, then it went downhill fast.

Cheap plastic-cased 5.7×28 would be a game-changer for me.

Of course, my least shot handgun is a .22WMR Single-Six. (Inherited) It's a tackdriver, but so is my Model 17, and it's far cheaper to shoot. If I lived out west, I would probably use it more.

[Nightvisionary]

MAC first shots review with Ruger 57.



https://youtu.be/7pF10nFTNuo

[Tokarev]

So where are we now with these guns? They generated quite a bit of Internet buzz five or six months ago but I've seen pretty much zero as of late.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

[Rex G]

Well, finding 5.7x28 ammo is certainly a challenge, so that is one indicator that someone is using weapons chambered for it. When shipments are received by ammo dealers, the ammo sells out quickly.

My 5.7mm weapon is a PS90. I have yet to have eyes on a Ruger 57.

[fly out]

Ruger has announced a Pro model that deletes the thumb safety. Just is case the TS was the only thing deterring some of you...