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View Full Version : Is the "roll of quarters" trick actually a thing?



45dotACP
12-30-2019, 04:14 PM
So, having been living the apartment life for the last year, I often find myself getting lots of quarters for laundry day. It brought to my mind the (possibly) old wives tale of turning a basic jab into the Hammer of Thor by simply grasping a roll of quarters in it. So I've been kind of curious...Is this actually a force multiplier? Granted you actually have to have enough boxing chops to land a shot on someone, but does grasping a roll of quarters (or a small flashlight) in your hand confer some benefit into your musculature/bone structure that renders your hand less likely to break or more effective to punch with?

Mark D
12-30-2019, 08:08 PM
The term I've seen for this is "fist load". A long time ago when I was still interested in fisticuffs, I experimented with rolls of different sized coins. I felt like quarters were a bit big and made my hand vulnerable to injury. Dimes fit my medium-sized hand better. But I never used 'em in an altercation. The fist load also reduces your options a bit, making it harder to grab or use an open hand strike without first jettisoning the load. When I was working in bars and such, I found that accuracy increased my effectiveness more than anything else - effectively targeting the chin and jaw generally created the desired effect. But that was long ago, in a galaxy far far away.

Edited to add: Slightly off topic, but on the subject of accuracy - the several times that I was hit hard enough to assume a seated position, I caught the shot on the jaw. In some respects pugilism is a little like pistol craft - speed and power is great. but accuracy is extremely important.

Old Man Winter
12-31-2019, 08:34 AM
does grasping a roll of quarters (or a small flashlight) in your hand confer some benefit into your musculature/bone structure that renders your hand less likely to break or more effective to punch with?

Grasping a roll of quarters or similar will increase the risk of breaking your metacarpal bones. While making a fist, tucking the distal phalanx also increases risk of breaking your metacarpal bones. When a fist is formed correctly, the hand bones are very durable when striking hard targets.

Alpha Sierra
12-31-2019, 11:17 AM
I thought the roll of coins was something you put inside a small sack (like a heavy sock) to make a crude sap?

Rockey
12-31-2019, 02:01 PM
This is right up there with wasp spray, pushing keys between your fingers and other internet bullshido.

blues
12-31-2019, 03:08 PM
This is right up there with wasp spray, pushing keys between your fingers and other internet bullshido.

Frankly, in the highly unlikely event I had a roll of quarters in my hand at an opportune moment to use it defensively, I'd much rather spare my knuckles the wear and tear they don't need and use it to enhance a hammer fist strike.

JohnO
12-31-2019, 03:41 PM
When I was a kid I remember my dad giving me a taped over partial roll of nickles for the express purpose of knocking someones block off. This all came about when I was having some trouble getting picked on walking home from the bus stop. I do not recall ever putting the nickles to use.

Yute
01-01-2020, 02:30 AM
Always wondered if this was true. Fairbairn described something similar with a matchbox in his "All in Fighting" Manual.
https://i.imgur.com/aXSpeJy.png?1
https://i.imgur.com/TSDuVRh.png
https://i.imgur.com/wnp6ldi.png

SeriousStudent
01-01-2020, 12:00 PM
Grasping a roll of quarters or similar will increase the risk of breaking your metacarpal bones. While making a fist, tucking the distal phalanx also increases risk of breaking your metacarpal bones. When a fist is formed correctly, the hand bones are very durable when striking hard targets.

I can validate this from personal experience. I am thinking it's also why I have arthritis in both hands 40 years later. :(

SouthNarc
01-01-2020, 12:01 PM
Don't do that shit.

RevolverRob
01-01-2020, 12:29 PM
If you're going to carry something and throw punches with it in your hand...a properly fitted pair of knuckles seems like the vastly superior choice.

Warped Mindless
01-01-2020, 12:37 PM
Learning to throw a proper punch works better than these silly gimmicks.

Im not against improvised weapons but this "trick" is almost as silly as trying to use your car keys to become wolverine.

45dotACP
01-01-2020, 06:22 PM
It kinda sounded like gun counter derp. Yet another reason P-F stands out.

I have a slightly better BJJ base than striking so I could definitely improve my stand-up game. I think better accuracy and picking your shots are definitely good suggestions with knuckles as a no from me.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

Cecil Burch
01-02-2020, 12:44 AM
Making a proper fist is hard and takes practice because if you are a bit off, it will greatly weaken the punch and it will exponentially increase the risk of damage. Putting a roll of quarters inside the grip puts the fingers and knuckles in the same position that a poorly formed fist does. Not a smart thing

pooty
01-02-2020, 11:31 PM
-delete-

TDA
01-03-2020, 09:49 PM
An interesting read on the subject:

http://www.donrearic.com/fistload.html

Worth the read just for the old martial arts magazine ads.

blues
01-03-2020, 09:55 PM
An interesting read on the subject:

http://www.donrearic.com/fistload.html

Worth the read just for the old martial arts magazine ads.

I used to correspond with him close to twenty years ago...primarily about knives. He's an "interesting" fella.

Maple Syrup Actual
01-03-2020, 11:52 PM
Rearic always struck me as one of the last of the "untested theories published by Paladin Press" types.

Although I did work with a guy who had his orbital socket smashed, allegedly by a guy holding a roll of quarters. I wasn't working that night so I can't attest to the quarters but you don't often see a single punch smash a guy's eye socket like that, and the other bouncer said it was a single sucker punch that did it, by a guy with a roll of quarters.

I don't think they caught him, though, so it's also entirely possible they decided "roll of quarters" in order to salvage the guy's pride, consciously or unconsciously. They had to screw his skull back together, or that's how the surgery was described to me anyway, and he had a permanent squint on one side afterwards. He told me the doctor had thought it was a pool cue hit.

But I wasn't there for the hit, or the hospital trip, or any of that. I got the story from the other bouncer the next night and more details from the punchee a few weeks later when he came back to work. At the time I didn't think to question how they knew about the quarters, I just assumed they were giving me the story as it happened. And, come to think of it, I don't even know if the second guy was at the door or on the floor in the bar, so I don't even know if he saw the hit.

Duelist
01-04-2020, 01:19 AM
Rearic always struck me as one of the last of the "untested theories published by Paladin Press" types.

Although I did work with a guy who had his orbital socket smashed, allegedly by a guy holding a roll of quarters. I wasn't working that night so I can't attest to the quarters but you don't often see a single punch smash a guy's eye socket like that, and the other bouncer said it was a single sucker punch that did it, by a guy with a roll of quarters.

I don't think they caught him, though, so it's also entirely possible they decided "roll of quarters" in order to salvage the guy's pride, consciously or unconsciously. They had to screw his skull back together, or that's how the surgery was described to me anyway, and he had a permanent squint on one side afterwards. He told me the doctor had thought it was a pool cue hit.

But I wasn't there for the hit, or the hospital trip, or any of that. I got the story from the other bouncer the next night and more details from the punchee a few weeks later when he came back to work. At the time I didn't think to question how they knew about the quarters, I just assumed they were giving me the story as it happened. And, come to think of it, I don't even know if the second guy was at the door or on the floor in the bar, so I don't even know if he saw the hit.

I used to work at a mental hospital. Guy I worked with got his orbital smashed by a single sucker punch, and there was no roll of quarters or anything else but a fist involved. Docs had to put the eye back in when they put his face back together.

He did not return to work.

Maple Syrup Actual
01-04-2020, 01:41 AM
Okay, well, there you go. They could easily have concluded "must have been a weapon because no punch would lay me out like that" and just inferred, then reassured each other that the roll of quarters was there. I can't see I have seen a lot of eye sockets broken by fists but I have no doubt it could be done.

And they must not have caught the guy because I'm sure I would remember that story because they would have beat him half to death, at least.

Sidebar: about a year later, the other bouncer from that story really picked a fight with the wrong guy one night and beat him up pretty badly, kind of over nothing. The guy came back later, just after close, head looking like an enormous bloody potato. He himself was not in condition to do much, but he brought a few bikers and they crowbarred the door off the frame, came in, and applied the same crowbar to the bouncer. He did not come back to work, ever, as far as I know.

Vic, the guy who'd had his orbital broken, was relatively lucky, I thought at least, because the strike had clearly come like a hook, like with a vertical fist from the side. So the whole structure did not come apart, it was more like cracks throughout the assembly. I believe he was back at work that same summer, althought this is fifteen years ago so I may have the timeline kind of wrong.

Ed L
01-04-2020, 03:17 AM
What about the stinger, which is like a pushdagger for punching?

blues
01-04-2020, 09:20 AM
What about the stinger, which is like a pushdagger for punching?

Looks like a dick or an IUD. I'd run away upon its presentation...hey, you don't know where they've been. ;)

Personally, I think most things like that are likely to make the gendarmes or the jury think one was out looking for trouble...and what is the likelihood of being able to get it into proper position in time? I think it might hurt it if rotated in one's grip but I haven't worked with one to comment from experience.

GAP
01-04-2020, 02:00 PM
No and Iíll tell you what wonít break and hits many times harder than a roll of quarters or plastic penis; an elbow.

QuickStrike
01-05-2020, 01:15 PM
Iíd imagine the roll of quarters to boost your punching power a bit. More weight on the striking end helps that, a momentum thing.

Dunno if Iíd use it and risk the increased chance of breaking hand bones though...

Joe Mac
01-05-2020, 02:20 PM
I saw an old partner of mine load his fist with a Streamlight Stinger and use it to fine effect on multiple occasions; it worked well for him. I never tried it, as I usually had a larger flashlight or an ironwood baton in my hand when things got sporty.

Cecil Burch
01-06-2020, 10:42 AM
What about the stinger, which is like a pushdagger for punching?

Note in the picture how open and unsupported each finger is.

IF you can hit perfectly on a precise target, and IF the only thing that makes contact is the tip of the stinger, it will work okay.

The problem is that those are really big ifs, and if the universe does not line up perfectly and allow the perfect hit, your hands are in a perfect position for serious damage.

The other issue with the stinger is how do you carry it? If you carry it concealed, how do you get to it quickly and functionally deploy it? And if you carry it on your keychain (one of the ways they tell you to) it is bulky and pretty obvious. It is also obviously only a fighting implement (regardless of how the manufacturer tries to sell it as "tell them it is a massage tool :rolleyes: ).

I tried carrying these in the mid 80's. I never found it a good idea.

SouthNarc
01-06-2020, 02:43 PM
It is also obviously only a fighting implement (regardless of how the manufacturer tries to sell it as "tell them it is a massage tool :rolleyes: ).


My preferred story for the Stinger especially if it's under close scrutiny and examination by law enforcement, is that it's a prostate massager for better ejaculation over 50.

They usually drop it pretty quickly.

Cecil Burch
01-06-2020, 03:34 PM
My preferred story for the Stinger especially if it's under close scrutiny and examination by law enforcement, is that it's a prostate massager for better ejaculation over 50.

They usually drop it pretty quickly.


That's hawt.

txdpd
01-06-2020, 03:48 PM
Is this actually a force multiplier?

While I can't find it right now, I read something out of a kinesiology program that measure energy from different weight boxing gloves. For energy there wasn't much difference between the weight of gloves. A little bit of weight helped but with too much there was a significant decline. Yes you will hit "harder" with a roll of quarters, I doubt that the actual difference will amount to anything meaningful. That thing you feel when you punch with different weight gloves is momentum, that's mass times velocity. That thing that breaks bones is energy, that's 1/2 mass time velocity squared. Perception of "force" being multiplied doesn't mean there's an actual "force" multiplier.

If those little poker things pivot heel of the palm towards the finger tips, they can partially deglove fingers. If it's got to move somewhere it's going out between your fingers. We had an officer severely injure himself with a push dagger*, regardless of what he said happened, it was pretty obvious that would have turned 180 degrees between his fingers and the blade went through his thenar eminence and partially amputated his thumb. *if it really happened with a push dagger, since there's no way his "the blade broke" story could work out the way he says it happened.

TDA
01-08-2020, 09:32 PM
The other issue with the stinger is how do you carry it? If you carry it concealed, how do you get to it quickly and functionally deploy it? And if you carry it on your keychain (one of the ways they tell you to) it is bulky and pretty obvious. It is also obviously only a fighting implement (regardless of how the manufacturer tries to sell it as "tell them it is a massage tool :rolleyes: ).

I tried carrying these in the mid 80's. I never found it a good idea.

I carried my stinger in my front jacket hand warmer pocket, for about a month until it wasnít there anymore. You canít really go around to bars and ask for them like you could if you left your credit card.
In retrospect, doesnít the thing assume youíre going to be sinking a lot of strong hand shots to the ribs? If youíre a person who routinely sticks a lot of strong hand shots to peopleís ribs... Thereís nowhere to go, youíre already there.

Les Pepperoni
01-10-2020, 06:35 PM
Don't do that shit.

Well, I guess that settles it. Can we close the thread now?

45dotACP
01-10-2020, 09:22 PM
Well, I guess that settles it. Can we close the thread now?With Craig and Cecil being all "nah bro that's a bad idea" I can officially declare my curiosity satisfied.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

Robert Mitchum
02-07-2020, 04:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=UmBwdnEeW2Y&feature=emb_title

SouthNarc
02-07-2020, 04:14 PM
I gotta tell you I've seen so much fucking derp coming out of former SOF dudes here lately on every topic imaginable that it really makes me wonder what kind of experience they actually have.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=UmBwdnEeW2Y&feature=emb_title

blues
02-07-2020, 04:19 PM
I gotta tell you I've seen so much fucking derp coming out of former SOF dudes here lately on every topic imaginable that it really makes me wonder what kind of experience they actually have.

Amen. Aside from which it's just rehashed pablum.

Robert Mitchum
02-07-2020, 04:39 PM
I have personally seen stuff like this used

Not a roll of Quarters
48398

blues
02-07-2020, 04:44 PM
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61-b4exop5L._SY355_.jpg

Warped Mindless
02-08-2020, 06:15 AM
I gotta tell you I've seen so much fucking derp coming out of former SOF dudes here lately on every topic imaginable that it really makes me wonder what kind of experience they actually have.

I get shit on everytime I say this, because people take it out of context, but the experiance SOF guys have does not match the type of conflict regular CCW guys are looking to train for.

Its like brain surgery vs heart surgery. There is some cross over between the two but they are different enough that if you want to learn heart surgery you probably wont want to learn it from a brain surgeon.

A regular CCW guys possible threats, and resources available to deal with those threats, are vastly different than the threats and resources the SOF guy faced and had.

"I want an instructor with real experience so Im going with the former SEAL/Green Beret/Ranger/MARSOC guy..."

How much experience does that guy have in facing two potiental thugs while coming out of a gas station armed only with a smaller pistol, no body armor, tons of highly trained friends, or air support around?

How many times in Iraq was that SOF guy in a store and found himself in the direct vicinity of an armed robbery?

Some former SOF guys have never even fired their handguns in anger at another human and teach pistol classes.

BLUF: Im not saying that former SOF guys couldn't defend themselves very well in these and other scenarios. Im not saying that they are unable to train others to do so as well. What I am saying is that they spent their time in the military doing one type of surgery when the averge CCW guy is looking at a completely different type of surgery.

Mark D
02-08-2020, 05:29 PM
I gotta tell you I've seen so much fucking derp coming out of former SOF dudes here lately on every topic imaginable that it really makes me wonder what kind of experience they actually have.

I came to the same conclusion after watching a YouTube SEAL review a new Glock. Early in the vid he explains how he took the pistol to the gun shop to have aftermarket sights installed. That was my first clue. Then he shot the gun on camera and achieved, by P-F standards, a pretty crappy group at 7-10 yards. He noted the group was left of the bullseye, and dismissed the pistol completely because it didn't shoot POI-POA.

This is a guy with a huge following, and by all accounts, he saw action in the ME. And of course he has the cool guy ink and biceps. But he doesn't know how to drift his fricken sights, I won't include a link because he doesn't deserve any more views.

So yeah, plenty of derp from guys you'd think would know better.

Deaf Smith
02-08-2020, 09:28 PM
If you guys really want to go the quarters-in-the-sock route I suggest a good bar of soap instead. And Hanes socks work well.

But if not.. my I humbly suggest a 2 lb weight (barbell that is.) You can punch with it. You can use the ends that extend outside the hand as a 'hammer fist'. You can even throw it at them! And you tell the cops they are for exercise!!!


48465

Warped Mindless
02-09-2020, 05:45 AM
I came to the same conclusion after watching a YouTube SEAL review a new Glock. Early in the vid he explains how he took the pistol to the gun shop to have aftermarket sights installed. That was my first clue. Then he shot the gun on camera and achieved, by P-F standards, a pretty crappy group at 7-10 yards. He noted the group was left of the bullseye, and dismissed the pistol completely because it didn't shoot POI-POA.

This is a guy with a huge following, and by all accounts, he saw action in the ME. And of course he has the cool guy ink and biceps. But he doesn't know how to drift his fricken sights, I won't include a link because he doesn't deserve any more views.

So yeah, plenty of derp from guys you'd think would know better.

Ive worked with several former SOF guys. While almost all of them have been very amazing people, some of them were not as good at shooting as most would believe. Dont get me wrong, all were much better than average and all were competent, but when it came to shooting pistols, many were not some deadshot "I never miss" type as portrayed by the media and Hollywood.

Its a lot like fighting ability. Many people assume that all former sof dudes are walking kiliing machines. Some of them have great martial ability, some of them... Not so much to put it nicely.

blues
02-09-2020, 08:20 AM
Ive worked with several former SOF guys. While almost all of them have been very amazing people, some of them were not as good at shooting as most would believe. Dont get me wrong, all were much better than average and all were competent, but when it came to shooting pistols, many were not some deadshot "I never miss" type as portrayed by the media and Hollywood.

Its a lot like fighting ability. Many people assume that all former sof dudes are walking kiliing machines. Some of them have great martial ability, some of them... Not so much to put it nicely.

They are human and subject to the same strengths and weaknesses as the rest of us. Which makes their accomplishments all the greater, imho.

I admire them but don't worship them. I have learned from them when I've had the opportunity to train alongside them.

runcible
02-10-2020, 04:07 AM
I think fistloads by opponents is worth worrying about some, but that trying to carry and use ďinnocuousĒ items specifically for oneís own fist-loading isnít worth nearly the effort.

I donít chase the idea of a flashlight specifically optimized for hitting or gouging an opponent, as there are plenty of striking options available that can coincide with a flashlight being in-hand without potentially damaging or losing the light or unnecessary exposing me to othersí fluids: like a horizontal elbow shield or some sort of elbow strike.

If I worked in a place wherein I really had to prepare for hitting people with less-injurious force AND there was overhead cover, and didnít have traditional options, them something admittedly more overt like a sap or push dagger trainer seems much more effective.

Otherwise, most options are too limiting in their fill of the fending hand for their limited - if any - contribution to striking effectively. An empty hand can close to strike or manipulate my opponent; but a roll of quarters will mostly feed a vending machine, which Iím not too worried about during an engagement.

Cecil Burch
02-10-2020, 10:30 AM
Ive worked with several former SOF guys. While almost all of them have been very amazing people, some of them were not as good at shooting as most would believe. Dont get me wrong, all were much better than average and all were competent, but when it came to shooting pistols, many were not some deadshot "I never miss" type as portrayed by the media and Hollywood.

Its a lot like fighting ability. Many people assume that all former sof dudes are walking kiliing machines. Some of them have great martial ability, some of them... Not so much to put it nicely.


And here is the great secret of whatever H2H ability that SOF guys have for the most part - it has almost zero to do with technique, and everything to do with attributes. These are people who have been through an incredible crucible of selection and have demonstrated that they have superior physical and mindset attributes at a higher level than 99% of the population. And then that is reinforced through dedicated training (not H2H, but general mission oriented) and for most of them over the past 19 years, they also have actual combat experience. Take that stew and tell them to fight someone else empty handed, they will do pretty well against most people.

But that does not mean they know much of authentic, TRANSFERABLE H2H knowledge. When I first got to be buddies with Kyle Lamb, I was still in the "man, these Tier 1 guys are deadly fighters" and he set me straight right away. Few of them get any training beyond the already in place military combatives stuff, and even the units who do spend a little more time finding something else tends to do it in a short term course - i.e. maybe a 5 day long class with some expert, and then after have to squeeze in bits of practice time around all the other stuff they do. H2H is not high on the list for most when they rarely operate solo. It is much more efficient when they are in contact with a bad guy to have another unit member blow the guy off them with gunfire than it is to punch/elbow/knee/headbutt/eye gouge/choke. Most guys who go to a BJJ academy 2-3 times a week for two years have more dedicated empty hand training than all but a tiny fraction of SOF members.

Warped Mindless
02-10-2020, 11:00 AM
And here is the great secret of whatever H2H ability that SOF guys have for the most part - it has almost zero to do with technique, and everything to do with attributes. These are people who have been through an incredible crucible of selection and have demonstrated that they have superior physical and mindset attributes at a higher level than 99% of the population. And then that is reinforced through dedicated training (not H2H, but general mission oriented) and for most of them over the past 19 years, they also have actual combat experience. Take that stew and tell them to fight someone else empty handed, they will do pretty well against most people.

But that does not mean they know much of authentic, TRANSFERABLE H2H knowledge. When I first got to be buddies with Kyle Lamb, I was still in the "man, these Tier 1 guys are deadly fighters" and he set me straight right away. Few of them get any training beyond the already in place military combatives stuff, and even the units who do spend a little more time finding something else tends to do it in a short term course - i.e. maybe a 5 day long class with some expert, and then after have to squeeze in bits of practice time around all the other stuff they do. H2H is not high on the list for most when they rarely operate solo. It is much more efficient when they are in contact with a bad guy to have another unit member blow the guy off them with gunfire than it is to punch/elbow/knee/headbutt/eye gouge/choke. Most guys who go to a BJJ academy 2-3 times a week for two years have more dedicated empty hand training than all but a tiny fraction of SOF members.

Well said.

At my old BJJ place there was a whitebelt (im sure he is at least a blue by now) who was a former Ranger who had no formal training outside what he got in the military.

I remember him saying how humbling BJJ was because he was getting dominated by IT computer guys and and small high school kids.

He had a great attitude, serious work ethic, and great fitness base though so he learned quickly. I moved and started training somewhere else soon after but have no doubt hes a high level blue by now.

TDA
04-15-2020, 04:53 PM
If you guys really want to go the quarters-in-the-sock route I suggest a good bar of soap instead. And Hanes socks work well.

But if not.. my I humbly suggest a 2 lb weight (barbell that is.) You can punch with it. You can use the ends that extend outside the hand as a 'hammer fist'. You can even throw it at them! And you tell the cops they are for exercise!!!


48465

It's like Jane Fonda's Kubotan. Which I guess sort of brings up "Kubotan, yea or nay?" and sort of doesn't, since the Kubotan is more like a Yawara than it is like a roll of quarters. My experience with Yawara sticks is mostly limited to the 2004 Ashley Judd vehicle Twisted.

farscott
07-07-2020, 10:12 AM
It's like Jane Fonda's Kubotan. Which I guess sort of brings up "Kubotan, yea or nay?" and sort of doesn't, since the Kubotan is more like a Yawara than it is like a roll of quarters. My experience with Yawara sticks is mostly limited to the 2004 Ashley Judd vehicle Twisted.

Ahh, the Kubotan. When I first met my wife, she carried one on the keychain she used for work for the USDA. I asked her about its purpose. She smiled, jabbed it into my wrist, smiled even more, and said something like, "Compliance. It makes men compliant." Yes, her USDA job was weird. First time I learned that USDA had special agents.

Hot Sauce
07-07-2020, 11:46 PM
I remember him saying how humbling BJJ was because he was getting dominated by IT computer guys I believe SouthNarc's term for BJJ-versed IT computer guys was nerd ninjas. ;)