SHO/WHO Practice Question?

[Chris Rhines]

Something I've been wondering about. For those rare few who practice strong-hand and weak-hand-only shooting, how do you mix SHO/WHO practice into your normal practice regimen? Do you do a little bit of SHO/WHO practice at every range session? Or do you spend an occasional range session doing nothing but SHO/WHO practice? Something in between?

Normally, I lean towards option #2. Every other week or so, I dedicate an entire 200+ round range session to SHO/WHO work. Lately I've been having a lot of trouble staying focused for the entire range session. My first few drills will go well, but by the end of the practice session I've relapsed into hosing (note - this doesn't seem to happen when I practice freestyle.) So I've been thinking of switching my practice around and doing maybe 1-2 SHO/WHO drills, 50 rounds or so, at every practice.

Thoughts?

-C

[YVK]

In between. I almost always do some marksmanship drills during my practice regardless of what actual practice plan for a given session is. What I've done lately for marksmanship 'check' is a box of ammo into a center of B-16(RC) target (2 inches?) at 21- 25 feet, 10-15 two handed, 10-15 SHO, 20-30 WHO. This way I am nearly guaranteed to do some SHO/WHO during any given outing.

The rest falls under "it depends". If I plan on working pressouts, or follow-up shots, or draw, or whatever, I'd start two handed. If that is going well and I have ammo left, I'll do the same drills one-handed. If two-handed doesn't go well on a given day, there would be no sense for me to do WHO/SHO that day. This approach sometimes leads to me not practicing anything (other than those accuracy shots) one-handed for a long time. That's where my practice tracking helps: I do review it and if I see I hadn't done one-handed stuff for some time, I'd plan for a dedicated session.

[orionz06]

One thing Super Dave has worked into my brain was not SHO/WHO/Freestyle but rather shoot it right handed, left handed, and two handed. I have been making every effort to run though a lot of things 3 times. Dryfire this way has been very helpful as well. I am going to also start working in dry reps with my SIRT prior to running live to see if there is a tangible benefit to that, for me, or not.

[MEH]

I generally start every session with slow press out two hand, SHO, and WHO, then I move on to the specific days practice. I will incorporate SHO and WHO into whatever drills I am working on that day.

[SecondsCount]

Up until this year I could not stand shooting SHO/WHO but like you I have been pushing myself to improve in that area. I try to shoot 50 rounds at each session between them and am showing a huge improvement.

To keep me from getting completely bored as I typically shoot much slower with my weak hand, I mix it up. Sometimes if I have a bad drill with two hands I slow down and shoot the drill with one hand. This tends to reset my mental state and get me back on track.

[GJM]

Trying to improve my support hand shooting in a big way, I now start most every practice session with at least 100 rounds of .22 thru my Smith 317, shot support hand only. Then when I transition to my regular center fire session, towards the end of the session, I go support hand only, starting with a two inch dot on a PF target, and then to steel. On steel, I always integrate Rogers technique for part of it, of holding the trigger back while following through, and flipping and pressing, with the objective of breaking the shot as my front sight reaches the next target. (Do this with the SIRT inside, too).

I think a lot of support hand only shooting is just getting good reps with your support trigger finger. When you think how many presses you have with your dominant finger, and compare that to your support finger, it is easy to figure out why it feels so hard. I have actually gotten to the point over the last month, where support hand only feels more natural than strong hand only. I think the little 317 is key, as you have to steer the sights while manipulating a longish, heavy trigger in a lightweight revolver.

Quick note on targets, I typically use one paper target with the PF target and backer, and three MGM steel challenge 8 inch round disks, as they ring loudly when hit, are relatively portable and inexpensive, and use 2x4 pieces which can easily be replaced. Those MGM targets are on sale for about $100 each thru the end of April, although they only list 10 and 12 inch, but you can ask for 8 inch disks.

[JHC]

In Dec Ken Hackathorn made the following points. SHO occurs so often in reality that practicing it a lot is very important. WHO occurs so rarely in reality that it barely rates training time and ammo unless everything else is pretty buttoned up first. I said to myself: "Self, that's interesting."

I mix it in. I do more than I used to. Not nearly enough. I used to think it was futile but was suprised how fast it tunes up; even WHO.

[GJM]

In Dec Ken Hackathorn made the following points. SHO occurs so often in reality that practicing it a lot is very important. WHO occurs so rarely in reality that it barely rates training time and ammo unless everything else is pretty buttoned up first. I said to myself: "Self, that's interesting."

I mix it in. I do more than I used to. Not nearly enough. I used to think it was futile but was suprised how fast it tunes up; even WHO.

Of course using Ken's logic, we could also say, since use of a firearm is so unlikely, as is an engine failure in a jet, why practice at all. In my little world, a park ranger in Moab within the last two years, was involved in a gunfight, wounded, and used his support hand to save his life. Much more commonly, I know many people who have lost use of their dominant hand for a while due to injury, and it sure is nice to have skills to allow you to carry on. And, for those carrying a BUG, an appendix carried BUG on their support side surely works better with excellent support hand skills.

Of all the good things I credit to Bill Rogers, using a handgun with just one hand is near the top of the list!

[GOP]

Of course using Ken's logic, we could also say, since use of a firearm is so unlikely, as is an engine failure in a jet, why practice at all

This argument again?

It seems that every time someone in the training community argues that a technique is highly unlikely to happen in a gunfight, that the retort is always "gun fights are very unlikely too!" I suck at finite math; however, finite math did teach me that whenever there is a "and then" in the equation, the odds are lowered even farther. For example - "A man was involved in a gunfight, and then he had to use his weak hand to defend his life." The odds go from .5% (getting in a gun fight) to 0.005% (using your weak hand in a gun fight). Obviously, those numbers are arbitrary, but the point is the same. I'm all for training your weak hand, but it all comes down to available resources and priorities. If you have 60,000 rounds of ammo per year and 14-20 hours a week to practice, then by all means, train weak hand only shooting for 300-500 rounds per week. However, if you are like 99% of the population and have limited time and resources, it is probably best to prioritize your skills appropriately.

Northern Red (some very high speed dudes who have been in numerous gun fights themselves), recently talked about spending time training for the 1% instead of focusing on the 99% that is likely to happen. They referred to weak hand shooting as 1%.

GJM, I want you to know I'm not calling you out whatsoever and mean absolutely no disrespect at all. My post may sound harsh and that is unintentional, it wasn't directed at you.

To answer the OP's question, I train SHO every session and WHO once or twice a week.

[YVK]

I think all best efforts to prioritize specific aspects of training will fail to some degree. Aside from an argument of low probability of any armed encounter, what are the chances of us needing to utilize a multitude of sub-skills that we all practice to some extent or another? My last two carry pistols have had two stoppages in 20647 rounds, that's roughly 0.01% rate, should I stop practicing malfunction clearances for ever? I am all over my reloads, just broke 2.3 once, very happy about it, but will we ever need to speed-reload a pistol in encounter, where does that fall into probabilities? Aside from all theoretical advantages, do I really practically need a sub-2 second draw from a concealment? I wouldn't draw on a drawn gun, so perhaps, for all practical purposes, I'll have enough time for a 3 or 4 second draw? Do I need to practice transitions between 5 targets (the purpose of my bowling pin matches) for any realistic goals?
We practice stuff because there is stuff to be practiced; beyond few clear sets of tasks, most everything can be theoretically placed in 1% category. That's my take on it, sorry for the deviation.

[Chris Rhines]

Most USPSA matches, especially club-level matches, don't have much required SHO/WHO shooting. But the USPSA Classifiers frequently do. Short version, I want my GM card, and I need better SHO/WHO skills to get it.

My one-handed slow fire accuracy is quite good. I need to work more on speed and recoil management.

-C

[JHC]

Ken based that "triage" of training priority based on a pretty extensive study of FBI gunfight/shooting database incl vids of many events. He didn't push the issue, like most of his lessons, he puts out there his take on things and encouraged us to take what we found value in, and file away the rest.

I don't think he intended to dissuade advanced shooters from developing WHO. Just a matter of perspective.

[HeadHunter]

I sometimes do long SHO/WHO sessions but I usually put a little of both in every session.

When you last practiced is more important than how much you last practiced. --TG

[GJM]

This argument again?

It seems that every time someone in the training community argues that a technique is highly unlikely to happen in a gunfight, that the retort is always "gun fights are very unlikely too!" I suck at finite math; however, finite math did teach me that whenever there is a "and then" in the equation, the odds are lowered even farther. For example - "A man was involved in a gunfight, and then he had to use his weak hand to defend his life." The odds go from .5% (getting in a gun fight) to 0.005% (using your weak hand in a gun fight). Obviously, those numbers are arbitrary, but the point is the same. I'm all for training your weak hand, but it all comes down to available resources and priorities. If you have 60,000 rounds of ammo per year and 14-20 hours a week to practice, then by all means, train weak hand only shooting for 300-500 rounds per week. However, if you are like 99% of the population and have limited time and resources, it is probably best to prioritize your skills appropriately.

Northern Red (some very high speed dudes who have been in numerous gun fights themselves), recently talked about spending time training for the 1% instead of focusing on the 99% that is likely to happen. They referred to weak hand shooting as 1%.

GJM, I want you to know I'm not calling you out whatsoever and mean absolutely no disrespect at all. My post may sound harsh and that is unintentional, it wasn't directed at you.

To answer the OP's question, I train SHO every session and WHO once or twice a week.

GOP, if shooting support hand only compromised my ability to practice two hand shooting, I would absolutely agree with you. However, between the SIRT pistol to practice dry firing support hand, and the Smith .22 revolver, my support hand training costs almost nothing, does not tire me out mentally since the .22 has almost no overpressure, and is easy on my hands, wrists and elbows, since the 317 weighs and recoils so little. I would even argue that the trigger control practice from support hand only shooting improves my finesse free style, but I have no hard data to back that up.

I think the reason becoming a GM, as Chris points out, requires standards with a mastery of one hand shooting, is an expert pistol shooter is expected to be expert in shooting with any hand combination. I would like to think the goal for many of us here is to shoot at that level.

To HH's point, recency of practice means a lot with support hand shooting, and I believe Todd essentially said the same thing in his training journal. I think that while a lot of rounds may have to be expended to develop support hand skills, a more modest number of rounds is necessary to maintain those skills. I would much rather keep the support hand skills than have to require them.

Finally, the support hand proficiency may be a matter of personal vanity to me. My average test score at Rogers last time was 105. I want my average to be 115, and the easiest way to accomplish that is to chop away at the 8 points, on average, I dropped on test 8, the support hand only blast test.

[Ben Stoeger]

Something I've been wondering about. For those rare few who practice strong-hand and weak-hand-only shooting, how do you mix SHO/WHO practice into your normal practice regimen? Do you do a little bit of SHO/WHO practice at every range session? Or do you spend an occasional range session doing nothing but SHO/WHO practice? Something in between?

Normally, I lean towards option #2. Every other week or so, I dedicate an entire 200+ round range session to SHO/WHO work. Lately I've been having a lot of trouble staying focused for the entire range session. My first few drills will go well, but by the end of the practice session I've relapsed into hosing (note - this doesn't seem to happen when I practice freestyle.) So I've been thinking of switching my practice around and doing maybe 1-2 SHO/WHO drills, 50 rounds or so, at every practice.

Thoughts?

-C

I sort of lean towards option 1... mostly because I think I would get bored with option 2.

I figure if you just try most exercises or drills you do SHO/WHO you will learn something from it.

I find that working one handed really makes you focus on trigger control and helps you just plain improve as a shooter.

[JAD]

I wouldn't draw on a drawn gun.

Really? There are a lot of commands I would d.o.a.d.g. before complying with (sorry for the grammar). "get in the car." "lie down with your hands behind your head." stuff like that. That set of scenarios, which I find highly likely (within the unlikely subset of gunfights), is why I train the draw and movement offline very hard.

[JHC]

GOP, if shooting support hand only compromised my ability to practice two hand shooting, I would absolutely agree with you. However, between the SIRT pistol to practice dry firing support hand, and the Smith .22 revolver, my support hand training costs almost nothing, does not tire me out mentally since the .22 has almost no overpressure, and is easy on my hands, wrists and elbows, since the 317 weighs and recoils so little. I would even argue that the trigger control practice from support hand only shooting improves my finesse free style, but I have no hard data to back that up.

I think the reason becoming a GM, as Chris points out, requires standards with a mastery of one hand shooting, is an expert pistol shooter is expected to be expert in shooting with any hand combination. I would like to think the goal for many of us here is to shoot at that level.

To HH's point, recency of practice means a lot with support hand shooting, and I believe Todd essentially said the same thing in his training journal. I think that while a lot of rounds may have to be expended to develop support hand skills, a more modest number of rounds is necessary to maintain those skills. I would much rather keep the support hand skills than have to require them.

Finally, the support hand proficiency may be a matter of personal vanity to me. My average test score at Rogers last time was 105. I want my average to be 115, and the easiest way to accomplish that is to chop away at the 8 points, on average, I dropped on test 8, the support hand only blast test.

Personal vanity for me also. Worked the SHO/WHO from the Hackathorn Stds this morning.

[Jay Cunningham]

In my little world, a park ranger in Moab within the last two years, was involved in a gunfight, wounded, and used his support hand to save his life. Much more commonly, I know many people who have lost use of their dominant hand for a while due to injury, and it sure is nice to have skills to allow you to carry on. And, for those carrying a BUG, an appendix carried BUG on their support side surely works better with excellent support hand skills.

Murphy Strikes!

[YVK]

Really? There are a lot of commands I would d.o.a.d.g. before complying with (sorry for the grammar). "get in the car." "lie down with your hands behind your head." stuff like that. That set of scenarios, which I find highly likely (within the unlikely subset of gunfights), is why I train the draw and movement offline very hard.

Pogo, I wouldn't draw on a drawn gun as a default, first choice action. I may be forced to draw asap and take my chances, but that's different from immediate draw when one sees a muzzle end. However, I may draw after creating a distraction, or closing in and deflecting a muzzle, or whatever. Anyway, this is a different discussion altogether.

[Chris Rhines]

I find that working one handed really makes you focus on trigger control and helps you just plain improve as a shooter. This right here. It's worth repeating - just because a drill isn't practical, doesn't mean that it is useless...

-C

[ToddG]

Q: Does your draw get better (a) by practicing the draw a little bit each day or (b) by dedicating a lot of time on the draw in one session?
A: YES

Significant improvements involve significant effort. Whether that effort occurs 15 minutes a day four days a week or a single 1-hour session a week, the difference over the long run is going to be negligible. The guy who does the 1-hour dedicated session and another 15min 2-3 times per week is going to be ahead of the curve.

As GJM said, maintaing skill is different than building skill. Most folks don't really even maintain their SHO/WHO skills. They let them degrade to a certain unacceptable level, then the spend a few cram sessions building them back up... and then let them degrade again. Rinse, repeat.

I'd also agree completely on SHO helping trigger control. A good two-handed grip stabilizes the gun so well that your trigger finger can do relatively little to throw a shot significantly off target. Take that support hand away and suddenly it becomes much easier to move the gun with just your trigger finger.

As for prioritizing SHO and WHO, this thread does a great job of showing how hard it is to make a universal rule. Chris wants to make GM and along the way he's going to face a lot of WHO shooting in classifiers. For Chris, WHO is a serious facet of achieving his goal.

For folks who prioritize based on "real gunfights" instead, the data becomes murky and debatable. For example, a lot of studies show that SHO shooting is common in LEO OIS. But delve deeper and you get a better idea of why. Most of those 1-handed shootings are caused by one of two things:

A relatively poorly trained shooter who doesn't have the experience/habit to come to a good two handed grip automatically under stress. Anyone who's done a lot of Sim/FOF work with novice shooters will probably tell you he's seen a lot of those students revert to a SHO grip under stress. As skill level increases, the automatic default begins to trend toward the two handed grip when there is nothing specifically preventing it.
An officer who is holding a flashlight with his WH in reduced lighting. As WMLs become more common, you'll see this statistic change. (fwiw, as someone who doesn't have a WML on his carry gun, flashlight use is one of the main reasons I put as much time into SHO shooting as I do)


Very few instances of "shot one handed due to injury/inability" occur. That doesn't mean they never occur. It doesn't mean we should ignore them or stop training for them. But if you put a significant amount of your training effort into preparing for the highly unlikely at the cost of training for the likely, you're prioritizing based on emotion rather than logic.