We now have a Space Force!?

[ccmdfd]

Sorry, maybe we need it but all I can think about is that 1980s cartoon series.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/20/politics/trump-creates-space-force/index.html


cc

[GardoneVT]

Sorry, maybe we need it but all I can think about is that 1980s cartoon series.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/20/politics/trump-creates-space-force/index.html


cc

We’ve had a space force for a long time. The changes simply restructure it to a more practical organization. Liberal complaints aside, space is the next theatre of combat whether we like it or not. This was a needed step regardless of who’s in the White House.

[Odin Bravo One]

Should be glad to know there are now specific people to protect Uranus.

[jetfire]

Should be glad to know there are now specific people to protect Uranus.

Literally came here to make this same joke! Dammit.

On a serious note, yeah we've had a Space Force for a while, it was just called US Space Command, it is/was a MAJCOM like USSOCOM. What this does is restructure Space Command into its own branch, which I'm not really sure if we need it or not. My concern as a member of the USAF, the primary agency in Space Command is the new branch cannibalizing money from us that we really need to keep our planes flying.

[KellyinAvon]

Literally came here to make this same joke! Dammit.

On a serious note, yeah we've had a Space Force for a while, it was just called US Space Command, it is/was a MAJCOM like USSOCOM. What this does is restructure Space Command into its own branch, which I'm not really sure if we need it or not. My concern as a member of the USAF, the primary agency in Space Command is the new branch cannibalizing money from us that we really need to keep our planes flying.

Full disclosure: KellyinAvon, SMSgt, USAF (Retired). The flip side to that is, are the fighter jocks taking resources from Space? I don't know how this will work, having spent three years at HQ ACC which included PBD 720 and CSAR coming back to ACC from AFSOC (I was very involve with both) I can guarantee it will be uglier than homemade sin.

[10mmfanboy]

Our archaic weaponry will be a very real threat to the greys pffffft. Oh that is right, they don't exist, because that would mean our governments can't really protect us and we would realize they serve no real purpose in our lives.

[jetfire]

Full disclosure: KellyinAvon, SMSgt, USAF (Retired). The flip side to that is, are the fighter jocks taking resources from Space? I don't know how this will work, having spent three years at HQ ACC which included PBD 720 and CSAR coming back to ACC from AFSOC (I was very involve with both) I can guarantee it will be uglier than homemade sin.

I'm just a CATM dude, but based on my experiences with fighter jocks, I'm pretty sure they think that any money that doesn't go towards ACC is wasted.

[GardoneVT]

Literally came here to make this same joke! Dammit.

On a serious note, yeah we've had a Space Force for a while, it was just called US Space Command, it is/was a MAJCOM like USSOCOM. What this does is restructure Space Command into its own branch, which I'm not really sure if we need it or not. My concern as a member of the USAF, the primary agency in Space Command is the new branch cannibalizing money from us that we really need to keep our planes flying.

Someone in the Army probably had the same concern in 1947. I’m confident we’ll figure it out with time.
One things sure; the Russians and Chinese found money to stand up their space forces. We should do no less.

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't know nothing about nothing...but as an outsider I think it's pretty damned cool. I'm a firm believer we won't remain tethered to this planet forever. The need to explore coupled with just how damned smart some people are (and the force multiplier of computers getting better and better to help those smart people do smart things) is incredible. I usually feel quite blessed to be born when and where I was, but man sometimes I wonder on the adventures I'm not going to be around for.

[KellyinAvon]

I'm just a CATM dude, but based on my experiences with fighter jocks, I'm pretty sure they think that any money that doesn't go towards ACC is wasted.

The zipper-suited Sun-Gods rarely can see past their own radome. Not just a CATM dude, a USAF Cop who actually has personality! I always enjoyed the days I went to qualify on M16.

[KellyinAvon]

Someone in the Army probably had the same concern in 1947. I’m confident we’ll figure it out with time.
One things sure; the Russians and Chinese found money to stand up their space forces. We should do no less.

Considering the USAF was flying over MIG Alley in F-86 Sabres when the Army still had horse cavalry? Yeah I think maybe it's time.

[jetfire]

The zipper-suited Sun-Gods

I almost choked on my coffee when I read this

[txdpd]

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[Borderland]

Where do I sign up?

The last frontier.;)

[Wendell]

Which of the contemporary pistol options will be chosen by the Space Force?

Will they be commissioning something special, instead?

[Stephanie B]

If you have a fairly small group of people in a command that is now designated as its own branch, what sort of career path are they going to have that isn't incestuous (in a bureaucratic sense)? I suspect that a smaller group like that will become ossified at a very high rate.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The UN Spacy!

https://macross.fandom.com/wiki/U.N._Spacy

My kid and I used to watch Robotech when she was little. I regret I will not live long enough to see space dreadnoughts!

[GyroF-16]

Which of the contemporary pistol options will be chosen by the Space Force?

Will they be commissioning something special, instead?

The A-1 Disintegrator, of course.
And it goes well with the new uniform!

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[KellyinAvon]

Which of the contemporary pistol options will be chosen by the Space Force?

Will they be commissioning something special, instead?

I don't know about the pistol, but the long gun will be the Phased Plasma Rifle in the 40 Watt-Range.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

There used to be long discussions in Glock fora about whether a Glock would work in space. Of course, shooting Glocks underwater was a popular thread then. Some experts said the gun wouldn't work in space due to the lack of oxygen (OH, well - can you say back to Chemistry 1301).

On Battlestar Galactica, the FN Five-seveN was the fleet side arm. That four barrel COP was a CCW gun.

[ccmdfd]

There used to be long discussions in Glock fora about whether a Glock would work in space. Of course, shooting Glocks underwater was a popular thread then.

Oh the good old Quail Fat days! I remember them well

cc

[ccmdfd]

I was aware of the presence, and necessity of US Space Command before I posted this topic.

As to whether or not it's best to keep it as a branch of the USAF vs its own branch of the military, I'll leave that to others smarter than me. But I would like to see the arguments for and against laid out.

Guess it's just me and my remembrance of 1980s, but the name Space Force is just too comical for me. Should have left it as Space Command. Heck, I'd even tolerate Star Fleet better.

cc

[GardoneVT]

If you have a fairly small group of people in a command that is now designated as its own branch, what sort of career path are they going to have that isn't incestuous (in a bureaucratic sense)? I suspect that a smaller group like that will become ossified at a very high rate.

My understanding is thus; in the short term , the existing Air Force Space Command bureaucracy gets renamed. After the signs on the buildings get changed, they’ll offer Airmen in overlapping USAF/USSF jobs to pick one or the other. Those with dedicated Space Command AFSCs stay in the Space Force , while those with USAF only jobs stay with Big Blue.

Long term they’re setting it up to emulate the USMC/Navy org model. The Secretary of the Air Force retains overall command of the USSF , with the branch chief reporting to the SecAF at the same rank as the Air Force CoS.
Next year the same branch chief of the USSF (equal to the USMC Commandant) will sit on the JCS .



Guess it's just me and my remembrance of 1980s, but the name Space Force is just too comical for me. Should have left it as Space Command. Heck, I'd even tolerate Star Fleet better.

cc

Between all the TV shows and movie franchises on space, they can’t call it something “not comical”.

Space Command? Literally the title of probably hundreds of video games and used in Brad Pitts last movie (which stunk, but that’s a side topic). Fleet command? Hello “Starship Troopers” ( the Secretary of the Navy’s on line two for you sir )

May as well call it what it is and embrace the jokes.

[SeriousStudent]

The A-1 Disintegrator, of course.
And it goes well with the new uniform!

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46174

Just as long as they create an earth-shattering ka-boom.

[Borderland]

Which of the contemporary pistol options will be chosen by the Space Force?

Will they be commissioning something special, instead?

If a shot is fired in space and there's nobody around to hear it does it make a sound. Suppressors won't be part of the bid item.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Don't worry, someone will buy suppressors for space Glocks at $15, 895.00 a piece.

[HCM]

The A-1 Disintegrator, of course.
And it goes well with the new uniform!

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https://youtu.be/KSfsE9FiCto

Of course ROE are still a thing


https://youtu.be/yMIII3J_gQA

[Jim Watson]

Space Force: A new branch with its own chain of command, thereby increasing the chief-to-indian ratio.

Mandalorian: A single shot energy weapon?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

It was an advance over the muzzle loading disintegrator. Too many users disappeared when damping down the disintegrator powder.

[NEPAKevin]

Considering the USAF was flying over MIG Alley in F-86 Sabres when the Army still had horse cavalry? Yeah I think maybe it's time.

When my dad enlisted for WWII, the First Cavalry still had horses. I recall him mentioning not being terribly fond of cleaning horse stalls and that the horses liked to bite them.

[FNFAN]

Their Criminal Investigator credentials must be awesome! Open the badge case and a hologram pops up and fills the room!


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[blues]

Their Criminal Investigator credentials must be awesome! Open the badge case and a hologram pops up and fills the room!

https://i.imgur.com/DA0fidy.gif

"Please put them away. No one's buying it."

[Borderland]

Don't worry, someone will buy suppressors for space Glocks at $15, 895.00 a piece.

I heard the new Sig pistols cost about $200 each. Not quite there yet but they're doing better. The gov't, not Sig.

[Stephanie B]

Don't worry, someone will buy suppressors for space Glocks at $15, 895.00 a piece.
What's going to be expensive is designing recoilless handguns for the Space Troopers.

[Hambo]

Considering the USAF was flying over MIG Alley in F-86 Sabres when the Army still had horse cavalry?

You're off by about a decade. Although there were still horse cavalry units just prior to and at the beginning of WW2, they were on the way out. The last horses were in the Philippines in '42. Stateside units were transitioning to motorcycles, jeeps, and scout cars before Pearl Harbor. The scout cars sucked, so they began reorganizing with light tanks. By the time the Air force was flying over MiG Alley, horses were long gone.

Now back to Space Force. All I want to know is what camo pattern will they use.

[blues]

Now back to Space Force. All I want to know is what camo pattern will they use.

You'll never spot them in their "Night Sky Ether" uniform...(bare midriff optional)

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51u8Zyrl5uL._UY550_.jpg

[Jim Watson]

Their Criminal Investigator credentials must be awesome! Open the badge case and a hologram pops up and fills the room!

Nope. Got to have The Lens.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

You're off by about a decade. Although there were still horse cavalry units just prior to and at the beginning of WW2, they were on the way out. The last horses were in the Philippines in '42. Stateside units were transitioning to motorcycles, jeeps, and scout cars before Pearl Harbor. The scout cars sucked, so they began reorganizing with light tanks. By the time the Air force was flying over MiG Alley, horses were long gone.

Now back to Space Force. All I want to know is what camo pattern will they use.

My daughter, a few years ago, dated a soldier who was in a ceremonial horse unit. He fell off in some accident and ruined his shoulder.

[KellyinAvon]

You're off by about a decade. Although there were still horse cavalry units just prior to and at the beginning of WW2, they were on the way out. The last horses were in the Philippines in '42. Stateside units were transitioning to motorcycles, jeeps, and scout cars before Pearl Harbor. The scout cars sucked, so they began reorganizing with light tanks. By the time the Air force was flying over MiG Alley, horses were long gone.

Now back to Space Force. All I want to know is what camo pattern will they use.

I had 1952 in my head for when Horse Cavalry was finally retired. Memory is the second thing to go...

[NEPAKevin]

Now back to Space Force. All I want to know is what camo pattern will they use.

Per the last thread on Space Force:

https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.208429568.7238/flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.u2.jpg

[txdpd]

Now back to Space Force. All I want to know is what camo pattern will they use.

https://www.amazon.com/SafetyShirtz-SS360-Backwoods-Class-Safety/dp/B01G2JLFSI?ref_=ast_bbp_dp&th=1&psc=1

Rest assured it will involve bright colors and lots of integrated racing stripes. You know, for safety. On the battlefield our troops can be easily picked off identified as friendlies.

[Inkwell 41]

I would imagine that criminal investigations would be carried out by Section 31.

[Stephanie B]

Now back to Space Force. All I want to know is what camo pattern will they use.

Either pale green or gray, depending on what is the prevalent skin tone of aliens.

[GyroF-16]

https://www.amazon.com/SafetyShirtz-SS360-Backwoods-Class-Safety/dp/B01G2JLFSI?ref_=ast_bbp_dp&th=1&psc=1

Rest assured it will involve bright colors and lots of integrated racing stripes. You know, for safety. On the battlefield our troops can be easily picked off identified as friendlies.

Yeah, because Space Force warriors are going to take a lot of incoming enemy sniper fire.
Kinda like Hillary Clinton...

I’m sure they’ll get some cool Nomex flight suits to sit at their consoles and fly satellites. And leather jackets...

Don’t get me started... AF Space Command HQ building was next door to my building during a staff tour. That was when they came out with “Space Wings” for the Nametags on their flight suits and A-2 jackets.

46195

We had fun with that...
“TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!” (probably the “battle cry” of the new Space Force, too)

[Surf]

I was aware of the presence, and necessity of US Space Command before I posted this topic.

As to whether or not it's best to keep it as a branch of the USAF vs its own branch of the military, I'll leave that to others smarter than me. But I would like to see the arguments for and against laid out.

Guess it's just me and my remembrance of 1980s, but the name Space Force is just too comical for me. Should have left it as Space Command. Heck, I'd even tolerate Star Fleet better.

ccI am no expert, but if we take a historical look at our Military, why did we create any of the independent branches, why not just the US Armed Forces? Each had specific missions that were perhaps given less significance due to who was in command and the personal priority placed on the division. As a more simplified example let's consider the Air Force that was initially formed as a Division of the Army in the early 1900's.

The US Army command gave less attention and allocation of resources to the Army Air Command, yet we quickly learned that with technology increases that air superiority is an essential part of combat. This necessitated its own branch of service and its own command and budgets directed towards airpower that has led us to become the dominating airpower. Do we think that the Big Army Generals in 1907 could have foreseen or predicted where we are today, or where we were in the 1940s with air power? It was a logical and necessary progression to form the Air Force.

So this same example between the Air Force and Space Command and allocation of funds vs. the vision of the future of space would seem to be at the same crossroads. Now if some are correct we will all be dead in 11 or 12 years, so the Space Force is a waste of time. But if the nutjobs are wrong, it seems like a prudent decision to be the dominant power in space, it is the next battleground, and I am not talking about humans fighting in space but weapons technology in space is the frontier. Humans or robots fighting in space will follow.

[blues]

There's a place for you. Surf


https://www.herocollector.com/Content/ArticleImages/ed6e55ce-5ae2-40ec-b1ac-4ee745459dea.jpg

[Hambo]

You'll never spot them in their "Night Sky Ether" uniform...(bare midriff optional)

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51u8Zyrl5uL._UY550_.jpg


https://www.amazon.com/SafetyShirtz-SS360-Backwoods-Class-Safety/dp/B01G2JLFSI?ref_=ast_bbp_dp&th=1&psc=1

Rest assured it will involve bright colors and lots of integrated racing stripes. You know, for safety. On the battlefield our troops can be easily picked off identified as friendlies.

That's one helluva uniform. Skinny space pants aren't for me, so they'll have to explore strange new worlds without old Hambo.

[Hambo]

My daughter, a few years ago, dated a soldier who was in a ceremonial horse unit. He fell off in some accident and ruined his shoulder.

The US Cavalry from the Punitive Expedition to the beginning of WW2 fascinates me. This is an excellent book about the end of that era.

https://www.amazon.com/U-S-Cavalry-Transition-1938-1944-Mechanization-ebook/dp/B00C48VIIO/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+u+s+cavalry-time+of+transition&qid=1576979784&s=digital-text&sr=1-1

[TGS]

GyroF-16, Triggerf16, jetfire, Timbonez

With love.

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[Timbonez]

https://youtu.be/_AUXpnB065o

[TGS]

Oh man that was great, Timbonez. Welcome back brother.

[Timbonez]

It’s been 4+ years. I was just hanging out surfing my iPad when I get an email notification stating that TGS is calling me out for being in the Air Force... 😂

46200

[Stephanie B]

Yeah, because Space Force warriors are going to take a lot of incoming enemy sniper fire.
Kinda like Hillary Clinton...

I’m sure they’ll get some cool Nomex flight suits to sit at their consoles and fly satellites. And leather jackets...

Don’t get me started... AF Space Command HQ building was next door to my building during a staff tour. That was when they came out with “Space Wings” for the Nametags on their flight suits and A-2 jackets.

46195

We had fun with that...
“TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!” (probably the “battle cry” of the new Space Force, too)

Sounds like just another bunch of drone drivers, albeit in vacuum. It'll be the very first military force without any trigger-pullers.

So does this mean that the Space Force is going to send recruiters out to the armed forces recruiting stations? The fights at each one over who gets what desk will be epic.

[HCM]

Sounds like just another bunch of drone drivers, albeit in vacuum. It'll be the very first military force without any trigger-pullers.

So does this mean that the Space Force is going to send recruiters out to the armed forces recruiting stations? The fights at each one over who gets what desk will be epic.

If the Space Force can’t with a battle over office space how are they going to win in actual space ?

[Borderland]

You're off by about a decade. Although there were still horse cavalry units just prior to and at the beginning of WW2, they were on the way out. The last horses were in the Philippines in '42. Stateside units were transitioning to motorcycles, jeeps, and scout cars before Pearl Harbor. The scout cars sucked, so they began reorganizing with light tanks. By the time the Air force was flying over MiG Alley, horses were long gone.

Now back to Space Force. All I want to know is what camo pattern will they use.



https://i.ibb.co/T1fkvVV/trumpspace.png

I have to apologize. All I can see is Starship Troopers here.

https://i.ibb.co/m5vgxRH/rs-1024x759-130516164933-1024-Starship-Denise-mh-051613.jpg

[Borderland]

Either pale green or gray, depending on what is the prevalent skin tone of aliens.

That's down right inhuman.;)

[oakdalecurtis]

Should be glad to know there are now specific people to protect Uranus.

But do you know why we have to protect it?
We have to make sure that there are no Klingons hanging around Uranus!

[SeriousStudent]

It’s been 4+ years. I was just hanging out surfing my iPad when I get an email notification stating that TGS is calling me out for being in the Air Force... 😂



Agreed, good to see you again! Don't be a stranger. :)

[Stephanie B]

If the Space Force can’t with a battle over office space how are they going to win in actual space ?
The Space Cadets will drill on basic combat techniques with a Swingline 707.

It’s going to be hard to take a military branch seriously in which everyone from the Chief of Space down to junior enlisted can effectively do their jobs while wearing cocktail dresses and heels.

[GyroF-16]

Sounds like just another bunch of drone drivers, albeit in vacuum. It'll be the very first military force without any trigger-pullers.


Good point... I was contemplating that my retired ID card says “United Statee Uniformed Services”
I distinctly remember a time when my ID said “United States Armed Forces.”

I guess the Space Force will be the first “Unarmed Force”?

[HCM]

Sounds like just another bunch of drone drivers, albeit in vacuum. It'll be the very first military force without any trigger-pullers.

So does this mean that the Space Force is going to send recruiters out to the armed forces recruiting stations? The fights at each one over who gets what desk will be epic.

Maybe, maybe not...


https://youtu.be/B203twyaMfM

Didn’t Naval aviators is Vietnam find themselves at a disadvantage because some good idea fairy took the guns out of Navy fighters because/ push button warfare ?

The science fiction series the expanse is well known for their Practical application and extrapolation of current technologies that work according to the actual laws of physics. Ship to ship combat in space in the series consists of missiles, which they call torpedoes, railguns throwing large slugs, Mini guns for close defense and anti-missile defense similar to the CWS and boarding parties armed with small arms.

[GardoneVT]

The Space Cadets will drill on basic combat techniques with a Swingline 707.

It’s going to be hard to take a military branch seriously in which everyone from the Chief of Space down to junior enlisted can effectively do their jobs while wearing cocktail dresses and heels.

That being said, the Space Force’s collision insurance is far cheaper then the Navy’s....;)

[Lester Polfus]

That being said, the Space Force’s collision insurance is far cheaper then the Navy’s....;)

Seriously. We NEED a "golf clap" button.

[Stephanie B]

Good point... I was contemplating that my retired ID card says “United Statee Uniformed Services”
I distinctly remember a time when my ID said “United States Armed Forces.”

I guess the Space Force will be the first “Unarmed Force”?

Well, no. The "uniformed services" include the National Public health Service (think of the Surgeon General) and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Both of them only have officer ranks.

We had seven uniformed services, including two that didn't carry guns. Now we have eight and three, respectively.

[HCM]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/china-to-build-space-solar-power-station-pioneered-by-caltech_3180696.html


China announced it will begin building megawatt-capable solar power stations in space by 2035, as it intends to displace the United States as the leading space power.

The space-based solar power (SSP) were first designed by Caltech Jet Propulsion Laboratory scientists. Caltech (California Institute of Technology) spent 40 years perfecting SSP as a weapons platform and power replacement for U.S. “peak
oil.”
***
China Academy of Space Technology scientist Wang Li stated at the China-Russia Engineering Forum in late November that China was moving ahead to build a 200-ton power (SSP) station in space to capture the sun’s energy, convert it to microwaves or lasers, and wirelessly beam energy to the Earth. Wang said: “We hope to strengthen international cooperation and make scientific and technological breakthroughs so that humankind can achieve the dream of limitless clean energy at an early date.”
***
In spite of Obama’s confidence in what he praised as the New World Order, China has relentlessly pursued militarizing space since exploding in mid-air a 20-kiloton nuclear-tipped warhead on a DF-2A missile launch from Jiuquan on Oct. 27, 1966.
***
Despite an embargo against Chinese nationals working directly with U.S. space companies or NASA, the number of Chinese foreign exchange students “enrolled“ in U.S. colleges during the Obama administration for academic years 2009/2010 through 2016/2017 nearly quadrupled from 98,251 to 350,755. With the top American science, technology, engineering and math program, 195 of Caltech’s 2,238 students are now from China.

[txdpd]

That's one helluva uniform. Skinny space pants aren't for me, so they'll have to explore strange new worlds without old Hambo.

Well if Lululemon gets the contract your butt will look great in them. It’s military office gig, that’ll end up with a 6:1 male to female ratio, if you’re exploring it won’t be anywhere many men haven’t gone before.

[Joe in PNG]

So when are we going to build the first Orion drive Michael class space battleships?

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[Glenn E. Meyer]

I am worried that the Virginia Space National Guard will nuke the progun demonstrators from space as it is the only way to be sure, in some future protest against the next gun ban there.

[LittleLebowski]

Literally came here to make this same joke! Dammit.

On a serious note, yeah we've had a Space Force for a while, it was just called US Space Command, it is/was a MAJCOM like USSOCOM. What this does is restructure Space Command into its own branch, which I'm not really sure if we need it or not. My concern as a member of the USAF, the primary agency in Space Command is the new branch cannibalizing money from us that we really need to keep our planes flying.


Laughs at budget concerns in Marine

[SeriousStudent]

Yes, what is this budget thing of which you speak?

I have heard they exist in far-off lands, but they are unfamiliar to my tribe.

[GyroF-16]

Yes, what is this budget thing of which you speak?

I have heard they exist in far-off lands, but they are unfamiliar to my tribe.

Doing a great impersonation of a Californian, there, SS.

[gkieser92]

What's going to be expensive is designing recoilless handguns for the Space Troopers.

Time to bring back Jyrojet pistols?

[Stephanie B]

Time to bring back Gyrojet pistols?

Those would work.

The Space Force is expected to have maybe 15,000 people (https://www.defensenews.com/space/2019/03/01/space-force-to-cost-2-billion-include-15000-personnel-in-first-five-years/), which will make it the largest of the non-combatant uniformed services.

In my definition, someone who can't be shot at in return is not a combatant. Space forcers who do well will be awarded the Drone Driver Medal of Distinction:

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[Glenn E. Meyer]

A small diversion, as the Space Force tools up, the carrier force is in trouble: https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2019/12/22/amid-a-heated-aircraft-carrier-debate-the-us-navy-sees-funding-slashed-for-a-next-generation-fighter/

[Timbonez]

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[Timbonez]

46282

[Wondering Beard]

I'll take it as an endorsement:

China attacks the newly formed U.S. Space Force as a 'direct threat to outer space peace and security' (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7821261/China-attacks-US-Space-Force-threat-outer-space-peace.html)

[Timbonez]

I'll take it as an endorsement:

China attacks the newly formed U.S. Space Force as a 'direct threat to outer space peace and security' (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7821261/China-attacks-US-Space-Force-threat-outer-space-peace.html)

Sort of like China making man-made islands is a direct threat to freedom of navigation of the seas, peace, and security.

[GardoneVT]

In my definition, someone who can't be shot at in return is not a combatant. Space forcers who do well will be awarded the Drone Driver Medal of Distinction:

46278

The service branch isn’t even a week old yet. Could the current capabilities & missions of the US Air Force be conceived by the Army leadership of 1947? That’s a certified NO.

Supersonic bombers? Radar invisible craft? 9G sustained turn capability? Close Air Support with heavy bombers? Putting a bomb through a window from 15000 ft? All of that is Issac Asimov fantasyland to a 1947 general .

By 2030, with the way things are going between Russia, China and smaller countries gaining access to space (like India) we are on the path to making the Xbox HALO franchise happen for real. Potentially with shock troops jumping out of capsules at a landing site.

[Stephanie B]

The service branch isn’t even a week old yet. Could the current capabilities & missions of the US Air Force be conceived by the Army leadership of 1947? That’s a certified NO.

Supersonic bombers? Radar invisible craft? 9G sustained turn capability? Close Air Support with heavy bombers? Putting a bomb through a window from 15000 ft? All of that is Issac Asimov fantasyland to a 1947 general .

By 2030, with the way things are going between Russia, China and smaller countries gaining access to space (like India) we are on the path to making the Xbox HALO franchise happen for real. Potentially with shock troops jumping out of capsules at a landing site.

I disagree. Guided bombs existed. Supersonic bombers were conceptual, as supersonic flight had been achieved. Steath was a known concept, too, though the thought was that the airplanes would be mainly wooden.

I don't see capsules dropping from orbit with Space Troopers anytime soon. there aren't the rockets or launch pads to do that.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The Germans discussed manned space glider bombers during WWII. Their flying wing prototypes might have had steathly qualities.

[Joe in PNG]

The Germans discussed manned space glider bombers during WWII. Their flying wing prototypes might have had steathly qualities.

Our flying wings certainly did.

And if you want some serious background about how war will probably work in space, go here (http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacewarintro.php).

Warning- this site is a huge time sink, akin to TV Tropes. Reader beware!

[NEPAKevin]

Didn’t Naval aviators is Vietnam find themselves at a disadvantage because some good idea fairy took the guns out of Navy fighters because/ push button warfare ?


The F4 Phantom did not have an integral gun until IIRC the E variant. What ever reasons/excuses were given, I would hazard a guess that like most decisions made by the government-military-military industrial complex, you would have to follow the money to get to anything resembling the truth.

[Caballoflaco]

I don't see capsules dropping from orbit with Space Troopers anytime soon. there aren't the rockets or launch pads to do that.

Personal opinion here, but the biggest problem with deploying anything from space is that it is highly likely to lead to global thermonuclear warfare. How long are the other guys going to wait to make sure that surprise re-entry isn’t powered by the atom?

We’ve only had atomic weapons for about 75 years. All we have to do now is try our best to avoid recreating the surface of the sun on our planet until we’re extinct as a species.

[SeriousStudent]

46281

Interesting, thanks for posting the letter. Will the folks who are currently Air Force truly get to choose their branch?

I know there is a great deal of pride in one's choice of service. I'm just curious if people will be able to volunteer to move from Air Force to Space Force, or if they will be "volun-told".

Just curious thoughts from a "Mud Force" veteran.

[Joe in PNG]

Personal opinion here, but the biggest problem with deploying anything from space is that it is highly likely to lead to global thermonuclear warfare. How long are the other guys going to wait to make sure that surprise re-entry isn’t powered by the atom?

We’ve only had atomic weapons for about 75 years. All we have to do now is try our best to avoid recreating the surface of the sun on our planet until we’re extinct as a species.

From space, you don't even need atomic weapons. Large rocks work perfectly fine- just ask Mannie & Mycroft.

[GardoneVT]

I don't see capsules dropping from orbit with Space Troopers anytime soon. there aren't the rockets or launch pads to do that.

Today this obviously so.

But in 20 years? We went from the Bell X-1 to the A-12 in 17 years.I think it shortsighted to conclude space force operations will always be behind a desk. With China and Russia in the game....who knows.

[Stephanie B]

Personal opinion here, but the biggest problem with deploying anything from space is that it is highly likely to lead to global thermonuclear warfare. How long are the other guys going to wait to make sure that surprise re-entry isn’t powered by the atom?

Good point. Some decades back, I was told of a program that had something to do with inserting antiship mines via ballistic rockets. I wanted to know what moron came up with that idea, as nobody was going to wait to see if the incoming rocket produced antiship mines or mushroom clouds. I'm sure my comments went nowhere, but I'm betting that a lot of other people raised the same objection, as I never heard another peep.

[oakdalecurtis]

I’ll let you all in on a little secret. Our formation of a Space Force isn’t about terrestrial threat reduction. Don’t ask me how I know....
👽

[Timbonez]

Interesting, thanks for posting the letter. Will the folks who are currently Air Force truly get to choose their branch?

I know there is a great deal of pride in one's choice of service. I'm just curious if people will be able to volunteer to move from Air Force to Space Force, or if they will be "volun-told".

Just curious thoughts from a "Mud Force" veteran.

One of my buddies from the B-1 transitioned to the Air National Guard years ago and he recently mentioned on Facebook that he was allowed to transition to USSF (I assume their Reserve/Guard component). My assumption is that the transition for folks from USAF to USSF is for those with an AFSC that is related to Space but who knows, that guy was a comms guy before he was a B-1 WSO. Like the USMC falls under the Department of the Navy, the Space Force will still fall under the Department of the Air Force.

Unless there is some type of space combat I’m not interested. Only really want to do cool guy stuff 😁

[SeriousStudent]

One of my buddies from the B-1 transitioned to the Air National Guard years ago and he recently mentioned on Facebook that he was allowed to transition to USSF (I assume their Reserve/Guard component). My assumption is that the transition for folks from USAF to USSF is for those with an AFSC that is related to Space but who knows, that guy was a comms guy before he was a B-1 WSO. Like the USMC falls under the Department of the Navy, the Space Force will still fall under the Department of the Air Force.

Unless there is some type of space combat I’m not interested. Only really want to do cool guy stuff 😁

Yup, only if they allow you to wear a Noveske ball cap in space whilst smiting our nation's enemies. :cool:

[JTQ]

Will the folks who are currently Air Force truly get to choose their branch?

I know there is a great deal of pride in one's choice of service. I'm just curious if people will be able to volunteer to move from Air Force to Space Force, or if they will be "volun-told".
I'm not current, but it will probably be a combination of volunteering - getting selected/getting turned down, and as you say "volun-told".

I was a B-52 guy when both the B-1 and B-2 came on line. They have to have the right mix of personnel, ranks, and year groups, because you can screw up the current group and the new group by taking a bunch of the same folks.

[Timbonez]

Yup, only if they allow you to wear a Noveske ball cap in space whilst smiting our nation's enemies. :cool:

Haha. I eventually switched to an OD BCM American flag ball cap. I used to tell the newer kids that the hat had dropped more bombs they they did. I’m not flying these days though.

[Timbonez]

46325

[Caballoflaco]

Good point. Some decades back, I was told of a program that had something to do with inserting antiship mines via ballistic rockets. I wanted to know what moron came up with that idea, as nobody was going to wait to see if the incoming rocket produced antiship mines or mushroom clouds. I'm sure my comments went nowhere, but I'm betting that a lot of other people raised the same objection, as I never heard another peep.

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[Hambo]

I just read some quotes from the new commander. Gotta have priorities:


In addition to infrastructure, the new Space Command needs to figure out things like new uniforms and a logo.
"A uniform, a patch, a song — it gets to the culture of — of a service. And so we're not going to be in a rush to — to get something and not do that right. There's a lot of work going on towards that end," Raymond said.

[KellyinAvon]

I retired from the USAF in 2007. I was never a rah-rah Air Force Song kind of troop. I will say those Space-Pukes better find their own damn song that sounds ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like what was written by Robert Crawford in 1937.

[Joe in PNG]

With Star Wars cratering, they could probably pick it the rights cheap from Disney in a few years.

[SeriousStudent]

With Star Wars cratering, they could probably pick it the rights cheap from Disney in a few years.

Probably this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljiVRV5B5i8

[Half Moon]

I retired from the USAF in 2007. I was never a rah-rah Air Force Song kind of troop. I will say those Space-Pukes better find their own damn song that sounds ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like what was written by Robert Crawford in 1937.

Indeed. New force for a new generation. The theme needs to be catchy and modern. Yes, I'm saying J-Pop:

https://youtu.be/XphjF-fHZkM

[Shoresy]

Yup, only if they allow you to wear a Noveske ball cap in space whilst smiting our nation's enemies. :cool:

Noveske? What is this the Revolutionary War? Space operators wear Omni Consumer Products logos.

[Stephanie B]

I retired from the USAF in 2007. I was never a rah-rah Air Force Song kind of troop. I will say those Space-Pukes better find their own damn song that sounds ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like what was written by Robert Crawford in 1937.

This will work:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1J8E9dnd5g

[Drang]

I just read some quotes from the new commander. Gotta have priorities:


...a song...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKftiJS30Cs

[Drang]

Which of the contemporary pistol options will be chosen by the Space Force?

Will they be commissioning something special, instead?


The A-1 Disintegrator, of course. ]

I believe that the correct answer is the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_the_Martian), also known as the Uranium PU-36 or Illudium PU-36 for short.

[GyroF-16]

I believe that the correct answer is the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_the_Martian), also known as the Uranium PU-36 or Illudium PU-36 for short.

Yeah, I though of that... but it’s more of a long-distance hand-grenade, for destroying pesky planets that obstruct your view of Venus. And you have to light the fuse...

Since we were talking about sidearms, I thought the A-1 more appropriate.

[willie]

The other services may palm off their screwups on the Space Force. The Army might send troops with a wooden leg there; the Navy their mentally ill; the Air Force their folks who can't see; and the Marines their grunts with low IQ's. And so on.

[GyroF-16]

...and the Marines their grunts with low IQ's.

Then who would they have left?

[SeriousStudent]

Then who would they have left?

Easy now.....

One of my very favorite things to do when stationed north of Kadena Air Base was to visit with their Wing Commander, when one of his fighter pilots had committed some transgression.

He would then be fodder for one of our TRAP exercises - Tactical Recovery of Aircraft and Pilot. You notice to order of those two nouns - they were highly interested in pieces of electronic equipment. "Oh, and if you happen to find Lt NoiseMaker out there, please bring him along as well."

He would then tell the nice gentleman that he was to go with the Marines in their truck, and they would bring him back in a few days.

We actually suspended one dude in a chute harness off the slide of a cliff in a rainstorm. A couple of times we'd do a joint-service party - have PJ's from Kadena along with the SF guys from Torii Station all racing to be the first one to find him. Losers had to pay for the winner's bar tab in Kinville.

Good times. :)

[Half Moon]

Then who would they have left?

More importantly could the budget of such a small service as Space Force absorb the costs of the crayon consumption rate?

[txdpd]

Then who would they have left?

It’s the smart kids that want to be grunts. The dumb ones wrench on helicopters.

[Stephanie B]

It’s the smart kids that want to be grunts. The dumb ones wrench on helicopters.
Having known two Marine helo mechanics, I suspect that you may be correct.

[Joe in PNG]

What sidearm? Either a DeLameter or an H&K VP 70.

[Borderland]

All potential military recruits must take the ASVAB (IQ).


To qualify, recruits must score higher than roughly one-third of all who take the ASVAB. The lowest acceptable percentile score to join is 36 for the Air Force, 35 for the Navy, 32 for the Marine Corps, and 31 for the Army.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/after-service/201801/are-military-members-the-lowest-our-low

I don't know what the Coast Guard is but they have some unique physical requirements. When I tried to join they told me I had to be over 6' tall. The reason, as they explained it to me, if the ship sinks you have to be able to wade ashore. I guess that's the reason the Navy calls them shallow water sailors. ;)

[Drang]

Kind of wondering if any Army or Naval Services personnel might be offered an opportunity to change uniforms; I knew several guys who were authorized to wear the USAF "Star Trek" badge, so called because it incorporated the familiar Star Fleet swoopy delta shape, although I never talked to them in a SCIF so I was unclear just what "SpaColl" entailed...

Other thought: Eventually, the Space Force will have space-faring vessels. Thinking about John Ringo's Looking Glass (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B074CJ3P3M?ref_=dbs_r_series&storeType=ebooks) series, the nuclear sub that is converted to Earth's first space warship is first commanded by a Nasal Aviator fighter jock, and then by a Submariner. The difference in command styles and philosophies between an airedale and a bubble head become a minor plot point.

So far as I can recall, this was the first SF book (series) that actually considered space-based warfare beyond questions of propulsion, weapons, and life-support systems.

[jeep45238]

Really, all this amounts to is administrative separation of the USAF's current space obligations, much like prior separation of the Army's Air Corps.

That said, my old uni with space wings would slot right in.

https://www.squadronposters.com/product/space-analysis-squadron/
You'll find me at most matches wearing my old squadron shirts.

[Half Moon]

Kind of wondering if any Army or Naval Services personnel might be offered an opportunity to change uniforms; I knew several guys who were authorized to wear the USAF "Star Trek" badge, so called because it incorporated the familiar Star Fleet swoopy delta shape, although I never talked to them in a SCIF so I was unclear just what "SpaColl" entailed...

Other thought: Eventually, the Space Force will have space-faring vessels. Thinking about John Ringo's Looking Glass (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B074CJ3P3M?ref_=dbs_r_series&storeType=ebooks) series, the nuclear sub that is converted to Earth's first space warship is first commanded by a Nasal Aviator fighter jock, and then by a Submariner. The difference in command styles and philosophies between an airedale and a bubble head become a minor plot point.

So far as I can recall, this was the first SF book (series) that actually considered space-based warfare beyond questions of propulsion, weapons, and life-support systems.

Probably the best extrapolation I've seen of deep space combat, without too much physics bending, is towards the end of Nightrider by David Mace:

https://www.amazon.com/Nightrider-David-Mace/dp/0586062068/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=nightrider+David+mace&qid=1577453347&sr=8-1

Long out of print but available used. As a book- good but flawed.

Though, of course, the military will still be the military, even in SPAAACE:

http://projectavalon.net/Allamagoosa.pdf

[Drang]

Though, of course, the military will still be the military, even in SPAAACE:

http://projectavalon.net/Allamagoosa.pdf

Allamagoosa was AWESOME. "Offog", indeed!

[HCM]

https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2019/09/nsa-studying-satellite-hacking/160009/?fbclid=IwAR2HHYTU-OFY8gpDD_BG1J90IKCoB7zdwTncWSJthz39ckf63UaByilITXE

The NSA Is Studying Satellite Hacking


Low Earth orbit will soon be awash in small satellites, and the national security community is increasingly concerned about their security.

Researchers at the National Security Agency are using artificial intelligence to characterize strange behaviors in small satellites to understand if they’ve secretly been brought under adversarial control.

“We’re looking at a way to characterize telemetry data so that as we deploy new satellites, we can make adjustments,” said Aaron Ferguson, the technical director of the encryption solutions office of NSA’s Capabilities Directorate, said at a Defense One event on Tuesday.


so those satellites that move outside of that place or that are deployed elsewhere are exhibiting unusual, or anonymous behavior. That behavior could suggest a serious compromise but humans by themselves don’t always notice it and don’t have the capacity to reach a determination quickly, as there is often too much data. “Can we characterize small sat behaviors to be good? Bad, or I don’t know?’” said Ferguson, who emphasized that the effort was not yet a program, but an active experimentation that might one day lead to a program.

Additionally, he said his team was also looking to see “how can we deploy some type of malware to a small sat, through a ground station,” to better judge the threat to small satellites.

Why is that important? If you’ve paid any attention to the military discussion about the use of space over the past couple of years, you’ve probably heard two key points. The first is that the United States is planning to put vast constellations of small satellites in low Earth orbit in the coming years, where they offer new, faster ways for the military to collect intelligence and communicate. You’ve also likely heard that U.S. officials are very worried about new and growing threats to its assets in space. But the vast volume of data coming from small satellites may make it difficult to determine if they’ve been compromised by an adversary.

[El Cid]

What sidearm? Either a DeLameter or an H&K VP 70.

Not sure about sidearms. But anyone who has watched Stargate SG-1 knows there is a large contract coming for FN P-90’s.

[Stephanie B]

It would seem that originality is not a strong feature with the Console Jockeys:

47692

[BehindBlueI's]

It would seem that originality is not a strong feature with the Console Jockeys:

47692

I wonder if the same complaint was launched (heh) in the 1980's?

https://www.afspc.af.mil/portals/3/images/AFSPC.jpg?ver=2016-04-20-114014-697

- https://www.afspc.af.mil/About-Us/AFSPC-History/

[Stephanie B]

I wonder if the same complaint was launched (heh) in the 1980's?

https://www.afspc.af.mil/portals/3/images/AFSPC.jpg?ver=2016-04-20-114014-697

- https://www.afspc.af.mil/About-Us/AFSPC-History/

It probably was. (Can’t do links right now.)

[Tom Duffy]

What sidearm? Either a DeLameter or an H&K VP 70.

From Doc Smith's Lensman series?

[jeep45238]

I wonder if the same complaint was launched (heh) in the 1980's?

https://www.afspc.af.mil/portals/3/images/AFSPC.jpg?ver=2016-04-20-114014-697

- https://www.afspc.af.mil/About-Us/AFSPC-History/

I was coined by the commander of AFSPC about 2 years into my enlistment for some stuff. That coin's one of three that really meant a lot to me from my time.

[Joe in PNG]

From Doc Smith's Lensman series?

Was hoping someone would catch that.

[Lester Polfus]

What sidearm? Either a DeLameter or an H&K VP 70.

47750

[Tom Duffy]

Was hoping someone would catch that.
Somebody ought to start a Lensman group on PF. It can't be me. I don't have enough jets to swing that load. :)

[HCM]

48835

[deflave]

Quite a few openings on USAJOBS last time I looked.

All GS-15 stuff.

[Hambo]

I was a little disappointed yesterday because an airman sang the national anthem instead of a spaceman from the Space Force Band.

[HCM]

It’s been 4+ years. I was just hanging out surfing my iPad when I get an email notification stating that TGS is calling me out for being in the Air Force... 😂

46200

48843

[deflave]

I was a little disappointed yesterday because an airman sang the national anthem instead of a spaceman from the Space Force Band.

You can't sing in a vacuum.

Duh.