View Full Version : Short vs long slide with a red dot
In the recent Glock shootability thread, there was passing reference to the performance of a short vs a longer slide with a red dot. Previously the short Glock slide came at the cost of a 19 length frame, but now we have the 45 and 19X combining shorter slides with full size grips. I have done quite a bit of testing with different slide lengths, including as recently as a few hours ago, and continue to have my best performance with a dot on the longer Glock 34. Surf referenced some work he has done with the G45 MOS, and I am certain others have information to contribute, so I thought it would be an interesting topic.
In the recent Glock shootability thread, there was passing reference to the performance of a short vs a longer slide with a red dot. Previously the short Glock slide came at the cost of a 19 length frame, but now we have the 45 and 19X combining shorter slides with full size grips. I have done quite a bit of testing with different slide lengths, including as recently as a few hours ago, and continue to have my best performance with a dot on the longer Glock 34. Surf referenced some work he has done with the G45 MOS, and I am certain others have information to contribute, so I thought it would be an interesting topic.
Should be very interesting. Seems from the long "teach me about STI" thread, the company has more or less settled on barrel/slides biased more on the shorter side (4.1-4.45) for optimal tracking in that very different 2011 platform.
Regarding your 34 results, suppose it could be something like the weight being further out from your steering controls (grip/trigger work) steadies it all for you?
Would that qualify as moment of intertia?
Darth_Uno
12-16-2019, 05:20 PM
For me, drill times continue to come in slightly better with an RMR'ed 17 vs a 19. I don't have a 34 to compare it to. I suspect this is due more to "pointability" of a 17 vs a 19. YMMV.
These are times that only a gamer would care about, and likely make no difference in the real world. I'd try (and likely fail) to earn a FAST coin with a 17, but I'm quite comfortable carrying a 19 and usually do...sometimes with iron sights.
ranger
12-16-2019, 06:46 PM
Should be very interesting. Seems from the long "teach me about STI" thread, the company has more or less settled on barrel/slides biased more on the shorter side (4.1-4.45) for optimal tracking in that very different 2011 platform.
Regarding your 34 results, suppose it could be something like the weight being further out from your steering controls (grip/trigger work) steadies it all for you?
Would that qualify as moment of intertia?
On the STI thread, I assumed the 4.1 to 4.45 inch length was driven by 9mm reliability in a 2011 package vs optimal tracking but I have missed something?
Number of people who own otherwise identically set up G34 and G45 - 4.
Number people who have shot both in all of the following: plinking, practice, drills, classes, matches, Gabe standards and qualifiers - 2.
Projected number of pages in this thread - 12.
Doc_Glock
12-16-2019, 09:34 PM
In my limited experience I tend to have the same problem Surf does with longer slides: They tend to see-saw for me when I shoot faster, and the front of the slide dips as I recover from recoil. Same experience with the Brig Tac versus say a Centurion. But I don't have any field course shooting to compare, just performance on various drills.
Interestingly I don't notice it as much with a P30l versus a P30, but I still prefer the P30.
mrozowjj
12-17-2019, 12:10 AM
In my limited experience I tend to have the same problem Surf does with longer slides: They tend to see-saw for me when I shoot faster, and the front of the slide dips as I recover from recoil. Same experience with the Brig Tac versus say a Centurion. But I don't have any field course shooting to compare, just performance on various drills.
Interestingly I don't notice it as much with a P30l versus a P30, but I still prefer the P30.
I've noticed that I get a lot of that see-saw on guns with a higher bore axis. (I tend to think gun mag writers place a high importance on the higher vs lower bore axis and make it sound like a BFD but for most people it doesn't matter.)
So I don't notice the longer slide as much on say a CZ Shadow 2 or so much on a Glock but on the Walther PPQ the 4 inch has noticeably less see-saw than the 5 inch. I thought it was maybe just a weight thing since the Shadow 2 is a fucking brick but I shot the PPQ Steel Frame and it still see-saws more.
secondstoryguy
12-17-2019, 12:28 AM
Been messing around with both the G19, G17 and G34 Gen 5 MOS guns equipped with the RMR and the ACRO for the last year. I tend to like the 34 the best and do my best shooting with it. It's what I carry on duty (with an ACRO).
It is easy to get sucked in by how the dot looks or feels, or even how you do shooting a one target drill. I was initially pretty puzzled as to why the G45 configuration felt so good in practice, but my match placement was consistently better with the 34.
It is easy to get sucked in by how the dot looks or feels, or even how you do shooting a one target drill. I was initially pretty puzzled as to why the G45 configuration felt so good in practice, but my match placement was consistently better with the 34.
+1 as soon as you get to shooting a stage the marksmanship has been "contextualized" around solving a problem with some amount of thinking - vs repping on drills.
The mass out there has got to be the factor. Figuring like grips, like triggers, like RDS - the only variable is the mass out there beyond the RDS.
secondstoryguy
12-17-2019, 10:45 AM
For me it’s the “pointability” of the longer slide G34. When I index a target it just seems to point/index better. The amount is minor but it’s there. Also, with a light mounted (X300) your holster is going to be the same length regardless of it being a G19/G17/G34 so there’s really no downside. I know some will say that the light can act as a stand-off for contact shots on the shorter slides...it still sticks out from the muzzle slightly on the 34/35...
It is easy to get sucked in by how the dot looks or feels, or even how you do shooting a one target drill. I was initially pretty puzzled as to why the G45 configuration felt so good in practice, but my match placement was consistently better with the 34.
Was this with a gen 5 34? I remember you saying you did better with the finger grooves on a g34. Also out of curiosity what is the performance delta on static drills? My thought is that this would isolate some of the variabilities.
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