What Leather Holster Makers Make The Grade For Heavy Use FOF Testing?

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

We all hear about the good kydex makers on PF, but I seldom hear it talked about in the leather game as to what is duty ready and vetted. I would imagine 5-Shot & J.R. Customs would be counted amongst the ranks, but who might also be building rugged vetted stuff?

[Cypher]

What do you mean by "Duty Ready"?

I'm really impressed with Kramer Leather but I don't think they make duty holsters

[Lost River]

Milt Sparks and Kramer have both been used for years in LE.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

Not necessarily LE duty, just built and tested to be unlikely to see failures.

[Lost River]

What do you mean by "Duty Ready"?

I'm really impressed with Kramer Leather but I don't think they make duty holsters


Kramer makes (or made, not sure) a paddle holster that was issued to the Michigan State Police for years.

[Cypher]

Not necessarily LE duty, just built and tested to be unlikely to see failures.

Kramer would be one , I'm not sure if Galco counts but I've not had a problem with them.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

This is aimed more at people who have used these in actual hands on hard use FOF or reality.

[Cypher]

Kramer makes (or made, not sure) a paddle holster that was issued to the Michigan State Police for years.

As I'm.sure you're aware most duty holsters made today have some type of retention device. I'm asking this because I DON'T know but can you make a retention holster out of leather (besides a thumb break)?

[Inspector71]

Before all this plastic stuff came out, Don Hume holsters was a top choice for leather holsters for LE. Moderate prices; good quality.

[Erick Gelhaus]

We all hear about the good kydex makers on PF, but I seldom hear it talked about in the leather game as to what is duty ready and vetted. I would imagine 5-Shot & J.R. Customs would be counted amongst the ranks, but who might also be building rugged vetted stuff?

Are you asking about leather holsters made for exposed carry on a duty belt? Or plain ol' leather holsters that are designed to be belt-mounted and concealed?

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

I simply mean rugged enough to where you could use it for pretty much anything, whether LE or civilian. Not an openly carried Duty rig, really any leather holsters that are vetted for hard use and could be used for Duty or other serious EDC use without a second though.

[BehindBlueI's]

I used my Red Nichols Avenger style holster through SouthNarc's ECQC as well as several years of plain clothes daily carry.

[nalesq]

I used a JRC AIWB CDA II holster for ECQC, and it appeared to have survived with no discernible loss of rigidity.

[Alpha Sierra]

really any leather holsters that are vetted for hard use and could be used for Duty or other serious EDC use without a second though.

Just about any quality custom leather holster is made with top shelf materials and quality craftsmanship. That's about as rugged as leather goods can be made.


As far as "vetting"...….who does it and what's the standard? Or is that a buzzword?

[theJanitor]

I remember SLG mentioning that the leather works well in the hands-on stuff better than kydex, for ccw. Something about when the pistol breaks free of its tension, the gun has no resistance to coming out easily and completely, but leather grabs it longer.

[M2CattleCo]

The main problem I've had over the years is the holster being too tight for a good draw.

Other than that, you have it backwards.

Kydex with loops held on with screws and little hardware are not nearly as tough as you'd think.

ESPECIALLY paddle holsters and holsters with the loop/clip/whatever on the back of the holster and not spread out like the Raven Phantom/Perun.

I used to do a demo on how on easy it was to rip Serpas, and paddle holsters off a belt. Hint: I'm 5'8", 135 and it's ain't hard.

I don't think I have enough muscle to rip even a cheapie leather pancake off a belt, and probably not a sewed on loop. QUALITY leather? Stuff is so much tougher than Kydex there's no comparison.

[Alpha Sierra]

The main problem I've had over the years is the holster being too tight for a good draw.

Other than that, you have it backwards.

Kydex with loops held on with screws and little hardware are not nearly as tough as you'd think.

ESPECIALLY paddle holsters and holsters with the loop/clip/whatever on the back of the holster and not spread out like the Raven Phantom/Perun.

I used to do a demo on how on easy it was to rip Serpas, and paddle holsters off a belt. Hint: I'm 5'8", 135 and it's ain't hard.

I don't think I have enough muscle to rip even a cheapie leather pancake off a belt, and probably not a sewed on loop. QUALITY leather? Stuff is so much tougher than Kydex there's no comparison.

Agreed

The only kydex holster designs close to leather in strength are pancakes where the belt slots are integral to the body of the holster and holster is riveted (not screwed) together.

Something like this: https://www.alabamaholster.com/product/the-flapjack/

[Jason M]

I routinely taught combatives including concealed weapon retention for several years using red guns, Kramer horsehide vertical belt scabbard/belt scabbard, with their matching horsehide belt. These classes were vigorous! Bumps, bruises, abrasions, sprained fingers and sometimes stitches for students as well as instructors, were not unusual. The belt/holster from Kramer were about as tough a concealed carry rig as any could be. They endured all the physical abuse, exposure to sweat, and abrasion that you would expect to see in that sort of full-contact mat room environment. As a comparison, a Wilderness 5 stitch and a safariland 6378 (with the belt slide combo was just as competent. The paddle attachment for the 6378 was NOT as resistant to grabs. The holster retained the pistol but the paddle would allow it the holster to be pulled up and out of the pants.

Buy either combo with confidence in their durability.

[Darth_Uno]

I like the Kirkpatrick TRC for an all-around holster. I've actually used it through parts of several classes, including FOF. https://www.kirkpatrickleather.com/product/reserve-model-trc/

[JonInWA]

Kramer. I was particularly partial to their #3 IWB, having them for numerous pistols/revolvers over the years.

Best, Jon

[RevolverRob]

Anything made out of quality horsehide or cowhide with properly sewn or solid loops will be virtually impossible to rip off of someone in an entangled fight. Leather stretches, but does not tear or break unless it is old, dry, and thin.

Think about it for a second - do leather belts fail because they break or because they stretch out and get floppy?

I would not be concerned using a Kramer, Red Nichols, Milt Sparks, or even Don Hume holster in FOF. I'm more concerned about leather holsters that mount plastic or metal clips using a screw by way of retention. I have a very nice Alessi Talon Plus with a plastic clip that is sewn into a pouch on the holster. It works great for and locks under the belt firmly, but I'm not convinced it is as sturdy as a metal clip or would hold up to a weekend long ECQC class. Which is why it is basically the holster for quick dog walks or trips to the stop and rob.

[JTQ]

I remember SLG mentioning that the leather works well in the hands-on stuff better than kydex, for ccw. Something about when the pistol breaks free of its tension, the gun has no resistance to coming out easily and completely, but leather grabs it longer.

The late Paul Gomez with a similar point beginning at about the 4:45 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF7VbYh9Qqk

[Dave T]

If a pancake holster will suit your requirements you might consider Simply Rugged. Worn with a stiff belt I can't imagine that holster failing. And, because of the pancake design, retention is surprisingly good. Too good when they are new. Some break in is required.

Dave

[runcible]

Leather being a material with give to it, relative to its thickness/depth; it provides for additional friction and purchase to the weapon's various protrusions when it is levered or torqued off-axis, relative to the intended direction of the drawstroke.

(This can also be observed by shooters as a sensation of binding if their drawstroke isn't what it optimally should be, or if there is external pressure upon either face of the holster.)

[RevolverRob]

If a pancake holster will suit your requirements you might consider Simply Rugged. Worn with a stiff belt I can't imagine that holster failing. And, because of the pancake design, retention is surprisingly good. Too good when they are new. Some break in is required.

Dave

A good leather belt holster, worn with a multiple-layer synthetic belt is pretty hard to to cause a failure in. I gave up largely on leather belts, due to their tendency to stretch and/or sag (or even the double layer ones), but a nylon webbing belt, particularly a multi-layer one, has the tensile strength of a heavy duty vehicle towstrap. Combined with a solid leather loop holster, it's pretty difficult to find a significantly failure point there that isn't due to a manufacturing defect or carelessness.

[M2CattleCo]

I agree on the webbing belts. I'm a leather guy, I make knife sheaths and do some saddle and tack repair, have my boots and belts custom made.

But when I wear a gun, it's with a Wilderness belt. Better material and no buckle to be either too tight or too loose.

[Erick Gelhaus]

I didn't test any of these in the ECQC class I took. I was still 'working' at the time, so I carried my off-duty pistol with a WML.

Of the leather or horsehide holsters I have, in terms of perceived durability, I'd be comfortable recommending: Kramer #1-1/2 IWB, Kramer Vertical Scabbard, C Rusty Sherrick Vertical High-Ride Scabbard, and 5 Shot's SME.

[KevH]

I've carried a Rusty Sherrick SIS for years as my non-uniformed duty holster in conjunction with a Milt Sparks belt. I think it, and those of similar design (Bruce Nelson-style with a thumb break), are some of the most secure out there for "soft" OWB carry.

The most secure and best in my opinion are the Safariland ALS series attached to a strong duty belt. I would not consider anything else for uniform carry.

[UNK]

http://www.c-rusty.com/

He makes standard and some unique holsters. Ive been very pleased with the work Ive received from him.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I remember SLG mentioning that the leather works well in the hands-on stuff better than kydex, for ccw. Something about when the pistol breaks free of its tension, the gun has no resistance to coming out easily and completely, but leather grabs it longer.


The late Paul Gomez with a similar point beginning at about the 4:45 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF7VbYh9Qqk

Beat me to it.




Think about it for a second - do leather belts fail because they break or because they stretch out and get floppy?

I would not be concerned using a Kramer, Red Nichols, Milt Sparks, or even Don Hume holster in FOF.

I would add Sam Andrews to the list. While not rolling around in it, I had a black McDaniel II rig. The holster was loaned out and not returned. I still have the IWB mag pouch. The 1.5" suede-lined belt was no-shit worn on an almost daily basis for better than 12 years, and only retired because it had finally shrunk to about 1.25" and the exterior was beginning to get scaly. The only maintenance it ever received was periodic dye and Kiwi polish.

While the Hume leather is perfectly serviceable, a side-by-side comparison with Kramer clearly shows which is superior...and that was new Hume : used Kramer.

I recently got a McDaniel II for my commander, and my next holster purchase will be a Red Nichols To Catch a Thief for my Hi-Power.

[jetfire]

For mass market leather, Galco makes three products that I'd recommend without hesitation. For traditional IWB, the Royal Guard and Summer Comfort are GTG, they're based off well thought out designs are well made products. For OWB, I've been using a Combat Master belt holster as my daily for the last 5 months of this deployment, and it's done everything I've needed it to do.

The thing to remember with leather holsters is that they're wear items, and will degrade with time, use, and exposure to the elements. For example my Combat Master will probably be fine for the next 5 years, but as a matter of habit I tend to replace them every two years or so just to be on the safe side.

[nalesq]

The thing to remember with leather holsters is that they're wear items, and will degrade with time, use, and exposure to the elements.

I think degradation is probably particularly accelerated with a pancake-style holster that is getting crushed repeatedly under your body with no gun to keep it in its proper shape as you are rolling around in FOF evolutions that go to the ground.

With a Kydex holster, cracks from damage due to such abuse will usually be pretty obvious. But with leather, the main thing is to make sure that the holster opening (mouth?) is not deformed, but remains properly shaped so that you can reholster without having to push the mouth open by rooting around with the muzzle.

For this reason, if one did a lot of FOF training involving handguns (obviously with a sims gun or other training simulant), it would probably be wise to do so with a dedicated “training” holster, rather than risk damaging the holster you may need to depend on for keeps.



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[Maple Syrup Actual]

I've taken an SME and a Watson special through pretty harsh FOF and they were both unscathed afterwards. The temptation to run my Alessi Bodyguard in FOF is real but I probably never will. Or will I? Actually that would be a fun experiment, even though I think we could all predict how it would end.

I have personally ripped kydex holsters off people, twice by breaking belt loops and one I got a hold of the butt of a blue gun and wrenched it towards me and the holster body split. It's hard for me to imagine doing that to almost any decent piece of leather.

That said I do not hesitate to take my Dark Star stuff to ECQC. I think my Todd Green orange special has been through twice and it looks new and has had no issues. My Clinch Pick also rides in a Dark Star sheath and I have no concerns about it breaking. QUALITY kydex I think can keep up with leather pretty well but in general, I would take almost any sturdy leather rig and I would only take a handful of kydex holsters into FOF.

[jetfire]

That said I do not hesitate to take my Dark Star stuff to ECQC.

I did ECQC with a G17 AIWB holster from DSG and it was fine, except for when a cave troll fell directly on top of me and put his entire weight on the gun/holster combo. The resulting bruise was pretty spectacular. But that also would have happened with any gun/holster combo in that position.

[M2CattleCo]

Injection molded belt loops are the best thing that ever happened to Kydex holsters.

It also seems the stuff they use now is better than 10+ years ago. Or maybe the molding method is easier on the material.

Back in the day cracked Kydex was not uncommon.

Fun tip: You can make a cracked kydex get by patching it with Barge Cement and those big USPS Kevlar envelopes. DO NOT patch the inside of the holster.

[JodyH]

Highnoon Holsters (https://www.highnoonholsters.com/) has always performed for me, I only buy the horsehide versions because horsehide holds its shape better, holds up to sweat better and is more comfortable against the skin than cow in my experience. Natural finish horsehide also blends in very well with my khaki Duluth pants and khaki belt for the rare occasions I'm only lazily concealed. One caveat is their sweat shield design sucks, so I only buy their non-sweat shield versions.
I used a Hideaway (horsehide w/clip) for four years of daily AIWB carry along with 2 ECQC classes and plenty of mixed combatives training in the gym. It's still serviceable but looks nasty after all that sweat, blood and gun oil.
I'm currently using both a "Tomahawk" at 3:30 OWB and a "Bare Necessity" 3:30 IWB for my Glock 26 (both in horsehide) and they're holding up great.
I have a "Skyhigh" (horsehide) on order for my Glock 19 for when I ride my dual sport motorcycle and want a concealable OWB with retention.

[JTQ]

Highnoon Holsters (https://www.highnoonholsters.com/) has always performed for me, ... One caveat is their sweat shield design sucks, so I only buy their non-sweat shield versions.
I agree, they make a solid product, but their sweat shield is much too tall for my tastes.

[MDFA]

Mllt Sparks or Mitch Rosen Holster with a Graith Specialist or similar belt in my experience.

[medmo]

Kramer makes (or made, not sure) a paddle holster that was issued to the Michigan State Police for years.

Kramer still makes the MSP Paddle Holster. It’s my factory OWB holster. Comfy all day carry and easy off/on. Just received one Christmas Eve for a project Ruger Security Six I picked up in October. Milt Sparks is definitely top quality also based on my experience.