Surefire 6P Legos

[NH Shooter]

Thanks to Sidheshooter I'm spending yet more $$ on flashlights... ;-/

He posted this link to a smokin' hot deal on the Surefire 6P (https://tacticalsportsgear.com/collections/flashlights/products/surefire-6p-bk-flashlight), the light that started it all (Lego lights, that is). For $34.00 including shipping I couldn't resist, and anyone who wants to build a quality light to their liking should grab one too.

Since the 6P comes standard with the Z41 twisty tailcap (button momentary only, twist for constant-on), I decided to build a budget fightin' light using this drop-in module (https://www.ebay.com/itm/332793524647). It's rated at 560 lumens and due to the emitter used and the polished reflector, should produce a tightly-focused beam with plentiful candela. Though there is no candela rating on this drop-in, my WAG is that it should produce 12,000 to 15,000 candela - I'll get a better feel for this when I compare it to my other lights with known ratings.

For $73.99 (all free shipping), this could be a fight light bargain if the drop-in delivers the way I think it will. I'll report back with photos and a full evaluation.

https://i.ibb.co/rktw3VH/SF6P-1.jpg

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

These are my favorite lights as is, never tried LED but Malkoff makes some nice looking options with warmer than standard tints. I don't like the hyper blue of most LED's...

[NH Shooter]

These are my favorite lights as is, never tried LED but Malkoff makes some nice looking options with warmer than standard tints. I don't like the hyper blue of most LED's...

Malkoff makes top-quality 6P drop-ins (https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/surefire-drop-ins-for-6p-g2-c2-etc-6-9-volts) that can be used with 100% confidence. Additionally, the beam patterns are superb (little-to-no artifacts in the beam, such as rings). I have a collection of these drop-ins and they are all excellent.

Another point worth mentioning is that all Malkoff drop-ins can be run with CR123A batteries with zero issues. There are other companies offering 6P drop-ins with much higher output (https://illuminationgear.com/t/p60p61-lamp-modules), but most are risky to use with CR123A batteries due to high current draw. Additionally, I have some doubts in terms of reliability and durability, but without any first-hand experience with these modules its only intuitive speculation. The EDC Plus modules (https://www.edcplus.com/p60-dropins-c-3_18/) do not appear to be over-driven and at least as far as the photos and description goes, seem to be constructed reasonably well. If durability and reliability are the top priorities though, the Malkoff units remain at the top of the heap.

Beyond color temperature, there is something called the Color Rendering Index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index) (CRI). The higher the CRI number, the more accurately colors will be rendered, which is important in applications such as medical examination, crime scene investigation, etc. Some hidden gems - Malkoff high CRI drop-ins (https://www.illumn.com/flashlights/malkoff-devices.html?___store=default). These are built by Gene as an exclusive to Illumn.com featuring the Nichia 219B emitter with a CRI rating of 95. I have one of these and though they are lower in output, colors are rendered much more accurately.

The old Surefire 6P will accept any of these modules, making it perhaps the most Lego-able host available.

[revchuck38]

I had a 6P about 15-20 years ago and liked it but it somehow disappeared. My EDC flashlight is one of those Streamlight USB-rechargeable ones which fits easily in my pocket, so I don't need another light. But for 34 bucks I ordered another 6P because, well, reasons. :rolleyes: I'm not sure I'll upgrade it, but we'll see.

[NH Shooter]

The Surefire 6P Original and EDC Plus drop-in module (https://www.edcplus.com/p60-dropins-c-3_18/edc-plus-x60lt-p60-xpl-hi-v2-1-mode-cool-white-p-240.html) arrived today. I immediately installed the module in the flashlight, loaded it with a freshly-charged 16650 2500mAh protected cell and made some initial indoor comparisons to the M61T (https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/malkoff-mdx22-3-m61t-throw-head) (which resides on my 1187) and my MD3-M91T (https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/large-malkoff-led-flashlights/products/m91t-md3) .

Compared to the M61T (480 lumens/12,000 lux) the EDC module produces a much brighter but somewhat smaller hot spot. Due to the reflector design, the EDC module produces a perfectly circular hot spot compared to the more irregular squarish shape of the M61T hot spot due to the use of a TIR lens.

Compared to the M91T, I would estimate by visual reference that the EDC Plus hot spot is at least as bright as the M91T, but smaller. The higher lumen capacity of the M91T is evident and it obviously puts out a greater quantity of light, but in the center of the beam they appear equally bright.

Though EDC Plus module's hot spot is smaller, it is certainly seems large enough for defensive use (about 24 inches in diameter at 20 feet) and is blinding bright, I would estimate in the 20,000 candela range. The spill is not nearly as wide as either the M61T or M91T, in fact it's noticeably smaller than a Malkoff M61 reflector module, but appears about the same in brightness. The deep polished reflector does a really good job of focusing the 560 lumens that are produced on a single Li-ion cell.

I'll be outdoors with it tonight to do a better evaluation and will post some photos this weekend.

[revchuck38]

NH Shooter - I just got my 6P original in and while I still like the construction, it's not as blindingly bright as it was 20 years ago. :rolleyes: If you could, would you include comparison photos with the Malkoff drop-in "lower" module? I know it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but I'd like to see the difference. Thanks!

[NH Shooter]

NH Shooter - I just got my 6P original in and while I still like the construction, it's not as blindingly bright as it was 20 years ago. :rolleyes: If you could, would you include comparison photos with the Malkoff drop-in "lower" module? I know it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but I'd like to see the difference. Thanks!

I will try to grab some beam shots this weekend.

I spent some time with the light outdoors last night and remain pleased with the performance-to-cost ratio. In fact, I would in no way feel "under-gunned" using this light for serious use. It's actually perfect for self-defense use: the 6P host can take a beating, the beam pattern and intensity of the drop-in is perfect for the application. Assuming no reliability issues with the drop-in (I'm not expecting any), I can recommend this Lego-build for use as a fight light. I would take it any day, without hesitation over any Chinese import "tactical" light.

I (and others) were fortunate to find the new 6P host for only $34.00, and in combination with the EDC Plus drop-in (https://www.edcplus.com/p60-dropins-c-3_18/edc-plus-x60lt-p60-xpl-hi-v2-1-mode-cool-white-p-240.html) for $39.99, makes this perhaps the biggest bang for a fight light bargain out there. But...the vendor sold out of the 6P and without knowing whether it will be available again for that price, the calculus shifts a little. The 6P usually goes for around $50 to $60 on ebay, which would bring the cost up to around $100.00. It's still a great buy even at that price, but with the readily available discount codes for Malkoff, you can buy a MD2-M61HOT (https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/malkoff-mid-sized-led-flashlights/products/m61hot-md2) for around $120.00, which outperforms this Lego build by more than enough to justify the extra twenty bucks.

Conclusions


If you already have a 6P sitting round collecting dust, this EDC Plus drop-in (https://www.edcplus.com/p60-dropins-c-3_18/edc-plus-x60lt-p60-xpl-hi-v2-1-mode-cool-white-p-240.html) is an excellent option for making the old 6P extraordinarily useful as a defensive-use light
If you can get hold of a new (or lightly used) 6P for under $50, this remains IMO a cost-effective option
This Lego build checks all the fight-light boxes: (1) a high-quality host with a long track record of reliability and durability; (2) single-mode operation with a tightly-focused, blazingly bright beam and (3) a simple yet effective UI for you need all the lumens right now!

I like it. I didn't need another fight-light, but the $74 investment for a brand new, high quality and highly effective defensive light made it a no-brainer addition to my collection.

I will post some photos this weekend!

[NH Shooter]

https://i.ibb.co/w69tvW9/6p-1.jpg
Photo 1 - The SF 6P fits the hand nicely. Shown with a Surefire Z59 tailcap, Solarforce lanyard ring and DIY finger lanyard.



https://i.ibb.co/18bRNf9/6p-2.jpg
Photo 2 - The 6P body has aggressive knurling which makes it easy to hold on to.



https://i.ibb.co/thDHGN1/6p-3.jpg
Photo 3 - This EDC Plus module (https://www.edcplus.com/p60-dropins-c-3_18/edc-plus-x60lt-p60-xpl-hi-v2-1-mode-cool-white-p-240.html) features a deep, highly polished reflector which is integral with the aluminum body.



https://i.ibb.co/7NRqFVL/6p-4.jpg
Photo 4 - My defensive/fight-light roundup. From L - R: Malkoff Bodyguard v.2 head (https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/mdc-bodyguard-v2-head) on an unshroudled 1-CR123 body (https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/mdc-shroudless-123-body), the 6P Lego and a Malkoff MD3 (https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/md3-body-and-switch)-M91T (https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/large-malkoff-led-flashlights/products/m91t-md3) with Surefire tailcap.


Will post beam shots this evening.

[SiriusBlunder]

Thanks, NH Shooter (and Sidheshooter).

Your posts have inspired me to do a 6P lego build.

My 6P arrived Thursday (ordered on Black Friday) so great service from Tactical Sports Gear. (I'm wondering if they sold all their inventory to PFer's).

My EDC+ drop-in is scheduled to arrive Tuesday.

I'm now looking for pocket clips as nothing I have fit.

I came across https://www.solarforceflashlight-sales.com/ while researching last night. Looks like that's the same brand you are using for a lanyard ring. Any experience ordering direct from that website? Looks like it ships from Hong Kong and just leery of that site being a scam. If no experience, do you have a recommended pocket clip/site that will fit the 6P?

TIA.

[Totem Polar]

These are my favorite lights as is, never tried LED but Malkoff makes some nice looking options with warmer than standard tints. I don't like the hyper blue of most LED's...

I’m with you. I love the “warm" tint Malkoff drop-ins (eg. M61WL); just a slight touch warmer than the original incandescent, IMO.




NH Shooter - I just got my 6P original in and while I still like the construction, it's not as blindingly bright as it was 20 years ago. :rolleyes: If you could, would you include comparison photos with the Malkoff drop-in "lower" module? I know it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but I'd like to see the difference. Thanks!

I’m not the expert that NH Shooter is, but I will say that I really like the M61WL (warm tint, low output).

Great quasi-incandescent tint, 5+hrs on 2 123s, and it’s got surprising real-world horsepower. These things are rated at 200lum, but the throw and spill are both considerable; it appears noticeably brighter than my aviator (190 lum, IIRC) and it flat out lights up the world a lot cleaner, brighter, and hotter than my little sidekick USB light on high—and that light is ostensibly 300lumens on high. The reflector size, design, throw and spill all matter, and those Malkoff drop-ins are pretty squared away for efficiency when you’re actually trying to look at things in the night. JMO.

I know that 200 lumens sounds like a light you got from the bottom of a cracker jack box, by today’s standards, but the Malkoff drop-in punches way above it’s stated weight.

[revchuck38]

Sidheshooter - That's what I wanted to find out, and why I asked for the photos. I used my Microstream in a low/no-light class a couple of months ago and its 250 lumens was plenty, and that was with a relatively narrow beam. More spill with the about the same power would be nice. The longer run time is nice, too.

[Duelist]

Thanks, NH Shooter (and Sidheshooter).

Your posts have inspired me to do a 6P lego build.

My 6P arrived Thursday (ordered on Black Friday) so great service from Tactical Sports Gear. (I'm wondering if they sold all their inventory to PFer's).

My EDC+ drop-in is scheduled to arrive Tuesday.

I'm now looking for pocket clips as nothing I have fit.

I came across https://www.solarforceflashlight-sales.com/ while researching last night. Looks like that's the same brand you are using for a lanyard ring. Any experience ordering direct from that website? Looks like it ships from Hong Kong and just leery of that site being a scam. If no experience, do you have a recommended pocket clip/site that will fit the 6P?

TIA.

My last 6P LEGO, I put a Thyrm 2.0 pocket clip/breakaway finger ring on at the recommendation of Tamara, and it was great. I have misplaced it, so I got a brand new 6P on this same sale, and it and several other lights I have gotten in the interim will be receiving Thyrms as well.

[Totem Polar]

I think P-F did indeed break the tactical sports gear website sale. :)

[NH Shooter]

Thanks, NH Shooter (and Sidheshooter).
I'm now looking for pocket clips as nothing I have fit.


These work nicely, place a Danco #30 O-ring under the clip (between the clip and flashlight body) to hold it tight - https://darksucks.com/collections/titanium-pocket-clips-1/products/surefire-titanium-clip

[NH Shooter]

I think P-F did indeed break the tactical sports gear website sale. :)

Now we need photos of all the P-F 6P Legos!

[NH Shooter]

Distance to target is 21 feet. Manual exposure maintained for each shot.
Canon 50D DSLR, 17-40/4L lens on tripod.

https://i.ibb.co/f1WwY34/beamshot6p.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/0JY28QP/beamshotm91t.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/dWHJPb8/beamshot6plego.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/XkBvgvf/beamshotmbgv2.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/RPYgHW1/beamshotm61t.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/WK958Mc/beamshothds.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/SxM6wbh/beamshotcomposite.jpg


Known specs;

Bodyguard v.2 - 1,000 lumens/12,000 lux
MD3-M91T - 740 lumens/19,000 lux
MD2-M61T - 480 lumens/12,000 lux
Hound Dog Super - 1,700 lumens/75,000 lux

Based on the results of these beam shots, it looks like the EDC Plus drop-in is producing its advertised 560 lumens, and an estimated 17,000 candela. In terms of throw and center-beam intensity, its nearly a match for the formidable MD3-M91T, but does cover as much area with its hot spot.

In actual use it fairs well, perhaps better than these photos depict. Drawing only 1.7 amps, it has an estimated runtime of about 1.5 hours on a 16650 2500mAh cell. All things considered, it is a worthy upgrade for the venerable 6P and delivers the beam intensity to serve as a potent fight light.

[blues]

Great job, NH. I'm very impressed with the Bodyguard v.2 in your images. Glad I have both versions.

[revchuck38]

NH Shooter - Can you give a SWAG on run time for the 6P Lego using CR123s? I don't see myself getting into rechargeable cells at this point.

[NH Shooter]

NH Shooter - Can you give a SWAG on run time for the 6P Lego using CR123s? I don't see myself getting into rechargeable cells at this point.

Just over an hour would be my guess.

[Totem Polar]

May as well throw my .02 and 5k words. Here's the Surefire handhelds that I like (you can see the first of the 6Ps next to the last of them in one pic, as an interesting size comparo). On the left of the 5 lights is the "tactical" light that started it all, the original 6P ("P" stood for "pushbutton" incidentally). My dad got me that for my birthday while I was still in college. I can't remember whether I got that from him in 90 or 91, but they were pretty much the hotness at the time. You can see that it's a bit smaller (lighter too) and has mellowed into some of that purple hue that aluminum will age into over decades. It has the M61WL in it. The next one is the $34 special from tactical sports. Then the A2 Aviator, original recipe E1B backup, and the rechargeable sidekick.



Then three shots of my studio outbuilding from my porch: the sidekick on high (300 Lumens, covers a good bit of area, but lacking detail and focus) then the original 6P (focussed and detailed, but less coverage) and finally the Malkoff warm 200 lumen drop-in in 'old purple (almost as much coverage/flood/spill as the sidekick, but WAY better spot and detail. Clearly the best of the bunch, even through my lame phone camera, and even more so in real life). Point of aim was the outlet plate for all three shots, BTW.

I really like that M61WL. The better visuals are enough reason to spring for the drop-in, IMHO, even before you consider more than quadrupling the runtime on a pair of CR123s over the original 6P.

[NH Shooter]

Great job, NH. I'm very impressed with the Bodyguard v.2 in your images. Glad I have both versions.

Thanks blues! The Bodyguard is a lot of light in a pocketable package, never fails to impress when I light it up. It certainly has the broadest spill of the group with enough candela to be an effective fight light within pistol fighting distances.

The light I forgot last night is the M91B, which is also impressive with its coverage. I'm going grab a beam shot of that this evening.

[awp_101]

I wish I'd caught that 6P sale. I stumbled into a deal on a 9P earlier this year and dropped in a Malkoff head with a clicky tail cap. I like it so much it's become my nightstand flashlight.

[Lost River]

https://i.imgur.com/q4cF44P.jpg


My old 6P has been used pretty hard. Been on duty belts, mounted on a couple rifles, and stuck in pockets. They are pretty solid lights.

Seen better days now (like me) but it keeps working, with hardware upgrades (again like me).:rolleyes:

[csheehy]

Have one of the original Laser Products 6P lights since around 1988-89. It rides on the duty belt with a 120 lm drop in
I got about 10 years ago-poss a Malkoff. Definitely interested in bumping up the output, so will check out the unit linked above....but would really like to find a clicky tailcap.

Anyone have a source? Aftermarket fine, haven’t been able to find a Z59 anywhere, including ebay.

TIA

[NH Shooter]

Have one of the original Laser Products 6P lights since around 1988-89. It rides on the duty belt with a 120 lm drop in
I got about 10 years ago-poss a Malkoff. Definitely interested in bumping up the output, so will check out the unit linked above....but would really like to find a clicky tailcap.

Anyone have a source? Aftermarket fine, haven’t been able to find a Z59 anywhere, including ebay.

TIA

Yes, those Z59 tailcaps are tough to find. FWIW, Malkoff tailcaps (McClicky) work fine on a 6P.

https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/malkoff-tricap-tailcap-switch-for-md2-md3-or-md4

https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/tailcap-switch-for-md2-md3-or-md4

[csheehy]

Thanks, NH Shooter. Have back-in-stock notifications set for both items...exactly what I was looking for.

[Totem Polar]

My old 6P has been used pretty hard. Been on duty belts, mounted on a couple rifles, and stuck in pockets. They are pretty solid lights.

Seen better days now (like me) but it keeps working, with hardware upgrades (again like me).:rolleyes:

Damn, bro, that thing looks like Darth Vader at the end when they take off his mask. More aftermarket than original. :D

Mine, due to leaps forward in output with other models, spent the last 2 decades in the safe, being used for 60-120 seconds at a time to find a knife or GI-spec 1911 mags and the like. Even the original tailcap (branded "laser products") rubber is still pliable and working after 3 decades. The Malkoff drop-in makes me feel like the flashlight version of the guy with a clean C3 Vette with a new LS motor under the hood.

NH Shooter, good thread so far. Thanks for all the info.

[Duelist]

Damn, bro, that thing looks like Darth Vader at the end when they take off his mask. More aftermarket than original. :D

Mine, due to leaps forward in output with other models, spent the last 2 decades in the safe, being used for 60-120 seconds at a time to find a knife or GI-spec 1911 mags and the like. Even the original tailcap (branded "laser products") rubber is still pliable and working after 3 decades. The Malkoff drop-in makes me feel like the flashlight version of the guy with a clean C3 Vette with a new LS motor under the hood.

NH Shooter, good thread so far. Thanks for all the info.

Blink. I could *put a flashlight inside my safe*. Damn. There’s a scar on my finger that would not be there had I put a flashlight in my safe and used it when rummaging about.

What a simple thing.

[Totem Polar]

Blink. I could *put a flashlight inside my safe*. Damn. There’s a scar on my finger that would not be there had I put a flashlight in my safe and used it when rummaging about.

What a simple thing.

If you don’t have a warm tint, castoff, hipster light upfront/top shelf of your safe specifically for puttering duty, you’re doing "gun culture" wrong.

;)

[peterb]

Blink. I could *put a flashlight inside my safe*. Damn. There’s a scar on my finger that would not be there had I put a flashlight in my safe and used it when rummaging about.

What a simple thing.

There are a lot of battery LED lights designed for closets or cabinets, including ones that will come on when you open the door. They'd be easy to stick inside the safe.

[Duelist]

There are a lot of battery LED lights designed for closets or cabinets, including ones that will come on when you open the door. They'd be easy to stick inside the safe.

Truth. But I own a stack of flashlights. I will just stick one in the safe the next time I open it, and one day probably grab a specialized light setup for it.

[Totem Polar]

There are a lot of battery LED lights designed for closets or cabinets, including ones that will come on when you open the door. They'd be easy to stick inside the safe.

I have a switchable light in my safe; only turned it on once. That’s how long it took me to figure out that it didn’t work for my application, namely, peering around deep piles of vintage pump .22s and handgun miscellania to find the using kit. Gotta be a hand-held, and more is better. :D

Someone with a much larger safe, with a much better signal-to-noise ratio crammed inside it may well have different needs. :D

[peterb]

Deleted.

[NH Shooter]

Installed a Ti-coated stainless steel bezel ring (https://www.ebay.com/itm/232594641945) on my 6P Lego;

https://i.ibb.co/c6ghcn0/6p-5.jpg

[revchuck38]

Started the Lego-ization of my 6P - Malkoff M61L module on the way.

[Duelist]

45852

Malkoff M61N, about 400 lumens. A bit warmer tint than other Cree LEDs I’ve used, actually pretty close to the incandescent head, but nearly as bright as my 600 lumen 6P Fury Pro, without the fiddly two stage switch.

[Totem Polar]

45852

Malkoff M61N, about 400 lumens. A bit warmer tint than other Cree LEDs I’ve used, actually pretty close to the incandescent head, but nearly as bright as my 600 lumen 6P Fury Pro, without the fiddly two stage switch.

I have a spare M61N that I put in the 34 dollar special after taking the comparo shots, above. If I’m being honest, the neutral tint is the best all-around head, IMO, though I still like the bright sepia world of the warm versions because I hate overly blue led light as a rule.

At any rate, my daily is the old 6P with the warm low (approx 200 lumen) and the 34 dollar one with the spare 61N is on the nightstand. That’s a hell of a light for the dough.

[Duelist]

I have a spare M61N that I put in the 34 dollar special after taking the comparo shots, above. If I’m being honest, the neutral tint is the best all-around head, IMO, though I still like the bright sepia world of the warm versions because I hate overly blue led light as a rule.

At any rate, my daily is the old 6P with the warm low (approx 200 lumen) and the 34 dollar one with the spare 61N is on the nightstand. That’s a hell of a light for the dough.

This is my first Malkoff purchase. I like it.

[NH Shooter]

The Malkoff drop-ins are a superb way to update a 6P.

[NH Shooter]

I purchased another of the EDC Plus drop-in to use with a WML on my 1187 (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?39733-And-then-there-was-one&p=966477&viewfull=1#post966477). This one did a lot better in the tint lottery.

The first one is certainly cool, but well within expectations for a 6200K LED. It now resides in the WML on my 1187. The second one has a decidedly warmer tint without the slight yellow tinge in the middle of the hotspot that the first one exhibits. In fact, its tint is actually very nice, I would say more around 5000K, that is more consistent to the outer edges of the spill.

Its all part of the fun of the tint lottery, knowing that you could buy ten samples of the same drop-in and none would exactly match another. Sometimes you lose the tint lottery, sometimes you win. This latest one is definitely a winner, making my 6P Lego all the more enjoyable to use!

[revchuck38]

The Malkoff drop-ins are a superb way to update a 6P.

Mine arrived today. Chuckie like. :)

[vcdgrips]

Put my Malkoff M61 in today into the early 90s 6P. It certainly brighter than the 250 lumens quark light I EDC. Ordered Fri am, received Mon PM. Shipped within a few hours of of order and updated every step of the way.

I would be interested to see a side by side with the 600 lumen single output G2. I suspect it is quite close to the eye.

[GearFondler]

Just ordered an M91B for my 9P to give it a new life... 1000 lumens should make it formidable again.
Now I need some 17500's to run it for free.

[NH Shooter]

Looks like these are back in stock for $34 - https://tacticalsportsgear.com/collections/flashlights/products/surefire-6p-bk-flashlight

[vcdgrips]

Done. I will put one up on the shelf at 34.00 shipped. I guess I better order another M61 as well. This thread is costing me money.

DB

[flyrodr]

Looks like these are back in stock for $34 -

Got one! Thanks!!

[Shoresy]

Looks like these are back in stock for $34 - https://tacticalsportsgear.com/collections/flashlights/products/surefire-6p-bk-flashlight

Thanks for the heads up. Grabbed a few. :cool:

[Cool Breeze]

Looks like these are back in stock for $34 - https://tacticalsportsgear.com/collections/flashlights/products/surefire-6p-bk-flashlight

Thanks for the update with these. Quick question. With the cost of buying one of these plus a new head unit - is there anything you can get near that price point that is better than this? I haven't read this thread in a few weeks so I don't really remember all of the options but if memory serves me correctly, the max head unit you can get is approx 400 lumens.

[Totem Polar]

Thanks for the update with these. Quick question. With the cost of buying one of these plus a new head unit - is there anything you can get near that price point that is better than this? I haven't read this thread in a few weeks so I don't really remember all of the options but if memory serves me correctly, the max head unit you can get is approx 400 lumens.

The standard M61 is 450, IIRC, on paper... in actuality, they hit harder than that in the real world. JMO.

About all I know is: my ‘90 6P is still going strong, while I have a drawer with Olight, streamlight, pelican, S&W, et al. castoffs with tailcaps that crapped out within a couple of years. Again, JMO.

[Cool Breeze]

The standard M61 is 450, IIRC, on paper... in actuality, they hit harder than that in the real world. JMO.

About all I know is: my ‘90 6P is still going strong, while I have a drawer with Olight, streamlight, pelican, S&W, et al. castoffs with tailcaps that crapped out within a couple of years. Again, JMO.Fair point on all accounts. I should definitely be more specific. I meant to say a durable "fight worthy" light as I am sure there are a lot of task lights out there with 8+ modes that could fit that category that I am not interested in. I view the 6p as a fighting light so was interested in price for price if there was something better in the same category. I currently have a Steamlight 2LX which seems similar @ 500 lumens for $60. The 6P Lego would be a little more price wise.

[Totem Polar]

Time to ping NH Shooter again...

:D

[NH Shooter]

IMO, the 6P Lego approach offers the following advantages;


The 6P host has an undisputed track record of reliability and being able to survive the rigors of LE/mil use (zero speculation there)
Simple UI with single mode operation, momentary-only Z41 tailcap (perfect for a fight light)
Large selection of quality drop-ins available

Having now spent some time with my 6P Lego, and specifically the EDC Plus drop-in (https://www.edcplus.com/p60-dropins-c-3_18/edc-plus-x60lt-p60-xpl-hi-v2-1-mode-cool-white-p-240.html) I used, I remain impressed with the combo for this application. A few observations;


The candela/lux of the center hot spot is plenty bright, with excellent reach. In use it seems equal to the MD3-M91T in this regard, though the M91T does have a bit more. The only light in my collection that obviously outperforms it in actual use is the Hound Dog Super.

The beam pattern, though narrow compared to my other lights, is actually very useful. The small yet really well defined hot spot provides plenty of reach and blinding brightness, while the spill provides more than enough light for target identification. In use what I'm discovering is that I can illuminate an object with just the spill (within pistol fighting distances) in a way that would not be construed as confrontational, but if needed I could quickly "get in the face" of an assailant with the blinding hot spot.

The 6P host has excellent knurling and feels good in the hand.

This drop-in works just fine on a single 16650 Li-ion cell, with an estimated runtime of about 90 minutes

My take-away is that for a fight light, this 6P Lego is definitely good to go.

PS - I purchased a second of these drop-ins for the 3P clone Lego I'm using as a WML on my 1187. The well defined hot spot covers about 24 inches at 20 feet, which seems quite useful for potential POA purposes;

https://i.ibb.co/r22WjDZ/1187wml-2.jpg

[Cool Breeze]

The candela/lux of the center hot spot is plenty bright, with excellent reach. In use it seems equal to the MD3-M91T in this regard, though the M91T does have a bit more. The only light in my collection that obviously outperforms it in actual use is the Hound Dog Super.


Damn that is saying a lot. The M91T did awesome in your 6 light shootout! 19k lux!

[NH Shooter]

Damn that is saying a lot. The M91T did awesome in your 6 light shootout! 19k lux!

Compared to the 12k lux Bodyguard v.2 and the 19k lux M91T, it's much closer to the M91T. If I had to take a swag, it would be around 17,000 to 18,000 lux.

[Norville]

I’m a huge fan of the anodized Surefire C2, but this is too good a deal to pass up.

Another great source of drop ins, he used to build and sell them on CPF, now he has an actual website that looks like it was built in the 90s:

https://www.customlites.com/category.sc?categoryId=32

[csheehy]

Have one of the original Laser Products 6P lights since around 1988-89. It rides on the duty belt with a 120 lm drop in
I got about 10 years ago-poss a Malkoff. Definitely interested in bumping up the output, so will check out the unit linked above....but would really like to find a clicky tailcap.

Anyone have a source? Aftermarket fine, haven’t been able to find a Z59 anywhere, including ebay.

TIA

So, not to hijack the thread, but wanted to put in a good word for customer service at Malkoff.

I ordered a clicky tail cap for my "vintage" 6P, which arrrived promptly. Unfortunately, it didn't work. Emailed the company to set up a return and received a reply from Gene Malkoff himself.
He arranged to have another shipped out in case the first one was defective, and he included a postage paid return slip for the first tail cap. In the meantime, I bought one of the Tactical Gear bargain 6Ps.

Second tail cap arrived, and still no joy on the original light.

BUT: both worked on the new light, which has a fractionally longer body than the 80's vintage one, so some compatibility issue with the body of the older light. So the older
light will remain as is, and I can promise the new light will be getting a Malkoff LED real soon.

Anyway, big thanks to Mr. Malkoff and his customer service.

CJS

[awp_101]

PS - I purchased a second of these drop-ins for the 3P clone Lego I'm using as a WML on my 1187. The well defined hot spot covers about 24 inches at 20 feet, which seems quite useful for potential POA purposes
Is the 3P no longer in production? I like the idea of using one for a WML unless the 6P makes more sense?

[NH Shooter]

The Surefire 3P is no more, other than finding one on ebay. Even clones are also hard to find now.

Nothing wrong with using a 6P other than the additional length.

[awp_101]

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for a 3P as well as a good KeyMod mount for the 6P just in case.

[NH Shooter]

First, a HUGE shout-out to 5280CJ for paying-forward to me a box of older Surefire lights and parts that he no longer wanted. Thank-you!

In that box was an old incandescent Surefire Z2 Combat Light in very nice condition. A variant of the 6P, the light was all original including the 60-lumen P60 incandescent light module and early-generation Z44 bezel with Lexan window. I was always intrigued with this style light from Surefire but never had a chance to check one out.

I was not a fan of the Rogers-Surefire technique (https://www.theboxotruth.com/low-light-essentials-13-training-hand-held-light-the-rogers-technique/) as it never felt right to me, so I always resorted to the Harries technique when shooting "two-handed." A little experimentation with the Z2 was a revelation: to make the best use of the Rogers-Surefire technique one must use a light designed from the ground up for a "cigar" hold. I quickly realized how well the technique works for me with the Z2, so I did some updating to the light.

First I installed the EDC Plus LED module (560 lumens/18,000 candela) that I had been using in my 6P. I also installed a new generation Z44 bezel with glass window and black Ti-coated bezel ring.

Next, I installed a Solarforce lanyard ring and one on my DIY finger lanyards for retaining the light while using both hands for reloads, clearing malfunctions, etc.

Along with a little bit of spit and polish, here's the old Z2 after some modernization;

https://i.ibb.co/Kb79rQN/z2-1.jpg


One of the drawbacks to the design of this light is that most light carriers designed for the straight-body 6P do not work well with it. Summoning my Google Fu, I found a source for a kydex carrier designed for the Surefire combat lights (including the older Z2) - https://www.daranichtactical.com/category_s/1856.htm. Order placed.

Thanks again to 5280CJ, this old Z2 will once again see regular use!

[GyroF-16]

Well, once again, P-F has cost me money...

Didn’t need another flashlight, but couldn’t resist a good $74 light.

In informal testing, I’m really impressed with the brightness and the throw of this light.
I used it to scan the meadow behind our house for coyotes when taking the dog out on two different nights. I compared it to two of my favorite lights for this task, a Nightcore SRT6 with variable output, and my SureFire EDCL2-T. Both are rated at around 1000 lumens at max output.
I was very pleased with the 6P Lego- the hotspot is so tightly concentrated that the throw is equivalent to both 1000-lumen lights when illuminating individual trees. The other two lights have better “spill” (the EDCL2-T is almost uniform across the whole illuminated area), but this LEGO light does a great job of putting a LOT of light on what you’re interested in, out to at least 200 yds.

Thanks, guys - it was money well spent.


Thanks to Sidheshooter I'm spending yet more $$ on flashlights... ;-/

He posted this link to a smokin' hot deal on the Surefire 6P (https://tacticalsportsgear.com/collections/flashlights/products/surefire-6p-bk-flashlight), the light that started it all (Lego lights, that is). For $34.00 including shipping I couldn't resist, and anyone who wants to build a quality light to their liking should grab one too.

Since the 6P comes standard with the Z41 twisty tailcap (button momentary only, twist for constant-on), I decided to build a budget fightin' light using this drop-in module (https://www.ebay.com/itm/332793524647). It's rated at 560 lumens and due to the emitter used and the polished reflector, should produce a tightly-focused beam with plentiful candela. Though there is no candela rating on this drop-in, my WAG is that it should produce 12,000 to 15,000 candela - I'll get a better feel for this when I compare it to my other lights with known ratings.

For $73.99 (all free shipping), this could be a fight light bargain if the drop-in delivers the way I think it will. I'll report back with photos and a full evaluation.

https://i.ibb.co/rktw3VH/SF6P-1.jpg

[NH Shooter]

GyroF-16 thanks for your feedback!

I too am taking a liking to this drop-in. The center hot spot is tight and well-defined from the uniform spill area. The hot spot certainly has enough luminous intensity to cause flash blindness in a self defense situation. What I find so useful with the beam pattern is that the spill light is more than bright (and inform) enough to use for general lighting without being overbearing, and simply getting the much brighter hot spot in the face of an aggressor is a simple task. I need to take another beam shot to better illustrate that.

I'm using this module in the WML on my 1187, one in a Surefire Z2 Combat Light and I just ordered a third one to put back in my 6P.

[Old Man Winter]

NH Shooter - thanks for the info. Very impressed with the drop in you mentioned. It's a solid upgrade for the old 6P and turns it into an excellent light for rural use.

[SiriusBlunder]

It took a month for my https://www.solarforceflashlight-sales.com/ pocket clip to arrive form HK. Not complaining based on the price.

I'm going to start carrying my 6P with EDC+ drop as a 2nd tactical light to get a feel for durability.

Comparing the EDC+ drop in to known 15K and 21K candela lights, I think 17-18K is a great estimate. Mine is much warmer than I anticipated.

In summary, I'm really excited about this build and hope it works out as I love the Surefire 6P tailcap interface.

Thanks NH Shooter and Sidheshooter!

46896

[NH Shooter]

I now have three of these EDC+ drop-ins and as expected, the beam pattern is very consistent. I do notice a difference in color temperature between the three, ranging from what I would estimate from around 5000K to 6500K.

An issue I found that others need to be aware of is that the shiny LED "pill" on the rear of the module screws into the large aluminum reflector. All of mine have come loose from installing/removing the drop-ins in various lights. I resolved the issue by removing the pill, placing a tiny drop of Loctite on the reflector threads and tightening the pill into the reflector by hand as tight as possible. Just something to be aware of.

For a drop-in rated 6V maximum, it does give great results. I like the beam pattern with its tight, well-defined hot spot surrounded by a fairly uniform spill of sufficient brightness. Quality wise it's not a Malkoff, but is certainly not bad and better than most.

Speaking of Malkoff, their brightest 6V (M61) single-mode drop-in is rated at 450 lumens at an estimated 8,000 candela. I am patiently awaiting for something in the 1,000 lumen/20,000+ candela range but I suspect I'm in for a long wait.

In the meantime this Lego brings plenty of value in a robust host with the perfect UI for defensive use. I even set up an old Z2 Combat Light with one and think it's awesome for those who use the Rogers-Surefire technique. Interestingly, it outperforms (in candela) the two combat lights currently available from Surefire;

https://i.ibb.co/Kb79rQN/z2-1.jpg

[GyroF-16]

FWIW - donor 6Ps are one “sale” for $44 here:
https://tacticalsportsgear.com/collections/clearance-up-to-75-off/products/surefire-6p-bk-flashlight

Free shipping. Not the smokin’ $34 deal of a couple months ago, but not too bad, methinks.

[10mmfanboy]

Has anyone tried a Malkoff device for a incandescent Maglite yet? For the life of me I couldn't figure out why they are still making them, but I kind of dig the idea of a huge thrower. Something tells me the focus and throw on one of those would be spectacular.

I had a theory I'd like to test out, sad thing is I don't even own a incandescent flashlight anymore to try to test my theory. I noticed that when it's rainy and foggy and gloomy out that my led flame throwers don't do very well at all. It seems like all the moisture in the air makes the bright led light bounce off the rain and reflect all weird. Almost like it is lighting up the rain and nothing else. I am wondering if a low lumen incandescent light flashlight wouldn't work better in those kinds of situations?

[joshs]

While they don't have quite the same build quality as Malkoff, the single mode dropins from Nailbender/Customlites are still well-built and include potted electronics. If you want very good output in a P60, his XPL domeless dropin is great: https://www.customlites.com/product.sc?productId=162&categoryId=1

[GyroF-16]

Has anyone tried a Malkoff device for a incandescent Maglite yet? For the life of me I couldn't figure out why they are still making them, but I kind of dig the idea of a huge thrower. Something tells me the focus and throw on one of those would be spectacular.

I had a theory I'd like to test out, sad thing is I don't even own a incandescent flashlight anymore to try to test my theory. I noticed that when it's rainy and foggy and gloomy out that my led flame throwers don't do very well at all. It seems like all the moisture in the air makes the bright led light bounce off the rain and reflect all weird. Almost like it is lighting up the rain and nothing else. I am wondering if a low lumen incandescent light flashlight wouldn't work better in those kinds of situations?

I have one. For me, the appeal was something like 30 hrs from a 3xD-cell Maglite. Seems like it would be great for extended periods without electricity. I remember being quite satisfied with the output (though I think “spectacular” would have memorable, so not that good) but that was more than a year ago, and it’s just been ready underneath the nightstand ever since.

I’ll try to remember to bring it when I take the dog out tonight and report back.

[10mmfanboy]

I have one. For me, the appeal was something like 30 hrs from a 3xD-cell Maglite. Seems like it would be great for extended periods without electricity. I remember being quite satisfied with the output (though I think “spectacular” would have memorable, so not that good) but that was more than a year ago, and it’s just been ready underneath the nightstand ever since.

I’ll try to remember to bring it when I take the dog out tonight and report back.
Thank you, I appreciate it! That is exactly the use I was thinking of too. I really like how long of a charge they get as well.

[GyroF-16]

I have one. For me, the appeal was something like 30 hrs from a 3xD-cell Maglite. Seems like it would be great for extended periods without electricity. I remember being quite satisfied with the output (though I think “spectacular” would have memorable, so not that good) but that was more than a year ago, and it’s just been ready underneath the nightstand ever since.

I’ll try to remember to bring it when I take the dog out tonight and report back.

Okay, I got it out the other night. It’s a 4 x D cell Maglite with the Malkof conversion. Also took out the 6P LEGO and an SF Fury.
Bottom line, both of the smaller lights were notably better.
I focused the Maglite so there was no “dark spot” in the middle of the hotspot. So configured, it was decent out to about 50 yds, but really lacked the throw and the intensity of the other lights. The Maglite had nice spill, but no better than the others.
Indoors, in a dark house it’s about as good as the other two.

I’d say the big advantages of the Maglite w/ the LED upgrade is the crazy-long runtime, and commonly available D cells. Tertiary advantage being its alternate use as a bludgeon if required.
I’m still glad I have it, but it’s not going to replace other lights when I want “all the lumens.”

[Wyoming Shooter]

Gentlemen - This thread compelled me to dig through my stash of old flashlights. I found a 6P, a 6Z and an Executive Elite E2E. Back in the day, the E2E was the sheet. I'd like to update. Any suggestions? Thanks very much.

[BobM]

Gentlemen - This thread compelled me to dig through my stash of old flashlights. I found a 6P, a 6Z and an Executive Elite E2E. Back in the day, the E2E was the sheet. I'd like to update. Any suggestions? Thanks very much.
I have an E2E also, one of these days I plan on getting a Malkoff LED for it.

[Medusa]

I got my 6P today, pursuant to a recent thread here about a good deal on them, and a malkoff m61 pursuant to this thread had arrived a few days ago. Today everything was together to assemble, and I’m impressed so far. It’s...meaty, and bright. I did run it with the og 65 incandescent at first, and already owned a Streamlight 350 against which to compare it. Thanks for sharing the knowledge, folks.

[TCB]

https://i.ibb.co/7NRqFVL/6p-4.jpg
Photo 4 - My defensive/fight-light roundup. From L - R: Malkoff Bodyguard v.2 head (https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/mdc-bodyguard-v2-head) on an unshroudled 1-CR123 body (https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/mdc-shroudless-123-body), the 6P Lego and a Malkoff MD3 (https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/md3-body-and-switch)-M91T (https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/large-malkoff-led-flashlights/products/m91t-md3) with Surefire tailcap.


Will post beam shots this evening.

What’s the skinny on that small Malkoff? Is it a single 123? What are you getting out the front of that? It looks like exactly what I want for an off duty light...I just looked at their sight and it said that head was only for a rechargeable or 2x 123s.

[NH Shooter]

What’s the skinny on that small Malkoff? Is it a single 123? What are you getting out the front of that? It looks like exactly what I want for an off duty light...I just looked at their sight and it said that head was only for a rechargeable or 2x 123s.


https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/malkoff-small-led-flashlights/products/mdc-bodyguard

[TCB]

Thanks! I just spent the last hour looking at all the different Malkoff 123 lights. I think the single output one that just puts out 250 L is what I want but am intrigued by the one you just linked...If I’m understanding it it puts out 600 L for 8 seconds then drops to 400 for a while then down to 175? Not really getting how that works in practice. Probably gonna need to find some video reviews.

[rob_s]

I had a theory I'd like to test out, sad thing is I don't even own a incandescent flashlight anymore to try to test my theory. I noticed that when it's rainy and foggy and gloomy out that my led flame throwers don't do very well at all. It seems like all the moisture in the air makes the bright led light bounce off the rain and reflect all weird. Almost like it is lighting up the rain and nothing else. I am wondering if a low lumen incandescent light flashlight wouldn't work better in those kinds of situations?

I remember seeing similar maybe a decade ago as LEDs were starting to hit the mainstream and the MOAR lumens! Craze was getting going. On training ranges full of smoke, many of those fancy high-lumen LEDs were bouncing light back while the old-busted incans were pushing through to the target. Seeing it on a range at night with ten to twenty rifles was super telling.

Maybe the tech is better now? I dunno.

[rob_s]

What I originally came here for...

What do we like for pocket clips for the old 6P, 3P, 6z... etc? I’d like to not lose then”twist for constant on” function if possible. Clip on clips? Probably not ideal but at the same time should the clip fail it’ll just eject the slight into the pocket anyway.

[javemtr]

What I originally came here for...
What do we like for pocket clips for the old 6P, 3P, 6z... etc? I’d like to not lose then”twist for constant on” function if possible. Clip on clips? Probably not ideal but at the same time should the clip fail it’ll just eject the slight into the pocket anyway.
Maybe one of the usual suspects will fit your needs:
RCS: https://rcsgear.com/surefire-p-and-g-series-pocket-clip/
Malkoff: https://malkoffdevices.com/products/pocket-clip-to-fit-md2
Prometheus: https://darksucks.com/products/surefire-titanium-clip
I only have distant memories of using a pocket clip with the standard SureFire screw-down tailcaps, and the issue is that the clips are somewhat loose when you have the tailcap unscrewed for momentary mode.

[rob_s]

Maybe one of the usual suspects will fit your needs:
RCS: https://rcsgear.com/surefire-p-and-g-series-pocket-clip/
Malkoff: https://malkoffdevices.com/products/pocket-clip-to-fit-md2
Prometheus: https://darksucks.com/products/surefire-titanium-clip
I only have distant memories of using a pocket clip with the standard SureFire screw-down tailcaps, and the issue is that the clips are somewhat loose when you have the tailcap unscrewed for momentary mode.

thanks! the wobble would probably be annoying, I agree.

that *seems* to be the intent of the o-ring, no? allowing the clip to stay somewhat stable while allowing the o-ring to get compressed if you tighten it all the way down? If not, I wonder if adding o-rings or going to more of a sleeve would accomplish that.

I read some complaints about the RCS version that it makes it impossible to do constant-on, probably because of the thicker wire clip and the o-ring.

I'm surprised nobody just makes a clip-on, or that there isn't a clip-on from another maker that would work.

[javemtr]

thanks! the wobble would probably be annoying, I agree.
that *seems* to be the intent of the o-ring, no? allowing the clip to stay somewhat stable while allowing the o-ring to get compressed if you tighten it all the way down? If not, I wonder if adding o-rings or going to more of a sleeve would accomplish that.
I read some complaints about the RCS version that it makes it impossible to do constant-on, probably because of the thicker wire clip and the o-ring.
I'm surprised nobody just makes a clip-on, or that there isn't a clip-on from another maker that would work.
Yes, the o-rings do a reasonable job of taking up the slack. I just never could get used to it. I changed all my tailcaps over to McClicky switches, and in that process decided to install Thyrm Switchbacks on my 6P lights. They are not a perfect solution either, but work well enough for me.

[Duelist]

What I originally came here for...

What do we like for pocket clips for the old 6P, 3P, 6z... etc? I’d like to not lose then”twist for constant on” function if possible. Clip on clips? Probably not ideal but at the same time should the clip fail it’ll just eject the slight into the pocket anyway.

I’m using a Thyrm on my 6P body and it works extremely well, but I lose the twist for constant on feature.

[rob_s]

Yes, the o-rings do a reasonable job of taking up the slack. I just never could get used to it. I changed all my tailcaps over to McClicky switches, and in that process decided to install Thyrm Switchbacks on my 6P lights. They are not a perfect solution either, but work well enough for me.

So this thing changes (https://darksucks.com/products/mcclicky-switch) out the factory switch to one that clicks-on but also retains the momentary option, like a more modern light, and drops in to a 6P or 3P? and then I could just add one of their TI clips (https://darksucks.com/products/surefire-titanium-clip) and crank down on the cap? Doesn't look like the clip would work on the 3P but that's ok...

[awp_101]

So this thing changes (https://darksucks.com/products/mcclicky-switch) out the factory switch to one that clicks-on but also retains the momentary option, like a more modern light, and drops in to a 6P or 3P?
Yes, I've got one on my 9P. Press for momentary and there's a slight bit of resistance just before it clicks on.

[javemtr]

Yes, functionality is as you described. Benefit is that you crank down the tailcap and still have both momentary and constant on. Some people will say that inadvertently activating constant on instead of momentary will get you killed in the streets, but I'm not tacticool enough to worry about that.

[rob_s]

Yes, functionality is as you described. Benefit is that you crank down the tailcap and still have both momentary and constant on. Some people will say that inadvertently activating constant on instead of momentary will get you killed in the streets, but I'm not tacticool enough to worry about that.

when I'm chasing around after the 5 lbs Shih Tzu puppy at 3 am in the front yard having my thumb slip off the momentary-on is way more of a concern as I'm more worried about shit-on-the-foot than killed-in-the-streets. :p

[rob_s]

After having gotten the wrong click-conversion parts for my 3P, I was hoping to just buy a ready-made part that screws right on.

Anyone know if this guy will just drop in on my Legacy (meaning one of the first ones sold) 3P?
https://lapolicegear.com/surefire-z61-tail-cap.html?sku=Z61&gclid=Cj0KCQjwv7L6BRDxARIsAGj-34oQi-Jl0HqECsIc3PtSrumd1verQg5tynCPvCk5doa8A11bnGfQ9kwa AsguEALw_wcB

[javemtr]

That's an E series switch, it's too small to fit on P series lights.

[javemtr]

The ready made part will cost ya: https://www.oveready.com/flashlight/custom-tactical-aluminum-tailcap-black/
It's cheaper to buy the proper internals: https://www.illumn.com/edcplus-mcclicky-kit-for-surefire-z41-p-c-z-g-black-switchboot.html

[NH Shooter]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Surefire-Z59-Clicky-Tailcap-for-C2-C3-D2-D3-G2-G2Z-Z2-6P-9P-Flashlights/143700266634?hash=item2175340e8a:g:DbUAAOSwFNhfRdX s